S17.E10: The North Pole

[thewhiteowl]

Gibbs and the team assist Ziva with "the one thing" she needs to take care of before returning to see her family.

[secnarf]

Not gonna lie, my mind was blown by that twist. I didn't see it coming at all.

From the minute Adam said "you know her", I was *convinced* Odette was Sahar. I was so focused on that, that I was frustrated it was taking the characters so long to reach that conclusion. Sarah never even occurred to me. I hadn't been suspicious of her since the beginning - when we initially met them, when Phineas said "I told you not to tell my mom, she gets really mad" it sent up red flags for me, and never seemed to track with the behaviour that we saw from her. Throughout the subsequent episodes I always remembered how incongruent it was, but accepted what we were shown and it didn't seem like there was anything more to it.

I don't think NCIS has ever blindsided me like that before, and I have been watching from the beginning. Did anybody see that coming?

Edited December 18, 2019 by secnarf

[Reddust]

I was completely caught off guard too.  I wonder if the boy is Ziva's nephew. How long has it been since her brother died?

[NYGirl]

I didn't either!  I was like OMG when he said her son is Phineas.  I was even shocked at the beginning when they said she was still alive.  I thought she was killed in that previous episode.

I thought she'd come into play some time in the future but not this way at all.

Edited December 18, 2019 by NYGirl

[MDL]

I agree  Secnarf. Blindsided here as well. I also thought Odette was going to be Sahar, and as the hour dwindled to a few minutes, that idea made no sense. But I never suspected Phinn's mother  would turn out to be the baddie. I think back to how many people on this site were saying "I hope she's not a new love interest for Gibbs". Well, she wasn't.

As I said, blindsided, and didn't see that coming.

I liked the "callback" to Ziva shooting Ari, with the "on the stairs"position of Gibbs when he shot Sahar. Not subtle, but effective.

Edited December 18, 2019 by MDL

[Packerbrewerbadger]

I have been very frustrated with this the last few years , weak plots, poor writing, and not of a fan of the new characters.  Only memorable show was when Jimmy talked guy off ledge.  But tonight felt more like the NCIS of old , and I gasped at Big reveal!  

[enoughcats]

32 minutes ago, secnarf said:

I don't think NCIS has ever blindsided me like that before, and I have been watching from the beginning. Did anybody see that coming?

It bothered me a lot when a neighbor happens to move next door to Gibbs and nobody investigates.  Sort of on the same level as Ellie gets a date with an un-investigated man, when the female shrink happens to have a daughter whose identity is unknown.  
When there are people with pretty high security clearances who have people wander into their lives and have NO investigations done......  I remember when I had friends going into certain parts of our government, and I had an hour of questioning from guys in black suits with credentials and the questions were as deep as they could be.   The lack of investigations really have bothered me for this show for several years.

16 minutes ago, NYGirl said:

when he said her son is Phineas.

Hell.  I thought that was a set up.  Why would the guy even know if she had a kid, much less the kid's name.  I thought that was going to be a trap leading to a cliff hanger.  

[secnarf]

43 minutes ago, Reddust said:

I was completely caught off guard too.  I wonder if the boy is Ziva's nephew. How long has it been since her brother died?

They said a few times in this episode that it had been 14 years. I don't think Phineas is quite that old, but they could stretch it if they want to.

36 minutes ago, MDL said:

I liked the "callback" to Ziva shooting Ari, with the "on the stairs"position of Gibbs when he shot Sahar. Not subtle, but effective.
 

No, not subtle at all - the shot hit Sarah in the same place as Ari's did (just mirror image I think) and Sarah made the same "ugh" noise as Ari did when he was shot. The cinematography was very similar as well. I agree it was effective, but I think it would have been more effective if it was a little more subtle rather than hitting us over the head with it. My head had already exploded. It didn't need an anvil dropped on it, too.

[kazza]

22 minutes ago, enoughcats said:

Hell.  I thought that was a set up.  Why would the guy even know if she had a kid, much less the kid's name.  I thought that was going to be a trap leading to a cliff hanger.  

I was worried he was going to say "Tali" and imply she had been kidnapped. 

"I'm all eardrums."

Pictures of DiNozzo with Tali!

I feel like it's not over with Phineas. He knows too much. 

What exactly is Jack's purpose on this show?

Are they looking to spinoff Bishop with Odette?

Overall a satisfying episode. 

[scorpio1031]

I knew it!  I knew mom was up to something, but didn't know what.  It also surprised me that mom would let kid get close to neighbor guy who probably has the highest insurance rates on the block.

[valen]

Holy crap. I too thought it would be Odette. I got it when he said “pretend waitress.” I noticed her terrible waitress outfit from the last episode. We watched them back to back tonight, which helped. Phineas is 9. They mentioned it in the video game episode. He’s definitely not Ari’s. 
 

