S05.E22: Reunion Part 2

[OnceSane]

Part 2 of the reunion.

Airs October 26, 2020.

[Milan]

Captain Sandy: Blah Blah Blah......maritime law....BLAH BLAH BLAH.......backstab backstab...BLAH BLAH BLAH

Malia: Yes Captain........suck suck suck.......you are right captain...........suck suck suck.....swallow..........maritime law....blah blah blah.......suck suck....

 

Just can not stand these two........the snake and the snitch....

[pieinmyeye]

Shut up, Malaria. If you’re so knowledgeable about medications why don’t you go be a pharmacist? Idiot.

[FlyingEgret]

Was Malia already promoted to Capt?

[PaperTree]

OK now I'm smoking a bowl.  Fuck you Mal-ia

[FlyingEgret]

Also, if the law is so cut and dry why would Malia need to check with Production before reporting the drugs? 

[Mr. Miner]

Sandy’s right, “Jess you should just stop talking”.

[pieinmyeye]

Who outside the group gives two shits what kind of pen it was?

[PaperTree]

Alex's face plants are the best!  

[65mickey]

So Malia is not going to be asked how she she come to have the Valium and pen or did I miss this?

[PaperTree]

Mal-ia the snake, loving her asshole Tom and stupid Sandy too.

[nytonc]

So Malaria and/or Sandy, Queens of Maritime Law, said that anything that alters your state of awareness is forbidden. What about all the alcohol this bunch of drunks pour down their gullets when they have a night off?  Even if they’re between charters, there could be an emergency on board. What happens then?  Are Malaria’s superpowers immune to alcohol?  Will she save the boat from incarceration? 

Jess, shut the fuck up. You’re a moron. 

5 hours ago, Milan said:

Captain Sandy: Blah Blah Blah......maritime law....BLAH BLAH BLAH.......backstab backstab...BLAH BLAH BLAH

Malia: Yes Captain........suck suck suck.......you are right captain...........suck suck suck.....swallow..........maritime law....blah blah blah.......suck suck....

 

Just can not stand these two........the snake and the snitch....

Post of the decade!!

[PaperTree]

4 minutes ago, nytonc said:

Jess, shut the fuck up. You’re a moron. 

Not a Jess fan at all. but I thought she was on point calling out Sandy and Mal-ia.

[PaperTree]

It's a shame Aesha's feed is so bad.  Jess is a moron.

[Emmeline]

I thought Malia previously said she and Tom broke up because he was cheating?

[pieinmyeye]

Here we go with Assgate again.

[biakbiak]

2 minutes ago, Emmeline said:

I thought Malia previously said she and Tom broke up because he was cheating?

This was filmed before they broke up the last time. 

[Lassus]

This is hilarious.

I dunno.

I work in transportation, I have a boss, and I am in control of safety and drug testing and reasonable suspicion protocols.  If I don't follow said protocols, I'm shown the door.  I think that while Sandy is a bad Captain, I think that people freaking out over her and Malia's actions are pretty lame.

Even IF all this Maritime Law crap is horseshit (how the fuck would I know?), they work for a company and have bosses and are ON CAMERA.  

As was asked, WTF was Sandy supposed to do instead?

[Emmeline]

6 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

This was filmed before they broke up the last time. 

Oh, and he said he had been faithful during their 5 months apart.  

[esco1822]

9 minutes ago, Lassus said:

As was asked, WTF was Sandy supposed to do instead?

The same thing Captain Lee did when Kat handed over her unregistered anti-anxiety meds mid charter—make a note of it, give her back her meds and get back to driving the boat. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[AttackTurtle]

Honestly, if Hannah had to be fired (which I highly doubt), that’s one thing....it was how Sandy followed her off the boat and berated her and swore at her that got to me.  And then just her handling of it since then has been gross.  I quit watching after the Hannah debacle.  I caught just enough of the reunion to remind myself why I’d earlier quit the show.  I’m guilty of having never liked Sandy.  I prefer captains stay behind the scenes, but I still have the original Below Deck.

[njbchlover]

1 hour ago, PaperTree said:

Alex's face plants are the best!  

And, also his popcorn eating!!!  I love Alex!! 

Although he's too nice and drama-free to be on this show.  Can you imagine a season with Alex and Colin as deck crew?  It would probably be a lot of laughs!  

