S05.E02: Miss Me, Kiss Me, Love Me

[scarynikki12]

Quote

When a new blip lands the Legends in 1947 Los Angeles, it puts them on the trail of Benjamin "Bugsy" Siegel who seems to take pleasure in fraternizing with Hollywood Elite.

 

 

[Lantern7]

Heads up for anyone in the NYC area: PIX-11 is running State of the Union instead of tonight's episode. That will be aired Saturday night. While I'm guessing most of us can see it on demand, I'm really upset.

Apologies to @scarynikki12 if I crossed a line. I just didn't want anyone to be surprised.

[scarynikki12]

Zari’s back! Tala was having all the fun playing a Kardashian. She had narcissistic brainless famewhore down perfectly. She did the duck lips and everything! 

Matt Ryan playing Con as a 40s private eye was a scream. I can easily imagine Con watching a ton of old noir movies growing up. He was really flirting with danger calling Sara ‘secretary’. And of course he hooks up with the femme fatale. I’d expect nothing else. 

Caity is well suited to the 40s look. If it didn’t require the uncomfortable undies and hours on hair and makeup I’d suggest she do it regularly. 

Ava and Mick work well together. Fun version of Poison but was that Jes singing? The lip syncing was super obvious so I wasn’t sure if it supposed to really be her or not. 

Oh, Ray, thinking he’d made a friend with a good cop only to be very wrong. “Forget it Ray. It’s Burbank.” Indeed. 

Ray and Con are a delightful pair. More please. 

[Nogoodnamesleft]

The fact in her head Ava thought she was amazing was great as was her dancing in the background while Sara and Mick were talking.

Oh Zari how I missed thee

[bettername2come]

I loved that "Poison" cover. It was a great performance. The 40s is my favorite era so I'm always happy to see the team there. I loved John posing as the PI. The trenchcoat uniform really defies era.

I'm very proud of myself for realizing the dragon kickstarted the Zari's fame. And Zari's back! I kind of hated seeing her in the vapid influencer style, but she nailed the role and looks really pretty with the lighter hair and the whole look. I have to give Tala Ashe credit, she seems so completely different from the Zari we know, while still being smart enough to figure out what was up with Behrad and Nate. 

9 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

Ray and Con are a delightful pair. More please. 

They really are. I love Ray's optimism as a contrast to literally anyone else on the ship. It always leads to interesting moral questions and/or sitcom shenanigans. 

[UNOSEZ]

7 minutes ago, Nogoodnamesleft said:

The fact in her head Ava thought she was amazing was great as was her dancing in the background while Sara and Mick were talking.

Oh Zari how I missed thee

That was humorous... Still not really a fan of "heroes"  not putting down really bad villains in an attempt to save them.. Especially when they know in the meantime the villain will continue to do damage... Other than Zari.. This episode kinda dragged... And I'm don't even want yet another Nate romance SL... And Charlie... Was she even mentioned?  Doesn't look like she's on next weeks episode either... Shame... Maybe she's at that resort that Wally West and Rafael from Legacies hangout out... 

[Josh371982]

Loved Zari coming back but not the Pukeworthy forced Insta Romance with Man whore Nate coming back. Still find it gross what they did to Zari last season with Nate. Insta attraction straightening his tie then made her all about Doucheboy

[Sakura12]

I loved Sara really getting into the character with the 40's accent. I don't know why Sara doesn't get to fight that much anymore. New Kardashian Zari was probably fun for Tala to play but I hope they can give her memories back.

Don't care about Nate/Zari because Nate seems to fall in and out of love quickly. Amaya wasn't that long ago. Still can't stand Ava and they wasted too much time on her singing. Of course I hate that on most shows. And like always we get tons of focus on Ava's issues, while Sara's are forgotten. 

[cryyhavoc]

I have to agree, now that we got Zari back and Mona is gone, can we please get rid of Ava.  Yet another episode of Ava's issues, so boring and annoying.  She is making Sarah less interesting, and that is a shame.

Edited February 5, 2020 by cryyhavoc

[Starfish35]

Definite improvement over their last episode, although I am just over Ava right now and couldn’t care less about her issues.  Loved having Zari back; even this new Zari is no fool, as much as the rest of her family seems to discount her.  Looking forward to seeing how that all plays out, and whether she’ll get her old memories back.  

Rest of the episode was ok. I liked the actress playing Jeannie, though I saw her double cross coming a mile away.  The parallel they drew between her and Astra was a bit heavy-handed, but I guess this will be Constantine’s arc for the season -finding a way to save Astra.  

