S05.E10: Something Unforgiveable

[ShadowFacts]

10 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

Seems like she's possibly transferred a bit of that to Howard, particularly when he pushed the Chuck button.   She realizes that Chuck wasn't always right or truthful about Jimmy and that he was more than willing to let his unworthy little brother take care of him for years while sandbagging and disrespecting him into thinking Chuck was doing Jimmy the favor and that Chuck loved him.   She knows Howard knew how awfully Chuck was treating Jimmy, actively participating in hiding it from Jimmy -- and now he wants to overlook all of that and say that Chuck's viewpoint was right?  She is the only person who has any real idea what Chuck and his death truly did to Jimmy.   Now Howard is simply another entitled brat who has because it was handed to him.

There's plenty of reason for Kim to harbor resentment of Howard.  That's not an issue for me.  For her to immediately, zero to 60 as somebody aptly phrased it, traumatized or not from Lalo's visit, have a plan to take Howard down is what I am not buying.  It wasn't long ago at all that she was really displeased with Jimmy for pulling off his fake invocation of Chuck's memory at the bar reinstatement.  She was apparently impressed with Jimmy turning his Chuck grief into something positive only to be pissed that she fell for his con about it.  So now she has a close encounter with the cartel, a chance encounter with Howard, and bam! she's needing to work her amazing skill set in a take down of Howard.  It all doesn't cohere for me.

 

1 minute ago, shapeshifter said:

To me, the episode title, "Something Unforgiveable," seems to primarily describe the slaughtered woman, then Kim's feelings about Howard's remarks about Jimmy, and lastly Lalo's opinion of what went down (as well as Gus's reasons for instigating it). 
Is that about right? 

For me, more about Nacho's betrayal of Lalo and its fallout, and Kim's future plans, if she carries them out.

[ByTor]

5 minutes ago, ahmerali said:

7 minutes ago, ByTor said:

Except it wouldn't make sense for Saul to think Lalo sent someone to kidnap him if he knows he's dead.

 

See my note. The Cousins have seen Saul and know who he is. He knows how unpredictable and loco Lalo, Tuco, and the entire family can be. Even if Lalo were dead and Jimmy knows that, there's always that chance that someone is going to come looking for him.

Yes, I saw your note, and I disagree with it.  If he knows Lalo is dead, he wouldn't think Lalo would be the one coming after him.  Yes, there's always a chance someone would be coming after him, but that someone couldn't be Lalo.  Despite the writing taking liberties with things such as Kaylee's age, I don't see them being that sloppy.

9 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

I don't think it was poor acting. I think Kim WAS forcing out a laugh to show Howard that she didn't care about these so-called terrible things Jimmy did to Howard. 

Except she genuinely didn't care.

[Ohwell]

The most annoying thing about Kim is her sense of self-righteousness about everything she does.  She can do pro bono work without the excuse of "the good will excuse the bad."  She doesn't need to do anything bad, just start the damn pro bono work.  I don't buy any justifications for her behavior, such as her upbringing, or having to work with/for egotistical, intimidating, "bad" men.  Giselle was a criminal.  Kim is a criminal. 

At least the bad guys on this show know they're bad guys and they make no excuses.

[ByTor]

31 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

She came to loathe Kevin from MV and everything he stood for.  He wants what he wants and everyone who stands in the way of his whims is irrelevant. 

I hate that this is Kim's perception of Kevin.  He's trying to build up his business on a piece of land that he owns, a piece of land that the filthy old man knows he's leasing.  I found him to be the villain of that story, not Kevin, and I can't believe Kim wouldn't be able to see that.

[Irlandesa]

37 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

 She realizes that Chuck wasn't always right or truthful about Jimmy and that he was more than willing to let his unworthy little brother take care of him for years while sandbagging and disrespecting him into thinking Chuck was doing Jimmy the favor and that Chuck loved him.   She knows Howard knew how awfully Chuck was treating Jimmy, actively participating in hiding it from Jimmy -- and now he wants to overlook all of that and say that Chuck's viewpoint was right?

I also wonder if part of this is absolute terror, fear and denial that maybe Chuck was right. She learned that Jimmy went through a major ordeal and calmly tells him not to do it again.  But deep down, she must know that he will. The whole time she's been with him, the whole time she's been claiming Chuck was "wrong" about him, he has progressively done things that got more and more unethical--and now dangerous. She is disappointed before throwing herself into a vigorous defense of him.

And nobody, not Howard and not even Jimmy, is going to dissuade her from her narrative that Chuck was wrong about Jimmy. 

I get that she sees Kevin and Howard as just being handed things.  And yeah, they were born on third base. But we've seen Howard struggle before rebuilding things.  We also saw he was willing to risk a lot to extricate himself from Chuck. 

