S01.E02: Chapter Two

[Door County Cherry]

Airs June 28, 2020

Quote

 

Following one of her trademark barn-burning sermons, Evangelical preacher Sister Alice (Tatiana Maslany) offers the Dodsons the church's full moral and financial support – much to her mother Birdy's (Lili Taylor) dismay. During a routine domestic intervention, beat cop Paul Drake (Chris Chalk) is rerouted to a gruesome crime scene, where he follows a confounding trail of evidence. Mason (Matthew Rhys) is left incensed by a jaw-dropping admission from Baggerly (Robert Patrick) and, after pressing Emily (Gayle Rankin) on her husband's alibi, finds himself confronted by an outraged Della (Juliet Rylance). Detectives Holcomb (Eric Lange) and Ennis (Andrew Howard) use Drake's (Chris Chalk) findings to their own advantage.

Written by Rolin Jones & Ron Fitzgerald; directed by Tim Van Patten.

 

 

[Door County Cherry]

Hi everyone,

Before we begin tonight, please take a moment to review this forum's rules.  

I've also created a thread where we can discuss the potential real life inspirations for some of the characters and stories. It's fine to mention if aspects of a case or a character remind you of a real life person but in depth discussion about the cases/real people should go in this thread.

Thank you! 

[paigow]

How much money was burnt? 100K would leave a lot more than a few partially burned bills...especially if there are so many $20s..

That is the worst staged suicide ever...Did George even have a typewriter? A shotgun blast to the head does not leave half the face undamaged.. 

[scrb]

What are the war flashbacks suppose to reveal?

Perry was a badass, led the charge, could have died, made some mercy killings.

1930s PTSD for a hard-boiled detective.

Blatant racism everywhere but you're not going to see or hear it from the main characters probably.  

Infidelity, by a woman, is a big deal back then but Perry doesn't see that as making Emily likely for conspiring to kidnap her own child.  He's more evolved than his peers of the time because of his horrific trench warfare memories?

Good seeing that Della isn't going to be a potted plant.  She will answer the phones for now but EB better hire more people or get an answering service.

Some characters will be formed through a 21st century ethos while others are still of the unenlightened, but brutal times -- people living in the streets, queuing up outside the labor agency for work.

Sister Alice didn't go by the expected script according to Mother in her funeral services sermon, talking about how the justice system of the time, which we've seen is corrupt, will conquer the evil who killed the child.

Tatiana Maslany gets the billing but Officer Drake had a more impressive debut than Sister Alice.

[sistermagpie]

38 minutes ago, scrb said:

What are the war flashbacks suppose to reveal?

Perry was a badass, led the charge, could have died, made some mercy killings.

 

I thought the mercy killings were the point. His main trait is a compassionate streak, which also comes out as wanting justice. As a defense attorney he'd be protecting innocent people in a bad situation. He's pulled himself more together after connecting with Charlie and was initially angry at the mother thinking she was guilty, but then couldn't top thinking about Della pointing out that infidelity isn't murder--iow, maybe she's just a flawed person (like him) who's being accused of something she didn't do and needs help.

Likewise, he didn't have to kill any of those guys in the war, but wanted to spare them being burned alive by the enemy and he got labelled a monster for it.

[Annber03]

All right, well, the bit with Perry poking about George's hideously messed up face was gruesome. 

I do like the tense back and forth between Perry and Emily, though, and the struggle both for him to get her to open up and her reluctance to open up about things. Being arrested as she's leaving with her baby's coffin, though. Damn. I like Sister Alice showing her support for her. 

I also very much sympathize with Della's frustration at work :p. 

 

[Guest]

I thought this was a real improvement from a story standpoint but I missed some of the classic noir beats from the first episode. Overall it felt more cohesive and easier to follow. 

I could have done without the gruesome dead body. I had to look away and missed the connection between the teeth discovered then and by Paul Drake’s at the end. Fortunately the recaps are good for filling in those details. I guess the resemblance between the dad and one of the kidnappers is just because Emily Dodson has a type. 