[Pop Tart]

45 minutes ago, Emmeline said:

Oh, and he said he had been faithful during their 5 months apart.

Malia’s face when he claimed that did not look like she believed him. When she was on WWHL she said they’d broken up because he cheated on her. Andy commented about how they were so lovey-dovey at the reunion. I didn’t see that tonight. When Andy asked if they were together Malia hesitated a long time then said they didn’t know or something like that. I think she knew or strongly suspected that he’d cheated on her.

And I’m mean enough that I was enjoying how she was squirming there. No amount of maritime law speechifying will make me be on her side.

I think Jess, for all that she’s not super quick with a comeback, is smarter than I’ve given her credit for. Though they weren’t letting her speak, she did have fair points tonight. And I agree that she was gaslit by Rob, who is a lot sleazier than he was portrayed.

[njbchlover]

I'm still confused over the whole cabin trading situation.  Didn't Captain Sandy say cabin assignments are made by the first mate?  If so, then that guy, David, who kept being tagged as "first mate" in the Hannah firing scenes would have determined who sleeps with whom - NOT Malia!!  

And yet, again, Sandy tried to bullshit her way out of a bad situation.  

The whole thing with Hannah and her Valium just went on for waaay too long, with no real resolution.  Andy doubled down on Bravo's and the production company's defense of Sandy and Malia's underhanded behavior.  Malia should get a tattoo that says "maritime law" so she'll always remember it.   I still think they were both very disrespectful to Hannah in that situation.  Malia is a sneaky opportunist and Sandy just went way too overboard in her handling of the "firing".  No matter how many times they say it, I think that is was "personal" - they just didn't like Hannah.  And, I'm not a big fan of hers, either, but she deserves to be treated fairly.

I also can't believe that you are not even allowed to take an Advil PM.  Advil PM contains mostly melatonin, which is a natural sleep aid.  Would Hannah have been allowed to take melatonin because it's more natural?  

Bugsy was annoying about all of this, chiming in, but she did raise a good point - if Hannah had only registered her Valium with the bridge (aka-Sandy), none of this would have been an issue.   She also raised a very good point that seemed to annoy both Sandy and Malia - that if the medication is registered and everyone is aware of it, you can still work while taking it.  

Tom already Checkett'd out by the time of the reunion.  He was very cagey and sounded less than truthful when he said he was faithful to Malia while away from her (and I guess we all know now that he was lying).  Malia also knew he was lying at that point - it was written all over her face.  "We're trying to figure it out right now" - nice way of Tom saying "I have to be here to do this friggin' reunion, and this is the last place I want to be."  Tom did not want to do the show in the first place, that much was obvious.

Speaking of Tom - again, Sandy bullshits her way through a bad decision.  She only just got done telling Kiko that he was too emotional to be a super-yacht chef, but praised Tom's emotional outbursts as the mark of a perfectionist chef.  Which is it?  She talks out of both sides of her mouth so much it is hard to figure out.

I really don't care about Rob and Jess - just two really screwed up people who only proceeded to screw each other up even more.  They're both nasty, imo.  I'm sorry that I actually kind of liked him at first.  That was a pretty screwed up DM that Rob sent to Aesha.  

Lastly, I was disappointed that we didn't get to hear Sandy, Tom, Rob and Jess say what their high and low point of the season was.  I was curious to hear what they each had to say.

 

Edited October 27, 2020 by njbchlover

[Sage47]

Sandy, Malia and Bugsy are self-righteous AF. The little smirks, the eye rolling, the holier-than-thou attitude....they are all disgusting. Especially Sandy & Malia. 

I loved when Hannah told Malia to shut it. 

I hope to never hear Malia’s voice utter “the safety of this vessel” again in my lifetime. She is such a dork. 

And Rob turned out to be a player, just as Jess feared. Big surprise. His flat, emotionless delivery has always creeped me out. 

If Malia had been the one with Valium, Capt Sandy wouldn’t have done a damn thing! And they sure as hell DID plan to replace Hannah & Kiko with Tom & Aesha, come ON! This show sucks. 

 

[nokat]

1 hour ago, PaperTree said:

Not a Jess fan at all. but I thought she was on point calling out Sandy and Mal-ia.

She didn't add to the pile-on of Hannah in the first part. I didn't mind her other than the Rob "romance."

