At The Heart Of Gold: Inside the USA Gymnastics Scandal

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

In 2016 USA Gymnastics was rocked by the revelation that national team doctor Larry Nassar had been abusing young athletes for decades.

Featuring exclusive interviews with survivors of the 2017 sexual abuse scandal, the documentary looks at the shocking stories of the gymnasts who made courageous efforts to reveal a dangerous system that prioritized winning over everything. At the Heart of Gold: Inside the USA Gymnastics Scandal premieres May 3, 2019 at 8pm ET.

 

[Quilt Fairy]

This was just heart-breaking.  I thought Leaving Neverland was bad, but this was much, much worse. 

[walnutqueen]

9 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

This was just heart-breaking.  I thought Leaving Neverland was bad, but this was much, much worse. 

Yes, it was horrific.  There are just no words ... except for those of so many victims.

[ombelico]

This film certainly does the most comprehensive job I've seen yet in linking Nassar's abuse to the overall culture in USA Gymnastics. Somehow I didn't find it as shocking or moving as "Leaving Neverland," but I think that's primarily because as an ardent fan of gymnastics, I've been following this story closely from the very beginning. I don't think there was really any new "news" in here about the Nassar matter that I wasn't already aware of. But I'm glad it's all in one place for those viewers who were not paying as close attention before.

The part I found most shocking was the x-ray of Isabell Hutchins' fibula. How was she even standing on that leg? John Geddert needs to be thrown in jail for the rest of his life on child abuse charges, no question.

Edited May 5, 2019 by ombelico

[GaT]

I just finished watching this. They should fire everyone who works at MSU and start from scratch because I wouldn't trust anybody who worked there in any capacity.

Listening to Kyle Stephens' statement just made me sick. Her father was a real ass, first he doesn't believe her, then when he finally realizes the truth, he kills himself & leaves her to deal with that. I hope he's burning someplace.

[biakbiak]

53 minutes ago, GaT said:

Listening to Kyle Stephens' statement just made me sick. Her father was a real ass, first he doesn't believe her

I was super curious for the reasons they had decided not to believe her because the statement about not wanting to get into seemed to make it seem that she understood why they didn’t believe her which is ridiculous because she was a child so whatever it was it wasn’t worth not believing her and throwing it back into her face when he was mad at her.

Edited May 5, 2019 by biakbiak

[Porkchop]

Is there any way to watch this if I don't have HBO? Go visit a friend, I guess.

[ombelico]

12 hours ago, biakbiak said:

I was super curious for the reasons they had decided not to believe her because the statement about not wanting to get into seemed to make it seem that she understood why they didn’t believe her which is ridiculous because she was a child so whatever it was it wasn’t worth not believing her and throwing it back into her face when he was mad at her.

Yes, she didn't go into it but the mention that to her father, someone who makes false accusations was "the worst kind of person" leads me to speculate that there was something along those lines in the family history, that either he or a relative had been wrongfully accused of something (or at least that was his perception of the issue). It doesn't excuse his not believing his own daughter, though.

[Growsonwalls]

Because it cannot be said too often: abusers groom adults as well as they groom kids. Larry Nassar was an expert at adult grooming. For instance he went to the Karolyi ranch and saw that Marta was wonderful at drilling the girls on their beam sets but horrible at dealing with the emotions and hormones of a bunch of teen girls who are constantly being made to compete with each other in those camps. So he quickly made himself the guy who'd sneak girls snacks, dry off their tears, and get them ready for Round 2 of Marta. 

I saw an interview with Marta where she seemed genuinely shocked and tearful that so many girls were abused at the ranch. "I couldn't suspect anything," she said. She was groomed as well. 

[Quilt Fairy]

On 5/5/2019 at 1:05 AM, biakbiak said:

I was super curious for the reasons they had decided not to believe her because the statement about not wanting to get into seemed to make it seem that she understood why they didn’t believe her which is ridiculous because she was a child so whatever it was it wasn’t worth not believing her and throwing it back into her face when he was mad at her.

At the time this was in the newspapers I remember this coming up and there was a reason why the parents didn't believe her.  I don't think it was a great reason, but they stuck with it.  (Something to do with her behavior which was probably caused by the abuse in the first place, so it's a vicious circle.)  I'm sorry I just don't remember the details but if you do some digging you should find it. 

Edited May 7, 2019 by Quilt Fairy

[ChicksDigScars]

23 hours ago, Porkchop said:

Is there any way to watch this if I don't have HBO? Go visit a friend, I guess.