I liked the introduction of Paul Drake and am looking forward to the inevitable point in when he begins to work with Mason. 

I could have done without the flashbacks but they definitely inform who Mason is as a character.  

[Jextella]

This isn't the best crafted show in town, I think.  It's choppy, slow, too obvious in parts and too convoluted in others.  Still, episode 2 was better than episode 1 which is encouraging and I will likely watch to the end.

I do like the idea of bringing Perry Mason back and doing so in the time period they've chosen.

So, at some point, Mason must go back to school to become an attorney?!?!

I really like seeing Drake and Della as prominent players.  I wouldn't mind a series with the same three actors (and Lithgow) down the road.  

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, scrb said:

Tatiana Maslany gets the billing but Officer Drake had a more impressive debut than Sister Alice.

For me Chris Chalk as Drake and Tatiana Maslany as Sister Alice delivered equally riveting performances, but that may be because I am familiar with Pentecostal church services and the style of performative preaching done therein. What may have appeared as over-the-top acting by Maslany will likely be revealed as part of Alice’s act. 
 

1 hour ago, Dani said:

I guess the resemblance between the dad and one of the kidnappers is just because Emily Dodson has a type. 

Definitely a possibility. 
 

Most interesting to me was that we didn’t hear anguished sobs of grief from Emily until she learned her lover was dead. IRL I would excuse that to bottled up grief for her dead baby spilling over when triggered by the announcement of her lover’s death. But in this story, who knows?

Stephen Root!

[nilyank]

21 minutes ago, Jextella said:

 

So, at some point, Mason must go back to school to become an attorney?!?!

I really like seeing Drake and Della as prominent players.  I wouldn't mind a series with the same three actors (and Lithgow) down the road.  

It has been a decade since WWI. He could have gone to law school before/after the war. 

[Guest]

51 minutes ago, Jextella said:

So, at some point, Mason must go back to school to become an attorney?!?!

If they choose to have him become a lawyer he wouldn’t need to go to law school. He could apprentice with a lawyer and pass the bar.  Even today law school isn’t a requirement in California. 

Edited June 29, 2020 by Guest

[Jextella]

34 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Most interesting to me was that we didn’t hear anguished sobs of grief from Emily until she learned her lover was dead.

This is a really great point.

How old was the child?  He looked like more of an infant than a toddler.  If that's the case, how could he show an interest in turtles so clearly?  I could see a toddler liking them, but not any younger than that.

[thuganomics85]

Yeah, the props/make-up department was having way too much fun with that "suicide" body.  Safe to say I've seen a lot of gross/unnerving stuff on television, but those close-ups made me flinch.

It was nice seeing a more competent Perry this time and showing off some solid sleuthing skills this time.  That said, it is obvious that he jumped the gun with thinking Emily is the kidnapper/killer.  I can understand him wanting to keep an eye on her, but as Della pretty much said, Emily being a likely cheater doesn't mean she's a kidnapper/killer (just like Matt being a gambling addict doesn't mean he is one either.)  Still think that the baby's death is going to involve this religious group.

Speaking of which, Tatiana Maslany has arrived!  Although, from what I can tell, it seems like Lili Taylor's character might actually be the leader technically (since everyone calls her "Mother"), while I guess Sister Alice is really the face and main attraction for the church.  Either way, she clearly wields a lot of power, and it certainly look like the Mother was not happy with how Sister Alice went off script during the eulogy.  Curious to see what is going on here.

Chris Chalk also makes his first appearance as Paul Drake.  It seems clear that he is going to be someone who will eventually point Perry in the right direction concerning the corrupt detectives, and I'm looking forward to their interactions.

Stephen Root is pretty much right at home as a sleazy district attorney, although he still has a ways to go to match the pure vileness that is his Funches on Barry!