16 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

Can someone remind me why Howard put Kim in document review? 

Kim went to bat for Jimmy with Howard and convinced him Chuck was wrong about Jimmy's appropriateness for an upscale law firm.  Because Howard trusts Kim's opinion, he, in turn, vouched for Jimmy with Cliff who offered him a job.  Jimmy ended up going against the wishes of the firm and created the low rent ad without telling anyone (and ultimately doing all sort of sabotage to get out of that job).  Jimmy's actions made Howard look foolish for recommending him and because the recommendation was done largely because of how much Howard trusted Kim--and she never defended herself that Jimmy didn't tell her the truth either--he put her in doc review as part of a disciplinary process.

The thing is, she understood why she was put there.  She blew a lot of political capital when Jimmy did what he did.  What angered her was that she thought she could control how she got out of it...i.e. by bagging a big client.

Edited April 21, 2020 by Irlandesa

[Tikichick]

15 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

There's plenty of reason for Kim to harbor resentment of Howard.  That's not an issue for me.  For her to immediately, zero to 60 as somebody aptly phrased it, traumatized or not from Lalo's visit, have a plan to take Howard down is what I am not buying.  It wasn't long ago at all that she was really displeased with Jimmy for pulling off his fake invocation of Chuck's memory at the bar reinstatement.  She was apparently impressed with Jimmy turning his Chuck grief into something positive only to be pissed that she fell for his con about it.  So now she has a close encounter with the cartel, a chance encounter with Howard, and bam! she's needing to work her amazing skill set in a take down of Howard.  It all doesn't cohere for me.

 

For me, more about Nacho's betrayal of Lalo and its fallout, and Kim's future plans, if she carries them out.

Like I said, for me it works in the context of Kim snapping in response to her fear that Jimmy had died in the desert, followed quickly by immense relief when he came home, the relief flying out the window when she found his coffee mug -- and then being terrorized in her living room.

I don't think she makes the incredible leap to suggest going after Howard without those triggering events.  I think her entire idea is the product of a mind desperately flailing around to deflect from what she cannot think about straight on and cannot manage to dispel.  

[Tikichick]

12 minutes ago, ByTor said:

I hate that this is Kim's perception of Kevin.  He's trying to build up his business on a piece of land that he owns, a piece of land that the filthy old man knows he's leasing.  I found him to be the villain of that story, not Kevin, and I can't believe Kim wouldn't be able to see that.

I think what Kim hates is that Kevin has other options entirely within his grasp to give him equal results, yet he is fixated on one with no regard to the thought that it has significant consequences for other peoples' lives.   Yes, the other residents decided to get while the going was good because they felt they couldn't fight city hall, but we don't know that it didn't impact them negatively all the same. 

Kevin has more than one option to achieve equal results, all positive for him.  The "filthy old man" only has the one option to live his life where and how he chooses.   A different site wouldn't impact Kevin's life at all. 

[Eulipian 5k]

14 hours ago, MrWhyt said:

gunmen come to Lalo's house, kill everyone and Nacho disappears?

Mike & Gus were discussing how difficult it was to contact Nacho in Mexico; so they didn't tell him the hit was on. When Nacho got the call they told him to be gone by 3:00, not much else. Why were they waiting for Nacho to let them in? Did Nacho know before he & Lalo drove to Mexico?

[PeterPirate]

11 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

Like I said, for me it works in the context of Kim snapping in response to her fear that Jimmy had died in the desert, followed quickly by immense relief when he came home, the relief flying out the window when she found his coffee mug -- and then being terrorized in her living room.

I don't think she makes the incredible leap to suggest going after Howard without those triggering events.  I think her entire idea is the product of a mind desperately flailing around to deflect from what she cannot think about straight on and cannot manage to dispel.  

20 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

I also wonder if part of this is absolute terror, fear and denial that maybe Chuck was right. She learned that Jimmy went through a major ordeal and calmly tells him not to do it again.  But deep down, she must know that he will. The whole time she's been with him, the whole time she's been claiming Chuck was "wrong" about him, he has progressively done things that got more and more unethical--and now dangerous. She is disappointed before throwing herself into a vigorous defense of him.

I think we all agree that what Kim is doing "doesn't make sense".  Some of us are just more ready to accept that she has "snapped" and moved into the realm of irrationality.  

And Chuck, like the Raven, still is sitting, still is sitting, perched upon that bust of Pallas above the chamber door into Kim's psyche.

Edited April 21, 2020 by PeterPirate

[MrWhyt]

1 minute ago, Eulipian 5k said:

When Nacho got the call they told him to be gone by 3:00, not much else. Why were they waiting for Nacho to let them in?

the call mentioned the back gate. I suspect that in the absence of an inside man the gunmen would enter in a less stealthy manner.

