S01.E07: Shiv Part One

[tessaray]

Air date: June 29, 2020

Quote

Pat tries to teach Courtney, Yolanda, Beth and Rick the importance of teamwork; as the school prepares for homecoming, Cindy lashes out against her father's strict rules; Barbara accepts an offer from Jordan.

 

 

 

[paulvdb]

Pat, you're too experienced to make that rookie superhero mistake of using Courtney's real name. Of course Cindy is even worse, having a costume that doesn't even make any attempt to hide her face.

Maybe Cindy and Courtney should form a support group for teen superheroes and supervillains whose (step)parents don't think they're ready yet.

[Starfish35]

So did I understand that right that Cindy accidentally killed her mom at age four? Or no, wait, Beth said 4th Grade, not age 4, I think. Yikes.  Cindy’s had a pretty messed up life.  Even her relationship with Henry is apparently on orders from her dad.  And ok, there’s no way Cindy and Courtney didn’t recognize each other, right?

Courtney really acted like a total brat when Pat was trying to train the team. I don’t blame the other kids for being mad at her.  Hopefully this will finally knock some sense into her head.

Mike is jealous of Courtney spending so much time with Pat, not surprising.  And Barbara’s starting to get a hint that Pat and Courtney are keeping secrets.  Wonder how long they’ll drag that one out.  On another show, I’d think they were setting up for Barbara and Jordan to have an affair, but I don’t think they’ll go there on this show.  I’m not sure they’re not going to have Jordan fall in love with Barbara though.  

And so the janitor is a good guy, not an ISA member.  If he recognizes Pat, maybe even a former JSA member.  His speech to Cindy that even bad books have a bit of good in them (or something like that)...are we supposed to take that as a hint that Cindy can be redeemed possibly?  

Edited June 29, 2020 by Starfish35

[readster]

5 hours ago, paulvdb said:

Pat, you're too experienced to make that rookie superhero mistake of using Courtney's real name. Of course Cindy is even worse, having a costume that doesn't even make any attempt to hide her face.

Maybe Cindy and Courtney should form a support group for teen superheroes and supervillains whose (step)parents don't think they're ready yet.

Of course look at Brainwave, well known doctor and he doesn't even try to hide his face and the Wizard had to get rid of his costume to keep him from being discovered. Same with the Gambler, he just wears a hat and a suit. Least with Icicle, he distorts his face and Tigress does the face paint and ties her hair back.  

[Primal Slayer]

17 hours ago, paulvdb said:

Pat, you're too experienced to make that rookie superhero mistake of using Courtney's real name. Of course Cindy is even worse, having a costume that doesn't even make any attempt to hide her face.

Maybe Cindy and Courtney should form a support group for teen superheroes and supervillains whose (step)parents don't think they're ready yet.

IIn his defense though....idt he knew Courtney was suited up as he was calling her name? 

But wow, this was a GREAT episode. Each of their villains they've been able to give just enough depth to that they there is at least one aspect of them you can care about and they continued to do it here with Cindy. The revelation that she's dating Brainwave Jr. as part of a master plan was a nice reveal as was her just killing one of those clones or whatever she killed after she entered the ISA HQ. 

I love Courtney, I think she is probably my favorite DC lead of any of the DC tv shows. She's cocky but it doesnt annoy me. The training sequence with the team was good since Courtney needs a reminder not to be a show off and that...you have a team now. 

Stargirl vs. Cindy was so.freaking.good! Only part I didnt like was that Cindy was so nonchalant with her identity. Stargirl and co. have only had small wins thus far after the 1 major win (taking out Brainwave) and I'm glad they are doing it the way they are. Villains have to be good at their job instead of getting their butts kicked every round with the hero. 

The Janitors true identity was all but revealed with that sword. I'm interested to see his backstory since he isnt part of the JSA we knew.

[MarkHB]

1 hour ago, Primal Slayer said:

IIn his defense though....idt he knew Courtney was suited up as he was calling her name? 

The staff came and got him, so I also thought he should have been calling for Stargirl.

You could probably write 32 pages just laying out Cindy's layers of damage. 

[AnimeMania]

I just want to go on the record as saying it is "wrong" for the Dragon King to brainwash hot sexy young women to be Cindy's mother. But, if he was going to hold a seminar, I would like to RSVP in advance.

Does the Dragon King have a normal face, so that he can mingle in town with the rest of society or is he always plotting from the shadows? 

[ottoDbusdriver]

So Cindy is basically a female version of Wolverine -- regenerative healing abilities and an affection for knives/claws -- created by her father.

And for good measure, her father creates his own minions (2 weeks to grow a new one, so we were told).

The fight sequence between Cindy and Courtney was pretty badass.

[MissLucas]

I really appreciate how this show is giving nuance to its villains: Icicle is being a great Dad (so far) and the scene where he handed out good advice while casually admitted to murder was fantastic and also a bit whiplash-inducing, he!

Same goes for Cindy:

22 hours ago, MarkHB said:

You could probably write 32 pages just laying out Cindy's layers of damage. 

sums it up nicely!

And I appreciate that the family dynamics are not forgotten. Both Mike and Barabara had something to say about the power-duo of Courtney and Pat. Speaking of Courtney: glad she's not always the perfect teenager and this episode really made that point. I thought after last week she'd be more willing to listen to Pat. Oh well, maybe a good beating by *insert Cindy's moniker* will do the trick.

