Athlete A (Netflix)

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

An August 2016 article in the Indianapolis Star about USA Gymnastics protecting coaches accused of abuse leads to the explosive revelation that the USAG women’s team doctor, Larry Nassar, had been abusing athletes for over two decades. This film follows the IndyStar reporters as they reveal the extensive cover-up that allowed abuse to thrive within elite-level gymnastics for more than two decades, the attorney who is fighting the institutions that failed these athletes, and most importantly, the brave whistle-blowers who refuse to be silenced.

Trailer:

 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

First, on a shallow note, this documentary reminded me of the age old debate - who is the all time worst gymnastics commentator: Al Trautwig or John Tesh?

I was surprised to see Geza Pozsar in this documentary.

Maggie Nichols, Rachel Denhollander, Jamie Dantzscher, Andrea Munford, Angela Povilaitis, Rosemarie Aquilina, and the Indy Star reporters deserve all the high fives and hugs in the world.

One of the things I've noticed when former elite gymnasts compete at the college level is that they finally look happy and like they're enjoying what they're doing.

That's why I think it was important that the beginning of this documentary focused on the culture of gymnastics because people who don't know about it may not understand the absolute power that the coaches and other gymnastics authority figures have over these girls who are taught to obey them without question from the time they're as young as 3 or 4 years old.  After the constant abuse and pressure heaped on them by the Karolyis, Nassar knew exactly how to befriend the girls by sneaking them food and, you know, not yelling at them. He took advantage of children and betrayed their trust by abusing them. But he wouldn't have gotten away with it if not for the complicity of MULTIPLE people at MSU and USAG.

Steve Penny is a piece of shit. He knew about this abuse and covered it up to protect the USAG brand. I still remember when the news broke that he had been arrested at his cabin. I was like FINALLY.

The most sickening thing about Larry Nassar sexually abusing these children was that SO MANY people knew and did not report to the police, despite the fact that it's required by law.

Although a lot of people know about the Nassar case because it was so widely publicized, the USAG coverup did not get as much media attention so I'm glad that the film makers drew such an explicit timeline. Steve Penny, the Karolyis, and multiple people in USAG knew exactly what was going on and were more than happy to just sweep it under the rug. They let the abuse continue because they didn't want to tarnish their brand, which is sickening. So many children paid the price because of that selfish decision.

[chitowngirl]

3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

 

First, on a shallow note, this documentary reminded me of the age old debate - who is the all time worst gymnastics commentator: Al Trautwig or John Tesh?

 

I feel a “SHUT UP AL!!” Is needed 😆

[Bastet]

11 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

That's why I think it was important that the beginning of this documentary focused on the culture of gymnastics because people who don't know about it may not understand the absolute power that the coaches and other gymnastics authority figures have over these girls who are taught to obey them without question from the time they're as young as 3 or 4 years old.

I agree.  I watch gymnastics during the Olympics, but that's it.  And I always have a hard time with it, because I admire the skill, but it's disturbing how they all have bodies that look prepubescent and how girlishness is emphasized via their make-up, glittery hair, and leotards.  And that they never had a childhood because all they ever did was train, often away from their families.  From the little I know, it has always seemed like the process is inherently abusive.  (And I felt like I lived in a parallel universe when everyone around me was hailing Kerri Strug's vault as this incredible heroic moment, because I was horrified she was put back out there for that second vault.  We can't let the Russians win gold, so let's send a kid out to run full speed and launch herself off an injured ankle?!)

So I wasn't surprised to hear Jamie Dantzscher talk about never being believed when she said she was injured, having to keep training and competing while injured, being held to a weight standard she couldn't possibly maintain in a healthy way, etc.  I always figured the Karolyis were assholes - when you're hand-picked by Ceaușescu, you're not going to suddenly become nurturing and supportive when you cross borders - but hearing the details of their cruelty and how isolated the girls were was eye-opening.

As you said, it's important to set that stage before getting into what Larry Nassar did - to understand that he positioned himself as the only nice adult these girls dealt with at USAG, the guy who validated their feelings the coaches were monsters and sneaked candy to them, and then abused that trust by sexually assaulting them under the guise of medical examination. 

It was heartbreaking hearing them talk about how beaten down they were; of course they felt powerless.  As Rachael Denhollander said, "I didn't know much at 15, but one of the things I did know was that victims of abuse weren't treated well - they're mocked, questioned, blamed, and shamed."  They didn't see any avenue in which they told someone, were believed, and saw something done to stop it.  And, guess what, they were right.

It also broke my heart to hear Jennifer Sey talk about how they so thoroughly doubted their own perceptions to begin with, because they thought they were working hard and doing well, but were constantly screamed at that they were fat and lazy, that they questioned themselves as to whether they were actually even being sexually abused.

What really got to me was hearing Jamie say getting to the Olympics did not wind up being a dream come true; she felt no pride in being an Olympian.  But when she stood up in that courtroom, that's when she felt proud, and if she can feel proud about something, maybe she's starting to get a little better. 

I cried seeing Maggie Nichols - denied a slot on the Olympic team at least in part in retaliation for reporting Nassar - win back-to-back NCAA titles, and, especially seeing her have so damn much fun.

It is sickening the number of people who knew and did not do a damn thing, and in fact covered it up, because they thought protecting the program - this brand to be marketed - was more important than protecting these girls - who were just product.  I'm glad for this documentary giving further exposure to the Indianapolis reporters' work, saying putting this one man away is just the beginning.   The first victim to report him did so in 1997.  He should never have had the chance to rack up 500 more.

I initially wished they'd shown a little bit of that "tongue-lashing of the century" the judge delivered at sentencing, but then I realized it's so much better that the final shot from the courtroom be of all those survivors standing, cheering, and supporting each other after Rachael delivered the final impact statement and so beautifully advocated for the maximum sentence as the only just result.

