Envisioning What's Next: Speculation With Spoilers

[swanpride]

And it would also explain why the trauma adds kind of skipped Pietro and Vision dying, but addressed everything else (her parents dying, Strucker, her time with Hydra, Lagos, her time in the Raft and now the snap and her slipping into whatever this is…)

[Megras]

I'm wondering if whatever is happening is happening because in this timeline, here and now, the infinity stones no longer exist and as such this reality is no longer protected like the Ancient One told Bruce in Endgame.

Does anyone have any thoughts on the different colours associated with peoples' powers we saw in this most recent episode.

Wanda - Red

Agatha - Purple

Monica - Blue

Weird book - sort of orangey yellow

I guess Vision might still be yellow, which leaves green so I am plumping for a Dr Strange appearance at the end. Whether or not that is the cameo that everyone has been speculating about or not.

[Cranberry]

During this week's theme song/opening, Friday the 10th is circled with a heart on the calendar. That's not the same day that had a heart during the premiere. What's the significance to this? I've seen speculation that it's hinting at that rumored 10th episode (which would make sense in that it's on a Friday, and it would also fill that gap week between the end of WV and the beginning of Falcon and Winter Soldier). 

[arc]

2 hours ago, Cranberry said:

and it would also fill that gap week between the end of WV and the beginning of Falcon and Winter Soldier). 

The Disney Gallery-ish show "Assembled" is already scheduled for March 12th, which I think means Wandavision will wrap up with the 9th episode the week before that, as expected.

[Sakura12]

3 hours ago, Megras said:

Does anyone have any thoughts on the different colours associated with peoples' powers we saw in this most recent episode.

Wanda - Red

Agatha - Purple

Monica - Blue

Weird book - sort of orangey yellow

I guess Vision might still be yellow, which leaves green so I am plumping for a Dr Strange appearance at the end. Whether or not that is the cameo that everyone has been speculating about or not.

When Billy stopped Tommy to tell him about Vision, his powers were blue as well. I'm thinking the colors are just different magical abilities. 

 

[lovett1979]

Spoiler

This promo for episode 8 includes a shot that is 100% Dr Strange walking up the stairs in the Sanctum Sanctorum, and audio of (I'm pretty sure) Dr Strange saying "There was no other way."

 

 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

 

It seems to me that fanboys have targeted Brie Larson/Captain Marvel more than, say, ScarJo/Black Widow, Zoe Saldana/Gamora, Evangeline Lilly/Wasp, Gal Gadot/Wonder Woman, or a lot of other superheroines. 

Now that may be me not having seen criticism of the other characters, or that Capt. Marvel was the first MCU movie with a female lead, the notion that Captain Marvel had perhaps more flaws than we have come to expect from a MCU movie at this point (or perhaps the same flaws, magnified by having been there, done that), or some specific Brie Larson things that struck them as trying to hard to be "woke," 

 

The negative reaction started well before Brie was even cast. I feel like the main difference is that those other characters were designed to appeal to men while Kelly Sue DeConnick‘s Captain Marvel was designed to be more representative of women. That combined with the gender swap seemed to turn her into a lightning rod. Everything Brie said and did was contorted to portray as a woke, SJW, man hater that no one could stand.  She came to represent everything toxic fanboys hated. 

52 minutes ago, lovett1979 said:

  Hide contents

This promo for episode 8 includes a shot that is 100% Dr Strange walking up the stairs in the Sanctum Sanctorum, and audio of (I'm pretty sure) Dr Strange saying "There was no other way."

 

 

Nevermind. That’s not an official promo but one a fan made one by Screen Culture. 

Edited February 20, 2021 by Guest

[lovett1979]

49 minutes ago, Dani said:

 

Nevermind. That’s not an official promo but one a fan made one by Screen Culture. 

Oh, I didn't realize. Why would anyone make a fake trailer? That's so weird. Should I take down the post?

[arc]

2 hours ago, lovett1979 said:

Why would anyone make a fake trailer?