Do you have a good friend or relative that would let you log into their HBO.GO account to stream it? 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 5/4/2019 at 12:47 PM, ombelico said:

Somehow I didn't find it as shocking or moving as "Leaving Neverland," but I think that's primarily because as an ardent fan of gymnastics, I've been following this story closely from the very beginning. I don't think there was really any new "news" in here about the Nassar matter that I wasn't already aware of. But I'm glad it's all in one place for those viewers who were not paying as close attention before.

I'm in a similar boat. I followed the Nassar story from the beginning so I am familiar with how much abuse occurred and was reported and was ignored by just about every authority possible. I haven't watched this HBO special yet because I wasn't sure how much new information there would be for someone who already knows about stuff like Don Peters and Larry Nassar. And as someone who followed both stories very closely, I don't know if I need to put myself through the ringer again (I live streamed all of the victim impact statements and just sat there crying as I listened to all of those girls whose abuse could have been prevented if MSU or USAG had actually done their jobs instead of gaslighting the victims).

[Quilt Fairy]

10 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I haven't watched this HBO special yet because I wasn't sure how much new information there would be for someone who already knows about stuff like Don Peters and Larry Nassar. And as someone who followed both stories very closely, I don't know if I need to put myself through the ringer again (I live streamed all of the victim impact statements and just sat there crying as I listened to all of those girls whose abuse could have been prevented if MSU or USAG had actually done their jobs instead of gaslighting the victims).

I was familiar with the story from the newspapers and I still found the documentary worthwhile.  It's well put together and follows a straight chronological path.  After watching Leaving Neverland I feel I was more educated about what was going on.  The 30 years of grooming parents and people who were told but never did their fucking job hit me much harder by watching it than reading about it ever did.  And while Michael Jackson abused a few dozen boys, Larry Nassar abused hundreds of girls. 

It does cover the trial and the victim impact statements and yes, I was crying through them as well. 

HBO did not promote this documentary at all and aired it on a Friday night.  The small size of this thread indicates to me that not many people watched it, and I'm upset about that.  It's an important story and it needs to be heard. 

[pigs-in-space]

I watched tonight and it was very well done. I appreciated that it wasn't as long as Leaving Neverland, just because it meant I could watch it in one sitting. 

While the whole story is heartbreaking, I think it's particularly cruel that he so often abused the girls while their parents were in the room with them. I can't imagine the guilt and anger that must cause for both the parents and children.

I loved the judge in the case and how she was not having any of Nassar's self-pitying bullshit. The gall of him to protest about how awful it was for him to have to sit through the victim impact statements, as if that was even a portion of the pain those women and their families are feeling.

His lawyer also didn't do herself any favors on this. She'd have been much better off just declining to be part of the production. 

[Robert Lynch]

42 minutes ago, pigs-in-space said:

I watched tonight and it was very well done. I appreciated that it wasn't as long as Leaving Neverland, just because it meant I could watch it in one sitting. 

While the whole story is heartbreaking, I think it's particularly cruel that he so often abused the girls while their parents were in the room with them. I can't imagine the guilt and anger that must cause for both the parents and children.

I loved the judge in the case and how she was not having any of Nassar's self-pitying bullshit. The gall of him to protest about how awful it was for him to have to sit through the victim impact statements, as if that was even a portion of the pain those women and their families are feeling.

His lawyer also didn't do herself any favors on this. She'd have been much better off just declining to be part of the production. 

HBO documentaries are always good, but this one was well done. I appreciate the time and effort it made to speak out the truth about the abuse in general. 

[pigs-in-space]

I just found out there's a podcast series on this called Believed, by NPR/Michigan Public Radio. The episodes vary in length, but I just started today and I'm already on episode 7 out of 9. It's really good and goes into some more detail about the investigation(s). Well worth a listen as a companion to this documentary, and it features some of the same women who spoke in the doc (although it also has some others that weren't featured).

At the time this was in the newspapers I remember this coming up and there was a reason why the parents didn't believe her.  I don't think it was a great reason, but they stuck with it.  (Something to do with her behavior which was probably caused by the abuse in the first place, so it's a vicious circle.)  I'm sorry I just don't remember the details but if you do some digging you should find it.

The podcast I mentioned goes into this and gets the story from Kyle Stephens herself. Her father had chronic pain and was on a lot of medications, and it sounded like there was a lot of family stress because her mother was basically trying to keep everything together. She only told her parents a small part of the abuse (that Larry rubbed her feet with his penis), and just kept repeating that part. They took her to a child psychologist who she didn't like and wasn't comfortable around, and she didn't tell him anything further either. After a year of her father asking if she was lying, he even said he would make her life a living hell if she didn't tell the truth. So she lied and said she made it up because she was so miserable. It was a heartbreaking story.

Edited May 9, 2019 by pigs-in-space
Added part about Kyle Stephens.

[Scarlett45]

I will watch the documentary this evening and report back. 

