S08.E15: Don't Cry for Me Antigua

[Teri313]

12 hours ago, hoosiermommy said:

Izzy may be a pot-stirrer at times, but I think she can think on her feet, and I liked that she went to The side not to complain but to ask advice about how to handle it. If Eddie let’s her do so for now, that will raise him even higher in my esteem.

I totally agree with this. Unlike Malia from BDM, who never told Pete to stop calling her sweetheart/sweetie, she just complained about it on the confessional cam, and then whined to Capt Sandy and let her deal with it - which, I think, she handled terribly by calling the entire deck crew up and going after all of them, when Pete was the only one who called her that. And Malia referred to them as "boys" throughout the entire season. She also cried to Sandy about Hannah not letting her rearrange crew cabin sleeping assignments to accommodate her sleeping with her boyfriend/chef, and Sandy, knowing only Malia's side of the story, announces to everyone over the radio that Hannah was being overridden. So yeah, long-winded way of saying I thought it was mature of Izzy to ask for guidance on how to handle it. It showed that she is interested in being an effective leader and not just whining to Eddie and getting them into trouble.

5 hours ago, dleighg said:

When Lee asked Elizabeth to clean up the kitchen, her response really irked me -- "Absolutely" with no hint that she understood that she was already in the doghouse for it being that way to begin with. 

But consider how Capt. Lee asked her to do it. A lot of the time he is very passive/aggressive when it comes to bitching into the confessional cam vs. interacting face to face, especially with women. He was clearly put off by the state of the galley, and on the confessional cam starts bitching about her not knowing her job or being able to deliver, then when he "confronts" her, he says in a nice cheerful tone, "Hey, Elizabeth, could you do me a favor and knock out those pots so she has a clean galley when she gets back?" So she responded in kind, like, "oh yeah, sure, no problem." I do think that she's an airhead and sucks at her job, but I think it's clear that she doesn't see it and Lee asking that way doesn't help her understand it any better. 

5 hours ago, 65mickey said:

I thought it was interesting that the Captain turned to Francesca and told her to make the decision about Elizabeth. I don't believe that he has ever let the chief stew or the bosun to do the firing. He always handles this. 

I don't think he really wanted to fire her, and I think Francesca's constant complaining about her has been an annoyance to him, so he was like, fine, you do it. I also noticed that Francesca seemed to get a little flustered and didn't handle it very confidently or professionally, so maybe it was a surprise to her as well.

5 hours ago, oakville said:

It would have been irresponsible for Ash to let the boy use the hot tub in a drunken state.

She should have let him use the hot tub and tell James to go sit with him. All of the yachties on Galley Talk (is that what it's called?) across the board were shocked that she shut him down and said she was completely wrong. And I agree. She kept defending herself by saying they were completely out of control and tried getting into the tender, but from what I saw, that just wasn't true. They were drunk, yeah, but they were respectful when she told them they couldn't be on the swim platform and they stopped drinking when she cut them off, even though they weren't happy about it. But they didn't make a scene. Then that one kid just wanted to sit in the hot tub, but she wanted to go to bed, so she lied to him. Like him or hate him, he is the guest and he wasn't asking for much. I've seen way more out-of-control drunk-out-of-their-mind guests on this show. This kid was not that. And he was of age, so there is that too.

2 hours ago, aqusdealer said:

I just wanted to put my .02 in on the Mahi ordering debacle. I didn’t totally get it at first, so I did a screen capture of the notepad entry that Francesca did.  After looking at the ticket for a bit, I definitely think the blame falls on Rachel. Even though it would have been nice to have each patrons order on their own line, I don’t feel it should have been an issue. Francesca clearly placed a + sigh between the two names. To me, that screams one Mahi each. I feel that Rachel misinterpreted the ticket and is trying to shift the blame to Francesca. 

I could see how Rachel could have interpreted that line as those two people were going to split an order - X + Y are going to have a Z. The fact that Francesca wasn't consistent in how she wrote the order was the problem, IMO. If Rachel was confused, she should have asked for clarification, but maybe this is how she saw it and didn't feel confused.

[chenoa333]

2 hours ago, Mr. Miner said:

I'm not really interested in eating anything that is referred to as a "cooter".

It was Rachel the chef who started saying "eat my ______". NOT me!

But let's not forget there's a very successful chain of sports bar/restaurants called Hooters. A distant cousin of Cooters.

I find Francesca a bit dull as far as the way she presents herself to guests. She's polite, pleasant and smiles but it just doesn't come off as genuine.

 

[psychoticstate]

8 hours ago, Milan said:

I think Francesca is a horrible chief stew. Over the seasons I have seen MUCH WORSE stewardesses then Elizabeth, and they were not fired.

Elizabeth is not perfect, but she is nice and polite and NOT lazy. She slept in the guest cabin....big deal. Others have done so as well and were not fired.

This is the first time I do not agree with Cpt Lee. Instead of firing a nice person,he should have given more direction to Francesca who obviously is a bad leader.

I agree with you 100%.  I think Francesca is a shitty chief stew.  She hasn't liked Elizabeth since day one and has been out to fire her ever since.  Other than the mustard gas situation, which I have seen posted wasn't really mustard gas, Elizabeth hasn't done anything truly egregious.  I have seen crew members in past seasons who have been drinking while on charter, swimming off the yacht without permission while on charter, been drunk from the night before while on charter, slept in the guest cabin, banged it out in the laundry room (looking at you, Eddie), among a variety of other things without being fired.  With only two charters left, it seems very short-sighted and frankly stupid to fire a stew who can at least do laundry and smile in front of the guests.   I think Capt. Lee was so tired of Francesca's continued moaning and bitching about Elizabeth following every charter that he simply gave in.  

It appears that COVID interrupts the season but I doubt the overly emotional Francesca and Ashling would be handling the interior flawlessly down one stew.  

