S02.E07: The Shillelagh

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Having lost her sense of identity, Betty can only see her own pain - and turn it outward.

Promo:

Original air date: 7/7/20

[Spartan Girl]

Betty really was her own worst enemy. Had she listened to her lawyers and friends and therapists and moved on with her life, instead of letting her obsessive hatred alienate herself from everyone that did care for her, she would have been a lot better off. 

Other than that nice moment with her and her friend dancing to Neil Diamond, talking about her stillbirth, she was long past the point of no return.

[Mrs. Hanson]

27 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Betty really was her own worst enemy. Had she listened to her lawyers and friends and therapists and moved on with her life, instead of letting her obsessive hatred alienate herself from everyone that did care for her, she would have been a lot better off. 

Other than that nice moment with her and her friend dancing to Neil Diamond, talking about her stillbirth, she was long past the point of no return.

I agree.  I felt for her friends at lunch when she showed up.  A perfectly lovely lunch and here comes Ms. Negative Buzzkill, dragging on Dan and Linda......AGAIN.  

Dan was convinced she would never kill the golden egg.  Guess again.

I am glad they did not show the actual killings - who knows they may show it next week in flashbacks.

[Annber03]

17 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Betty really was her own worst enemy. Had she listened to her lawyers and friends and therapists and moved on with her life, instead of letting her obsessive hatred alienate herself from everyone that did care for her, she would have been a lot better off. 

Other than that nice moment with her and her friend dancing to Neil Diamond, talking about her stillbirth, she was long past the point of no return.

Agreed. I liked that moment of her and her friend dancing it out and talking over things. She was talking with a therapist, too. She was doing things that could've led her on the right path to sorting through her feelings and finally moving on! 

And then she does this. She completely and totally blows it. Like I said last week, I'm still trying to figure out why the hell she was allowed to get a gun in the first place. Her access to her children was restricted, she was ordered to stay away from Dan and Linda's home, had a history of threatening voicemails and openly discussed wanting to kill her ex-husband numerous times, drove her freaking car into his house while herr children were inside the home...

...but yeah, sure, she can totally be allowed to buy and have possession of a gun, that's okay. ?????

I didn't realize until reading up on it that Dan and Linda had gotten married the same month that he and Betty had gotten married, in April. And he and Linda married ten days after what would've been his and Betty's 20th wedding anniversary, no less. I'd like to believe that choice of month and date was purely coincidental, but I somehow very much doubt it was. 

Also, I can kind of get Linda's whole, "Well, Betty's broken into our home and taken our things, why can't I do the same?" mindset and frustration to some degree, but seriously, aside from Dan's valid point that they should not stoop to that level (which is kind of rich considering the stuff Dan and Linda have done thus far, but whatever), considering her concerns about Betty's threats (to the point where she was trying to convince Dan they should get an alarm system for their home)...if I were her I'd be too scared to even go down the street Betty lived on, let alone go into her home and take something of hers. Especially something that would reveal just what kinds of awful thoughts she was likely thinking about me. It's certainly not like Linda wasn't already aware of what Betty really thought about her, after all, that journal probably wasn't going to tell her much else she didn't already know. 

And man, Dan really didn't seem to grasp the roots of Betty's rage, did he? He just kept thinking she was all about the money and that surely at some point his threats to withhold finances would work, despite the fact that threat clearly didn't stop her from harassing him before. Yes, she was angry about the finances, but her anger encompassed so much more than that. She wanted to see him suffer and make him pay in every possible way she felt she'd been wronged, financially and mentally and emotionally. And ultimately, physically, too. 

Betty's thing of taking the invite list and one of those shirts was bad enough. But then to call the people on that list and claim they weren't invited. Good god. And for cripes' sake, Betty, quit needling your kids for information about what Dan and Linda are doing! They're not your spies, leave them the hell alone about this stuff!

One episode left. Will be interesting to see how they handle the wrap up of all of this insanity. 

[Mrs. Hanson]

Per the gun buying issue:  This was 1989, when gun laws were a bit more loose.  Unless Betty was a felon, she could buy a handgun.  Gun store owner did a check, nothing came up that would prevent her from buying a gun and there ya go.  Not saying it is right or wrong, but it what WAS back then.  

When Linda was in teh house snooping, I was like "GET OUT OF THE HOUSE!!!!"  I thought Betty would show up and slice her, lol!!!

How sad her friends had to have all these secret codes in case Betty became unhinged even worse on the wedding day.  In another tv movie it was portrayed as spending the day with a friend, drinking a little wine and passing the time.  No biggie  - who really knows?

[LoveLeigh]

I think this is just very poorly done. I usually like Amanda Peet but she is awful in this. I saw the trial decades ago on COURT TV and that was better than this thing. All these episodes in and they never showed how Linda tormented and ridiculed Betty and gaslighted her and how Dan also made her life a real hell. And Amanda Peet just never reached any level of real desperation that drove Betty to that point. 

This is a melodrama that is like cotton candy with no substance. The acting is horrendous. 

Edited July 8, 2020 by DakotaLavender

[DanaK]

Very tense episode leading up to the murders. I guess Betty did have at least one lawyer for more than a minute and some therapy, a lot of good they did though

[Annber03]

56 minutes ago, Mrs. Hanson said:

Per the gun buying issue:  This was 1989, when gun laws were a bit more loose.  Unless Betty was a felon, she could buy a handgun.  Gun store owner did a check, nothing came up that would prevent her from buying a gun and there ya go.  Not saying it is right or wrong, but it what WAS back then.  

Oh, yeah, I know that the laws were less strict. Just that it amazes me to see how lax they were, is all. Nothing may have shown up in a background check, but once other people found out she owned a gun, maybe someone could've alerted authorities or something? 

I dunno. But yeah, certainly a sign of the times, indeed. 