Already getting a kick out of the hostile relationship between E.B. and Pete/Shea Whigham's character.

I guess the war flashback was to show that Perry's was dishonorably discharged for mercy killing some of his own soldiers, because even though they seemed to be goners, I guess the military would still frown upon a soldier killing his own men.

Overall, I thought this was a solid step above the pilot and, again, the cast is firing on all cylinders here. 

[Lily H]

I couldn't make it more than 15 minutes into this episode. This show is just awful. It reminds me of that putrid Poirot re-imagining (ABC Murders) in that it's just lazy, terrible writers stealing a famous name and trying to capitalize on it.

It's too bad, because I really like Matthew Rhys, but this show has zero entertainment value. If I want to see racism, religious conmen, and corrupt, incompetent, killer cops, I can just watch the news.

[EtheltoTillie]

I liked this episode a lot, but I thought that Sister Alice came off as too modern in look and sound.

Poor Perry.  He is really carrying a terrible burden from his war service.

Edited June 29, 2020 by GussieK

[LoveLeigh]

1 hour ago, Lily H said:

I couldn't make it more than 15 minutes into this episode. This show is just awful. 

I like the show but I have a real hard time keeping track of the characters and their names and following the characters' threads within the story. I have to watch each episode a few times ro sort it all out. 

For instance, tonight I was like: "Who is George?" Was he in chapter 1? And then they introduce new characters and I get lost. And I was also confused with the character who turns out to be Matthew's father. There is John Lithgow and Robert Patrick and Shea Wigham and for some reason to me they all start to look alike. And was it Della Street eating with Emily in that cafeteria or does she have a lookalike too? 

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Yeah, the props/make-up department was having way too much fun with that "suicide" body.  Safe to say I've seen a lot of gross/unnerving stuff on television, but those close-ups made me flinch.

I understood that we were supposed to be seeing something about the teeth, but not what. This NY Times recap (nytimes.com/2020/06/28/arts/television/perry-mason-recap-episode-2.html) explains:

Quote

...Officer Banks returns to the scene of the crime and discovers half a set of false teeth in the alley below the rooftop where the blood trail ran cold — the other half of which is lodged in the “suicidal” George Gammon’s mouth, indicating the body was moved....

 

***************

 

1 hour ago, DakotaLavender said:

I like the show but I have a real hard time keeping track of the characters and their names and following the characters' threads within the story....
For instance, tonight I was like: "Who is George?" Was he in chapter 1? And then they introduce new characters and I get lost. And I was also confused with the character who turns out to be Matthew's father. There is John Lithgow and Robert Patrick and Shea Wigham and for some reason to me they all start to look alike. And was it Della Street eating with Emily in that cafeteria or does she have a lookalike too? 

I'm willing to roll with the character confusion at this point because I think it is somewhat deliberate, and because they've got no more than 8 episodes to prove to me that the character confusion is worthwhile.

[AnimeMania]

Why didn't Perry just ask the thread guy what kind of thread that was. I am sure the thread guy would have told him something like "It is the same thread that taxidermists use to sew stuffed alligators closed" or something to that effect. 

You would think the jails would be filled to the brim during a depression, since everybody would be looking for a free meal. Anyway three-legged dogs seem to be doing quite well in this era.

[Door County Cherry]

I'm still enjoying this show but I am having somewhat of a difficult time figure out who is who beyond the mail players.  Everybody is pretty clean cut and the colors are muted so it's harder to highlight distinguishing features. The kidnappers are where things get muddled for me.  Thanks to this thread, I know that one of the cops is dirty.  And I would have assumed that George might have been killed and framed by someone else if the teeth thing hadn't been pointed out.  I don't watch TV close enough to see what clues they're finding. 

10 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

For me Chris Chalk as Drake and Tatiana Maslany as Sister Alice delivered equally riveting performances, but that may be because I am familiar with Pentecostal church services and the style of performative preaching done therein.