Quote

Did Nacho know before he & Lalo drove to Mexico?

As Mike said, Nacho can figure out whats going to happen when he gets a mysterious call telling him to open the back gate late at night.

[Armchair Critic]

41 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

2 hours ago, Armchair Critic said:

Kim with no ponytail curl = Evil Kim?

It turns out the ponytail was holding all of her evil at bay, and when she started wearing her hair down, all of the evil came falling out! 

Maybe the ponytail will finally be what brings down Lalo? He clearly cannot be killed by conventional weaponry and tactics! 

I can see it now, the next new Vince Gilligan series will be Breaking Bad 2: Ponytail on the Loose

[Snewtsie]

10 hours ago, qtpye said:

Some good insight about Kim.

Thank you for posting this.  It's really great insight!  And also just great to watch over so many key moments.

[Bannon]

33 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

The most annoying thing about Kim is her sense of self-righteousness about everything she does.  She can do pro bono work without the excuse of "the good will excuse the bad."  She doesn't need to do anything bad, just start the damn pro bono work.  I don't buy any justifications for her behavior, such as her upbringing, or having to work with/for egotistical, intimidating, "bad" men.  Giselle was a criminal.  Kim is a criminal. 

At least the bad guys on this show know they're bad guys and they make no excuses.

Who said anything about "justifications"? When human beings, including criminals, engage in behavior, including criminal behavior, they have reasons for doing so. Sometimes the reasons are conscious, sometimes unconscious, usually a mix. None of it need entail a justification; but the reasons why people engage in the behavior they do can be quite interesting.

[ByTor]

28 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

Kevin has more than one option to achieve equal results, all positive for him.  The "filthy old man" only has the one option to live his life where and how he chooses.

He had two options, the other being to take the money and relocate.

29 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

the other residents decided to get while the going was good because they felt they couldn't fight city hall, but we don't know that it didn't impact them negatively all the same. 

Not Kevin's problem, he did nothing legally or morally wrong, they were leasing land that they knew could be taken back by the owner.

[Bannon]

15 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

I think we all agree that what Kim is doing "doesn't make sense".  Some of us are just more ready to accept that she has "snapped" and moved into the realm of irrationality.  

And Chuck, like the Raven, still is sitting, still is sitting, perched upon that bust of Pallas above the chamber door into Kim's psyche.

I do see a possible  parallel between the effect of Jimmy's experience of his old Chicago con artist buddy suffering a heart attack, combined with his gaining knowledge of Chuck's betrayal, and what Kim has gone through in the last few episodes. Kim knew that being murdered by a violently powerful man was within seconds of happening. She then runs into another powerful man who tried to bury her professionally, for petty, egocentric, reasons. Who then insults her. In both Jimmy's and Kim's cases, we have characters having terrifying or unsettling brushes with imminent mortality, while also experiencing profound betrayal or harm from people they know well. In Jimmy it produced a rejection of ever sticking strictly to the rules again, like he did in the mailroom for 6 uears. Might it not produce a similar reaction in Kim, especially if she had a formative abusive experience at the hands of a powerful man?

[Bannon]

42 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

Like I said, for me it works in the context of Kim snapping in response to her fear that Jimmy had died in the desert, followed quickly by immense relief when he came home, the relief flying out the window when she found his coffee mug -- and then being terrorized in her living room.

I don't think she makes the incredible leap to suggest going after Howard without those triggering events.  I think her entire idea is the product of a mind desperately flailing around to deflect from what she cannot think about straight on and cannot manage to dispel.  

Ah, I see we are on the same page. I think this analysis has a lot to consider.

[QualityTVwatchj]

3 hours ago, Ohwell said:

I don't have much to add except to say that I was very disappointed and disgusted in how this finale went down.  I'm not even sure I'll be that excited when the final season comes, and gawd knows whenever that will be. 

This is what I hope will happen.

• Jimmy leaves Kim.
• Kim accidentally gets killed trying to pull a Giselle on Howard.  Howard is ok.
• Nacho and his father survive.x
• Lalo gets killed (even though I think he's crazy sexy).
• I never have to see Don Eladio's creepy face again.

 

Lalo is very sexy , the man looks great in jeans ! Tense, entertaining episode, felt my claustrophobia in that tunnel scene, yikes. Kim has become tedious this season, hope she doesn't do that to Howard. 

Looking forward to how Lalo/Gus/Nacho storyline plays out. 

[Eulipian 5k]

10 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Might it not produce a similar reaction in Kim, especially if she had a formative abusive experience at the hands of a powerful man?

I assume this is not a reference to Howard. Because a boss giving out a crappy, (but not dangerous), task to an underling is not abusive.