Edited June 25, 2020 by Bastet

[peachmangosteen]

I knew about the Nassar thing but I didn't know any of the details. It's mind-boggling how monstrous he was and that so many people just didn't do anything about it for over 20 years. And I mean, I assumed the coaching was heinous but to have it laid out was just wow. 

That Steve Penny guy is a true piece of shit. What was he charged with? Has he been convicted yet?

[hookedontv]

13 hours ago, Bastet said:

And I always have a hard time with it, because I admire the skill, but it's disturbing how they all have bodies that look prepubescent and how girlishness is emphasized via their make-up, glittery hair, and leotards.  And that they never had a childhood because all they ever did was train, often away from their families. 

I totally agree with this. Even as a kid watching the Olympics, I thought it was so strange and "icky" that the girls would run into their coaches arms, that the coaches would help them off the elevated mats, etc. And that the girls looked so young and prepubescent, kind of like someone gave them a pill to stop maturing. When in reality they were fed little and worked to the bone. But as long as medals were being won.....

What a horror show for the abused. 

[ChicksDigScars]

When they talked about Nadia and how Bela and Martha were responsible for the change to little girls with no curves who could more easily do the difficult twists and stunts, my mind flashed to "Ladies" Figure Skating. The trend has moved to quads, done by tiny Russians. And now the U.S. in an effort to compete with Eteri's tiny teen jumping beans, has a two time National Champion that isn't old enough to qualify for international competition. The ISU needs to watch Athlete A and note the patterns repeating.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

That Steve Penny guy is a true piece of shit. What was he charged with? Has he been convicted yet?

He was arrested in October 2018 for tampering with evidence. When he found out that the Karolyi ranch (which was being managed by USAG) was being investigated, he had documents moved from the ranch to the USAG office in Indianapolis.

He was at his family’s cabin in Tennessee when he was arrested. He claimed he was on vacation (totally not hiding from the authorities!). If convicted, he could face 2-10 years in prison.

He posted his $20K bond and pled not guilty. 

Edited June 25, 2020 by ElectricBoogaloo

[dubstepford wife]

28 minutes ago, ChicksDigScars said:

When they talked about Nadia and how Bela and Martha were responsible for the change to little girls with no curves who could more easily do the difficult twists and stunts, my mind flashed to "Ladies" Figure Skating. The trend has moved to quads, done by tiny Russians. And now the U.S. in an effort to compete with Eteri's tiny teen jumping beans, has a two time National Champion that isn't old enough to qualify for international competition. The ISU needs to watch Athlete A and note the patterns repeating.

Oh man this.  There is something inherently scary about a sport where athletes like Evgenia Medvedeva are washed up at 19.  And rhythmic gymnastics is the same way.  The documentary "Winner Takes it All," which was produced by RT and is specifically designed to portray Irina Viner in a positive light, still manages to make her look like a dictatorial and abusive monster.

It does make me wonder about how much abuse happens in countries where there is state-led deference to the coaches and their regimes.  Steve Penny and the Karolyi's were eventually caught.  It took decades, which is shameful, but it sounds like that was mostly due to the authorities not being notified.  Once the FBI was involved they did take this seriously, and things happened quickly.  But if someone were to go to the Russian police saying that someone on Irina's team or Eteri's team sexually abused them, I feel like it would just be buried.

The Olympics are not these pure bastions of sportsmanship and nobility that we like to believe.  There's so much darkness beneath the surface, and it's all at the expense of children. 

[nickp1991]

Steve Penny destroyed Maggie Nichols Olympic dreams

Edited June 26, 2020 by nickp1991

[peachmangosteen]

14 hours ago, nickp1991 said:

Steve Penny destroyed Maggie Nichols Olympic dreams

She seems like she's doing fantastic now so she showed him lol.

[GaT]

Wow, while I was watching this, I realized I haven't heard a damn thing about any of this for a long time & it made me really mad again. What's going on with the other investigations? The one into the USAG? The US Olympic Committee? The way the FBI handled things? Shouldn't something have been done by now?

On 6/25/2020 at 9:08 AM, ChicksDigScars said:

When they talked about Nadia and how Bela and Martha were responsible for the change to little girls with no curves who could more easily do the difficult twists and stunts, my mind flashed to "Ladies" Figure Skating. The trend has moved to quads, done by tiny Russians. And now the U.S. in an effort to compete with Eteri's tiny teen jumping beans, has a two time National Champion that isn't old enough to qualify for international competition. The ISU needs to watch Athlete A and note the patterns repeating.

What happened with the investigation into US Swimming? There was talk, but I haven't heard anything more about that either. 

They showed a couple of quick shots of what gymnasts used to look like before Nadia Comaneci, so I decided to look for more & found this photo of the 1948 US Olympic Team. They all look like they're close to 30. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

3 hours ago, GaT said:

What's going on with the other investigations? The one into the USAG? The US Olympic Committee?

I posted an updated in the thread for At the Heart of Gold documentary thread but here's the latest as of June 15:

140 plaintiffs have filed a civil case against the organizations that helped cover up Larry Nassar's serial sexual abuse

A brief timeline/update:

An investigation commissioned by the USOPC found that that USOPC CEO Scott Blackmun and USOC chief of sport performance Alan Ashley were first notified by USA Gymnastics CEO Steve Penny of allegations against Nassar in July 2015. Yet neither Blackmun or Ashley took action or reported it to USOC board members, the report said.

Several people were subpoenaed during the 2018 investigation. Blackmun, USOPC board chair Susanne Lyons and Adams were not deposed in the California cases. Blackmun was served with a deposition subpoena in 2018 but his attorneys requested a delay citing a “recent medical issue.” Survivors’ attorneys agreed to the delay which was put on further hold by the stay.

