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S01.E07: I've Been to London to Visit the Queen

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While training for an upcoming race, Annabelle becomes bedridden after an unfortunate horse training accident. Meanwhile, Caroline decides to throw a dinner party to bring all the girls together. Caprice’s manners come into question when she arrives late to Caroline’s party, however, some very big news may trump her tardiness.

I still can't stand Caprice. What a self absorbed cow.

Who knew that nearly dying would make me like Annabelle more. Maybe the fall shook the stick from her ass our maybe she hit her head, which caused her to stop mentioning McQueen like the world's most fashionable Tourettes sufferer.

Noelle needs to stop drinking.

Edited by CuriousParker
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Any episode that makes Noelle look like an even more massive asshole than she is becomes okay in my book.  Can Rosemary the Etiquette Lady show up every week to give Noelle a smack down?  And if we took a drink every time she pursed her lips and/or looked pissed, we'd all be in alcohol induced comas.

 

Oh Caprice, shut up.  If you're 7+ months pregnant and your surrogate is 8-9 months pregnant, whose fault is it you don't have anything ready for the babies?  Maybe you should quit jaunting to the country and/or buying ugly maternity outfits and buy some baby gear.  Or pay someone to do it.  Just saying. 

 

Poor Annabelle.  Caprice and Lady Almost Sandwich come to pay her a visit while she's recovering and she ends up consoling Caprice?  Excuse me?   I have news, Caprice.  It's not all about you.  You're having a baby.  Annabelle nearly had a fatal accident.  You lose.

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That Scot is one rough looking character.  Noelle deserves whatever she gets being wrapped up with this criminal.  Someone needs to tell Caprice the flat straight hair & the warped shit she's doing to her face makes her look like the Crypt Keeper -- and about 85 years old.  Hilarious that she thinks she still looks hot.  Maybe she did -- 10 million years ago.  She's lookin' like Joan Rivers now.

 

Caroline has a face like a duck.  Very distracting cuz I expect her to quack   Didn't care much about the conversation with Caprice & Noelle on the baby shower.  Caprice really thinks Caroline is being cruel?  Er, huh?  Not much chance of this show coming back for another season, eh?  Won't miss it.  Juliet is a ridiculous loser.

Edited by ScoobieDoobs
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Caroline and etiquette lady: we Brits don't air dirty laundry in public. No, just on international TV.

I actually felt bad for Annabelle. She was in serious pain.

Edited by GussieK
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Noelle is just horrible. I was just laughing at how big her duck lips were when being lectured by the etiquette expert. And WTF was that gold nightmare she wore to Caroline's? She looked like she walked straight off the set of Barbarella. 

 

Caprice, most women have given birth at some point and you bitch and moan one thousand  times more than most of them. Here's a hint. If you don't want your back and legs to hurt, take off the damn high heels.To walk on heels you have to shift your weight back, which causes stress on your lower back. She is such an idiot. Also, irregardless of whether her surrogate was dialated, she knew that there was a drop dead date by which she had to travel. So WTF was up with asking multiple people to throw her a shower when she knew damn well that she wasn't even going to be around? Talk about manufactured drama for no reason. 

 

What the hell did Juliet have on at Caroline's? It looked like a housedress my mom would wear in the mornings when I was growing up. And her hair looked so straggly.She seriously needs to consider cutting it to chin level. It would look a million times better. 

 

I seriously want Caroline for my friend. DVDs and a TV were a great gift for someone who is bedridden. I love her snark on the others, but she is a little OTT about Caprice, but whatever. 

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Going into this I thought I would hate Caroline and like Caprice. I couldn't have been more wrong.  Every time Caprice says "I'm freaking out" or "babe" I want to jump through my tv and strangle her.  That should be the new drinking game, every time she says one of those.  Speaking of drinking games, is this the first episode with no McQueen reference? I think so.  Maybe Annabelle's accident did jar some sense into her.  I did love Caroline's gift of DVD's tho and now feel stupid that I never thought of that for a get well gift.  And one last random thought.....just how in the world did someone like Julie hook up with royalty? She just doesn't seem the type a royal would go for.

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Did anyone else see the irony in Caroline showing up to the etiquette lesson in super short, cut-off, denim shorts? 

 

I did think Noelle and Juliet were being ridiculous, though. Yes, it's kind of awkward to basically be called out on your poor manners, but wouldn't you WANT to learn proper ones? Maybe I'm weird, but I kind of think an etiquette class would be fun. If I was going to formal dinner parties, I'd want to be on my best behavior. 

 

Anyhow, most of this was so "yawn" for me because they are fighting over THE dumbest shit. I just can't even be bothered to care. 

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I suspect the problem is that both Juliet and Noelle weren't happy playing stupid ill mannered Americans for the made up dinner party and now the follow up course in etiquette.  And as much as I find both ridiculous and I do think they did act foolishly at the dinner there were two huge glaring elephants they ignored.  The first was the dinner party was no where near as formal or stately as they tried to pretend (unless Old Navy is suddenly considered formal attire).  The second being that both Julie as "hostess" and Caroline as guest were also rather rude and incredibly inappropriate at the dinner. So Juliet digging in with Rosemary actually made me smile.

 

Annabelle checked herself out of hospital because she didn't want someone like a nurse or doctor guffaw loudly as she spun her tumble and bruises into "the second worse kind of accident you can have"  since I can count at least two dozen ways Annabelle could be in worse shape with dead being the fifth from the very worst, I have to laugh at the silly fake melodrama that makes no sense. 