Forgot to mention: new credits!  Not sure what I think about them yet.  Also, is this the first sighting of Gideon’s hologram face since season one?  I can’t remember.

Edited February 5, 2020 by Starfish35
Left a word out

[thuganomics85]

I see that the Legends of Tomorrow also got a spiffy new title sequence.  Not sure what to make of that one: didn't grab me like The Flash's did.

Glad Zari is back, even though this version is a social media, influencer type Instagram star, instead the wiseass, snarky one that is always a delight.  Still, Tala Ashe was having a blast playing her and I really do think she might be one of the best actors/actress out of the entire Arrowverse.  That said, I hope she does eventually get her memories back and becomes real Zari again (although, I would not be opposed to her not feeling anything for Nate anymore.)

Mission of the week was fun, with the 1947 setting and dealing with the likes of Bugsy Siegel and Jeanie Hill.  Recognized both actors, and it looks like Jeanie's actress had a recurring on The Astronauts Wives show years ago, and Bugsy's actor was in the 2009 remake of Friday the 13th (which had Danielle Panabaker!  Along with Jared Padalecki in the lead role.)

Ava drunken cover of "Poison" was fun and I liked the reveal that it was nowhere near the epic performance she initially thought it was, but I hope they tone down the "Ava feels insecure about her position in life" beats soon, because it's already feeling like its overstaying its welcome: especially since it is reducing the likes of Sara and Mick to just being soundboards for her.

I miss that Olivia Swann is a regular this season, so it looks like Astrid is going to be a round for quite a bit.  Matt Ryan really sold Constantine reaction at the end, but I really don't know how he'll be able to get through to her.

Charlie is still gone, and we still haven't checked in on Nora yet.

 

[Featherhat]

Pretty good episode. Zari makes things better even if it's not the Zari I love the most. I'm glad she's more than just a vapid insta star though and TA is always a delight. And she's back on board! SOooo glad we got to that quickly. We also got confirmation that Zari and Behrad are Iranian American not Egyptian, not surprising given both actors. 

Way to go Nate talking about the big family secret at dinner, professor. Still enjoying Behrad.

I knew that cop was going to be dirty once they paired him up with shiny Ray at his straightest. He tried to one up him though. "Forget it Ray, it's Burbank" lot of meta in there. Good use of Jeannie Hill paired with Constantine and not surprised about any of the Astra stuff or that she's going to be John's season long project. If MM and DD can be redeemed, she can too. MR is really game at throwing himself into gobbledegook phrases and accompanying actions. 

8 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

That was humorous... Still not really a fan of "heroes"  not putting down really bad villains in an attempt to save them..

Well they don't claim to be heroes, they're Legends. 😉 In all seriousness I agree but I can't totally blame John because she was a 10 year old girl who got sucked into hell because of him on his show and it's his and the rest of the Newcastle Gang's fault. Plus where would we be if Our Heroes and big bads started really trying to kill each other in episode 2. 

I do like Ava sometimes but I'm really tired about everything being about her issues, even though obviously it's not fun to be a Type A and suddenly have your whole life cut loose. She and Mick were a good pair but I wish they'd give DP something more to do. I loved that she wasn't  actually awesome up on stage but was having fun drunkenly singing and contributing to the mission. Sara looked great in her 40s get up but I wish she had more to do. Was this affected by crossover filming?

Boo no Charlie but I think she's back next week. 

Edited February 5, 2020 by Featherhat

[UNOSEZ]

3 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

Boo no Charlie but I think she's back next week. 

I didn't see her in the previews.. But I hope you're right... I do get why John will try to save Astra.. And it makes sense.. Maybe even more than trying to save Nora as.. Ray wasn't as responsible for what happened to you Nora as John was.. Its just a real selfish action that never seems to get addressed... If somehow after he saves Astra it can be spoken about how many lives she's ruined by sending these ppl from hell back to earth between the end of this episode and whenever her arc is finished  so we can at least get an idea of the toll.. Than maybe that's a start... Kinda figured she woulda had a British accent tho.. She sounds like Madeline mantock doing an American accent so its distracting

[MarkHB]

45 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

Plus where would we be if Our Heroes and big bads started really trying to kill each other in episode 2. 

Season 1?

 

46 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

Boo no Charlie but I think she's back next week. 