 

[Sage47]

8 minutes ago, njbchlover said:

I'm still confused over the whole cabin trading situation.  Didn't Captain Sandy say cabin assignments are made by the first mate?  If so, then that guy, David, who kept being tagged as "first mate" in the Hannah firing scenes would have determined who sleeps with whom - NOT Malia!!  

And yet, again, Sandy tried to bullshit her way out of a bad situation.  

The whole thing with Hannah and her Valium just went on for waaay too long, with no real resolution.  Andy doubled down on Bravo's and the production company's defense of Sandy and Malia's underhanded behavior.  Malia should get a tattoo that says "maritime law" so she'll always remember it.   I still think they were both very disrespectful to Hannah in that situation.  Malia is a sneaky opportunist and Sandy just went way too overboard in her handling of the "firing".  No matter how many times they say it, I think that is was "personal" - they just didn't like Hannah.  And, I'm not a big fan of hers, either, but she deserves to be treated fairly.

I also can't believe that you are not even allowed to take an Advil PM.  Advil PM contains mostly melatonin, which is a natural sleep aid.  Would Hannah have been allowed to take melatonin because it's more natural?  

Bugsy was annoying about all of this, chiming in, but she did raise a good point - if Hannah had only registered her Valium with the bridge (aka-Sandy), none of this would have been an issue.   She also raised a very good point that seemed to annoy both Sandy and Malia - that if the medication is registered and everyone is aware of it, you can still work while taking it.  

Tom already Checkett'd out by the time of the reunion.  He was very cagey and sounded less than truthful when he said he was faithful to Malia while away from her (and I guess we all know now that he was lying).  Malia also knew he was lying at that point - it was written all over her face.  "We're trying to figure it out right now" - nice way of Tom saying "I have to be here to do this friggin' reunion, and this is the last place I want to be."  Tom did not want to do the show in the first place, that much was obvious.

Speaking of Tom - again, Sandy bullshits her way through a bad decision.  She only just got done telling Kiko that he was too emotional to be a super-yacht chef, but praised Tom's emotional outbursts as the mark of a perfectionist chef.  Which is it?  She talks out of both sides of her mouth so much it is hard to figure out.

I really don't care about Rob and Jess - just two really screwed up people who only proceeded to screw each other up even more.  They're both nasty, imo.  I'm sorry that I actually kind of liked him at first.  That was a pretty screwed up DM that Rob sent to Aesha.  

Lastly, I was disappointed that we didn't get to hear Sandy, Tom, Rob and Jess say what their high and low point of the season was.  I was curious to hear what they each had to say.

 

Excellent points!!

Yea, even Bugsy said anxiety & depression meds would be allowed so...what was it Sandy was babbling on about those rendering someone unable to help out in the event of a boat emergency??! Sure....(major eye roll)...

And yes! Ridiculing Kiko for his emotional outbursts but praising Tom for the same??! WTF?? Nasty bitch. Bravo is out of their minds if they sign Sandy up for another season (but...they have no morals and likely already have).

[65mickey]

When Captain Lee was on WWHL a few weeks ago Andy asked him about a crew member having prescription meds. on board. He sated that he had no problem with this if it was prescribed by a physician for the crew member. He went on to say that it as would be far worse to withhold meds from someone who needs them and that it wasn't his call as he wasn't a doctor. Now we have Malia and Sandy saying that you cannot work on a boat while taking Valium. Even Bugs said that was not correct but it needs to be logged in.  Why did Andy let Sandy get away with lying about the cabin assignments and also not questioning Malia and Sandy about how Malia came to be in possession of Hannah's Valium and CBD pen? Either Andy is a terrible moderator who can't remember to ask the questions that most viewers want answers for or he is trying real hard to protect Sandy and Malia. Probably both. 

[njbchlover]

17 minutes ago, 65mickey said:

When Captain Lee was on WWHL a few weeks ago Andy asked him about a crew member having prescription meds. on board. He sated that he had no problem with this if it was prescribed by a physician for the crew member. He went on to say that it as would be far worse to withhold meds from someone who needs them and that it wasn't his call as he wasn't a doctor. Now we have Malia and Sandy saying that you cannot work on a boat while taking Valium. Even Bugs said that was not correct but it needs to be logged in.  Why did Andy let Sandy get away with lying about the cabin assignments and also not questioning Malia and Sandy about how Malia came to be in possession of Hannah's Valium and CBD pen? Either Andy is a terrible moderator who can't remember to ask the questions that most viewers want answers for or he is trying real hard to protect Sandy and Malia. Probably both. 