During the California depositions, USOPC officials and employees were instructed by their attorneys not to answer questions unrelated to jurisdictional issues. In his September 2018 deposition, USOPC Chief of Sport Performance Rick Adams was instructed more than 60 times by USOPC attorneys not to answer questions. USOPC attorneys told USOPC board chairman Larry Probst not to answer “well-over 100 questions” in his October 26, 2018 deposition. Film producer Frank Marshall’s November 20, 2018 deposition “was littered by instructions from counsel not to answer questions related to liability,” according court documents.

In 2018, Blackmun received a $2.4 million buy-out from the USOPC after he was forced to resign amid allegations he was involved in the cover-up of sexual abuse by Nassar, according to financial documents. Blackmun was referred to the Department of Justice and FBI in December 2018 for criminal investigation by two U.S. Senators who accused him of making false statements and misleading Congress. Ashley was fired in December 2018 after the findings of the USOPC commissioned investigation were released.

USA Gymnastics filed for Chapter 11 protection in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in December 2018, triggering an automatic stay on all legal proceedings and litigation including discovery.

In February 2020, USA Gymnastics outlined a proposed $217 million settlement agreement asking the more than 500 survivors to accept a deal releasing the USOPC, former USA Gymnastics CEO Steve Penny, former U.S. women’s coach Don Peters, former national team directors Bela and Martha Karolyi, 2012 Olympic coach John Geddert and others from “any and all claims arising from or related to Abuse Claims or Future Claims.”

Also in February 2020, USOPC chief medical officer William Moreau filed a whistleblower lawsuit claiming that he was fired after he questioned top executives for how they managed reports of sexual abuse and treated mental health issues. In April 2018, the USOPC received a report that a 15 year old Paralympic track athlete had been sexually assaulted by a 20 year old athlete while they were at the Drake Relays. A track coach employed by the USOPC told them that the victim was having suicidal thoughts. Instead of reporting to police, as both Iowa and federal law required, USOPC vice president of sports medicine Bill Moreau claims that USOPC's chief of sport performance Rick Adams began conducting an internal investigation. The USOPC filed a complaint with the U.S. Center for SafeSport on April 30, but did not classify what had happened as a "reportable offense."

In a hearing June 8 (initiated by USOPC attorneys), Mitchell A. Kamin, an attorney for the USOPC, argued that survivors' attorneys had already conducted depositions of USOPC officials and employees in the California lawsuits prior to the Chapter 11 triggered stay. These are the 2018 depositions described above.

Today's filing asks the U.S. Bankruptcy Court in the Southern District of Indiana to order eight current or former USOPC officials and employees to comply with subpoenas for depositions in Nassar-related civil lawsuits in California and Michigan within 30 days. Attorneys for the women also asked Judge Robyn L. Moberly to require the USOPC to produce documents subpoenaed in those cases within 30 days.

The survivors’ attorneys are seeking to depose former USOPC CEO Scott Blackmun, former USOPC board chairman Larry Probst, current board chair Susanne Lyons, USOPC Chief of Sport Performance Rick Adams, former USOC chief of sport performance Alan Ashley, former USOPC and USA Gymnastics board member Frank Marshall, former USOPC chief medical officer William Moreau, and USOPC chief financial officer Morane Kerek,

Quote

“The USOPC seeks to quietly hide in the periphery of this bankruptcy, while receiving a sweeping release and channeling injunction (if the settlement election is agreed to by half of the claimants), without contributing a cent of its own money to settlement and also without disclosing any facts whatsoever related to its liabilities; all the while, relying upon a one-sided distortion of its exposure, as described in the Disclosure Statement,” survivors attorneys said in Monday’s motion.

“The reason why these cases exist in the first place is because these institutions—including the USOPC — operated under a veil of secrecy and lack transparency that allowed sexual assault to fester. It seems that the USOPC has learned nothing, hopes to change nothing, and seeks a free pass from the Court in return for multiple press releases containing platitudes yet no substantive change. At a minimum, if these Survivors are going to release all rights to recover against the USOPC, they must be given some insight into the USOPC’s institutional knowledge of abuse and exposure, sufficient to inform their decision.”

The depositions are needed, attorneys for the survivors maintain, to provide the women with an accurate account of the USOPC’s finances before signing off an agreement that releases the organization from financial and legal liability.

The depositions would also shine new light on why Michigan State was not contacted USOPC officials, along with USA Gymnastics and FBI officials, after they were presented with allegations of sexual abuse against Nassar by multiple gymnasts in the summer of 2015.

[...]

“The USOC’s (legal) position is directly contrary to their public position,” Manly said. “Let’s be clear what they’re saying is they don’t have any duty to tell the victims if they know someone’s a child molester. That’s what they’re saying — that  even though they knew Larry Nassar was a child molester they didn’t have to tell anybody and they could allow him to serially molest hundreds of little girls after they knew.

“That’s an amazing position for a federally chartered corporation in charge of the Olympics to take. I hope that the public, media and Congress read this and understand the position they’re taking because it’s clear that if they actually believe that the leadership of the USOC is completely morally bankrupt, the whole thing needs to go.”

[...]

Alex Cunny, an attorney for the survivors, served notice on the subpoenas for the USOPC depositions and documents last month. Attorneys for the USOPC then filed a motion for a protective order limiting discovery.

[...]

“Despite an inadequate disclosure of information necessary to evaluate the claims, the USOPC has the audacity to claim that “[a]lthough technically limited to jurisdictional issues, the USOPC witnesses’ prior testimony fully explored all Nassar-related issues, which are the core evidentiary questions relevant to the vast majority of Claimants in this matter…” This claim is a fabrication, misrepresentation, and violation of the USOPC’s duty of candor to this Court. In fact, as counsel for the USOPC fully knows (as it is the very same counsel who litigated those underlying claims in state court), the USOPC did everything in its power, during that abbreviated discovery, to limit discovery in those matters to solely personal jurisdictional issues. During the process, the USOPC stonewalled the Survivors as to any and all liability discovery, which it took steps to prevent  at every turn. This is well documented in a legion of emails and deposition transcripts that were not disclosed to this Court, by the USOPC, in its Protective Order Motion. In order for this Court to have a full picture of this issue, the Survivors have disclosed those emails and transcripts herein for this Court’s edification.”