Internet clout. Also, acquiring subscribers and views leads to more money.

[Chicago Redshirt]

12 hours ago, absnow54 said:

So we saw in episode 7 that Agnes was controlling “Pietro” when he first arrived, which still leaves the door open to this being a snatched X-Peter. I wonder if Vision will be able to deprogram him to get him out of Agatha’s spell so we can find out who this guy really is. 

For my money, it seems to all but close the door on it being X-Verse Pietro. 

Back when we did not know how Pietro got there, it seemed plausible that Wanda plucked him from the X-Verse and pulled him to Westview either consciously or subconsciously. 

But given the Agatha All Along reveal and given Pietro's behavior, it seems way more likely that it's no Pietro at all but Mephisto/Nightmare. 

[absnow54]

6 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

But given the Agatha All Along reveal and given Pietro's behavior, it seems way more likely that it's no Pietro at all but Mephisto/Nightmare

But why did it look like she was controlling “Pietro” with her magic, unless the flash of magic we saw in the Agatha All Along sequence was her changing her accomplice’s appearance, which could be the case, I guess. Although, why give him X-Peter’s face and not ATJs?

Edited February 20, 2021 by absnow54

[Chicago Redshirt]

45 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

But why did it look like she was controlling “Pietro” with her magic, unless the flash of magic we saw in the Agatha All Along sequence was her changing her accomplice’s appearance, which could be the case, I guess. Although, why give him X-Peter’s face and not ATJs?

Well, we saw her use a magic gesture when "Pietro" was already at the door. We are only guessing as to what the magic gesture was meant to do (or indeed, if in "reality" she made that gesture or if it's a byproduct of the song. From what we saw, Agatha didn't literally vamp in the mirror when Vision came to her at the border of the Hex, for instance.)

It's possible that Wanda somehow unwittingly summoned X-Verse Pietro and that Agatha intercepted him and turned him into a jerk and gave him selective knowledge of MCU Pietro. But then the story would need to explain how she got so powerful that she could do that in the first place ,why she chose Xverse Pietro over all the possible Pietros out there she could have chosen - including ones who looked and acted more like her own, how Agatha could anticipate the move and counter it so quickly.  

Most of those questions would still exist if it was the doing entirely of Agnes/Mephisto/Nightmare/other partner.

But if Pietro is just Mephisto/Nightmare/some random dude magicked up, we have an answer to the question of how the trick was accomplished. Mephisto and Nightmare can naturally shapeshift, and Agatha can (presumably) change someone's appearance. As to why make Pietro look like not-her-Pietro, it could be a few things. They could just want to taunt her. They could want to help accelerate or worsen her mental break. They might want to distract her by giving her a mystery she can't solve. They could have thought that making him look like ATJ would break the illusion when he obviously couldn't be like ATJ.

[Luckylyn]

Questions I have:

-Who is Ralph?  Does he really exist? I think he’s real.  Could he be Pietro?

-Why hold so many people hostage in Westview when managing that many people leads to glitches? I think the people could be being used like batteries .  

-Are some of the people in Westview already dead?

-Who/Where is Woo’s missing fugitive?  I can’t remember of the fugitive was male or female.  I keep thinking it’s Dottie or Ralph

-What is the significance if the hexagon shape?  Is it supposed to be like a play on words?  Witches hex people.

-Are the boys real or will they disappear outside of the Hex?  I think they are real.  I think they may have been one if Agnes goals possibly. I think she was waiting for them to mature more into their powers and use them for some purpose.  Killing the puppy was supposed to stress them in aging faster but that did not go as she intended.

[phalange]

14 hours ago, Luckylyn said:

-Who/Where is Woo’s missing fugitive?  I can’t remember of the fugitive was male or female.  I keep thinking it’s Dottie or Ralph

Woo's missing WitSec person is male. I think it's either "Ralph" or the mailman, who I'm pretty sure was also not identified. He's always around and I feel like the show wouldn't draw our attention to him if he wasn't important somehow. He just seems suspicious to me. 

