Envisioning What's Next: Speculation With Spoilers

[swanpride]

I am pretty sure that Vision isn't real. I am not so sure regarding Billy and Tommy though. Are they truly Wanda's children? That is entirely possible.

[Morrigan2575]

5 hours ago, swanpride said:

I am pretty sure that Vision isn't real. I am not so sure regarding Billy and Tommy though. Are they truly Wanda's children? That is entirely possible.

9 hours ago, paigow said:

Wanda has no power to actually reverse death. If your theory is true, then somebody else is definitely involved. More likely is that everyone (except Vision) is alive and Dr. Strange will reset time so nobody remembers anything.

Replie to Swanpride Quote

I think it's possible Wanda is powering Vision so he's real in that sense but, she applied/controlled his personality at first. To some extent she's lost control now or at least isn't forcing him now that he's aware

Reply to Paigow quote

I would argue that Vision was never alive to begin with. Not in the sense of humans or aliens (in the MCU). Vision was a sentient construct, it's possible that she or Hayward was able to repower the Android body and applied new software/programming.

To both quotes in the end I think Wanda can't bring back the dead but, Vision doesn't count as "the dead" IMO. 

My own thoughts

I've seen arguments that Pietro is the big bad (in disguise) but, I actually thought the opposite. Pietro seems like a total construct of Wanda. He's the part of her mind trying to make sense of everything. He asks her how she started it (she still doesn't know - repressed memories?). He comments on how she's being good (keeping families together, keeping children asleep so she's not messing with their minds). However, he does it in such a sarcastic way it sounds like reverse psychology to me...oh I think it's totally great that you're keeping children in coma(s) for days and, then bringing them out for the holiday special episode. 

I know people think or want there to be some big bad controlling/manipulating Wanda but, at this point, IMO it doesn't matter. Wanda is willfully and knowingly keep children in coma(s), keeping adults locked into characters against their will, the ones that seem aware of it (Herb and Agnes) are also terrified of her. Not only that but she expanded the bubble and brought more people in as her hostages.

I sympathize and empathize with Wanda and, I don't think she's evil or a villain but, IMO there's no easy out, saying some dude offered her a monkey's paw type deal doesn't apply here...she's fully willing and knowing and controlling everything. To me the master manipulator (trope) only works if Wanda wasn't aware that it was a fake reality and that once she started realizing she had to fight against it (break the Hex, fight off the townsfolk while not hurting them). At this point Vision fits that role while Wanda fits the master manipulator role.

Of course there are 3 episodes left so who know but, I don't think there's a get out of jail free card for Wanda at this point. Even if there's a Big Bad hiding in the shadows. Wanda could stop it, could free these people, instead she willfully keeps them trapped playing with them like dolls.

[OutOfTheQuestion]

Between the entire show's TV sitcom framing and the introduction of the X-Quicksilver, I wonder if the main villain is Mojo.  He'd be a pretty deep cut from the list of X-Men villains but the MCU version would naturally make some changes to his origin story.  Mojo is also the only TV-centric villain I can think of, since the likes of Dormammu or Mephisto seemingly wouldn't have Wanda's "fantasy life" patterned so directly after old television shows.

 

I thought it was also interesting that Vision's brief chat with the "real" Agnes didn't reveal anything deeper about her character.  She seems like a normal scared townsperson like everyone else in Westview.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

3 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I know people think or want there to be some big bad controlling/manipulating Wanda but, at this point, IMO it doesn't matter. Wanda is willfully and knowingly keep children in coma(s), keeping adults locked into characters against their will, the ones that seem aware of it (Herb and Agnes) are also terrified of her. Not only that but she expanded the bubble and brought more people in as her hostages.

I sympathize and empathize with Wanda and, I don't think she's evil or a villain but, IMO there's no easy out, saying some dude offered her a monkey's paw type deal doesn't apply here...she's fully willing and knowing and controlling everything. To me the master manipulator (trope) only works if Wanda wasn't aware that it was a fake reality and that once she started realizing she had to fight against it (break the Hex, fight off the townsfolk while not hurting them). At this point Vision fits that role while Wanda fits the master manipulator role.

Of course, that means Thaddeus Ross was right all along, about all of it. People with powers can't be trusted and so should be locked up until they comply with whatever controls are put in place. Or maybe just Wanda can't be trusted.

