S05.E07: Oyedeng

[raven]

 

Quote

Naomi makes a desperate attempt to save her son from Marco. On the Roci, Holden battles for the last sample of protomolecule.

Airdate 2021.01.12

Please keep your discussion to this episode only.  No book talk, thank you!

[thuganomics85]

While I don't dislike the Naomi/Marco/Filip storyline as much as some (a lot of it is due to Dominque Tipper always delivering no matter what), it getting the main focus here did make me admit to myself that it is currently the one I care least about, so it was hard to get into this episode this go around.  I think a lot of my issues; besides Marco being an atypical baddie; is that I feel like Filip's story is going to go either one of two ways, and neither one is that interesting.  He's either going to fully embrace his father's teachings and get to a point of no return or he's going to suddenly have a change of heart at the perfect time, and help save the day.  Neither one of these ideas are really gripping to me, so I hope something else is in store.

At least it looks like Naomi is finally out of Marco's grasp, even if it took her having to actually jump into freaking space to do so!  The good news is that she is now on a ship that is heading to Holden!  The bad news is that it is a ship that is a trap to kill him...

I'm guessing Cyn is done for.  It's too bad the Belter that stood up to Marco is gone, but it might have been a case of too little, too late.

Fun seeing Holden with his "new", temporary crew.  While Alex is still probably the best pilot in the galaxy, Bull definitely showed himself to be no slouch either.  And I continue to like how resourceful and helpful Monica is.  They could have easily just made her a nuisance for Holden and whatnot, but she is bringing her A-game as well.

Glad Alex/Bobbie are getting closer to Holden and his lot, and how quickly they sprung into action, once Holden ask them to help save Naomi.  No matter the danger, this group will always look out for one another.  They are truly a family.

No Amos, Clarissa, or Drummer this time, sadly.  At least we got Chrisjen via a video recording!

[Msample]

Man, this was a tedious episode. The bulk of it was the monotonous Marco’s Bad Ship Lollipop. Ugh. At least Naomi got to do something besides whimper at the end and we’ll hopefully be spared more scenes of her and Marcos.

Miss not seeing Amos or Drummer.

[steelyis]

Fuck Marco. Fuck Filip. Of course Cyn, the only member of Marco's crew I had the tiniest bit of concern for, dies. At least Naomi finally freed herself, and got to be a stone-cold badass while doing so.

[MissLucas]

I'm glad we finally got to the back-story of Naomi 'abandoning' TLS, it was necessary to understand her actions this season. She simply had to try even though she stood no chance. At least she got one tender moment with her son. And then she got to be a complete badass - I wonder if TLS realizes what she has done or thinks she committed suicide. Cyn was a goner for quite some time now. I wondered if TPTB would give him some final moment of grace and redemption by helping Naomi escape. But this was definitely the better option, she was not a damsel in distress and he did not really deserve that level of redemption. That said I think we could have done with a bit less of TBS moustache twirling in exchange for getting an idea what Amos, Peaches and Drummer were up to and maybe a bit more Avasarala. But at least Naomi is off that ship now and on her way to Holden.

Bobbie and Alex make a great team, can't wait for them to get back to the Roci. I enjoyed the B-team's dynamics on the ship. Bull and Holden talking about Fred was interesting, I particularly liked Bull's annoyance at Holden's insistence on being right. That has been a narrative beat since season one, by now you'd think people realize that Holden is actually right (most of the time) - just like Avasarala. It's frustrating but realistic that they both still have to fight to get their points across. We did have a moment in this episode where Holden was wavering, I'm not sure we needed Monica to remind him that following the protomolecule must have priority. But it was a good use of her character and I like that the writing for her does not follow the usual trope of 'annoying journalist gets in hero's way'. And I loved seeing the Roci in combat, those railguns delivering rounds in a perfect spiral pattern was a sight to behold.

 

[Netfoot]

My take on the entire TLS redemption arc: It's not working.

 

 

8 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

While I don't dislike the Naomi/Marco/Filip storyline as much as some (a lot of it is due to Dominque Tipper always delivering no matter what)...