My questions are:

• What happened between Wanda taking Vision's body from SWORD and them ending up in Westview? Was Agatha the one who tipped Wanda off about what SWORD was doing to him?
• What's the purpose of the broadcasts and who are they meant for? 
• Can Vision actually survive outside the hex? 

[swanpride]

Now that we had the Agatha reveal, how about we are examining our other main suspects for a moment? (Because honestly, does anyone really think that Agatha is the only one messing around).

So, there is my personal main suspect for the 2big bad, which is the mail man. Reason: He was the first one who greeted Wanda and Vision when they entered town, and the way he was displayed in the last episode was really suspicious.

But I think we shouldn't overlooking Dottie either. For a bunch of reasons.
1. The actress who plays her
2. The fact that she started the whole "Think of the children" chanting
3. And like Wanda and Agatha, she is colour coded. Not sure if anyone noticed, but Wanda is colour coded in red, down to the red roses in front of her home, Agatha in purple and Dottie in yellow.
4. She wasn't on the wall.

The only thing which speaks against there being more to her is that she is married and we have seen her husband. Though that was confusing too...wasn't he the same guy who got fired in the first episode? How is she the queen be if her husband is out of a job?

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 2/21/2021 at 11:58 AM, Luckylyn said:

Questions I have:

-Who is Ralph?  Does he really exist? I think he’s real.  Could he be Pietro?

-Why hold so many people hostage in Westview when managing that many people leads to glitches? I think the people could be being used like batteries .  

-Are some of the people in Westview already dead?

-Who/Where is Woo’s missing fugitive?  I can’t remember of the fugitive was male or female.  I keep thinking it’s Dottie or Ralph

-What is the significance if the hexagon shape?  Is it supposed to be like a play on words?  Witches hex people.

-Are the boys real or will they disappear outside of the Hex?  I think they are real.  I think they may have been one if Agnes goals possibly. I think she was waiting for them to mature more into their powers and use them for some purpose.  Killing the puppy was supposed to stress them in aging faster but that did not go as she intended.

My theories:

Ralph could be a homage to the usually-off-screen spouses that sitcoms often refer to (think Vera, Norm's wife in Cheers, or Maris in Frasier).Or Ralph could be a hint at Mephisto/Nightmare/other Big Bad (I'm just going forward going to say Mephisto as shorthand for any possible partners/minions/bosses that Agatha might have). I am of the mindset that "Pietro" is actually Mephisto.

Agatha/Mephisto do not care about the glitches themselves. They care about draining Wanda's power or power from the townspeople. The glitches only matter to the extent that they might wake Wanda up from her dream world. 

I imagine no more people are dead in Westview than would have died in the corresponding time frame, and probably fewer.

No real clue as to the missing witness protection person. I would imagine it would have to be someone we've already encountered, and it's male. It presumably is not someone who was specifically called out by Darcy or Jimmy when they were identifying people. So that doesn't really leave too many people. Essentially, the doctor who was trying to escape or the mailman. (I remember Mr. Hart, Herb and Norm were specifically IDed. Can't remember if Johnson was) 

The hexagon shape may be a function of there having been six Infinity Stones in addition to the hex/hexagon play on words.

I imagine the boys are, or will be, real just based on the fact that their comics counterparts eventually were real

On 2/22/2021 at 3:04 AM, phalange said:

My questions are:

• What happened between Wanda taking Vision's body from SWORD and them ending up in Westview? Was Agatha the one who tipped Wanda off about what SWORD was doing to him?
• What's the purpose of the broadcasts and who are they meant for? 
• Can Vision actually survive outside the hex? 

My suspicion is that Agatha entered the picture only after the creation of Westview. I don't see a feasible way for Agatha to have known where Vision was that Wanda would not have, other than Mephisto telling her. 

My theory is that Wanda had an idea of what peaceful happy times would be like through watching American sitcoms, and that someone came along and offered her a Faustian bargain that put her as a star of such sitcoms.