Follow your own logic. If Wanda really is behind all of this and it isn't Agnes or Pietro or even Hayward, incompetent though he is, then she was a weapon of destruction the entire time and should never have been given Steve's stamp of approval or been one of the Avengers. The death of her brother, which she was partly responsible for due to Ultron's involvement, wasn't punishment enough for her terrible blunder in mind-jacking Tony, and Tony and Bruce were completely blameless for saying, "Oh, sure, let's screw around with something we don't understand (Loki's scepter) and whoops create a murderbot." She should have been in the Raft without recourse, because she's too powerful and her powers can be used to hurt people if she gets too off-balance. Which just raises the question of why she was left to her own devices post-Endgame. Sure, Steve and Natasha are gone and Clint's likely back with his wife and kids, but there had to have been someone left to look in on her, make sure she's not getting unstable again.

IMO, the show wouldn't keep dropping clues that Wanda isn't entirely in control if she's the master manipulator here. Why doesn't she remember how Westview started? Why does Pietro not have the memories she does of their childhood? Why was he such a dick to her with "your dead husband can't die twice"? How many times has Agnes been in the right place at the right time? Why have we not seen Ralph? It seems pretty elaborate for the show to hedge so often if she's got it all under control.

[swanpride]

Especially since her husband DID die twice. The whole episode seemed to be set on needling Wanda enough that she would extend more of her power into Westview. To me she looks like someone who is ensnared in a big web but doesn't even realise it.

[Morrigan2575]

11 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Follow your own logic. If Wanda really is behind all of this and it isn't Agnes or Pietro or even Hayward, incompetent though he is, then she was a weapon of destruction the entire time and should never have been given Steve's stamp of approval or been one of the Avengers.

Actually I said it doesn't matter if she is or isn't, she's still responsible by choosing to keep them as hostages. She knows what she's doing to all of them she's admitted as much to Vision, Pietro and even Hayward.

So your answer is, it doesn't matter that she's willfully and knowingly keeping people hostage because maybe someone else started her down the path? I can't agree with that at all. She made a decision to continue mind raping people (to use a term I saw in the MCU forum).  It's one thing for her not to be aware of the damage she's doing but, she is. She knows and, doesn't care because living in this pretend world eases her pain.

Is it all supposed to be hand waved away because oh there was someone else that started it? Because that is ultimately the only out. There is no one actively pulling her strings. Vision said Wanda is the one that changes the sets and decades, she's not living in the TV world she's directing/writing/producing it.

11 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Of course, that means Thaddeus Ross was right all along, about all of it. People with powers can't be trusted and so should be locked up until they comply with whatever controls are put in place. Or maybe just Wanda can't be trusted.

i never said or implied that. I said I empathize and sympathize with Wanda, she's acting out of pain and grief and probably loneliness. That doesn't mean she gets a free pass to mess around with people's minds and lives. 

11 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Why have we not seen Ralph? It seems pretty elaborate for the show to hedge so often if she's got it all under control.

Did it ever occur to anyone that Ralph is the comedy trope of never seen spouce? He could be Norm's Vera or Niles' wife Maris?

11 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

How many times has Agnes been in the right place at the right time?

Because Wanda wants her there, Wanda is writing the script we've seen it, she edits the show and notice how they're all afraid of Wanda? Hell, just this episode Herb picked up that Wanda wasn't happy and asked if she wanted something changed.

Is it possible that there is some Big Bad hiding? Sure. However, as I said at this point IMO it doesn't matter. She's knowingly and willingly keeping up the illusion and continuing to make these people suffer. Or is it all OK that Norm hasn't seen his father? That the lady hanging the ghost was crying because she's trapped in a body she can't control? That kids are kept "asleep" for days on end?

[swanpride]

...Wanda wasn't even aware where Vision was. And if Wanda had complete control over the "script", would Pietro be able to anger her in the first place.

[Morrigan2575]

23 minutes ago, swanpride said:

...Wanda wasn't even aware where Vision was. And if Wanda had complete control over the "script", would Pietro be able to anger her in the first place.

So you're saying Wanda isn't aware that this isn't real? She truly believes that she's living in a sitcom world and has no control over the world around her?