I'd be willing to bet that if Elizabeth had been the stew to cut the underage drinkers off, lie about the hot tub and tell them flat out to go to bed,  Francesca would have chewed her out.   Instead, because it's Ashling, it's all fine and good.  

James is a dick.  Rob is a dick.  Izzy is a great deck hand.  

I found Ashling to be very disingenuous on the part of WWHL I watched.  She didn't think anything was wrong with her being smiley and friendly to Elizabeth's face but bitching about her behind her back with Francesca?  Whatever.  

As much as I dislike Rachel, I'd love to see her go off at Francesca because I dislike Francesca that much more.

[njbchlover]

3 hours ago, aghst said:

They talk about the coronavirus but don’t seem too impacted by it.  One more charter left and they say no cases on the islands.

Turns out there were signs of the virus as far back as fall 2019 in different places so they can’t say nobody on the island has it.  Or that someone coming from NY or Europe could have it.

But it seems they mostly miss the impact like travel restrictions to guests and crew, no matter how much they’ve teased it all season.

I understand both sides of this.  Around this time, my husband and I were starting to get concerned, but most of the U.S. was still open and case numbers were low, although they were climbing.  We were in NYC for the weekend of 3/7 - 3/9/2020, and it was a wakeup call to see so many normally crowded streets and stores empty (I joked that you could throw a bowling ball down Fifth Avenue and not hit anything).  Theatres were still open as were all the restaurants, although foot traffic everywhere was next to nothing.  Right after that, things began closing down.

We actually had plans to travel to Florida for a ten day vacation and visit to family/friends which was scheduled for 3/14.  We didn't cancel that until 3/11/20 - more due to my husband having to work in order to set up work from home capabilities for his company's employees.  At that time, we were getting so much conflicting information, it was hard to figure out what was the right thing to do.

After 3/14/20, theatres, bars and restaurants all closed in NY/NJ.  So, the timeframe of these last couple of charters falls into place with what was happening in the U.S. at the time.  

Other countries had already begun with lockdowns, etc. (Italy, France, etc.), but the Caribbean Islands were still open for travel.  At the time, it was believed that the virus didn't do well in the hot, humid weather.  

How much we have all learned since then.

[Jobiska]

15 hours ago, njbchlover said:

This crew just doesn't seem to be working well together - we're not seeing a lot of friendships here

What, you don't bond with your new BFF via breath-holding contests like James and Rob?  Oh wait, maybe you did when you were 10?  Ah well, we can't all be precocious!  

[dleighg]

2 minutes ago, Jobiska said:

What, you don't bond with your new BFF via breath-holding contests like James and Rob?  Oh wait, maybe you did when you were 10?

and they clearly relished the fact that they were "unable" to answer Izzy's call because of their game.

[Mr. Miner]

2 minutes ago, dleighg said:

and they clearly relished the fact that they were "unable" to answer Izzy's call because of their game.

That's because she's lead chamois, not lead deck hand. Rob turned into a dick huh?

[Teri313]

28 minutes ago, Mr. Miner said:

That's because she's lead chamois, not lead deck hand. Rob turned into a dick huh?

I'm so disappointed in him. I kind of liked his schtick, and this turn in personality doesn't make sense to me.

[Real Housewife LI]

6 hours ago, aghst said:

They talk about the coronavirus but don’t seem too impacted by it.  One more charter left and they say no cases on the islands.

Turns out there were signs of the virus as far back as fall 2019 in different places so they can’t say nobody on the island has it.  Or that someone coming from NY or Europe could have it.

But it seems they mostly miss the impact like travel restrictions to guests and crew, no matter how much they’ve teased it all season.

In hindsight now we can say there were cases in fall 2019...but here in the US it didn’t even hit the news until late January early February and that was regarding cases in China. I was in Disney world until March 18. It seems like  Travel restrictionists to the Caribbean didn’t happen for quite some time after this was recorded. 

[HouseofBeck]

20 hours ago, Caseysgirl said:

Elizabeth should write a book “How to Lose a Guy in a Day” she couldn’t have been less appealing and looked more desperate if she tried. Even if James had initially been into her & MAYBE would have lasted the whole season, this kind of talk would send even the least commitment phobic guy heading for the hills. Talk about cringeworthy -I could barely watch it was so painful.

I’m not saying Elizabeth shouldn’t have learned something, anything by now, but I read her approach as a response to James not being up front with her and his words not matching his body language. To me, he’s leaving a line open in case there’s a chance for another hide the salami. Or he’s just one of those guys who never want to be the bad guy so will do anything including driving the girl nuts rather than speak the words he needs to and back them up with the right actions and behavior. He’s sure great at dissing her to Eddie, though!

I like Izzy more and more, though there isn’t much to pick from with this crew. 

Those sons sound like they’re too privileged to muster the energy to talk above a dissipated drawl. I wish we’d seen Ashling take the parents aside, or Francesca later relate to them, how their whiny son had become a danger to himself. (If in fact he was. Some of it did seem that Ash just wanted to go to bed.) Though it did not seem that the parents were about to rush to his defense or demand heads. Perhaps they’d heard it all before...

Newsflash to James, rich folks like that aren’t going to tip as well as you’d expect. 

 

Edited February 9, 2021 by HouseofBeck

[dleighg]

18 minutes ago, Real Housewife LI said:

In hindsight now we can say there were cases in fall 2019...but here in the US it didn’t even hit the news until late January early February and that was regarding cases in China.

I agree-- we live in the NYC metro area, and I was still going to church in early March but feeling like a meanie for not wanting to shake hands. Within about a week (in our area) all hell broke loose, church went all-online, my husband (and both kids-working on opposite coasts) was sent home to work-from-home (he still is). Hard to believe a year later and ... we're still living like this. There was a comment in this episode about somewhere (maybe Disney?) closing "for a month." 