The writing on this show has suffered over the years, but tonight? Tonight was an instant classic. Poor Phineas.

[preeya]

2 hours ago, kazza said:

I feel like it's not over with Phineas. He knows too much. 

It can't be over, that's the hook. What happens to Phineas?

Gibbs is too old to adopt him, and did he, "Jethro Gibbs," tell him that he was the one who shot and killed his Mom?????

[twoods]

Just wow with the twist. I was also expecting Sahar to be Odette and kept yelling at Ziva not to trust her. Poor kid losing both of his parents. I wonder what will happen to him, or if he’s going to get all vengeful on Gibbs since he’s a smart kid and would be someone to run some underground organization to bring down the guy that killed his mom.

I hope we see more of Odette now that she’s training Ellie. I really like her.

[brgjoe]

I definitely thought the person was Odette too.  Pretend to befriend and help Ziva only to keep close tabs on what she was doing.  That Sarah/Sahar twist I did not see coming.  Sure, I thought there was more to her than meets the eye.  Didn't think she would wind up being that terrorist mastermind, however.

Poor Ziva's fighting skills seem to have been diminished.  Earlier some out of shape dude got the best of her.  Then Terrorist Mom defeated her fairly easily in this episode.  And you just knew when she gave that "Bond Villain" speech that she would eventually die.  Either by Ziva or Gibbs.  Giving long rambling Bond speeches rarely end well for the perp.

I actually thought Phineas was also in on it.  Like he was an spykid/actor put there to get close to Gibbs.  That has to be one awkward conversation Gibbs is about to have with him.

"Sorry I put a bullet in your mom's head.  But hey, the sink works now!  Merry Christmas, kid!"  😉

[mertensia]

That was a well-done surprise. I, too was thinking it was Odette.

[Slider]

Phinn is totally Ari's kid.  They put too much emphasis on the 14 years stuff.  The kid is probably 12-13, and Sahara probably didn't know she was pregnant yet, so you can add 9 months to Phinn's age and it comes out just right.

[meira.hand]

checked the episode again and my comment was a mistake but delete not allowed

Edited December 18, 2019 by meira.hand

[Aliconehead]

I kept thinking it was the Israeli doctor that was involved with Ari before his death so when it was Sarah, they got me. 

[valen]

In the episode where Phineas helped on the video game case, he told the team that he was nine years old. He's too young to be Ari's, although that would have been another nice twist.

[HurricaneVal]

I'm a wee bit tired of mysterious and wonderful Ziva, and I say that as someone who never really had a huge problem with the character.  This broken Ziva is annoying, and I keep waiting for the Gibbs!slap upside the head.

That said, this was a fantastic episode.  Whatever happens now, I really enjoy the Gibbs relationship with Phineas.  And, well done, show.  Well done.  There was always that awkwardness between Gibbs and Sarah, but it could come from anywhere...wary single mom, worried about this older neighbor and her son...potential sexual attraction...Gibbs's natural paranoia...witness protection backstory.....  All that and more.  Sarah seemed to be pulling Phineas away from Gibbs more than she was using him as a tool, so she was playing the long game.  There was one little clue, right at the beginning, that the writers dropped, and the actors played it well.  That was the scene at the leaking sink where Gibbs notices that Sarah has a cut on her hand, and she gets weird about it (because she got it beating up on Adam), and says there were some sharp edges when the faucet broke, and Gibbs gave her an odd look like he knew she was lying.  The writers just dropped that clue, and never really returned to it.

Well played.

[12catcrazy]

So another person here who didn't see that twist coming.  I thought it was Odette also but it didn't make sense when you thought about it (talk about playing a really long con) but other than her, I had no clue who else it could be.  Kind of mind blowing that an international terrorist couldn't figure out how to turn off the master water valve though.  

And I was thinking that maybe Phineas' father was Ari also.  Wonder what is going to happen with the kid?

[eel21788]

16 hours ago, secnarf said:

Not gonna lie, my mind was blown by that twist. I didn't see it coming at all.

The beginning scene at the sink, when I noticed her hair wasn't red any more, I was pretty convinced she was a spy ala the storyline with Vance's physical therapy buddy turning out to be a spy.

[MDL]

I was so blown away by the "twist" that I forgot to ask: What, if anything, did the North Pole have to do with the story?

Usually the title of the episode at least obliquely relates to something in  the story. What did I miss?

[laredhead]

There was a sign in the warehouse that said "North", and the pole was the support post holding up the upper floor.  Took me a while, but I finally made the connection, when Ziva began to kick the post hoping the upper floor would fall on Sahara (Sarah) and kill her.

 

[jerseyflower]

I have to think that Phineus knows more than he's letting on as he would likely have been prompted to befriend Gibbs, instructed to leave his laptop at his house etc. I doubt she would just leave it all to chance. 