[Scarlett45]

These poor girls, facing all this pressure to be an elite athlete and then being abused by this sick man. My heart hurts for them. 

Edited to add: now that it’s the next day and I have time to think, I am enraged. This man, abused his position as a DOCTOR and the trust given by his community to look after the health of these young girls, he ABUSES THEM over and over again- -after he is finally caught, in his letter he says “hell hath no fury like a woman scored”. The ENTITLEMENT and the ARROGANCE of this man. These were not WOMEN but girls, this not the situation of a jilted lover but girls ABUSED by a GROWN MAN they were told to trust. Somewhere in Larry Nassar’s mind he thinks the girls speaking the truth about his abuse is “pay back”.....no, he brought this all on himself. 

May he burn in Hell. 

[Duke2801]

Wow I was really blown away by this documentary. It affected me on a level I wasn’t expecting. 

I “knew” of Larry Nassar and his crimes, but I’d never delved into the details of the story. But seeing and hearing the victims’ statements—and oh god, seeing how young many of them were—really shook me. I am not a big “crier” when it comes to tv and movies, but I had tears in my eyes from the first impact statement to the end. I’m tearing up now just thinking about it. And of course I’m enraged by the people who were told about the abuse and did NOTHING but defend Nassar and act on his behalf. 

I’ve fortunately never been a victim of sexual or physical abuse, but the girls’ descriptions of Geddert took me back to my time as a competitive majorette from ages 10-15. Our (female) coach produced  a team that often took #1 in competitions, but was also horribly cruel and verbally abusive to us when we made mistakes.  And she did it all while many of our parents (including my mom who was super overprotective) were just in the next room. NOT that this compared in ANY way to what Nassar’s victims endured—but it just gave me even more empathy for these girls who had to suffer Geddert’s wrath ON TOP OF being sexually abused, day in and day out. It hurts my soul to think of what they’ve gone though. 

Edited May 13, 2019 by Duke2801

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I was home sick when Judge Aquilina allowed the victim impact statements to be read, so I was lying in bed watching the livestream, listening to girl after girl address the court and Larry Nassar, and just crying seeing how much pain, abuse, and anger was in one room.

[Growsonwalls]

I too was sickened by the fact that he abused these girls in front of their parents. That's just another level of sick, to be doing what he did to the girls while the parents were undoubtedly thinking that their children were getting the best medical care.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

15 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

I too was sickened by the fact that he abused these girls in front of their parents. That's just another level of sick, to be doing what he did to the girls while the parents were undoubtedly thinking that their children were getting the best medical care.

I wouldn't be surprised if that just added another layer of his pleasure/power, knowing that he was abusing these girls while their parents were a few feet away.

[Blakeston]

The judge came across very well here, but I (and many other people) had some major issues with how she handled the case.

For one thing, she as much as told Nassar that if she had the power, she'd sentence him to be raped in prison. I understand the sentiment, but there's no universe in which it's acceptable for a judge to say that to a defendant at a criminal trial. It was completely inappropriate.

She also made it clear that she saw herself as an advocate for the victims, which again is an understandable sentiment, but that's simply not an acceptable stance for a judge in a criminal case to be taking. This article is a good description of the ways in which she overstepped her bounds. 

[Neurochick]

On 5/8/2019 at 10:35 PM, pigs-in-space said:

While the whole story is heartbreaking, I think it's particularly cruel that he so often abused the girls while their parents were in the room with them. I can't imagine the guilt and anger that must cause for both the parents and children.

I thought that was the worse thing about it.  I knew a woman whose son was kicked out of medical school because he did something like that to a grown woman during a GYN exam, this was in the 1980's and he wasn't charged with a crime.

On 5/15/2019 at 2:25 PM, Blakeston said:

She also made it clear that she saw herself as an advocate for the victims, which again is an understandable sentiment, but that's simply not an acceptable stance for a judge in a criminal case to be taking. This article is a good description of the ways in which she overstepped her bounds. 

I agree with this, but I think the judge was just so fucking shocked by it all, she's looking at these grown women and realized that they were children when this happened.  

It's complicated.  Children DO lie about shit, but if a six year old girl said a man put his penis on her leg I'd be concerned because a six year old shouldn't use words like "penis" IMO which means an adult used that word when he put his penis on her leg, in other words, believe that kid.

I am not surprised at any of this because it's all about money.  Everybody kept silent because money was being made and no one wanted to lose their jobs, people think about themselves, their families, their bills.  Another person made a good point, that adults believe other adults over children.  

[Growsonwalls]

I think one thing to take from the Nassar case is that you cannot "tell" what is going on with people over a few minutes on TV. For so long I've seen people comment on how "healthy" the US gymnasts looked, how "confident" they were, and what a great drill sergeant Marta was. They saw the serene smile of Simone Biles and they thought that was all there was to it. Abuse? People thought that was something that happened to Chinese or Romanian gymnasts. But who could look at Simone or Aly and think they were victims of abuse?