YES!!!  This bothered me more than anything else!!  It should have been the first question that was asked!  Malia went through Hannah's personal belongings without Hannah's permission - I would think that would be against some maritime law or contract agreement.  And again, I will call bullshit on it not being personal.  Malia went into Hannah's purse/bag AFTER the fight about switching cabins, and snapped the photos then.  She didn't do it when Hannah was having her anxiety attack, when Hannah gave her permssion to look in her bag.  And couldn't find any Valium because it wasn't there then.  If I were Andy, my next questions would have been to both Malia and Hannah.  To Hannah, I would have asked where and when she got the prescription, and to Malia, I would have asked why she felt she had the right to go through Hannah's belongings to look for something after they had argued about the cabins. 

If Malia is back for another season, whoever is rooming with her should keep their personal belongings in a locked bag.  

Again, as you said, Andy is terrible when he moderates - he doesn't ever ask the obvious questions!  So frustrating.  

[endure]

4 hours ago, PaperTree said:

Not a Jess fan at all. but I thought she was on point calling out Sandy and Mal-ia.

And the asshole that is Rob, he really screwed her around imo

[endure]

Hannah was a total class act and she looked gorgeous too!

[endure]

Everyone, including Andy and Alex and especially Sandy, Malia, Bugs and Rob got on my nerves tonight, except Hannah and Aeysha.

[endure]

Malia, did you have to look around for the items for your photo shoot or did you just see all that stuff sitting there waiting for you come by and and capture a photo?

[antfitz]

11 hours ago, Milan said:

Captain Sandy: Blah Blah Blah......maritime law....BLAH BLAH BLAH.......backstab backstab...BLAH BLAH BLAH

Malia: Yes Captain........suck suck suck.......you are right captain...........suck suck suck.....swallow..........maritime law....blah blah blah.......suck suck....

 

Just can not stand these two........the snake and the snitch....

EXACTLY!  If either one returns I will not watch. Malia likes to play the coy little sweet thing,  And I think Sandy wants to get no pants. Maybe not, she may just like all the suck up action.

6 hours ago, FlyingEgret said:

Also, if the law is so cut and dry why would Malia need to check with Production before reporting the drugs? 

EXACTLY 

1 hour ago, endure said:

Malia, did you have to look around for the items for your photo shoot or did you just see all that stuff sitting there waiting for you come by and and capture a photo?

Lol I think she had to dig. She arranged them so well.

[antfitz]

1 hour ago, endure said:

Hannah was a total class act and she looked gorgeous too!

Yes.  I thought maybe she had the baby already because she looked great. 

1 hour ago, endure said:

And the asshole that is Rob, he really screwed her around imo

Yes,  She didn't desert Hannah just because the others did. And I don't believe captain Sandy didn't want Tom right from the get go. I think that she knew in she just want to get rid of kiko for some reason.  This season sucked.

[antfitz]

3 hours ago, njbchlover said:

YES!!!  This bothered me more than anything else!!  It should have been the first question that was asked!  Malia went through Hannah's personal belongings without Hannah's permission - I would think that would be against some maritime law or contract agreement.  And again, I will call bullshit on it not being personal.  Malia went into Hannah's purse/bag AFTER the fight about switching cabins, and snapped the photos then.  She didn't do it when Hannah was having her anxiety attack, when Hannah gave her permssion to look in her bag.  And couldn't find any Valium because it wasn't there then.  If I were Andy, my next questions would have been to both Malia and Hannah.  To Hannah, I would have asked where and when she got the prescription, and to Malia, I would have asked why she felt she had the right to go through Hannah's belongings to look for something after they had argued about the cabins. 

If Malia is back for another season, whoever is rooming with her should keep their personal belongings in a locked bag.  

Again, as you said, Andy is terrible when he moderates - he doesn't ever ask the obvious questions!  So frustrating.  

 Bugsy even said that she has mental issues and she takes medication. Nobody went to her things or talked about it. I have to get bugsy credit she has not been back stabbing Hannah. It really all boils down to that captain Sandy never liked Hannah much. This was her opportunity to get rid of her and bring bugsy back as chiefs stew.   I have nothing against bugsy. I hate Sandy and Malignant Malia. 