I think Sister Alice had the more showy debut while Paul Drake's intro was more well rounded with a goal of establishing this character.  I enjoyed them both.

How many times has Matthew Rhys played a gay character?  I thought the 1/4 Welsh and "queer only once" were allusions to the actor. He's definitely Welsh and he played a gay character on Brothers & Sisters. 

[tennisgurl]

Everyone seems to think that Charlies kidnapping/murder was a kidnapping for money gone horribly wrong, but I dont think thats the whole story. Some of the guys involved probably were just in it for the money, but this also seems a bit too...personal? Sadistic? Calling up the Dobsons and making them think they had given Charlie back only to leave his corpse, and sewing his eyes shut, that just seems so nasty, more than just a crime for cash that ended in a death. Did one of the kidnappers have a grudge against the Dobsons or Mr. Dobsons powerful father? Are they just a sadistic killer who took an opportunity to be awful? That just seems like a lot for some garden variety crooks. 

Not quite as noir as the first episode, but still has a lot of my favorite trappings of the genre. I like that we got to see Perry as a more competent investigator, especially after seeing what a mess he was last week. He is a messy guy who has a TON of personal issues, but he is also still a smart guy who has a strong sense of justice and empathy, even if its more hidden now. Thats probably one of the reasons for the flashbacks, beyond Perry's obvious post war trauma, that he tried to do what was right during a horrible situation, even if it ended badly for him. The stuff with the Dobsons also ties into that, how while Emily was having an affair and Matthew was a gambler, that doesn't automatically make them murderers. A lot of that happened on the 50s Perry Mason show, if I remember right. Perry often defended people who did some questionable things, like petty crime or drinking or affairs, and that would inevitably make the cops think that they killed whoever the corpse of the week was, but Perry would always prove that they were innocent by the end, and they usually ended the episode promising to never do whatever petty thing they had been doing because they need to stop stumbling across dead bodies. 

That closeup on the guy with his head blown off was nasty, can we not?

Emily was certainly horrified that her lover was dead, she seemed more upset about that than her husband facing a murder charge and being hung. 

I would totally join a religious movement with Tatiana Maslany as its head preacher, if for no other reason than to hear her speak! I am not sure how the church connects with this case, but it has to be something right? We also meet the shows version of Paul Drake, who seems pretty interesting, and I am ready for him and Perry to meet up and start working together. 

[sistermagpie]

10 hours ago, Jextella said:

This is a really great point.

How old was the child?  He looked like more of an infant than a toddler.  If that's the case, how could he show an interest in turtles so clearly?  I could see a toddler liking them, but not any younger than that.

His mom could easily have just been projecting there. Like at some point the baby showed interest in a turtle or a fake turtle and so she started collecting them for his room. She would have so little to remember of him as a baby, she was trying to hold onto him as a person. Same as Perry was trying to do a bit with his son that he doesn't see. That also made him a person to Perry.

 

7 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

I like the show but I have a real hard time keeping track of the characters and their names and following the characters' threads within the story. I have to watch each episode a few times ro sort it all out. 

For instance, tonight I was like: "Who is George?" Was he in chapter 1? And then they introduce new characters and I get lost. And I was also confused with the character who turns out to be Matthew's father. There is John Lithgow and Robert Patrick and Shea Wigham and for some reason to me they all start to look alike. And was it Della Street eating with Emily in that cafeteria or does she have a lookalike too? 

That was Della eating with her. That's when Perry was following them. I really love Della and Perry together, btw.

27 minutes ago, Door County Cherry said:

I think Sister Alice had the more showy debut while Paul Drake's intro was more well rounded with a goal of establishing this character.  I enjoyed them both.

Yes, but that also fit the characters, I thought. Sister Alice is a public figure with a whole act it's going to be harder to get behind. Paul Drake's an upfront person whose life informs his work. It as a little funny when his wife asked him why he changed his report--but at least they had him just say, "Why do you think?"

