S10.E16: A Certain Doom

[nodorothyparker]

Airdate 2020.10.04

Quote

With the Whisperer War upon them, the collective communities must come together and possibly sacrifice all they have to find a way to silence the Whisperers once and for all.

 

MOD NOTE: As always, news of cast comings and goings is consider a spoiler. Even if it's been in the press. If you haven't seen it happen onscreen yet, you can't discuss it here. Nor do we discuss illegally leaked episodes in episode threads.

[CletusMusashi]

Well, here we go again. The worst part is that I'll have to rewatch "The Tower," too, because it's been so long.

[Morrigan2575]

I thought they were kicking off a new season...now have to wait to 2021? 😒

I liked it. It was nice to see Maggie again. 

Lydia and Carol being friends/family was cool, Daryl and his 2 girls.

The image of the Walkers going over the cliff was really cool and, I loved the use of Burning Down the House.

Carol standing at the edge of the cliff was a beautiful shot and I'm assuming metaphorical as she's been on that cliff since Henry died. It was nice to see Lydia pull her back (physically and metaphorically).

I don't hate Negan, I find him to be an entertaining asshole but, I don't want him to turn "hero"/good....his role is anytihero or villain not good guy...he should be the one everyone hates and hates on but, has to put up with andx sometimes they like in spite of themselves.

Good episode, it was tense but, not overly action packed. I did like a lot of choices they made and got a good chuckle out of the Walker's being used as Zombie Shields.

[AngelaHunter]

4 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

Well, here we go again. The worst part is that I'll have to rewatch "The Tower," too, because it's been so long.

So did you actually do it? If so, I salute you.

Tonight's ep... I'm not sure what I even saw. Beta got stabbed in the eyeballs. Connie came back to world of the living. It was raining zombies and Carol adopted Lydia. Good luck, Lydia! But the storm troopers now - are we sure that wasn't some other show?

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Lackluster episode.

 

[Morrigan2575]

10 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

was raining zombies and Carol adopted Lydia

I think Lydia adopted Carol

[Madding crowd]

Happy it was back but wonder if this show will get lost in the shuffle between the teenage version and whatever else is coming up. Liked The Talking Heads and it was a good visual of the walkers going off the cliff.

Still wonder how the Whisperers eat, go the bathroom and plot out evil while walking miles shuffling with the walkers. Didn’t think I missed Maggie but happy to see any of the OG’s.

[Iguessnot]

They just can't help themselves. The overhead shot of a million of walkers made things a farce. Those were unbelievable logistics. And then the massive horde supposedly walks off the cliff in the short time it takes for Lydia and Carol to have a heart to heart right in the middle of this procession. 

[AngelaHunter]

So after Daryl killed Beta and the horde pulls his mask off, Negan says to Daryl, "Holeee shit! (I forget but I'm assuming he said that)Do you know who he was?" Are we supposed to know who he was? I remember once he was playing some music on a record player or something but I have no recollection of who he was supposed to be.

Probably an unpopular opinion but I found Beta more scary than I ever did Negan. I know he made no sense whatsoever, but neither has Negan and I'm pretty sure the scariness or lack of is directly related to the talking. Negan never ever STFU and no one who runs off at the mouth that way can ever be frightening or intimidating. You can only keep up fear for so long, then it fades - in Negan's case - to mind-numbing boredom or maybe even a wish that he would kill you and put you out of your misery.

At least Beta had one really great scene when he was rampaging through Alexandria, which was right up there with the Jesus in the Graveyard scene. Negan, IMO, has never had a single standout moment and my only reaction to him is the dull feeling of anticipatory dread when he appears and I know we're in for a string of piss nuts dick shit nutsack juvenile swear words and stupidity.

[Mr. Sparkle]

1 minute ago, AngelaHunter said:

So after Daryl killed Beta and the horde pulls his mask off, Negan says to Daryl, "Holeee shit! (I forget but I'm assuming he said that)Do you know who he was?" Are we supposed to know who he was? I remember once he was playing some music on a record player or something but I have no recollection of who he was supposed to be.

He was supposed to be a famous country music star. We see his albums and a poster a few episodes back. 

Mild comic spoiler:

Spoiler

In the comic, he's a famous basketball player. 

 

[AngelaHunter]

Thank you, Superclam. I swear I can't retain anything I see on this show now. In the first few seasons I remembered everything.

