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Trini

S06.E10: Marathon

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After The Citizen prints an explosive story, Iris's life is threatened. Refusing to hide from those that are attacking her, Iris sets out to expose a dangerous organization. Meanwhile, Barry must face the consequences of the Crisis and fulfill Oliver Queen's wish for him.

Stefan Pleszczynski directed the episode written by Sam Chalsen & Lauren Barnett.

Airdate: 2/4/2020

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Edited by Trini

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The new opening credits? Is it just new for this episode, for the rest of the season? Because I would not hate if it was permanent; it was actually a pretty cool opening. Maybe a tad long, but I really liked it. It got to showcase all of the main players. 

The CC Jitters reopening scene made me laugh. 

I will say...getting to see Team Citizen with Cecile was great. I remember bitching about how this show was incapable of having two women interacting for about...four and a half seasons? Maybe a full five seasons? So...one of the things this season has done right is actually letting their women interact, and do it well. 

I really loved all the Iris stuff. I was hesitant, but it really took six seasons for them to give Iris an actual plot...that's good! And about her! Yay! And they somewhat explained why Iris was acting so weird for the first half of this season. Well...more like trying to explain why they had Iris seemingly not giving a shit about Barry's death, but, y'know, it worked.

Barry got some nice moments with Diggle as well. He also got to use his intelligence for one single scene! Progress! 

Caitlin and Cisco also got some nice moments. Danielle and Carlos really do work well together...but as Caitlin/Cisco, not Frost/Cisco. However...is Cisco now gone? It felt like a goodbye for the rest of the season (at least until the finale). I know I thought that Cisco was making his departure last season...but this one legit had a goodbye-for-now vibe. Not that I'd be surprised if he came back in two-three episodes...

I could still do without Nash. Sorry, show. You really screwed his character this season with Pariah. 

The ending was great. I am heavily curious as to what Iris stumbled upon. 

Seriously, this was a great premiere. I think because there were a lot of character moments, which I appreciate.

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Loved this episode.

First off, love the new intro and outro.

We got to see badass Iris. This is the journalism story I've been waiting for. Iris taking down an organization. This has been a constant when it comes to a story: Iris not back down. I love how she doesn't care how dangerous it is. She cares about Central City and wanting them to know the truth.

I miss Joe and Iris scenes. Glad it wasn't cut this time. Iris needed those words from Joe. She can go after this organization but she can't be reckless with it.

I don't like Nash, but I feel like its unfair to be yelling and getting angry with him over crisis.

Dare I say I didn't really care for Diggle and Barry's story? I'm but I didn't.

Killer Frost was useless. She freezed her injury and took it out. She just laid there waiting to get killed. Then, continued to stay there and watch that person walk away. Wtf?

Did I mention how much I love the intro?

Looks like Cisco will be missing for an episode or two?

How can that Harry message exist in this new world? Cisco only remembers them because his memory was restored. Harry and Jesse came from Earth 2 in Pre-Crisis. Cisco made it clear they didn't exist on Earth Prime for Post-Crisis. So how would he have that message? That makes no sense.

I'm really interested in seeing that mirror world. I can't wait for next week.

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Well, the local station is running the State of the Union . . . so I have sixty minutes on my hands. I might as well post about tonight's episode.

Hey, we got a map of Earth-Prime from Cisco! I thought that only the Paragons knew what happened prior to Crisis. I guess he got a visit from J'onn J'onzz: M'edicine M'ann. I didn't expect Gotham City to be that far west. Metropolis is near the NYC aream while National City is on the other side of the country. Freeland is in the south, probably in Georgia (I saw a reference earlier this season). And Gorilla City is on Earth-Prime! Also, Cisco now has a Superman t-shirt he doesn't remember getting. Must be a day that ends in "Y" over at STAR Labs!

With Barry going on a wild Mirakuru chase (ah, memories of second season Arrow), we get Iris playing reporter. That was fun, though I wonder if that would be toned down if we get Lois Lane on a weekly basis like we might in 2020-2021. Looks like we're getting Black Hole from new52-era DC Comics. Sadly, the stinger was telegraphed for me . . . sometimes, it sucks to know the comics. I'm thinking that if we do see Eva McCulloch, she'll have an accent that can dent steel.

I was okay with Diggle dropping by. Barry winds up thinking Oliver left him a clue, which meant a jaunt to Lian Yu, located inside a dead zone where Iris can't reach him. At least Diggle didn't chunder this time. Good for him.

I thought Dr. Light was new. I forgot the "original" was Earth 2 Linda Park. This one is Kimiyo Hoshi. Looks like the Crisis references are still coming on strong.

Edited by Lantern7
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5 minutes ago, BeautifulFlower said:

How can that Harry message exist in this new world? Cisco only remembers them because his memory was restored. Harry and Jesse came from Earth 2 in Pre-Crisis. Cisco made it clear they didn't exist on Earth Prime for Post-Crisis. So how would he have that message? That makes no sense.