Edited February 14, 2021 by Morrigan2575

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Is it possible that there is some Big Bad hiding? Sure. However, as I said at this point IMO it doesn't matter. She's knowingly and willingly keeping up the illusion and continuing to make these people suffer. Or is it all OK that Norm hasn't seen his father? That the lady hanging the ghost was crying because she's trapped in a body she can't control? That kids are kept "asleep" for days on end?

None of that is okay but we still don’t have confirmation to the extent of Wanda’s role. I feel like there are scenarios where it doesn’t matter if there is a big bad and there are scenarios where it does. We’re not seeing everything and not everything can be taken at face value. Some of it will be the truth and some will be deliberate misdirection. It’s just the nature of this kind of series. Personally, the more they say Wanda is responsible the less I believe it. I absolutely could be wrong on that but it’s just the direction I’m leaning. 

[calliope1975]

I keep going back and forth on if there's someone behind this, since so much of it is Wanda. So my other theory is if it is all Wanda, this amount of energy and power displayed is definitely going to put Wanda on some big bad's radar be it Mojo, Mephisto, or some other Marvel character I'm not aware of yet. 

I also can't tell if all the witch imagery with Agnes is a red herring, coincidence, or leading to something more. 

[swanpride]

I wonder if the casting of "Pietro" is a red herring to distract the audience from the obvious explanation, which is that whoever is playing the role is helping to push Wanda in a specific direction. I mean, he is basically gaslighting her into believing that she has the full control over Westview when this is obviously not the case.

[Luckylyn]

It’s possible that Wanda started out as a hostage and then gained control or was given the illusion of control. What is the purpose of the hostages when it’s a strain to control that amount of people?  Why not just have Vision, the twins, and maybe a few friends?  Why an entire town?  Wanda does not remember how this started but is aware she has control.   Why doesn’t she set at least some of those people free? It isn’t clear if she started this or not but it is clear she has a certain amount of control over it.  Is the control complete or limited because someone else is in charge?  Is Wanda a battery and someone else influencing her or did she conciously choose this?  Are the hostages batteries?  I keep thinking of the Yo Magic commerical where the shark offers something that supposed to save the kid on the island but the child ends up unable to access it and starving to death.  Did someone powerful make an offer that seemed like help but was actually causing harm?

I can’t give Wanda a pass on the hostages because she hasn’t presented a good reason to hold these people against their will.  Even if she’s a hostage herself, she has power enough to influence things and has used it only to benefit her fantasy rather than help the others trapped in the Hex.  I don’t think she’s irredeemable because I don’t know the full story yet.  When we know the whole thing she may be a villian or she may have been controlled too on a subconcious level.   I still think there’s a chance that she thinks the Hex is somehow saving the hostages like there was an attack and they were seriously injured or killed so the Hex made them survive.  It’s the best scenerio to redeem her if she’s completely in charge for me.   The real test of Wanda will be if she decides to set the hostages free and finds she can’t revealing she doesn’t have the level of control she thinks she has.  

I’m hoping we get Desperate Housewives as the next parody.   Was that show 90s or early 2000s?

[Kromm]

20 hours ago, paigow said:

Wanda has no power to actually reverse death. If your theory is true, then somebody else is definitely involved. More likely is that everyone (except Vision) is alive and Dr. Strange will reset time so nobody remembers anything.

That "alive only in the Hex" notion was one I also had, a while back.  I don't think anything has happened to invalidate it. Wanda saying what she says about death only tells us her opinion, not necessarily the reality of things. That said, that doesn't mean it's necessarily all her. "Yo Magic" suggests all kinds of possibilities though, depending on how we interpret it. 

The people at the edge of town is the most fascinating part of this puzzle.  Are they powering the central illusion, being used as fuel, or is it the reverse where they're NEEDING fuel and just not getting enough to be fully realized?  Are they living people on the verge of dying, or dead people on the verge of living? 

The absorption of the new people at the end of Episode 6 does throw a spanner in the works though. It makes any theory either way more complicated, and drives us more towards a simpler "it's just Spooky nonsense" version to explain why the others were like they were. Monica wasn't killed by simply entering the Hex, so whatever the status of the population overall, it's not a PREREQUISITE to be dead. 