[RoxiP]

What was Ashling to do?  Be rude to Elizabeth to her face?  At the onset Elizabeth was technically her superior. Last night on WWHL Elizabeth. Just proved how really dumb she is and once again I feel like Andy is just a jerk. 

[88Keys]

9 hours ago, hisbunkie said:

There is something wrong with that woman. Very wrong.  In addition to her binge drinking she appears to be quite  aggressive while sober and in the workplace.

 

She honestly scares me.  I would hate working with her.  She seems like she would be joking with you one moment and about to cut you the next.

7 hours ago, sara1025 said:

I think what annoys me the most about Elizabeth (besides her constant insubordination) is how her mouth is always gaping open and eyes wide open every time there's a serious conversation. Like she's trying to look like she's comprehending but really she's not.

See, I think it's an act.  I've realized that she knows exactly what she is doing.  She can skate by and just be kind of sweet and dumb and still get the same tips as everyone else, so she will never do a better job or learn from her mistakes.  Which is why I disagree with those who say Fran just needs to train or "motivate" her better.  Elizabeth's little smirks give it away.  She's playing a part.

6 hours ago, chenoa333 said:

It was Rachel the chef who started saying "eat my ______". NOT me!

But let's not forget there's a very successful chain of sports bar/restaurants called Hooters. A distant cousin of Cooters.

 

"Hooters" is a slang term for breasts.  I don't think the restaurant has anything to do with "cooters."  (Ugh, I hate that word)

 

Did anyone else almost have to change the channel during the James and Elizabeth stuff?  The second-hand embarrassment I felt was really bad.  James is a jerk, but Elizabeth seems too old to be this naive and clingy.

[Jack Sampson]

7 hours ago, sara1025 said:

Also, Daniel is such a spoiled brat/asshole. Besides all of his other antics and complaining, telling his father to fire a flight attendant because she's too old and replace her with Elizabeth? Someone needs to smack (or punch) him!

Imagine being that flight attendant.  Now you've been called old on TV and you know Daniel doesn't want you around.  That's such a dick move.  I actually agreed with him about the hot tub, though. 

[IntrovertRed]

14 hours ago, esco1822 said:

Elizabeth wasn’t fired for using the guest cabin, it was just the final nail in her coffin. She had a series of screw-ups all season and that one tipped the scale. Captain Lee specifically said that was James’s first screw up of the entire season. Not the case with Elizabeth. Also James was told if he screws up again, he’s gone. It has nothing to do with the leadership, it has everything to do with Elizabeth and James’s work ethic. As much as I dislike him, he gets his job done and seemingly well. It’s the 8th charter and Elizabeth still has no clue what she’s doing. It was time for her to go.

BINGO!!!  How many times did Elizabeth have to be asked to do something or to stop talking to James and do her job.  She was basically fitting her job in around her bullshit with James and not the other way around.  She has zero work ethic.  Just being nice doesn't mean being a shitty stew should be excused.  Is the bar really that low?  I have to do my job and no matter how nice someone may think I am, if I don't do my job correctly or require being micromanaged, my job would be in real danger.  She's used to acting cute and innocent to get away with shit, but it's not working now no matter how hard she tries.  Welcome to the adult word, Elizabeth!!!

12 hours ago, aqusdealer said:

I just wanted to put my .02 in on the Mahi ordering debacle. I didn’t totally get it at first, so I did a screen capture of the notepad entry that Francesca did.  After looking at the ticket for a bit, I definitely think the blame falls on Rachel. Even though it would have been nice to have each patrons order on their own line, I don’t feel it should have been an issue. Francesca clearly placed a + sigh between the two names. To me, that screams one Mahi each. I feel that Rachel misinterpreted the ticket and is trying to shift the blame to Francesca. 

Exactly!  And instead of Rachel asking if she could write her notes differently, she passive-aggressively goes nuts with her comments and muttering under her breath.  Maybe Francesca is afraid of her and doesn't want to set Rachel off (although she did show her the note), which is understandable, but I also think Rachel is projecting any and all issues on Francesca. 

Edited February 10, 2021 by KLJ

[nokat]

2 hours ago, 88Keys said:

See, I think it's an act.  I've realized that she knows exactly what she is doing.  She can skate by and just be kind of sweet and dumb and still get the same tips as everyone else, so she will never do a better job or learn from her mistakes.  Which is why I disagree with those who say Fran just needs to train or "motivate" her better.  Elizabeth's little smirks give it away.  She's playing a part.

Yes, it's a gas lighting act. I notice that a lot of men fall for it and defend her. Oh, she's so cute and doe eyed. Barf.  If you're the one having to double your work load while she acts coy and bats her eye lashes while she lies to you, you wouldn't defend her. You can't motivate someone like that, and saying Francesca is a bad manager pisses me off. People say, oh, Elizabeth isn't perfect, but she's nice. Baloney, she isn't nice. But then people rip into Francesca for not being perfect.

Rachel gets along with Elizabeth because she doesn't rely on her for anything. She gets to blame Francesca for everything, even her own screw ups. I feel like her tune would change if she had liz as her chief stew. lol, wouldn't that be fun.

[endure]

17 hours ago, dleighg said:

All I could think when Jackie woke up to find an empty boat--  was "I would sure want SOMEONE to immediately be offering me a coffee"

Entitled brats indeed. Those kids need to pay for their own vacations if this is the way they're going to act.

When Lee asked Elizabeth to clean up the kitchen, her response really irked me -- "Absolutely" with no hint that she understood that she was already in the doghouse for it being that way to begin with. 

Exactly,  Elizabeth  is so exasperating, because she is so clueless she just takes no initiative ever and ends up annoying everyone she works with.  I notice her trying to ally with the chef now much like she did with Izzy earlier.  I do wonder what she did for employment before this.

Jackies breasts are ridiculous.