I'm thinking Vision can't survive outside the Hex.

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 2/24/2021 at 1:39 PM, swanpride said:

Now that we had the Agatha reveal, how about we are examining our other main suspects for a moment? (Because honestly, does anyone really think that Agatha is the only one messing around).

So, there is my personal main suspect for the 2big bad, which is the mail man. Reason: He was the first one who greeted Wanda and Vision when they entered town, and the way he was displayed in the last episode was really suspicious.

But I think we shouldn't overlooking Dottie either. For a bunch of reasons.
1. The actress who plays her
2. The fact that she started the whole "Think of the children" chanting
3. And like Wanda and Agatha, she is colour coded. Not sure if anyone noticed, but Wanda is colour coded in red, down to the red roses in front of her home, Agatha in purple and Dottie in yellow.
4. She wasn't on the wall.

The only thing which speaks against there being more to her is that she is married and we have seen her husband. Though that was confusing too...wasn't he the same guy who got fired in the first episode? How is she the queen be if her husband is out of a job?

Dottie is indeed married to Jones, the guy who got fired in the first episode; was at the neighborhood watch meeting, played music at the talent show and complained that Wanda zapped his mother's piano in the second, and was rescued from having to answer if Dottie's earrings made her look fat by a blackout in the third. (I don't specifically remember if he has popped up since).

Even queen bees might have worker drones who stumble. But the other thing is that the show seemingly rewrites its history/backstory as it progresses. So even though Johnson was canned in the pilot, he could have been hired back or gotten another job or never even fired by the time things moved forward to the 60s and 70s. 

Edited February 26, 2021 by Chicago Redshirt

[Guest]

7 hours ago, swanpride said:

But I think we shouldn't overlooking Dottie either. For a bunch of reasons.
1. The actress who plays her
2. The fact that she started the whole "Think of the children" chanting
3. And like Wanda and Agatha, she is colour coded. Not sure if anyone noticed, but Wanda is colour coded in red, down to the red roses in front of her home, Agatha in purple and Dottie in yellow.
4. She wasn't on the wall.

The only thing which speaks against there being more to her is that she is married and we have seen her husband. Though that was confusing too...wasn't he the same guy who got fired in the first episode? How is she the queen be if her husband is out of a job?

If she’s involved, everything points to her being Arcanna Jones. Arcanna has the right look, her powers are yellow and she creates illusions making her a natural fit. Within the show she’s married to Phil Jones which is the name of Arcanna’s comic husband. We saw Phil’s real world ID but he also had an alias listed which suggests there is more to him. Possibly something to do with Woo’s missing witness. 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Guest

[Sakura12]

Agatha's brooch has 3 figures on it, which could mean their are 3 people involved. 

Agnes' picture was on the wall with no driver's license. Dottie wasn't on the board at all. We met at the same time as some others on the board. So if she is Arcanna I wonder if she's making them forget about her. 

If Jones is the missing WitSec person then Dottie/Arcanna could use him as her husband since he was not a Westview resident. Or he really is her husband. We don't know what he why he was in Witsec. 

[Kromm]

My Speculation is that the Episode we're going to see in about 17 hours will be a big twist one. 

Last episode was twist light, because Agatha All Along was pretty obvious. 

I think there will be at least one medium sized early in the episode twist, and one huge one at the end. I can't say what they'll be, it's just that pacing I expect. 

Perhaps who and what Fauxietro is will be the early twist.  I had been thinking something about Hayward might be the second twist, except I'm not sure if there's time for it to be anything more than him coming to scoop up Vision. So maybe the second twist is beyond anything with Fauxietro, a reveal of the whole purpose of all of this... before the actual finale. 

I think the fight Wanda and Vision were seen preparing for in these clothes is going to firmly be in the middle of this episode. Since we're expecting fights with both SWORD and Agatha, do those happen one per remaining episode? Or do we maybe get a split, where Monica winds up facing SWORD, while Wanda deals with Agatha? 