Quote

How many times has Matthew Rhys played a gay character?  I thought the 1/4 Welsh and "queer only once" were allusions to the actor. He's definitely Welsh and he played a gay character on Brothers & Sisters. 

I did think the 1/4 Welsh note was a little nod to the actor who's like the Welshiest Welshman who ever Welshed, but I thought the queer line was just Perry making a joke (whether or not it was true). It was a good line, I thought.

Also I did genuinely laugh when EB said, "I don't pay for whorehouses" and everyone in the room paused to turn to Pete. The timing was perfect. Degenerate! He even used the word! Oh, and I also loved Perry's look to EB when Pete (that is his name, right?) said the husband had an alibi. Really, that whole scene with the four of them, when Pete pointed out to Perry that his own story lacked logic and Perry saw that was true. It would be great if Paul could be added to that group as well.

 

23 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Everyone seems to think that Charlies kidnapping/murder was a kidnapping for money gone horribly wrong, but I dont think thats the whole story. Some of the guys involved probably were just in it for the money, but this also seems a bit too...personal? Sadistic? Calling up the Dobsons and making them think they had given Charlie back only to leave his corpse, and sewing his eyes shut, that just seems so nasty, more than just a crime for cash that ended in a death. Did one of the kidnappers have a grudge against the Dobsons or Mr. Dobsons powerful father? Are they just a sadistic killer who took an opportunity to be awful? That just seems like a lot for some garden variety crooks. 

The eyes were actually sewn open, which I think in the real-life case that echoes this one was due to the killer regretting his impetuous murder and trying to make the child look alive for a few moments so the parent would originally think they were alive.

But my instinct is still to agree with you, that it's almost strange nobody has brought up the sadism here making it seem personal. Perry's saying they wanted money and the murder was an accident but I kept thinking...so do they get paid for sewing the kids' eyes open? That seems important!

I wonder if Perry's wife cheated on him and that's why he was so quick to get angry at the wife and not the gambler husband. Likewise, while it's Della's job to deal with Emily, she might feel a personal connection to her as a woman, especially she seemed last week like she might be a lesbian. That's certainly something that would make her a suspect for any crime.

[Jextella]

Anyone know if Pete Strickland was in the original series?  I love the character.

Edited June 29, 2020 by Jextella

[paigow]

24 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

We also meet the shows version of Paul Drake, who seems pretty interesting, and I am ready for him and Perry to meet up and start working together. 

[Interior: Drake kitchen]

Mason: Mr. Drake, you got great investigative instincts, I want you to work for me.

Drake: How much? LAPD is full of morons, but it pays the bills.

Mason [pulling out wallet]: Five bucks...for now

Drake: You have 10 seconds before I shoot you

[tennisgurl]

3 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

The eyes were actually sewn open, which I think in the real-life case that echoes this one was due to the killer regretting his impetuous murder and trying to make the child look alive for a few moments so the parent would originally think they were alive.

 

Ugh your right, I think I blocked that from my memory! Those eyes! Whatever this was, it seems like more than just a kidnapping that ended with a child accidentally dying. The sewing speaks to something different psychologically than just a crime for cash that went badly. Maybe remorse, or something darker? Have they found other babies with eyes like that? People also seem to think that Charlies death was an accident, that the kidnappers messed up and killed him by mistake or due to negligence, but maybe this was all a smokescreen to murder him and disguise it as a kidnapping gone south? I think they should look into the rest of the family of the rich father/grandfather, maybe Charlie had a chance of getting some of his inheritance if the guy died, and someone decided to kill him before he could, and also take Henry out of the picture too by trying to set him up? Or some other rich people thing, it seems like there will be more to that guys story and his connection to Henry and his family. Or maybe Charlie is the biological child of Emily's lover, and its something to do with him? 