 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 6/24/2020 at 7:20 PM, Bastet said:

I agree.  I watch gymnastics during the Olympics, but that's it.  And I always have a hard time with it, because I admire the skill, but it's disturbing how they all have bodies that look prepubescent and how girlishness is emphasized via their make-up, glittery hair, and leotards.

Gymnastics in the 70s-90s had increasingly tiny girls who often looked like they were 12 because coaches were going with the Sparky Polastri philosophy of tiny malnourished girls on a neverending diet make better athletes who can go higher. Girls would often peak at 15 and then retire from the competitive world. When they raised the minimum age for the Olympic team to 16, it really changed a lot of things. Gymnasts like Aly Raisman and Simone Biles were rarely if ever seen at the Olympic level because they would have been considered too big. The favored aesthetic was tiny and thin, not muscular and past puberty. It's been great to see the top gymnasts look more mature and to see girls past the age of 16 winning medals.

On 6/25/2020 at 9:45 AM, dubstepford wife said:

It does make me wonder about how much abuse happens in countries where there is state-led deference to the coaches and their regimes.  Steve Penny and the Karolyi's were eventually caught.  It took decades, which is shameful, but it sounds like that was mostly due to the authorities not being notified.  Once the FBI was involved they did take this seriously, and things happened quickly.  But if someone were to go to the Russian police saying that someone on Irina's team or Eteri's team sexually abused them, I feel like it would just be buried.

I still remember stories from the American gymnasts who used to hide food in the bathrooms for the teams from the communist countries (Romania, Russia, China) because in comparison, the Americans were eating a lot more. There was an interview with a gymnast where she said on competition days, they were allowed six almonds and no water. As strict and abusive as the American coaches have been, it was so much worse in the communist countries. And of course, those gymnasts had a lot of motivation to win because becoming an Olympic medalist meant the chance that their families might be moved to a better apartment or be given a better job.

I'm 99% sure that in the other documentary (At the Heart of Gold), someone mentioned that some of the abuse reports got as far as the local FBI but then nothing happened. It wasn't until the FBI got involved on the national level that an investigation actually happened.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 6/25/2020 at 5:18 PM, nickp1991 said:

Steve Penny destroyed Maggie Nichols Olympic dreams

 

On 6/26/2020 at 7:34 AM, peachmangosteen said:

She seems like she's doing fantastic now so she showed him lol.

 

On 6/24/2020 at 7:20 PM, Bastet said:

I cried seeing Maggie Nichols - denied a slot on the Olympic team at least in part in retaliation for reporting Nassar - win back-to-back NCAA titles, and, especially seeing her have so damn much fun.

She wasn't able to defend her titles this year because the season was cancelled midway through due to the coronavirus, but here are some of her routines from this season! Maggie is also only one of 11 gymnasts who have achieved a GymSlam, which is scoring a 10 in each event in one NCAA season (she did it twice!).

FYI - Ragan Smith, who was one of the alternates for the 2016 Olympic team also competes for Oklahoma so you'll hear her name mentioned during Maggie's routines.

Floor:

Beam:

10 on vault:

9.95 on bars:S

 

[kieyra]

Thanks for starting this thread. I had already watched At the Heart of Gold, but I appreciated more info, the insight into the journalism side, and the updated info. 

It's all so incredibly fucked up, and makes me feel so awful knowing how many hours and hours of olympic gymnastics I've sat through in my life, back to Mary Lou Retton at least. 

(If you're still in a one-shot-documentary-Netflix mood, and you want something that's less dark but still raw and moving, I really recommend Disclosure.)

[kieyra]

On 6/24/2020 at 10:20 PM, Bastet said:

I initially wished they'd shown a little bit of that "tongue-lashing of the century" the judge delivered at sentencing, but then I realized it's so much better that the final shot from the courtroom be of all those survivors standing, cheering, and supporting each other after Rachael delivered the final impact statement and so beautifully advocated for the maximum sentence as the only just result.

I believe they show a bit of that, and more impact statements, in the HBO "At the Heart of Gold" documentary. But I also remember watching news video of the judge's speech separately, so I could be confusing the two. It's been a while for both.

(I think both documentaries are well worth watching even if there is some material/footage overlap. The victims should get as much or as little platform as they feel comfortable with, and god knows there's an entire documentary series worth of awfulness here. Twenty. Years.)

[Neurochick]

This documentary was very well done.  I wish though there would be a documentary on what happened to the young women who won gold medals for gymnastics, Olga Korbut, Nadia Comaneci, Kerri Strug, Mary Lou Retton (I recently saw her doing a commercial),  Did these women ever develop drug or alcohol problems?  Eating disorders?  Issues from PTSD?  

I remember when Nadia won in 1976.  Everybody was in love with her, and I think the US was like, "in order for US girls to win gold in gymnastics, we have to do what the Eastern European countries are doing."  

I remember when Mary Lou Retton won in 1984.  It seemed like gymnastics just blew up and it was all about money.  More medals, more sponsors, more money.  I like USAG was focused on that instead of the athletes themselves.

But I can't put all of the blame on them.  When the American win at the Olympics, it becomes this HUGE national pride thing.  I was in college, watching with my then boyfriend  at West Point, when the USA hockey team beat the Russians in 1980.  Those guys went nuts when the USA won.  

I'd like to know about gymnasts like Simone Biles and Gabby Douglas.  

