S04.E12: King Of Wishful Thinking

[OnceSane]

Quote

Avery spends some time with Ash's ex; Ed & Rose discuss their relationship; Erika opens up to Stephanie about her past; David listens to his heart, and Geoffrey & Varya look to the future.

Airs May 10, 2020.

[deirdra]

I hope Ash is not there when Avery meets his ex so we can get the real scoop.

[gingerella]

1 hour ago, deirdra said:

I hope Ash is not there when Avery meets his ex so we can get the real scoop.

Dude, you KNOW he’ll be hovering like a fly on fresh shit because he doesn’t want anymore talk about his house of cards. Hell, I wouldn’t be surprised if he rarely sees his son.

[blubld43]

18 hours ago, deirdra said:

I hope Ash is not there when Avery meets his ex so we can get the real scoop.

I'm actually shocked she's bothering, that scene last week would have been a deal breaker.

Edited May 5, 2020 by blubld43

[Mrs. Hanson]

57 minutes ago, blubld43 said:

I'm actually shocked she's bothering, that scene last week would have been a deal breaker.

100% agreed!

[Leilani]

Ash and Avery are exhausting.

[Leilani]

Stephanie and her clown friend also exhausting.

[mamadrama]

Just now, Leilani said:

Stephanie and her clown friend also exhausting.

All these fuckers are exhausting.

 

2 hours ago, blubld43 said:

I'm actually shocked she's bothering, that scene last week would have been a deal breaker.

As soon as I saw those crazy eyes it would've been a deal breaker for me. I know, I know, it's cocaine a medical issue, but they still freak me the hell out. 

[kendi]

This preview was a snooze fest. All Stephanie and Ash. Sian was welcoming and seems nice. Hope she's ready for Avery's interview!

[RealReality]

4 hours ago, blubld43 said:

I'm actually shocked she's bothering, that scene last week would have been a deal breaker.

If production forced ash to stay put you can bet they are behind Avery staying and meeting Ash's ex.  

Avery showed up full of doubt and questions even during their like 3 days of amazing sex.  At this point she has to be ready to rebook her flight back home, but production is pushing. 

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

You could see the light go out of Erica's eyes during that phone call.

Stephanie is a twunt.

Edited May 6, 2020 by Sir RaiderDuck OMS

[gavinmac]

2 hours ago, kendi said:

This preview was a snooze fest. All Stephanie and Ash. Sian was welcoming and seems nice. Hope she's ready for Avery's interview!

I find it odd that Sian, who knows Ash better than anyone is worried that Ash is getting himself into a bad situation with Avery. She should be telling Avery to run.

[gingerella]

5 hours ago, blubld43 said:

I'm actually shocked she's bothering, that scene last week would have been a deal breaker.

My guess I saw that the producers reminded Avery that she has to earn her air ticket home...

[magemaud]

So Avery was “selfish” because she wanted her own hotel room and some time apart from Ash? Add that to growing list of her shortcomings along with “heartless,” “hard” and ”hurts others.” 

[blubld43]

5 hours ago, magemaud said:

So Avery was “selfish” because she wanted her own hotel room and some time apart from Ash? Add that to growing list of her shortcomings along with “heartless,” “hard” and ”hurts others.” 

At this point, I agree with everyone saying she's still filming because she's contractually obligated.  And as we've all said before, surely Sian didn't plan on letting her son move to the U.S. anyway, so she had her own agenda.

Honestly if it turns out they got engaged at the end of this I will be truly shocked.  This man has serious issues IMO, and he's no young kid that is still maturing.  That meltdown looked both real and scary to me; if he was acting he's in the wrong business.

[Christina]

10 hours ago, kendi said:

This preview was a snooze fest. All Stephanie and Ash. Sian was welcoming and seems nice. Hope she's ready for Avery's interview!

The entire season is a snooze fest and predictable. I wish I had read this comment before wasting my time on it since I still have four episodes of Bosch to go.

[Kareem]

Can’t say there have too many WTG! moments this season but watching Rose telling disgusting and entitled Ed that she’s not sure how she feels about him after his lies and humiliating comments, and watching Avery calmly tell Ashhhh that she needs a moment (and boots) and a separate room to sort out his bs and defects was kind of satisfying.  It was interesting to me that neither of these guys seem at all aware of their issues nor their behavior. 
 

Not expecting that from Usman and the hag, not sure but hopeful about Varya and the felon.  Well played to “Lana” and “Williams” if there’s any truth at all to their depiction, no excuse for the two moronic phonies attached to them.  And Stephanie just blows, with Erika being deluded by the YouTubing turd.  
 

