S02.E13: Brothers, Babies and Breakdowns

[Pallas]

The Lunch Box re-opens!

Dan gets a visit from his father's other son; Ben gets baby fever and a serious discussion; Dwight gets cold feet in front of a hot stove.

The Lunch Box re-opens!

[Keywestclubkid]

You said my ovaries were where they filmed Golden Girls ... ok that was funny 

[ams1001]

That baby is so cute.

[statsgirl]

I thought that they did a really good job of juggling three different storylines and did justice to them all. I'll have to borrow Jackie's panic attack technique.

Loved Ben going to get Harris and Mark as a penalty.

[ams1001]

"Your kinfolk ain't good enough for ya?"

😂 Thanks, Conners, I needed that laugh.

[chitowngirl]

So Crystal didn’t see Dan and Rosie with the kids ever?

[Annber03]

15 minutes ago, Keywestclubkid said:

You said my ovaries were where they filmed Golden Girls ... ok that was funny 

I nearly choked on my drink at that :p.

6 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

That baby is so cute.

Yes :). And Ben doting on her was super adorable, too. I kinda wish Darlene had stuck to her guns on the "no baby" thing, 'cause she gave plenty of good reasons why she wasn't keen on the idea, and she's already got Mark and Harris if Ben's looking to be a dad-he's clearly very good with them. 

But he would be a good guy to have a kid with in and of itself, yeah. So we'll see how that pans out. 

Jackie and Becky trying to get somebody to help with the cooking at the restaurant made me think of the "Frasier" episode where Frasier and Niles were opening their own restaurant :D. I'm glad the first day proved successful in the end.

And I'm glad that Dan and Ed Jr. found themselves in a better place at the end, too. I was amused at the thought of Ed trying to actually threaten and fight Dan-look at the guy, kid. But I totally understand both their stances regarding their dad, and I'm glad that they were able to put that aside to forge their own bond. I'd like to see more scenes between them down the line. 

[StaceyNotStacie]

Just now, chitowngirl said:

So Crystal didn’t see Dan and Rosie with the kids ever?

I was thinking the same thing. Now I’m wondering if Ed and Crystal were still married at the end. 

[Snow Apple]

Good episode. The Lunchbox had a good opening and I hope there will be more stories in that setting.

but I'm confused. Crystal is still in the Conner's lives so why wouldn't her children be in their lives too. There's no way Ed was the primary parent.

[UYI]

Other than the Ben and Darlene subplot (not that I want any more babies on this show), I thought this episode was VERY weak. Are we REALLY supposed to believe that Dan didn't see Little Ed and Angela for 20 years when Crystal has appeared ON THIS SHOW in the last two years or so, largely as Darlene's co-worker at the casino? Bullshit. 

And I guess we know for sure now that Ned Beatty is most certainly done with acting if they're killing Ed off.

The best thing I can say about the scenes at the Lunchbox is that Harris accidentally hitting on her dad's brother was funny (but again, I'm NOT buying that they didn't know each other) and that the set has been so faithfully re-constructed. Otherwise, pass. Too OTT for me this week. 

 

[LucyEth]

When the show first came back with Roseanne still in it, wasn't Crystal in an episode or two along with the other friend Annmarie and her husband?  Don't understand the  Ed Jr. and sister storyline.  

[UYI]

2 minutes ago, LucyEth said:

When the show first came back with Roseanne still in it, wasn't Crystal in an episode or two along with the other friend Annmarie and her husband?  Don't understand the  Ed Jr. and sister storyline.  

Yes, and she appeared during the first season of The Conners, too. 

[ams1001]

1 minute ago, LucyEth said:

When the show first came back with Roseanne still in it, wasn't Crystal in an episode or two along with the other friend Annmarie and her husband?  Don't understand the  Ed Jr. and sister storyline.  

Yeah, and everyone in the comments was wondering if she was still married to (or divorced from) Dan's dad or if that whole relationship was erased for the reboot, because it wasn't mentioned. And I guess we still don't quite know.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

I know people complain about Wackie Jackie but jeez haloo, does Laurie Metcalf bring the funny. "WE'RE ON A PRIVATE BEACH, BECKY!"