I'm so glad a lot of that bullshit talk has stopped. I hope this leads to some soul-searching from EVERYONE involved in USA gymnastics. To the coaches: you weigh your gymnasts three times a day and monitor every drop of water they drink. Yet you had no idea what kind of treatments they were receiving from this doctor? To the parents: I'm not blaming any of you, but if you see something in your child's training that makes you think "not okay," it's probably not okay. It's your CHILD, not a future World/Olympic athlete. To Marta: I'm glad you feel guilty. You should.

[ChicksDigScars]

The girl whose parents did not believe her, and whose father ended up committing suicide over it, years later? Wow. And her mother stood behind her, as she conveyed this to the court.

"Who is John Geddert?" 

"SATAN." 

[Blakeston]

On 5/19/2019 at 1:13 PM, Neurochick said:

It's complicated.  Children DO lie about shit, but if a six year old girl said a man put his penis on her leg I'd be concerned because a six year old shouldn't use words like "penis" IMO which means an adult used that word when he put his penis on her leg, in other words, believe that kid.

By all means, her parents should have believed her.

But there are some parents who teach their kids proper anatomical terms at very young ages. I knew the words "penis" and "vagina" when I was younger than six.

Also, do we know if she's claiming that she used the word "penis" at the time? She might have used a word like "pee-pee" or "thingy" at the time, but then used the proper word in court because the alternative would sound weird in a formal statement.

[pigs-in-space]

5 hours ago, Blakeston said:

By all means, her parents should have believed her.

But there are some parents who teach their kids proper anatomical terms at very young ages. I knew the words "penis" and "vagina" when I was younger than six.

Also, do we know if she's claiming that she used the word "penis" at the time? She might have used a word like "pee-pee" or "thingy" at the time, but then used the proper word in court because the alternative would sound weird in a formal statement.

She seemed pretty clear in the podcast that she said "penis."

[ombelico]

The exact description she told her parents (according to the statement in court) was, “When Larry rubs my feet, he uses his penis.” I really can’t think of how a little kid would get an idea like that unless it actually happened to them. The parents were willfully calling their daughter a liar in not believing her. 

[Scarlett45]

On 5/21/2019 at 11:25 AM, Blakeston said:

By all means, her parents should have believed her.

But there are some parents who teach their kids proper anatomical terms at very young ages. I knew the words "penis" and "vagina" when I was younger than six.

Also, do we know if she's claiming that she used the word "penis" at the time? She might have used a word like "pee-pee" or "thingy" at the time, but then used the proper word in court because the alternative would sound weird in a formal statement.

Yes. Also it’s best to teach your child ACTUAL names for body parts so heaven forbid something like this happens to them they have the language to tell someone! Slang terms can’t be used as testimony the way actual words can.

(Pet peeve your vulva is not your vagina, stop telling kids that!)

On 5/21/2019 at 10:29 PM, ombelico said:

The exact description she told her parents (according to the statement in court) was, “When Larry rubs my feet, he uses his penis.” I really can’t think of how a little kid would get an idea like that unless it actually happened to them. The parents were willfully calling their daughter a liar in not believing her. 

Exactly! Where would a child that young (not a teen or pre teen) get an idea that people use their penises to rub feet? At BEST someone showed them something inappropriate, at worst it happened to them. 

I think the parents were in awe of Nassar and cared more about their friendship with him than their own daughter. 

On 5/19/2019 at 12:13 PM, Neurochick said:

Everybody kept silent because money was being made and no one wanted to lose their jobs, people think about themselves, their families, their bills.  Another person made a good point, that adults believe other adults over children.  

Yes because children are powerless in society and can’t do anything for others. Most people care about the well being of their own children, but how many care about the resources and prestige an adult can give them OVER their own child?!! Quite a number. 

[outofbounds]

This whole thing made me sick. And I watched it all go down when it was happening in the news. Nasser is gross and I’m glad it took down the entire organization as it should have.

However, it was heavy handed in some ways that I was uncomfortable with. Namely, the Karolyi’s. Did they create an environment for him to become the hero and abuse? Yes, but it didn’t happen purposefully. I don’t have a problem with them telling athletes they couldn’t see old coaches or that their parents couldn’t be on the floor. Parents, in some ways, can be a very bad influence on their kids in these situations. And in these sports where they are doing dangerous movements where it is IMPERATIVE that they listen to their coach. Having your parent in there giving pointers or offering up opinions is not conducive to that level of competition and I would contend that EVERY sport involves rules surrounding the involvement of the parents. I don’t know any coach who wants a parent around during training or practice. Same goes with coaches they may have at home.