 

And both Annabelle and Caprice should have taken the time to study with an acting coach on body posture.  Caprice trying to look more pregnant by slouching in the car with Julie even as she moaned how uncomfortable she was.  When you can clearly see the edge of seat she positions herself on is actually not supporting her at all and is jabbing into her kidneys.  But ti did make her stomach look fuller.  It was funny how full all her clothes got in the belly area even as they got tighter in the pelvis hips and thighs (really her walking down the steps was ridiculous).  Annabelle and her crutches was equally a hoot.  What a little actress our McQueen whisperer is.  I kept waiting for her to say Lee pulled her back from the light because she has so much more to give the fashion world.

 

Marissa.  I know it is a show thing.  But I wish she had not succumbed to the silly shower feud plot.

 

Caprice and the baby contrivance is just ridiculous.  There is no way that she could not have managed her "line" and the babies better.  While no pregnancy is the same it is not like doctors don't time parameters.  The whole thing stinks to me.  I'm still not sure why you would go to L.A. for a surrogate when you live in London and are selling yourself as such.  Fake phoney and a total pig.  Those kids better have good nannies.  I love how Caprice has done nothing but talk behind people's backs and yet whines how she does not do that.  No Caprice what you don't do is miss a chance to be in a scene that has cameras capturing it.  The idea that she thinks she doesn't look the rude attention whoring fool by jumping in a car in July/August to leave London for "an hour" to drive out to Caroline?  And it's dark outside?  Bullshit.  There is no way no matter how late you might dine continental style, that it is proper or courteous to jaunt into someone's home at ten at night to join a dinner party in progress. 

 

Noelle is a worse actress than either Caprice or Annabelle.   Does she really think viewers are stupid and the wide eyed what me? routine on making sure that there is drama between Caroline and Caprice for the cameras actually made it seem real in any way?

 

 

ETA: being pedantic here but there is a huge difference between the Montagus of Sandwich and "royals".  Marissa's joking hyperbole aside, Julie did not marry a royal unless about a million people dropped dead suddenly between them and even the most tenuous claim to the throne.  And that includes all us Americans who descend from James I or the subsequent Hanoverians who are legally in line for the throne as defined by the Royal Marriage Act. 

Edited by heebiejeebie
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Caprice and the baby contrivance is just ridiculous.  There is no way that she could not have managed her "line" and the babies better.  While no pregnancy is the same it is not like doctors don't time parameters.  The whole thing stinks to me.  I'm still not sure why you would go to L.A. for a surrogate when you live in London and are selling yourself as such.  Fake phoney and a total pig.  Those kids better have good nannies.  I love how Caprice has done nothing but talk behind people's backs and yet whines how she does not do that.  No Caprice what you don't do is miss a chance to

My first thought was that she must have picked a surrogate in the U.S. for legal reasons -- either because of the surrogacy laws or because she wants her child to be a U.S. citizen.  I did a quick Google and found this:  

Surrogacy is not illegal in the UK but it is restricted by various legal rules. For example, it is a criminal offence to advertise that you are looking for a surrogate, or are willing to act as a surrogate. It is also an offence to broker a surrogacy arrangement on a commercial basis.

Under English law, the legal mother of a child born through surrogacy is always, at birth, the surrogate mother. This is because the law says that the woman who carries a child is the legal mother.  If the surrogate is married, and conceives artificially (through IVF or artificial insemination at home) the legal father at birth is usually the surrogate’s husband and this is irrespective of the biological relationships.  The intended father may be treated as the legal father at birth if the surrogate mother is not married, or in a civil partnership at the time she conceives. If you are conceiving at a licensed clinic in the UK, you may need to take extra steps before conception to ensure the intended father’s status and right to be named on the birth certificate. In some circumstances, it may also be possible to nominate someone other than the intended father as your child’s second parent if action is taken before conception.

vs. California: 

California is known to be a surrogacy friendly state. It permits commercial surrogacy, regularly enforces gestational surrogacy contracts, and makes it possible for all intended parents, regardless of marital status or sexual orientation, to establish their legal parentage prior to the birth and without adoption proceedings (pre-birth orders).

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I think Annabelle said she "broke" her pelvis.  If she'd actually badly fractured it she wouldn't be out of bed, so I'm presuming she has some kind of fracture that is expected to heal on its own -- provided she doesn't go walking around on it, presumably.

 

Silly me -- I was always taught that the first rule of etiquette is that adults don't correct the manners of other adults.   

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I literally squealed when I saw Rosemary Schrager. I loved her ass on that trashy as Ladyette to Lady British reality show. 

 

Noelle has what I have come to term perma selfie face. It appears her default facial expression is what one sees in posted selfie pics of your standard basic instragrams hoes - pouty provocative, you know you wanna fuck me expression with a head tilt. She always seems to be posing for a picture that isn't being taken. Miss I ain't no golddigger was trying to point out the 300 acre estate that Scot with one 't' owned before he relocated all his ass ... oops went bankrupt. Of course she said once again she met him at the wrong time. Yeah, she is with him for his looks and charm.

 

Juliet actually looked nice in some of her talking heads and also to go to the Wellington Club. 

 

I think I have heard the worse advice I have ever heard given on any reality show. Next in line open face dry turkey Sandwich told Caprice CAPRICE! to be selfish. Why not go tell the Atlantic Ocean to be wet & salty. Caprice is just horrid.  Funny that she asks all these girls to throw her a party and always spins it as them offering. Come to turn out she is leaving for the states anyway and there won't be a party.Her fiance already has 3 kids? Where are they? What does he do? Hope he supports them. 

 

Wow! Who knew it would take broken bones and internal injuries to make Annabelle likeable. 

 

I like Caroline but she is a ridiculously catty bitch. Also, how much different were the shorts she wore this episode compared to the ones Juliet wore to the 4th of July party?

 

Can't believe the season is over next week. Feel like it just started.

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I literally squealed when I saw Rosemary Schrager. I loved her ass on that trashy as Ladyette to Lady British reality show. 

 

That's why I found her face so familiar! I loved Ladette to Lady; the show's run was way too short (I think it was just two short seasons?).