[endure]

2 hours ago, nokat said:

Yes, it's a gas lighting act. I notice that a lot of men fall for it and defend her. Oh, she's so cute and doe eyed. Barf.  If you're the one having to double your work load while she acts coy and bats her eye lashes while she lies to you, you wouldn't defend her. You can't motivate someone like that, and saying Francesca is a bad manager pisses me off. People say, oh, Elizabeth isn't perfect, but she's nice. Baloney, she isn't nice. But then people rip into Francesca for not being perfect.

Rachel gets along with Elizabeth because she doesn't rely on her for anything. She gets to blame Francesca for everything, even her own screw ups. I feel like her tune would change if she had liz as her chief stew. lol, wouldn't that be fun.

The only thing Rachel and Elizabeth have in common  is a dislike for Francesca.  You are so right that Rachel would be going insane if she had to work with Elizabeth as the chief of stew, she would be locking her in the freezer or tossing her overboard haha. I still think Elizabeth is clueless but also very manipulative.....and far too self centered to be a team player.  I have no issue with Francesca at this point. 

[aqusdealer]

5 hours ago, Jack Sampson said:

Imagine being that flight attendant.  Now you've been called old on TV and you know Daniel doesn't want you around.  That's such a dick move.

My thoughts exactly as it was said. I imagined an aging, hard working flight attendant that really needs her job and puts up with a lot of extra BS from this spoiled brat. Then she has to see this on TV. It’s disheartening and embarrassing. I know it will never happen though as Elizabeth is too unfocused to graduate flight attendant training. Honestly she’d probably get someone hurt.

[Milan]

19 hours ago, esco1822 said:

Elizabeth wasn’t fired for using the guest cabin, it was just the final nail in her coffin. She had a series of screw-ups all season and that one tipped the scale.

A series of screw ups? Come on now?

Her only screw up is the fact that Francesca hates her and is bullying her each and every day by talking down on her,

What were the screw ups? Bringing not enough champagne to the beach party? That is why there is a speed boat stand by, to get some more right? She left some party light up one time, big deal.......

Those are all minor things , and not material for firing somebody. If Francesca had only 10% of the people skills that Eddie has, there would not have been a problem at all. I have never seen Elizabeth cursing or being rude like that "eat my cooter and go f..k yourself" monster in the kitchen that calls herself a cook. She works and puts in more hours then ass kisser Ashling (who is a boring person) and aways with a smile. The guest love her. 

That is not worth firing her.

If Francesca was a male behaving like this to Elizabeth, it would be all over the feminist news that Elizabeth was harrassed blahblahblah, but now it is ok?

If I were in Elizabeth shoes I would told that false bitch a long time ago to change her behaviour (in a rude way).   I can not understand how she kept her cool all the time?

In all of the seasons I have NEVER seen this much personal hate from a chief stew towards a stewardess.

 

[Milan]

5 hours ago, nokat said:

I notice that a lot of men fall for it and defend her. Oh, she's so cute and doe eyed. Barf.  If you're the one having to double your work load while she acts coy and bats her eye lashes while she lies to you, you wouldn't defend her. You can't motivate someone like that, and saying Francesca is a bad manager pisses me off. People say, oh, Elizabeth isn't perfect, but she's nice. Baloney, she isn't nice. But then people rip into Francesca for not being perfect.

If I was a multimillionaire renting a yacht I would like to be served by people like Elizabeth for sure. Because SHE IS NICE and relaxed!

Francesca, on the other hand has a false attitude. I do not like her appearance not even when she says good morning. Francesca is lucky for being female, because she would have been accused for harassment if she were a male.

[Milan]

13 hours ago, psychoticstate said:

I agree with you 100%.  I think Francesca is a shitty chief stew.  She hasn't liked Elizabeth since day one and has been out to fire her ever since.  Other than the mustard gas situation, which I have seen posted wasn't really mustard gas, Elizabeth hasn't done anything truly egregious.  I have seen crew members in past seasons who have been drinking while on charter, swimming off the yacht without permission while on charter, been drunk from the night before while on charter, slept in the guest cabin, banged it out in the laundry room (looking at you, Eddie), among a variety of other things without being fired.  With only two charters left, it seems very short-sighted and frankly stupid to fire a stew who can at least do laundry and smile in front of the guests.   I think Capt. Lee was so tired of Francesca's continued moaning and bitching about Elizabeth following every charter that he simply gave in.  

Exactly, she kept going to cpt Lee who made his first mistake by firing that sweet girl ,purely and only because that false horrible person was moaning to the captain each and every day.

Fired her for what?

[Milan]

14 hours ago, Teri313 said:

But consider how Capt. Lee asked her to do it. A lot of the time he is very passive/aggressive when it comes to bitching into the confessional cam vs. interacting face to face, especially with women. He was clearly put off by the state of the galley, and on the confessional cam starts bitching about her not knowing her job or being able to deliver, then when he "confronts" her, he says in a nice cheerful tone, "Hey, Elizabeth, could you do me a favor and knock out those pots so she has a clean galley when she gets back?" So she responded in kind, like, "oh yeah, sure, no problem." I do think that she's an airhead and sucks at her job, but I think it's clear that she doesn't see it and Lee asking that way doesn't help her understand it any better. 

On the yacht there are 6 guests and 3 stewardesses and 4 deck hands and a cook. so everything dirty is Elizabeths fault? Where is Francesca? Francesca was probably crying in her cabin or moaning and snitching on Elizabeth on the Bridge....

How many pots can a cook use to be needing a stew to clean up? Rachel can lift her unorganised lazy arse too and clean a platter behind her , right?

[nokat]

2 hours ago, Milan said:

If I was a multimillionaire renting a yacht I would like to be served by people like Elizabeth for sure. Because SHE IS NICE and relaxed!

Whatever floats your boat. I prefer efficiency and not having to ask twenty times for service.