I can't agree with you there, because...

1 hour ago, Msample said:

At least Naomi got to do something besides whimper at the end...

Virtually all she did for the entire episode was 'whimper'.

30 minutes ago, steelyis said:

At least Naomi finally freed herself, and got to be a stone-cold badass while doing so.

At least she got away from The Ship Of Shits (TSOS) in a very bad-assed move! Although I must say I watched that scene with some surprise. I'm no expert, but what I saw is nowhere near what I'd expect from exposure to space. And so far, this series has impressed me with it's devotion to realistic portrayal of the orbital environment.

[shrewd.buddha]

3 hours ago, Msample said:

Man, this was a tedious episode.

All the conversations with Naomi/Marco/Filip/OlderGuy were basically the same things they have said previously.  I suppose they were trying to build up to Naomi's 'air-lock moment', but it was boring.  Filip is so wishy-washy that it is annoying. 

2 hours ago, steelyis said:

At least Naomi finally freed herself, and got to be a stone-cold badass while doing so.

Stone-cold: the most apt adjective.  If any realism is applied to this maneuver, Naomi should be blind and have severe long-term physical repercussions.  
How would this stunt realistically work? She was seen going to the ship .. the ship is being remotely piloted .. the ship is only a few hundred feet away .. they can dock with it again and get Naomi back (who should be too incapacitated to resist). 

The Rocinante rail-gun space fight was impressive.  But lately it feels as if the episodes are 85% talking and 15% action (if that).
I would rather watch characters I don't know exploring the new Ring worlds than most of this boring exposition stuff. 

Edited January 13, 2021 by shrewd.buddha

[MissLucas]

Here's some background info on what happens to your body in vacuum exposure (as far as we know):

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/survival-in-space-unprotected-possible/

And here's a clip about the test accident mentioned in the article.

Naomi did exhale slowly instead of holding her breath, as a Belter she knew what to do. But she did not lose consciousness after 15 seconds and only used the injection (adrenaline?) after almost 20 seconds. Maybe we have to handwave that away with Belter physiology? 

ETA: As others have mentioned below Naomi used oxygenated blood, which we also saw used on Monica after her vacuum exposure.

Edited January 13, 2021 by MissLucas

[Netfoot]

19 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

Naomi did exhale slowly instead of holding her breath, as a Belter she knew what to do. But she did not lose consciousness after 15 seconds and only used the injection (adrenaline?) after almost 20 seconds. Maybe we have to handwave that away with Belter physiology? 

 

I'm handwaving away vigorously, and I'm not going to let it spoil the show for me by any means. But my expectations would have involved more ruptured blood vessels, more boiling off of fluids from the eye, mouth and nose, and (at -270°C) at least some formation of frost. Hadn't considered the involuntary evacuation (ugh!) suggested by the article but... yeah.

[Eulipian 5k]

Since there's no air in space , or a breeze whooshing by, there's no reason for Naomi to lose her body heat or for her sweat to frost up. She did jump from ship to ship in the Ring, (Behemoth to Roci), all be it wearing a vac suit; I guess Belters are used to space jumps and free floating in space (RIP Diogo, also in a vac suit with air). Now it's time for Naomi to de activate whatever bomb is on the Chetzmoka, (sp?); just like she disarmed the 30 earth nuclear missiles.

Yes, it wasn't an excitement rush we've seen before, but it's a TV show, not a shot of hyper-oxygenated blood, so I expect some down time for the characters to interact, and move into position.

Will the "tribute" from Drummer's ship, who is now on the Pella, inform her that Naomi just "jumped ship"? That's got to be big news known to everyone on board.

[Holmbo]

I actually enjoyed the episode throughout. Even though deep down I don't care about Filip or Cyn the emitions of the moments got to me and I could relate to the feelings they were having at the time. I don't know enough about vacum to say if Naomis escape was realistic or not. It looked cool though. I thought the medicine she was carying was super oxinated blood, just cause Holden used that before.