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That's why I found her face so familiar! I loved Ladette to Lady; the show's run was way too short (I think it was just two short seasons?).

There were actually 3 seasons of the show but I think only the 1st two ever aired on US television as far as I know. I myself never saw the 3rd season. It might be available online somewhere but I never checked. I only just learned of a 3rd season not too long ago myself. 

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Wow, quite a voice on Rania, Caroline's assistant.

 

"Hey, you little slut" made me laugh more than it should have.

 

I could not stand to be around Caprice for more than five minutes, seriously.

 

Season finale, what?!

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Caught the last 5 minutes today on rerun.  Juliet looks like she's wearing old draperies. 

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I did think Noelle and Juliet were being ridiculous, though. Yes, it's kind of awkward to basically be called out on your poor manners, but wouldn't you WANT to learn proper ones? Maybe I'm weird, but I kind of think an etiquette class would be fun. If I was going to formal dinner parties, I'd want to be on my best behavior.

I don't know. I used to think it would be charming to know fan language. But it's probably super irritating to be called out on everything little thing you do. Funny how the etiquette expert ends up being incredibly rude. Does it really matter how you dip your freaking spoon into a bowl? These aren't manners but the exacting standards that some random people came up with hundreds of years ago. Laughable that Caroline just said earlier in the episode that she's not exclusionary. That's what etiquette is for. To separate those who have had rigorous training in these rules from those who haven't and previously to separate the upper and lower classes. Where's the lesson on not leading people out during a dinner party for a smoke break, Caroline? Hmn? Different cultures have different standards for what is polite and impolite and pretending British ways are just universal standards of etiquette just annoys me to no end.

 

At least Noelle thanked the servers. Miss Manners probably doesn't think it's appropriate to speak to the help.

 

Really enjoyed Caprice's adorable dog napping while she made that whinging phone call.

 

Caroline seemed genuinely upset when they went to the club and her minions didn't jump to do what she wanted.

 

Oh my God, Rania, Caroline's assistant, has the deepest voice. She sounds like those longtime smokers who have to have a voice box put in. 

 

I think Noelle actually looked nice for the dinner party other than that her chest was a bit too exposed.

 

How is it effortless to hire a bunch of people to do things for you? Of course it's effortless. You don't have to expend any effort beyond opening up the checkbook.

 

So bored. I watched this episode while checking my email and making lunch. I'm pretty much ready to give up on this show. I think I'll watch the season finale just to finish things up but if it gets renewed I don't think I'll be watching.

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I think I would be offended if my friend had me be talked down to like that in the name of "etiquette". But then I have more sense than to act like Noelle and Juliet did at that dinner.

 

You'd think Julie would know how to stand up straight and not slouch all the time.

 

I either zone out or fast forward through Caprice's scenes, so can someone refresh my memory: Why is she pregnant and using a surrogate also?

 

Something about Caroline I really like. Must be her snarkiness.

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I wish there was a more clever snarky one among the Yanks.  Because Marissa, much as I enjoy here so far, is too determined to be even keeled and yet seems incredible smart if deliberately silly in a light hearted way.  Because someone smart would have been a delight.  Say after the spoon lesson, Noelle asked sweetly : so tell me Rosemary, how does one hold one's cell phone as your royal paramour earnestly wishes to be your tampon?  Do you kick dirt on the Duchess of Argyll's shoe Prince Philip just blew a snot rocket on like the sainted Queen Mum did with your left shoe?  Or your right?  When the Earl of Suffolk farts during dinner without excusing himself is that the signal to switch conversation with your dinner partner on the left to the one on your right?  When the Marquess of Lothian starts to vomit at the Derby and demands your hat, do you first offer your handbag despite the fact his vomit is bright green and smells like half of Noah's ark died in in his lower intestine and is walking dead its way back up? When the late Duchess of Fife starts to finger herself during port is that the time to make your excuses or do you stick around and watch her sister-in-law grope the footman's cock while the rest of the party for some inexplicable reason starts baying like hounds?

 

 

Give me someone who treats me with respect and courtesy and simple hospitality.  Not the silly fake rules that most people who claim to use them only do so to bully and diminish others.

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I either zone out or fast forward through Caprice's scenes, so can someone refresh my memory: Why is she pregnant and using a surrogate also?

 

Because evidently she had been having a hard time getting pregnant, so they got a surrogate. But then she got pregnant a month after the surrogate did. So now there's gonna be 2 Caprice/whatever-his-name-is offspring. 

Edited by wovenloaf

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Caught the last 5 minutes today on rerun.  Juliet looks like she's wearing old draperies.

 

 

Read this fast & thought Juliet wore diapers.  Er, did she?  Sounds like something she'd do.

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.  And one last random thought.....just how in the world did someone like Julie hook up with royalty? She just doesn't seem the type a royal would go for.

 

This picture of her husband might offer some insight

 

 

 

I think he looks like a serial killer!Luke-266x2001.jpg

I want Caroline as my friend. Especially when I am sick,

Or when I want someone to throw me a dinner party!  I'm sure Caroline didn't mean it, but it was interesting that she made sure to mention that she had a lot of food options so everyone could have something to eat and leave full.  I felt like it was a little shade thrown at the Sandwichs!

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Or when I want someone to throw me a dinner party!  I'm sure Caroline didn't mean it, but it was interesting that she made sure to mention that she had a lot of food options so everyone could have something to eat and leave full.  I felt like it was a little shade thrown at the Sandwichs!

 

I think that she was probably throwing a little shade, plus part of the point behind the etiquette lessons is that Caroline considers it uncouth for guests to pass food back and forth. Juliet had a problem with the available cuisine.

 

At my extended family gatherings, there are usually several options. Granted these are family get-togethers and for the most part, we know one another's food preferences. Is giving your host a list of things you won't eat pretty standard? I just assumed that hosts try to divvy up the available options without guests' input.