It's not like she was demoted from partner to doc review. We could see that Chuck called the shots at HHM, I'm sure someone as astute as Kim, should  figure out why the owner/partner's brother wasn't being handed a partnership. Has she shown any animosity towards Chuck that it lingers so long after they all left HHM? (Arguments at trial not withstanding)

[GustavMahler]

11 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

But Lalo is not part of the swimming pool massacre (in BB), right?  So he might be dead by that time, in some way. 

ITA that this was a totally unsatisfactory season finale cliff-hanger, particularly when there are years between seasons.  As a mid-season cliff-hanger, when you know the show is coming back in 2-3 months, it would be OK. 

 

Actually I found the Season finale cliff-hanger extremely satisfactory for the exact same reason you cited. Because it will take years for the finale season to appear, this rather ho-hum cliff hanger allows me to move on and forget about this series until I see it pop up on AMC again. Having zero anticipation for the return of a series is a good thing...

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, chick binewski said:

 

I do think Seehorn's performance in the season finale helped sell me on the fact this version of Kim was inevitable and we should have seen it coming (even if the writers weren't sure until mid-season 5). Her reaction when Jimmy challenged her ability to go lower was pretty chilling.

I agree that there are clearly triggers for Kim, specifically male authority - and I think that's a great thing to explore in such a male-centric show. Kim has been devolving by following the least traditionally authoratative but most destructive guy for years. And have we ever seen that ponytail more limp?

I actually liked Lalo's story this ep and am a bit fixated on the choice to close with his scene instead of Jimmy & Kim.

 

36 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Who said anything about "justifications"? When human beings, including criminals, engage in behavior, including criminal behavior, they have reasons for doing so. Sometimes the reasons are conscious, sometimes unconscious, usually a mix. None of it need entail a justification; but the reasons why people engage in the behavior they do can be quite interesting.

 

26 minutes ago, ByTor said:

He had two options, the other being to take the money and relocate.

Not Kevin's problem, he did nothing legally or morally wrong, they were leasing land that they knew could be taken back by the owner.

 

40 minutes ago, Snewtsie said:

Thank you for posting this.  It's really great insight!  And also just great to watch over so many key moments.

You’re welcome...glad you enjoyed it.

In the video they make a good points about how characters have great strengths that become weaknesses through ego in both BB and Better Call Saul.

They have Rhea talk about how Kim has a healthy ego which has served her well. Her confidence had helped her rise out of poverty to become a successful woman. However, a healthy ego unchecked can become a monster.

Rhea also says that she thinks Jimmy actually has the more traditionally female role in the relationship where Kim is inhabiting the more masculine characteristics.

 

[Adiba]

14 minutes ago, QualityTVwatchj said:

Lalo is very sexy , the man looks great in jeans ! Tense, entertaining episode, felt my claustrophobia in that tunnel scene, yikes. Kim has become tedious this season, hope she doesn't do that to Howard. 

Looking forward to how Lalo/Gus/Nacho storyline plays out. 

 

43 minutes ago, ByTor said:

He had two options, the other being to take the money and relocate.

Not Kevin's problem, he did nothing legally or morally wrong, they were leasing land that they knew could be taken back by the owner.

Also looking forward to the Lalo/Gus/Nacho storyline next season. As cartoonish as Lalo's escape from the hitmen was (I knew as soon as he grabbed that frying pan full of hot liquor that he was going to survive)--I enjoyed the scene because then next season we still have someone up against Gus (other than just Hector). Lalo is a great counterpoint to Gus, imo.

@ByTor--I agree, the cranky old man had the option to relocate--and it didn't need to be far away from the area. I don't know how old the character was supposed to be, but isn't Barry Corbin in his 80's? The guy may have had to move in with a relative or to an assisted living facility eventually anyway. 

Edited April 21, 2020 by Adiba
typo, more info

[Ellaria]

58 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

I think we all agree that what Kim is doing "doesn't make sense".  Some of us are just more ready to accept that she has "snapped" and moved into the realm of irrationality.  

Well said! Paraphrasing some comments upthread: she went from zero to 60 in record time. The path itself may be believable but not necessarily the time frame. In a universe that has always excelled in bringing us slowly along a character's journey, Kim's transition seems abrupt.

5 minutes ago, QualityTVwatchj said:

Lalo is very sexy , the man looks great in jeans ! Tense, entertaining episode, felt my claustrophobia in that tunnel scene, yikes. Kim has become tedious this season, hope she doesn't do that to Howard. 

Looking forward to how Lalo/Gus/Nacho storyline plays out. 

I loathe the character of Lalo but Tony Dalton is excellent in that role. He has a foreboding presence that is evident in smaller moves, like the glance at the decanter and glasses. That communicated exactly what we needed to know.