[65mickey]

If this were a real job and not a reality TV job things most likely would be handled differently. I really don't think that Francesca was fair to Elizabeth. All I ever heard her say to Elizabeth is that she needs  to step it up whatever that is supposed to mean and in the end stop talking to James. She could have and maybe she did and we didn't see it, taken Elizabeth aside and given her a written timeline for what and when to do things, like cabins, laundry, galley duty etc. and when to take a break. Show her how to set the table for breakfast or dinner to Francesca's satisfaction. Elizabeth reacts to a specific instructions  like Lee's request to her to clean the galley. It seemed to me that when Elizabeth was working cabins or laundry Francesca told her to stop and do something else. Francesca tells Elizabeth to take a break and Elizabeth says no I don't need one now. Francesca says well take one if you feel that you need to. So then we see Elizabeth on a break and Francesca loses it because Elizabeth didn't come to her and tell her that she was going on a break when she was just told to take one. I don't think there was anything that she could have done to please Francesca who disliked her and wanted Lee to fire her for weeks. I think it was telling that Lee made Francesca do the firing when he has never done that before.  However I do believe that managing someone like Elizabeth must be frustrating and that she needs a lot more supervision that most stews. And Francesca is probably a great chief stew in real life but she is not cut out for reality TV. They couldn't have found a duller person to fill this role if they tried. 

[nokat]

3 minutes ago, 65mickey said:

If this were a real job and not a reality TV job things most likely would be handled differently. I really don't think that Francesca was fair to Elizabeth. All I ever heard her say to Elizabeth is that she needs  to step it up whatever that is supposed to mean and in the end stop talking to James. She could have and maybe she did and we didn't see it, taken Elizabeth aside and given her a written timeline for what and when to do things, like cabins, laundry, galley duty etc. and when to take a break. Show her how to set the table for breakfast or dinner to Francesca's satisfaction. Elizabeth reacts to a specific instructions  like Lee's request to her to clean the galley. It seemed to me that when Elizabeth was working cabins or laundry Francesca told her to stop and do something else. Francesca tells Elizabeth to take a break and Elizabeth says no I don't need one now. Francesca says well take one if you feel that you need to. So then we see Elizabeth on a break and Francesca loses it because Elizabeth didn't come to her and tell her that she was going on a break when she was just told to take one. I don't think there was anything that she could have done to please Francesca who disliked her and wanted Lee to fire her for weeks. I think it was telling that Lee made Francesca do the firing when he has never done that before.  However I do believe that managing someone like Elizabeth must be frustrating and that she needs a lot more supervision that most stews. And Francesca is probably a great chief stew in real life but she is not cut out for reality TV. They couldn't have found a duller person to fill this role if they tried. 

I have to disagree strongly about Francesca being "fair" to Elizabeth. She was supposed to have a lot of experience, which obviously was bullsh*t. We also have editing so who knows how much extra work was taken getting Elizabeth to half-ass her job. Production has a lot to do with getting complete wastes of space on the yacht. I found the focus on her and James a complete snooze fest, as I found them both unlikable.

I agree about the timeline and expectations and I'd probably handle things differently because I've learned that some people don't have initiative and need to be told how and when to do everything. I'd have a little more patience in a different environment, but in the yachting business you should be able to hit the ground running. The chief stew needs at least a day to explain how she or he needs things to be done, and when they should be done. 

I'd still watch the show even without the fake drama, because I like to watch how rich people live.

[Teri313]

14 hours ago, Jack Sampson said:

Imagine being that flight attendant.  Now you've been called old on TV and you know Daniel doesn't want you around.  That's such a dick move.  I actually agreed with him about the hot tub, though. 

I know, right? And she's probably like 32.

7 hours ago, Milan said:

If I were in Elizabeth shoes I would told that false bitch a long time ago to change her behaviour (in a rude way).   I can not understand how she kept her cool all the time?

 

7 hours ago, Milan said:

On the yacht there are 6 guests and 3 stewardesses and 4 deck hands and a cook. so everything dirty is Elizabeths fault? Where is Francesca? Francesca was probably crying in her cabin or moaning and snitching on Elizabeth on the Bridge....

How many pots can a cook use to be needing a stew to clean up? Rachel can lift her unorganised lazy arse too and clean a platter behind her , right?

Francesca, Rachel, and Ashling (as well as Izzy and Rob) were with the guests at the time on the stingray excursion, there to make them lunch. Elizabeth was left behind to clean, and even managed to get some downtime in on the slide, so I don't think she was being taxed. And you can call Rachel a lot of things, but I don't think I'd call her lazy. The weight of that galley is on her and I think she does a pretty good job.

3 hours ago, 65mickey said:

If this were a real job and not a reality TV job things most likely would be handled differently. I really don't think that Francesca was fair to Elizabeth. All I ever heard her say to Elizabeth is that she needs  to step it up whatever that is supposed to mean and in the end stop talking to James. She could have and maybe she did and we didn't see it, taken Elizabeth aside and given her a written timeline for what and when to do things, like cabins, laundry, galley duty etc. and when to take a break. Show her how to set the table for breakfast or dinner to Francesca's satisfaction. Elizabeth reacts to a specific instructions  like Lee's request to her to clean the galley. It seemed to me that when Elizabeth was working cabins or laundry Francesca told her to stop and do something else. Francesca tells Elizabeth to take a break and Elizabeth says no I don't need one now. Francesca says well take one if you feel that you need to. So then we see Elizabeth on a break and Francesca loses it because Elizabeth didn't come to her and tell her that she was going on a break when she was just told to take one. I don't think there was anything that she could have done to please Francesca who disliked her and wanted Lee to fire her for weeks. I think it was telling that Lee made Francesca do the firing when he has never done that before.  However I do believe that managing someone like Elizabeth must be frustrating and that she needs a lot more supervision that most stews. And Francesca is probably a great chief stew in real life but she is not cut out for reality TV. They couldn't have found a duller person to fill this role if they tried. 