[ElectricBoogaloo]

12 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

This documentary was very well done.  I wish though there would be a documentary on what happened to the young women who won gold medals for gymnastics, Olga Korbut, Nadia Comaneci, Kerri Strug, Mary Lou Retton (I recently saw her doing a commercial),  Did these women ever develop drug or alcohol problems?  Eating disorders?  Issues from PTSD?  

I remember when Nadia won in 1976.  Everybody was in love with her, and I think the US was like, "in order for US girls to win gold in gymnastics, we have to do what the Eastern European countries are doing."  

I remember when Mary Lou Retton won in 1984.  It seemed like gymnastics just blew up and it was all about money.  More medals, more sponsors, more money.  I like USAG was focused on that instead of the athletes themselves.

But I can't put all of the blame on them.  When the American win at the Olympics, it becomes this HUGE national pride thing.  I was in college, watching with my then boyfriend  at West Point, when the USA hockey team beat the Russians in 1980.  Those guys went nuts when the USA won.  

I'd like to know about gymnasts like Simone Biles and Gabby Douglas.  

Nadia famously defected and then had a lot of craziness going on in her life (more here) before she eventually married Bart Conner.

Olga Korbut emigrated to the United States in the 90s and has coached gymnastics at several different gyms. In 1999, she went public about being sexually assaulted and raped by her coach. She made the same allegations again after the Larry Nassar scandal and several other gymnasts came forward saying they had been assaulted by the same coach.

Mary Lou Retton had a hip replacement when she was in her 30s (she was born with hip dysplasia which was made worse by gymnastics). In 2017, she and other USAG members met with Senator Dianne Feinstein to try to convince her to drop the Protecting Young Victims from Sexual Abuse and Safe Sport Authorization of 2017 bill (which was created as a direct result of the Larry Nassar scandal). The bill requires Olympic governing bodies and amateur sports organizations to report sex-abuse allegations immediately to local or federal law enforcement, or a child-welfare agency designated by the Justice Department.

According to wikipedia, Kerry Strug worked as a staff assistant with the White House Office of Presidential Student Correspondence, moved to a job at the General Counsel in the Treasury Department, and in March 2005, joined the Justice Department's Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention staff as a presidential appointee.

I love that after Phoebe Mills retired, she became a competitive diver (she competed at the University of Miami in Florida) and then got into snowboarding. She was also an environmental lawyer, but it looks like she's not practicing anymore.

[kieyra]

3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

In 2017, she and other USAG members met with Senator Dianne Feinstein to try to convince her to drop the Protecting Young Victims from Sexual Abuse and Safe Sport Authorization of 2017 bill (which was created as a direct result of the Larry Nassar scandal). The bill requires Olympic governing bodies and amateur sports organizations to report sex-abuse allegations immediately to local or federal law enforcement, or a child-welfare agency designated by the Justice Department.

Am I reading this correctly? Mary Lou Retton fought against a bill to protect young gymnasts from future Nassars?

[Sew Sumi]

11 minutes ago, kieyra said:

Am I reading this correctly? Mary Lou Retton fought against a bill to protect young gymnasts from future Nassars?

That's how I read it. Can't be right.

[Bastet]

25 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

That's how I read it. Can't be right.

Sadly, it is correct.  She joined Penny and others in USAG in lobbying against it, their claim being USAG's policies were solid, and gymnastics was a safe, happy place for the athletes, so no need for the bill.  (The NYTimes reported it.)

 

 

[Growsonwalls]

I just watched this tonight. To answer @Neurochick's question: almost the entire Fierce 5 and Final 5 have come forward about being abused by Nassar.

Fierce 5 - Mckayla Maroney (yes), Kyla Ross (yes), Jordyn Wieber (yes), Gabby Douglas (yes), Aly Raisman (yes)

Final 5 - Simone Biles (yes), Laurie Hernandez (no, but she was abused by her coach Maggie Haney who is now suspended), Madison Kocian (yes), Aly Raisman, Gabby Douglas.

It's really awful but Nassar spared no one.

[Bastet]

On 6/28/2020 at 4:49 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

She wasn't able to defend her titles this year because the season was cancelled midway through due to the coronavirus, but here are some of her routines from this season! Maggie is also only one of 11 gymnasts who have achieved a GymSlam, which is scoring a 10 in each event in one NCAA season (she did it twice!).

Thanks for those.  Now having seen a glimpse of NCAA competition alongside my Olympic viewing, it's really driven home why I prefer the vault and bars to the balance beam and floor -- with the first two, it's just about the athletics (like, ya know, with male gymnasts in all their exercises), while with the latter two, at apparently any level, there's also the stupid flouncy let me entertain you gestures thrown in when it's women's turn to compete.

Also, I didn't realize until talking about this documentary with a friend tonight that Jennifer Sey is one of its producers.  I commented earlier on how affected I was by her thoughts, and I found this Op-Ed she wrote for the NYT in March 2017 when the Senate Judiciary Committee held hearings on the bill discussed above; in advocating for its passage, she wrote:
 

Quote

 

[Testimony of Nassar's victims] left me feeling a familiar sense of dread. As a former elite gymnast and the 1986 national champion, I understand all too well the dynamics that have been brought to light by the recent onslaught of public allegations of sexual misconduct committed against young athletes.

Women’s gymnastics is a sport in which the athletes are very young and barely clothed, and many of the coaches are male. It is a sport in which screaming insults at children is considered an accepted motivational technique, in which competing with severe injuries is the norm, in which discouraging athletes from eating is common practice and in which abuse, broadly defined, is standard.

This is well known within the sport, and now the even more sinister side of the world of gymnastics is getting attention.

[summary of accusations against Larry Nassar]

The problems within gymnastics culture are much bigger than the allegations against this doctor. An investigative report by IndyStar has revealed that between 1996 and 2006, USA Gymnastics failed to immediately ban some of the 54 coaches who had sexual abuse convictions.