[tennisgurl]

I don't care that its pretty damn out there that Naomi could survive flushing herself into space, I am just so happy she gets to finally be badass and do something besides being miserable and crying while begging her son to stop being a terrorist. I mostly liked this episode, but I am so glad that Naomi is finally heading towards a better plot, and the crew is closer to getting together again. I really miss everyone on the Rocinante together, especially as they were separated last season too, but at least then they were split in half instead of all in their own subplots. We haven't seen all four crew characters together all season, and we are already at episode seven. 

I missed Amos and Peaches. And we only saw Chrisjen one time in Space Zoom, but something is better than nothing. I hope we can take a break from Marco and spend time in the other plots for a bit, I just cannot stand Marco and his crazy eyes and general mustache twirling asshole ways. Every time I think we are moving forward with Filip they pull him back to Marco, but I think that he still might end up saving the day at a the last minute and side with Naomi. Marco being a narcissist sociopath who clearly doesn't care about Filip or the Belt and is in all of this for the ego trip will probably turn Filip faster than any tearful speeches from Naomi. Of course Cyn, the only one of those guys I was interested in, is possibly already dead. 

Glad that Bobbi and Alex are heading towards Holden, and their space adventures was pretty cool, nice to get some action. And of course them running off to save Naomi. 

Holden and his "new crew" are fun though, and I really like how they have used Monica this season. They could have made her an annoying journalist who gets in the way of things, especially when she was first introduced as seemingly trying to make the crew look bad in the documentary she was making, but she is actually quite helpful and resourceful, and really does care about funding the truth. I also liked the talk Holden had about Fred with Bull, it was quite interesting. I already miss Fred. 

[Enero]

19 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

While I don't dislike the Naomi/Marco/Filip storyline as much as some (a lot of it is due to Dominque Tipper always delivering no matter what), it getting the main focus here did make me admit to myself that it is currently the one I care least about, so it was hard to get into this episode this go around.  I think a lot of my issues; besides Marco being an atypical baddie; is that I feel like Filip's story is going to go either one of two ways, and neither one is that interesting.  He's either going to fully embrace his father's teachings and get to a point of no return or he's going to suddenly have a change of heart at the perfect time, and help save the day.  Neither one of these ideas are really gripping to me, so I hope something else is in store.

Third option, he abandons the cause, and both Naomi and Marco and walks away from it all never to be seen again. I wouldn’t lose any sleep over this scenario. Lol

I agree with the consensus. Cyn is as good as dead and thank goodness Naomi FINALLY freed herself from the albatross that is psycho Marco, Judas Cyn and flip flopping Filip. The latter is his father’s son in that he desires the power and worship that comes with being a terrorist. I thought maybe he’d see his father for who he is when he made it clear that he saw Filip as weak and nothing without him. But the promise of that pie in the sky, of course after his father dies and the subsequent chant of worship that followed was enough to get him back in line. 

With regards to Marco, what a POS. After all these years he’s still very angry and bitter about Naomi leaving him. I almost think he’s still “in love” with her whatever love means to him. But more than anything I think he is angry that she had the gall to have her own mind and leave him. He who everyone is nothing without. Nobody leaves him. No matter how many times he “offers” them a clean exit ie Cyn and Drummer. I think the latter is dead meat anyway, but if he took Marco up on his offer and left he wouldn’t have made it past the space doors and of course we know if Drummer hadn’t agreed to join his cause she and her crew would’ve been killed on the spot.

Not much happened this episode, but it was still engaging.  Hopefully things will pick up in the last three episodes of the season.

 

 

 

 

[wanderingstar]

Lots of abusive behavior and logic from Marco in this episode. From gaslighting Naomi to humiliating Filip in front of the entire crew of the Pella, he was just appalling.

I LOVED that battle between the Rocinante and the Zmeya. Bull did some fancy flying. But now I am wondering if the protomolecule was even on the Zmeya, or if there was a handoff to the Pella or another ship in Marco's fleet.

Brilliant seeing Naomi leap toward the Chetezemoka.