No giggling pink pen this week - wise janitor was there to provide mystery!

Edited June 30, 2020 by MissLucas

[peachmangosteen]

This has really nothing to do with this ep but I just binged all the eps so far and I have a question: Is Icicle's son the guy that was at the cafeteria table with Beth and Yolanda in the first ep? Or was that the Hourman kid? Or neither lol?

Anyway, I love this show. It's so fun.

[Starfish35]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

Or was that the Hourman kid?

The Hourman kid.  

[AimingforYoko]

I know it's not Cindy's fault she's a psycho. But she is a psycho, and she has to go away.

I thought she was going to end up disfigured, and then she'd have a personal reason to hate Stargirl. I should've known her dad would make her more durable than that.

[Jediknight]

Courtney is still way too cocky for her own good.  Listen to Pat, Courtney.  Even Tony Stark when it came to a battle or who the better leader of the Avengers was, always deferred to Steve.  The staff may give you more power, but that doesn't mean you know everything.

The show has done great casting for everybody, except for one character.  All the teens, look like teens, except for one character.  Cameron looks like if he were hanging around a high school, the cops would be called in 15 seconds.  That's been the only misstep, dude does not look like a teenager, hell, dude doesn't even look like he'd still be in Med School.

There are certain people born to play certain superheroes.  Chris Evans was born to be Cap, Gal Gadot was born to be Diana, Robert Downey Jr as Tony, and Luke Wilson was destined to be Pat.

[KittenPokerCheater]

I am not cool with Cindy/Shiv being abusive to her stepmother (still not sure if she's a robot or a brainwashed human). I don't care that her father is a tool- it's not an excuse.

Domestic violence is crossing a line.  

Sadly, I think the character is a series regular, much to my disgust, but I would be fine if she was written off the show immediately.

Cameron has got the cute/broody thing down pat- he checks all the boxes.  And I wonder how the janitor (who is he?) knows Stripsey. 

[thuganomics85]

A few weeks ago, I foolishly said that Cindy was like Cheryl Blossom from Riverdale, but nope: she's apparently ten times more violent and deadly, which might be the most terrifying thing ever!  So, she's the daughter of Dr. Ito from the ISA, but unlike the rest of the villains' children, she not only knows who they really are, but she's actually wanting a "seat at the table."  Already has a bodycount and everything.  It certainly sounds like she had something horrific happen to her in the past (concerning her mother), but she really is on another level compared to the likes of Henry Jr. or Sportmaster/Tigress' daughter, and I don't know if she can ever escape the dark path she's on.

Oh, Courtney!  Still love you, but you really were too cocky for your own good and this was another rude awakening for you.  Taking out a bunch of mock dummies is completely different from fighting actual villains.  And even if there is any truth to being a step ahead of everyone else, the JSA needs to work as a team to succeed, and she isn't going to endear herself to Yolanda, Rick, and Beth if she acts like she's better than them.  Of course, a lot of this boils down to teenage brattiness, but this just happens to be a case where being impulsive and short-sighted can end with you laying bleeding and bruised after getting your ass handed to you by a mean girl turned super villain!

Accidentally calling Courtney by name aside (in front of Cindy), I'm enjoying Mentor/Teacher Pat, and how he is interacting with the rest of the JSA.  Considering the troubled family life for most of the JSA (outside of Beth, who is too reliant on her parents), it would be cool if this leads to Pat bonding with both Yolanda and Rick some more as well.  As usual, Luke Wilson is perfection in the role.

Interesting set-ups for both Mike and Barbara finally.  Mike is noticing that Courtney and Pat are spending a lot of time together and isn't happy about it.  Meanwhile, not only is Barbara noticing some of their secrets, but seems to be getting singled out by Jordan/Icicle a lot at work.  Curious to see how that all works out.

Hey, Jordan actually gave some good advice to his son about asking a girl out!  You know, if one where to look past all of the murder, plotting, general criminal activities, more murder, and plan to take over the world, the ISA team might be fun to hang out with at a party!  Just regular parents trying to do what is best for their kids!  I bet they have good barbecues!  At the very least, Jordan probably makes sure the drinks are always chilled.

Henry Jr.'s Brainwave powers are getting stronger and seem to play a part in the grand plan.  Until then, he's using his skills for simpler goals: passing tests at school!

Mysterious janitor keeps a sword along with his brooms and mops, bails Courtney out, and recognizes Pat as Stripes.  Hmm...

[mxc90]

I wonder what would happen if Henry ever decided to breakup with Cindy. It's Cindy's job to be with him.

Cindy seems to have everyone's cell number. Must be her other special power.

If Cindy is not allowed down the basement, why was she given the security code to the door?

Cindy believes the kids in the high School will do anything she says? She is delusional.

Courtney little lesson from the end of last week to listen to Pat didn't last long. 

I had to laugh at Beth for being pissed at Courtney for not training that day. If Pat can make a fighter out of her, he is a genius.

Cindy killed her mother?

Icicle said he killed the man pursuing his wife. Pat you better watch out.

It was daytime when Pat, Courtney and Mike were in the stands. Kickoff was at night.