[swanpride]

Agents of shield liked to do the double twist...something the audience had suspected followed directly by something it didn't. Worked wonderfully through the whole run.

[Kromm]

So even though Bettany has definitely worked with him, I sensing a possible foiler concerning the cameo, and... maybe it's James Spader. 

Not as Ultron.  But I think Vision - Jarvis - Infinity Stone power + Chaos Energy = White Vision being an empathy free Ultron-light. 

[absnow54]

Re: Fietro. I’m curious why Agatha made a point of saying she couldn’t use real Pietro, because his body was on another continent. I still think she pulled X-Peter out of the multiverse, because he lives in the Northeast (I can’t find where his mother’s basement is.)

[Ailianna]

If I remember correctly, his mom's basement was in New Jersey.

[tv echo]

I really hope this series doesn't end the way Chuck ended.

Edited February 26, 2021 by tv echo

[Enigma X]

What I hope doesn't happen is WandaVersion Vision and Zombie Vision fight, and Wanda ends up killing one or both of them. I know some of you find happy endings boring, but I am rooting for Vision's consciousness (Wanda's version) being returned to his body (zombie) and they both live to spar with the big bad another day.

[Keywestclubkid]

2 hours ago, absnow54 said:

Re: Fietro. I’m curious why Agatha made a point of saying she couldn’t use real Pietro, because his body was on another continent. I still think she pulled X-Peter out of the multiverse, because he lives in the Northeast (I can’t find where his mother’s basement is.)

She cant bring the dead back to life .. she said he was on another continent and full of holes

[swanpride]

I am calling it: Next episode we will see a Vision vs Vision fight.

[Llywela]

2 minutes ago, Keywestclubkid said:

She cant bring the dead back to life .. she said he was on another continent and full of holes

Agatha said that she'd have been up for necromancy (bringing Pietro back from the dead in some fashion) if his body weren't so inconveniently situated. He'd also be in an advanced state of decomposition at this point, which you'd think would be more of a hindrance than the holes, but it was his location that was the main hindrance, from what she said.

I'm guessing that whatever form of necromancy she has in mind wouldn't actually raise the dead as true and unfettered versions of themselves, but would be pretty unpleasant in and of itself.

Edited February 26, 2021 by Llywela

[Keywestclubkid]

12 minutes ago, Llywela said:

Agatha said that she'd have been up for necromancy (bringing Pietro back from the dead in some fashion) if his body weren't so inconveniently situated. He'd also be in an advanced state of decomposition at this point, which you'd think would be more of a hindrance than the holes, but it was his location that was the main hindrance, from what she said.

I'm guessing that whatever form of necromancy she has in mind wouldn't actually raise the dead as true and unfettered versions of themselves, but would be pretty unpleasant in and of itself.

9 years of decomposition would there be anything left? LOL

[swanpride]

I am wondering...so, what Wanda is doing is basically chaos magic...and apparently she has some inherent power which allows her to manipulate likelihoods. Who knows, maybe the stark bomb actually wasn't a dud but she accidentally turned it into one. 

But what if something is basically using her as some sort of vessel? It was kind of noticeable that the power which shaped Vision wasn't red but yellow. Meaning that she was basically challenging the colour of the mind stone.

The infinity stones are gone but now that Wanda is back, maybe she is now used as some sort of conductor to recreate something to replace them. In order to stabilise this reality….

[Kromm]

5 minutes ago, swanpride said:

I am wondering...so, what Wanda is doing is basically chaos magic...and apparently she has some inherent power which allows her to manipulate likelihoods

Without going deep into comics stuff, which would be better suited for the comics topic, the quick and dirty version is that her base power is to affect probabilities. So there's a theoretical chance let's say that an armed bomb won't go off, and her power makes that result unstatistically happen rather than normal probability ruling. 

That's different from the things she does later. Mind reading, mind control, matter reassembly, matter CREATION, etc. 

[dmeets]

7 hours ago, swanpride said:

I am calling it: Next episode we will see a Vision vs Vision fight.