 

[Straycat80]

So right before the storm troopers pooped out at Eugene, King Ez, Princess and Yumiko (sp?), they were planning on continuing their search for Stephanie. I can’t believe they would go along with Eugene on that, I thought the King was dying. 
I hope we are done for good with the Whisperers now. I think so, so I am looking forward to the next season. 

[CletusMusashi]

This is at least the third major zombie franchise in the last decade that has done the "Leading a big herd over a cliff" schtick.

And, frankly, both other franchises did it much better.

[MrPissyPuppy]

3 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

This is at least the third major zombie franchise in the last decade that has done the "Leading a big herd over a cliff" schtick.

And, frankly, both other franchises did it much better.

We were nowhere near the Grand Canyon! 

[Nashville]

27 minutes ago, MrPissyPuppy said:

We were nowhere near the Grand Canyon! 

What I wouldn’t give for a giant cheese wheel right about now....

[BellyLaughter]

That’s a lot of stinking, contaminated walker bodies to clog up you river system.... and biggest source of water? No?

I’m finding Negan more acceptable and I really don’t know how I feel about that..... god damn you Jeffrey Dean Morgan you charming, lovable human! 

Edited October 5, 2020 by BellyLaughter

[nodorothyparker]

This would have been a so-so season ender at best, even if they hadn't made us wait six months for it. Schmaltzy wrapup with a simplistic resolution of a long drawnout storyline, a couple of sort of tie ups of loose ends, and now look. Stormtroopers! For some reason that we won't get into until next season, whenever that shows up. Knowing this show, we're probably about to next encounter a group of Star Wars cosplayers of the apocalypse. Too bad they just killed off their Chewbacca. 

My husband said a lot of the same things, that the aerial view of 10,000 zombies really didn't come anywhere close to matching what took the leisurely 5-minute stroll off the cliff. And that even so, unless it's one hell of a river you're eventually going to end up with a waterlogged zombie sludge pile that they'll just walk right over. He insists on being weirdly practical like that even when the subject is zombies.

I got a kick out of the never ending zombie parade led by a horse and wagon that was apparently blaring the same one Talking Heads song from midday until dark. And that they went for the oh, aren't they lovely falling just like snowflakes ending for the giant zombie horde. But seriously, how are they this far along in the ZA and still doing the overly dramatic someone must sacrifice themselves to lead them over thing? Obviously they went over the edge just fine on their own even with Carol and Lydia sitting right there there having yet another heart to heart and getting deep in their feelings. Bonding over a crazy dead woman is as good a reason as any, I guess.

Welcome back, Maggie. You showed up just in time for the transition from Negan redemption to Negan hero arc. Even though they were all standing around in the same general spot in the end, we'll have to wait until next season to see any acknowledgement of that.

[CletusMusashi]

Why would Maggie come back to these idiots?

[SharonH58]

Maggie's show she left for bombed.   I didn't miss her.  I was reminded how much I don't like Eugene and I don't like this crazy loud chick.  Who was the curly haired girl traveling with Carol who got killed?   When I saw Scott ( I think that is his name) I said Sasha's real husband must have a great contract.  He is still alive!   Is the masked person with Maggie going to turn out to be her son all grown up?

[nodorothyparker]

The curly haired woman was Beatrice, who I'm guessing most of us only know because Daryl pointedly namechecked her right before the scene cut to the Whisperer attacking her. She was apparently from Oceanside.

I am just now realizing they never identified Maggie's ninja sidekick, did they? Glenn and Maggie's kid should only be maybe two years older than Rick and Michonne's oddly unacknowledged kid and noticeably younger than Judith. I guess those kids are raising themselves now, or at least until cuddly Uncle Negan takes them all under his wing.

[BravoAddict72]

That was such an anti-climactic ending to Beta. No big fight or anything. This was a boring end to the whisperers.

[Persnickety1]

To think we waited six months for...that.  

No wonder it wasn't an extended episode.  

Well, I guess I should say thankfully it wasn't an extended episode.  It barely held my attention as it was.  Another 30 minutes probably would have rendered me comatose.  

In the end, all I got was finding out who the fuck was Beatrice.  

May she RIP alongside that other beloved character ripped from the viewers, Neil.  

[mightysparrow]

This was just sad.  Nothing made any fucking sense.  We were supposed to care about the deaths of characters that we've never seen before.   And people who have spent 10 YEARS in the ZA thought it was a good idea to splash a little bit of blood on themselves and then traipse around in the biggest herd of walkers ever.  I can see why the writers sent Michonne to Fantasy Island because she would never have gone for that kind of fuckery.  Speaking of Michonne, why did they bother getting her pregnant and going through all that 'I'm carrying Rick Grimes holy seed' bullshit if they are going to TOTALLY IGNORE RJ?  Let's not forget that wee Judith is SHANE'S kid.  When RJ is big enough, I want him to claim 'the hat' as HIS legacy.