That actually could bring the Dobsons back into the suspect list, with Henry being furious at his wife having another mans child or Charlie having some kind of marker that would show that he isn't Henry's bio child and expose the affair, but I dont think that either of them actually kidnapped/killed Charlie. I do, however, think that the affair will play some part in this.  

Edited June 29, 2020 by tennisgurl

[DoubleUTeeEff]

2 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

12 hours ago, Jextella said:

How old was the child?  He looked like more of an infant than a toddler.  If that's the case, how could he show an interest in turtles so clearly?  I could see a toddler liking them, but not any younger than that.

His mom could easily have just been projecting there. Like at some point the baby showed interest in a turtle or a fake turtle and so she started collecting them for his room. She would have so little to remember of him as a baby, she was trying to hold onto him as a person. Same as Perry was trying to do a bit with his son that he doesn't see. That also made him a person to Perry.

I thought that the turtle was from the same place as the alligator. Since we saw that the alligator had been cut open, I figured it was a hiding place and that the turtle might be as well. Did any one else see that or am I making stuff up?

[sistermagpie]

7 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I thought that the turtle was from the same place as the alligator. Since we saw that the alligator had been cut open, I figured it was a hiding place and that the turtle might be as well. Did any one else see that or am I making stuff up?

Nope, I saw it and I did wonder if there was some connection even though it wasn't a turtle. Even if the turtle wasn't a hiding place maybe there was some connection.

[luckyroll3]

13 hours ago, Dani said:

If they choose to have him become a lawyer he wouldn’t need to go to law school. He could apprentice with a lawyer and pass the bar.  Even today law school isn’t a requirement in California. 

This is exactly what Kim Kardashian is doing.

The detectives and the chief are ruthless.  Having the press there to arrest the husband and getting the mom at the funeral.  Brutal.  

[paigow]

Just now, Jextella said:

I wonder if the mother and Gordon set all this up so they could run away together,

George

[shapeshifter]

20 minutes ago, luckyroll3 said:

14 hours ago, Dani said:

If they choose to have him become a lawyer he wouldn’t need to go to law school. He could apprentice with a lawyer and pass the bar.  Even today law school isn’t a requirement in California. 

This is exactly what Kim Kardashian is doing.

My ex's wife was an office assistant for her first husband (lawyer) in California and then later took and passed the bar. So maybe Lithgow's character will continue to mentor Mason.

[Enigma X]

I enjoyed the episode. It left me wanting more. I missed the noir fill of the first episode but felt this one was overall better.

[AnimeMania]

So did Perry kill more enemy soldiers or his own soldiers?

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Jextella said:

Anyone know if Pete Strickland was in the original series?  I love the character.

 No. He’s an original character for this series. 

2 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

So did Perry kill more enemy soldiers or his own soldiers?

His own. 

[shapeshifter]

11 minutes ago, Dani said:

2 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

So did Perry kill more enemy soldiers or his own soldiers?

His own.

We saw Perry killing more of his "own" soldiers, but that might be because his PTSD causes him to relive those killings over and over and not the killings of the "enemy."

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

17 minutes ago, Dani said:

2 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

So did Perry kill more enemy soldiers or his own soldiers?

His own.

We saw Perry killing more of his "own" soldiers, but that might be because his PTSD causes him to relive those killings over and over and not the killings of the "enemy."

Yeah, we only saw the kills that were up close and personal.  He fired a lot of shots that we did not see the outcome of. 

[Door County Cherry]

One random thing that I forgot to mention in my post is that I loved the shot of Perry walking down the street and having the lights strung across the street turn on as he walked past.  

[Domestic Assassin]

41 minutes ago, Dani said:

8 hours ago, Jextella said:

Anyone know if Pete Strickland was in the original series?  I love the character.

 No. He’s an original character for this series. 