I’m actually looking forward to what more Rose has to say, what Ash’s wife has to say and Avery’s decision.  I’m secretly living for the backlash re both Ash the Ass and especially Ed the Pig.  Quarantine can do this to you.  

[blubld43]

1 hour ago, Christina said:

The entire season is a snooze fest and predictable. I wish I had read this comment before wasting my time on it since I still have four episodes of Bosch to go.

I would agree, but that complete meltdown from Ash was a surprise to me.  I had him figured for a smooth talking con artist; he is no smooth talker.

[mamadrama]

19 minutes ago, Kareem said:

 

I’m actually looking forward to what more Rose has to say, what Ash’s wife has to say and Avery’s decision.  I’m secretly living for the backlash re both Ash the Ass and especially Ed the Pig.  Quarantine can do this to you.  

You and me both!

I don't want to exaggerate here, but Ash's combative freak out felt like emotional abuse: goading, criticizing, dehumanizing, gaslighting, shaming... That shit's not entertaining to me. It made me very uncomfortable. 

Edited May 6, 2020 by mamadrama

[AZChristian]

Just now, blubld43 said:

I would agree, but that complete meltdown from Ash was a surprise to me.  I had him figured for a smooth talking con artist; he is no smooth talker.

I think he has about five phrases that he uses all the time with his online "clients," so his ability to be a smooth talker hasn't been challenged.

His "seminar" proved that he has NO real communication skills.  Couldn't relate to his audience, couldn't handle negative feedback or challenges to the truth he thought he was spouting, and couldn't even plagiarize a concept successfully.  

[mamadrama]

12 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

I think he has about five phrases that he uses all the time with his online "clients," so his ability to be a smooth talker hasn't been challenged.

His "seminar" proved that he has NO real communication skills.  Couldn't relate to his audience, couldn't handle negative feedback or challenges to the truth he thought he was spouting, and couldn't even plagiarize a concept successfully.  

Even if the seminar was a last-minute setup by the producers, I think his reactions were very real. The difficulty maintaining composure, inability to think on his feet, unable to accept criticism or answer reasonable questions-all of that looked legit to me.

[RealReality]

1 hour ago, Christina said:

The entire season is a snooze fest and predictable. I wish I had read this comment before wasting my time on it since I still have four episodes of Bosch to go.

Ha ha I binged watched Bosch this weekend.  Love that show, good storyline, great acting, jazzy tunes.  What more could you want?   

[RealReality]

4 minutes ago, mamadrama said:

Even if the seminar was a last-minute setup by the producers, I think his reactions were very real. The difficulty maintaining composure, inability to think on his feet, unable to accept criticism or answer reasonable questions-all of that looked legit to me.

I'd go further and say that it wasn't an ambush, he knew about the seminar.  

So besides reacting poorly, he really believes in this tired take on gender roles and that men have box brains and women have squiggle line brains. 

And beyond that, he had at least a day to prepare for the seminar.  He didn't pick up a pack of expo makers?  Not even the fantastic Mr. Scent ones? He didn't throw up a power point?  He really thinks he is smart enough and clever enough to "wing it," and I suspect this is how he navigates life.  

That is not the guy I'd want to depend on for half the rent each month.  I realize I only have a dumb squiggle brain, but unless a man looks like aladin, I'm not entertaining the concept of supporting him.  But I don't have any kids or dependents either. 

[AZChristian]

3 minutes ago, RealReality said:

So besides reacting poorly, he really believes in this tired take on gender roles and that men have box brains and women have squiggle line brains. 

I have actually seen - live - the guy whose presentation Ash plagiarized (badly).  The whole focus of the seminar was not at all demeaning to either sex.  It was a marriage seminar and was a humorous way to present "generalized" differences (emphasizing the strength of each gender's way of doing things).

To this day - over 20 years later - when we are trying to reach a compromise and normal communication isn't working, I might say something like, "Can you please close your 'nothing' drawer and listen to what I'm saying?"  Or he will say, "Can you please focus on one strand of spaghetti in your brain and not get sidetracked by all the other strands?"

We are the personification of those generalized stereotypes.  For that reason, the "different brains" visualization gives us a central point from which we can communicate.

But Ash's "communication skills" were so bad that the message HE tried to present came out totally differently.  Probably because it reflected HIS point of view that women were scatterbrained little emotional creatures who needed a man to make them feel like a woman.