Not only that, but Cisco's dumb line about not remembering owning a Superman shirt? But he should have TWO sets of memories pre and post-Crisis. So why did they make it seem like Cisco was a Paragon and, thus, had no memories from Earth-Prime when he absolutely should?

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Really enjoyed it... They somehow managed to not have the only doctor on the team not be in a scene with the injured Iris... It feels like they know we think they don't talk and are trolling us... Danielle is looking real pregnant.. I wonder how/if they'll write it in... Is Nash technical enough to handle the duties.. If not maybe Chester can step in... Barry flashed some different ability with dig.. But I didn't really catch it... 

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9 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Not only that, but Cisco's dumb line about not remembering owning a Superman shirt? But he should have TWO sets of memories pre and post-Crisis. So why did they make it seem like Cisco was a Paragon and, thus, had no memories from Earth-Prime when he absolutely should?

Its like you don't remember your Post-Crisis life. 

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My thoughts (probably) tomorrow, but that was a really nice episode (plus: westallen ❤️). The ending is intriguing, curious if we'll get to see the other side of that mirror next episode.

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34 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Not only that, but Cisco's dumb line about not remembering owning a Superman shirt? But he should have TWO sets of memories pre and post-Crisis. So why did they make it seem like Cisco was a Paragon and, thus, had no memories from Earth-Prime when he absolutely should?

What's more, according to Black Siren over on Arrow, Cisco invented a device that mimics J'onn's ability to restore the pre-Crisis memories to anyone it's used on. So yes, he should definitely have both sets of memories.

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6 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

What's more, according to Black Siren over on Arrow, Cisco invented a device that mimics J'onn's ability to restore the pre-Crisis memories to anyone it's used on. So yes, he should definitely have both sets of memories.

He may invent that later...I dunno how long after the funeral it was before she jumped to the future

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1 hour ago, scarynikki12 said:

Spooky ending. I legit jumped when those silver arms grabbed Iris. Looking forward to seeing the rest. 

Me too! I thought she'd get sucked in but then when the phone rang and she turned around I thought we'd just see something she didn't and she'd learn something else from that direction.

I liked Cisco's emotions in that scene where with Caitlin. I mean, I'd feel guilt too if I could have prevented the deaths of infinite people. But he can't go! He's my favorite! (usually) And when Winn left we didn't see him again for a year and a half. I don't trust this.

Look, costumers, the leather shirts are doing nothing to hide Danielle's pregnancy. Throw a chunky sweater on her. Frost's vest was better.

I'm glad they stated the extrapolators will no longer work. It makes sense, since they were originally invented to go between the multiverse. 

I thought everyone was pretty well utilized and in character. I didn't realize until I rewatched the opening credits now (so pretty!) that Ralph was missing. 

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1 hour ago, Lantern7 said:

Hey, we got a map of Earth-Prime from Cisco! I thought that only the Paragons knew what happened prior to Crisis. I guess he got a visit from J'onn J'onzz: M'edicine M'ann. I didn't expect Gotham City to be that far west. Metropolis is near the NYC aream while National City is on the other side of the country. Freeland is in the south, probably in Georgia (I saw a reference earlier this season). And Gorilla City is on Earth-Prime!

Yeah, don't even get me started on this.   A long time ago, Metropolis was near the Great Lakes, which would explain a certain guy from Smallville, Kansas wanting to move to "The Big City".  Gotham was on the East Coast (It "is" named after Gotham Jewelers in NYC).  Then The Big M moved to the East Coast and became an "additional" version of NYC (because the Big Apple clearly still exists in DC world) that resides in Delaware (???) with Gotham becoming an additional version of Newark.  (and it, too, resides in Jersey)  Now, Arrow-Verse is claiming that Gotham is by "The Lakes"?????  MY HEAD HURTS!!!!

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1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

Not only that, but Cisco's dumb line about not remembering owning a Superman shirt? But he should have TWO sets of memories pre and post-Crisis. So why did they make it seem like Cisco was a Paragon and, thus, had no memories from Earth-Prime when he absolutely should?

I've been debating that for days now how some heroes who were not Paragons, like Black Lightning and Arrow-Verse Superman, are acting like they remember the worlds before they merged (OMG!!  Superman exists........... is something I should NOT be saying on my show after the merge.)  ("Wait, I have HOW MANY kids, Lois??")

Oh well, just remember folks.  Comic books (and the Hollywood shows and movies that are created) are just meant to be "dumb fun", and, much like the ancient mythological stories, are not truly meant to be taken COMPLETELY serious.

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New universe, new title sequence! This was a good return to the post crisis world, it set up a lot of good stuff for this season while also dealing with Crisis pretty well. 