She is at least in the fancy new credits! Which I loved except would it have killed them to show Ray as the Atom, instead of freaking Sir Raymond of the Palms? At the same time, I'm guessing they'll redo them once Zari figures things out and comes back full-time.

Ava was great both doing the real singing and the drunk act, which I thought was hilarious.  And, between that dress and the shirt she had on last week, it seems that now that she's out of her GS-rated Anderson-Little suits, Ava's being a little more... curves-forward, shall we say. Which, trust me, I'm not complaining!

I've said since Season 1, Caity wears dramatic clothes really, really well.

[Lady Calypso]

Yeah...count me as another who just couldn't care less about Ava's issues. Now, I did get a laugh out of her singing in her dream vs singing in reality moment, but other than that, I was hoping for more from Sara. But...the Ava/Mick stuff wasn't bad at all. It was somewhat fun to watch, and Jes seemed to be glad to be able to let loose and show more emotion. As Ava, she doesn't get a lot of opportunity to do that, so at least she got to here.

Zari's back! Yes, she's not exactly our Zari, but this episode did her more justice than most of her storyline last season. Granted, it's still a little about Nate, but she actually gets to do more than pine over Nate, which is great. I was wary of Kardashian Zari, but I think she did an excellent job at walking the line between comedic yet also grounded. There were still moments where she felt like the Zari we did get to know, with her caring about her brother. And she reminded me why Tala Ashe is such an excellent actress. She really pulls off the comedy and the dramatic.

Behrad is still awesome. I really like what they're doing with his character. I can't wait to see even more interactions between him and Zari.

Sara in her 40s accent was great. Caity pulls off the time period look and behaviour well.

I liked the scenes with John and Astra. No surprise he's going to try to save her.

[Sakura12]

I did like seeing Sara seducing Bugsy. I wish they did more with that since he was a hitman and she was an assassin.

But no we had to spend time on Ava's issues again. And look she suddenly can feel emotions and express herself because its her issue. And once again everyone has to pat her on the back and tell her she's awesome. Losing a friend in a battle that you went to hell and back with is totally comparable to losing a job you didn't earn but were programmed to do. So let's spend probably a few episodes dealing with the later issue and forget the first one ever happened. 

[Starfish35]

5 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Still, Tala Ashe was having a blast playing her and I really do think she might be one of the best actors/actress out of the entire Arrowverse.

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

I was wary of Kardashian Zari, but I think she did an excellent job at walking the line between comedic yet also grounded. There were still moments where she felt like the Zari we did get to know, with her caring about her brother. And she reminded me why Tala Ashe is such an excellent actress. She really pulls off the comedy and the dramatic.

Agreed - Tala Ashe is amazing. I too was wary of what we were going to get with this new Zari, but I was surprised to find how much I enjoyed it.  I still miss our old Zari, and I do hope eventually this Zari gets her old memories back, but in the meantime...this one can stay.  It’s true that “spoiled social media star” is a beat that they could easily overplay, going forward, but so far so good.  

[darkestboy]

A strong second episode. Like the new title sequence. I didn't expect that we'd get one though.

Constantine not giving up on Astra makes sense and I do think it'll result in her being redeemed before the season ends. Right now though, she seems to having a lot of fun at John's expense.

The Bugsy and Jeannie bits of the episode were great as well. I did however totally see Bugsy getting blasted by that demon gun coming a mile off.

Sara, Ava and Mick made a good team this week. Ava's atrocious singing was amusing, though it did go on for a bit.

New Zari quickly got brought into the mix thanks to Behrad and Nate. This should be fun.

Ray is too good at times, 7/10

Edited February 5, 2020 by darkestboy

[StaceyNotStacie]

I’m not a fan of Constantine and his underworld story, but the rest of it was enjoyable. Sara and Ray were great and Ava’s two musical moments were fun. I like both Zari and her brother and hope that they’ll eventually both remain Legends. 

[Bruinsfan]

Count me among those who are thrilled by Zari's return.

When Ava started her number I was thinking "oh come on, how could she possibly teach a 1940s big band to play "Poison" in a few minutes?" But the reveal that she was a drunken mess bellowing the lyrics out on an empty stage to the horror of all within earshot was hilarious. Did Seigel not have any bouncers or staff who could hustle her out of the dining room, or did Mick take them out off camera?

[Cyphodyas]

7 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I did like seeing Sara seducing Bugsy. I wish they did more with that since he was a hitman and she was an assassin.