[Recap of the chief of paralympic sports for the USOC's testimony, acknowledging the athletes' clear illumination of "a flawed culture where the brand and the sport and the results are given a higher priority than the health and well-being of the athletes".]

He’s right. And I know this environment well. When I was training, I blackened my eyes when I fell on my head on the beam after fasting for three days before a competition. “I don’t coach fat gymnasts” was a common refrain from coaches antagonizing me about my weight. I competed on an injured ankle swollen to the size of a baseball. At one point, I required monthly cortisone injections to limp through my floor routine.

After I broke my femur at the 1985 world championships, I had the cast removed early under pressure from my coaches so that I could train for the next national championships. I competed and won, but not without breaking the opposite ankle in the process.

The message I got was that if you couldn’t take it, you were weak. If you complained, you didn’t deserve to be on the team. In fact, if you perceived it as abuse, rather than just plain old tough coaching, you were delusional.

I wasn’t the victim of sexual misconduct. But the consequences of the culture that allowed the kind of treatment I endured can’t be overstated. In such an environment, you learn to focus only on achievement and to disregard your own sense of right and wrong, along with your own well-being. Because of this, I can understand how young gymnasts might be confused about whether and how to speak up for themselves when they’ve been mistreated.

But there’s no excuse for adults to turn a blind eye to sexual misconduct.

 

 

[Neurochick]

21 hours ago, Bastet said:

Sadly, it is correct.  She joined Penny and others in USAG in lobbying against it, their claim being USAG's policies were solid, and gymnastics was a safe, happy place for the athletes, so no need for the bill.  (The NYTimes reported it.)

 

 

I'm not surprised.  Mary Lou Retton was really the first mega huge gymnastics superstar in the US.  Cathy Rigby was popular, but not as popular as Retton.  I don't even remember the other girls in 1984, but I remember Mary Lou Retton.  I think USAG was very, very good to her, for all we know, they may be paying her a salary.  

Like I said, it's always about the money, sad but true.  

ETA:  That was a very good piece from Jennifer Sey, thanks for sharing that.  The thing is, no matter the sport, all athletes compete hurt.  The issue with gymnastics is they're children who really don't know what's going on enough to say this isn't right.

I have a question.  I know that pro football players suffer many terrible injuries, including CTE.  I wonder what type of long term effects physical effects gymnasts suffer from.

Edited June 30, 2020 by Neurochick

[blueray]

I was glad at the end that Maggie  is happy competing at the college level and is succeeding :).  I vaguely remember watching the 2015 trials and being confused on why she wasn't an alternate as she came in 6th. Now I know :(.

Anyhow, this was a good documentary and it is really sad that it took so long for them to get that creep. It shows how messed up the whole organization really is (or was). I hope they are making improvements and that the incoming 2021 team is safe and treated appropriately. 

[Quilt Fairy]

I'm glad they finally focused (if just a little) on the Karolyi's.  I have never liked them or how much say they have over the selection of the team.  Watching the NCAA clips reminds me of why I used to like women's gymnastics.  Those girls look happy.   

[wallflower75]

Quote

In 2017, she and other USAG members met with Senator Dianne Feinstein to try to convince her to drop the Protecting Young Victims from Sexual Abuse and Safe Sport Authorization of 2017 bill (which was created as a direct result of the Larry Nassar scandal). The bill requires Olympic governing bodies and amateur sports organizations to report sex-abuse allegations immediately to local or federal law enforcement, or a child-welfare agency designated by the Justice Department.

WTF??  My God, even if it didn't happen to you, the sheer NUMBER of women who came forward about what happened to them should convince you that something was wrong and needed to be changed!!  Jesus.  I was never super crazy about Mary Lou Retton, and this just sunk what little good opinion I had of her.

[CrazyInAlabama]

In equestrian sports, there have been three big name trainers banned for sexual abuse of minors.     One committed suicide, one was already dead, and the third keeps showing up and getting told to leave the premises (banned people can't coach, train, or spectate at events), and the entire spin was that whatever happened, it was only one, many years ago, and the victim was actually asking for it.     That entire story is a total lie, and there have been many victims coming forward.     There are a lot of people claiming Safe Sport is a witch hunt, and illegal.    The defenders of the banned trainers are smearing victims, trying to get Safe Sport abolished, etc.     However, it's a requirement to have Safe Sport in place to compete outside the U.S., so I guess they want the national teams to go away too.     It appalls me that people like Mary Lou Retton are lobbying to stop Safe Sport.     There are a lot of others that want no protections for the predators.       Anything to win is the motto of too many coaches and parents.    

Little Girls in Pretty Boxes by Joan Ryan is from 1995, but told about the abuses by coaches, and parents in figure skating, and gymnastics.     The parents aren't blameless either.    In one true story a girl is told she's not good enough to do the elite levels, and it's dangerous for her to continue (the Karolyis told the mother the girl would get horribly hurt by continuing).  So the mother found another coach, and the ending was tragic and predictable.     

Edited July 6, 2020 by CrazyInAlabama

[doodlebug]

On 6/30/2020 at 2:14 PM, Neurochick said:

 

I have a question.  I know that pro football players suffer many terrible injuries, including CTE.  I wonder what type of long term effects physical effects gymnasts suffer from.

Well, Mary Lou Retton underwent a hip replacement while still in her 30's.  She was said to have had a congenital hip problem, but there is no doubt that years of pounding from gymnastics contributed to the need for a new joint at such a young age.