 

On one hand, I think it seems wise to let your host know in advance what your food preferences are. On the other hand, it seems kind of obnoxious to tell the host what he or she should make, when that person invited you over for a free meal.

Edited by Surrealist

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I agree Caroline was joking about options, other than the vegan peppers it looked like they were discussing courses not options.  When I have a dinner party (and granted it's generally for one or two couples, not a lot of people, and I'm the one doing the cooking), I will usually ask my guests if there is anything they can't/won't eat and if I'm planning to make something unusual or spicy I will check with them to make sure they will be ok with it.  

 

I was surprised that Juliet did look really nice a couple of times in this episode.  Good hair, good clothes.  Who knew she had it in her?

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I agree Caroline was joking about options, other than the vegan peppers it looked like they were discussing courses not options.  When I have a dinner party (and granted it's generally for one or two couples, not a lot of people, and I'm the one doing the cooking), I will usually ask my guests if there is anything they can't/won't eat and if I'm planning to make something unusual or spicy I will check with them to make sure they will be ok with it.  

 

I was surprised that Juliet did look really nice a couple of times in this episode.  Good hair, good clothes.  Who knew she had it in her?

 

I know right?  I had to check myself to make sure, but then she went to Caroline's dinner party wearing that horrible frumpy dress and I was like "oops, there is Juliet!"  But seriously, I've found her British doppleganger....

 

The-Paradise-Katherine-Glendenning-6.jpg

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I actually like all of the women and see their pros and cons.

Yes some get on my nerves sometimes but their emotions and reactions all seem valid.

What's fascinating about Caroline is that she can be really bitchy and condescending but somehow it doesn't come across that way. How does she do that!? Teach me, Caroline!!!

I think Noelle just wants to be liked and doesn't know how to handle her situation. She doesn't seem like a mean hearted person at all. Actually none of them do.

While some my find this show boring I really enjoy the simplicity of it. I'm not one who enjoys the table flipping over the top crap from the real housewives. This feels more like what real women fight about.

Love the Ladies of London :)

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Wow, quite a voice on Rania, Caroline's assistant.

 

I was making some lists whilst watching the show and I looked up and was shocked, SHOCKED that a woman was speaking.

 

Caprice says that no one wants to go out to Surrey for a baby shower, but they all went out to Surrey for a dinner party.  WTF?  And now I want to go to Surrey, Caroline's home is lovely.

 

I also liked that Juliet pointed out that Americans are much more casual in their dinner etiquette, but that she wanted to respect the way they did things in the UK.  It's difficult for me to reign in my voice volume (and I am loud for an American) when I'm in Europe, I can't imagine feeling pressured to reign in other personality quirks and traits that are looked down upon in other cultures.  

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I was making some lists whilst watching the show and I looked up and was shocked, SHOCKED that a woman was speaking.

 

Caprice says that no one wants to go out to Surrey for a baby shower, but they all went out to Surrey for a dinner party.  WTF?  And now I want to go to Surrey, Caroline's home is lovely.

 

I also liked that Juliet pointed out that Americans are much more casual in their dinner etiquette, but that she wanted to respect the way they did things in the UK.  It's difficult for me to reign in my voice volume (and I am loud for an American) when I'm in Europe, I can't imagine feeling pressured to reign in other personality quirks and traits that are looked down upon in other cultures.  

 

I think there is "trying to respect the culture, but I'm sort of naturally loud" and then there is "fuck you, I'm an American and don't mess with Texas!"  I feel like most of the time Juliet falls into the second camp.  Everytime she does something rude all you ever hear from her is "well this is how I am and this is how I do things"  But I think most countries, and the US is included, most countries expect some sort of assimilation even as a show of respect for their culture.  Even some sort of effort, but I think that not only does she refuse to put in any effort, but she takes pride in refusing to even try to be respectful of the traditions of the country she lives in.  I don't think with Juliet its a matter of personality quirks, its just a matter of being loud and obnoxious which now everyone has taken to mean "American."  I mean most of us live a life where, at some point, someone annoys us, or upsets us, or irks us and we either suck it up, or we let it pass until we are in private with that person.  Not everything has to be addressed right here, right now and in the middle of the street.  Its not like someone who has to pee and can't hold it in, she is a human adult, she has held in her feelings at some point and addressed them later.  

 

Juliet can say all she wants that American etiquette is far more casual, but you know what Juliet, you're not in America! If you want to live in a different culture, be respectful of their norms and act accordingly.

 

And you can be a reasonable adult and, like the etiquette expert said, just eat around the food you don't like.  But of course, if you're Juliet you can't possibly be bothered to do that, because she has to be her, all the time, 100% of the time, no matter who else she is being a jackass to, no matter who else she is disrespecting.

 

And Caroline was right on the money when she said that at some point people will just stop inviting Juliet places because they will see her as a loud and annoying problem.  And it will be exactly what Juliet deserves.

Edited by RealityGal
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Caprice says that no one wants to go out to Surrey for a baby shower, but they all went out to Surrey for a dinner party.  WTF?  And now I want to go to Surrey, Caroline's home is lovely.

To be fair, those were Caroline's friends and I think one or two of them lived nearby. It was an hour long drive up there which not everyone is going to want to do. 

 

But I think most countries, and the US is included, most countries expect some sort of assimilation even as a show of respect for their culture.

Yeah, but again, to be fair, the British do not have the best track record of respecting other cultures. Even now, American tourists aren't the only ones people complain about.

 

And you can be a reasonable adult and, like the etiquette expert said, just eat around the food you don't like.  But of course, if you're Juliet you can't possibly be bothered to do that, because she has to be her, all the time, 100% of the time, no matter who else she is being a jackass to, no matter who else she is disrespecting.