[Lady of nod]

You can only push a person so far. Not in anyway condoning murder, but scumbag husband and his woman made Betty's life a living hell. She spent all  those years supporting him while he was in school,working, having his children and pumping him up. And when he found a younger hotter girl he threw her away like trash and took everything from her. She got no justice in the courts because he was a well known lawyer, and if I remember correctly no decent lawyer would represent her bc of him. He took her children, hid his assets, gaslighted her by denying his affair for a long time, and then when he and Linda did go public they taunted her and enjoyed it. 

Should she have just let it go? Yes. These things happen all the time. But if you're any kind of a decent human there are ways to make the split a little kinder. He said all she cared about was money but he's the one who had plenty and wanted to keep it from her. 

I agree with poster above that the acting is pretty bad here, except for  Christain Slater. He is so smug I just wanted to slap that smile off his face. 

The real victims here are the kids. Those little boys really loved their mom and now their fathers dead and she's in prison. She should have thought about that before she pulled the trigger.

[Lady of nod]

12 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Oh, yeah, I know that the laws were less strict. Just that it amazes me to see how lax they were, is all. Nothing may have shown up in a background check, but once other people found out she owned a gun, maybe someone could've alerted authorities or something? 

I dunno. But yeah, certainly a sign of the times, indeed. 

I don't think things have changed that much. There are laws about background checks but they're easily circumvented by buying from unlicensed dealers at gun shows for example.

[Annber03]

1 minute ago, Lady of nod said:

I don't think things have changed that much. There are laws about background checks but they're easily circumvented by buying from unlicensed dealers at gun shows for example.

I was gonna say, yeah, from what I have heard, there's still far too many loopholes and whatnot relating to that issue as well. Which speaks to a broader problem in general, but that's whole other topic and rant entirely. 

6 minutes ago, Lady of nod said:

She spent all  those years supporting him while he was in school,working, having his children and pumping him up. And when he found a younger hotter girl he threw her away like trash and took everything from her. 

When Dan and Linda were sitting there talking about their plans to start another family, I just kept thinking, "And so the cycle begins again...". I definitely agree Linda would've likely been in for a nasty shock of her own in a few years' time. 

[nilyank]

1 hour ago, Annber03 said:

When Dan and Linda were sitting there talking about their plans to start another family, I just kept thinking, "And so the cycle begins again...". I definitely agree Linda would've likely been in for a nasty shock of her own in a few years' time. 

Dan and Linda were going on and on about how they might not be able to travel because they might have new responsibilities with their plans of having a new baby that we could keep them homebound. Meanwhile have they forgotten that they already had Dan's younger children already living with them that should have restricted their carefree travel plans.

[GonnahearmeRoar]

Betty was so focused on Linda and obsessed with what Dan was doing that it drove her crazy. What she did is in inexcusable. Actions have consequences and I believe she served her time and should be granted parole. Betty is not a threat to anyone else. 

[Armchair Critic]

1 hour ago, Annber03 said:

When Dan and Linda were sitting there talking about their plans to start another family, I just kept thinking, "And so the cycle begins again...". I definitely agree Linda would've likely been in for a nasty shock of her own in a few years' time. 

Yup. If Linda had her own child to pay attention to which meant less attention to Dan and hanging on his every word, also when she wasn't as new and fresh anymore, he would have eventually found somebody else. They did do good casting with Linda because she is annoying. I will chalk up some of her annoying behavior to youth. 

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/9f1fb472-8b0a-41be-ae2f-a1808086e78c

Edited July 8, 2020 by Armchair Critic

[mamadrama]

6 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Other than that nice moment with her and her friend dancing to Neil Diamond, talking about her stillbirth, she was long past the point of no return.

Technically Betty's baby wasn't a stillborn because he died a few days post partum. My youngest son died a few years ago and people in my life frequently refer to him as a "pregnancy loss" even though he passed away when he was 2 months old. It may not sound like a big deal but, IMHO, I feel like using the term kinda discounts the hours/weeks/months they lived outside of the uterus.

Sorry, it's not you, it's me. His 10th birthday would've been 3 days ago so I'm just extra sensitive right now. I promise I'm not trying to be a bitch.

This episode was tough. Her mental health was so poor that I felt a little secondhand embarrassment at times. I felt like shaking her at the restaurant, with her daughter, and with her son. While I think it was totally premeditated and that she received the right punishment it was kinda clear that she wasn't working with all cylinders. She had help available, but I think she was too far gone to even recognize that she had a problem. The poor little boys. 😣

[Annber03]

3 minutes ago, mamadrama said:

.While I think it was totally premeditated and that she received the right punishment it was kinda clear that she wasn't working with all cylinders. She had help available, but I think she was too far gone to even recognize that she had a problem. 

I'll agree with this as well. There were definitely deeper issues at play with her that weren't being recognized and properly addressed by those around her, either because they weren't fully understood at that time or people just refused to see something was deeply wrong or whatever. 

I'm so sorry about your loss. 

[Spartan Girl]

51 minutes ago, mamadrama said:

Technically Betty's baby wasn't a stillborn because he died a few days post partum. My youngest son died a few years ago and people in my life frequently refer to him as a "pregnancy loss" even though he passed away when he was 2 months old. It may not sound like a big deal but, IMHO, I feel like using the term kinda discounts the hours/weeks/months they lived outside of the uterus.

Sorry, it's not you, it's me. His 10th birthday would've been 3 days ago so I'm just extra sensitive right now. I promise I'm not trying to be a bitch.