[Wiendish Fitch]

On 6/29/2020 at 12:25 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Mary Lou Retton had a hip replacement when she was in her 30s (she was born with hip dysplasia which was made worse by gymnastics). In 2017, she and other USAG members met with Senator Dianne Feinstein to try to convince her to drop the Protecting Young Victims from Sexual Abuse and Safe Sport Authorization of 2017 bill (which was created as a direct result of the Larry Nassar scandal). The bill requires Olympic governing bodies and amateur sports organizations to report sex-abuse allegations immediately to local or federal law enforcement, or a child-welfare agency designated by the Justice Department.

Fuck you, Mary Lou Retton, and all your loathsome, enabling cohorts. 

 

On 6/24/2020 at 10:20 PM, Bastet said:

 (And I felt like I lived in a parallel universe when everyone around me was hailing Kerri Strug's vault as this incredible heroic moment, because I was horrified she was put back out there for that second vault.  We can't let the Russians win gold, so let's send a kid out to run full speed and launch herself off an injured ankle?!)

I'm definitely old enough to remember the 1996 Olympics, and it took me way too long to appreciate the horrific, needless agony poor Kerri Strug was put through. Maybe I'm just a soft, cowardly, mediocre lump, but I will take having the ability to walk comfortably and normally over a gold medal any day of the week. Seriously, what if Strug had instead fallen or landed improperly and shattered her ankle beyond repair? Not winning the gold would have been the least of her problems!

This was a great documentary, almost as good as At the Heart of Gold. I liked that they interviewed Rachael Denhollander, but I was sadly unsurprised at the harassment she suffered online when the story broke. Those assholes accused her of being just a "washed up gymnast who couldn't hack it". Um, dickheads? One could meanly argue that any former gymnast, successful or otherwise, is technically washed up (hi, Mary Lou Retton!), and anyway, Rachael Denhollander is a fucking lawyer. Sounds like she's doing just fine to me.

Edited July 7, 2020 by Wiendish Fitch

[SunnyBeBe]

I thought this film was really impressive.  It offered more background information and was presented a little differently from A Heart Of Gold. imo.  One stand out for me in both films was Rachel Denhollander.  Something about that woman speaks to me.  I find her to be one of the most eloquently gifted people I've ever seen.  She truly has talent that could be utilized in so many ways, not just being an attorney, which, I've read she has become.   She's worked so hard and endured so much.  I've read she's a mother of four, so, no doubt she's super busy with that and being an author and attorney.  I wish more people had the chance to see her.  I'm an attorney as well, so, it's very inspiring to see a person with that aptitude.

When she was interviewed for this film she was in a very small house.  Just wondering if that was her childhood home or where she lives now.  Trying to envision that with a family of 6.  lol   

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachael_Denhollander

About her book:

https://www.pbs.org/video/rachael-denhollander-dfhd7s/

[VartanFan]

Damn - watched this last night.  My husband is not into gymnastics or documentaries but he watched this one.  He just kept saying -- I would kill the guy.  

I remember watching the selection live for the 16 games and I couldn't understand why they had skipped over Nichols.  It would be interesting to listen to the talking heads (now) from when she didn't come out as a team member.  Given particularly what her parents said about suddenly not having seats saved or any perks, I am completely certain that she was punished for daring to question USAG's "methods".  

I'm so very happy for her that she's at least gotten a free education from gymnastics, though sad for her that she wasn't able to redefend her title.  

So infuriating that nobody stood up for these children.  Everyone seemed to be protecting their own ass and own bank accounts.  So shameful.  

[ElectricBoogaloo]

a great Vogue interview with Simone Biles - she discusses her bratty phase, her depression, the Olympics being postponed until 2021 (not only the challenge of training for another year but of being forced to deal with USAG for another year while doing so), BLM, and lots of other stuff.

ETA: the writer also reminded us that in 2013, Carlotta Ferlito told reporters, “Next time we should paint our skin black, so we could win, too," after the Italian team managed to win only one medal at the World Championships (Simone won four medals at that meet). Those were some sour (and racist) grapes. This is the same classy girl who posted on Twitter, "I am used to being a few tenths out and taking it in the ass. I will overcome these assholes," when she failed to qualify for AA or beam finals at the 2015 European Championships. Good times.

Edited July 10, 2020 by ElectricBoogaloo

[kieyra]

Ex-USA Gymnastics national team coach Terry Gray arrested on lewdness charges 

[Scarlett45]

An excellent documentary. There was vile Larry Nassar, the people who actively protected/enabled him, the parents so obsessed with glory/money/prestige they didn’t see the 500 red flags (as in parents weren’t allowed to come to camp).....makes my blood boil. 
 

I am so glad Maggie (Who actually had parents who were PARENTING) is still a gymnast in the NCAA and that asshole didn’t ruin the sport for her. 
 

These girls were so talented and worked so hard since they were BABIES, and these adults were allowed to exploit and abuse them for years. 
 

Awful. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

15 hours ago, kieyra said:

Ex-USA Gymnastics national team coach Terry Gray arrested on lewdness charges 

It is infuriating that so many coaches were allowed to keep working with kids while they were being investigated. I was willing to overlook SCEGA hiring him when they didn't know that there was an active investigation, but once they knew and they let him work there anyway? UGH. Then again, I remember that one of the male SCEGA coaches started dating the sister of one of the gymnasts (the sister worked in the office). I'm pretty sure she was a teenager because I remember when I found out, 15 year old me was like whoa, that does not seem like something he should be doing.

[Guest]

On 6/24/2020 at 7:20 PM, Bastet said:

And I felt like I lived in a parallel universe when everyone around me was hailing Kerri Strug's vault as this incredible heroic moment, because I was horrified she was put back out there for that second vault.  We can't let the Russians win gold, so let's send a kid out to run full speed and launch herself off an injured ankle?!)

Me too. That olympics was what really soured me on gymnastics. I remember being deeply uncomfortable from the time Dominque Moceanu fell. The way the Karolyi’s interacting with both Dominque and Kerri was so off. You could see something deeper going on in both their eyes. 