Cisco dealing with his grief and guilt over Crisis was well done, and I always like when they give Carlos some real meaty stuff, especially when it doesent involve his random "I hate my powers" stuff, a plot that I have always hated, and have continued to hate. I mean, yeah his powers would have been super useful in the times before Crisis, so I can see why he would feel so guilty. It wasnt actually his fault of course, there was only so much he could have done, but its still a hard pill to swallow, especially after losing so many people, both in the abstract and people he was close to like poor Harry. I am also glad that they mentioned Jessie and Harry dying along with their world, and Cisco being the one most hurt by the seeming death of not only Harry, who he was close to, but also the other Wells's he got to know on the Council of Wells. I hope he isnt gone long though, a few episodes at the very most. 

Also still dealing with Crisis is Barry, who is still grieving Oliver's death. Love seeing Dig, and he and Barry both trying to process Oliver dying was well done if sad (I am still not over it damn it!) and I am glad that it really was Oliver trying to leave Barry a last souvenir, and not some overly convoluted maguffin thing. Barry even got to do some science stuff! I will also never get tired of Diggs absolute discomfort with Barry's powers, it just cracks me up. "...its a twenty hour plane ride..." *Downs bottle of pills* We also got a few nice Barry/Iris moments, and some more follow up with Iris's feelings for Crisis and everything after it, thank goodness. 

Love that we are finally capitalizing on Iris as a badass reporter! She and her crew were a lot of fun together, and I really liked her talk with Joe, it was very much needed. If Iris is going to go up against this powerful scary people, she needs to be more careful. Not giving up, but going in with a plan, and then a backup plan or two! Plus, its just great to see them together having a chat again, its been way too long. 

I assume that Ralph was just off doing detective stuff, but I hope he didnt somehow get wiped out of existence post crisis! Obviously it would be temporary, but when someone isnt mentioned after a multiverse crisis, you can get concerned.

Well that ending was creepy. Oh snap, they found the Mirror Universe! Goatees for everyone! 

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2 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

So....if you were part of the original E2....you are kind of just forgotten in this universe? Didnt get merged? No Prime versions running around?

Honestly, I was really confused by this. I don't watch Arrow, so I just read about E2 being destroyed by anti-matter, but when they showed that Star Girl is on E2 at the end of Crisis, I assumed that it was restored and everyone that died was brought back like Earth Prime and everywhere else. I didn't realize until now that so many people didn't come back in Oliver's new multi-verse, including Harry and Jesse.

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

However...is Cisco now gone? It felt like a goodbye for the rest of the season (at least until the finale). I know I thought that Cisco was making his departure last season...but this one legit had a goodbye-for-now vibe. Not that I'd be surprised if he came back in two-three episodes...

Read a post show interview with the showrunner and he said that it wasn't a goodbye to Cisco and he won't be gone long, so maybe an episode or two tops.

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10 minutes ago, colorbars said:

Honestly, I was really confused by this. I don't watch Arrow, so I just read about E2 being destroyed by anti-matter, but when they showed that Star Girl is on E2 at the end of Crisis, I assumed that it was restored and everyone that died was brought back like Earth Prime and everywhere else. I didn't realize until now that so many people didn't come back in Oliver's new multi-verse, including Harry and Jesse.

Read a post show interview with the showrunner and he said that it wasn't a goodbye to Cisco and he won't be gone long, so maybe an episode or two tops.

Star Girls E2 is a new E2, all the old Earths were wiped out with new ones popping up in their place. 

Jesse should return but with a totally new origin that doesnt have Wells as her father. But of course we are stuck with the worst Wells there is....Nash who was useless as Pariah (like dude...everyone watched Earths die..you did NOTHING)

But I am glad that they talked about frequencies being off and thus cant just vibe wherever. It had become way to easy. 

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Oh wow, we're finally getting that "Iris West-Allen Show" the haters complain about!

So much exposition. Necessary, I guess

LOL at Jitters immediately getting attacked! But I'm glad to see that place again.

Earth-2 was one of the best things they introduced on this show, so it's just stupid that they're just discarding the parallel dimension they've got the closest ties to. Yes, I know everything merged, but then they make a point to say everyone Team Flash knows is gone but versions of other people are here. Everyone loves Earth-2! I don't get it.

Cisco leaving, while Frost, Caitlin, and The Most Irrelevant Wells Yet get to hang around and be useless is just a crime. And yes, Cisco, of course you would have detected Crisis with your powers. That's why Plot Force made you give them up.

But other than all that, everything else with Cisco was good. Gonna have to freeze frame through his meta-binder and new Earth-Prime boards. Cool that we got the actual Japanese Dr. Light.

Barry and Diggle's side plot was nice; even though it was obviously there because Grant was busy filming the crossover. It was good to have Diggle here and not just for a punchline or exposition.

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But on to Iris; this was a GREAT episode for her!

Reporter Iris! They didn't have to do this every episode, but look how interesting and action-packed her actually doing her job can be. We could have had this for years, but showrunners want to waste time with Tom doing funny accents and convoluted dual personality backstories.

Anyway, this was a good setup for the Black Hole arc. Seems like it will definitely be Iris' story. Literally gasped  at that last scene!