Or... as per the earliest theories, Vision is Wanda's superego, a full construct built from part of her own mind. Him existing outside the Hex for 90 seconds withstanding. 

33 minutes ago, Luckylyn said:

hoping we get Desperate Housewives as the next parody.   Was that show 90s or early 2000s?

Doesn't matter which. They're only doing sitcoms. That was a so called "Dramady". 

[Chicago Redshirt]

On February 8, 2021 at 7:21 AM, Kel Varnsen said:

In the movie they say that Hela's power comes from Asgard. Sutur wanted to destroy Asgard. So it would make sense that no Asgard, no Hela powers much easier to kill her. But I suppose if Marvel and Cate Blanchett wanted to they could have a story where powerless Hela is floating around in space somewhere.

Just rewatched Ragnarok last night. They also say Thor's power comes from Asgard, and obviously his powers were not diminished by the destruction of physical Asgard. We saw physical Asgard seemingly blow up real good, and in Thor believes Hela to be dead, but then Thor has been twice fooled about Loki and I imagine alt-Loki from Endgame will find his way back to the main Endgame timeline eventually.

[Featherhat]

For me it doesn't have to be an either/or situation. Wanda's either the new villain of the MCU or she's a hapless victim. There are a lot of ways both can be true. She does have a lot of control over the people in the Hex and obviously the control to expand it and change people and that's not right. But I believe her when she looked honestly lost or confused about other things even the stuff Pietro "complimented" her on. She likes the "shangri La" she has created for herself and is determined to hold on to it at all costs which is in turn hurting other people and she will have to repent and seek forgiveness and redemption for that. But that doesn't mean something else isn't also benefitting from it or manipulating her. That doesn't mean she should get off scot free either. 

It's possible that one of the twists will be that Dick Hayward is right about Wanda (and my extension Ross is as well) and Monica, Darcy and Woo are wrong to feel some compassion for her grief and we'll get gone nutty outright villain Wanda in DSIMoM but I don't think so. 

[Sakura12]

Wanda shouldn't be given a pass. She may not know how it started or why but she knows she's holding these people against their will now. And she's continuing to do so she can live out her fantasy.

I still believe someone else is behind this and her power boost. They manipulated Wanda when she was alone and depressed on her own little island. Like the boy in the commercial. They convinced her to use her magic (Yo-magic) to fix her situation and make it better. She is just unaware of the cost of it. The more she wants it the more its taking from her. 

So Wanda is both a victim and a willing participant in this. She's desperate and finally has everything she wants. Taking it away is probably what turns her into the villain of the story. 

[swanpride]

I am not sure how aware Wanda is regarding the other people. She sounds honestly confused when Vision first talks about it. I mean, yeah, Wanda likes the fantasy, but I am not sure how aware she is about the other people...the moment she slowly got aware due to Vision, Pietro came to distract her from the thought again, and then started to convince her that she is the one holding them in the first place.

[Sakura12]

She asked fakeitro if he didn't think it was wrong what she was doing. That implies to me she knows. She just wants to think she isn't doing anything wrong to keep her fantasy going. 

[Kate47]

I'm super curious about the people on the edge of town because why are they there? Wanda could have just created a small hex containing only the main cast (maybe a mile or so) but instead she expanded it out to a point where the people at the edge are in this stasis because she can't be everywhere at once and they're not relevant to the plot. We've never seen them before and I doubt Woo and Monica have them on the ID board. Why do it, why expend that energy consciously?

Like, the kids. There weren't any and now there are loads because Vision questioned it in the last episode. Are they actually living breathing kids that were stashed somewhere, or are they just projections of children?

Edited February 16, 2021 by Kate47

[peachmangosteen]

1 hour ago, Kate47 said:

Like, the kids. There weren't any and now there are loads because Vision questioned it in the last episode. Are they actually living breathing kids that were stashed somewhere, or are they just projections of children?

Based on what Pietro said, she's been keeping the children in comas basically. However, who knows if we can trust what Pietro says.

[paigow]

3 hours ago, Kate47 said:

Why do it, why expend that energy consciously?

Too many witnesses that would keep breaching the barrier to look for friends.. so they would inevitably end up as prisoners anyway....

[arc]

There are smaller towns than Westview in America that Wanda could have picked. Though if it’s in NJ, Westview is probably surrounded by other suburban towns anyways, not (nearly) empty farmland or wilderness.