[antfitz]

5 hours ago, njbchlover said:

I'm still confused over the whole cabin trading situation.  Didn't Captain Sandy say cabin assignments are made by the first mate?  If so, then that guy, David, who kept being tagged as "first mate" in the Hannah firing scenes would have determined who sleeps with whom - NOT Malia!!  

And yet, again, Sandy tried to bullshit her way out of a bad situation.  

The whole thing with Hannah and her Valium just went on for waaay too long, with no real resolution.  Andy doubled down on Bravo's and the production company's defense of Sandy and Malia's underhanded behavior.  Malia should get a tattoo that says "maritime law" so she'll always remember it.   I still think they were both very disrespectful to Hannah in that situation.  Malia is a sneaky opportunist and Sandy just went way too overboard in her handling of the "firing".  No matter how many times they say it, I think that is was "personal" - they just didn't like Hannah.  And, I'm not a big fan of hers, either, but she deserves to be treated fairly.

I also can't believe that you are not even allowed to take an Advil PM.  Advil PM contains mostly melatonin, which is a natural sleep aid.  Would Hannah have been allowed to take melatonin because it's more natural?  

Bugsy was annoying about all of this, chiming in, but she did raise a good point - if Hannah had only registered her Valium with the bridge (aka-Sandy), none of this would have been an issue.   She also raised a very good point that seemed to annoy both Sandy and Malia - that if the medication is registered and everyone is aware of it, you can still work while taking it.  

Tom already Checkett'd out by the time of the reunion.  He was very cagey and sounded less than truthful when he said he was faithful to Malia while away from her (and I guess we all know now that he was lying).  Malia also knew he was lying at that point - it was written all over her face.  "We're trying to figure it out right now" - nice way of Tom saying "I have to be here to do this friggin' reunion, and this is the last place I want to be."  Tom did not want to do the show in the first place, that much was obvious.

Speaking of Tom - again, Sandy bullshits her way through a bad decision.  She only just got done telling Kiko that he was too emotional to be a super-yacht chef, but praised Tom's emotional outbursts as the mark of a perfectionist chef.  Which is it?  She talks out of both sides of her mouth so much it is hard to figure out.

I really don't care about Rob and Jess - just two really screwed up people who only proceeded to screw each other up even more.  They're both nasty, imo.  I'm sorry that I actually kind of liked him at first.  That was a pretty screwed up DM that Rob sent to Aesha.  

Lastly, I was disappointed that we didn't get to hear Sandy, Tom, Rob and Jess say what their high and low point of the season was.  I was curious to hear what they each had to say.

 

 You are so right about Sandy and the chefs. She just wanted Tom and didn't want kiko. I think the same thing with Hannah she wanted bugsy and didn't want Hannah. I thinks she likes to play favorites and doesn't get along well with people ....something she should have learned in kindergarten. I didn't mind jess and rob because at least it took it off those pills and the malea and Sandy bullshit.  You did notice that malea didn't answer whether she was faithful to Tom. I don't think she was. I think that's why she avoided answering. 

Please Bravo don't have Malia or Sandy on again!

Edited October 27, 2020 by antfitz

[antfitz]

They keep talking maritime law. If it was a strict law I agree with jess that they should have made it more obvious from the start.  Also all this talk about you have to be with it and be able to work  Without any mental changes.  And yet they get stinkin drunk and you know the next day are not able to work and perform the way they should, but that is never talked about. 

[lcarolynl]

I couldn’t stand this reunion. I changed the channel five minutes in (!) and came back 28 minutes into the show. I was happy to se Aesha. Who would have believed she would save the season?

I understand they are filming next season and Sandy is back. I won’t be watching. I’ve weaned myself off all the housewife shows at this point and the BD Series seems to have veered away from what I liked about it to begin with. I am repulsed by Sandy and Malia, they disgust me, and there is no fun in that for me.

I’m counting on Captain Lee to have learned from last season about monitoring his crew's work environment and I can’t imagine a repeat of that toxic environment with Eddie back.

its too bad, I used to watch every BD incarnation and episode but I’ve got better things to do that spend time getting repulsed and disgusted.