But no we had to spend time on Ava's issues again. And look she suddenly can feel emotions and express herself because its her issue. And once again everyone has to pat her on the back and tell her she's awesome. Losing a friend in a battle that you went to hell and back with is totally comparable to losing a job you didn't earn but were programmed to do. So let's spend probably a few episodes dealing with the later issue and forget the first one ever happened. 

No one ever said she couldn't feel emotions.  Her problem was reading/responding appropriately to others, which is largely due to her lack of experience with them.  Which she showed improvement on by the end of the last episode when she was the one who read Sara's emotions properly of all the Legends and shut down the movie premiere.  She needed it to be spelled out to her, and once it was she responded appropriately.  

And if that job is the only thing you've ever had at the center of your entire life, and the litmus through which you were made to feel like you had some type of value or reason to exist, then yeah, losing that might be a tiny, little bit of a problem.  

The irony of the same people who blast Ava for having trouble processing the right way to respond to Sara's grief are unwilling to consider Ava's actual emotions or point of view in any way if it's inconvenient is wonderfully ironic, in an unintentional way.  

I'm a big fan of noir and there was something hilariously Howard Hawks-y about a tall blonde singing very badly.  

I really find the whole issue of one single line, that was a one-off joke more than anything, being used to hate on a character.  I was able to get over the way Oliver responded to Sara's death, making it about himself and his sister, disrespecting her lover, father, sister, and stuffing her body away and acting self-righteous about his choices.  I'm sure people will eventually get over Ava having a one-off line that she knew and acknowledged wasn't appropriate.

And how do we feel about Nate "he shouldn't have done the crossovers" "glad I didn't do the crossovers" Heyward?  

Yeah, that's what I thought.  lol 

[Starfish35]

11 minutes ago, Cyphodyas said:

And how do we feel about Nate "he shouldn't have done the crossovers" "glad I didn't do the crossovers" Heyward?  

Yeah, that's what I thought.  lol 

Er well.  I don’t know about other places, but a good chunk of this forum has never had much use for Nate at all.  I myself only started coming around (to some extent) on him last season, but still kind of feel like Zari is wayyyyyy too good for him and would rather the writers hadn’t gone there.

[Sakura12]

I've had issues with Ava since she was introduced so her one off line was just added on to everything else. It's funny to mention Oliver making it about himself when Ava's made it about herself twice in her "apologies" where we had to see Sara praise and comfort her in the end. My issue with Ava stems from the fact that it's always Sara that has to make the effort, it's always Sara doing what Ava wants, it's always Sara forgiving/praising Ava when she was the one with the issue in the first place. Everything in their relationship always ends up being about Ava. Sara has to forgo her feelings to make sure Ava's okay. 

We've also seen in the beginning of S3 when Sara pretty much lost her job that she was actually chosen for because of her learned skills and Ava was a complete ass to her and looked down at her. I know they weren't together then, but Ava supposedly read her file so she knows what's Sara's gone through and still chose to treat her like garbage. 

So no, I don't feel sorry for Ava I only care about my own feeling and issues losing her job that she was programmed to do. She could've applied her pity party to what Sara was going through losing an actual person that was important to her. But of course we'll probably spend half the season dealing with Ava being lost without a job, while Sara losing Oliver will never be spoken of again. I'm not looking forward to seeing Sara have to constantly support Ava with all her issues, while getting none of that same support back. 

 

[Featherhat]

Ava has always been able to feel very human emotions. She was absolutely devastated when she found out she was a clone, devastated when Sara broke up with her because she herself was on an "I'm a monster" kick. She knew she wasn't "the marrying kind" in the beebo ep and had previous girlfriends. She knows how to be human when it's her storyline. Last week she suffered from the very human emotion of jealousy and lack of knowing what to do to comfort a grieving loved one. It just stuck a jarring cord for me even if it was supposed to be funny as well. 

I hated how Arrow reacted to Sara's death primarily because to me it was all about Laurel and her DESTINY. I was furious that Sara and her mask literally fell at her feet. Oliver started out from her death but went off on a different tangent when Malcolm got involved. Laurel was the one single white female-ing her sister, impersonating her to her Dad which was beyond cruel and getting told she had a light Sara never had 🤬. Sorry rant for another forum. 

It just seems since last season 85% of their relationship has been from her POV and Sara's issues are brushed more to the side or she has to prove herself worthy of Ava. This ep she was all about making sure Ava wasn't humiliated by the reality of her awesome singing, which wasn't even a big deal in the grand scheme of LOT embarrassments and just drew a parallel.