I'm not looking forward to the Lalo/Gus/Nacho storyline because I fear the worst for Nacho. As best as we can tell, he is alone somewhere around Chihuahua. Unless he finds the car/transportation that assassins were using, he may be wandering in the desert without reliable cell service...and Lalo is coming after him. My guess is that there is something or someone out there to help him.

[Bannon]

22 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

I assume this is not a reference to Howard. Because a boss giving out a crappy, (but not dangerous), task to an underling is not abusive.

It's not like she was demoted from partner to doc review. We could see that Chuck called the shots at HHM, I'm sure someone as astute as Kim, should  figure out why the owner/partner's brother wasn't being handed a partnership. Has she shown any animosity towards Chuck that it lingers so long after they all left HHM? (Arguments at trial not withstanding)

No,  I was referring to her father, and perhaps not so much being abusive to Kim, but perhaps witnessing him abuse her alcoholic mother.

[mrspidey]

14 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

I mean seriously, right? What did Howard ever do to her to make her want to destroy him? 

Remember when he put her in the "doghouse" for like a thousand years? And how he didn't even let her out after she got him Mesa Verde? Kim sure does. 

Edited April 21, 2020 by mrspidey

[Starchild]

I began this episode worrying that something bad would happen to Kim.

I finished it hoping that it would.

[BC4ME]

Most of the time, the penultimate episode of the season in BB seemed the most compelling, so I was ready for this episode to not feel like episode 5.09 did. However, I was not expecting Kim to break bad worse than Jimmy/Saul. I was a little shocked at that. I'm holding out that she was just trying to shock Jimmy but probably not.

When Lalo was up at 3AM seemingly waiting, I suspected that he was the one who made the call to Nacho. Or had it made. I actually suspected that when Nacho got the call. Further scenes proved me wrong, but I was not very happy with the whole Lalo escape. I was trying to remember a situation in BB where the not Walt or Jesse bad guys had a miraculous escape and can't. Not that anything Lalo did was that miraculous. It seemed more like those guys Gus thought were impeccable were in fact peccable (lol). At any rate, it was disappointing. IDK how Nacho thought he was going emerge from this blameless even if it had worked. But now things look pretty grim for him. 

I feel upset over how long it might take for the final season.

[Blakeston]

2 hours ago, peeayebee said:

I don't see anything he has done that I'd call superhuman. In last night's ep, he was lucky to see one of the hitmen in the window, so he pulled Ciro's body in front of him to take the bullet. Then he smartly grabbed the pan with hot oil to throw it in the face of another hitman. He escaped thru the tunnel then returned to ambush the rest.

Gus's "best guys" seemed to have the aim of stormtroopers. I could buy Lalo taking out one heavily-armed assassin with just some boiling liquid - but not two heavily-armed assassins coming at him at the same time. That's what took it into cartoon territory for me.

2 hours ago, ByTor said:

I hate that this is Kim's perception of Kevin.  He's trying to build up his business on a piece of land that he owns, a piece of land that the filthy old man knows he's leasing.  I found him to be the villain of that story, not Kevin, and I can't believe Kim wouldn't be able to see that.

I don't think Kim ever believed that the old curmudgeon was in the right. She called him out on his hypocrisy, and pointed out exactly why his position was ridiculous.

What seemed to change her mind was that he accused her of working for "the man." She couldn't stand the thought of that being true - even though in this case "the man" had the law on his side, and the "little guy" was an obnoxious jerk with no claim to the land.

Edited April 21, 2020 by Blakeston

[Adiba]

50 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Well said! Paraphrasing some comments upthread: she went from zero to 60 in record time. The path itself may be believable but not necessarily the time frame. In a universe that has always excelled in bringing us slowly along a character's journey, Kim's transition seems abrupt.

I loathe the character of Lalo but Tony Dalton is excellent in that role. He has a foreboding presence that is evident in smaller moves, like the glance at the decanter and glasses. That communicated exactly what we needed to know.

I'm not looking forward to the Lalo/Gus/Nacho storyline because I fear the worst for Nacho. As best as we can tell, he is alone somewhere around Chihuahua. Unless he finds the car/transportation that assassins were using, he may be wandering in the desert without reliable cell service...and Lalo is coming after him. My guess is that there is something or someone out there to help him.

Re: bolded--That is why I am looking forward to it--while not liking Nacho as a human being.

The scene between Nacho and Lalo when they're having a drink by the fire pit invoked memories of the fabulous "strudel scene" between Landa and Shoshanna in Inglorious Basterds. ymmv

Edited April 21, 2020 by Adiba

[teddysmom]

2 hours ago, ByTor said:

I hate that this is Kim's perception of Kevin.  He's trying to build up his business on a piece of land that he owns, a piece of land that the filthy old man knows he's leasing.  I found him to be the villain of that story, not Kevin, and I can't believe Kim wouldn't be able to see that.