Edited February 16, 2021 by arc

[SReg]

http://motriael.com/8XDT

[Cthulhudrew]

My money is on the Shadow King from FX's Legion.

 

(Not really, but that would be so badass. I'd kill to see Navid Negabahn or Aubrey Plaza reprise their roles from that show in an MCU production. Or Dan Stevens, for that matter.)

[Sakura12]

I watched an interview with Emma Caulfield who plays Dottie and she said she had to audition for Kevin Feige. Which seems odd for a bit character. Feige having to approve her seems like Dottie is bigger then just a background player.

I've seen spec that she could be Clea, a sorceress and love interest of Dr. Strange. Since this show is supposed to tie in with Dr. Strange 2. 

Unless he personally auditioned everyone in this show. And I don't know maybe he is that much of a control freak. 

[Featherhat]

7 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I watched an interview with Emma Caulfield who plays Dottie and she said she had to audition for Kevin Feige. Which seems odd for a bit character. Feige having to approve her seems like Dottie is bigger then just a background player.

I've seen spec that she could be Clea, a sorceress and love interest of Dr. Strange. Since this show is supposed to tie in with Dr. Strange 2. 

Unless he personally auditioned everyone in this show. And I don't know maybe he is that much of a control freak. 

I know he approves some of the more minor characters in the films, although probably not the absolute day players with a couple of lines.  

I still think there's potentially more to Dottie. Her "husband" and the person she was in her first scene with (Beverly) were identified but they didn't have her making a pre talent show meeting appearance so we could cross her off (like we did with Herb after as suspicious scene in ep 3). There was something unsettling there beyond being a small town dictator in the 60s. Even if she turns out to be a red herring bit part, they wanted someone with menace and cheerfulness to keep us speculating, so I can see why Feige might have been involved. The cast is fairly small and the project both different and important to phase 4 so maybe most of them did. 

[swanpride]

Plus the show isn't exactly unimportant. The launch needed to work out from the get go, because that buys them a lot of good-will even if some of the projects which follow don't hit the mark (though I wouldn't be surprised if they all do).

[paigow]

9 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I've seen spec that she could be Clea, a sorceress and love interest of Dr. Strange.

If so, she should be using magic to escape or communicate with SWORD / Strange

[Sakura12]

I'm just going with what we've seen of Dottie so far. If that's all she is then why would Feige have to approve of her. So I just think there has to be more to her. Agnes and her were the only ones not identified. And her previous big role was as a demon that grants wishes, so they could be going meta with it. lol

[arc]

2 hours ago, swanpride said:

The launch needed to work out from the get go

Indeed, but the pre-pandemic plan was to go with the seemingly more classically MCU-superhero venture Falcon and the Winter Soldier as the first dip into Marvel Studios on TV*. WandaVision was initially slated to go second.

* shows that were some level of canon compliant with the MCU like AOS, Agent Carter, even the Netflix shows, still weren't actually from the Marvel Studios brand and didn't have Papa Feige's full involvement.

[RachelKM]

On 2/14/2021 at 3:35 PM, Luckylyn said:

I’m hoping we get Desperate Housewives as the next parody.   Was that show 90s or early 2000s?

I was just looking at some additional photos added on IMDB for Ep. 7 and it does look like it has some Desperate Housewives aesthetic. That show was definitely 2000s.  I think started in the early 2000s through 2010ish. 

[Kromm]

On 2/16/2021 at 3:31 PM, arc said:

There are smaller towns than Westview in America that Wanda could have picked. Though if it’s in NJ, Westview is probably surrounded by other suburban towns anyways, not (nearly) empty farmland or wilderness.

There are parts of NJ that are very farm-y.  It's the most densely populated state, admittedly, but it's not an impossible situation.

Realistically those parts aren't near empty between towns, but there'd definitely be spots where it could be a half mile between farmhouses on certain roads. The key is "certain roads".  It would never be that far to an actual busy road.

Believe it or not, my biggest mental debate is if Monica... 

A.) takes no codename

B.) takes Photon, clearly laid out for us by her mother

C.) Takes Spectrum, because it actually seems to fit a little better with how they illustrated her powers. 