I don’t think it’s fair to lay blame at their feet for this because I think, as someone also stated before, he groomed them as well. They didn’t know or suspect. He was a professional and they trusted him to do his job. And, not that it’s their fault that is so not what I’m saying, they willingly went to him for comfort. Bella and Marta are from a different country and a different generation where things like this are not discussed. They seem singularly focused on the task, creating world class athletes, which they did. 

None of the girls in the documentary or that I have seen in the news ever stated that they told Bella or Marta what was happening. Both coaches, as was stated before, were well known for not dealing well with the emotional part of the sport. It isn’t really shocking to me that they didn’t know or suspect.

They absolutely made mistakes. I just don’t think they are to blame in this instance.

Kathy Klages, Steve Penny, Lou Anna Simon are people, I believe, who shoulder most of the blame. They were not only told, they did things to curb suspicion away from Nasser and made girls think they were crazy for making accusations. They failed to do the most fundamental part of their jobs which was to protect their athletes, much like Joe Paterno who knew and did nothing.

I mean, if the girls feel resentment towards the Karolyi’s I’m not saying their wrong. Survivors can blame whoever to help them survive, I just don’t sit up in judgement of their coaching techniques. 

At the end of the day, it was a huge scandal that resulted in necessary consequences for those involved. I feel terrible for all the girls and I sincerely hope they find peace. That poor girl who lost her father....wow. 

I also have no problem with the judge or anything she said to Nasser. He made it clear he was not remorseful for his actions nor was he taking responsibility for them. And he tried to use the court system and her job as judge to garner sympathy and turn the story around to him, twice. She protected them. She’s human. And if I was tearing up listening to the girls statements then I can’t imagine how she must’ve felt standing in front of them. She did a fabulous job. 

[Quilt Fairy]

9 hours ago, outofbounds said:

I don’t know any coach who wants a parent around during training or practice.

Except it wasn't just during training or practice.  They took young teenage girls to an isolated location and kept them away from their friends and parents for weeks at a time.  Of course they're going to want a sympathetic person to listen to them after a hard practice.

The Karoli's brought the Soviet system to USA gymnastics, where individual athletes do not matter.  It's why they didn't deal well with the emotions.  And that's what we wanted, because the USA wanted medals.

[bybrandy]

I followed the case at the time so nothing was really was learned in the documentary but I thought it was well done and I think it is important for people to see that kind of grooming behavior works and how concerns get downplayed.  If one person listens to a child in their life about abusive behavior who might not have listened before?  Worth it.   

 

[Blakeston]

On 6/7/2019 at 10:51 AM, outofbounds said:

I also have no problem with the judge or anything she said to Nasser. He made it clear he was not remorseful for his actions nor was he taking responsibility for them. And he tried to use the court system and her job as judge to garner sympathy and turn the story around to him, twice. She protected them. She’s human. 

None of that justifies a judge telling a defendant that she'd like him to be raped. No matter how ugly the trial gets, that's simply not an acceptable thing to say.

Plenty of judges have gotten through horrific cases involving people who both raped and murdered children, without sinking to the level of saying that.

[Growsonwalls]

I'm not sure if this is related but I noticed that so many of Larry Nassar's victims are not married nor are they in relationships, and many of them are at the age where one would think they'd be married/having kids. Absolutely not a judgement on them, just an observation. It wouldn't surprise me if the scars he left made them have serious trust issues around relationships and unable to connect with people in a physical way.

What a horrible evil man.

[Scarlett45]

On 6/13/2019 at 8:01 PM, Growsonwalls said:

I'm not sure if this is related but I noticed that so many of Larry Nassar's victims are not married nor are they in relationships, and many of them are at the age where one would think they'd be married/having kids. Absolutely not a judgement on them, just an observation. It wouldn't surprise me if the scars he left made them have serious trust issues around relationships and unable to connect with people in a physical way.

What a horrible evil man.

Most of his victims that we saw seemed to be young to me (mid 20s or earlier). It’s not odd to be without children or unmarried at that age. They may have romantic relationships but not felt the need to discuss it on camera as it wasn’t related to the case. 

I didn’t think from your post that you were judging the women at all, but there’s an assumption that every woman WANTS a romantic relationship with a man, or if she has one she will talk about it all the time- which isn’t true for many young women. 

[Hanahope]

On 5/5/2019 at 1:01 PM, Porkchop said:

Is there any way to watch this if I don't have HBO? Go visit a friend, I guess.

If you still haven't watched it, or even if you have, I second the suggestion to listen to the podcast Believed on this subject.  They did an excellent job.