I'm 1000% convinced Bettany was talking about himself when he mentioned having instant chemistry with an actor he'd been longing to work with for his entire life. Has to be.

[Cthulhudrew]

46 minutes ago, dmeets said:

I'm 1000% convinced Bettany was talking about himself when he mentioned having instant chemistry with an actor he'd been longing to work with for his entire life. Has to be.

Agreed. I saw someone else speculate on this, and went back and rewatched his comment. I think he was clearly having fun with the reporter and the fans.

[Kromm]

I guess I can see this finale divided up into VS. Battles.

Monica vs. Fietro

Vision vs. White Vision 

Wanda vs. Agatha 

Hayward waits in the wings and is more of a political takedown than a physical one. Monica and some as yet unseen offscreen ally, possibly arranged via the not seen in a while Jimmy Woo, probably set that up. 

[madhacker]

Still thinking Dr. Strange will show up so here's how I hope it'll go down....

Vision wont die again but will be merged with the White Vision somehow. Will he remember Wanda is the question.

Monica will somehow be the key to defeating Agatha proably with her Spectum/Photon powers emerging

The only thing I'm almost certain is the twins will be fine. With Cassie Lang already introduced and Kate Bishop confirmed for the Hawkeye show it's obvious that Marvel is moving quickly for the Young Avengers. Billy and Tommy are way too popular in the comics for them too be killed off. Especially Billy, if they killed off Wiccan the gay community would raise all kind of hell. My casting for Billy would be Troye Sivan. He's cute already played a superhero (played young Logan) and he's openly gay. If you dont understand what I'm talking about just Google  Wiccan Marvel comics.

[arc]

Agatha’s mother manifested a magic headdress when she was at full power. I think this will foreshadow Wanda adopting the canonical comics headdress shape, albeit in CGI magic energy rather than fabric, going forward in the MCU, and starting with the final episode.

[johntfs]

On 2/26/2021 at 8:50 AM, Keywestclubkid said:

9 years of decomposition would there be anything left? LOL

Decomposition?  Wasn't Pietro's corpse still in the city when it blew itself apart?  That body's ashes.

[formerlyfreedom]

5 minutes ago, johntfs said:

Decomposition?  Wasn't Pietro's corpse still in the city when it blew itself apart?  That body's ashes.

Just rewatched Age of Ultron today - Clint actually evacuates Pietro’s body on the helicarrier. 

[johntfs]

On 2/26/2021 at 7:37 PM, madhacker said:

Still thinking Dr. Strange will show up so here's how I hope it'll go down....

Vision wont die again but will be merged with the White Vision somehow. Will he remember Wanda is the question.

Monica will somehow be the key to defeating Agatha proably with her Spectum/Photon powers emerging

The only thing I'm almost certain is the twins will be fine. With Cassie Lang already introduced and Kate Bishop confirmed for the Hawkeye show it's obvious that Marvel is moving quickly for the Young Avengers. Billy and Tommy are way too popular in the comics for them too be killed off. Especially Billy, if they killed off Wiccan the gay community would raise all kind of hell. My casting for Billy would be Troye Sivan. He's cute already played a superhero (played young Logan) and he's openly gay. If you dont understand what I'm talking about just Google  Wiccan Marvel comics.

I think Wanda's twins will eventually show up IRL, but I don't think they'll make it through this.  The whole point of what Agatha is doing is to snap Wanda back to reality.  In reality Vision is dead and Wanda didn't (and couldn't) have children with her figment-of-her-imagination robot Hex hubby.

[swanpride]

Wanda could have been pregnant all along. Don't see how you can pregnant from an android in the first place, though.

[Llywela]

7 minutes ago, swanpride said:

Wanda could have been pregnant all along. Don't see how you can pregnant from an android in the first place, though.