During the ATX Festival Perry Mason panel, the writers were talking about how they took several of the characters from Erle Stanley Gardner stories, including Pete Strickland and EB Jonathan. I don't know if they were from Perry Mason stories or from other ESG stories, or if the characters were similar or they just took the names, but still I like that they did that. I really like Pete and hope he sticks around if they make more seasons.

[Vella]

Much, much better than the pilot. Loved the strong introductions for Paul Drake and Sister Alice.  Really loved the back and forth in the Della/Perry/Pete/EB scene where we see so much of each character's personality come out.  I feel like EB is a good man and good lawyer, but that he's a wee bit in over his head and I get the sense that Perry realizes this too.

Loved Della getting more to do and the phone battle between Della/Perry at the restaurant.  Can't wait for Paul to join the mix. 

The scene when Emily got arrested and Della looks back? Oof, so much good stuff going on there. EB fully aware and quibbling with the DA, Perry quickly realizing what had been arranged and Della, looking back. for help or support and finding she's alone and just stares at Perry, grasping what's actually happened. Shock and anger and disappointment on her face but resolute to still support Emily.  Perry, ashamed, looks down. Just sublime.

I get the impression that Sister Alice is a medium of some kind. She seemed to read something off Emily the moment their hands touched when they first met and then after her sermon, she looked right at Perry. I really like the power vibe between her and her Mother.

[Hava]

I don't know why, but I was expecting Sister Alice to be a dark, cultish leader, but turns out she's not. I'm kind of disappointed. 

[AnimeMania]

1 hour ago, Hava said:

I don't know why, but I was expecting Sister Alice to be a dark, cultish leader, but turns out she's not. I'm kind of disappointed. 

I would suggest that you keep your eyes on her mother, something's just not right with that woman.

This is set in 1032? So I looked up Prohibition and it says January 17, 1920 – December 5, 1933. I was just curious since Perry is a drunk and the lawyers were openly (private club) drinking. Old Black guy with a shotgun seemed drunk. Hollywood premiere was openly serving cocktails. Chubby appeared drunk in public. Are they ignoring prohibition?

[UnknownK]

On 6/28/2020 at 11:27 PM, paigow said:

How much money was burnt? 100K would leave a lot more than a few partially burned bills...especially if there are so many $20s..

That is the worst staged suicide ever...Did George even have a typewriter? A shotgun blast to the head does not leave half the face undamaged.. 

I took it as being staged. The shotgun was full of buckshot and wasn't close enough or aimed directly at the head to blow it off.  That dead guy would have wounds being shot with a pistol and from falling 3 stories onto concrete steps that a shotgun blast would not cover (and that he would not have lived through, was there any blood around the bed and walls?). 

[WendyCR72]

31 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

I would suggest that you keep your eyes on her mother, something's just not right with that woman.

This is set in 1032? So I looked up Prohibition and it says January 17, 1920 – December 5, 1933. I was just curious since Perry is a drunk and the lawyers were openly (private club) drinking. Old Black guy with a shotgun seemed drunk. Hollywood premiere was openly serving cocktails. Chubby appeared drunk in public. Are they ignoring prohibition?

I'm guessing - as likely in real life - the well-to-do (and those involved with such, hence Perry) had a different set of rules where Prohibition was concerned.

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

This is set in 1032? So I looked up Prohibition and it says January 17, 1920 – December 5, 1933. I was just curious since Perry is a drunk and the lawyers were openly (private club) drinking. Old Black guy with a shotgun seemed drunk. Hollywood premiere was openly serving cocktails. Chubby appeared drunk in public. Are they ignoring prohibition?

I think there was some reference to prohibition in the last episode. It was illegal to make, distribute or sell alcohol but it wasn’t illegal to drink. Between bootleggers, speakeasy, and corrupt cops and officials it was pretty easy to find alcohol particularly for the rich. There was also an exemption for medicinal whiskey and sacramental wine. 

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, Hava said:

I don't know why, but I was expecting Sister Alice to be a dark, cultish leader, but turns out she's not. I'm kind of disappointed. 