I work in Real Estate development and a coworker and I were screaming about how Acker was 100% in the wrong, and no court would uphold his claim to the land. 

READ THE FUCKING LEASE BEFORE YOU SIGN IT. 

 Yeah it sucks, but you signed the document, and Mesa Verde offered you more money than they had to.  Kim even understood the hardship the old guy was going thru and offered to help.  So why is this guy who calls her a liar and treats her like shit getting the pass, but Howard and Kevin are the bad guys who gets cons run on them? 

I love Rhea's portrayal of Kim "breaking bad", she's a multi faceted character and a lot of this no one ever saw coming. 

When she stands up for herself, or when she is trying to get herself out of a tough situation can be inspirational.  But to fuck over Howard for sport?  I mean even Jimmy doesn't think it's a good idea. 

 

[SunnyBeBe]

Well, I read all posts up to this point.  I suppose that most issues have been covered.  I'd just like to add that I was also pretty shocked with Kim's enthusiastic desire to put Howard in his place. I've been annoyed with other attorneys before IRL, especially, if I thought they did something underhanded or not very professional, however, NEVER would I attempt to frame a colleague the way she and Jimmy are describing.  It's unfathomable, imo, even for someone like me who has rooted for Walt many times in his crazy schemes.   Yeah, I know what Jimmy did to Chuck, but, that was rather different.   So, are we dealing with a Kim that isn't what she seems? This caused me to explore her passion, which is supposed to be a very amiable trait.  

Kim's passion, according to her is doing pro bono work for the indigent, disadvantaged, and those who are without resources to competent legal services.  But, I'm not so sure.  We have a duty to represent our clients as zealously as possible, within the confines of the law, but, it doesn't seem that Kim really has worked long in defending career criminals.  I don't think she really knows much about it, based on what I have seen so far. 

How long has Kim been out of law school?  Her attitude about doing pro bono work and helping the disadvantaged in criminal cases, really seems like something from a law student or recent graduate, not an experienced attorney.  The Public Defender guy carrying the armload of files gets it.  So, I'm still trying to buy that about her.  I actually think that she may like being around career criminals, but, not for the reason she states. lol 

Edited April 21, 2020 by SunnyBeBe

[DangerousMinds]

3 hours ago, Tikichick said:

For me it seems Kim's change in attitude has been ongoing.  She's become more and more disturbed about how the haves keep on keeping on, whether or not they've earned it or are deserving; while the have nots simply cannot ever move up.

She came to loathe Kevin from MV and everything he stood for.  He wants what he wants and everyone who stands in the way of his whims is irrelevant.  He got where he is not by talent and effort, but simply by being born to it.

Seems like she's possibly transferred a bit of that to Howard, particularly when he pushed the Chuck button.   She realizes that Chuck wasn't always right or truthful about Jimmy and that he was more than willing to let his unworthy little brother take care of him for years while sandbagging and disrespecting him into thinking Chuck was doing Jimmy the favor and that Chuck loved him.   She knows Howard knew how awfully Chuck was treating Jimmy, actively participating in hiding it from Jimmy -- and now he wants to overlook all of that and say that Chuck's viewpoint was right?  She is the only person who has any real idea what Chuck and his death truly did to Jimmy.   Now Howard is simply another entitled brat who has because it was handed to him.

Mix all of that with her absolute terror when Jimmy didn't come home, seeing his coffee mug with a bullet through the middle -- and then the confrontation with Lalo in their living room.  Doesn't seem so out of the blue to me that Kim would snap.

Best post yet! All you said makes perfect sense to me.

[Gobi]

These assassin's are the best? Sure didn't seem like it. Tip for assassins, watch your dead zones.

Might as well change Lalo's name to Juan Wick. He's been drinking, is wounded, yet he gets a head shot with a pistol in a dark room. And, naturally, the pro assassin isn't watching the door instead of the bathtub.

If those guys were pros, there would be a code word or phrase that they would phone back to let their boss know that it worked, or didn't. So, Lalo's little trick wouldn't have worked. They also would have left people outside to cover the entrances, in case of unexpected visitors/reinforcements. Meaning Lalo would have been picked off when he returned.

When Kim pretended to shoot Jimmy (rather insensitive, given recent events), I took it to mean she was telling him that she "got him" and had no intention of going after Howard. I could be wrong.

Speaking of which, while the show could come up with a way for it to work, going after Howard as they planned would be very risky in real life, and more likely to wind up with Kim disbarred at best. Maybe that's what will happen?