[blubld43]

20 minutes ago, mamadrama said:

Even if the seminar was a last-minute setup by the producers, I think his reactions were very real. The difficulty maintaining composure, inability to think on his feet, unable to accept criticism or answer reasonable questions-all of that looked legit to me.

Could not agree more.  It had a bad vibe.

David did too, IMO.  His absolute refusal to hear anything contradicting his fantasy, his sudden anger, that felt real to me as well.  I know Lana isn't real, as in, the woman in the photo probably has no idea who he is, there is no relationship.  But like others, I wonder, what if he confronted the woman in the picture, and insisted they are in fact, a couple?  Probably never happen, but he freaked me out a little.

[magemaud]

4 hours ago, AZChristian said:

His "seminar" proved that he has NO real communication skills.  Couldn't relate to his audience, couldn't handle negative feedback or challenges to the truth he thought he was spouting, and couldn't even plagiarize a concept successfully.  

He doesn't even have basic "back and forth" conversation skills which involve listening as well as speaking. 

[magemaud]

I forget, was the last "Before..." Tell All filmed with the Americans in the studio sitting by TV monitors? Didn't some of them also have a friend or parent with them in the studio? Will David and Yolanda be sitting by blank TV screens? 

Was the TA already filmed before quarantine? If not, how will this play out?

Edited May 6, 2020 by magemaud

[Ucross]

15 hours ago, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

Stephanie is a twunt.

Well said! Erica is a very nice, generous, and creative person. I personally love her look -- the avocado earrings with the avocado-print dress -- slay me! Why are they calling each other "girlfriends" and "partners" and "anything-sexual" when they haven't had sex?

[blubld43]

25 minutes ago, Ucross said:

Well said! Erica is a very nice, generous, and creative person. I personally love her look -- the avocado earrings with the avocado-print dress -- slay me! Why are they calling each other "girlfriends" and "partners" and "anything-sexual" when they haven't had sex?

I find Erica delightful as well, she deserved better than a wanna be influencer, especially one who seems to be heterosexual.  Sis needs to put her boobs away, gather her medicines, and go home.  She mislead her in the worst way, IMO.

[Mrs. Hanson]

5 hours ago, mamadrama said:

I don't want to exaggerate here, but Ash's combative freak out felt like emotional abuse: goading, criticizing, dehumanizing, gaslighting, shaming... That shit's not entertaining to me. It made me very uncomfortable. 

I found it to be uncomfortable as well.  I mean, did you see my post where I listed all the things he said to her?  Just over and over and over!  I was like, dude, she did not kick your puppies or drown your kittens - she asked you some calm, straightforward and needed questions and you not only LOST! YOUR! SHIT! you flipped and tried to blame her and gaslight her.  Then in the sneak peek she says "I want my alone time in my own room."  Rather than say, okay I support you and want to be comfortable....nope.  "What?  Fine. FINE.  I thought we were supposed to work through problems together, but...whatever."   I am paraphrasing a bit but that was the meat of it.....go away Ash.  Go sleep with vulnerable women who blush when you say "Wow!  Your hair and makeup is on point!"

@mamadrama, you are not exaggerating here at all.  It was very troubling.  Like a meme i saw:  Ash thinks women are too emotional to be rational but Ash gets emotional when questioned by a rational woman.

[PamelaMaeSnap]

I'm hoping Erica lands on Project Runway. I love her style. 

[Kangatush]

23 hours ago, mamadrama said:

All these fuckers are exhausting.

 

As soon as I saw those crazy eyes it would've been a deal breaker for me. I know, I know, it's cocaine a medical issue, but they still freak me the hell out. 

He says it's Grave's Disease.  Pro Tip:  I had Grave's Disease/Hyperthyroidism.  My doctor made it a huge priority to treat it quickly.  We killed my thyroid with radiation.  I wasn't left to sit around for months while my body went crazy, like Ash is apparently doing.  

Also, the reason he made my face punching fist twitchy is that he berated Avery for making a calm, rational request for space, including name calling, when he was all set to storm out of the AirBNB.  He really is the shittiest relationship coach I can imagine.  I'd rather listen to Jesse, and you know that's saying A LOT.

[Mrs. Hanson]

On 5/6/2020 at 10:07 AM, blubld43 said:

David did too, IMO.  His absolute refusal to hear anything contradicting his fantasy, his sudden anger, that felt real to me as well. 