This episode was tough. Her mental health was so poor that I felt a little secondhand embarrassment at times. I felt like shaking her at the restaurant, with her daughter, and with her son. While I think it was totally premeditated and that she received the right punishment it was kinda clear that she wasn't working with all cylinders. She had help available, but I think she was too far gone to even recognize that she had a problem. The poor little boys. 😣

Oh, I am so sorry. No, of course I didn't think you were being a bitch just because you pointed out that I phrased it wrong, I was just fuzzy on the details of what happened. I don't know what else to say, other than I can't imagine how you must feel.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

4 hours ago, nilyank said:

Dan and Linda were going on and on about how they might not be able to travel because they might have new responsibilities with their plans of having a new baby that we could keep them homebound. Meanwhile have they forgotten that they already had Dan's younger children already living with them that should have restricted their carefree travel plans.

Apparently you can leave kids with the housekeeper full time. Go ahead and leave the country - she will be their legal guardian for a few weeks!

[cardigirl]

This was hard to watch, again.  I think anyone who has gone through a divorce they didn't want understands, to some degree, the sadness and anger that Betty was feeling about Dan's betrayal and his moving on with Linda. Most people, though, move forward. They may never forgive their former spouse, or have warm feelings towards the stepmother that gets involved with their children, but they find a way to move forward and find something to look forward to. 

Betty got so stuck, so hyper-focused on how wronged she had been, that she couldn't move forward. Part of that was the drawn-out nature of the settlement, and the legal trickery she had to deal with, exacerbating her feelings of helplessness. Part of it was the lack of any real support, emotional support, in her life from anyone, Dan, her parents, etc.  I think some of her friends tried, but eventually she wore them down. She truly was mentally ill, but she had gotten herself to a point where she felt she could trust no one, and no one understood her.

The day of Dan and Linda's wedding, with Betty looking through her own wedding album, was pretty realistic.  Lots of women probably treasure their wedding day as one of the biggest days of their lives.  And now those memories, because of the way the marriage ended, are tainted, and especially when the spouse is moving on and marrying someone else, looking back at when it was YOU being in the wedding, well, it's sad, and normal, and also, maybe a good time to kiss all of that good bye and say, time to move on. 

What an utter tragedy.

 

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

Other than that nice moment with her and her friend dancing to Neil Diamond

Which made me remember that Amanda Peet was in Saving Silverman with Neil Diamond, haha!

[Persnickety1]

So tragic all the way around.  

After watching my BFF go through her own Dan debacle, I've always understood why Betty did what she did.  I don't condone it, but I do understand it.  In Betty's mind, it was psychological self-defense.  Dan was never coming back, her life would never be the same, and her entire world was yanked out from under her feet.  When the ending scene showed Betty laying down on her cot in the cell, my first thought was that was probably the first good night's sleep she'd had in years because the "enemy" was no longer a threat.  

I don't believe I could ever have been driven to do what Betty did, though.  From getting the gun, stealing the daughter's key (I can't even imagine the level of guilt that girl still deals with), driving over to Dan's house, using said key to find a way into the house, climbing the stairs, going into their room with the loaded gun drawn and pointed...damn, that's a whole lot of fucking premeditation right there.  A sane person would have pulled back at some point and not followed through.  Unfortunately, at that point, Betty wasn't sane.  Not even close.  Her friends obviously knew this and had concerns about Dan's safety, but their concerns fell on Dan's deaf ears.  She would never kill her "golden goose."  Well, guess again, Dan.  Unlike what you believed, this was never actually about money for Betty.  

I'm not sure Betty will ever be granted parole due to her lack of remorse that's held steadfast all of these years.  Maybe she's adapted so well to prison life that she's content there.  Maybe in her mind, it's worth losing her "outside" life just so she can sleep at night knowing Dan and Linda aren't inhabiting the earth.  

Like I said, the level of premeditation that went into murdering Dan and Linda was pretty significant.  A sane person would have stepped back and reconsidered.  I think combined with her lack of remorse, the premeditation is also a sticking point for the parole board.  As unstable as she was, she was cognizant enough to form that plan and then carry it out.  No matter how much (justified) hatred I had towards Dan and Linda, I believe I would have stayed rational enough to talk myself off that proverbial edge.  

Not that I'm an angel by any extent of the imagination.  I can absolutely put myself in Clara Harris' place and hitting that gas pedal with the quickness.  Of course, Clara served her sentence and is now back in society whilst Betty still sits in prison white-knuckling her hatred of her victims.  

I'm looking forward to seeing how next week's episode puts all the ensuing legal shenanigans what with the two trials, etc., into a 45-minute time frame.  

 

 

 

 

[poeticlicensed]

11 hours ago, Annber03 said:

He just kept thinking she was all about the money and that surely at some point his threats to withhold finances would work, despite the fact that threat clearly didn't stop her from harassing him before.

Yes. He simply didn't get it. The money and the kids were a tool and a channel for her rage. It was all about Dan and how he left her. 

I am angry at Betty because she had the means, the resources to help herself move on. She had access to therapists, lawyers, a support system of friends, so many people willing to help her. But she chose to throw it all away. Even her kids, who she claimed to value more than life itself, she threw away because she couldn't get over Dan choosing to leave her. Yes, Dan was a douche, but this episode left me with zero sympathy for Betty. None. 

Edited July 8, 2020 by poeticlicensed

[poeticlicensed]

52 minutes ago, Persnickety1 said:

A sane person would have pulled back at some point and not followed through.  Unfortunately, at that point, Betty wasn't sane.  Not even close.

Disagree. Insanity is the inability to distinguish fantasy from reality, not knowing the difference between right and wrong. 

Unstable, yes. Mentally ill, yes. Insane, no. 

ETA - I am reminded of 2 recent murder cases in my area, in both cases a parent murdered their child. Both parents had hallucinations about their child either being a demon or an angel. One parent threw his child off a bridge and the other bought a gun and shot the kids. Both had extensive histories of mental illness, institutionalization and lots of meds to try and stabilize. Neither could distinguish reality from their delusions. That's insane IMO. 