[Sarahsmile416]

On 5/21/2019 at 12:25 PM, Blakeston said:

By all means, her parents should have believed her.

But there are some parents who teach their kids proper anatomical terms at very young ages. I knew the words "penis" and "vagina" when I was younger than six.

Also, do we know if she's claiming that she used the word "penis" at the time? She might have used a word like "pee-pee" or "thingy" at the time, but then used the proper word in court because the alternative would sound weird in a formal statement.

And this is why I have taught my daughter’s to say vagina and penis since they were 1.5. 

[outofbounds]

On 6/7/2019 at 6:25 PM, Quilt Fairy said:

Except it wasn't just during training or practice.  They took young teenage girls to an isolated location and kept them away from their friends and parents for weeks at a time.  Of course they're going to want a sympathetic person to listen to them after a hard practice.

The Karoli's brought the Soviet system to USA gymnastics, where individual athletes do not matter.  It's why they didn't deal well with the emotions.  And that's what we wanted, because the USA wanted medals.

This makes it sound super nefarious.  Like they wanted to create the environment where Nasser could thrive.  This is what I take issue with.  They didn't.  Their goal was to create an environment where the girls wouldn't have distractions.  Which is what ALL coaches strive for when it comes to competition at the level these girls were competing.  

And they didn't TAKE anyone, parents agreed to allowing their daughters to go.  So I'm thinking maybe the isolation wasn't necessarily an issue for their parents. 

Many of the girls' parents were in the room when he abused them and THEY didn't know it.  How can anyone expect Bella or Marta to have known?  I'm quite positive that these parents feel guilt beyond measure for what happened to their kids, but I'm also positive Bella and Marta do as well.  

Like I said, it was heavy handed when it came to them and their culpability.  The anger towards them, IMO, is misplaced.

[CherryMalotte]

I want to thank those who suggested listening to the Believed podcast.  All I want to do now is hug each and every one of those young women who endured that monster abusing them.  What really burns my barn down is all those damned USAG coaches and Michigan State staff that knew what was going on and did nothing.  So many more girls suffered because the first reports weren't dealt with the way they should have been.   

Edited September 3, 2019 by CherryMalotte
ETA - correction to college

[ombelico]

7 hours ago, CherryMalotte said:

University of Michigan staff that knew there what was going on and did nothing.  

Michigan State

One of the parts (of so, so many) that really grinds my gears is MSU former president Simon saying that it's "impossible to stop a determined predator." You know, I can see that when someone does something horrible the first time. You can't always predict that. But this guy abused hundreds, if not over a thousand, girls and young women. There was a pattern, and they had 20 years knowing full well what kind of monster he is. No excuses.

[SunnyBeBe]

I just watched this documentary and it was powerful.  It reinforces my believe in how sick many in our nation are with child sex abuse. I knew pretty much what to expect in the film, but, still it was helpful to see how it all came about.

  What happened to the girls was horrific and criminal and there are no excuses from any of those who condoned, defended, enabled or sympathized with Nasser, imo.   When your job involves the care and training of a minor, the responsibilities are great and the standard is high.  You really have to MAKE CERTAIN no wolves are in with the children. If you are tone deaf, you might use that as an excuse, but, it's not. You put policies into place that help prevent harm, in case you drop the ball.  So, I have no sympathy or understanding for anyone who aided or enabled Nasser.  Maybe, I read too much, but, I'm always suspicious of someone who LOVES kids and spends lots of time alone with them.  How many times do we have to get this lesson before people wake up. 

While I don't  blame the parents, I do understand why they might feel guilty.  Their job is protect their kids too and you really have to do your homework to ensure that happens.  What the film didn't explain, that I saw, anyway, was HOW EXACTLY DID THE DOCTOR touch the girls's genitals WHILE their parent was in the room?  Was the parent reading, on the phone, looking out the window?  How was that possible? Did they observe it and think it was standard treatment?    A child is blameless and likely very naive, but, parents don't have the right to be that way when their children's safety is at risk.  

One thing about ALL of the many girls who were abused....they seem to draw strength from each other, now that so many have opened up.  I've read that it helps to know that you're not alone.  I hope it helps them. The courage shown by these young women, as well as some young men, in the Jackson matter, is really astounding.  It touches and humbles me to see such courage and tenacity.  

[Quilt Fairy]

6 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

What the film didn't explain, that I saw, anyway, was HOW EXACTLY DID THE DOCTOR touch the girls's genitals WHILE their parent was in the room?  Was the parent reading, on the phone, looking out the window?  How was that possible? Did they observe it and think it was standard treatment? 

It's been a while since I saw this and read up on it, but IIRC the way Nasser explained it to the parents and the girls was that he needed to put his fingers up their vagina as part of an orthopedic manipulation of the hips/pelvis/spine.  Which explanation they took at face value because that was his area of expertise. 