Just last week, Mike didn't want Pat or anyone to come to the exhibit. This week, he is complaining to Courtney for his attention.

Did Artemis' parents scare the opponents to not tackle her.

Cindy just leaves the game to go home because Courtney declined Saturday??? Does she live next door the high school to get back so fast? When was it established Cindy is a cheerleader?

Where did the principal go? How many exits can that secret passage lead to in that town (ISA headquarters and the villain's homes must be real close).

I guess Mike is really going to be pissed at Courtney now that he had to home from the game alone. 

I would love to see a good little friendship between Cindy and Courtney before they fought. This fight came too quick.

So the ISA adults couldn't kick Stargirl's ass, It took Cindy to accomplish this. Give the girl a seat at the table and make sure she has a mask ( Courtney recognized her immediately).

What exactly knocked out Stargirl? At the end, her hands were burnt and she took maybe one serious blow. So did she pass out for being out of shape?

The comic staff couldn't jump in save Stargirl but it had energy to fly away to get Pat. Unreal! That's the second time someone had to jump in and save Stargirl from doom.

The blue filter was way too heavy in auditorium fight.

Pat running in the room yelling "Courtney" 3 times, is Cindy going figure this out?

No one wanted to answer the question of how many seconds in 45 minutes for extra credit. Not even the smartest one in the room? Henry has the greatest power if he wants to cheat on a test!

So the parking lot, cars and school buses were damaged a few episodes ago and now the school auditorium. When is the police going to get involved?  

Pat has a nice clear picture of Tigress. Can Beth's googles see who she is?

Good luck Pat explaining Courtney's bruises to Barbara this time.

Edited July 1, 2020 by mxc90

[Josh371982]

1 hour ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

I am not cool with Cindy/Shiv being abusive to her stepmother (still not sure if she's a robot or a brainwashed human). I don't care that her father is a tool- it's not an excuse.

Domestic violence is crossing a line.  

Sadly, I think the character is a series regular, much to my disgust, but I would be fine if she was written off the show immediately.

Cameron has got the cute/broody thing down pat- he checks all the boxes.  And I wonder how the janitor (who is he?) knows Stripsey. 

 

1 hour ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

I am not cool with Cindy/Shiv being abusive to her stepmother (still not sure if she's a robot or a brainwashed human). I don't care that her father is a tool- it's not an excuse.

Domestic violence is crossing a line.  

Sadly, I think the character is a series regular, much to my disgust, but I would be fine if she was written off the show immediately.

Cameron has got the cute/broody thing down pat- he checks all the boxes.  And I wonder how the janitor (who is he?) knows Stripsey. 

Cindy/Shiv I believe will probably be Courtney's archenemy. And OF FUCKING COURSE Cameron likes Courtney cause god forbid the tired trope of Villain's son wants to Date his dad's enemy doesn't happen in yet another show . I'm also not surprised in fact I called it earlier this season that Jordan would like Barbara. So there's Drama when he finds out Shes Married to Stripesy and that her baby Girl is Stargirl.

[Josh371982]

Mike literally says to Courtney a big reason why I dont like her and her stepfather sharing a big secret and spending a lot of time together. Hopefully Mike and Barbara find out Pat and Courtney are Superhero'ing. To a fellow poster I see no reason why this show would have Barbara cheat on Pat, it's more likely Icicle has a thing for Barbara and I bet he finds out about Pat and Courtney and just might tell Barbara. Of course Cindy just might be spilling the beans to her dad soon to get a spot on the table, also Brainwave or his son may find out as well. The Fight between Stargirl and Shiv was badass. I'm loving the fights on this show 

[MissLucas]

1 hour ago, thuganomics85 said:

Beth, who is too reliant on her parents

The show actually subverted that dynamic a bit this episode, when her parents rather sheepishly asked Beth if she had made them lunch.

[shapeshifter]

15 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

The fight sequence between Cindy and Courtney was pretty badass.

I guess it's official that I am not a real superhero fan. I find the fight scenes boring.

 

 

1 hour ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

Cameron has got the cute/broody thing down pat- he checks all the boxes.  

Rick Tyler/Cameron Gellman reminds me of Luke Perry.

 

 

1 hour ago, thuganomics85 said:

Considering the troubled family life for most of the JSA (outside of Beth, who is too reliant on her parents),

Did anyone else think it was odd that Beth's parents *expected* her to have a meal prepared?

 

 

1 hour ago, thuganomics85 said:

Mike is noticing that Courtney and Pat are spending a lot of time together and isn't happy about it.  Meanwhile, not only is Barbara noticing some of their secrets, but seems to be getting singled out by Jordan/Icicle a lot at work.  Curious to see how that all works out.

27 minutes ago, Josh371982 said:

likely Icicle has a thing for Barbara and I bet he finds out about Pat and Courtney and just might tell Barbara.

It *does* seem likely that Icicle will spill the beans to Barbara about Pat teaching her daughter how to fight etc., but I was imagining more of a Riverdale-esque soap opera with Barbara leaving Pat for Icicle and taking Court with her. 

 

[DC Fan]

1 hour ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

I am not cool with Cindy/Shiv being abusive to her stepmother (still not sure if she's a robot or a brainwashed human). I don't care that her father is a tool- it's not an excuse.

Domestic violence is crossing a line.  