Edited July 8, 2020 by poeticlicensed

[laprin]

10 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

I think this is just very poorly done. I usually like Amanda Peet but she is awful in this. I saw the trial decades ago on COURT TV and that was better than this thing. All these episodes in and they never showed how Linda tormented and ridiculed Betty and gaslighted her and how Dan also made her life a real hell. And Amanda Peet just never reached any level of real desperation that drove Betty to that point. 

This is a melodrama that is like cotton candy with no substance. The acting is horrendous. 

I’m watching a different show. The one I’m watching showed Linda sending Betty nasty notes to mock her weight and refusing to give her back her wedding china just to be petty. The changing of the voicemail and stealing her journal also speak to the fact that Linda was no angel, and enjoyed being an irritant to Betty.  
 

Amanda Peet is no Meredith Baxter, but she admirably shows us a Betty who quite possibly is bi-polar and clearly suffers from a personality disorder. My one quibble is that I wish she had put on some weight. They could have at least had her wear a body suit to give her a plumper figure. Betty gained more than 60 pounds throughout this. Her weight gain was why both Dan and Linda fat-shamed her. I think it played a great deal in how she viewed herself. After all, she was very pretty and in her words tried to keep herself “perfect” for Dan until he left her. 

[Elizzikra]

Quote

if I remember correctly no decent lawyer would represent her bc of him

Betty had multiple lawyers and they were, for the most part, quite good. She was impossible to manage as a client and also often did not pay them. She could have had a good attorney; she worked against herself by being an awful client who would not follow any direction at all.

[txhorns79]

10 hours ago, Lady of nod said:

You can only push a person so far. Not in anyway condoning murder, but scumbag husband and his woman made Betty's life a living hell. She spent all  those years supporting him while he was in school,working, having his children and pumping him up. And when he found a younger hotter girl he threw her away like trash and took everything from her. She got no justice in the courts because he was a well known lawyer, and if I remember correctly no decent lawyer would represent her bc of him. He took her children, hid his assets, gaslighted her by denying his affair for a long time, and then when he and Linda did go public they taunted her and enjoyed it. 

Betty lost custody of her children through her own actions.  She fired multiple lawyers who tried to help her.  She engaged in repeated criminal acts against Dan that only dragged out the divorce, and eventually led to her being jailed.  I don't care how mean Dan and Linda were.  Betty had choices and chose to act the way she did in response to Dan.  Had she played her cards right, she could have done much better in court and moved on to a better life.  Instead, she chose to wallow in her pain and anger. 

[Bulldog]

How long was it supposed to have been between the time Betty stole the keys and the shooting occurred?  I didn't get the impression it was the same day.  Did the daughter not notice her keys were gone?  It appeared to be (an unusually large) key chain with several keys, presumably including her car keys.  Seems that if she knew her keys were missing and knew her crazy mother had a habit of breaking into dad's house, she might have reasonably assumed Betty had the keys.  I'm in no way blaming the daughter, the timeline just didn't seem to quite make sense to me. 

I wonder how Betty's supporters who feel she has served adequate time would feel if Betty was released and moved into a house next door to them.  I, for one, would not like it.  But, you better believe that I'd be sure to keep the grass mowed, the hedges clipped, the trash can taken in and not throw any loud parties.  

[watcherwoman]

11 hours ago, Lady of nod said:

I don't think things have changed that much. There are laws about background checks but they're easily circumvented by buying from unlicensed dealers at gun shows for example.

Criminals will always be able to find guns.  No matter what happens with gun laws, criminals will not respect those laws and guns will be like drugs, readily available to those that want to break the law.  

I don't think it was just about the money for Betty.  Betrayal is worse than death for many people.   I had a neighbor very similar to Betty.  Early in the marriage,  they both worked hard, husband became successful and he left her for a younger woman after 28 years.  She was absolutely devastated.  His side of the family stopped talking to her when the new wife entered the picture, so this was not only losing him, but a family that had been close to her for years.   I know she cared deeply for that family too, and they just moved on because they chose blood over loyalty.   So at 52 years old,  she was lost.  One of her daughter's friends told her it was a thing for some younger girls, they wanted the good stuff now, so they wanted to hook up with an older established guy.  I'll never get that, a hot younger guy would be my choice at that age...lol.   The thought of someone over 40 would have turned my stomach.  Now that I'm over 60, 40 seems very young, so there's that...lol.

My neighbor fantasized about killing her husband, but she wasn't the type.  She never even had a speeding ticket.  She ended her misery in her garage with her car running.  She left a note to her husband that started with "you finally got what you wanted."   We all wish that she would have been able to get over it, especially since 2 years later, on her husband and new wife's anniversary,  the younger wife left him for her boyfriend and took a large amount of his money.     Her dumbass husband would have ran home to his first wife and she probably would have taken him back.  He told people he made the biggest mistake of his life.  What a waste for everyone.  These situations happen too often, or at least the longer I live, the more of it I've seen.   

[cardigirl]

13 minutes ago, watcherwoman said:

Criminals will always be able to find guns.  No matter what happens with gun laws, criminals will not respect those laws and guns will be like drugs, readily available to those that want to break the law.  

I don't think it was just about the money for Betty.  Betrayal is worse than death for many people.   I had a neighbor very similar to Betty.  Early in the marriage,  they both worked hard, husband became successful and he left her for a younger woman after 28 years.  She was absolutely devastated.  His side of the family stopped talking to her when the new wife entered the picture, so this was not only losing him, but a family that had been close to her for years.   I know she cared deeply for that family too, and they just moved on because they chose blood over loyalty.   So at 52 years old,  she was lost.  One of her daughter's friends told her it was a thing for some younger girls, they wanted the good stuff now, so they wanted to hook up with an older established guy.  I'll never get that, a hot younger guy would be my choice at that age...lol.   The thought of someone over 40 would have turned my stomach.  Now that I'm over 60, 40 seems very young, so there's that...lol.