Same way you construct a sentient synthezoid out of thin air, at a guess. Wanda's Vision exists. He's not just a mass hallucination, he has a physical existence. He emits a vibranium decay pattern that Hayward was able to track. He stepped outside the Hex and was visible to the people out there. His body started to come apart when he stepped outside, but he still had a body out there to come apart. He retains his independence of thought and opinion, makes decisions that Wanda opposes but can't prevent, and he has his own unique personality. He isn't just a puppet animated at Wanda's will. He's a person. Like the twins, who also have independent thought, will and personality. How Wanda created this Vision is anyone's guess but it doesn't seem too big a stretch to assume that the twins were created in much the same way.

[swanpride]

If the twins were created the same way they wouldn't be able to survive outside of Westview. And I don't think that this is what they are going for.

[Sakura12]

Agatha called what Wanda did spontaneous creation so she could've not only created her own reality she created 3 physical beings as well. Vision, Billy and Tommy all have independent thought and free will. She can't control them the way she controls the rest of the town. 

She's a legend, a myth among the witches. So she's basically a god. So she may be able to create life. 

[MagnusHex]

It's a real dilemma for me, to be honest, what the actual situation is with Wanda's twins.

On the one hand, people are generally correct in saying that using the comic book version of the plot is a bit... icky. Considering the MCU's track record with female main characters not getting their happy endings (or their own solo movies), having Wanda finding out that the twins are not actually real, and that they're maybe part of Mephisto's creations or something, it just has all kinds of unfortunate implications. Storylines dealing with a woman's birth and birth defects are very tricky to handle. Script it poorly, and you get a case of X-Files Scully ickiness. The mystical pregnancy trope is still a problem that I don't think a lot of TV writers know how to solve (or utilize properly).

On the other hand... I'm a sucker for tragedies, that's why I was drawn to a show dealing with grief in the first place. The audience in me doesn't really care much about gender politics, and the idea of a woman struggling with the loss of a child (even a fabricated child) is a powerful subject I would be interested in exploring. Whether that is socially-acceptable for Kevin Feige and Marvel/Disney, that's another story...

[cambridgeguy]

There are two extremes for how this series ends.

1. The dark ending - Hex Vision and the kids are gone, the people of Westview are permanently traumatized, and Wanda gets tossed into a combo prison/loony bin with some sort of power suppressor.  She gets to marinate in her own misery until Dr. Strange needs her.  Hayward pulls a Ross and keeps his job with a medal for his "competence" while Monica gets fired for insubordination. 

2. The sitcom ending - Hex Vision merges with White Vision and is OK, the kids live, and the Westview people are OK.  Hayward gets his ass fired, Monica gets to take his place or go off and do superhero things, etc.  Wanda and her family go live on a farm or something (the Barton thing) to enjoy some domestic bliss and only get called into action when needed.

I think they'll strike a balance, especially since Wanda's story isn't done yet, but I don't think they'll deprive her of all hope.  All of the other MCU heroes have gotten somewhat happy endings (even Natasha, who went out with a smile, and Tony, who had years of marital bliss and gets to be remembered as the world's greatest hero).  It's not really right if Wanda and Vision are the ones who get crapped on.

 

[MagnusHex]

6 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

I think they'll strike a balance, especially since Wanda's story isn't done yet, but I don't think they'll deprive her of all hope.  All of the other MCU heroes have gotten somewhat happy endings (even Natasha, who went out with a smile, and Tony, who had years of marital bliss and gets to be remembered as the world's greatest hero).  It's not really right if Wanda and Vision are the ones who get crapped on.

 

I think balance is good, but let's get some perspective here: Phase 4 is basically like a new Phase 1, building up to a new Avengers trilogy with new main characters that are not the original team from the first Avengers. Bruce was practically suicidal at the beginning of Avengers 1. So yeah, balance would be nice, but I feel some conflict that remains in Wanda's life would be suitable for her role in Dr. Strange 2. The rumor that she might even be a villain there certainly sounds interesting enough to me, a tragic hero turned villain unleashing her anguish.

[Kromm]

3 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

There are two extremes for how this series ends.