I thought Team Citizen worked well here too; although Allegra didn't do much. And when was the last time we had four women interacting in a scene on this show??

Liked that she got a little scene with Diggle, and a scene with Joe. It's been a while since we've had a good father-daughter conversation. Sweet WestAllen loft scene at the end. I've missed those!

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Apart from a rather biased and misleading headline (Who exactly stopped the crisis?  Sure wasn't just the Flash, or even mostly the Flash) Iris had a good episode.  See show, it isn't that hard to let her have her own plot lines that will tie into the rest of the show eventually.  

Not sure why Cisco apologized to the guy that let the anti-monitor out.  Nothing Cisco said changed just because Cisco also was feeling guilty over chucking his powers (as he probably should, way to drop the ball for the team and the world, lol)

5 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Not only that, but Cisco's dumb line about not remembering owning a Superman shirt? But he should have TWO sets of memories pre and post-Crisis. So why did they make it seem like Cisco was a Paragon and, thus, had no memories from Earth-Prime when he absolutely should?

I really wish the show runners had gotten together and agreed on the rules of how this stuff works after crisis.  No, Cisco should not have forgotten he owned a Superman shirt and if E2 is gone, then the Harry holo should have vanished.  If we are lucky then the Harry holo is a clue to the fact that despite what Cisco believes, there are still multi verses.  I mean we know there are per Crisis so maybe it's just taking time for people to figure it out.  

5 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

Wow they really did Diggle dirty. Flash writers really suck writing other characters. 

The Flash writers just plain don't know Oliver's character.  Oliver was more sentimental and sappy than any of the characters IMO.  And Diggle would have known that even if just from toasting him a final time with the vodka that Oliver sentimentally saved for such occasions down in the Arrow bunker.    

Then there's the hood his first mentor wore that he incorporated it into his first costume which Felicity knew to save it and reuse when Cisco reworked his costume since it had special meaning to him (Cisco had that line)  He saved a hoizen (arrowhead like thing) that he found on the island that had a lot of connections to people he lost on the island to his sister as a symbol of reconnection in like the first or second episode of the episode and it came up even in the backdoor pilot  for his daughter years later.  He has obsessed over the color of the pen Felicity was chewing on when they first met.  In the end, he waited for 20 fricken years for Felicity in a room that looked like his mom's old office complete with all the family pictures because just because it was where he'd first even seen a GLIMPSE of his future wife.  This guy brought a hold trunk back full of souvenirs from his time on the island but he's not sentimental?  

Giving Barry the mask was very in keeping with his personality.  Oliver has been about tokens that have special meaning to him throughout the show.  

I have to pretend that Diggle was being sarcastic when he said Oliver wasn't sentimental but he said it in such a dry manner that it went over Barry's head.  Lol.  

2 hours ago, colorbars said:

Honestly, I was really confused by this. I don't watch Arrow, so I just read about E2 being destroyed by anti-matter, but when they showed that Star Girl is on E2 at the end of Crisis, I assumed that it was restored and everyone that died was brought back like Earth Prime and everywhere else. I didn't realize until now that so many people didn't come back in Oliver's new multi-verse, including Harry and Jesse.

 

I feel like out just about all of the other earths, E2 is one Oliver would have brought back since he spent time connecting with people on that earth before it vanished before his eyes.  So I'm not convinced the Star Girl E2 doesn't also have some version of all the E2 people we'd met before. Its just Earth Prime people haven't figured it out.  Wouldn't it be handy if Cisco hadn't gotten rid of his powers?  He'd already know this.  

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So, apparently the biggest change for The Flash post-Crisis is the new opening credit sequence!  Honestly, it was pretty neat, I thought.

Won't lie: totally loved the opening act with Jitters relaunching, only to get robbed again and Barry quickly disposing those fools.  The show really is at its best when it allows these more "everyday" crime stuff, instead of the main arcs which can devolve into a lot of angst.  That said, the highlight was easily the barista all "Seriously?!  We just reopen and we are already getting robbed?  This city sucks!  Also, maybe next time wait till we actually have enough sales to warrant robbing us, dipshits!"

Iris and Team Citizen was fun.  Curious to see what is really going on with this Black Hole organization (especially after that final scene), and them using their handy reporting skills to take it to the baddies.  I am glad that Joe told Iris to slow down though, because, yeah, it's going to take more than a day/episode to bring out a scheming, evil organization that has apparently been operating in the shadows for over seven years.

Glad that Cisco is paying attention to these new potential threats due to Crisis, but he is leaving, again?  Is this another case of Carlos Valdes needing time off?  I still kind of worry that he eventually is going to leave for good.

Despite Grant Gustin and David Ramsey's best efforts, I was kind of underwhelmed by Barry and Diggle's stuff.  Mainly because it really felt rushed and it just felt wrong seeing Diggle; someone who was close with Oliver to the point they considered each other brothers pretty much; have to keep his feelings in check to give Barry another pep talk.  Poor Diggle has to be shoulder for everyone to cry on, it seems.  Still well-acted though.