[marinw]

Show, I love you, but please: Less Marco and more Amos and Avasalara.

 

[Haleth]

Now that Naomi is off the Ship of Shits (hand waving how preposterous that was) it’s time for the Roci to blow it to scrap metal.

 

[Mr. R0b0t]

What even is this show now?  We’ve gone from a space noir with nuance, pace and action to a messy family break up show. Needless to say I found this episode pretty pedestrian. 

[steelyis]

3 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

Lots of abusive behavior and logic from Marco in this episode. From gaslighting Naomi to humiliating Filip in front of the entire crew of the Pella, he was just appalling.

I LOVED that battle between the Rocinante and the Zmeya. Bull did some fancy flying. But now I am wondering if the protomolecule was even on the Zmeya, or if there was a handoff to the Pella or another ship in Marco's fleet.

Brilliant seeing Naomi leap toward the Chetezemoka.

 

1 hour ago, Haleth said:

Now that Naomi is off the Ship of Shits (hand waving how preposterous that was) it’s time for the Roci to blow it to scrap metal.

 

 

6 minutes ago, Mr. R0b0t said:

What even is this show now?  We’ve gone from a space noir with nuance, pace and action to a messy family break up show. Needless to say I found this episode pretty pedestrian. 

 

The episodes that focus on Marco and Filip would flow so much better if Marco was actually charming and not an obvious narcissistic megalomaniac, and if Filip wasn't a whiny, wannabe, little daddy's boy.

Just one ounce of charisma from either of the two would go a long way.

[Auntie Anxiety]

45 minutes ago, Mr. R0b0t said:

What even is this show now?  We’ve gone from a space noir with nuance, pace and action to a messy family break up show. Needless to say I found this episode pretty pedestrian. 

I think the writers inserted a few pages from an old Day’s of Our Lives script by mistake. 

Less talk, more action would be my first suggestion.

[marinw]

I hate to say it, but this may be the first episodeof The Expanse I found less than riveting. Except for that nice battle and Noami's escape.

Marco is no Sadavir Errinwright or Jules-Pierre Mao, he is just not an interesting or complex villian.

Edited January 14, 2021 by marinw

[Tachi Rocinante]

This was simply below average all the way around.  As others have said, Marco isn't very compelling.

Surviving in a vacuum for a brief period is possible, especially since she exhaled. Exposure to cosmic radiation, however, is another issue entirely.

[Eulipian 5k]

6 hours ago, Tachi Rocinante said:

Surviving in a vacuum for a brief period is possible, especially since she exhaled. Exposure to cosmic radiation, however, is another issue entirely.

Didn't Naomi treat Holden and Miller after  "we just got hit with a massive dose of radiation ...We're dead.", way back in season one? I'm sure many daredevil rock hoppers have done this kind of  EVA before, (cough, cough Bizzy Bitiko).

OTOH: Is Cyn dead? There was some tragedy in the way Naomi told him he shouldn't have followed her.

Edited January 14, 2021 by Eulipian 5k
Sin never dies

[MissLucas]

Yeah, I think Cyn's dead. He had had no time to prepare for what was coming unlike Naomi who had been taking several deep breaths before pushing the airlock button and TLS was too shocked to react quickly to save him.

[WatchrTina]

On 1/13/2021 at 2:38 PM, tennisgurl said:

Every time I think we are moving forward with Filip they pull him back to Marco, but I think that he still might end up saving the day at a the last minute and side with Naomi.

I kept hoping that when Filip "searched" Naomi he actually slipped something useful into her pocket and that his coldness towards her (in front of DaddyDearest) was an act.  Now that I think about it . . . where did Naomi get the hypo-spray (TM Star Trek) of oxygenated blood?  I'm assuming I've just forgotten seeing her help herself to it because if Filip put that in her pocket, anticipating her being spaced and hoping it might help her somehow . . . as if he was anticipating her attempt to (literally) jump ship . . . well, that's a lot for me to swallow.

3 hours ago, Eulipian 5k said:

Is Cyn dead? There was some tragedy in the way Naomi told him he shouldn't have followed her.