I find Sister Alice much more intriguing than the usual Hollywood depiction of a snake oil-selling prophetess. I hope she does continue to develop into a talented pawn in her mother’s financial plan, but it seems she may have headaches which could turn out to be related to a brain tumor and/or epilepsy, which would be more of another tired old story. 

[cardigirl]

Okay, I loved this.  The scene in the office with Perry, Della, EB, and Pete was pure gold.  Perry saying "Fuller Brush man!" before he entered George's house, (even though it was pitch dark night) and all of the little character flourishes that are showing up in this second episode are wonderful. 

Paul Drake is super wonderful and I fear greatly for him. He's a smart black cop, which is going to ruffle feathers. 

I have no idea what is really going on with the kidnapping plot, and I think we've been given a lot of red herrings to confuse us, but that's okay, I like the characters enough to hang around and watch while trying to figure it out.  

It's fresh tv. No need to compare it to other things.  Let it stand on its own.  Plus, with all of the great actors in this, there's enough onscreen to watch to keep me happy. 

 

[AnimeMania]

1 hour ago, cardigirl said:

I have no idea what is really going on with the kidnapping plot, and I think we've been given a lot of red herrings to confuse us, but that's okay, I like the characters enough to hang around and watch while trying to figure it out.  

If you don't know and want to know, I posted my theory in the "Getting the Verdict Early: Spoiler (and book) talk" section it is the only post in there so you won't be too spoiled. The theory is based only on what has been shown in the episodes so far so it doesn't actually contain any real spoilers.

[teddysmom]

2 hours ago, cardigirl said:

It's fresh tv. No need to compare it to other things.  Let it stand on its own.  Plus, with all of the great actors in this, there's enough onscreen to watch to keep me happy. 

I agree. This is a totally new take on this character.  I am a huge fan of Matthew Rhys, so I could watch him do anything. No one plays tortured soul better. 

I loved Sister Alice calling out all the men "who I probably will never see here again". 

Arrest a woman at her child's funeral? That is some cold shit.  

[sistermagpie]

10 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Are they ignoring prohibition?

Only to the extent that everybody in America at the time ignored it, it seems.

[preeya]

I tried, but I'm out.

[Netfoot]

On 6/28/2020 at 11:56 PM, scrb said:

What are the war flashbacks suppose to reveal?

I believe it gave a reason for his dishonourable discharge: he killed his own men, albeit to save them from suffering in the face of an on-coming mustard gas attack.

On 6/28/2020 at 11:56 PM, scrb said:

Officer Drake had a more impressive debut than Sister Alice.

Could have sworn he was going to get killed at the end.

On 6/29/2020 at 12:59 PM, tennisgurl said:

...and sewing his eyes shut...

I thought the eyes were sewn open! I  don't know that it makes much difference, but...

One thing that struck me as strange: The coffin of the little child. Where I come from, virtually all children's coffins are white. Virtually without exception. Of course, I have to be careful saying this.....

[Cotypubby]

On 6/29/2020 at 3:58 PM, sistermagpie said:

Nope, I saw it and I did wonder if there was some connection even though it wasn't a turtle. Even if the turtle wasn't a hiding place maybe there was some connection.

The turtle and the alligator were both from the same place. Something Alligator Farm, which I am sure will become a relevant plot point eventually. 
 

I enjoyed the second episode much more than the first, I’m totally down for watching more now. Personally I don’t find the storylines at all confusing, maybe because I recognize almost all of the actors so I have no trouble keeping characters straight. 
 

The song Drake was listening to in his kitchen was from 1951 (🤔) so I’m wondering if it was a little nod to “LA Confidential,” which used that tune, and they figured no one would notice the error?

Speaking of “LA Confidential,” Lithgow’s constant use of the phrase “boyo” here keeps making me think of James Cromwell’s character. I hope that’s not a foreshadowing...