For Juliet it was a matter of choice but I find this incredibly stupid advice for someone with an actual food allergy like Noelle. Oh, yes, just eat around the seafood. Oh, your throat is closing up? Well, isn't that inconvenient?

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Juliet can say all she wants that American etiquette is far more casual, but you know what Juliet, you're not in America! If you want to live in a different culture, be respectful of their norms and act accordingly.

 

True, but I think that perhaps she was trying to point out, while attempting to save some face, that because she's not from the UK, she's not yet familiar with their more rigid (and probably different) rules of etiquette and is still acclimating.  I agree somewhat with what you're saying about some people not even trying to assimilate, but I'm sure there's probably a point where you feel like some things are being stripped from you, and you desperately try to cling to some of those things just to keep from getting homesick.  My sister adores London, has acclimated beautifully, but still calls me and cries that she misses home.  She just made a massive feast for her office on July 4 because she said that it makes her feel less alone.  So while I can tsk tsk Juliet's behavior, I can also understand that being far away from home isn't the easiest thing, psychologically speaking.

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The reason why part of me was cheering Juliet on in regards to Rosemary is that not once has Juliet disrespected British culture.  It is not British culture to be snotty or elitist.  Such is the purview of the same people that got their heads chopped off in France and carried through the same people that nodded in agreement with Mittens Romney's now infamous 47 percent commentary.  Neither Juliet or Noelle were pissing on the union Jack.  They were acting up for cameras at a fake over stuffy contrived dinner with the Pooh-Bahs.  Millions of Brits could not care less about such stuff.  The idea that somehow Juliet and Noelle exemplify some kind of American crassness in the face of grand aristocratic manners is nothing but a tired worn out trope that hasn't been true since Victoria.  After all rich American heiresses went to British courts to find a relaxed social atmosphere.

 

And Hooliganism is alive and well in the UK.  Where it was invented.  To somehow think this 1 percent rarefied world represent Britain in some cultural divide is no more than the grossly obviously stupidity rendered every time Caroline or Annabelle tried to trot out the "American women are like this versus British women are like this" crap.  Show driven and I guess they felt was needed but how dim do they think the average viewer is to try and break down such over generalizations in the world of the internet and the public, if they want. knowing every little thing about people celebrated and notorious.

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To be fair, those were Caroline's friends and I think one or two of them lived nearby. It was an hour long drive up there which not everyone is going to want to do. 

Yeah, but again, to be fair, the British do not have the best track record of respecting other cultures. Even now, American tourists aren't the only ones people complain about.

For Juliet it was a matter of choice but I find this incredibly stupid advice for someone with an actual food allergy like Noelle. Oh, yes, just eat around the seafood. Oh, your throat is closing up? Well, isn't that inconvenient?

 

I've never in my life heard that about British tourists, and it doesn't forgive, justify, or excuse Juliets behavior.  For one, I have serious questions about Noelle's "food allergy" in that I think it doesn't exist, but assuming that it does, it was a four or five course meal, and shellfish was featured in the appetizer.  If she didn't want to eat around it, she could have waited 20 minutes until the next course.  You can't tell me that as an "international model" Noelle hasn't had to wait a few minutes to eat before.  I would even argue that she has probably waited hours to eat with all of her international modelling experience.  Heck, I would argue most adult women have had to wait hours to eat on certain days.  I have diabetes, and I could have held it together if there was something else on the plate I was allergic to.

The reason why part of me was cheering Juliet on in regards to Rosemary is that not once has Juliet disrespected British culture.  It is not British culture to be snotty or elitist.  Such is the purview of the same people that got their heads chopped off in France and carried through the same people that nodded in agreement with Mittens Romney's now infamous 47 percent commentary.  Neither Juliet or Noelle were pissing on the union Jack.  They were acting up for cameras at a fake over stuffy contrived dinner with the Pooh-Bahs.  Millions of Brits could not care less about such stuff.  The idea that somehow Juliet and Noelle exemplify some kind of American crassness in the face of grand aristocratic manners is nothing but a tired worn out trope that hasn't been true since Victoria.  After all rich American heiresses went to British courts to find a relaxed social atmosphere.

 

And Hooliganism is alive and well in the UK.  Where it was invented.  To somehow think this 1 percent rarefied world represent Britain in some cultural divide is no more than the grossly obviously stupidity rendered every time Caroline or Annabelle tried to trot out the "American women are like this versus British women are like this" crap.  Show driven and I guess they felt was needed but how dim do they think the average viewer is to try and break down such over generalizations in the world of the internet and the public, if they want. knowing every little thing about people celebrated and notorious.

 

I don't think its 1% of the British upper crust.  when I visited London, I noticed the attention to details and manners.  I certainly think that most of the British people I met while in London would know that different behavior is expected at a dinner party thrown at a country estate.  At the wedding I attended everyone I encountered had impeccable manners.  I don't think anyone can know all of London or British society.  I judge based on what I encountered on my visit.  and I think to somehow judge the British by the 1% of people that are hooligans would also be a mistake.  I don't know that Brits are snotty or elitist, but I don't think its snotty or elitist to expect people to have good manners.  I think its expecting of them what you expect of yourself, which I think shows the highest respect and regard.

 

As for British people agreeing with Mitt Romneys comments, I can only think to attribute that to the fact that Britians system of social welfare and social programs are different than our own.

True, but I think that perhaps she was trying to point out, while attempting to save some face, that because she's not from the UK, she's not yet familiar with their more rigid (and probably different) rules of etiquette and is still acclimating.  I agree somewhat with what you're saying about some people not even trying to assimilate, but I'm sure there's probably a point where you feel like some things are being stripped from you, and you desperately try to cling to some of those things just to keep from getting homesick.  My sister adores London, has acclimated beautifully, but still calls me and cries that she misses home.  She just made a massive feast for her office on July 4 because she said that it makes her feel less alone.  So while I can tsk tsk Juliet's behavior, I can also understand that being far away from home isn't the easiest thing, psychologically speaking.