Sadly, I think the character is a series regular, much to my disgust, but I would be fine if she was written off the show immediately.

Cameron has got the cute/broody thing down pat- he checks all the boxes.  And I wonder how the janitor (who is he?) knows Stripsey. 

Spoiler;  I'm pretty sure the janitor is the Shining Knight, one of the 7 Soldiers of Victory.  Pat was part of that team, back when Starman was still the Star-Spangled Kid, so of course Sir Justin recognized him.  Wonder why he's in Blue Valley, though?  

[Lantern7]

"What If . . . Veruca Salt decided that world domination was more important than a trip to a chocolate factory?"

Jeez, Cindy isn't messed-up. She is genuine evil. The only person that can boss her around is her hood-wearing father, and you just know that's not going to last long. Sure, she looks like she belongs in a box with "MY FIRST ARCH-VILLAIN" slapped on the side, but she does make a good compliment to Courtney.

The kids need to work on team skills. Individually, I think Courtney and Yolanda are good. Rick probably needs to work on fighting over brawling. Beth? She needs so much help. I mean, she's cute and all, but it's like you can't stare at her for too long without getting a headache. And I don't want to think what would happen if the owl gets involved. "Chuck, do you know where I can buy lots and lots of rodents?"

Finally getting the deal of the janitor. Of course, since this is Blue Valley, he has a sword in his closet. Side note: have there been metal detectors shown at the entrances of the school? Maybe Principal Bowin thinks that if the shit hits the fan, she'd have her fiddle and the mentally-damaged sword-wielding janitor.

[paulvdb]

21 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Did anyone else think it was odd that Beth's parents *expected* her to have a meal prepared?

Based on what we've seen of Beth it would not surprise me if she prepared a family meals regularly. Her parents seem to be very busy so if she wants to eat breakfast, lunch or dinner with them it will be up to her to take care of that.

[AnimeMania]

1 hour ago, Josh371982 said:

To a fellow poster I see no reason why this show would have Barbara cheat on Pat, it's more likely Icicle has a thing for Barbara and I bet he finds out about Pat and Courtney and just might tell Barbara.

I would like to see Icicle try to court Barbara, but first he has to kill her husband. Then Icicle finds out that Stripesy is more than a match for him.

[Josh371982]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

I guess it's official that I am not a real superhero fan. I find the fight scenes boring.

 

 

Rick Tyler/Cameron Gellman reminds me of Luke Perry.

 

 

Did anyone else think it was odd that Beth's parents *expected* her to have a meal prepared?

 

 

It *does* seem likely that Icicle will spill the beans to Barbara about Pat teaching her daughter how to fight etc., but I was imagining more of a Riverdale-esque soap opera with Barbara leaving Pat for Icicle and taking Court with her. 

 

Ugh that would be gross and horrible. Barbara and Pat aren't even having problems and thank god this isn't Riverdale. 

9 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

I would like to see Icicle try to court Barbara, but first he has to kill her husband. Then Icicle finds out that Stripesy is more than a match for him.

That would be awesome. But Pat doesn't have any powers ☹

[tennisgurl]

So Cindy isnt just a regular mean girl, she is actually a future supervillain and daughter of the creepy reptile IJS guy with a serious murderous streak! She just screams "Courtney's arch nemesis" as loud as her and Courtney's big fight scene. That home situation, whatever it is with her step mom who she is horrible to and might be another experiment or brainwashed minion and her possibly (accidentally?) killing her mom as a child and Dr. Ito doing experiments on Cindy to give her powers and sending her off to date with Henry Jr, is a serious horror show. At least the other villain parents have tried to be decent parents and give their kids a good life, in their dysfunctional villain ways, but Cindy is just an absolute hot mess. 

Icicle is actually a pretty good parent, and gave his son some good advice...while also implying he murdered a guy who was also into his wife. What a guy!

The fight between Cindy and Courtney wasnt as good as last weeks big fight, but was still a ton of fun, even if things went badly for Courtney again. I like that Courtney makes mistakes and keeps jumping into situations she isnt ready for, either out of arrogance or lack of foresight, she is still a teenager after all, and one that is still very new to all of this. I dont blame the rest of the team for being annoyed with her at Pats DIY training session, she still has to figure out how to be a team player/leader. I would normally say that Pat calling out Courtney's name while she is still in her costume, but he was probably super freaked out, not only seeing Courtney badly hurt, but it probably brought back bad memories of him watching the first Starman die. 

Everyone is so excited to be a part of the JSA, they even get to start the day with a power walk! Yolanda hugging her mask was super cute, as was Beth doing karaoke with Chuck. I hope that eventually Pat can spend some more time with the other JSA kids, Yolanda and Rick could really use some positive parental figures. Luke Wilson is so good as Pat, he is just such a dad.  

I like that they continuing to explore the new dynamics with Courtney's family and how its affecting everyone. I appreciate that they remember that Mike is getting used to a new living situation as much as Courtney is, and is even younger than her, and its hard for him to suddenly be sharing his dad with another kid, after (I am guessing) years just with him and his dad. I can see him feeling left out with Pat spending so much time with Courtney, while Barbara can tell that they're keeping secrets. 