I also liked that she couldn't reveal whether she showed Dwight her breasts because of Life Coach/client confidentiality.

It seems ridiculous for Darlene to think about having another kid, but from Ben's point of view, I get it. I just hope there isn't a twist where Harris is the one who ends up pregnant.

[Keywestclubkid]

The writing for Ed jr and Dan was all over the place but the Darleen becky stuff and Jackie jokes were hitting ...... the dan ed jr stuff was definitely the weakest part of the episode for me esp how quickly they just made up and went to have a beer... so was crystal written off as a fever dream this season cause unless her kids were super estranged from her also DAN would have had contact .... 

Edited February 19, 2020 by Keywestclubkid

[UYI]

What makes this estrangement with Dan and his siblings more confusing is that it almost implies that Crystal didn't raise them, or that they didn't grow up in Lanford, even though, again, we've SEEN Crystal since the revival, even if Ed and the kids went unmentioned.

I know some will say it's just a TV show, and it is, but this shit bugs. It just feels so unnecessary and clunky. 

Edited February 19, 2020 by UYI

[Bronzedog]

Dan not seeing Ed Jr. in 25 years (I think that's what was said) took me out of this episode since we've seen Crystal, but, it's not any stranger than Jackie not having any female friends a couple of weeks ago.  It's kind of weird that Crystal appears on the show periodically but we're supposed to forget her relationship to the Connors.

[Snow Apple]

Another thing that bugged me was that while Ed was a bad husband and parent and was neglectful, he still loved Dan. I can't see him deliberately keeping his kids apart. Am I remembering wrong?

[UYI]

Some of this probably belongs more in the Past and Present thread, so I'll take any further complaints I have there. 🙂 

[Coffeewinewater]

1 hour ago, UYI said:

Other than the Ben and Darlene subplot (not that I want any more babies on this show), I thought this episode was VERY weak. Are we REALLY supposed to believe that Dan didn't see Little Ed and Angela for 20 years when Crystal has appeared ON THIS SHOW in the last two years or so, largely as Darlene's co-worker at the casino? Bullshit. 

And I guess we know for sure now that Ned Beatty is most certainly done with acting if they're killing Ed off.

The best thing I can say about the scenes at the Lunchbox is that Harris accidentally hitting on her dad's brother was funny (but again, I'm NOT buying that they didn't know each other) and that the set has been so faithfully re-constructed. Otherwise, pass. Too OTT for me this week. 

 

Thank you! I forgot about Crystal working at the casino. There was absolutely no awkwardness between Darlene and crystal at the time so the little Ed storyline makes no sense to me.

Is it weird that I hear Crystal's voice when I read "little Ed"?😄

Edited February 19, 2020 by Coffeewinewater

[DB in CMH]

2 hours ago, UYI said:

What makes this estrangement with Dan and his siblings more confusing is that it almost implies that Crystal didn't raise them, or that they didn't grow up in Lanford, even though, again, we've SEEN Crystal since the revival, even if Ed and the kids went unmentioned.

I know some will say it's just a TV show, and it is, but this shit bugs. It just feels so unnecessary and clunky. 

It's like pretending that Andy doesn't exist. It's so fucking unnecessary. Mention that he's in New York. Done. He exists, and you don't have to cast another character. I don't see the purpose of writing him off. 

The really need to clean house next season and take this shit seriously.  Roseanne was never The Golden Girls - kids didn't appear and disappear, age and deage at the whim of a storyline. It's ruining the show for me.

Edited February 19, 2020 by DB in CMH

[bamlou]

We're all trying to rationalize the inconsistencies of the Ed Jr. storyline, when really it boils down to lazy and dismissive script writing. Once again, this series is frustrating me by cherry picking things from the original Roseanne show it wants to use, while choosing to ignore anything that doesn't fit the story it wants to tell. It's all the more annoying because the original show was always pretty good at keeping continuity with the characters' back histories and relationships, where even small details mentioned once would be recalled seasons later. 