Not all the time but *shrug* last week just didn't help a relationship I've always been iffy on since it went from hair up *antagonist* to hair down "it's on!" Ava can be an interesting character and Jes is a good actress but....

Like @Starfish35 I have never been a big fan of Nate until he started to "adult" with Ava and his Dad at the Bureau last season that was good for both their characters. Or at the very end of the Amaya arc. Still frustrated his entrance took the wind out of AtomWave bromance.

Edited February 5, 2020 by Featherhat

[Sakura12]

 I'm not sure what Nate has to with Ava and Sara's relationship. But I don't like him either. Nor do I care about him and Zari. I hated they paired her with him and them fall in insta love like Ava and Sara. Of course Ava's was more jarring since she was an asshole that let her hair down and was suddenly in love with Sara. At least Nate and Zari were friendly towards each other before. 

I've even said I'd rather have the whole team feel like someone is missing instead of it just being Nate. I'd like to see Sara thinking Behrad said something Zari told her and Behrad being confused. I'd also like to know where Charlie went. She got treated dirty by the writers and she wasn't even just a love interest like Sara and Zari. 

I did appreciate that they still made Zari smart, when she said she did recognize Nate from somewhere and went and found the video. I hope we can see more slight traces of old Zari in new Zari. I would also love for them to not have new Zari fall for Nate. But I doubt that will happen. 

[UNOSEZ]

To piggyback some of the last few comments... I don't like Ava.. Because she's boring and her being on the waverider takes screentime away from Charlie( I'm not even gonna start with this bull)  and Zari as far as females go.. And as she's always right next to or speaking about Sara she takes up Sara's bandwith too... Oddly its how I felt about Nate when he showed up.. All of a sudden Jax barely has anything to do and if he does its with Dr. Stein... Ray and Mick stop being super close cause Bro-dude Nate hoovered the oxygen out the room.. I'd complain about what happened to Wally.. But what would be the point... If/ when Charlie comes back and if/ when they decide to hook her up with someone.. Plz let it be Berhad and not Constantine or Mick... This show has a history of pairing its WOC with only White fellas.. And maybe it's availability as that's who's on the ship and where in history they go.. Bit that's also on the writers as something they can control and so far they haven't 

[raven]

This was just an OK episode for me; not as much fun as usual.

Ava is becoming a drag, though the singing was fun.  I don't care about her like I do Mick and Zari; Mick especially is side lined; nuZari at least got some fun stuff to do.  I like Nate but am tired of the romance angle.  I like Behrad too but there are too many people now.

Caity Lotz looks good in any period costume.  Damn.  She also needs more interesting stuff to do as she is easily the most charismatic performer on the show (not a small feat with the majority of this group) and has really good comic timing too. 

Ray is like a fine wine; he pairs with everyone.  Loved his and Constantine's team up, even if I do feel sometimes that Constantine is on the wrong show.

22 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

Oh, Ray, thinking he’d made a friend with a good cop only to be very wrong. “Forget it Ray. It’s Burbank.” Indeed. 

That was great, I did LOL at that.

[Bruinsfan]

Every time I begin to feel a tiny bit of... not affection, but maybe the absence of distaste? for Nate he pulls something like whinging about being expected to pitch in when other superheroes inform the Legends about threats to the multiverse. Oliver, while you were retconning happy endings for people left and right couldn't you have swapped him out for Martin Stein or Leonard Snart? Hell, I'd accept Rip as a substitute.

[Josh371982]

Nate Is a Product of Phil Klemmer and it shows. Hes that guy that have a Magic Penis and women who normally wouldnt want him fall in insta love cause Hes Phil's ""Stud" Character. And it sucks Ray and Nora are leaving while he stays. 

[tennisgurl]

"Forget it Ray, its Burbank." I have a big soft spot for noir/40s era Hollywood, so this was a fun episode for me. Almost as fun as it was for Sara and Constantine, who instantly blend into the period. Sara in particular seemed to be having a blast with her femme fatal act, and it was nice seeing her have fun after how much pain she has been in after the crisis. Jeannie double crossing Con was pretty much inevitable (being the sexy dame in this kind of story) but I didnt think they would actually kill her off. 

Oh Ray, you really are just too sweet for your own good sometimes, this is why you need Nora around! I really like the interactions between Ray and Constantine, and that he managed to convince Con to try and help save Astra. Ray just makes the world shine a bit brighter! 