Henry Jr might be a jerk, but I feel rather sad for him. He is miserable and depressed about his fathers coma, his girlfriend is only dating him as part of supervillain plot (and isnt exactly supportive of his problems) and now he has new telepathic powers coming in and has no clue what is happening. 

Sportsmaster engages in his most villainous behavior yet...being That Guy who guilts you about breaking your diet! 

So I am pretty sure that I now know who the Janitor is. I dont want to say yet, but if it is who I think it is...I am super interested in seeing where he fits into all of this. 

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, paulvdb said:

4 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Did anyone else think it was odd that Beth's parents *expected* her to have a meal prepared?

Based on what we've seen of Beth it would not surprise me if she prepared a family meals regularly. Her parents seem to be very busy so if she wants to eat breakfast, lunch or dinner with them it will be up to her to take care of that.

Sure. But there was something about the tone of the delivery of the where’s-lunch line. It was kind of like out of a fairytale. No?

 

 

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I hope that eventually Pat can spend some more time with the other JSA kids, Yolanda and Rick could really use some positive parental figures. Luke Wilson is so good as Pat, he is just such a dad. 

Pat is such a terrific role model for a dad that he puts Smallville’s Mr. Kent to shame, heh. Seriously.

Maybe the janitor is supposed to look old enough to be the dad of one of the dead JSA superheroes?

[AnimeMania]

5 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

9 hours ago, paulvdb said:

9 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Did anyone else think it was odd that Beth's parents *expected* her to have a meal prepared?

Based on what we've seen of Beth it would not surprise me if she prepared a family meals regularly. Her parents seem to be very busy so if she wants to eat breakfast, lunch or dinner with them it will be up to her to take care of that.

Sure. But there was something about the tone of the delivery of the where’s-lunch line. It was kind of like out of a fairytale. No?

No, it makes perfect sense, if they have a Skype/Zoom lunch together everyday, everybody has to be eating the same thing. That would be part of what you talk about since much couldn't have happened in the (5?) hours since you had breakfast together.

8 hours ago, Josh371982 said:

8 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

I would like to see Icicle try to court Barbara, but first he has to kill her husband. Then Icicle finds out that Stripesy is more than a match for him.

That would be awesome. But Pat doesn't have any powers ☹

That would be the best part. Icicle is targeting Pat (to steal his woman and as a non-super), so he does something subtle that anybody would think was an accident except Pat, who thinks that somehow Icicle figured out who he is (Stripesy) and is trying to take him out. Pat using the data he collected on Icicle, along with a brilliant plan devised by Dr. Mid-Nite, take down Icicle since Icicle is still only slightly using his powers to keep Pat's suspicious death from looking like murder.  

[KittenPokerCheater]

8 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Henry Jr might be a jerk, but I feel rather sad for him. He is miserable and depressed about his fathers coma.

Me too.

[kirinan]

9 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

So I am pretty sure that I now know who the Janitor is. I dont want to say yet, but if it is who I think it is...I am super interested in seeing where he fits into all of this. 

I know who I want the janitor to be--it kind of came to me in a flash last night--but I'm never right about that kind of stuff, so I'm not going to get too invested in my guess.

I don't think it mattered that Pat was calling Courtney's name, because come on--Cindy's craftier (and eviller) than just about anyone on this show. How could she NOT recognize Courtney's hair? Speaking of Courtney...I'm really glad I am: a) no longer a teenage girl, and b) have no teenagers. I spent much of the episode not liking Courtney very much (although I do love her normally).

And speaking of Pat, he is my favorite character on this show, bar none. Luke Wilson is just perfection.

Last, I was kind of tickled to see that this episode was directed by Lorraine McFly herself, Lea Thompson. I thought she did a great job. I wanted to make sure it was THAT Lea Thompson, so I looked it up on IMDB, and was surprised to see she's been doing a LOT of directing for the past decade or more.

Edited July 1, 2020 by kirinan

[peachmangosteen]

14 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

The Hourman kid.  

Thank you! I know him and Icicle's son don't really look that much alike but for some reason I kept getting them mixed up. I also initially got Brainwave and Icicle mixed up even though Brainwave has red hair lol.

13 hours ago, Jediknight said:

The show has done great casting for everybody, except for one character.  All the teens, look like teens, except for one character.  Cameron looks like if he were hanging around a high school, the cops would be called in 15 seconds.  That's been the only misstep, dude does not look like a teenager, hell, dude doesn't even look like he'd still be in Med School.

I think both the boys, Cameron and Rick (I think that's Hourman kid's name, right?), look much older than the girls with Cameron definitely looking the oldest. Speaking of Cameron, I already don't like him and I'm afraid I'm gonna end up hating him. He just does nothing for me and him and Courtney have no chem imo. Over it already lol.

11 hours ago, MissLucas said:

The show actually subverted that dynamic a bit this episode, when her parents rather sheepishly asked Beth if she had made them lunch.

I kinda liked it because they had been making it seem like Beth is such a loser and her parents are almost ashamed of her and yet there they were being kinda sad that she wasn't clinging to them anymore. 

[Starfish35]

31 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Thank you! I know him and Icicle's son don't really look that much alike but for some reason I kept getting them mixed up

I got them a little confused at first too.  

32 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I think both the boys, Cameron and Rick (I think that's Hourman kid's name, right?), look much older than the girls with Cameron definitely looking the oldest.