So as everyone has said, the way they portrayed the distant relationship between Dan and Ed Jr. in this episode makes little sense. The least they could have done is paid some lip service to what happened between Crystal and Ed if they were going to have them divorce, or perhaps have him abandon her - a detail like that could have at least given more justification for why Dan cut his dad out of his life (but still wouldn't explain all the contradictory information this plot gave us).

2 hours ago, Snow Apple said:

Another thing that bugged me was that while Ed was a bad husband and parent and was neglectful, he still loved Dan. I can't see him deliberately keeping his kids apart. Am I remembering wrong?

I don't think you're remembering wrong, I had the same thought and it just adds to why the writing for this story was disappointing. Dan had issues with his father, but Ed was always shown as wanting a better relationship with Dan. So it makes no sense why Ed would hide Dan's letters from his other kids. Or why Dan cut Ed out completely from his life - yes, Dan hated his dad for never being there when he was a kid, but when we last saw them together, Dan was trying to make amends with Ed after learning how Ed covered for his mother's mental illness. And even before that there may have been underlying resentment for his upbringing but there was still love between them. The way they (re)wrote their relationship to have Ed be a "low life son of a bitch who treated me and my mother like garbage his whole life" didn't ring true to me.

I've already gone long in the tooth with this post, but as to the other storylines, I'll just say that again they crammed way too many storylines into one episode. And I wish they'd given more of a moment to the Lunchbox re-opening its doors and the personal significance it has to Jackie.

Edited February 19, 2020 by bamlouie

[UYI]

17 minutes ago, DB in CMH said:

It's like pretending that Andy doesn't exist. It's so fucking unnecessary. 

 

I actually think this is WORSE than not mentioning Andy, because like I said before, Crystal has appeared since the show returned to the airwaves, so this feels like a particularly insulting plot twist. Why bring her back at all if they were going to make this little sense later on? 

[Giuseppe]

Completely agree with everyone re: Crystal. I mean, what the hell? When Dan read the obituary for his dad, I kept expecting someone to say something like "hey we should check on Crystal". Then I realized, well damn, Crystal should have been the one to tell him! During the whole first scene with Dan and little Ed, I kept screaming internally "where's your mom???" I guess we're now expected to believe that either A) Crystal never existed in this reboot and she either died or took off shortly after Angela was born and Ed took the kids and moved away, or B) Little Ed and Angela's mom is NOT Crystal and is just some random woman whom Ed got pregnant and possibly married but we never met. Ugh, so annoying.

I'd have bought the scenario we were presented with tonight more if little Ed were yet another son that Ed had after he abandoned Crystal and the kids, and Dan knew about him but never made an effort to know because he was well and truly fed up with his dad at that point.

[Bastet]

Oh, for Pete's sake!  Why aren't women on TV ever actually done having kids?  (Yes, I know - sexism and love of "drah-ma").  This is stupid. 

Ben, when you date a woman in her 40s who already has two kids, both of whom are closer to grown than to little kids, you have to understand she's probably not having more and make your choices accordingly.  She's not "on the fence" when she says no, she doesn't fucking want one. 

Darlene, call upon some semblance of your practicality and strength and remember that you don't want another, you love Ben but don't want to start over as a parent, and "a baby will just make us so much better" is stupid, and don't give into this crap.

This better not carry on.  As funny as Harris and Mark as punitive damages is, this is no joke - women get pressured into this crap all the time, and it should be unequivocally shut down.  Gods, I'm irritated.

Speaking of stupid and irritating, the Ed Jr. storyline.  In the original series, we saw Roseanne, Dan, and their kids interact with Crystal and Lonnie, then Crystal, Ed, and Lonnie, then adding Little Ed and later Angela (although her much less).  Crystal has appeared in the revival season and this spinoff.  So how are they learning of Ed's death via obituary rather than her? 

It's no stretch to say Crystal and Ed divorced, given his repeating of old patterns that Dan warned her about from jump, so even if she's that removed from Ed's life today that she doesn't even know he's dead before the paper does, that wouldn't explain a total lack of contact between any and all of the various family members all this time without an additional explanation, which wouldn't have been all that hard to invent but which the writers didn't bother to provide. 