[Guest]

One detail that really stood out to me in the documentary was that Nassar was a volunteer.  In addition to the horrific sexual abuse I wonder how many girls suffered physical injuries because their doctor wanted to maintain easy access to victims. He was named the team doctor in 1996 which puts a new light on the 1996 games and the chain of event that led to Kerri’s vault. With a better doctor maybe Dominique doesn’t compete a stress fracture and Kerri would have never been forced to vault injured. 

[PJ123]

On 7/2/2020 at 4:40 PM, Quilt Fairy said:

I'm glad they finally focused (if just a little) on the Karolyi's.  I have never liked them or how much say they have over the selection of the team.  Watching the NCAA clips reminds me of why I used to like women's gymnastics.  Those girls look happy.   

There is a 7 part ESPN 30 for 30 podcast about them just released called Heavy Metals.  Highly recommend. 

[ItsHelloPattiagain]

On 7/12/2020 at 1:25 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

It is infuriating that so many coaches were allowed to keep working with kids while they were being investigated. I was willing to overlook SCEGA hiring him when they didn't know that there was an active investigation, but once they knew and they let him work there anyway?

My kids were competitive gymnasts years ago at a very high level gymnastic school (they weren't high level but they trained with some kids that were on National Team). I went down a rabbit hole one day wondering what happened to one of their male coaches.  I found him on a sex offender website where he had just been released from ten years in prison for possession of child porn. When he was arrested, thankfully he wasn't coaching anymore, but he did coach my kids fairly regularly. Of course I had to have a chat with them and apparently nothing untoward happened with them, but ewww, ewww, ewww having to talk to my kids years afterwards about whether they were abused or saw anything else strange. And one of their old teammates that did go to National Training Camp for years WAS abused by Nassar. It just breaks my heart. 

[Quilt Fairy]

22 hours ago, PJ123 said:

There is a 7 part ESPN 30 for 30 podcast about them just released called Heavy Metals.  Highly recommend. 

Thanks for the info.  I downloaded the episodes.  I am very interested in a critical look at the Karoli's. 

[kieyra]

World champion gymnast Terin Humphrey alleges Larry Nassar sexually abused her
 

Quote

Former Olympic medalist files to join Nassar survivors suit against USA Gymnastics

 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

4 hours ago, PoshSprinkles said:

This subject has been debated to death on other gymnastics boards that I frequent, but the general consensus is that Maggie was not robbed of a spot on the 2016 team. Even in 2016 almost no one had her as a serious contender for the team. She was seriously injured for most of the lead-up to Olympic Trials (meniscus tear in April 2016, had to have surgery) and then at trials still wasn't showing her full skill set. Also, if you followed gymnastics during that time, it was pretty much a foregone conclusion before the Olympic trials even occurred that the team was going to be Simone, Aly, Gabby, Laurie, and Madison. The only other names in the mix were Ashton, Mykayla, and Ragan, all of which were selected as alternates. 

It can be difficult if you don't watch gymnastics all the time, but the overall standings at the Olympic trials don't mean much. Really, the Olympic Trials are meaningless. The only guaranteed spot is whoever comes in first. Everyone else selected has to fit the "puzzle" of the team. Maggie is an absolutely fabulous gymnast, but just didn't fit the "puzzle" of the 2016 team.

The Olympic trials and training camp were just a way for Bela and Marta to justify whatever they had already decided that they were going to do with regards to team selection. It would have been surprising for the Karolyis not to choose Simone, Gabby, Aly, Laurie, and Madison for the Olympic team. Simone, Aly, and Laurie were strong enough to compete in multiple events. They needed Madison on bars. Gabby was a returning Olympian with strong bar scores.

Although Maggie was in the pack in terms of scores, none of her events were strong enough that they needed her more than a bars specialist. If the team event were still done the old fashioned way (all six gymnasts on a team compete in all four events) which valued all around consistency, then there would have been a stronger argument for having her on the team. But the way the team event is done now with only the three strongest gymnasts per team on each event, she didn't have high enough scores on any of her events that Marta was going to select her.

ITA that this doesn't mean she was a bad gymnast by any means. It's really just playing the game because USAG wants that team gold, and that means being strategic. They have to choose gymnasts who have high start values and can execute cleanly, especially on bars.

[kieyra]

Former Michigan State gymnastics coach Kathie Klages to serve 89 days in jail for lying to police

Quote

... Draganchuk said while lying to police rarely results in a sentence with confinement, Klages' actions not only derailed an investigation, but also retraumatized two victims of sexual assault.

I can't remember if Klages is mentioned in Athlete A, but I just rewatched At the Heart of Gold and they spend some time on her in that one. 

[GaT]

1 hour ago, kieyra said:

Former Michigan State gymnastics coach Kathie Klages to serve 89 days in jail for lying to police

I can't remember if Klages is mentioned in Athlete A, but I just rewatched At the Heart of Gold and they spend some time on her in that one. 

Not enough time.

[Sew Sumi]

3 hours ago, GaT said:

Not enough time.

The statutes had run on most charges. 

[pigs-in-space]

I watched this tonight and I'm feeling so angry. I had already watched At the Heart of Gold so the story wasn't new to me, but knowing how Nassar was enabled by the people around him is sickening.  Too many people placed money and medals (but really, mostly money IMO) over the well-being of hundreds of girls. I don't doubt that Nassar probably abused almost every single girl he "treated."

Obviously any abuse at any time is wrong, but there's also something incredibly sinister about him abusing these girls at the Olympics. Those should have been memories that made them proud, and instead they are tinged with the memories of his abuse. 

[HartofDixie]

I’m glad the release of Athlete A has let to the gymnast alliance around the world.

[ombelico]

The "True Crime Obsessed" podcast discussed Athlete A in a new episode this week: https://www.truecrimeobsessed.com/post/152-athlete-a