I agree with this.  I don’t think Rick would look as old as he does except for the receding hairline thing though.  😂

34 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

yet there they were being kinda sad that she wasn't clinging to them anymore. 

I’ll have to go back and watch it again, but I kinda read that scene not so much as sadness, but as kind of a “huh, what’s going on with you?” perplexity.  Not alarm, just kind of a mild confusion.  Like...this is not normal behavior for their clingy daughter. 

[peachmangosteen]

5 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

I’ll have to go back and watch it again, but I kinda read that scene not so much as sadness, but as kind of a “huh, what’s going on with you?” perplexity.  Not alarm, just kind of a mild confusion.  Like...this is not normal behavior for their clingy daughter. 

Yea, thinking about it, this does make more sense.

5 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

I don’t think Rick would look as old as he does except for the receding hairline thing though.  😂

You're not wrong lol!

[MissLucas]

19 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

I agree with this.  I don’t think Rick would look as old as he does except for the receding hairline thing though.  😂

He looks a bit like the lovechild of John Cusack and Nicolas Cage. If you google Cameron* Gellman you can see that he looks younger and less 'juvenile delinquent' with differently styled hair. Guess the hair and make-up department (they've also done something with his eyebrows) decided the character needed a higher visible testosterone level and overdid it slightly.

*I got really confused with the discussion up-thread because I had not realized that we're talking in-show Cameron.

[peachmangosteen]

5 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

*I got really confused with the discussion up-thread because I had not realized that we're talking in-show Cameron.

Right! I already can't tell the two guys apart and now I learn the one not playing Cameron is named Cameron. Fucking hell!

I just looked at his pics on IMDb and he really does look much younger in them than he does on the show.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

2 hours ago, MissLucas said:

*I got really confused with the discussion up-thread because I had not realized that we're talking in-show Cameron.

Right! I already can't tell the two guys apart and now I learn the one not playing Cameron is named Cameron. Fucking hell!

I was mixed up too. 
Apparently: 

• Hunter Sansone plays Cameron Mahkent (son of Jordan Mahkent/Icicle) is darker complected, has prominent ears, and has a smile that should knock off Courtney's socks, and he seems like a nice guy

• Cameron Gellman plays Rick Tyler/new young Hourman (aka Rick Harris after his angry uncle/guardian) looks like James Dean or young Luke Perry (to me)

[marketdoctor]

Quote

Jeez, Cindy isn't messed-up. She is genuine evil.

I liked how this was acted and directed*, but yes, she's got layers of evil--some brought on by her Dad, some from circumstance, and some of her own--and it was clever to go from her being sad about her dead Mom to being the cause of that.

* I checked; it's directed the same Lea Thompson that was in Back to the Future and Caroline in the City, etc.

 

 

 

[rmontro]

On 6/29/2020 at 1:45 AM, paulvdb said:

Pat, you're too experienced to make that rookie superhero mistake of using Courtney's real name. Of course Cindy is even worse, having a costume that doesn't even make any attempt to hide her face.

To be fair to Pat, he didn't really know she was in costume, although the presence of the staff might have tipped him off.

I keep thinking that everyone would guess who Stargirl is, just because her hair is so distinctive. 

On 6/30/2020 at 7:13 AM, ottoDbusdriver said:

So Cindy is basically a female version of Wolverine -- regenerative healing abilities and an affection for knives/claws -- created by her father.

Good point, looks like Courtney's in for a hard time.  Cindy was actually likable for a brief time, when she was wanting to hang out with Courtney.  I guess it was kind of crappy of Courtney to blow her off for a date, but it happens.  Cindy's aptitude for science and access to gadgets makes it more likely that she was the one who got Yolanda to send the risque pics to Henry.

I'm loving this show.  I figured I'd watch a few episodes and be out, but I'm all in right now.  I don't know how long they can keep this quality up, I'm sure it will fall off at some point, but so far it's great.  

I like to watch TV with the captions on, and some of the mistakes are kind of humorous.  Instead of "Hourman", the caption said "our man".  

[shapeshifter]

Courtney reminds me of myself in school WRT on the one hand trying to befriend the outcasts and the friendless, but on the other hand wanting to show off and enthusiastically saying things that unintentionally hurt others and/or make them mad. So I will likely stick with it to the bitter end just like I did with OG Roswell because Liz was like high school me in other ways. 

 

1 hour ago, rmontro said:

I like to watch TV with the captions on, and some of the mistakes are kind of humorous.  Instead of "Hourman", the caption said "our man".  

Hee! I have captions on too. I missed that one, but I’ll look for it next time.  

[Terrafamilia]

What Pat should have said: "Congratulations, Courtney, you've just defeated a bucket. I'm so proud of you."

[shapeshifter]

4 minutes ago, Terrafamilia said:

What Pat should have said: "Congratulations, Courtney, you've just defeated a bucket. I'm so proud of you."

Yes, except dear Pat would never say anything snarky, right?

[AnimeMania]

3 hours ago, rmontro said:

Cindy's aptitude for science and access to gadgets makes it more likely that she was the one who got Yolanda to send the risque pics to Henry.