[ShadowFacts]

18 minutes ago, BC4ME said:

When Lalo was up at 3AM seemingly waiting, I suspected that he was the one who made the call to Nacho. Or had it made. I actually suspected that when Nacho got the call. Further scenes proved me wrong, but I was not very happy with the whole Lalo escape. I was trying to remember a situation in BB where the not Walt or Jesse bad guys had a miraculous escape and can't. Not that anything Lalo did was that miraculous. It seemed more like those guys Gus thought were impeccable were in fact peccable (lol). At any rate, it was disappointing. IDK how Nacho thought he was going emerge from this blameless even if it had worked. But now things look pretty grim for him. 

I thought something like that, too, I thought Lalo did not trust him after what Kim said, and he was setting him up.  He either gets himself killed that way, or reports the call to Lalo and passes the loyalty test.  I do want to know who made the call though, and did I see it wrong or did he have no cell service again immediately after the call?

 

 

[DangerousMinds]

2 hours ago, ByTor said:

I hate that this is Kim's perception of Kevin.  He's trying to build up his business on a piece of land that he owns, a piece of land that the filthy old man knows he's leasing.  I found him to be the villain of that story, not Kevin, and I can't believe Kim wouldn't be able to see that.

It may not seem rational to some, but I see Kevin the same way 🤷‍♀️. Maybe it’s impossible to explain to those who don’t already see that clearly.

[DangerousMinds]

2 hours ago, Tikichick said:

I think what Kim hates is that Kevin has other options entirely within his grasp to give him equal results, yet he is fixated on one with no regard to the thought that it has significant consequences for other peoples' lives.   Yes, the other residents decided to get while the going was good because they felt they couldn't fight city hall, but we don't know that it didn't impact them negatively all the same. 

Kevin has more than one option to achieve equal results, all positive for him.  The "filthy old man" only has the one option to live his life where and how he chooses.   A different site wouldn't impact Kevin's life at all. 

Exactly!

[Joimiaroxeu]

Kim, you know Jimmy's going to cross the line again. It's who he is, it's what he does.

Kim and Jimmy no longer brushing their teeth together was a bad sign.

Whoa, Lalo is a cool customer under pressure. Home field advantage FTW.

Interesting turn of events to see Jimmy talking Kim out of a scheme. A life-altering scheme at that. Kim just did one of the biggest heel turns in the history of BB/BCS.

Oh, Nacho. Not-dead-yet Lalo is coming for you.

The producers better lock the key cast members in vaults in Antarctica until it's safe to resume production again. Two years might be optimistic for Season 6.

Quote

When Lalo was up at 3AM seemingly waiting, I suspected that he was the one who made the call to Nacho. Or had it made. I actually suspected that when Nacho got the call.

Yep, that was my short take too. Nacho also seemed worried, briefly.

[DangerousMinds]

2 hours ago, ByTor said:

He had two options, the other being to take the money and relocate.

Not Kevin's problem, he did nothing legally or morally wrong, they were leasing land that they knew could be taken back by the owner.

True, but he did have other options and that bothers some of us. Obviously Kim is one of those who was VERY bothered by that.

[nuraman00]

I don't understand Kim's motivation for getting back at Howard.

If this were right after she was banished to document review, or after he didn't give her credit for Mesa Verde, in season 2, then sure.

But so much time has passed since then.

[ByTor]

33 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

I love Rhea's portrayal of Kim "breaking bad", she's a multi faceted character and a lot of this no one ever saw coming. 

I have found Kim & Chuck to be the most intriguing characters on this show.  I don't think I would have felt that way with lesser actors in those roles.

[Bannon]

18 minutes ago, Gobi said:

These assassin's are the best? Sure didn't seem like it. Tip for assassins, watch your dead zones.

Might as well change Lalo's name to Juan Wick. He's been drinking, is wounded, yet he gets a head shot with a pistol in a dark room. And, naturally, the pro assassin isn't watching the door instead of the bathtub.

If those guys were pros, there would be a code word or phrase that they would phone back to let their boss know that it worked, or didn't. So, Lalo's little trick wouldn't have worked. They also would have left people outside to cover the entrances, in case of unexpected visitors/reinforcements. Meaning Lalo would have been picked off when he returned.

When Kim pretended to shoot Jimmy (rather insensitive, given recent events), I took it to mean she was telling him that she "got him" and had no intention of going after Howard. I could be wrong.

Speaking of which, while the show could come up with a way for it to work, going after Howard as they planned would be very risky in real life, and more likely to wind up with Kim disbarred at best. Maybe that's what will happen?

Oh, the squad hired by Gus was completely inept and hapless, which makes me think that writers had Gus building them up to Mike so as to give Mike reason to tear Gus a new one, and put their relationship on a different footing. Especially if Nacho lives long enough to have a conversation with Mike , and Mike thus learns how little opposition the squad faced.

[SunnyBeBe]

What year did the finale wrap up?

[ByTor]

27 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

It may not seem rational to some, but I see Kevin the same way 🤷‍♀️. Maybe it’s impossible to explain to those who don’t already see that clearly.