The "expectation vs reality" singing bit with Ava was funny, and she and Mick were pretty good together, of course Mick is good with everybody, so that was probably inevitable. Maybe I am still a bit ruffled over that Oliver crack in the last episode, but I am just not a huge Ava fan. I dont hate her or anything, she has her moments and has an interesting backstory that can be interesting to explore, but I generally find it disappointing that, of Sara's many, many love interests or possible pairings, that she ended up in a long term romance with the dullest one, by a long shot. While many of the characters have their faults or do and say crappy or stupid things, Ava is the one who, to me, has the least personality and endearing qualities to balance it out. 

Zari! Oh thank God I missed her so much! Tala is clearly having a blast playing this social media influencer version of Zari, and she seems like a lot of fun, although I hope we get "our" Zari back. I mean, I dont want her to lose her whole family in a dystopian future or anything (I continue to quite enjoy Behrad and hope they can both stick around) again, but I miss our snarky, perpetually snacking Zari. I do like that its clear that this Zari is still quite intelligent and tech savy, even if its coming about in a different way. I do wish that someone besides Nate remembered Zari. The Nate/Zari thing never worked, and was so out of nowhere and bizarre that I sent half of their relationship thinking they were being influenced by some outside force or it was some kind of parallel universe thing leaking into their reality or something. I like both of them as characters, but together they just never worked. 

 

[Oreo2234]

Quote

but I am just not a huge Ava fan. I dont hate her or anything, she has her moments and has an interesting backstory that can be interesting to explore, but I generally find it disappointing that, of Sara's many, many love interests or possible pairings, that she ended up in a long term romance with the dullest one, by a long shot.

I actually like Ava and think Jes Macallan is a good actress. I think Ava and Sara work better than Nate and Zari and are fairly good by arrowverse romance standards. That said, though their chemistry is nice enough I do think Sara has had stronger chemistry with other women and men she's interacted with. 

Quote

Zari! Oh thank God I missed her so much! Tala is clearly having a blast playing this social media influencer version of Zari, and she seems like a lot of fun, although I hope we get "our" Zari back. … The Nate/Zari thing never worked, and was so out of nowhere and bizarre that I sent half of their relationship thinking they were being influenced by some outside force or it was some kind of parallel universe thing leaking into their reality or something.

Tala Ashe is doing a great job, I do hope we eventually get the old Zari back because she was one of my favorite characters. Unfortunately, I'm not sure we actually will get that Zari back. 

Nate and Zari have to be one of the most out of nowhere romances I've seen. It's like they didn't even have plans for it when they started writing the season. 

Edited February 6, 2020 by Oreo2234

[BaggythePanther]

Maisie was filming a movie in South Africa in the beginning of the season, so they had to write her out of the first few episodes. I’ll be interested to see how much screen time she has when she gets back.

1 hour ago, Oreo2234 said:

I think Ava and Sara work better than Nate and Zari

That’s a back handed complement in my opinion, but I agree. I feel like the writers sometimes have a tendency to favor their original characters so we’ll explore more of Ava’s point of view because that’s the story they want to tell. I don’t mind Ava, and I actually prefer her in storylines with characters other than Sara. Ava and Mick are always a good pair and I loved that Big Band version of “Poison”. Is that available for download? I’d buy it.

Great to have Zari back, even if she’s basically a Kardashian. Though the Kardashians run a multimillion dollar empire so I guess there are worse things you could be. I loved seeing the whole family speaking in Farsi and I hope Zari and Behrad keep it up on the ship. That shared culture and family dynamics is something that “our” Zari lost and I’m looking forward to seeing this Zari experience that. Though I thought Zari’s mother wore a hijab? Did that change with the timeline? I don’t like that Nate is the only one to remember her. They were dating for less than a month so I don’t buy that they had an epic romantic connection that’s stronger than any of Zari’s other connections on the Waverider.

Also, the show has new credits! I prefer these credits rather than the voiceovers. I hope Supergirl and Batwoman get a new intro too.

[MarkHB]

Re the Burbank joke, is there something I'm not getting?  I've never been there (or spent any meaningful time in SoCal), but I'm aware that: it's an LA suburb, it's the home of Warner Bros. and Disney and was for a long time the home of NBC before they merged with Universal. But beyond that, I'm lost.

[Sakura12]

8 minutes ago, MarkHB said:

Re the Burbank joke, is there something I'm not getting?  I've never been there (or spent any meaningful time in SoCal), but I'm aware that: it's an LA suburb, it's the home of Warner Bros. and Disney and was for a long time the home of NBC before they merged with Universal. But beyond that, I'm lost.