Yeah I think he was exposed to space unprepared and died but you have to wonder why he didn't just close the outer doors again and save himself?  If Naomi can survive what SHE did, he should have been able to go though some well-practiced emergency procedures and get that outer door closed and the air restored in the airlock.  Are we supposed to think he just surrendered himself to the vacuum due to feeling guilty about his role in driving Naomi to space herself -- that he could not bring himself to close the door that Naomi had just gone out?  I suppose that's possible but, quite frankly, he didn't strike me as being that deep.

I hate Marco more and more every episode and my new name for him is Evil Jon Snow with Eyeliner (the name is partially an homage to Marcel the Shell with Shoes On -- which, if you are unfamiliar with it, you must look up on YouTube.)

So . . . assuming that Namoi DOES make it to the other ship and DOES get in through an airlock (how?) and DOES regain consciousness after being exposed to the vacuum of space (complete with broken eye blood vessels) -- what's to stop TeamMarco from just fetching her back again?  She's not going to be able to leap to her feet and jump into the pilot's chair.

BTW -- Farscape did an episode where John Crichton had to leap from one spaceship to another (sans spacesuit) and they did a great job of depicting it in a plausible manner (complete with John really REALLY not wanting to do it.)  Damn I miss that show.

Edited January 14, 2021 by WatchrTina

[mac123x]

I get what they're doing with Marco / Filip, the emotionally abusive parent who thinks the child is just an extension of himself.  Add that Marco is leading a murderous cult (I keep thinking of that group that set off sarin bombs in the Tokyo subways), and it could be an interesting story.  Unfortunately, the acting is sub-par and it's just gone on WAY too long.

I am glad we got to hear why Naomi abandoned Filip -- she really didn't, which is much more in keeping with her character.

21 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

I LOVED that battle between the Rocinante and the Zmeya. Bull did some fancy flying. But now I am wondering if the protomolecule was even on the Zmeya, or if there was a handoff to the Pella or another ship in Marco's fleet.

Marco reacted to the destruction of the Zmeya like they really lost the protomolecule, so I'm guessing that threat is gone.  At least I hope it is;  protomolecule = doomsday weapon has been used enough on this show.

[Eulipian 5k]

Too bad about Cyn, he was the only salvageable one on TSOS. I don't think they've ever shown the amount of bonds that develop in Belter crews. Karel, TLS, TBS, and Cyn all talk about them being a family. And Cyn tearfullly exclaiming how he loved Naomi and that they were family was touching, for a bunch of mass murderers.

So now, TBS gets to say "See, she abandoned you again!" to TLS.

[JZL]

7 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

Yeah I think he was exposed to space unprepared and died but you have to wonder why he didn't just close the outer doors again and save himself?  If Naomi can survive what SHE did, he should have been able to go though some well-practiced emergency procedures and get that outer door closed and the air restored in the airlock.  Are we supposed to think he just surrendered himself to the vacuum due to feeling guilty about his role in driving Naomi to space herself -- that he could not bring himself to close the door that Naomi had just gone out?  I suppose that's possible but, quite frankly, he didn't strike me as being that deep.*

I hate Marco more and more every episode and my new name for him is Evil Jon Snow with Eyeliner **

* First, I also think Naomi knew Cyn was dead as soon as he walked in there because she made up her mind she had to go no matter what.  Regarding Cyn not going back in, he was caught unawares and I thought at first he was suspended in the airlock with nothing to grab onto, but actually he had his hand on the door frame. Naomi was prepared, took a deep breath, and pushed with everything she had.

** Space Pirate Marcus Sparrow.

[needs eye-patch]

What happened to the real star of the show?***

***whatever happens to be hurtling towards Earth lately.

Edited January 15, 2021 by JZL

[AudienceofOne]

I personally think Cyn is the absolute worst of the bunch and was glad his "It really hurt that I had to repeatedly stab you in the back" schtick didn't result in some kind of nonsense redemption but instead got him dead.