There is way more to the story than just that. Since Dragon King was the one that told Cindy to date Henry, but Henry was dating Yolanda, that means that the entire ISA was at Cindy's disposal. Could the ISA have come up with the plan to break up Henry and Yolanda. Could The Gambler spoof a text from Henry to Yolanda for the nude pics. Could The Gambler or Principal Fiddler know the cell phone number of every kid in school and leak said picture. Could Principal Fiddler know the exact time to leak said photograph. Cindy didn't have to lift a finger, all she had to do was watch and laugh as Yolanda lost her reputation, her boyfriend, the election, and her family's respect all at the same time. How is Yolanda/Wildcat going to feel when she finds out that ISA was responsible for leaking her nude picture, breaking her up with Henry, and being grounded for the rest of her life. Her claws grew 3 sizes that day.

Now all we have to do is find out that the ISA is the reason why Beth's parents don't want to eat tele-lunch with her anymore and it's game on.

[readster]

17 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

There is way more to the story than just that. Since Dragon King was the one that told Cindy to date Henry, but Henry was dating Yolanda, that means that the entire ISA was at Cindy's disposal. Could the ISA have come up with the plan to break up Henry and Yolanda. Could The Gambler spoof a text from Henry to Yolanda for the nude pics. Could The Gambler or Principal Fiddler know the cell phone number of every kid in school and leak said picture. Could Principal Fiddler know the exact time to leak said photograph. Cindy didn't have to lift a finger, all she had to do was watch and laugh as Yolanda lost her reputation, her boyfriend, the election, and her family's respect all at the same time. How is Yolanda/Wildcat going to feel when she finds out that ISA was responsible for leaking her nude picture, breaking her up with Henry, and being grounded for the rest of her life. Her claws grew 3 sizes that day.

 

The biggest glaring hole on the show is how much Court and the rest of the JSA are telling Pat: "We say this and we noticed this." Yet Pat is TOO focused on them not getting themselves killed instead of going: "Yes, why would your principal be doing these things?" Instead he is: "I wasn't there like you and Yolanda and saw her doing these things, and since the original Fiddler was a man, I don't believe you. So let it go." Or going to Beth and saying: "Beth ask Chuck to run a background check on people that might meet similar looks to members of the ISA." He would figure out Gambler in a heart beat and at least narrow down Tigress ID to people who match her description. I  get it's for story plot, but don't have it to where Pat acts like he knows best and then doesn't go: "Wait you have a point." Especially a guy who figure out who the Wizard is or why would Gambler, Sportsmaster and Tigress be so focus on a communication company. He is basically just ignoring it. 

Edited July 2, 2020 by readster
spelling errors.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, AnimeMania said:

Cindy didn't have to lift a finger, all she had to do was watch and laugh as Yolanda lost her reputation, her boyfriend, the election, and her family's respect all at the same time. How is Yolanda/Wildcat going to feel when she finds out that ISA was responsible for leaking her nude picture, breaking her up with Henry, and being grounded for the rest of her life. Her claws grew 3 sizes that day.

I just hope no character has a line that includes the term “cat fight.”

[Diapason Untuned]

11 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

There is way more to the story than just that. Since Dragon King was the one that told Cindy to date Henry, but Henry was dating Yolanda, that means that the entire ISA was at Cindy's disposal. Could the ISA have come up with the plan to break up Henry and Yolanda. Could The Gambler spoof a text from Henry to Yolanda for the nude pics. Could The Gambler or Principal Fiddler know the cell phone number of every kid in school and leak said picture. Could Principal Fiddler know the exact time to leak said photograph. Cindy didn't have to lift a finger, all she had to do was watch and laugh as Yolanda lost her reputation, her boyfriend, the election, and her family's respect all at the same time. How is Yolanda/Wildcat going to feel when she finds out that ISA was responsible for leaking her nude picture, breaking her up with Henry, and being grounded for the rest of her life. Her claws grew 3 sizes that day.

Now all we have to do is find out that the ISA is the reason why Beth's parents don't want to eat tele-lunch with her anymore and it's game on.

Sounds a little farfetched to me that the whole ISA was involved in this. Most likely, Dr. Ito told her to get with Henry to observe him, she saw the pic on his phone, grabbed it, texted it to herself, then mass texted it to everyone, and moved from there.

[readster]

5 hours ago, Diapason Untuned said:

Sounds a little farfetched to me that the whole ISA was involved in this. Most likely, Dr. Ito told her to get with Henry to observe him, she saw the pic on his phone, grabbed it, texted it to herself, then mass texted it to everyone, and moved from there.

I think it was a little of both. Putting Cindy more front and center on Ito's commands to make sure they could track Henry jr and also in case the Principal couldn't keep things in check when it came to the students. I mean she hates Sportsmaster and Tigress for killing her coaches and making sure Artemis is front and center with her team sports. What ever happened just after the original JSA's defeat really divided the ISA. We know the Shade's betrayal lead to that, but seems more was going on with the death of the original Fiddler and bringing the Dragon King more. 

[rmontro]

20 hours ago, readster said:

don't have it to where Pat acts like he knows best and then doesn't go: "Wait you have a point." Especially a guy who figure out who the Wizard is or why would Gambler, Sportsmaster and Tigress be so focus on a communication company. He is basically just ignoring it. 

Well, I guess there's a reason he was just a sidekick.