I guess Ralph is still doing his P.I. stuff?

Looks like Nash is looking for his version of Jesse Quick now.  It just sucks that Harry and original Jesse were apparently victims of the Crisis.

But that ending though?  Another universe?  The work of a Mirror Master?  Can't wait!

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6 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Cisco dealing with his grief and guilt over Crisis was well done, and I always like when they give Carlos some real meaty stuff,

He really sold it... He usually does... Still not really sure why he ditched his powers if I'm honest.. I mean other than the plot(s) now and in the future need him to not be powered... 

 

3 hours ago, Trini said:

thought Team Citizen worked well here too; although Allegra didn't do much. And when was the last time we had four women interacting in a scene on this show??

Four???...  We barely get two for any extended amount of time.. Usually its just Iris making ppl feel better while she deals with whatever she's got going on by herself... What this really underscores is how glaring it is that we can't seem to get the two women who've been day ones to appear in scenes together.. I stated earlier... Iris gets her arm chewed up by Evil Dr. Light and they scream get Frost and the next scene is frost talking to Cisco... Magically Iris is healed... This is getting to Good Wife territory.. Wildly noticeable. 

 

2 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Won't lie: totally loved the opening act with Jitters relaunching, only to get robbed again and Barry quickly disposing those fools.  The show really is at its best when it allows these more "everyday" crime stuff

Does show that the inhabitants of this world in general and Jitters specifically are way too used to it.. Loved the barista ( is that the same barista that Chester had the crush on?)  Reminding the dummy they just opened and didn't have much cash... And how common it was to have Flash come and save them... You'd think by now.. Especially in this new more superhero aware reality criminals in CC would know that Jitters is off limits. 

 

2 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

it just felt wrong seeing Diggle; someone who was close with Oliver to the point they considered each other brothers pretty much; have to keep his feelings in check to give Barry another pep talk.  Poor Diggle has to be shoulder for everyone to cry on, it seems.  Still well-acted though.

Well you know us blk folks have an unending well of intestinal fortitude forever at the ready when some white character is having a moment and needs a crutch... Facetious but true.. Tho on these arrowverse shows it does get switched around at times.. Its still more slanted towards POC holding up their white counterparts.... I mean that was 80 percent of what iris did pre crisis... I guess it's not like that on legends.. But that's cuz that show is well... The wave rider has a definite color palette now

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Loved Jitter waitress to start with like "seriously we *just* opened, no money dirt for brains!" The new opening was good, I think that more shows are going back to longer sequences. 

Cisco should definitely remember both timeslines since he isn't a paragon and presumably got his memories back from J'onn. And then instantly made something to give everyone else dual memories for storyline and practical purposes. 

5 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

The Flash writers just plain don't know Oliver's character.  Oliver was more sentimental and sappy than any of the characters IMO.  And Diggle would have known that even if just from toasting him a final time with the vodka that Oliver sentimentally saved for such occasions down in the Arrow bunker.    

Yeah, even with the SP I was certain it was going to be a goodbye/remember me sentimental gift, he's sappier than anyone, even in S1 of Arrow, he just hides it better than others. Dig should definitely know that but then we wouldn't have a side adventure for them. It was ok, not fantastic but ok filler for GG. I l enjoyed that Dig came prepared with anti nausea pills. Speaking of "Flash Stops Crisis" is a very...….incomplete headline.

Team Citizen was good though and it is nice to see so many female characters interacting on this show.  I like that they're being positioned as something allied to but separate from Team Flash. All the "reporter's drive!" and "a reporters territory not a RICO investigation" was a little heavy handed and outdated but I'm here for it. 

Yay Iris has a big storyline, a POV and agency! Wow. And they "explained" why she had absolutely none of these when her husband was about to die. And I agree with everyone that ending was really creepy. The Blackhole set up is interesting so far. And Iris and Joe and yes you need plans A-Z when confronting a big powerful corporation let alone one with extra supervillainy to hide.

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The multiverse is not gone. Earth-2 was recreated. Harry and Jesse weren't wiped out of existence which is why Cisco can listen to Harry's message like he's always been a part of his life. That's something he's going to figure out the moment he gets his powers back at the end of his journey of self-discovery. That's my prediction.

Loved the Iris plot. This is how I always pictured a reporter storyline to look like. Iris meeting up with sources. Asking people to leave quotes for her articles. Piecing things together and getting into dangerous situations because of her reporter drive and hunger to expose the truth. I'll have to read up on the Mirror World. I don't know what to expect from the cliffhanger.

Kamilla put her photographer skills to good use. Cecile relied on her brain and legal knowledge in addition to her meta powers. She told Iris the bad guy was going to sue and he did. Allegra showed concern for Iris' well-being. I really loved Team Citizen in this episode.

A new version of Doctor Light!

Jitters is back! That guy tries to rob some place every season. No Ralph going up against him this time.