[SunnyBeBe]

2 minutes ago, Quilt Fairy said:

It's been a while since I saw this and read up on it, but IIRC the way Nasser explained it to the parents and the girls was that he needed to put his fingers up their vagina as part of an orthopedic manipulation of the hips/pelvis/spine.  Which explanation they took at face value because that was his area of expertise. 

It really boggles the mind that they were so gullible, if they went for that. 

[Quilt Fairy]

8 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

It really boggles the mind that they were so gullible, if they went for that. 

Remember that the girls were elite athletes, and you don't get to that level without being extremely motivated and without having tremendous support from your family.  When you have someone who's an official in the program say this is what's going to help you get better or take away that pain, you figure you just go with it. 

[SunnyBeBe]

16 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

Remember that the girls were elite athletes, and you don't get to that level without being extremely motivated and without having tremendous support from your family.  When you have someone who's an official in the program say this is what's going to help you get better or take away that pain, you figure you just go with it. 

Yes, I realize that's the excuse that's given. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

140 plaintiffs have filed a civil case against the organizations that helped cover up Larry Nassar's serial sexual abuse

A brief timeline/update:

• An investigation commissioned by the USOPC found that that USOPC CEO Scott Blackmun and USOC chief of sport performance Alan Ashley were first notified by USA Gymnastics CEO Steve Penny of allegations against Nassar in July 2015. Yet neither Blackmun or Ashley took action or reported it to USOC board members, the report said.
• Several people were subpoenaed during the 2018 investigation. Blackmun, USOPC board chair Susanne Lyons and Adams were not deposed in the California cases. Blackmun was served with a deposition subpoena in 2018 but his attorneys requested a delay citing a “recent medical issue.” Survivors’ attorneys agreed to the delay which was put on further hold by the stay.
• During the California depositions, USOPC officials and employees were instructed by their attorneys not to answer questions unrelated to jurisdictional issues. In his September 2018 deposition, USOPC Chief of Sport Performance Rick Adams was instructed more than 60 times by USOPC attorneys not to answer questions. USOPC attorneys told USOPC board chairman Larry Probst not to answer “well-over 100 questions” in his October 26, 2018 deposition. Film producer Frank Marshall’s November 20, 2018 deposition “was littered by instructions from counsel not to answer questions related to liability,” according court documents.
• In 2018, Blackmun received a $2.4 million buy-out from the USOPC after he was forced to resign amid allegations he was involved in the cover-up of sexual abuse by Nassar, according to financial documents. Blackmun was referred to the Department of Justice and FBI in December 2018 for criminal investigation by two U.S. Senators who accused him of making false statements and misleading Congress. Ashley was fired in December 2018 after the findings of the USOPC commissioned investigation were released.
• USA Gymnastics filed for Chapter 11 protection in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in December 2018, triggering an automatic stay on all legal proceedings and litigation including discovery.
• In February 2020, USA Gymnastics outlined a proposed $217 million settlement agreement asking the more than 500 survivors to accept a deal releasing the USOPC, former USA Gymnastics CEO Steve Penny, former U.S. women’s coach Don Peters, former national team directors Bela and Martha Karolyi, 2012 Olympic coach John Geddert and others from “any and all claims arising from or related to Abuse Claims or Future Claims.”
• Also in February 2020, USOPC chief medical officer William Moreau filed a whistleblower lawsuit claiming that he was fired after he questioned top executives for how they managed reports of sexual abuse and treated mental health issues. In April 2018, the USOPC received a report that a 15 year old Paralympic track athlete had been sexually assaulted by a 20 year old athlete while they were at the Drake Relays. A track coach employed by the USOPC told them that the victim was having suicidal thoughts. Instead of reporting to police, as both Iowa and federal law required, USOPC vice president of sports medicine Bill Moreau claims that USOPC's chief of sport performance Rick Adams began conducting an internal investigation. The USOPC filed a complaint with the U.S. Center for SafeSport on April 30, but did not classify what had happened as a "reportable offense."
• In a hearing June 8 (initiated by USOPC attorneys), Mitchell A. Kamin, an attorney for the USOPC, argued that survivors' attorneys had already conducted depositions of USOPC officials and employees in the California lawsuits prior to the Chapter 11 triggered stay. These are the 2018 depositions described above.
• Today's filing asks the U.S. Bankruptcy Court in the Southern District of Indiana to order eight current or former USOPC officials and employees to comply with subpoenas for depositions in Nassar-related civil lawsuits in California and Michigan within 30 days. Attorneys for the women also asked Judge Robyn L. Moberly to require the USOPC to produce documents subpoenaed in those cases within 30 days.
• The survivors’ attorneys are seeking to depose former USOPC CEO Scott Blackmun, former USOPC board chairman Larry Probst, current board chair Susanne Lyons, USOPC Chief of Sport Performance Rick Adams, former USOC chief of sport performance Alan Ashley, former USOPC and USA Gymnastics board member Frank Marshall, former USOPC chief medical officer William Moreau, and USOPC chief financial officer Morane Kerek,