I actually liked this episode in multiple ways, not the least of which because I think that Filip and Naomi are now working together and that whole sequence at the end was planned. It made no sense for Filip to suddenly demand a command, he only did it because his father would knock him back (also I suspect because he wanted to see for himself that his father really was the narcissistic his mother told him he was). This whole scheme to send the ship to destroy the Roci is a plan that Naomi and Filip have cooked up.

Also, to detour off the Ship of Shits, I don't believe the Zmeya would blow itself up if it still had the protomolecule, it's definitely been offloaded.

I understand that all our cast had to try to Go Home Again or have Conversations With Dead People or something but I want everyone back together now, thanks. Well, except for Alex. He can die horribly.

 

[Haleth]

7 hours ago, AudienceofOne said:

have Conversations With Dead People

We need Miller back to smack Holden upside the head for losing focus on finding the PM.  I miss Miller.

7 hours ago, JZL said:

[needs eye-patch]

Now that's funny.

[Eulipian 5k]

10 hours ago, AudienceofOne said:

It made no sense for Filip to suddenly demand a command, he only did it because his father would knock him back (also I suspect because he wanted to see for himself that his father really was the narcissistic his mother told him he was). This whole scheme to send the ship to destroy the Roci is a plan that Naomi and Filip have cooked up.

Hmmm...maybe. She did say that when she tried to stab TBS that she didn't care if she succeeded or died trying, but this jump seems like a risk a only she would agree to .

As regards TLS wanting a command: He's seen that his mother saved the galaxy and his father is the "savior" of the Belt, so he's all" I need a rep, I need to be bad ass & famous". It's really revealing that TBS feels threatened by his own son's ambition, what a (Big) POS he is.

Edited January 15, 2021 by Eulipian 5k
Jump! RIP EVH

[MissLucas]

I really don't think this was a ruse devised by Filip and Naomi. When TLS noticed what Cyn had been looking at at his monitor (Naomi in front of the airlock), he was shocked and followed Cyn. Had he been in on the plan he would have tried to create a distraction. It also looked as if Naomi was  acting on the spur of the moment and did some quick thinking on her way off the bridge. Her conversation with Cyn might have given her the idea and of course she knew where the First Aid kit was (to get the hyperoxygenated blood).

But I agree that the protomolecule is not destroyed. There's an ominous message about news from Medina Station at the end that TBS reacts to with 'about time'. Got to be more than just casual chatter on the SoS.

[Holmbo]

One of the torpedoes the zmeya shot away probably contained the pm and it was sent to a different ship.

[Eulipian 5k]

The thing about Naomi is that TBS was right when he said leaving is what she does best. She left the Roci crew several times. Her “thunderhead of judgement” gathered over Holden just like it did over young Marco, and she left. (But I love her anyway.)

Amos felt the same hurt Cyn did when she went to the Behemoth. I notice Holden is now his moral touchstone and not Naomi.

Edited January 16, 2021 by Eulipian 5k
Clouds

[AudienceofOne]

42 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

The thing about Naomi is that TBS was right when he said leaving is what she does best.

It's a hard habit to break. Once you start doing it, it's not easy to stop. And I imagine there's a part of her that's scared of getting that emotionally dependent on someone again. 

[Holmbo]

1 hour ago, Eulipian 5k said:

The thing about Naomi is that TBS was right when he said leaving is what she does best. She left the Roci crew several times. Her “thunderhead of judgement” gathered over Holden just like it did over young Marco, and she left. (But I love her anyway.)

Amos felt the same hurt Cyn did when she went to the Behemoth. I notice Holden is now his moral touchstone and not Naomi.

Yeah, I think the first time, at Ganymede, it was probably cause he reminded her too much of Marco. Having causes without caring who gets in the way.

The second time it seemed more nostalgia for her old life. Marco had kinda soured it for her but Holden made her feel she could work for something bigger without being a bad person. 

48 minutes ago, AudienceofOne said:

It's a hard habit to break. Once you start doing it, it's not easy to stop. And I imagine there's a part of her that's scared of getting that emotionally dependent on someone again. 