The fact that they brought Maggie back (and that Lauren came back) shows just how desperate this show (and Lauren) is.  Oh no wait; the appearance of STORM TROOPERS at the end shows how desperate this show is.  The actors deserve awards for keeping a straight face. 

I was begging for Carol to jump off the cliff.  I was sick of her smug, self-pity years ago.  Lydia is the perfect 'daughter' for her.  My hope is that Lydia brings her two 'parents' together to make a happy family.  It would serve both characters right. 

It was nice to see Connie.  I just hope she snatches that grey-haired bitch bald when she sees her.   Too bad that she's being rescued by Virgil(?).  Hopefully picking up attractive Black women and dumping them on deserted islands isn't his 'thing'.

Good luck to this show if Norman, Melissa and Norman are going to be the leads. 

 

 

[Nashville]

Hope I’m not going out too far on a limb here, and maybe it’s just me - but I think I’m sensing a certain degree of overall negativity here....

[RedDelicious]

The highlight of the episode was Aaron giving the Mystery Ninja major WTF side eye.

[Mahamid Frauded Me]

What a let down...however I do love the Talking Heads, however they should have been blasting (Nothing but) Flowers song instead. 

How long was Maggie supposed to have been gone for ?  Don't tell me that ninja she brought with her is Baby Hershel now.  And seriously, storm troopers..wth

[CletusMusashi]

Stormtroopers aren't even that dangerous if you just run. It's not like they can hit anything.

They're about as effective as Rick attacking Negan.

Edited October 5, 2020 by CletusMusashi

[Persnickety1]

28 minutes ago, Mahamid Frauded Me said:

What a let down...however I do love the Talking Heads, however they should have been blasting (Nothing but) Flowers song instead. 

How long was Maggie supposed to have been gone for ?  Don't tell me that ninja she brought with her is Baby Hershel now.  And seriously, storm troopers..wth

I was hoping for Free Fallin' by Tom Petty during the zombie diving scene, but alas I was disappointed.  

[nodorothyparker]

Maggie never got a big sendoff as her departure happened entirely offscreen. After the six-year time jump after Rick "died," Jesus mentions that Maggie left him in charge at Hilltop at some point when she and then-baby Herschel took off with Georgie the records lady. That was seriously it. All we know is that it happened between Rick trip trip tripping off the bridge and when the Whisperers showed up. So last she knew, Negan was still rotting in Alexandria's one and only jail cell and not running around playing hero and being everybody's favorite babysitter.

 

3 minutes ago, Persnickety1 said:

I was hoping for Free Fallin' by Tom Petty during the zombie diving scene, but alas I was disappointed.  

That would have the best music choice ever. But we don't get to have nice things here.

[theredhead77]

I'll sit out here at my table for 1 and say I enjoyed my old Sunday night TV friend back on my screen. No, Beta didn't get a kick-ass huge fight send off but Beta is huge and any prolonged fighting would always increase the risk of him not being killed (except for you know, plot). 

I totally forgot this was just a single episode and now we have to wait but I sure can't wait to see how Maggie reacts to Negan being out and about and a "productive" member of society. 
 

[iMonrey]

That . . . didn't suck? I mean yeah I had to re-watch E15 to refresh my memory and figured out halfway through I needed closed captioning to understand whatever the hell Beta was mumbling through the whole damn episode, but once I got that squared away, I thought it OK. I guess I'm just happy the Whisperers thing is finally over. Good God, even Stormtroopers can't be as stupid a concept. Also, the six-month break or however long it was definitely helped.

There were definitely some things that were hard to follow though. Luke rigged this whole boombox setup and then from what I could gather the wagon was on the other side of the hoard. So they covered themselves with Walker guts and shuffled on out of there, but how did they get the equipment all the way through to the wagon? 

The logistics of some of this stuff just demonstrates that the show is biting off more than it can chew. The concepts are ambitious but they don't have the wherewithal to really pull them off half the time. It seems like we all noticed the conflict between the overhead shot of thousands of Walkers and the relatively few that went over the cliff, as another example.

From what I can gather the new spin-off is "Walking Dead: Teen Edition." You can't pay me enough to watch that.

[AngelaHunter]

7 hours ago, SharonH58 said:

Maggie's show she left for bombed.   I didn't miss her.