My neighbor fantasized about killing her husband, but she wasn't the type.  She never even had a speeding ticket.  She ended her misery in her garage with her car running.  She left a note to her husband that started with "you finally got what you wanted."   We all wish that she would have been able to get over it, especially since 2 years later, on her husband and new wife's anniversary,  the younger wife left him for her boyfriend and took a large amount of his money.     Her dumbass husband would have ran home to his first wife and she probably would have taken him back.  He told people he made the biggest mistake of his life.  What a waste for everyone.  These situations happen too often, or at least the longer I live, the more of it I've seen.   

Oh such a sad story the other way. She couldn't live with the loss of her life (the marriage and all that it brought her) so she figured out a way to end the pain. I hope her exhusband suffers guilt of some sort, although I doubt it.    It does happen often too, older man goes off with a younger woman, because he thinks that's what he wants, and finds out she's just in it for material things.   Oof, relationships are hard. 

[LoveLeigh]

2 hours ago, laprin said:

I’m watching a different show. The one I’m watching showed Linda sending Betty nasty notes to mock her weight and refusing to give her back her wedding china just to be petty. The changing of the voicemail and stealing her journal also speak to the fact that Linda was no angel, and enjoyed being an irritant to Betty.  
 

Amanda Peet is no Meredith Baxter, but she admirably shows us a Betty who quite possibly is bi-polar and clearly suffers from a personality disorder. My one quibble is that I wish she had put on some weight. They could have at least had her wear a body suit to give her a plumper figure. Betty gained more than 60 pounds throughout this. Her weight gain was why both Dan and Linda fat-shamed her. I think it played a great deal in how she viewed herself. After all, she was very pretty and in her words tried to keep herself “perfect” for Dan until he left her. 

Well you could be right. I zone out from boredom so I stand corrected. Maybe I have to watch again within a different mindset. 

[poeticlicensed]

58 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

I don't think it was just about the money for Betty.  Betrayal is worse than death for many people.   I had a neighbor very similar to Betty.  Early in the marriage,  they both worked hard, husband became successful and he left her for a younger woman after 28 years.  She was absolutely devastated.  His side of the family stopped talking to her when the new wife entered the picture, so this was not only losing him, but a family that had been close to her for years.   I know she cared deeply for that family too, and they just moved on because they chose blood over loyalty.   So at 52 years old,  she was lost.  One of her daughter's friends told her it was a thing for some younger girls, they wanted the good stuff now, so they wanted to hook up with an older established guy.  I'll never get that, a hot younger guy would be my choice at that age...lol.   The thought of someone over 40 would have turned my stomach.  Now that I'm over 60, 40 seems very young, so there's that...lol.

My neighbor fantasized about killing her husband, but she wasn't the type.  She never even had a speeding ticket.  She ended her misery in her garage with her car running.  She left a note to her husband that started with "you finally got what you wanted."   We all wish that she would have been able to get over it, especially since 2 years later, on her husband and new wife's anniversary,  the younger wife left him for her boyfriend and took a large amount of his money.     Her dumbass husband would have ran home to his first wife and she probably would have taken him back.  He told people he made the biggest mistake of his life.  What a waste for everyone.  These situations happen too often, or at least the longer I live, the more of it I've seen.   

That is incredibly sad. 

 

[txhorns79]

One thing I did find that was odd, when the daughter was calling the house to check after hearing what Betty had done, the message on the machine was still the one where Linda was talking about how she and Dan were back (from the honeymoon) all tan and rested, even though this was about seven months later.  Even if she initially left that message to get back at Betty, it would have been very weird for her to have left it for months, long after the reference no longer made much sense.     

3 hours ago, laprin said:

Amanda Peet is no Meredith Baxter, but she admirably shows us a Betty who quite possibly is bi-polar and clearly suffers from a personality disorder.

I thought Peet did a great job with her scene of Betty after the shooting.  She just had this dazed, empty look, as though Betty had just checked out from reality and would not be back for a while.   

[Mrs. Hanson]

6 hours ago, watcherwoman said:

 Betrayal is worse than death for many people.

I knew a young lady who had parents who went through a )kinda) similiar scenario:  Hubby took up with high school flame he met at his 50 year high school reunion.  So, after 40 plus years of marriage, he is out,  Gone.  Wife picks herself up, gets a part time job and is......happy!  High School Female Crush left the now Ex-Hubby went back to ex wife and guess what?  Ex Wife said "Thanks but no thanks, I am living my best life!"  She goes on cruises, plays cards with her friends, shops, naps.....whatever she wants!  No desire to date.  I wish Betty could have done that.

 

6 hours ago, watcherwoman said:

Criminals will always be able to find guns.  No matter what happens with gun laws, criminals will not respect those laws and guns will be like drugs, readily available to those that want to break the law.

My hubby is a gun enthusiast (not in the NRA, fyi) and he has been making and repairing, aquiring and selling guns and firearms for 40 plus years* (started in his teens) and you are right.  90% (maybe more) of people are going to take the high road, aquire a firearm legally, never leave it loaded in the house, report it to police when it is stolen, etc.  My question is how would have Betty gotten around those rules had she been denied?  She did not exactly run in rough circles.  Would she have stolen one from someone?  Maybe.

*= He only deals with firearms made with wood and metal, nothing semi-automatic or made with plastic.

I highly doubt she will get out on parole.  Her kids could beg her: "Mom, just suck it up, show remorse and you are outta there!"  But sadly I think she has had 28 years to perseverate on this situation.  

7 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I don't care how mean Dan and Linda were.  Betty had choices and chose to act the way she did in response to Dan.  Had she played her cards right, she could have done much better in court and moved on to a better life.  Instead, she chose to wallow in her pain and anger. 