I agree that Francesca is a terrible boss and has pretty much had it in for Elizabeth since the beginning, but Elizabeth supposedly had four years of experience. I would assume that in order to survive in this industry for that long, she wouldn't need that much guidance. She should know which silverware to use in a breakfast setting and have a general sense of knowing what to do and how to do it without having to be told. She seems to get distracted and off track really easily. I just wonder how much of this was real and how much she was playing a character. She does have some sort of acting career as well, so there's that ... 

Edited February 10, 2021 by Teri313

[nokat]

14 minutes ago, Teri313 said:

And you can call Rachel a lot of things, but I don't think I'd call her lazy.

She likes to be organized and is anything but lazy. She's a bit crazy but her food looks amazing.

[Baltimore Betty]

3 minutes ago, nokat said:

She likes to be organized and is anything but lazy. She's a bit crazy but her food looks amazing.

It worries me that Rachel could be a bunny boiler and that it would be garnished beautifully with a fantastic sauce.

[RoxiP]

9 hours ago, Milan said:

A series of screw ups? Come on now?

Her only screw up is the fact that Francesca hates her and is bullying her each and every day by talking down on her,

What were the screw ups? Bringing not enough champagne to the beach party? That is why there is a speed boat stand by, to get some more right? She left some party light up one time, big deal.......

Those are all minor things , and not material for firing somebody. If Francesca had only 10% of the people skills that Eddie has, there would not have been a problem at all. I have never seen Elizabeth cursing or being rude like that "eat my cooter and go f..k yourself" monster in the kitchen that calls herself a cook. She works and puts in more hours then ass kisser Ashling (who is a boring person) and aways with a smile. The guest love her. 

That is not worth firing her.

If Francesca was a male behaving like this to Elizabeth, it would be all over the feminist news that Elizabeth was harrassed blahblahblah, but now it is ok?

If I were in Elizabeth shoes I would told that false bitch a long time ago to change her behaviour (in a rude way).   I can not understand how she kept her cool all the time?

In all of the seasons I have NEVER seen this much personal hate from a chief stew towards a stewardess.

 

Making mustard gas?  Being asked repeatedly to do the laundry?  Hanging out with the deck crew instead of waiting on the guests?  Causing more work for others by not relaying instructions correctly?  Violating what appears to be a firm policy (sleeping in a guest cabin - okay, maybe there was no sleep involved but... Without permission).  Not taking meals to the captain? Maybe most of these were minor but when a pattern has repeatedly occurred they go beyond minor. Ashling worked through major stomach issues while Elizabeth stayed in bed. 

 

Funny thing is, I recently was let go from a job for a series of relatively minor mistakes, but I am self aware enough to know that it was my responsibility to try harder and knew that I was probably going to be let go. The truth is that once your supervisor has lost confidence in you you are going to be scrutinized more closely and it is really hard to regain their trust once you've lost it.

Edited February 10, 2021 by RoxiP

[nokat]

1 hour ago, RoxiP said:

Funny thing is, I recently was let go from a job for a series of relatively minor mistakes, but I am self aware enough to know that it was my responsibility to try harder and knew that I was probably going to be let go. The truth is that once your supervisor has lost confidence in you you are going to be scrutinized more closely and it is really hard to regain their trust once you've lost it.

If it's a pattern, I can see why you got let go, but you seem to have learned from it so I'd give you a chance.

I gave my notice after someone higher in the hierarchy was almost like Siegal with the "I wonder what poor people are doing." I got hired back at a much higher pay when they realized who was doing the work. Sometimes you need to leave for people to realize your worth.

[lcarolynl]

4 hours ago, RoxiP said:

Making mustard gas?  Being asked repeatedly to do the laundry?  Hanging out with the deck crew instead of waiting on the guests?  Causing more work for others by not relaying instructions correctly?  Violating what appears to be a firm policy (sleeping in a guest cabin - okay, maybe there was no sleep involved but... Without permission).  Not taking meals to the captain? Maybe most of these were minor but when a pattern has repeatedly occurred they go beyond minor. Ashling worked through major stomach issues while Elizabeth stayed in bed. 

 

Funny thing is, I recently was let go from a job for a series of relatively minor mistakes, but I am self aware enough to know that it was my responsibility to try harder and knew that I was probably going to be let go. The truth is that once your supervisor has lost confidence in you you are going to be scrutinized more closely and it is really hard to regain their trust once you've lost it.

Yes, she makes mistakes, minor and major, in Every.Single.Episode

One episode opened with Rob putting away the vacuum cleaner Elizabeth left out the night before and no one has spoken about that.  Remember when she left the evening’s decorations up for the morning crew to handle? This episode showed Ashling busting her ass serving the guests while Elizabeth relaxed and hung out with James while he ate.
She doesn’t know to set the dinner table with both red and white wine glasses and we don’t serve salad with breakfast.

She forgot champagne and then margaritas for two beach picnics. To brush that off by saying the deck crew can cover for her (one beach picnic required THREE tender deliveries) is disrespectful to the deck crew and makes interior look incompetent.  

She doesn’t see the work that needs to be done (as a long term BD fan I know laundry needs to be running all the time, and by that I mean constantly, never ending)

Francesca has her problems but Elizabeth’s laziness and stupidity are not on Francesca.

The idea that most guests would prefer a pretty, smiling incompetent stew over an efficient stew who can get me coffee in the morning and cocktails all day long is ludicrous. Pretty girls are a dime a dozen. Realizing what some folks consider attractive may differ from another person but a stew can be both pretty and competent and I think Francesca and Ashling are both pretty and competent.

It’s a shame that being physically attractive is necessary to work a super yacht but I should think basic level competence should also be a criteria. 

 

 

 

Edited February 10, 2021 by lcarolynl
Had to add a "not" to make sense.