It's a quote from the noir movie Chinatown. They changed it to Burbank since they weren't in Chinatown. It means this is the way it was, you can't change it. 

 

[Starfish35]

Thanks, I wasn’t getting it either.  😄

[Josh371982]

On the Shallow end Sara and Ava were looking pretty hot in their 40s apparel 

 

14 hours ago, BaggythePanther said:

Maisie was filming a movie in South Africa in the beginning of the season, so they had to write her out of the first few episodes. I’ll be interested to see how much screen time she has when she gets back.

That’s a back handed complement in my opinion, but I agree. I feel like the writers sometimes have a tendency to favor their original characters so we’ll explore more of Ava’s point of view because that’s the story they want to tell. I don’t mind Ava, and I actually prefer her in storylines with characters other than Sara. Ava and Mick are always a good pair and I loved that Big Band version of “Poison”. Is that available for download? I’d buy it.

Great to have Zari back, even if she’s basically a Kardashian. Though the Kardashians run a multimillion dollar empire so I guess there are worse things you could be. I loved seeing the whole family speaking in Farsi and I hope Zari and Behrad keep it up on the ship. That shared culture and family dynamics is something that “our” Zari lost and I’m looking forward to seeing this Zari experience that. Though I thought Zari’s mother wore a hijab? Did that change with the timeline? I don’t like that Nate is the only one to remember her. They were dating for less than a month so I don’t buy that they had an epic romantic connection that’s stronger than any of Zari’s other connections on the Waverider.

Also, the show has new credits! I prefer these credits rather than the voiceovers. I hope Supergirl and Batwoman get a new intro too.

I largely Despise the Kartrashians and people like them, The Cash me Outside Girl and other products from Trash Reality shows being rich are a big problem JMO

[Regalbegal]

I enjoyed the episode, but can't say it was one of my favorites.  Only based on two episodes so far, of course, but I feel like the season hasn't quite clicked for me yet. Could be me bc I didn't watch any of the cross-over stuff. 

On 2/4/2020 at 7:10 PM, Nogoodnamesleft said:

The fact in her head Ava thought she was amazing was great as was her dancing in the background while Sara and Mick were talking.

I am not the hugest fan of Ava (I am over her "clone pain"), but this was pretty funny/endearing.  

18 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Oh Ray, you really are just too sweet for your own good sometimes, this is why you need Nora around! I really like the interactions between Ray and Constantine, and that he managed to convince Con to try and help save Astra. Ray just makes the world shine a bit brighter! 

The two of them were my favorite part of the episode.  Ray really is a rainbow in character form!  I miss Nora, and their interactions, too, though. 

[statsgirl]

On 2/5/2020 at 6:14 PM, Sakura12 said:

it's always Sara doing what Ava wants, it's always Sara forgiving/praising Ava when she was the one with the issue in the first place. Everything in their relationship always ends up being about Ava. Sara has to forgo her feelings to make sure Ava's okay. 

Yes to your whole post but especially this.  Sara is the reason I started watching this show (along with Ray) and Sara's rise from hating herself to a strong, understanding captain. In fact, the only thing I don't like about Sara is how her relationship with Ava is always about what Ava wants and needs, not Sara's.

The writers like Ava and Nate a great deal more than I do.

18 hours ago, BaggythePanther said:

I feel like the writers sometimes have a tendency to favor their original characters

Certain original characters. Amaya was sacrificed on the altar of Nate, and last season so was Zari.

[snarktini]

On 2/5/2020 at 3:43 PM, Sakura12 said:

I'm not sure what Nate has to with Ava and Sara's relationship. But I don't like him either. Nor do I care about him and Zari. I hated they paired her with him and them fall in insta love like Ava and Sara.

Hmm. My interpretation was that Zari was playing Nate, trying to get the truth about her brother and the totem. I didn't think she was actually into him.

Totally saw the "It's Burbank" line coming.

[opus]

On 2/4/2020 at 9:02 PM, Lantern7 said:

Heads up for anyone in the NYC area: PIX-11 is running State of the Union instead of tonight's episode. That will be aired Saturday night. While I'm guessing most of us can see it on demand, I'm really upset.

Apologies to @scarynikki12 if I crossed a line. I just didn't want anyone to be surprised.

A few hours ago I started to play my DVR recording, and found you know who instead of the show. Had to go to on demand. Of course, had to sit through the commercials that way, but shrug.