"Nobody could sell a load of crap better than that guy" is absolutely Dan.  "I didn't feel anything when I found out he  died" isn't, given his conflicting emotions (more negative than positive, but still a pull); if that's the place he's reached, there needs to be some foundation for it.  And the grandkids loved Ed; if he up and abandoned everyone later, fine, in terms of the their reaction now, but how would such a total bounce from the family not mean Crystal - still in town, still part of everyone's life - had raised Little Ed and Angela, meaning the "Who's this guy?" thing about Ed Jr. from the whole family still doesn't work, nor does Ed Jr. being all in for his dad.

This episode made me cranky.

"You said my cervix was where they filmed Golden Girls" was stellar, and there were some other good lines.  But they're overshadowed.

Also, is the beret this show's chicken shirt?  Because now Dan is wearing some sort of beret-beanie hybrid that looks nothing like Dan (in the initial Lunchbox scene, where he's making some final repairs and the cook gets dismembered).

Edited February 19, 2020 by Bastet

[Lovecat]

Refreshing my memory on the Crystal-Big Ed story, I discovered that Crystal’s last name before she married Ed was Anderson, which makes her older son...Lonnie Anderson.  Say it out loud, I’ll wait.  Heh.

But yes, I’ll join the WTF chorus...Crystal was around right after Roseanne died, which in the Connorverse is what, a little over a year?  Was she still living with big Ed in that hoarder house?  And the house itself had to be a reasonable distance from the Connor manse, to make it realistic for Dan to be lured there on the premise of giving a drywall estimate.  So many questions.

Edited February 19, 2020 by Lovecat

[Annber03]

5 minutes ago, Bastet said:

"Nobody could sell a load of crap better than that guy" is absolutely Dan.  "I didn't feel anything when I found out he  died" isn't, given his conflicting emotions (more negative than positive, but still a pull); if that's the place he's reached, there needs to be some foundation for it. 

I kinda wonder if he was just lying when he said he didn't feel anything. Like, it's one of those things he wants to believe and claim is true, but which he knows deep down isn't. 'Cause yeah, I agree that people who don't feel anything over a death don't get all angry about the deceased the way he did. 

[pinkandsparkly13]

Yes so many questions. Lol idk yeah maybe Crystal and Ed divorced a long time ago, like late 90s early 2000s. Maybe the kids liked Ed better than Crystal and they didn't have a relationship with her once they grew up. I mean they should be like 27-30 now? I can't remember exactly when they were both born. And maybe Dan and his dad were never able to repair their relationship, maybe they had another falling out and that was it between them. 

As soon as Ben was loving playing with Bev, I thought great this will be what ends them! He wants a kid and Darlene doesn't. I hope not though. I like them together, but that's a tough situation. 

I really was annoyed by Jackie causing the chef to cut his finger, and Dwight to have that panic attack. Like settle down!

[TomGirl]

1 hour ago, Coffeewinewater said:

Is it weird that I hear Crystal's voice when I read "little Ed"?😄

I hear Rosanne’s voice, with that funny baby talk voice she always used with little Ed and Jerry,

[Keywestclubkid]

They could have cut out the whole estranged crap and just had them disagreeing on how they handled his death (Ed jr with his great memories of big Ed and Dan with his resentment of Ed jr getting the father he never really had and felt like he missed out on) and it would have made a lot more sense “history” wise for where these characters would be. 

[bamlou]

48 minutes ago, Keywestclubkid said:

They could have cut out the whole estranged crap and just had them disagreeing on how they handled his death (Ed jr with his great memories of big Ed and Dan with his resentment of Ed jr getting the father he never really had and felt like he missed out on) and it would have made a lot more sense “history” wise for where these characters would be. 

So much better! This would've made the story much more worthwhile to tell and given more nuance to Dan's complicated relationship with his side of the family. Instead they've only raised a bunch of unnecessary questions.

[rmontro]

I thought this was the best episode in awhile, it had been in a bit of a slump recently.  This one was interesting and funny with several good lines.  

Dan seemed more pleasant.  He had anger toward his father, but at least he had a good reason.

[sheetmoss]

Debbie, you know Mickey is married to your brother Ian....stop hitting on him.