[Rambunctiouscurls]

I think you have all covered Elizabeth’s inefficacy much better than I could. But I wanted to add after watching her fail every episode, I realized she simply doesn’t care and is there for the cameras. Why else would she prioritize James over work each episode. Listen the service industry is tough and you have to be ten steps ahead rather than waiting for instructions, taking a break because “this is an important conversation” This would drive me absolutely bonkers and I sympathized with Francesca. You just can’t teach work ethic.

We see Elizabeth always talking and not even making a half hearted attempt to multitask. 
 

 

Edited February 10, 2021 by Rambunctiouscurls
Long winded

[Rambunctiouscurls]

43 minutes ago, Rambunctiouscurls said:

 

 

 

Edited February 10, 2021 by Rambunctiouscurls
Duplicate

[RoxiP]

1 hour ago, nokat said:

If it's a pattern, I can see why you got let go, but you seem to have learned from it so I'd give you a chance.

I gave my notice after someone higher in the hierarchy was almost like Siegal with the "I wonder what poor people are doing." I got hired back at a much higher pay when they realized who was doing the work. Sometimes you need to leave for people to realize your worth.

Never has happened before - I think the chemistry between this woman and I was off from the start and she was abusive and I got rattled...but I fully recognize that I played a huge part in that!  Quite honestly I wasn't sorry on the day the axe fell because I was frustrated and so was she.

I think Elizabeth thought it she did "just enough" she could skate by.  If I had been Ashling on WWHL when Elizabeth was talking about working for four years in the industry I would have said "And you are still this incompetent?"  I wonder who she was sleeping with on those other boats?  Obviously somebody who let her get away with more than Francesca.

I don't understand why Rachel and Francesca don't sit down together and come up with a mutually agreeable form of communication...what was the theme earlier in the season...LISTS!

[IntrovertRed]

13 hours ago, Milan said:

In all of the seasons I have NEVER seen this much personal hate from a chief stew towards a stewardess.

 

Haven't you ever watched seasons with Hannah?  She has had some major issues with her staff.

2 hours ago, lcarolynl said:

Francesca has her problems but Elizabeth’s laziness and stupidity are on Francesca.

Do you mean 'Elizabeth's laziness and stupidity are on Elizabeth"?

[lcarolynl]

1 minute ago, KLJ said:

Haven't you ever watched seasons with Hannah?  She has had some major issues with her staff.

Do you mean 'Elizabeth's laziness and stupidity are on Elizabeth"?

Yes! I edited my comment before I saw this. 

Sorry to all for my incorrect and unclear post. I've said it in almost every post, I think Francesca has some management issues that could stand improvement, and I sincerely hope she watches this season to see where she could have done better, but I don't have many nice things to say about Elizabeth. So far all we've got is she's pretty and cheerful and she's prettier and more cheerful than Francesca. That's not nearly enough for me.

[Jsage]

On 2/9/2021 at 5:14 AM, Milan said:

Because James's boss is Eddie, who is a far better leader and person then Francesca will ever be.

I loved Eddie's response to Izzy when she went to him about James and Rob. He gave her advice on what she could do to fix the situation herself, but also let her know he had her back if that didn't work. He's not only a better leader than Francesca, he's a way better leader than Malia the complainer and Sandy the micromanager!

I'm also enjoying Eddie's talking heads. He's no Kate, but he's definitely got some snark in him. 

[Rambunctiouscurls]

3 hours ago, lcarolynl said:

Yes, she makes mistakes, minor and major, in Every.Single.Episode

One episode opened with Rob putting away the vacuum cleaner Elizabeth left out the night before and no one has spoken about that.  Remember when she left the evening’s decorations up for the morning crew to handle? This episode showed Ashling busting her ass serving the guests while Elizabeth relaxed and hung out with James while he ate.
She doesn’t know to set the dinner table with both red and white wine glasses and we don’t serve salad with breakfast.

She forgot champagne and then margaritas for two beach picnics. To brush that off by saying the deck crew can cover for her (one beach picnic required THREE tender deliveries) is disrespectful to the deck crew and makes interior look incompetent.  

She doesn’t see the work that needs to be done (as a long term BD fan I know laundry needs to be running all the time, and by that I mean constantly, never ending)

Francesca has her problems but Elizabeth’s laziness and stupidity are not on Francesca.

The idea that most guests would prefer a pretty, smiling incompetent stew over an efficient stew who can get me coffee in the morning and cocktails all day long is ludicrous. Pretty girls are a dime a dozen. Realizing what some folks consider attractive may differ from another person but a stew can be both pretty and competent and I think Francesca and Ashling are both pretty and competent.

It’s a shame that being physically attractive is necessary to work a super yacht but I should think basic level competence should also be a criteria. 

 

 

 

I would HATE a server such as Elizabeth personally. Can you imagine after being used to top servers in fine dining who anticipate your needs to having one who was having relationship talk in the middle of service within earshot because and I quote “ I wasn’t on service” when Service is the name of the game. I don’t care how much you smile and have your hair down (another no no when dealing with food) and curl ironed if you are completely unprofessional. This affects the tip for all crew as well. 

Edited February 10, 2021 by Rambunctiouscurls

[Rambunctiouscurls]

Regarding Eddie: Maybe it’s my distaste that has remained since his previous season but I am not sure he is such a great boss in how he dealt with Izzy. He basically put the onus on her to deal with it and asked her to come back if persists and it has persisted. Izzy is like me in that once I talk to my sup, it’s because it has reached a level where I have tried everything. A good supervisor would have his lead deckhand’s back and state to Rob especially that insubordination will not be tolerated without making it seem as if Izzy complained. He could simply say Hey I promoted Izzy due to her initiative and to respect the hierarchy. 
 

Edited February 10, 2021 by Rambunctiouscurls

[RedHawk]

8 minutes ago, Rambunctiouscurls said:

Regarding Eddie: Maybe it’s my distaste that has remained since his previous season but I am not sure he is such a great boss in how he dealt with Izzy. He basically put the onus on her to deal with it and asked her to come back if persists and it has persisted. Izzy is like me in that once I talk to my sup, it’s because it has reached a level where I have tried everything. A good supervisor would have his lead deckhand’s back and state to Rob especially that insubordination will not be tolerated without making it seem as if Izzy complained. He could simply say Hey I promoted Izzy due to her initiative and to respect the hierarchy. 
 