I never said it before so I’ll add it here, Alex is a sincerely nice, good guy but I think he’s not very smart. I still loved his vibe on the boat, oh, excuse me, on the SUPER YACHT!!!

Malia’s face when Andy asked if she or Tom cheated. Hahahahaha!

I thought Jess looked great and I love how she spoke up throughout the show.

[Duke2801]

5 hours ago, Sage47 said:

 

If Malia had been the one with Valium, Capt Sandy wouldn’t have done a damn thing! And they sure as hell DID plan to replace Hannah & Kiko with Tom & Aesha, come ON! This show sucks. 

 

I was REALLY hoping that one of the viewer question for Tom was going to be about the “sick uncle” he was supposedly en route to visit when he was oh-so conveniently coming to visit Malia when they oh-so conveniently needed a new chef.  Like, are they really trying to get us to believe that the timing of it was just one big coincidence??!

[Lassus]

2 hours ago, antfitz said:

9 hours ago, FlyingEgret said:

Also, if the law is so cut and dry why would Malia need to check with Production before reporting the drugs? 

EXACTLY 

Well, I'm sure they sign a LOT of papers before going on camera.  I doubt this was "need" as much as "want" due to said papers.

[nokat]

Every time I think I can't be disgusted any more by Sandy, Malia, or Andy, I find I'm wrong. These people are sorry excuses for human beings.

 

Sandy, you trout mouth, frog in dentures piece of crap, just shut up. You ruined this show for me, you see you next tuesday.

 

Edited October 27, 2020 by nokat

[65mickey]

I think Andy knows which questions not to ask and he doesn't ask them. He doesn't want to put Sandy on the spot.  She is one of his favorites and he doesn't want to run the risk of having her look bad. That is why he let her get away with repeating  untruths and half truths about this whole firing and "drugs" thing. He never once challenged her about Malia being first officer, drugs on board and no prescription. Even Malia was standing firm on Hannah not having a prescription for Valium and hinted that she bought it in Spain without a prescription. If there were no witnesses to Malia going through Hannah's bag looking for drugs Hannah could have very well accused Malia of planting the CBD pin.  

Over the weekend Bravo ran the first season that Sandy was captain. Sandy never liked Hannah. I think she saw her chance to get rid of Hannah  this season and she took. Oh and Malia getting death threats please give me break!

[Lassus]

17 minutes ago, 65mickey said:

Oh and Malia getting death threats please give me break!

Have you met the internet?

[65mickey]

Yes I have and I am sure that she got nasty comments but did anyone threaten to kill her over this? We know that she has a penchant for twisting the truth. 

Edited October 27, 2020 by 65mickey

[Booger666]

UO - I have no issue with Malia telling about Hannah’s drugs.  I think they are both terrible and if the situation were reversed I’d have no issue if Hannah did the same to Malia.  I take issue with how Sandy handled it as she was awful to Hannah.

[mytmo]

As management I would be more concerned about a chef throwing things around the galley and damaging property along with the obligatory drunk fests.

Malia is more concerned about having a story line than being truthful about the relationship with Tom.  Tom's just towing the line - maybe to get that last paycheck or to be asked on another season.  Not sure if he has the famewhore bug as bad as Malia.  

Edited October 27, 2020 by mytmo

[gaPeach]

11 hours ago, njbchlover said:

Speaking of Tom - again, Sandy bullshits her way through a bad decision.  She only just got done telling Kiko that he was too emotional to be a super-yacht chef, but praised Tom's emotional outbursts as the mark of a perfectionist chef.  Which is it?  She talks out of both sides of her mouth so much it is hard to figure out.

I had to come her and say just this.  She flip flopped on what makes a good Chef.  She just needed to come clean and say Kiko didn't kiss her ass so he had to go.  

And I agree with poster upthread, the drug discussion went on way too long.  No one cares anymore!

[nokat]

3 hours ago, Lassus said:

Have you met the internet?

Unfortunately true. I dislike her but give her props because she was/is a good bosun, and will probably make a good captain. Death threats are ridiculous and should never be made. I tend to dislike liars, so it's why I had a strong opinion earlier. I couldn't even finish the episode.

 

Edited October 27, 2020 by nokat

[luvthepros]

14 hours ago, PaperTree said:

Alex's face plants are the best!  

Wasn't that Andy?