Now that we've seen her history with Marco it fits with some of her hang-ups to me. She's very bad at discussions, not able to share her reasoning or feelings for her stanse. Probably cause years with Marco taught her that any feeling or explanation is just a weapon the other part will use against you to win the argument. .

Combined with her not being that in touch with her feelings probably.

Edited January 16, 2021 by Holmbo

[MissLucas]

Interesting discussion about Naomi - it fits with what she told TLS:

Walking away... is the only choice anyone ever has.

 

[Eulipian 5k]

9 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Walking away... is the only choice anyone ever has.

Add Drummer to the list of family our Naomi walked away from.

[edhopper]

Got very bored with the N M F stuff. I can predict will see Holden having the Rocci ready to end Marcos and Naomi stopping him because of Filip, and the result will be more and more innocent dead.

[Netfoot]

2 hours ago, edhopper said:

I can predict will see Holden having the Rocci ready to end Marcos and Naomi stopping him because of Filip, and the result will be more and more innocent dead.

Or: To save the lives of innocents, TBS must be destroyed, and the TSoS must be blown up in order to do it. Naomi ends up with her finger on the trigger, and is forced by her conscience to fire, and accept the collateral damage of killing everyone else on TSoS, including TLS.

[edhopper]

3 hours ago, Netfoot said:

Or: To save the lives of innocents, TBS must be destroyed, and the TSoS must be blown up in order to do it. Naomi ends up with her finger on the trigger, and is forced by her conscience to fire, and accept the collateral damage of killing everyone else on TSoS, including TLS.

That would be different, in a good way.

[whiporee]

I don't think there's any shot at redemption for Fillip. Dude did a full-arm slap on his mother, agreed to let her be murdered, agreed to let her own ship be used to kill her other family, left a crew member to die, either ordered or actually pulled the trigger, killing the research crew and aided in killing millions (if not billions) of people in the asteroid attacks. There isn't a coming back from that.

Clarrisa killed a guy, tried to kill Holden, was willing to kill others but failed and then went to prison. That can be redeemed. Naomi as a child write the program that blew up a ship, killing people. That can be redeemed because her repentance cost her her child. The show is certainly okay with grey characterizations. But Fillips isn't grey. He's deep in the bad spectrum, and there's no way to pull him out. His best case is to vanish; TPTB won't leave him on our screens or in our stories, because from an audience perspective, there's no redeeming someone who full-out slaps their mom. 

[JZL]

10 hours ago, whiporee said:

I don't think there's any shot at redemption for Fillip. Dude did a full-arm slap on his mother, agreed to let her be murdered, agreed to let her own ship be used to kill her other family, left a crew member to die, either ordered or actually pulled the trigger, killing the research crew and aided in killing millions (if not billions) of people in the asteroid attacks. There isn't a coming back from that.

Clarrisa killed a guy, tried to kill Holden, was willing to kill others but failed and then went to prison. That can be redeemed. Naomi as a child write the program that blew up a ship, killing people. That can be redeemed because her repentance cost her her child. The show is certainly okay with grey characterizations. But Fillips isn't grey. He's deep in the bad spectrum, and there's no way to pull him out. His best case is to vanish; TPTB won't leave him on our screens or in our stories, because from an audience perspective, there's no redeeming someone who full-out slaps their mom. 

It wasn't just a guy, she blew up a whole ship and tried to pin it on Holden. 

[AnimeMania]

Filip said this episode was so good it would make you slap your mama!

[Holmbo]

6 hours ago, JZL said:

It wasn't just a guy, she blew up a whole ship and tried to pin it on Holden. 

Yeah but I think it was an unmanned ship. Just the guy she stuffed in the locker.

[JZL]

13 hours ago, Holmbo said:

Yeah but I think it was an unmanned ship. Just the guy she stuffed in the locker.

https://expanse.fandom.com/wiki/Seung_Un

According to that the ship was severely damaged, the crew dumped the core and evacuated.  Re-watching, the ship is merely damaged; I thought it had been obliterated.  Drummer just says it was "blown to scrap." 