So Shameless😉

Edited February 19, 2020 by sheetmoss

[Chaos Theory]

9 hours ago, sheetmoss said:

Debbie, you know Mickey is married to you brother Ian....stop hitting on him.

So Shameless😉

Crossover crossover crossover.

I was thinking.   Despite a few weaknesses in the character of Darlene she has shown a lot of character growth.  Back with David if she didn’t want to do something she said so and then just shut the conversation down.   With Ben she is willing to at least consider the idea of more children.  Even though she is essentially right she did raise Harris and  Mark on her own because as the joke goes David went out for milk one day........

Big Ed did run out on Dan and his mom but even though he divorced Crystal he learned from his mistakes and made an effort with Ed jr.  
 

Edited February 19, 2020 by Chaos Theory

[Keywestclubkid]

Re the Darlene and Ben baby thing .... I took it as Darlene didn't want another baby because she didn't want and couldn't go through raising it on her own for a 3rd time the late night feeding the sickness the worry that she seemed to carry all alone  ( she even said that to his face at the end) .. it wasn't cause she was done and didn't want another AT ALL but when she was facing the prospect of him leaving her like David  and her having 100% of the responsibility for the child she couldn't do it ... This Darlene at least matured enough to talk about it and talk through what was scary to her unlike when she was younger and said NO and didn't budge ,,... the writers for some reason have only made her character grow and have stunted the rest of the family which is a shame

Edited February 19, 2020 by Keywestclubkid

[greekmom]

14 hours ago, UYI said:

Other than the Ben and Darlene subplot (not that I want any more babies on this show), I thought this episode was VERY weak. Are we REALLY supposed to believe that Dan didn't see Little Ed and Angela for 20 years when Crystal has appeared ON THIS SHOW in the last two years or so, largely as Darlene's co-worker at the casino? Bullshit. 

And I guess we know for sure now that Ned Beatty is most certainly done with acting if they're killing Ed off.

The best thing I can say about the scenes at the Lunchbox is that Harris accidentally hitting on her dad's brother was funny (but again, I'm NOT buying that they didn't know each other) and that the set has been so faithfully re-constructed. Otherwise, pass. Too OTT for me this week. 

 

I am here to agree with everyone about Ed Jr and the fact that they had Crystal in the revival.  Again, I agree that some lip service should have been done in regards why Crystal never mentioned Ed, Ed jr or Angela and then did they get divorced? Did the kids just want to live with dad at some point and forgot about mom? I cannot believe Ed would be a fit parent at anytime and would use his kids to take care of him instead of the other way around.

Actually Harris hit on her grandfather's brother. Not her dad's brother. Harris' uncle would be Mark (Becky's deceased husband).  Ed Jr. is Harris' Great Uncle. 

[Keywestclubkid]

Did anyone find it odd that Harris was hitting on not just a relative but someone that is supposed to be approaching and  in their 30s? (how old are they making him now if he was born in the 3rd season of Roseanne) ... They really need someone that actually watched or wrote for this show.  I mean I get that they de aged her for whatever reason ( she is supposed to be 23 on feb 25th if you go by airdate birthday already not just turning 18) but this changing things just for the sake of a joke or just for shits is getting annoying

Edited February 19, 2020 by Keywestclubkid

[Pallas]

Dan implied that it had been 20 years since he had seen Ed, Jr., but did not specify what age the boy had been at the time. The actor, Noel Fisher, is about to turn 36. But a TVLine Ausiello column from November cites the character's age and background; you can see it here. 

[iMonrey]

I thought the episode was a misfire all around. Everyone has pretty much covered how inconsistent it's been regarding Ed Jr. What I found equally appalling is that apparently Jackie and Becky went through with their ill-advised stew plan. Really? Stew? How many people like stew enough to keep this restaurant afloat? Dumbest idea ever.

I'm also irritated with Ben pushing Darlene to have a baby. In the first place it's a cliche. In the second place it's insulting to imply that a woman who doesn't want a baby needs to change her mind. It's bad enough with a younger woman but it's ten times worse for a woman who's in her mid 40s and already has two children. Sorry, Ben. If having a baby was that important to you, you should have acted on that sooner. 