I feel a little bad for Lauren Cohan, who had to slink back to this disaster when she couldn't make it someplace else.

1 hour ago, theredhead77 said:

I sure can't wait to see how Maggie reacts to Negan being out and about and a "productive" member of society. 

And has access to more young girls.

 

2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I do have to agree with what has been said above, Beta's demise was much too quick. 

Shades of the Termites. After all the (seeming) years and years of suspense and build up it was over in minutes. Beta was such a threat and so hard to kill, yet he was dispatched so easily. It's like TPTB got bored of it all.

[Bulldog]

20 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

Carol adopted Lydia. Good luck, Lydia!

If anyone will need luck, its Lydia.  See Sophia, Lizzie, & Henry. 

18 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

This is at least the third major zombie franchise in the last decade that has done the "Leading a big herd over a cliff" schtick.

I just wonder how many times they will go to the "disguise the scent with guts" well. 

19 hours ago, Iguessnot said:

The overhead shot of a million of walkers made things a farce. Those were unbelievable logistics. And then the massive horde supposedly walks off the cliff in the short time it takes for Lydia and Carol to have a heart to heart right in the middle of this procession. 

So much this.  Even when they were shown falling, it was not at a rapid rate.  Certainly not fast enough for the numbers shown to go over the cliff. 

5 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I though she looked incredibly hot.

Wherever Maggie's been, they clearly have hair salons and spa treatments. 

4 hours ago, Mahamid Frauded Me said:

Don't tell me that ninja she brought with her is Baby Hershel now.

Isn't he supposed to be actually younger than Judith?  (Serious question, I've long since quit trying to make sense of the timeline on this show.) 

4 hours ago, Mahamid Frauded Me said:

I do love the Talking Heads, however they should have been blasting (Nothing but) Flowers song instead. 

I was kind of hoping for Walk This Way by Aerosmith    

[madmax]

While I can't say this was my favorite season finale, it wasn't the worst, either.  I'd put it somewhere in the bottom half.  Maybe I was expecting something major since we waited 5 months.

I was surprised that they remembered they could cover themselves with walker guts and walk among them.  They'd only done it a handful of times.  I did like Lydia pointing out the Whisperers in the horde so they could be dispatched as a sacrifice to the walker gods.  Why didn't Carol grab the bag when Oceanside chick (who we all knew would die because no one remembered her and she wasn't a major character) died?

No way that ginormous horde went off the cliff that quick.  They would have been there for days.  It's not like the walkers saw all their friends doing something and raced to do it too.  Kudos to whoever upthread said good luck to Lydia; she'll definitely need it if she's hanging with Carol.

Nod to the comics with the Storm Troopers, but I agree, it looked stupid.  I even thought so in the comics.

Ninja killer couldn't have been Hershel unless Maggie has some radioactive steroids wherever she's hanging now.

All in all, I liked it, didn't love it, which is kinda where I am on the whole WD series right now.  I gave up on Fear twice and watched the first half of the new one and said not for me, but I'll stick with WD until the end.

ETA:  I did like Beta's descent into madness, thinking all of the walkers were talking to him.

 

Edited October 6, 2020 by madmax
another thought

[AngelaHunter]

2 hours ago, madmax said:

Why didn't Carol grab the bag when Oceanside chick (who we all knew would die because no one remembered her and she wasn't a major character) died?

Daryl remembered her name! He was worried about the whereabouts of Beatrice, whoever she was. Daryl cared about poor, doomed, gone-too-soon whatshername. And I'm sure if anyone had asked him, Negan would have said he cared too. Very much, because that's the kind of guy he is. Probably would have given Beatrice a big hug and NO - he would NOT have tried to cop a feel

 

2 hours ago, madmax said:

I was surprised that they remembered they could cover themselves with walker guts and walk among them.

Negan and FP did it in that trailer, after Negan finished informing FP about how he rubbed one out in the very spot on which FP was sitting. News we needed to know.

[BellyLaughter]

20 hours ago, BravoAddict72 said:

That was such an anti-climactic ending to Beta. No big fight or anything. This was a boring end to the whisperers.

How were they able to beat The Whisperers in the middle of a giant horde of walkers without drawing attention to themselves or other Whis.... oh never mind. 
 