I agree: "That is a lie."  "That is a lie."  David, why would a private eye lie to you?  What is in it for him?  Plus his comment on "She is gonna see me whether she likes it or not" gave off a really bad stalker feel.

Edited May 11, 2020 by Mrs. Hanson

[deirdra]

The first time I saw Ash I said - why isn't he taking medication for his hyperthyroidism?  Apparently, it is not always a metabolic disorder, anabolic steroids can cause it. With his matchstick legs and over-developed biceps & upper body, that may be the cause.  It could also explain his 'roid rage-like reactions.

Edited May 7, 2020 by deirdra

[Ucross]

6 hours ago, blubld43 said:

Sis needs to put her boobs away, gather her medicines, and go home.

Medi-CAYYYYY-shunnnns. Fixed it for ya.

[Ucross]

On 5/5/2020 at 7:01 PM, Leilani said:

Ash and Avery are exhausting.

Avery is not much better than Ash. She doesn't even know her "boyfriend" she's "meeting for the first time," then insists he conform to her rigid expectations in a very unpleasant way. Honey bunch, if you're so darn emotionally healthy, why do you have two kids out of wedlock and Ash has one with a woman with whom he's friendly? He might be reacting this way because he's trapped for a couple weeks with this controlling Barbie.

[Frozendiva]

This week's Reality Tea show discussion apparently has some 'tea' about the upcoming tell-all. If interested, you can visit the site.

[mamadrama]

3 hours ago, Kangatush said:

He says it's Grave's Disease.  Pro Tip:  I had Grave's Disease/Hyperthyroidism.  My doctor made it a huge priority to treat it quickly.  We killed my thyroid with radiation.  I wasn't left to sit around for months while my body went crazy, like Ash is apparently doing.  

Also, the reason he made my face punching fist twitchy is that he berated Avery for making a calm, rational request for space, including name calling, when he was all set to storm out of the AirBNB.  He really is the shittiest relationship coach I can imagine.  I'd rather listen to Jesse, and you know that's saying A LOT.

He only said it was Graves after people on Instagram suggested it. At first he said he'd never heard of that but then after many people insisted he probably had it he started going along with them. Per the original discussion it didn't sound like he'd ever been officially diagnosed.

[mamadrama]

2 hours ago, Ucross said:

Avery is not much better than Ash. She doesn't even know her "boyfriend" she's "meeting for the first time," then insists he conform to her rigid expectations in a very unpleasant way. Honey bunch, if you're so darn emotionally healthy, why do you have two kids out of wedlock and Ash has one with a woman with whom he's friendly? He might be reacting this way because he's trapped for a couple weeks with this controlling Barbie.

As a bastard myself who had one of my own, I think having a child "out of wedlock" is the least of their issues. And him being friendly with his baby mama is one of his few positive attributes.

[RealReality]

4 hours ago, Kangatush said:

He says it's Grave's Disease.  Pro Tip:  I had Grave's Disease/Hyperthyroidism.  My doctor made it a huge priority to treat it quickly.  We killed my thyroid with radiation.  I wasn't left to sit around for months while my body went crazy, like Ash is apparently doing.  

Also, the reason he made my face punching fist twitchy is that he berated Avery for making a calm, rational request for space, including name calling, when he was all set to storm out of the AirBNB.  He really is the shittiest relationship coach I can imagine.  I'd rather listen to Jesse, and you know that's saying A LOT.

I suspect ash is treating with essential oils. 

[DEL901]

9 hours ago, Mrs. Hanson said:

I agree: "That is a lie."  "That is a lie."  Davis, why would a private eye lie to you?  What is in it for him?  Plus his comment on "She is o=gonna see me whether she likes it or not" gave off a really bad stalker feel.

I agree.  And if the PI was going to lie, he would have made up a lie that would have let the investigation continue (e.g. I have a clue to her whereabouts, send more money) not one that would end it.  

[blubld43]

7 hours ago, mamadrama said:

As a bastard myself who had one of my own, I think having a child "out of wedlock" is the least of their issues. And him being friendly with his baby mama is one of his few positive attributes.

And we won't know their true relationship anyway.  He asked her if she'd make nice on television, IMO, and for whatever reason she agreed.

I don't go along with Avery-is-controlling.  She probably should have had these conversations before flying to Australia though, what do these people talk about?  Surely she didn't "risk everything" ( eyes rolling) on the basis of Ash's typical canned chat.  