Hmmmmm.

So Clarissa not quite as bad as I thought-- a murderer as opposed to a mass-murderer (and perhaps merely luckily so).

Edit: Plus, as said in the Gaugamela thread, she kinda did help save the whole solar system back on the bridge of the Behemoth.

Speaking of which, what's going on with the ole girl?  Still minding the ring?

Edited January 18, 2021 by JZL

[ICantDoThatDave]

On 1/13/2021 at 9:15 AM, shrewd.buddha said:

But lately it feels as if the episodes are 85% talking and 15% action (if that).

This whole season has felt like that. Other than The One Big Thing that happened halfway through, nothing really happened this season. Just a whole lot of people standing around talking. If they could have condensed the whole season down to one episode, it could have been a really exciting first episode of an actual, interesting season.

[Eulipian 5k]

18 hours ago, ICantDoThatDave said:

Other than The One Big Thing that happened halfway through, nothing really happened this season. Just a whole lot of people standing around talking. If they could have condensed the whole season down to one episode, it could have been a really exciting first episode of an actual, interesting season.

Even a paranoid, psychotic computer felt a need to "run a crew psychological report", HAL. 👨🏽‍🚀

In five seasons if we had no character building moments this would have been a video game, not an adult sci fi thriller. Does an asteroid count as one big thing? Fred Johnson is pretty big in the show for 4 seasons, Nancy Gao was a big thing in season 4. Three major NE coast cities are a big thing, and so's the fall out, IMHO. I heard they did a lot of condensing to whittle 6 books into the show that has kept the Scrmg Frhwks hooked.

[steelyis]

On 1/17/2021 at 11:42 PM, AnimeMania said:

Filip said this episode was so good it would make you slap your mama!

 

Absolutely not.

[Clanstarling]

On 1/13/2021 at 12:38 PM, tennisgurl said:

Holden and his "new crew" are fun though, and I really like how they have used Monica this season. They could have made her an annoying journalist who gets in the way of things, especially when she was first introduced as seemingly trying to make the crew look bad in the documentary she was making, but she is actually quite helpful and resourceful, and really does care about funding the truth. I also liked the talk Holden had about Fred with Bull, it was quite interesting. I already miss Fred. 

I agree - she's always been just annoying, but this season she is smart and cooperative. I'm enjoying her more this way.

On 1/13/2021 at 4:03 PM, Gillian Rosh said:

I LOVED that battle between the Rocinante and the Zmeya. Bull did some fancy flying. But now I am wondering if the protomolecule was even on the Zmeya, or if there was a handoff to the Pella or another ship in Marco's fleet.

I figured it was too easy - that protomolecule is still out there somewhere.

On 1/14/2021 at 11:52 AM, Eulipian 5k said:

Didn't Naomi treat Holden and Miller after  "we just got hit with a massive dose of radiation ...We're dead.", way back in season one? I'm sure many daredevil rock hoppers have done this kind of  EVA before, (cough, cough Bizzy Bitiko).

She did - but their exposure was due to something else, as I recall (vaguely). And Holden is still taking meds to stop tumors from growing.

On 1/14/2021 at 12:33 PM, WatchrTina said:

So . . . assuming that Namoi DOES make it to the other ship and DOES get in through an airlock (how?) and DOES regain consciousness after being exposed to the vacuum of space (complete with broken eye blood vessels) -- what's to stop TeamMarco from just fetching her back again?  She's not going to be able to leap to her feet and jump into the pilot's chair.

If she makes it, I would guess that the rigged ship is disabled in some way she can't easily fix (or at least in a way Marco thinks she can't fix - he doesn't really know her anymore). So even if they think she made it to the ship alive, I think Marco would just think of it as killing two birds with one stone.

 

[ahisma]

Jesus, Marco is just a monster on every level. I’m glad Naomi’s off his ship just so we won’t have to spend time with him anymore, other than his occasional megalomaniacal appearances on a view screen.