Quote

“The USOPC seeks to quietly hide in the periphery of this bankruptcy, while receiving a sweeping release and channeling injunction (if the settlement election is agreed to by half of the claimants), without contributing a cent of its own money to settlement and also without disclosing any facts whatsoever related to its liabilities; all the while, relying upon a one-sided distortion of its exposure, as described in the Disclosure Statement,” survivors attorneys said in Monday’s motion.

“The reason why these cases exist in the first place is because these institutions—including the USOPC — operated under a veil of secrecy and lack transparency that allowed sexual assault to fester. It seems that the USOPC has learned nothing, hopes to change nothing, and seeks a free pass from the Court in return for multiple press releases containing platitudes yet no substantive change. At a minimum, if these Survivors are going to release all rights to recover against the USOPC, they must be given some insight into the USOPC’s institutional knowledge of abuse and exposure, sufficient to inform their decision.”

The depositions are needed, attorneys for the survivors maintain, to provide the women with an accurate account of the USOPC’s finances before signing off an agreement that releases the organization from financial and legal liability.

The depositions would also shine new light on why Michigan State was not contacted USOPC officials, along with USA Gymnastics and FBI officials, after they were presented with allegations of sexual abuse against Nassar by multiple gymnasts in the summer of 2015.

[...]

“The USOC’s (legal) position is directly contrary to their public position,” Manly said. “Let’s be clear what they’re saying is they don’t have any duty to tell the victims if they know someone’s a child molester. That’s what they’re saying — that  even though they knew Larry Nassar was a child molester they didn’t have to tell anybody and they could allow him to serially molest hundreds of little girls after they knew.

“That’s an amazing position for a federally chartered corporation in charge of the Olympics to take. I hope that the public, media and Congress read this and understand the position they’re taking because it’s clear that if they actually believe that the leadership of the USOC is completely morally bankrupt, the whole thing needs to go.”

[...]

Alex Cunny, an attorney for the survivors, served notice on the subpoenas for the USOPC depositions and documents last month. Attorneys for the USOPC then filed a motion for a protective order limiting discovery.

[...]

“Despite an inadequate disclosure of information necessary to evaluate the claims, the USOPC has the audacity to claim that “[a]lthough technically limited to jurisdictional issues, the USOPC witnesses’ prior testimony fully explored all Nassar-related issues, which are the core evidentiary questions relevant to the vast majority of Claimants in this matter…” This claim is a fabrication, misrepresentation, and violation of the USOPC’s duty of candor to this Court. In fact, as counsel for the USOPC fully knows (as it is the very same counsel who litigated those underlying claims in state court), the USOPC did everything in its power, during that abbreviated discovery, to limit discovery in those matters to solely personal jurisdictional issues. During the process, the USOPC stonewalled the Survivors as to any and all liability discovery, which it took steps to prevent  at every turn. This is well documented in a legion of emails and deposition transcripts that were not disclosed to this Court, by the USOPC, in its Protective Order Motion. In order for this Court to have a full picture of this issue, the Survivors have disclosed those emails and transcripts herein for this Court’s edification.”

 

Edited June 16, 2020 by ElectricBoogaloo

[SunnyBeBe]

It looks like they're trying to postpone discovery, since they filed bankruptcy.  Also, the defenses they are throwing out there are likely technical defenses involving duties that they may or may not be able to get any traction with.  Seems like a lot of work, though.  Why not just figure out how to distribute the money and pay it out in damages?  Those millions in legal fees could go to the survivors. 

Edited June 18, 2020 by SunnyBeBe

[Quilt Fairy]

Just FYI all, there is a new Netflix documentary about this called Athlete A.

[SunnyBeBe]

On 6/24/2020 at 10:31 PM, Quilt Fairy said:

Just FYI all, there is a new Netflix documentary about this called Athlete A.

I watched Athlete A and thought it was excellent!  In some ways, better than At The Heart of Gold.  It didn't have as many girls speak, but, it provided MORE information on some issues. In fact, after watching Athlete A, I FINALLY got just how devious the US Gymnastics organization was. The ENTIRE thing was rotten and no one cared for the girls. It's difficult to imagine that degree of cruelty.  It was MUCH more than the sexual abuse by Nasser. I get why the survivors are still hurt.  It's sort of like your country conspired to torture you for years. AND, they get away with it.