This was light on Barry but I liked how they approached his grief over Oliver's death. He was desperate to see a mystery where there wasn't one because going on a wild goose chase was easier than dealing with the fact that Oliver was gone and the mask was nothing more than a sentimental gift from a friend.

I hope both Barry and Iris can slow down and really enjoy some couple time together.

Note to the director. I don't care about Oliver's mask. I'd like to see the Barry and Iris kisses instead.

I swear Eric Wallace keeps trolling me. It doesn't matter how many times you have Iris repeat that she was making the most out of the time she and Barry had left. I know what show I have been watching. She didn't even want to go to Tahiti because according to her they had too much work to do. Eric thinks that if I listen to Iris repeat that Barry had totally prepared her for Crisis and that they had totally made the most out of their time together I am going to get hypnotized and accept it as the truth. Nope. WestAllen was sidelined after they dropped the Crisis bomb on the team. No amount of lies is going to change that. I liked the conversation Iris had with Joe. That part made sense even though they didn't show Joe try to solve as many cases as possible before Crisis hit.

Nash is going to be the leader now? Whatever. His Pariah arc made no sense. He didn't pay or suffer because of Crisis. That may be true in the comics but the show did a horrible job with the character.

I won't dwell on the plot holes and who remembers what. The various showrunners should have agreed on following the same rules.

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7 minutes ago, Starry said:

Note to the director. I don't care about Oliver's mask. I'd like to see the Barry and Iris kisses instead.

I swear they treat their romance like they treated gay romance in the early aughts... A quick close mouthed smash kiss and then we face out.. Its so noticeable its weird... Like  is something up.. 

 

10 minutes ago, Starry said:

WestAllen was sidelined after they dropped the Crisis bomb on the team. No amount of lies is going to change that. I liked the conversation Iris had with Joe. That part made sense even though they didn't show Joe try to solve as many cases as possible before Crisis hit.

Preach...  

 

10 minutes ago, Starry said:

won't dwell on the plot holes and who remembers what. The various showrunners should have agreed on following the same rules.

They still have some time to iron it out.. And I bet that next season for all the shows will be more in sync... What this does show is how big of a logistical task it was/ is to get all these shows to sink up before and after crisis... 

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37 minutes ago, Starry said:

The multiverse is not gone. Earth-2 was recreated. Harry and Jesse weren't wiped out of existence which is why Cisco can listen to Harry's message like he's always been a part of his life. That's something he's going to figure out the moment he gets his powers back at the end of his journey of self-discovery. That's my prediction.

 

I explained above that the Harry message shouldn't exist on Earth Prime. Cisco was talking as if Harry and Jesse don't exist on Earth Prime. Right now, they all believe Earth Prime is the only earth. Therefore, in this post crisis world, Harry and Jesse never came to Cisco's earth. So that message should not exist period. Harry and Jesse could very well be alive on the new Earth 2. It still doesn't change that in this universe, Cisco or anyone else should not have anything from them.

Edited by BeautifulFlower
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23 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

The new earth 2 will never be connected to the CW shows though. 

Never say "never" because that's what the show runners of Black Lightning said; that their show would never be part of the Arrowverse, until it was.

I guess it was an okay episode. I mean, I like that Iris is finally being shown to be the journalist she is, but I found her to be reckless at times, which made no sense. Until the end when she told Barry why, which also, made no sense, because up until Crisis, she was NOT acting each day was her last. But, whatever.

I actually enjoyed the scenes with Diggle and Barry. I admit I don't know what/how this show "did Diggle dirty." 

And while Cisco NOT KNOWING how he ended up being a fan of Supes, and getting that awesome t-shirt, I LOVED that he was wearing it! And I laughed at his shock? anger? confusion? at not remembering. And THAT didn't make sense, because he should only remember post-Crisis stuff; even if he used J'onn's memory thingamajig, he would have two sets of memories.

And here's my final thought--and let me preface it by saying I think Candice is a beautiful woman, with or without make-up. So, when she passed the mirror and recalled what her source had said about the mirror---she didn't have make-up on, and her hair was all bundled up, and she was in sweats. But what does she do when she realizes she needs to head back to McCulloch's? After writing that note to Barry? She apparently had time to fix her hair and put on make-up, change clothes to head there.

But yeah. I knew something would happen to Iris at the end. 

Edited by GHScorpiosRule
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16 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Never say "never" because that's what the show runners of Black Lightning said; that their show would never be part of the Arrowverse, until it was.

And Stargirl will always be a DC Universe project. Just because it airs on the CW doesnt mean its suddenly part of the Arrowverse. The whole setup of E2 also seems quite different to what Arrowverse portrayed. 

They could have easily mention that E2 characters are still alive. But regarding Jessie i think the issue would be her availability. Since the actress is busy with her own show.

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I think I could go a good long while without hearing the word "crisis" again.

When exactly are Barry and Iris supposed to conceive Nora? They are hardly together. Or is Nora not gonna happen now?

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13 minutes ago, Writing Wrongs said:

When exactly are Barry and Iris supposed to conceive Nora? They are hardly together. Or is Nora not gonna happen now?