The only thing that's clear to me is that Kevin was in the right, the old guy wasn't, so I really don't see how Kevin is so bad.  I would agree if he screwed people out of their land over some unclear technicality, but that's not what happened.  Super-lawyer Kim should have known that.

17 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

True, but he did have other options and that bothers some of us. Obviously Kim is one of those who was VERY bothered by that.

What bothers me is that he leased the land knowing the owner had the right to take it back, but then felt like he was entitled to keep it. I do not get how Kim saw someone with a sense of entitlement like that as a rootable underdog, especially since he was wrong.  

 

[DangerousMinds]

5 minutes ago, ByTor said:

The only thing that's clear to me is that Kevin was in the right, the old guy wasn't, so I really don't see how Kevin is so bad.  I would agree if he screwed people out of their land over some unclear technicality, but that's not what happened.  Super-lawyer Kim should have known that.

What bothers me is that he leased the land knowing the owner had the right to take it back, but then felt like he was entitled to keep it.  

 

And even knowing the facts, some of us have (perhaps “irrational”) feelings about it.

[ByTor]

Just now, DangerousMinds said:

And even knowing the facts, some of us have (perhaps “irrational”) feelings about it.

Nobody is calling anybody "irrational." Think what you want, we all have different interpretations of shows, I'm talking about Kim.  It was her job to deal in the facts.

[ShadowFacts]

15 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

True, but he did have other options and that bothers some of us. Obviously Kim is one of those who was VERY bothered by that.

Yes, she was so bothered that she took information gotten by Mr. X and used it against her client, costing him millions.  I knew then that she was capable of huge deception and malpractice, but Kevin's career isn't destroyed the way she's contemplating doing to Howard.  She's dangerous.  It's like she's let the lid off her id.

[ByTor]

One thing I will say about Kevin (and it's the last, being that I don't want to veer too off-topic) is that I cannot believe he didn't suspect Kim & Saul were in cahoots.  Paige too.  

[DangerousMinds]

3 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

Yes, she was so bothered that she took information gotten by Mr. X and used it against her client, costing him millions.  I knew then that she was capable of huge deception and malpractice, but Kevin's career isn't destroyed the way she's contemplating doing to Howard.  She's dangerous.  It's like she's let the lid off her id.

Eh, he had millions to lose and is still filthy rich. But I agree that what she was contemplating doing to Howard is just completely off the rails.

[sistermagpie]

6 hours ago, ByTor said:

I thought this was the 1st instance of truly poor acting by Seehorn.  When she started laughing at Howard, it sounded so forced that I thought Kim was actually repulsed by what Jimmy did to Howard but then fake laughed to piss Howard off, which of course is NOT what happened.

I

I agree with the poster who said the laugh was intentionally off. Though I think it was a combination of Kim performatively laughing and also genuinely exploding with relief. She knows what Jimmy's been up to recently and here's Howard worried about a prank that destroyed a car he can replace.

It kind of also works as a parallel to Jimmy's crazy rant at Howard about lighting bolts coming out of his fingers. She's far beyond him now, how dare he act like he's in any position to tell her about danger?

4 hours ago, Juliegirlj said:

When Jimmy asked Kim if she was serious, she put up two gun fingers and virtually went bam bam. That cannot have been for nothing. I think Kim gets to be the scapegoat for Lalo’s troubles~ 

It's also a reflection of Jimmy's "S'all good man" point at the end of last season.

1 hour ago, BC4ME said:

When Lalo was up at 3AM seemingly waiting, I suspected that he was the one who made the call to Nacho. Or had it made. I actually suspected that when Nacho got the call. Further scenes proved me wrong, but I was not very happy with the whole Lalo escape.

 

I assumed that too, from the minute he got the phone call.

[nuraman00]

54 minutes ago, Gobi said:

When Kim pretended to shoot Jimmy (rather insensitive, given recent events), I took it to mean she was telling him that she "got him" and had no intention of going after Howard. I could be wrong.

Kim "shooting" Jimmy was the reverse of the end of the season 4 finale, and Jimmy pointing at Kim.

[ByTor]

16 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

6 hours ago, ByTor said:

I thought this was the 1st instance of truly poor acting by Seehorn.  When she started laughing at Howard, it sounded so forced that I thought Kim was actually repulsed by what Jimmy did to Howard but then fake laughed to piss Howard off, which of course is NOT what happened.

I

I agree with the poster who said the laugh was intentionally off. Though I think it was a combination of Kim performatively laughing and also genuinely exploding with relief. She knows what Jimmy's been up to recently and here's Howard worried about a prank that destroyed a car he can replace.

I thought is was too at 1st, and I still would have thought it had she not been so gleeful about taking Howard down.