 

And I get that its probably difficult.  Heck, I'm in Chicago for a week and I'm dying to get back home, so I get it.  but your sister has at least tried and made her attempts, and I respect that.  I'm sorry she misses home.  I would be hard pressed to live in another country too, even one as amazing as England.    Everyone is going to be different on the inside and thats fine too.  and if she had just said "hey, I'm getting used to all of this, I'm trying my best"  okay, I would have been with her there.  But it seems like every time someone tells her about something (and some of her behavior would be a bit much for me sitting here in America) her auto response is "well this is who I am!"  I don't feel like anyone is asking Juliet to change her very essence, they mostly sound like they are just asking her to stop being loud and obnoxious IMO at least.

Edited by RealityGal

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But I think most countries, and the US is included, most countries expect some sort of assimilation even as a show of respect for their culture.  Even some sort of effort, but I think that not only does she refuse to put in any effort, but she takes pride in refusing to even try to be respectful of the traditions of the country she lives in.

Just saying, after the colonization, imperialism, and just blatant racism it's a little late to be asking people to respect your culture. As for the tourism comment, I think it's more of an issue for older visitors. It's hard to find statistics for something that's often justified from anecdotal evidence but there's a stereotype of condescension and racism for a reason. I've seen it in action a few times myself. I vaguely remember reading something about hen parties and younger tourists annoying locals in places on the continent... maybe Portugal or something?

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Just saying, after the colonization, imperialism, and just blatant racism it's a little late to be asking people to respect your culture. As for the tourism comment, I think it's more of an issue for older visitors. It's hard to find statistics for something that's often justified from anecdotal evidence but there's a stereotype of condescension and racism for a reason. I've seen it in action a few times myself. I vaguely remember reading something about hen parties and younger tourists annoying locals in places on the continent... maybe Portugal or something?

 

I think every culture can ask for and should (to a point) get respect.  I think America has practiced many of the same things you mention, and I would ask for respect of our culture, and for the things that America holds dear.   The judgment of others is what led to a lot of problems to begin with, so I try to simply respect other culture, unless they are doing something I just can't abide by like a culture that holds dear female genital mutilation or genocide or something along those lines.  I also get concerned when people tell me stereotypes exist for a reason, but then again, I'm a black woman.  As for annoying tourists, I think you could easily find a party of annoying tourists from any country, and apparently it only takes one to make a story.  I'm hoping those in Singapore don't judge Americans based on Michael Fey.

 

But I surely hope it is not the answer that one shouldn't respect British culture and manners because they were colonialists?  Because I think if you decided to withhold respect for the culture of a particular country based on their past you would be hard pressed to respect a lot of different cultures.

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Good manners are just that.  In no way shape or form as a culture are good manners more "British" than they are American.  To say Juliet and Noelle were rude at the dinner is fine and holds truth if not the absolute the show is trying to present.  To try and sell the notion that both were disrespecting the British culture is hogwash.  Just because the Brits still have a class system that includes an outdated and often poorer than average aristocracy does not make them more mannered.  Most British people are loud and crude just like most Americans are.  

 

For me if they just stuck to pointing out that both women aspire to run in a certain segment of British society, with rules and expectations that again are the same at dinners in the US and in France and in Hong Kong and pretty much where wealth prompts aspirational desperation for people to try and elevate themselves at best and remove themselves from the "common man' at usual. 

 

You will note that there is not a single mention of the rules of etiquette in regards to hospitality.  Which is actually the main point of etiquette.  Not to shame and dominate your guests to make them feel welcome and wanted.  No matter how and what they think is the proper form of social interaction.    Yet that would ruin the notion that somehow Juliet and Noelle being crude reality stars hurt widdle biddle Britian's soft feelings.  

 

I've definitely seen enough of every day Brits to know that very very few of them  care or even know an ounce of what this show was trying to sell as the British cultural norm.  And I've seen enough of the Oxbridge Honorable set to know most of them don't have a clue or care as well.   And a few of those that do see it more as a divide than a common ground.  Not to mention those that think manners is what makes other people afford them the respect they think they are due thanks to their birth and lets them do whatever they want.  Just as I've seen little sign of Brits being better mannered as a whole than Americans (and i think looking at the situation as tourists looks it skewed and unrealistically) some of the rudest people I've seen in action are some of the same lofty titled tofts who think since they do know all the rules that gives them leave to break them. 

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That Scot is one rough looking character.  Noelle deserves whatever she gets being wrapped up with this criminal.  Someone needs to tell Caprice the flat straight hair & the warped shit she's doing to her face makes her look like the Crypt Keeper -- and about 85 years old.  Hilarious that she thinks she still looks hot.  Maybe she did -- 10 million years ago.  She's lookin' like Joan Rivers now.

 

Caroline has a face like a duck.  Very distracting cuz I expect her to quack   Didn't care much about the conversation with Caprice & Noelle on the baby shower.  Caprice really thinks Caroline is being cruel?  Er, huh?  Not much chance of this show coming back for another season, eh?  Won't miss it.  Juliet is a ridiculous loser.

Why isn't it coming back? I really enjoy this show. 

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None of the "manners" the expert was trying to impart at the lesson are any different from what my suburban middle class peers and I learned at home as children in the 60s and 70s when we were eating Kraft macaroni and cheese, meatloaf, or fried chicken out of a bucket.

 

Eat your soup with a reasonable amount of delicacy, elbows off the table and eat what's put in front of you at another's table (or at least don't criticize it)  are not exactly obscure exclusionary insider behaviors.  

 

The snottiness came from springing it on them as something being done for their own good, as opposed to asking all of them (not just the chief offenders) if they'd like to do something fun and polish their manners.