1. The dark ending - Hex Vision and the kids are gone, the people of Westview are permanently traumatized, and Wanda gets tossed into a combo prison/loony bin with some sort of power suppressor.  She gets to marinate in her own misery until Dr. Strange needs her.  Hayward pulls a Ross and keeps his job with a medal for his "competence" while Monica gets fired for insubordination. 

2. The sitcom ending - Hex Vision merges with White Vision and is OK, the kids live, and the Westview people are OK.  Hayward gets his ass fired, Monica gets to take his place or go off and do superhero things, etc.  Wanda and her family go live on a farm or something (the Barton thing) to enjoy some domestic bliss and only get called into action when needed.

I think they'll strike a balance, especially since Wanda's story isn't done yet, but I don't think they'll deprive her of all hope.  All of the other MCU heroes have gotten somewhat happy endings (even Natasha, who went out with a smile, and Tony, who had years of marital bliss and gets to be remembered as the world's greatest hero).  It's not really right if Wanda and Vision are the ones who get crapped on.

 

I'm thinking:

The kids are gone, but not permanently.  And here's a key aspect.  Does them disappearing break Wanda further, or not?  We still don't know if she's a hero or villain in Dr. Strange 2.

If Wanda isn't pushed further into the villain corner, I'm at a bit of a loss what the show implies is due punishment for her deeds.  I'm not even fully confident the show will find her morally culpable.

Hayward seems like a one-off.  But who knows?

Monica is the biggest puzzle for me.  I can't decide if her keeping her job or losing it is better setup for Captain Marvel 2.  Mainly because I don't know the actual plot of Captain Marvel 2.   I know Carol is in it.  I know Monica is in it.  I'm pretty sure Khamala Khan is going to be in it.  Otherwise?  Who knows?  So who knows what standing for Monica best serves it.

Whether or not Monica is outted as a Superhero is key.  Clearly there's no way she's going to voluntarily work for Hayward, even if he weasels out of responsibility.  Does she go solo?  Does she walk up to Avengers HQ?  Does she show up at an Airforce base and offer her services there?  If Hayward DOES get the boot, does she take his job?  Or does Nick Fury show up and offer her a secret job doing something Nick Furyish?

Who knows? 

Edited February 28, 2021 by Kromm

[johntfs]

5 hours ago, MagnusHex said:

It's a real dilemma for me, to be honest, what the actual situation is with Wanda's twins.

On the one hand, people are generally correct in saying that using the comic book version of the plot is a bit... icky. Considering the MCU's track record with female main characters not getting their happy endings (or their own solo movies), having Wanda finding out that the twins are not actually real, and that they're maybe part of Mephisto's creations or something, it just has all kinds of unfortunate implications. Storylines dealing with a woman's birth and birth defects are very tricky to handle. Script it poorly, and you get a case of X-Files Scully ickiness. The mystical pregnancy trope is still a problem that I don't think a lot of TV writers know how to solve (or utilize properly).

On the other hand... I'm a sucker for tragedies, that's why I was drawn to a show dealing with grief in the first place. The audience in me doesn't really care much about gender politics, and the idea of a woman struggling with the loss of a child (even a fabricated child) is a powerful subject I would be interested in exploring. Whether that is socially-acceptable for Kevin Feige and Marvel/Disney, that's another story...

Well, consider that there are different way to lose a child.  Through death, certainly, but other ways as well.  What if the children are real because... they're somebody else's children and Wanda simply chose to forget that aspect of them.  The other children of Westview were mostly kept "offstage" for the show.  Maybe Wanda just kind of "borrowed" a couple of them that were orphaned or something to use as her and Vision's children.

While Wanda clearly didn't/doesn't want the Hex and her life in it to end, a lot of aspects of the Hex seems to come out of her own subconscious desires rather than out of things she's specifically planned to do.

[absnow54]

6 hours ago, johntfs said:

What if the children are real because... they're somebody else's children and Wanda simply chose to forget that aspect of them. 

Monica confirmed that the twins were real. She helped birth them, and later we saw them grow on their own.