[tennisgurl]

Maybe its just me getting into the October spirit, maybe its because I actually missed this ridiculous show, but while this finale felt weirdly anti-climactic after everything and how long we have spent with the Whispers, I still thought it was more good than bad. It had some exciting fights, they used the whole Whispers concept to finally beat them, and while we didn't get a big Beta fight, him getting both of his eyes stabbed is decently cool. I do love the running thing of Beta having been famous back in the time before Zombies, its just so surreal. Like your getting your ass kicked by some giant psycho killer wearing dead skin on his face, and then you suddenly realize your about to be gutted by Toby Keith or something. 

So are these Stormtroopers connected to what is going on in the spin-off? 

I am still salty that Laurens show didn't last longer than a season, but I am excited to see Maggie reacting to Negan getting to wander around as a "productive member of society." She is going to totally lose it.

[heisenberg]

36 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I am excited to see Maggie reacting to Negan getting to wander around as a "productive member of society." She is going to totally lose it.

With this show you never know. 

She might find he is changed, she starts dating him, than they get married, make a child and call him Glenn.

[mightysparrow]

22 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

On a totally superficial note, I though she looked incredibly hot. 

Getting away from all of those fools is good for a girl's looks.  Her hair looked like she's been supporting herself and Herschel by doing shampoo commercials.

18 hours ago, iMonrey said:

From what I can gather the new spin-off is "Walking Dead: Teen Edition." You can't pay me enough to watch that.

I only lasted 10 minutes.

59 minutes ago, heisenberg said:

With this show you never know. 

She might find he is changed, she starts dating him, than they get married, make a child and call him Glenn.

THIS is exactly what I'm expecting.

[Bulldog]

7 minutes ago, mightysparrow said:

18 hours ago, iMonrey said:

From what I can gather the new spin-off is "Walking Dead: Teen Edition." You can't pay me enough to watch that.

I only lasted 10 minutes.

You made it 5 minutes longer than I did. 

[heisenberg]

10 minutes ago, mightysparrow said:

I only lasted 10 minutes.

Me too. 

[Gulftastic]

So, they can spot the Whisperers in the horde then pick them off with arrows, but can't find the extra tall Beta? 

It's hardly 'Where's Waldo?'.

Also 'tighten the herd..'. How would that work?

[Nashville]

7 minutes ago, Gulftastic said:

Also 'tighten the herd..'. How would that work?

Rejuvenation surgeries all around?

[CletusMusashi]

Pilates.

[meep.meep]

3 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

 

Daryl could have danced through the herd naked, and he wouldn't have bruised a testicle.

Excuse me but when discussing this show, you have to talk about nut sacks.

For a show that got famous by killing off main characters, they've sure gotten reluctant to do so in recent years.

But now that they finished the season, I'm done.

[Madding crowd]

Beta being s famous country star could have been interesting if they had shown more of his back story; it would have been something they hadn’t done before. I was still happy to have it back as it was my favorite show for years. I think my problem is the show keeps bringing on more and more new characters without giving us a chance to get to know them.

Edited October 6, 2020 by Madding crowd

[nodorothyparker]

4 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Daryl could have danced through the herd naked, and he wouldn't have bruised a testicle.

That wouldn't be nearly the draw it once might have been or AMC seems to still think it is.

But yeah, on this show it would be "nutsack," probably leading to Negan monologuing about "nut tapping" some more.

[AngelaHunter]

2 hours ago, Bulldog said:

You made it 5 minutes longer than I did. 

And you made it 5 minutes longer than I did. I caught a glimpse of it, I think, during a commercial FF. A bunch of teens looking like models but are, I'm sure, totally, like, so badass. I could be wrong though.

I'm glad that in Maggie's place far away they have a good store of skin-care/dental hygiene products and shampoo. Why would she leave THAT place?

 

Poor little no-mamma, no-papa RJ. No one seems to give a shit about him, including his own mom. Kid is going to have a complex.

[iMonrey]

Quote

After all the (seeming) years and years of suspense and build up it was over in minutes. Beta was such a threat and so hard to kill, yet he was dispatched so easily. It's like TPTB got bored of it all.

Same as me. But I for one have no qualms with the quick dispatch of Beta and the entire Whisperers concept along with him. I maintain they were the silliest bad guys the show ever came up with and I'm counting the junkyard people among them. It just never made any damn sense and if they'd have drug this out another season I wouldn't have come back for it. I'm perfectly happy to check out whatever they plan to do with these Stormtroopers but I couldn't have withstood another season of Whisperers. Gah.

[Samwise979]

As an agents of shield fan, my response to Daryl's "where's Beatrice and Carol" was, Beatrice? Who's Beatrice? (Then 5 seconds later) Piper! Nooooooo!!! 

Lol

What's up with the stormtroopers?