Come sit with me.  I don't care how mean they were, either.  She took a loaded gun into their house and shot them while they were sleeping.  In the Meredith Baxter movie, a friend comes to her towards the end and basically begs her:  "Betty, please.  You are funnier than two comedians, you have your health, you can get a huge settlement.  Please....move on."  Betty reacted by saying, "Oh great, they got to you too.  Get out."  Not sure if that really happened, but I can believe it.  

Said it before, I will say it again:  She easily could have had a shark lawyer to go against Dan.  Lawyers, for the most part, are VERY competitive and want to one up each other.  Besides, Dan was a malpractice lawyer, he would not have run with divorce lawyers.  And San Diego was, and still is, a VERY large city.

Let me tell you:  If my exhusband was paying me what Dan was offering Betty, I would be baking brownies, cookies and cakes every month for him.  Not shooting him,

Edited July 8, 2020 by Mrs. Hanson
clarity

[watcherwoman]

I bet many of us know stories like Betty and Dan's.    I know of some women who moved on and did well, even after many years of marriage.  Unfortunately, there are sad cases too.  My uncle left my aunt after 30 years of marriage for some trashy bimbo.  Sorry, but that's the nicest thing I could say about her.  He worked for the railroad, and believe it or not, there are railroad groupies, or sluts as some call them.  He met one of them  out of town, and fell in love...lol.  But,  the bimbo left my uncle after a few years too, taking some money along with her.  I lost touch with him but my aunt moved on, found a great guy and lived a good life for another 20 years.  When she died, her ex came to the funeral and sobbed loudly at her coffin.  She was the only one he ever loved...boohoo.  His kids had to pry his hands off of her coffin and take him outdoors.   It made for an interesting day to be sure.

Betty could have celebrated losing her piece of shit.  Dan was a real prick, no doubt.  Too bad they couldn't have moved their divorce proceedings to another county.   People like Scott Peterson got to move his trial, although in his case, I doubt it mattered.  I guess that doesn't work for divorces, but when one spouse is so connected, it really isn't fair.   And why would anyone want to get married again after these  contentious divorces?  I doubt Linda would settle for less than half of Dan's worth, and she probably was taking notes on what to do when her turn came.  

[chlban]

4 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Betty lost custody of her children through her own actions.  She fired multiple lawyers who tried to help her.  She engaged in repeated criminal acts against Dan that only dragged out the divorce, and eventually led to her being jailed.  I don't care how mean Dan and Linda were.  Betty had choices and chose to act the way she did in response to Dan.  Had she played her cards right, she could have done much better in court and moved on to a better life.  Instead, she chose to wallow in her pain and anger. 

Betty did not want custody of her children unless she got exactly the financial settlement she demanded. There seems to be a general misconception that she fought for custody. She never did. She did fight for more visitation, which had been severely limited, but not custody.

[poeticlicensed]

8 minutes ago, chlban said:

Betty did not want custody of her children unless she got exactly the financial settlement she demanded. There seems to be a general misconception that she fought for custody. She never did. She did fight for more visitation, which had been severely limited, but not custody.

I also think she wanted custody for the same reason Dan did. She wanted to keep some kind of control over Dan, like Dan did with her. The kids were merely the mechanism to exert control. 

[bkathi]

I left my husband after 3 years of marriage because he lied, not just about big things, but about little stupid stuff.  There was some gaslighting behavior - changing the text of an email to make me sound like a bitch.  Not realizing I could just check my sent mail box to see the original email.  I had to live with him for a year before I could move out - he wasn't working and I couldn't afford to pay mortgage for him and rent for me.  During that year his behavior kept me a prisoner in my bedroom.  I went to work - spent time in the evenings with friends and came home to sleep.  We saw a therapist (I tried to get him to go to marriage counseling before I asked for a separation).  He would only go once.  I kept going and the therapist told me he had some personality disorders and I was making the right decision.   He even cut his Mom out because she took my side, really trying to get him help.

This has allowed me to see the other side - I didn't have a boyfriend - I just wanted out of a toxic relationship.  Maybe Dan (and some, not all, of the Dan's out there) needed Linda to finally break free.  So yes, Linda wasn't a great person and probably wouldn't have lasted if her behavior started to mirror Betty's, but she gave him what he needed to leave.  

If Betty had taken advantage of the money and therapy, she could be living her best life.  My ex died about a year after our divorce was final - he let his bitterness and self pity get in the way.  We all have free will and can decide not to be a victim, but a survivor.

 

[Elizzikra]

Quote

How long was it supposed to have been between the time Betty stole the keys and the shooting occurred?  I didn't get the impression it was the same day.

I think it was actually the same day and I think the daughter might have been staying with Betty at the time. So Betty took the keys late afternoon/early evening and then late that night (or really, early the next morning), Betty goes to Dan and Linda's and shoots them. If the daughter didn't leave Betty's, she wouldn't have noticed necessarily that her keys were missing. Even if she did, and she surmised Betty had them, I can see her being reluctant to call Betty out on it or to push when Betty denied having them (which I'm thinking she almost certainly would have done). 

Quote

showed Linda sending Betty nasty notes to mock her weight

The newspaper clipping incident actually happened but many people, including Betty's friends, believe she sent it to herself. It looked like her handwriting and her habitual use of multiple exclamation points.

I'm not arguing that Dan and Linda were wonderful - I think there was plenty of bad behavior all around. But in this one case, I don't think Linda did was she was accused of doing (or what Betty wanted people to believe she had done).

Quote

My one quibble is that I wish she had put on some weight. They could have at least had her wear a body suit to give her a plumper figure. 

I thought she looked a tiny bit heavier in this episode - or at least in one or two scenes. But I agree - Betty was widely reported to have gained a lot of weight and while the series is going out of its way to show Amanda Peet eating constantly, she doesn't look any bigger really. Wish I could do that.