[Kromm]

Okay, they made it DAMN clear who the Janitor is, but... it's a character people would only know if they read JSA comics.  Ergo probably a restricted spoiler.

The reveal about Evil Cindy was not that surprising.  They did go even more Evil with her than I'd assumed they would, but I think I understand why (more on that later).

For the first time I think they went too over the top with Courtney's impulsive/not-listening/selfish streak.  They've stayed on the right side of the balance before, even if they came close a few times to going over the line, but this time her attitude was just ludicrous, since the ENTIRE last episode was supposedly about teaching her the same lesson as this one.

My long range speculation is that we're actually seeing the game plan for NEXT season laid out here.  This season is ISA.  Next season is ISA Jr. (just like this season is JSA Jr.).  Evil Cindy is clearly the root of that, but we've got Brainwave's kid, who's totally going to lose it when he learns who put his Dad in that coma.  We've got Icicle's kid, who's turn is clearly going to be more subtle/long term.  We've got Sportsmaster and Tigress' kid (although there's some especially potentially spoilery stuff about her more from the Young Justice TV show than comics).  I'm sure we've seen others I'm just forgetting about.

[AnimeMania]

4 hours ago, Kromm said:

My long range speculation is that we're actually seeing the game plan for NEXT season laid out here.  This season is ISA.  Next season is ISA Jr. (just like this season is JSA Jr.).  Evil Cindy is clearly the root of that, but we've got Brainwave's kid, who's totally going to lose it when he learns who put his Dad in that coma.  We've got Icicle's kid, who's turn is clearly going to be more subtle/long term.  We've got Sportsmaster and Tigress' kid (although there's some especially potentially spoilery stuff about her more from the Young Justice TV show than comics).  I'm sure we've seen others I'm just forgetting about.

Little Fiddler.

[DC Fan]

On 6/30/2020 at 8:47 PM, mxc90 said:

I wonder what would happen if Henry ever decided to breakup with Cindy. It's Cindy's job to be with him.

Cindy seems to have everyone's cell number. Must be her other special power.

If Cindy is not allowed down the basement, why was she given the security code to the door?

Cindy believes the kids in the high School will do anything she says? She is delusional.

Courtney little lesson from the end of last week to listen to Pat didn't last long. 

I had to laugh at Beth for being pissed at Courtney for not training that day. If Pat can make a fighter out of her, he is a genius.

Cindy killed her mother?

Icicle said he killed the man pursuing his wife. Pat you better watch out.

It was daytime when Pat, Courtney and Mike were in the stands. Kickoff was at night.

Just last week, Mike didn't want Pat or anyone to come to the exhibit. This week, he is complaining to Courtney for his attention.

Did Artemis' parents scare the opponents to not tackle her.

Cindy just leaves the game to go home because Courtney declined Saturday??? Does she live next door the high school to get back so fast? When was it established Cindy is a cheerleader?

Where did the principal go? How many exits can that secret passage lead to in that town (ISA headquarters and the villain's homes must be real close).

I guess Mike is really going to be pissed at Courtney now that he had to home from the game alone. 

I would love to see a good little friendship between Cindy and Courtney before they fought. This fight came too quick.

So the ISA adults couldn't kick Stargirl's ass, It took Cindy to accomplish this. Give the girl a seat at the table and make sure she has a mask ( Courtney recognized her immediately).

What exactly knocked out Stargirl? At the end, her hands were burnt and she took maybe one serious blow. So did she pass out for being out of shape?

The comic staff couldn't jump in save Stargirl but it had energy to fly away to get Pat. Unreal! That's the second time someone had to jump in and save Stargirl from doom.

The blue filter was way too heavy in auditorium fight.

Pat running in the room yelling "Courtney" 3 times, is Cindy going figure this out?

No one wanted to answer the question of how many seconds in 45 minutes for extra credit. Not even the smartest one in the room? Henry has the greatest power if he wants to cheat on a test!

So the parking lot, cars and school buses were damaged a few episodes ago and now the school auditorium. When is the police going to get involved?  

Pat has a nice clear picture of Tigress. Can Beth's googles see who she is?

Good luck Pat explaining Courtney's bruises to Barbara this time.

Courtney does seem to show symptoms of attention deficit.

Don't think Pat will make a fighter of Beth, but Chuck might.  His patience seems infinite & she listens to him.

Dragon King called Cindy "his greatest experiment."  Is there any real family dynamic there?  How human is she, really?  Without emotional supports, thinking herself superior to everyone else & having no respect for human life, she's a volcano waiting to erupt.

How have the ISA NOT recognized Pat?  He didn't wear a mask, especially when he carried Starman out of the trap that destroyed the JSA.  Gambler doesn't wear one, nor Icicle.  Apparently, recognition only happens when it's in the script!

To be fair, Shiv blindsided Courtney & never let up.  I think Stargirl gave a pretty good account of herself, under the circumstances.  Sir Justin also blindsided Shiv; he might not have fared so well, otherwise.

One good blow, or for that matter, one injury (like a concussion), can bring a sudden end to ANY fight.  Stargirl's reckless cockiness can't help resulting in some hard lessons.  The miracle is that she survives long enough to learn them.  Then factor in the ADD...

The police report on Rick's parents' "accident" was at least tampered with, if not outright falsified.  Local police have apparently been compromised by the ISA for a LONG time.