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Not much chance of this show coming back for another season, eh?  Won't miss it.  Juliet is a ridiculous loser.

 

Yeah, I would be really surprised if this show came back. I really thought the show would be fun and interesting, but aside from Caroline, everyone is a snooze. The casting was off, imo.

 

I felt awful for Annabelle. My goodness. I hope she's fully recovered now. How awesome was Caroline for bringing over DVDs, a DVD player, and a new television though? So sweet.

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Except for perhaps Marissa, I think all of them have shown poor manners at some point in the series. So I'm not too motivated to choose one side or the other. Plus, a lot of it is amped up for camera time.

 

Annabelle's scenes are preceded by shots of Slades Farm. Is this her residence? On the Internet, Slade's Farm is shown as an equestrian center.

Edited by pasdetrois
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Annabelle's scenes are preceded by shots of Slades Farm. Is this her residence? On the Internet, Slade's Farm is shown as an equestrian center.

 

It also appears to have "Luxury Rooms" available: http://www.sladesfarm.co.uk/

 

So I'd assume she's just staying there while she's recovering? 

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Good manners are just that.  In no way shape or form as a culture are good manners more "British" than they are American.  To say Juliet and Noelle were rude at the dinner is fine and holds truth if not the absolute the show is trying to present.  To try and sell the notion that both were disrespecting the British culture is hogwash.  Just because the Brits still have a class system that includes an outdated and often poorer than average aristocracy does not make them more mannered.  Most British people are loud and crude just like most Americans are.  

 

For me if they just stuck to pointing out that both women aspire to run in a certain segment of British society, with rules and expectations that again are the same at dinners in the US and in France and in Hong Kong and pretty much where wealth prompts aspirational desperation for people to try and elevate themselves at best and remove themselves from the "common man' at usual. 

 

You will note that there is not a single mention of the rules of etiquette in regards to hospitality.  Which is actually the main point of etiquette.  Not to shame and dominate your guests to make them feel welcome and wanted.  No matter how and what they think is the proper form of social interaction.    Yet that would ruin the notion that somehow Juliet and Noelle being crude reality stars hurt widdle biddle Britian's soft feelings.  

 

I've definitely seen enough of every day Brits to know that very very few of them  care or even know an ounce of what this show was trying to sell as the British cultural norm.  And I've seen enough of the Oxbridge Honorable set to know most of them don't have a clue or care as well.   And a few of those that do see it more as a divide than a common ground.  Not to mention those that think manners is what makes other people afford them the respect they think they are due thanks to their birth and lets them do whatever they want.  Just as I've seen little sign of Brits being better mannered as a whole than Americans (and i think looking at the situation as tourists looks it skewed and unrealistically) some of the rudest people I've seen in action are some of the same lofty titled tofts who think since they do know all the rules that gives them leave to break them. 

 

I would be hard pressed to judge the manners of most British people even based on my experience in London, and I would caution the same of anyone else.  However, I have no reason to disbelieve every person on the show that has said that in Britain there is just a way to do things, and a certain expectation of manners and etiquette especially in certain situations.  Which Juliet refuses to even consider to even attempt to do.  In my experience in everyday life, the people I met from London may not have all the dinner forks in the right place, and they may put their elbows on the table and pass food around if its a regular dinner.  A dinner at a country estate is a different matter, and the Londoners I've met realize that at that point the same way you wear a pretty dress to a more formal dinner, is the same way you wear your pretty, going out manners. Caprice has said it and she has lived there for many years, both Annabelle and Caroline say it, and they were born there and have lived there all of their lives.  I'm sure people could say "well, thats a put on for the show" but because it comports and fits with everything I've seen during my time in London, I believe it to be true.  I certainly don't think that during a meal at McDonalds most people that I met would insist upon impeccable manners, but at a formal dinner, yes, I believe they would.  

 

I think that these manners, and the etiquette has become an ingrained part of British culture.  Because America is a land of immigrants that is only 200 years old, we certainly have our own culture, but I dont think its nearly as ingrained because our country has always been a haven for so many different types of people coming from different backgrounds.  Britian is not the same, they haven't had the same history.  So I do think in some way the expectations are uniquely British, although in certain parts of America you still have cotillion, and etiquette lessons and a strict adherence to manners and etiquette.

 

Personally, I would feel ashamed and disrespected if my dinner guests held such little regard for me that they didn't expect the same level of manners from me that they expect from themselves.  I don't feel shame and disrespect when someone expects me to be well mannered and to follow the rules of etiquette at a formal dinner.  

 

I think that good manners will almost always get my respect, it can be lost on any other basis, but I think good manners take effort.  It takes effort to look at your plate and realize that instead of eating your appetizer you'll have to wait for the main course, or to realize they put meat on your plate and you can't eat it.  It takes effort to see that you have all this meat, but you really want more potatoes and not try to swap.  I think good manners is someone putting in the effort to not be rude, and I respect that.  I respect that someone doesn't want to be out in the middle of the street having a yelling match, I respect that.  Now that doesn't mean that if I see you club a baby seal you won't lose my respect, but still.

 

This show isn't filmed in France or in Hong Kong (which was a british colony if I understand correctly, so their manners while unique to Hong Kong would probably reflect those of Britain, IMO).  If it were filmed in either of those places you might find the "ladies" saying the same thing in terms of manners and etiquette.

None of the "manners" the expert was trying to impart at the lesson are any different from what my suburban middle class peers and I learned at home as children in the 60s and 70s when we were eating Kraft macaroni and cheese, meatloaf, or fried chicken out of a bucket.

 

Eat your soup with a reasonable amount of delicacy, elbows off the table and eat what's put in front of you at another's table (or at least don't criticize it)  are not exactly obscure exclusionary insider behaviors.  