Quote

So yes, Linda wasn't a great person and probably wouldn't have lasted if her behavior started to mirror Betty's, but she gave him what he needed to leave.  

I don't know any of these people personally and I really don't have a lot of respect for people who a) cheat on their spouses or b) have affairs with married people. But just to toss out an unpopular opinion for discussion - Betty was absolutely awful to Linda (rarely in person but constantly from a distance). I'm a reasonably nice person most of the time but I think that constant level of assault would have driven me to bitch-dom pretty quickly.  I think Linda could have been a saint to start and Betty's constant barrage of hate would have turned her into a mean girl eventually. 

Like I said, plenty of bad behavior to go around and I don't know that any of the three of them were really kind, good people at the outset, but I also don't think that anyone really remembers what they were like at their best.

Edited July 8, 2020 by Elizzikra

[Goodtimes]

15 minutes ago, chlban said:

Betty did not want custody of her children unless she got exactly the financial settlement she demanded. There seems to be a general misconception that she fought for custody. She never did. She did fight for more visitation, which had been severely limited, but not custody.

Yep, that is 100% correct! In the "12th of Never" Dan wanted the kids to spend a Christmas with her. She refused because she wanted a certain amount of money to "entertain them correctly." He refused so she said no to having them over the holidays, she spent them alone.  Not to go too far off topic, but I was surfing the web the other night and found a "Free Betty" message board. People are posting to Broderick daughter Kim's Facebook page saying her Dad and Linda got what they deserved.  That's horrific. 

[poeticlicensed]

3 minutes ago, bkathi said:

Maybe Dan (and some, not all, of the Dan's out there) needed Linda to finally break free.  So yes, Linda wasn't a great person and probably wouldn't have lasted if her behavior started to mirror Betty's, but she gave him what he needed to leave.  

I agree. I think Dan was pretty miserable in his relationship with Betty from the beginning, as was Betty. When your singular goal is to get rich, that's pretty shallow. Not that Betty was necessarily a toxic person, at least early on, but I think the two of them were toxic together, lots of built up anger and resentment on both sides. 

[lovesnark]

4 hours ago, Bulldog said:

How long was it supposed to have been between the time Betty stole the keys and the shooting occurred?  I didn't get the impression it was the same day.  Did the daughter not notice her keys were gone?  It appeared to be (an unusually large) key chain with several keys, presumably including her car keys.  Seems that if she knew her keys were missing and knew her crazy mother had a habit of breaking into dad's house, she might have reasonably assumed Betty had the keys.  I'm in no way blaming the daughter, the timeline just didn't seem to quite make sense to me. 

I wonder how Betty's supporters who feel she has served adequate time would feel if Betty was released and moved into a house next door to them.  I, for one, would not like it.  But, you better believe that I'd be sure to keep the grass mowed, the hedges clipped, the trash can taken in and not throw any loud parties.  

I'm not sure of the amount of time, but Betty helped Kim look for her keys. I think she realized she'd lost them as soon as she left Betty's house and went right back to look for them. 

[lovesnark]

1 hour ago, watcherwoman said:

I bet many of us know stories like Betty and Dan's.    I know of some women who moved on and did well, even after many years of marriage.  Unfortunately, there are sad cases too.  My uncle left my aunt after 30 years of marriage for some trashy bimbo.  Sorry, but that's the nicest thing I could say about her.  He worked for the railroad, and believe it or not, there are railroad groupies, or sluts as some call them.  He met one of them  out of town, and fell in love...lol.  But,  the bimbo left my uncle after a few years too, taking some money along with her.  I lost touch with him but my aunt moved on, found a great guy and lived a good life for another 20 years.  When she died, her ex came to the funeral and sobbed loudly at her coffin.  She was the only one he ever loved...boohoo.  His kids had to pry his hands off of her coffin and take him outdoors.   It made for an interesting day to be sure.

Betty could have celebrated losing her piece of shit.  Dan was a real prick, no doubt.  Too bad they couldn't have moved their divorce proceedings to another county.   People like Scott Peterson got to move his trial, although in his case, I doubt it mattered.  I guess that doesn't work for divorces, but when one spouse is so connected, it really isn't fair.   And why would anyone want to get married again after these  contentious divorces?  I doubt Linda would settle for less than half of Dan's worth, and she probably was taking notes on what to do when her turn came.  

Betty's refusal to retain an attorney is what hurt her in court. Not Dan being a member of the bar. She had some really great, shark attorneys that would have gotten her a settlement a lot of women could only dream of. Her failures in court fall squarely on her shoulders.

[cardigirl]

I don't know that it is really true that Betty's lack of a decent lawyer was totally on her, or that it was entirely her fault that she got such an uneven settlement. There are plenty of divorces handed out where one spouse is totally shredded by the settlement.  Dan played the right mind games with her, and had no qualms about what he was doing. The judge could have chosen to be more even-handed in the settlement, but he didn't go that way. 

In hindsight, I think it's easy to say she could have just walked away, but I don't think Dan ever really offered her a "fair" settlement. Sure, the initial amount may have been (to most of us) more than enough to live comfortably, but it wasn't what she was used to, as Mrs. Dan Broderick, and he made damn certain she wasn't going to have that. He was punishing her from the start. 

She made a point of saying she didn't want to be a single mother of four children. By that, I think she meant, she didn't want to be left with the four kids, no money, and for him to go off with his new wife and have everything.  Was she using the kids as a ploy?  Yes, and I think she thought she could remain close to Dan through those kids, but that backfired when he fought and got full custody and made visitation impossible for her. 

Her temper did her no favors, but I think that started to come out when Dan started playing games, like visiting local lawyers so she had to go to San Diego and find one, lying to her about having an affair and telling her she was crazy, fining her all the time for "bad" behavior. 