I'm willing to allow that Eddie saw his terrible mistake with Rocky and was duly embarrassed enough to grow up and take responsibility for it. Then he wanted back on the show to restore his reputation if possible. For me, nah, I don't trust him, but I don't mind him being back. 

I think he was giving Izzy good advice and then the chance to assert authority over the insubordinate "boys" rather than have Eddie do it, which would have looked to the boys like she wasn't strong enough to do it herself.He made it clear he had her back if she needed him. 

[dleighg]

3 minutes ago, RedHawk said:

I think he was giving Izzy good advice and then the chance to assert authority over the insubordinate "boys" rather than have Eddie do it, which would have looked to the boys like she wasn't strong enough to do it herself.He made it clear he had her back if she needed him. 

I totally agree. She looks stronger by pushing back herself. 

[AnnieBananie]

11 minutes ago, dleighg said:

I totally agree. She looks stronger by pushing back herself. 

And verifies Eddie's good choice in choosing her to be lead deckhand. 

[Rambunctiouscurls]

32 minutes ago, RedHawk said:

I'm willing to allow that Eddie saw his terrible mistake with Rocky and was duly embarrassed enough to grow up and take responsibility for it. Then he wanted back on the show to restore his reputation if possible. For me, nah, I don't trust him, but I don't mind him being back. 

I think he was giving Izzy good advice and then the chance to assert authority over the insubordinate "boys" rather than have Eddie do it, which would have looked to the boys like she wasn't strong enough to do it herself.He made it clear he had her back if she needed him. 

Fair enough. I can totally see that. Especially as she doesn’t need any further undermining. I have to say I am so disappointed in Rob. These are exactly the microaggressions women deal with at work when people like to pretend sexism in the workplace is over. 

[Teri313]

2 hours ago, KLJ said:

Haven't you ever watched seasons with Hannah?  She has had some major issues with her staff.

Do you mean 'Elizabeth's laziness and stupidity are on Elizabeth"?

And how about Kate? There have been lots of issues between her and her stews. Remember Caroline? I think Kate is a great chief stew, and Caroline was kind of lame and whiny, but Kate treated her pretty badly, and that business at the end blasting the music at her locked door and telling everyone she has herpes - that was just beyond. I also remember the season where she was horrible to Amy, who was a great stew and really nice, cheerful, and competent with the guests, but Kate and Cat cliqued up and made Amy miserable to the point of crying. That was much worse than Francesca and Elizabeth, IMO. I also just really hate it when the chief stew picks a favorite and gossips with them about the other stew. It's not a good look, but I think they've all done it - Kate, Francesca, Hannah, Jenna. I think Adrienne is the only one that didn't cross that line. Her stews just treated her like crap.

Edited February 11, 2021 by Teri313
Fixed typo

[Rambunctiouscurls]

36 minutes ago, Teri313 said:

And how about Kate? There have been lots of issues between her and her stews. Remember Caroline? I think Kate is a great chief stew, and Caroline was kind of lame whiny, but Kate treated her pretty badly, and that business at the end blasting the music at her locked door and telling everyone she has herpes - that was beyond. I also remember the season where she was horrible to Amy, who was a great stew and really nice, cheerful, and competent with the guests, but Kate and Cat cliqued up and made Amy miserable to the point of crying. That was much worse than Francesca and Elizabeth, IMO. I also just really hate it when the chief stew picks a favorite and gossips with them about the other stew. It's not a good look, but I think they've all done it - Kate, Francesca, Hannah, Jenna. I think Adrienne is the only one that didn't cross that line. Her stews just treated her like crap.

Agreed. How about Lauren with the you better check yourself tantrum. I think we forget how Kate had issues because she could be a bigger B than her stews and could sometimes get them in line after punishing them and deliberately siding with one to create a mean girl clique. They would rather quit than deal with her a lot of times. 

[nokat]

6 hours ago, Rambunctiouscurls said:

Why else would she prioritize James over work each episode. 

It worked for her. She got way more camera time than she deserved. I suppose I'm supposed to be interested in her and James.  If I see her in real life I'll stop myself doing a throat punch.

[azprimadonna]

A few people have mentioned this, but for me the key is insubordination to your boss.  You just cannot be openly or passively aggressive to your supervisor and expect to keep your job, no matter how incompetent you think your supervisor is.  There are procedures for complaints in most jobs, whether on  Super Yacht or working at Walmart.   I was stunned that Capt. Lee didn't give Rachel a plane ticket after her outburst.  I am aware that there is a certain dynamic at play with Bravo calling the shots about hiring and firing, so maybe failure to censure the insubordination or immediate termination is not an option.

[aqusdealer]

8 hours ago, azprimadonna said:

I was stunned that Capt. Lee didn't give Rachel a plane ticket after her outburst.  I am aware that there is a certain dynamic at play with Bravo calling the shots about hiring and firing, so maybe failure to censure the insubordination or immediate termination is not an option.

Exactly, except for the running and safety of the vessel (of which Capt. Lee has complete and undisputed authority) most other situations are controlled by Bravo. With that in mind, it becomes easy to see why Lee may not have done this or that or why they may have visited here or there while on a day off. Product placement is a whole different ball of wax. It was no coincidence that there was a quick label shot of Coppola wine being served in the last episode. At least they made an attempt to make it look natural, sometimes it’s pretty blatant and heavy handed. Sopranos comes to mind.

[jumper sage]

On 2/9/2021 at 1:32 PM, Teri313 said:

The fact that Francesca wasn't consistent in how she wrote the order was the problem,

As a previous-job-as-a-waitress, exactly!