Crisis moving forward by five years changed the timeline so that Nora doesn't exist for now. They used her to do a kid from the future plot without having to commit to a pregnancy timeline. Or one kid or twins etc. 

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I actually enjoyed the scenes with Diggle and Barry. I admit I don't know what/how this show "did Diggle dirty." 

What most frustrated me about that storyline was Dig saying "Oliver learned life wasn't all about the mission too late." He'd retired to a cabin in the woods and was with his wife and 2 month old when The Monitor came to collect on his deal. He tried to retire several times before that. And the next sentence Dig actually points out Oliver died so everyone (EVERYONE) else could live. 

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2 hours ago, Starry said:

Note to the director. I don't care about Oliver's mask. I'd like to see the Barry and Iris kisses instead.

They were 90% of the way to a perfect scene, then they ruined it! 😂  I hope the mask goes to the same place as McSnurtle.

 

Quote

Nash is going to be the leader now? Whatever. His Pariah arc made no sense. He didn't pay or suffer because of Crisis. That may be true in the comics but the show did a horrible job with the character.

Still annoyed by this. Considering that they actually made him Pariah, he did the least. Such a waste of time.

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What was up with that headline? "The Flash returns" - from where? His hour-long trip to Oliver`s funeral? To all the normal people, he didn`t go anywhere. "Stops Crisis" - cue montage of Kara, Jonn, Sara, Ryan Choi, Kate Kane and even Lex Luthor look at that headline and snort. While the Spectre goes "that`s why I send you the crime wave, ha" in his pocket dimension.

The new storyline for Iris looks interesting, better villains than Bloodwork hopefully though that is not a high bar to clear. 

Why isn`t Nash a, pardon the pun, pariah to the team? And why is he still acting so smug and entitled? 

The Barry/Dig sideplot had some nice moments but it seemed kind of weird.  

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3 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

I swear they treat their romance like they treated gay romance in the early aughts... A quick close mouthed smash kiss and then we face out.. Its so noticeable its weird... Like  is something up..

The kiss wasn't close mouthed but they really made sure we didn't see anything. I think your comparison makes sense. On that note, I saw someone on social media point out that it's not a coincidence that the highest rated show on the network doesn't have one gay romance.

Two words about the article. The Flash is Central City's hero which is why the headline is so biased. But I think they just wanted to do a parallel/contrast with the original headline about Flash vanishing in Crisis. The other heroes and Oliver's sacrifice are still acknowledged in the actual article.

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7 minutes ago, Starry said:

But I think they just wanted to do a parallel/contrast with the original headline about Flash vanishing in Crisis.

I mean, I would have preferred the original headline, but certain people in charge didn't think that story was important, so....

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4 hours ago, Starry said:

The multiverse is not gone. Earth-2 was recreated. Harry and Jesse weren't wiped out of existence which is why Cisco can listen to Harry's message like he's always been a part of his life. That's something he's going to figure out the moment he gets his powers back at the end of his journey of self-discovery. That's my prediction.

Stargirl is introducing its own version of The JSA, which I belive includes Jay Garrick and if it goes on long enough, most likely Jesse Quick/Liberty Bell so their E2 will be extremely different.

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14 hours ago, Trini said:

But other than all that, everything else with Cisco was good. Gonna have to freeze frame through his meta-binder and new Earth-Prime boards. 

He made an actual rogues gallery! 

18 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

So why did they make it seem like Cisco was a Paragon and, thus, had no memories from Earth-Prime when he absolutely should?

I was writing to say this could make sense if they writers had given his powers back, but no. No it could not. They're wrong in all ways.

Edited by bettername2come
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Not that I knew anything about DC cities related to a real life map, but at least they had Gotham and Metropolis very far apart (I am assuming Gotham's being around Chicago is a nod to shooting there) instead of the movies where you can see a Bat signal from Metropolis.  National City is close to L.A. and Star City is close to...Portland or Seattle? Where does Central City end up?

I did like the opening titles and I am hoping post Crisis, some characters get some interesting resets that will make them less dull.  

 

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4 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

Why isn`t Nash a, pardon the pun, pariah to the team? And why is he still acting so smug and entitled? 

Every Wells so far has been smug and entitled. There hasn't been much range to any of them. I think I am one of the few that doesn't really consider Tom Cavanaugh a gift to this show, so much as a curse.

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10 minutes ago, mtlchick said:

Star City is close to...Portland or Seattle? Where does Central City end up?

I feel like they've always implied Starling is in the Pacific Northwest, so I'm glad they've kept it like that. Central City is supposedly 600 miles away, at least it was.

Edited by bettername2come
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32 minutes ago, shantown said:

Every Wells so far has been smug and entitled. There hasn't been much range to any of them. I think I am one of the few that doesn't really consider Tom Cavanaugh a gift to this show, so much as a curse.