[Mrs. Hanson]

10 hours ago, Ucross said:

Avery is not much better than Ash. She doesn't even know her "boyfriend" she's "meeting for the first time," then insists he conform to her rigid expectations in a very unpleasant way. Honey bunch, if you're so darn emotionally healthy, why do you have two kids out of wedlock and Ash has one with a woman with whom he's friendly? He might be reacting this way because he's trapped for a couple weeks with this controlling Barbie.

Bolding mine:  With all due respect, that is 100% speculation. 

I have to ask, in a way that is NOT meant to be argumentative, why does Avery get criticized for meeting her "boyfriend for the first time" but not Ash for meeting her?  It sounds, to me, like blaming the female for life choices that the male did as well.

As for having two kids out wedlock, it is 2020, who gives?  I agree with @mamadrama, that is one of his few attributes, that he gets along with the mother of his child.

I am still just in awe that a relationship coach acts this way:  badgering with below the belt (and seemingly untrue) things towards her, packing and leaving (which seems to be a thing.)  Now I can 100% understand if he said, "Look, we both need some time, let's be apart for a bit" and calmy left.  But man, he was tossing that stuff together and he was OUTTA THERE.  And that was the reaction to that situation.  Suppose in real life Avery wrecks the car?  Someone overdrafts a check?  Crickey!!!!

[mamadrama]

7 hours ago, RealReality said:

I suspect ash is treating with essential oils. 

Or essential white powder.

[Kyanight]

7 hours ago, RealReality said:

I suspect ash is treating with essential oils. 

And candles.

[Kyanight]

38 minutes ago, Mrs. Hanson said:

I am still just in awe that a relationship coach acts this way:  badgering with below the belt (and seemingly untrue) things towards her, packing and leaving (which seems to be a thing.)  Now I can 100% understand if he said, "Look, we both need some time, let's be apart for a bit" and calmy left.  But man, he was tossing that stuff together and he was OUTTA THERE.  And that was the reaction to that situation. 

And he was definitely going to just leave Avery sitting there on that rock wall until the producer ran up and said "What are you doing??"   You could see him turn and look at Avery and the wheels were turning in his head and he realized that he was being filmed for National TV and he wasn't going to look so darned sensitive and understanding to the viewers if he sprayed gravel in her face from his retreating tires.   If the camera crew had NOT been there (and this wasn't staged for drama or something) Avery would have been left somewhere in a foreign country with no way to get back to the B&B or hotel or wherever it was they were staying at that time.   Was she supposed to hike back?  Thumb a ride? Ash has issues way worse than Avery's, in my opinion.

[Mrs. Hanson]

3 hours ago, DEL901 said:

I agree.  And if the PI was going to lie, he would have made up a lie that would have let the investigation continue (e.g. I have a clue to her whereabouts, send more money) not one that would end it.  

Exactly!  He very easily could have said, "Look I think I may have found her but I need $2000 more to follow the lead."  But he didn't.  He ended right then and there.  Oy David.

[AZChristian]

4 minutes ago, Mrs. Hanson said:

Exactly!  He very easily could have said, "Look I think I may have found her but I need $2000 more to follow the lead."  But he didn't.  He ended right then and there.  Oy David.

I think someone on this board said, "David would have had to hire a PI to find the PI."

[mamadrama]

1 hour ago, Mrs. Hanson said:

Bolding mine:  With all due respect, that is 100% speculation. 

I have to ask, in a way that is NOT meant to be argumentative, why does Avery get criticized for meeting her "boyfriend for the first time" but not Ash for meeting her?  It sounds, to me, like blaming the female for life choices that the male did as well.

As for having two kids out wedlock, it is 2020, who gives?  I agree with @mamadrama, that is one of his few attributes, that he gets along with the mother of his child.

I am still just in awe that a relationship coach acts this way:  badgering with below the belt (and seemingly untrue) things towards her, packing and leaving (which seems to be a thing.)  Now I can 100% understand if he said, "Look, we both need some time, let's be apart for a bit" and calmy left.  But man, he was tossing that stuff together and he was OUTTA THERE.  And that was the reaction to that situation.  Suppose in real life Avery wrecks the car?  Someone overdrafts a check?  Crickey!!!!

I particularly liked how he packed his stuff and was leaving, but when SHE requested her own hotel room he threw a hissy.

[AZChristian]

2 minutes ago, mamadrama said:

I particularly liked how he packed his stuff and was leaving, but when SHE requested her own hotel room he threw a hissy.

Why take luggage, Ash?  Just pack your stuff in your "nothing" box.