D.) Is a backdoor to a long term plan to get Bree Larson out of the MCU, because intentionally or not she's become a hot potato with raging fanboys, Bree gets nicely paid off, and most of Captain Marvel 2 becomes a transition to Monica having that name and spot in the MCU. Note I'm mostly joking here (but not completely). That fanboy rage at Bree Larson seems stubbornly persistent. 

[Ailianna]

I'm not familiar with most of the online MCU debates, and not to draw things too ot, but what is the issue with Bree Larson? I didn't love her movie but I don't think it was her fault. I just didn't think it was that great a movie.

[Llywela]

11 minutes ago, Ailianna said:

I'm not familiar with most of the online MCU debates, and not to draw things too ot, but what is the issue with Bree Larson? I didn't love her movie but I don't think it was her fault. I just didn't think it was that great a movie.

As far as I can tell, she is quite outspokenly feminist and a section of male fandom don't seem to like that?

[Kromm]

Just now, Llywela said:

As far as I can tell, she is quite outspokenly feminist and a section of male fandom don't seem to like that?

Accurate. 

[swanpride]

The short version is: Some people need to grow up.

The long version is: There is a subset of the internet of people who make their money by being so called "Anti-SJWs". Those people are mostly grifters, but there is also a clear connection between them and more right wing ideas. Anyway, those people basically "please" their audience by raging against everything which they consider "SJW", mostly movies and TV shows. "SJW" is a code for "features a PoC or a women as main character". They make their most money when they attach themselves to a dissatisfied fandom, like the Ghostbusters or the Star Wars fandom. And since big fandoms are a juicy target for them, they raged about Captain Marvel long before the movie was even released. Some guy made over 100 vids only about Brie Larson and Captain Marvel before the release.

Let's just say that those people a really butt-hurt that Captain Marvel was such a financial success. Doesn't really play into the "get woke, go broke" mantra.

[Llywela]

1 minute ago, swanpride said:

The short version is: Some people need to grow up.

The long version is: There is a subset of the internet of people who make their money by being so called "Anti-SJWs". Those people are mostly grifters, but there is also a clear connection between them and more right wing ideas. Anyway, those people basically "please" their audience by raging against everything which they consider "SJW", mostly movies and TV shows. "SJW" is a code for "features a PoC or a women as main character". They make their most money when they attach themselves to a dissatisfied fandom, like the Ghostbusters or the Star Wars fandom. And since big fandoms are a juicy target for them, they raged about Captain Marvel long before the movie was even released. Some guy made over 100 vids only about Brie Larson and Captain Marvel before the release.

Let's just say that those people a really butt-hurt that Captain Marvel was such a financial success. Doesn't really play into the "get woke, go broke" mantra.

Thank you for the excellent summary. So to answer the speculation above, there's no way Marvel are going to remove an actress from a high profile role just to please a small but vocal bunch of misogynists on the internet. But if they did and replaced Carol Danvers with Monica Rambeau? Given that most 'Anti-SJW's' tend to be racist as well as misogynist, I'm having great fun picturing them all spontaneously combusting over getting their way about the white woman they hate, only to find a black woman in her place. 😄 

[swanpride]

And the whole contortions they would be forced to make, since "Carol Danvers isn't the REAL Captain Marvel" was one of their various angles of attack.

Anyway, back to topic, could it be that Coulson might turn up? I thought it impossible beforehand, but now that there was a second Agents of Shield reference, I am seriously considering it.

[calliope1975]

I'm sure those who hate Brie would also hate Teyonah because they are women. That's really the only excuse those trolls need. And they'd double hate her for being a woman and Black. 

[swanpride]

Btw the book in Agnes Cellar...could that be one of the books from Dr. Strange?

[Chicago Redshirt]

It seems to me that fanboys have targeted Brie Larson/Captain Marvel more than, say, ScarJo/Black Widow, Zoe Saldana/Gamora, Evangeline Lilly/Wasp, Gal Gadot/Wonder Woman, or a lot of other superheroines. 