[Keywestclubkid]

32 minutes ago, Pallas said:

Dan implied that it had been 20 years since he had seen Ed, Jr., but di not specify what age the boy had been at the time. The actor, Noel Fisher, is about to turn 36. But a TVLine Ausiello column from November cites the character's age and background; you can see it here. 

they de aged him to 21? WTF? Why? so apparently everyone on this show waits till around or after 40 to start popping out children like tic taks? The writers are really doing their best to just fuck with everything on this show what next his sister will be 13 and not crystals baby girl that she always wanted?? Continuity really just has been shit all over ...

Edited February 19, 2020 by Keywestclubkid

[Yogisbooboo64]

Loved Becky calling Darlene’s eggs Pterodactyl eggs then the remaining insults they gave each other.

Ben, no….Darlene is already raising two kids.  You are both broke without jobs, how in the bluedilly hell do you think you can manage that?  I loved the interaction by Ben and the baby, I would have gnawed on those feety-toes too!

 

 

[greekmom]

40 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I thought the episode was a misfire all around. Everyone has pretty much covered how inconsistent it's been regarding Ed Jr. What I found equally appalling is that apparently Jackie and Becky went through with their ill-advised stew plan. Really? Stew? How many people like stew enough to keep this restaurant afloat? Dumbest idea ever.

Personally opening up the Lunchbox was a stupid idea. They should have taken over the Mexican restaurant that Louise has/had.  But I think they are offering more comfort foods besides stew. They had a wood oven pizza thing in the back near the kitchen door.

[Snow Apple]

2 hours ago, greekmom said:

Actually Harris hit on her grandfather's brother. Not her dad's brother. Harris' uncle would be Mark (Becky's deceased husband).  Ed Jr. is Harris' Great Uncle. 

Dan did tell Harris she just hit on her great uncle. I remember it sounded weird and forced me to actually think about where everyone falls in that family tree. LOL 

[kwnyc]

Speaking of missing children, have they ever mentioned where Jerry Garcia Conner is? Or was he all part of a dream, too?

[ams1001]

3 minutes ago, kwnyc said:

Speaking of missing children, have they ever mentioned where Jerry Garcia Conner is? Or was he all part of a dream, too?

In the first season (with Roseanne) they said something about him working on a fishing boat. No mention of him since.

[Bastet]

3 minutes ago, kwnyc said:

Speaking of missing children, have they ever mentioned where Jerry Garcia Conner is?

Not in this show, but in the revival season of Roseanne, yes - he works on a fishing boat (and doesn't call home very often).

[Keywestclubkid]

2 minutes ago, RocknRollZombie said:

Something could have happened to their marriage and the kids choose sides of which parent they wanted to stay with. From what I can remember Lonnie was never really fond of Big Ed.

Then that’s sloppy writing 

[seacliffsal]

Gee, must be nice to be unemployed, living in your girlfriend's father's home, and push your girlfriend to have another baby without any thought beyond 'it would be fun...'  This story irritated me so much-especially as when Becky was considering being a surrogate they made a huge deal out of her age which Darlene would now be.  So, we just expect Dan to continue to keep the family afloat and bring even more children into it?

[ams1001]

20 minutes ago, seacliffsal said:

Gee, must be nice to be unemployed, living in your girlfriend's father's home, and push your girlfriend to have another baby without any thought beyond 'it would be fun...'  This story irritated me so much-especially as when Becky was considering being a surrogate they made a huge deal out of her age which Darlene would now be.  So, we just expect Dan to continue to keep the family afloat and bring even more children into it?

How long have they actually been together, anyway? I feel like it hasn't been long enough to be contemplating having a kid.

Edited February 19, 2020 by ams1001

[iMonrey]

Quote

Ed Jr. is Harris' Great Uncle. 

Wouldn't the term actually be grand uncle? Dan is Harris's grandfather, his brother should be her grand uncle. He would refer to Harris as his grand niece, not his great niece. The term "great" implies another generation - i.e. your grandfather's father is your great grandfather. Your great grandfather's brother would be your great grand uncle.

It threw me when Dan referred to Ed Jr. as Harris's "great uncle." My niece's child is my grand niece. 

Edited February 19, 2020 by iMonrey