 

The snottiness came from springing it on them as something being done for their own good, as opposed to asking all of them (not just the chief offenders) if they'd like to do something fun and polish their manners.

 

I think it was Caroline trying to make a point.  I don't remember her discussing Juliet or Noelle's behavior specifically with them so perhaps only inviting the two of them to the etiquette lesson was her way of telling them without telling them that they behaved poorly.  I think towards the end of the etiquette lesson Caroline addressed it head on with both of them.  That allowed her to address what she felt was bad behavior with just the two of them.  I think if she had called them on the phone and said "what happened at the dinner, why were you guys passing food and running off to the kitchen to ask for soup?"  I don't know that either of them would have gotten it.  I think you would have just heard loud denials and defenses from Juliet.  It also, for the most part allowed the etiquette expert to be the "bad guy." I think if Caroline had invited everyone out to etiquette lesson neither Juliet or Noelle would understand that it was a response to their behavior at the dinner.  And Juliet seems mostly like a person that you can't give subtle hints to.  Marissa seems like the type of person that would think "gosh, Caroline is inviting me to this thing, did she think I did something wrong at dinner?"  Juliet, and to a lesser degree Noelle, doesn't seem to have that level of self awareness.

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I would be hard pressed to judge the manners of most British people even based on my experience in London, and I would caution the same of anyone else.  However, I have no reason to disbelieve every person on the show that has said that in Britain there is just a way to do things, and a certain expectation of manners and etiquette especially in certain situations.  Which Juliet refuses to even consider to even attempt to do.  In my experience in everyday life, the people I met from London may not have all the dinner forks in the right place, and they may put their elbows on the table and pass food around if its a regular dinner.  A dinner at a country estate is a different matter, and the Londoners I've met realize that at that point the same way you wear a pretty dress to a more formal dinner, is the same way you wear your pretty, going out manners. Caprice has said it and she has lived there for many years, both Annabelle and Caroline say it, and they were born there and have lived there all of their lives.  I'm sure people could say "well, thats a put on for the show" but because it comports and fits with everything I've seen during my time in London, I believe it to be true.  I certainly don't think that during a meal at McDonalds most people that I met would insist upon impeccable manners, but at a formal dinner, yes, I believe they would. 

I think that these manners, and the etiquette has become an ingrained part of British culture.  Because America is a land of immigrants that is only 200 years old, we certainly have our own culture, but I dont think its nearly as ingrained because our country has always been a haven for so many different types of people coming from different backgrounds.  Britian is not the same, they haven't had the same history.  So I do think in some way the expectations are uniquely British, although in certain parts of America you still have cotillion, and etiquette lessons and a strict adherence to manners and etiquette.

My perspective may be skewed because while I love all that rot with the royals and adore period pieces, I am also highly aware of the stand up, X Factor, quiz show, Big Brother, The Only Way is Essex crowd. It makes it hard to believe that etiquette is an ingrained part of the culture.

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I like Caroline, but apparently she cannot go anywhere without her make-up artist in tow. Whatever happened to the oversized purse idea?

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Marisa is by far the best dressed I've seen on one of these shows.  Always looks adorable.  Juliet looked good when they went out to the nightclub, but a wreck every other time she's on screen.

 

Noelle.  This woman and her faux British accent is so fucking irritating.  I love how she pointed out Scot's former residence.  Yes honey we all know you wished you had been with him then.  That's what you're hoping to eventually get.  Joke is on you and your ridiculous eyebrows and Finding Nemo lips.

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Had we seen previously that Caroline is married with children? That surprised me because I didn't recall reference to it in earlier episodes.

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My perspective may be skewed because while I love all that rot with the royals and adore period pieces, I am also highly aware of the stand up, X Factor, quiz show, Big Brother, The Only Way is Essex crowd. It makes it hard to believe that etiquette is an ingrained part of the culture.

 

 

I think there is much more acknowledgement of class - at least traditionally - in the UK as the US tends to buy into the myth of egalitarianism. The US doesn't have royalty but it does (or did) have a segment of society. The Social Register in the US was (and is) a real thing and among the "old money" set, there is just as much emphasis on bloodlines and formal rules of etiquette as the UK - albeit without the extreme etiquette that prevails in a formal court setting.

 

I spent a fair amount of time among the traditional WASP upper class in both NY and the South - the South at one time being closer to the British social caste system in which impoverished Southern aristocracy could still get their daughters into the St Cecilia Cotillion and new money had no chance of really cracking into it.

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Had we seen previously that Caroline is married with children? That surprised me because I didn't recall reference to it in earlier episodes.

 

Yeah her kids have been shown a couple times, and in one of the previous episodes there was a scene when she was eating breakfast with her husband. That's when she was talking about how he spends every other week in Kazakhstan. 

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Marisa is by far the best dressed I've seen on one of these shows.  Always looks adorable.  Juliet looked good when they went out to the nightclub, but a wreck every other time she's on screen.

 

Noelle.  This woman and her faux British accent is so fucking irritating.  I love how she pointed out Scot's former residence.  Yes honey we all know you wished you had been with him then.  That's what you're hoping to eventually get.  Joke is on you and your ridiculous eyebrows and Finding Nemo lips.

 

Here is what confuses me about Noelle.  In one breath she is adament that she loves Scot for Scot and that she is no golddigger, and how dare you even think such a thing.  She is with Scot because he is amazing, and love is blind, and she is a self made woman who doesn't need a man for his money.  Scot is just her type  because she has always been into men that vaguely resemble a garden gnome.  But then in the next breath she is letting you know exactly how much she thinks about Scot's money, and how she somehow could have had it all if she had just been around a few years ago.

Edited by RealityGal
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I would so love it if her Garden Gnome boyfriend (I love that comment!) never gets or makes another dime and she lives a life pining after the money he used to have.

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