That's why this case gets its hooks in people.  You can see where there were so many wrong turns.  Today, women threaten to accuse their husbands of child molestation in order to get bigger settlements, or claim abuse, or illegal activity. When the financial stakes are high, the big weapons come out. And poor Betty kept thinking that infidelity was the worst crime there was. When no one would agree with her, she couldn't take it. 

[Annber03]

7 hours ago, Persnickety1 said:

When the ending scene showed Betty laying down on her cot in the cell, my first thought was that was probably the first good night's sleep she'd had in years because the "enemy" was no longer a threat.  

That's exactly the thought I had as well. She was exhausted and just ready to finally rest. 

Quote

I don't believe I could ever have been driven to do what Betty did, though.  From getting the gun, stealing the daughter's key (I can't even imagine the level of guilt that girl still deals with), driving over to Dan's house, using said key to find a way into the house, climbing the stairs, going into their room with the loaded gun drawn and pointed...damn, that's a whole lot of fucking premeditation right there. 

Yep. 

I have no interest in guns at all, so even if I can understand, on some level, the "God, I could just kill them..." mindset in and of itself, I just could not bring myself to actually do it. 

Quote

Not that I'm an angel by any extent of the imagination.  I can absolutely put myself in Clara Harris' place and hitting that gas pedal with the quickness.  Of course, Clara served her sentence and is now back in society whilst Betty still sits in prison white-knuckling her hatred of her victims.  

Clara's story is so freaking sad, too. We've discussed it on occasion here and it's really eerie the amount of similarities between the two women. I wonder if this show, or another one, will ever try and do a season on that story now.

7 hours ago, poeticlicensed said:

ETA - I am reminded of 2 recent murder cases in my area, in both cases a parent murdered their child. Both parents had hallucinations about their child either being a demon or an angel. One parent threw his child off a bridge and the other bought a gun and shot the kids. Both had extensive histories of mental illness, institutionalization and lots of meds to try and stabilize. Neither could distinguish reality from their delusions. That's insane IMO. 

Oh, my god, how horrible :(. 

1 hour ago, Goodtimes said:

People are posting to Broderick daughter Kim's Facebook page saying her Dad and Linda got what they deserved.  That's horrific. 

That's disgusting. Why in the hell would anyone taunt any of her children like that? 

Some people just should not be allowed any kind of internet access, I swear to god...

[Angeltoes]

1 hour ago, Annber03 said:

When the ending scene showed Betty laying down on her cot in the cell, my first thought was that was probably the first good night's sleep she'd had in years because the "enemy" was no longer a threat.  

I remember an interview with her where she said exactly that.  She didn't have to worry any more about what he was going to do to her next.

Quote

Per the gun buying issue:  This was 1989, when gun laws were a bit more loose. 

This was the same year Robert Bardo killed actress Rebecca Schaeffer.  He was underage to buy a gun so he got his older brother, who was a gun enthusiast, to buy him one.  Older brother bought it with the understanding between them that Robert was never to shoot the gun unless older brother was there to supervise.  We see how that worked out. 

Quote

I agree with poster above that the acting is pretty bad here, except for  Christain Slater. He is so smug I just wanted to slap that smile off his face. 

I can't get past the fact that he's 50-years-old!  And, yes, he does smug quite well.  Also, he's good with the amused "are you believing this shit" looks that he gives the judge.

[TexasGal]

20 hours ago, Annber03 said:

 

Betty's thing of taking the invite list and one of those shirts was bad enough. But then to call the people on that list and claim they weren't invited. Good god. And for cripes' sake, Betty, quit needling your kids for information about what Dan and Linda are doing! They're not your spies, leave them the hell alone about this stuff!

 

And then to sit before a judge and claim you didn’t steal the list, after calling guests and leaving messages.  Can’t believe that didn’t work out for her.

[chocolatine]

17 hours ago, nilyank said:

Dan and Linda were going on and on about how they might not be able to travel because they might have new responsibilities with their plans of having a new baby that we could keep them homebound. Meanwhile have they forgotten that they already had Dan's younger children already living with them that should have restricted their carefree travel plans.

Both Dan and Linda seemed perfectly happy to leave his sons with the housekeeper for several weeks. Apparently to them, only the children they'd have together would be deserving of proper parenting. 

[Annber03]

1 minute ago, chocolatine said:

Both Dan and Linda seemed perfectly happy to leave his sons with the housekeeper for several weeks..

And I'm sure the housekeeper would've just loved that. Not like they had any other important work to do or anything, right? 

[mamadrama]

The fact that this went on for years is crazy. 

[Elizzikra]

Quote

That's disgusting. Why in the hell would anyone taunt any of her children like that? 

Team Betty seems pretty rabid in its defense of her and criticism of anyone and everyone "anti-Betty." Kim, the oldest child, falls into that category because she testified for the prosecution. Several of them have commented on other sites that she was "an adult" when she testified (I think she was 20 at the first trial and maybe 21 - 22 at the second) and that she "knew what she was doing." She also maintains a cordial relationship with Linda's sister, which Team Betty also holds against her. I know that two of Betty's children have opposed her parole so maybe Kim was one of those two. That would further incite the wrath of Team Betty.

I don't think that the (now adult) Broderick children deserve anything but peace and privacy. None of them asked for any of this and none of them appear to have sought out any sort of media or public attention in many, many years. i think their childhood was unimaginably difficult and I'm sure it haunts each of them to this day. So I don't offer any of this as a rational explanation for what Team Betty does - I think it's repugnant that they would say any of these sorts of things and in particular, seek out one of the Broderick siblings to say it to them, but evidently they do.

Unrelated - why was this episode called "Shillelagh?" I know what that is (I had to look it up) and I saw where the woman in the bar referenced it but other than that - why is it significant enough for the episode title?