Now that may be me not having seen criticism of the other characters, or that Capt. Marvel was the first MCU movie with a female lead, the notion that Captain Marvel had perhaps more flaws than we have come to expect from a MCU movie at this point (or perhaps the same flaws, magnified by having been there, done that), or some specific Brie Larson things that struck them as trying to hard to be "woke," 

[absnow54]

So we saw in episode 7 that Agnes was controlling “Pietro” when he first arrived, which still leaves the door open to this being a snatched X-Peter. I wonder if Vision will be able to deprogram him to get him out of Agatha’s spell so we can find out who this guy really is. 

[swanpride]

Quote

Now that may be me not having seen criticism of the other characters, or that Capt. Marvel was the first MCU movie with a female lead, the notion that Captain Marvel had perhaps more flaws than we have come to expect from a MCU movie at this point (or perhaps the same flaws, magnified by having been there, done that), or some specific Brie Larson things that struck them as trying to hard to be "woke," 

It's certainly not because of anything actually in the movie considering that the hate wave started months before it was even released. I think the reason was mostly an interview in which Feige called Captain Marvel "the strongest Superhero in the MCU so far" (he was actually talking about the difficulties to write a superman-like character, but naturally the usual outlets run with the quote without context). In addition, Brie Larson is quite outspoken regarding political matters. Thus said, the ire she gets is pure sexism considering that a lot of her co-stars aren't less outspoken...but they are male, so it is apparently okay. But her engagement allows for a lot of quotes taken out of context to tickle the ire of certain people.

I also think that the "flaws" in Captain Marvel are overstated. People basically search for those in order to have something to be angry about. I can't count how often someone ranted at me that Carol is a dangerous maniac who hurt some innocent man in order to steal his bike. Thing is, that scene isn't even in the movie, it is a deleted scene, in the movie she steals the bike after he is already gone (and frankly, Cap steals 1,3 cars on average in every movie he is the lead in, hence it is very hypocritical to complain about that). But those people are totally convinced that they can remember how outraged they were when they saw the scene on the big screen.

Anyway, for those not that familiar with Captain Marvel: Most of the dialogues Monica hears when she walks through the wall are from it. It's mainly the talk she had with her mother when she convinced her to help Carol out.

[dmeets]

Spoiler-tagging because either that bug on the wall was an Easter Egg, or a huge clue:

Spoiler

 

 

[arc]

What hasn’t yet shown up from official trailers? There’s that trippy scene where Wanda and Vision look like they’re standing up after magically limbo-ing. And there was the repeated entrances of Agnes through the front door over the decades. I’m not sure how the former shot will be used but I think the latter will be a quick montage in episode 8, the second to last episode, as the show briefly gets hijacked into “Agatha All Along”.

[swanpride]

Remember Marvel is known for having stuff in the trailer which never actually happens in the movie itself.

[shantown]

26 minutes ago, arc said:

What hasn’t yet shown up from official trailers? There’s that trippy scene where Wanda and Vision look like they’re standing up after magically limbo-ing. And there was the repeated entrances of Agnes through the front door over the decades. I’m not sure how the former shot will be used but I think the latter will be a quick montage in episode 8, the second to last episode, as the show briefly gets hijacked into “Agatha All Along”.

I remember a clip of Vision saying something like "Westview is our home, then let's protect it" - which is maybe still to come in the final faceoff between Hayward/Sword and Wanda/Vision/Jimmy/Monica/Darcy... or between Agnes/NotPietro and W/V/J/M/D?

[absnow54]

I think the only missing trailer scenes so far is Wanda still in her Claire Dunphy outfit meeting up with Vision to protect their home, and some mind stone sequence. Both are from Trailer 2. I think Trailer 1 and the mid-season trailer has already had all their scenes featured. 

[swanpride]

I just realised something...is it possible that we are covering the five stages of grief? First two episodes: Denial (Wanda being deep in their sitcom illusion), next two: Anger (Wanda lashing out at Monica and Sword), next two: Bargaining (Wanda discussion with Vision and Pietro if she is doing the right thing) and now we have reached depression.

[Kromm]

3 minutes ago, swanpride said:

I just realised something...is it possible that we are covering the five stages of grief? First two episodes: Denial (Wanda being deep in their sitcom illusion), next two: Anger (Wanda lashing out at Monica and Sword), next two: Bargaining (Wanda discussion with Vision and Pietro if she is doing the right thing) and now we have reached depression.

Very astute. I agree. 

The final episodes would be acceptance. It totally fits.