Smug and entitled worked wonderfully when he was Thawne/Reverse Flash. Because then the character played a serious role and was taken seriously. The revolving door of Wells` now is just comic relief.  

I did like the scene where Cisco took him to task and it clearly hit a nerve with him. Kinda ruined at the end when Cisco apologized despite being 100 % in the right. I know the Flash has a certain goof factor but it wouldn`t IMO hurt them to play certain things a bit more seriously. It could have been a good opportunity to break out of the circle of comic relief Wells and give this post-crisis version a different reaction. Give him survivor`s guilt in light of what he caused, play it serious and have him honestly try to make amends and gain the respect of the team.

Minus the latter part, they are given that role to Cisco who didn`t actually cause the crisis to come about. Sigh. I`m all for giving Cisco something meaty to do and certainly if the actor needed to be freed up, there would have been ways but that story should have gone to Wells and something else for Cisco.

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14 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

The Flash writers just plain don't know Oliver's character.  Oliver was more sentimental and sappy than any of the characters IMO.  And Diggle would have known that even if just from toasting him a final time with the vodka that Oliver sentimentally saved for such occasions down in the Arrow bunker.   rs?  He'd already know this.  

The Flash writers don't know any of the Arrow characters. I suspect that there is a reddit thread (because reddit notoriously has a very biased view) that they read instead of actually watching the show.

6 hours ago, Featherhat said:

What most frustrated me about that storyline was Dig saying "Oliver learned life wasn't all about the mission too late." He'd retired to a cabin in the woods and was with his wife and 2 month old when The Monitor came to collect on his deal.

And Oliver would have had five years there with his family except for someone changing the timeline again.

9 hours ago, Starry said:

Note to the director. I don't care about Oliver's mask. I'd like to see the Barry and Iris kisses instead.

I suspect that's planned, not the director's individual choice. The Flash is the 'verse show that parents watch with their sons and kisses are icky.  One day Iris will announce that she is pregnant but you won't see it in the making.

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22 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

It feels like they know we think they don't talk and are trolling us.

They are trolling us; I'm convinced of it.

20 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

It wasnt actually his fault of course, there was only so much he could have done,

It wasn't Cisco's fault, but he's known since season 1 that a crisis was coming in 2024. He could have held off giving up his powers until then since the cure wasn't going away.  And it became even more important once the timeline moved up. Oh well, hindsight.

16 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Apart from a rather biased and misleading headline (Who exactly stopped the crisis? 

Who stopped crisis? Oliver, Barry, Lex, Kara, J'onn, Sara, Kate, and Ryan. Since the Flash is CC's hero and Oliver has already been lionized nationally by the US president, it makes sense to give CC's hero credit in the headline since that's who the city knows and loves.

13 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

What this really underscores is how glaring it is that we can't seem to get the two women who've been day ones to appear in scenes together.. I stated earlier... Iris gets her arm chewed up by Evil Dr. Light and they scream get Frost and the next scene is frost talking to Cisco... Magically Iris is healed... This is getting to Good Wife territory.. Wildly noticeable. 

It's been noticeable since season 5 onward.  I doubt it will change.

22 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

That was fun, though I wonder if that would be toned down if we get Lois Lane on a weekly basis like we might in 2020-2021.

If Iris' agency and reporting is lessened because of Lois Lane, that's bigotry, pure and simple.

 

22 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

Danielle is looking real pregnant.. I wonder how/if they'll write it in.

I'm convinced DP will give birth on set just so she can say she's never missed an episode.

Edited by adora721
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3 hours ago, mtlchick said:

... Where does Central City end up?

Previously, it's been a few hours drive (or less?) from Starling City; I don't think that has changed. Establishing shots show it's supposed to be a coastal city.

 

3 hours ago, shantown said:

Every Wells so far has been smug and entitled. There hasn't been much range to any of them. I think I am one of the few that doesn't really consider Tom Cavanaugh a gift to this show, so much as a curse.

He was fine the first few seasons. Then they turned the revolving door of Wellses into a joke and ran it into the ground. I think Tom is good as an actor, but his schtick here as Whatever-version-of-Wells has gotten repetitive.

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Note to Iris #1: You might want to hold off on telling the evil, murderous, secret organization you're on to them until you get a lot more solid evidence to back up your suspicions.

Note to Iris #2: When secretly rummaging through someone else's office in the dead of night you might like to not make it difficult for yourself to put things back like you were never there. I mean, how were you going to redrape that big honkin' mirror when you were readying to leave, especially if you had to leave in a hurry?

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I don't quite understand why there would even be a headline saying "Crisis Averted." Was everyone aware that there was some kind of multiversal crisis in the first place? Do they all remember this big wave hit and then apparently they were perfectly fine afterwards (because they wouldn't realize that the world had changed)? How would that be newsworthy?

"Oh, you remember that big red wave that just came and went and apparently didn't do anything? This article says it was some big end of the world event that got stopped by the Flash."

"Whew! Guess we dodged that bullet. Could you pass me the sports section?"

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