[Sakura12]

34 minutes ago, snarktini said:

Hmm. My interpretation was that Zari was playing Nate, trying to get the truth about her brother and the totem. I didn't think she was actually into him.

Totally saw the "It's Burbank" line coming.

I meant initially not with new Zari. They went from thinking they liked each other to being so in love that Zari erased herself from meeting the Legends to save Nate. 

[snarktini]

7 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

I meant initially not with new Zari. They went from thinking they liked each other to being so in love that Zari erased herself from meeting the Legends to save Nate. 

Got it! Yeah, that was weird.

[Lantern7]

Caught the episode last night. I don’t have much time to fully comment . . . but is anyone else distressed that social media obsession is still a “thing” in 2044? Also, my idea for an alternate episode title: “Enter the Zardashian.”

[ketose]

5 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Caught the episode last night. I don’t have much time to fully comment . . . but is anyone else distressed that social media obsession is still a “thing” in 2044? Also, my idea for an alternate episode title: “Enter the Zardashian.”

Or maybe "Never Trust a Big Butt and a Smile"

I'd think "Dragon Girl" would fade after a while. Even if she makes millions, she's been milking that thing for a quarter century.

[Sakura12]

I think Zari being smart would use her fame to launch other things. I didn't seem like she was still capitalizing on the dragon. They never mentioned the dragon until Nate looked at the magazine cover.

Also what happened to the dragon? Last we saw the baby dragon left with little Zari. 

[legaleagle53]

This show really is the most underrated member of the Arrowverse. The comedy was outstanding, and Jes was definitely the MVP in that "karaoke" bit in the club. And I could see that Sara really got into it as the "femme fatale" coming on to Bugsy -- er, I mean, Benjamin.  Everyone is right -- Caity is a natural for rocking the period outfits as a rule, but Old Hollywood is definitely her best look!

[Aeryn13]

The episode was fun enough but for quite a while now for me the dynamics of the team have been off. 

Avalance is a continued drag on Sara with Ava being so super-high maintenance and mollycoddled - why shouldn`t she been taken down a peg and made aware of her atrocious singing? Boohoo, the other Legends are humiliated like that all the time. I even get that the character has legit issues but this bending over backwards for her annoys me. 

I enjoyed that Zari, despite making money of an airhead persona isn`t really one. She is still smart and perceptive. 

But we ran into the other couple`s pitfalls here with Nate`s "but what about meeeeee?" vibes. I think the character and actor work well in comedic terms and the story with his father was pretty good but this "stud" persona? Nope. Just nope.   

Mick sitting on the sidelines has to be meta at this point. Charlie not being there at all (behind-the-scenes reasons notwithstanding) as well. 

Ray got some good bits. Sara`s seduction of Bugsy was nice as well. Good thing Ava was swimming in self-pity at the bar already or Sara would have had to rush over to validate her some more after that.

Constantine`s multiple trips to hell were kind of funny. 

In general, I hope they find a better balance in utilizing characters. 

[Sakura12]

For me the issue is they spend too much time on Nate and Ava. The rest are just there to move the main plot along or just sit in the background (Mick). While the plot comes to a complete stop to focus on Nate and Ava's issues. They get the character stories while everyone else gets nothing. 

The constant coddling/praising of Ava makes me think Sara's dating a grown up toddler. Which Ava basically is. Ava could be a interesting character, but the way they are showing her is not interesting to me. If they want to focus on Ava then focus on her wanting to be more than a clone or something. Have her want to experience new things that were not programmed into her. She should experience humiliation and failure that's part of being human. I mean we have her constantly pointing out how Sara's a screw up and should be more like her. When Ava sobers up, Sara should show her the video and let her know it's okay to be embarrassed about something or making a drunken fool of yourself, that's part of life. 

 

[ketose]

I can cut Ava some slack. I remember the same problems with Zari early on.

Speaking of, I assume the "real" Zari is coming back. I hope they don't just Martian Manhunter it. That's just lazy.

[Aeryn13]

3 hours ago, ketose said:

I can cut Ava some slack. I remember the same problems with Zari early on.

Speaking of, I assume the "real" Zari is coming back. I hope they don't just Martian Manhunter it. That's just lazy.

I don't remember it much with Zari. However, Ava has been on since Season 3 and she was already super high-maintenance for the entirety of last Season where she had to be validated and catered to her issues all over the place. Now that looks not only go on for yet another Season but even intensifies. I think thr best thing they could do for her right now is give her Mick's sideline role for a couple of episodes.