Edited December 19, 2019 by jerseyflower

[transitfan]

Put me down as one of the ones that was blown away by the reveal.  And I agree that Phineas is too young to be Ari's son.  I'm trying to recall, didn't Sahar/Sarah mention something about a custody battle with her (presumed) ex?  And I think Phineas mentioned something about staying with his father.  So apparently at some time, Sarah/Sahar was with a amn who was not Ari and had a son (I doubt that a kid of Phineas' age could carry off a story about that, i.e., S/S was doing a long game, but he wasn't).  So I suspect S/S came to the US at some point to start the long game to get Ziva (who was working with NCIS at this point), and along the way met a man (either by design or not) and had Phineas (again, either by design or not).

 

I feel bad for Gibbs, knowning that he is going to have to tell Phineas something that will shatter him.  For all of S/S murderous intentions toward Ziva, she seemed at least to be a loving, if strict Mom.  It will be interesting to see how this plays out.  If the father really exists, he now would have sole custody, obviously Phineas is too young to be emacipated (sp?) if he really doesn't want to live with his father.  Should be interesting.

[MDL]

4 hours ago, laredhead said:

There was a sign in the warehouse that said "North", and the pole was the support post holding up the upper floor.  Took me a while, but I finally made the connection, when Ziva began to kick the post hoping the upper floor would fall on Sahara (Sarah) and kill her.

Thank you. Now that you explained it, I remember the pole, and the sign.

[HurricaneVal]

2 hours ago, transitfan said:

I feel bad for Gibbs, knowning that he is going to have to tell Phineas something that will shatter him. 

The look on Mark Harmon's face, in that last scene where Gibbs is preparing to go upstairs to presumably tell Phineas his mom is dead, shattered me. 

Will Gibbs tell the kid that he killed the mom?  That's bound to come out sometime.

[ForReal]

On 12/18/2019 at 8:53 AM, Aliconehead said:

I kept thinking it was the Israeli doctor that was involved with Ari before his death so when it was Sarah, they got me. 

I thought the same thing and was waiting for Ziva to remember her. 

I wonder the boy's father really is around. I don't remember Phineas talking about him (although he may well have), I just remember the mom saying she had to go see him to deal with custody issues, which was probably a lie. I don't want to think Phineas was helping her in anyway, he'd have to be a hardened little criminal himself to fake his enjoyment of his friendship with Gibbs.

[basiltherat]

Phineas must have been coached to say "JethroGibbs" so Mommie Dearest could record all their conversations and have it be understood by her minions.  

I also was flummoxed by the twist ending -- I am rarely fooled, but this show did it!  I also should have noticed that Sarah is an anagram for Sahar!

[WendyM]

On 12/17/2019 at 9:01 PM, secnarf said:

Not gonna lie, my mind was blown by that twist. I didn't see it coming at all.

From the minute Adam said "you know her", I was *convinced* Odette was Sahar. I was so focused on that, that I was frustrated it was taking the characters so long to reach that conclusion. Sarah never even occurred to me. I hadn't been suspicious of her since the beginning - when we initially met them, when Phineas said "I told you not to tell my mom, she gets really mad" it sent up red flags for me, and never seemed to track with the behaviour that we saw from her. Throughout the subsequent episodes I always remembered how incongruent it was, but accepted what we were shown and it didn't seem like there was anything more to it.

I don't think NCIS has ever blindsided me like that before, and I have been watching from the beginning. Did anybody see that coming?

I actually gasped, and I haven't gasped at ANYTHING this show has done in like...forever. And I also took it personally because usually I can see the "twist" coming from a mile away. A woman Ziva knows? It HAS to be Odette! I also kept waiting for the team to catch up with my awesome detective work. I actually turned to Mr. Wendy and said, "It's a she, and there's only one other she and it can't be Bishop, right?"

And they've inserted Sarah and Phineas into so many non-Ziva episodes, I didn't even question the sink-fixing thing. Argh! Clearly, I'm taking this personally, lol.

I do wonder who Phineas' father is. I don't think he can be Ari (unless Ari knew it would be an important Plot Point and banked some just in case). But it has to be someone interesting so Ziva can stick around. Right?

I'm meh on Ziva in general, and the fact that she needs handkerchief-wrapped Valium or Ativan to cope with life or whatever is making me like her just a little bit. She'll need it when she finds out what Tony's been up to in another time slot. (Not the show itself; just the sexual harassment part.)

[enoughcats]

Is Phineas a spy?

[Ebau]

On 12/19/2019 at 3:09 PM, basiltherat said:

I also should have noticed that Sarah is an anagram for Sahar!

Now that was a good catch, Basiltherat! I didn't put that one together a'tall! Well done, you!

[One hundred Bob]

Just a note that in Hebrew, Phineas means “the mouth of a snake”. In a culture that used children as weapons, I’m sure that the Phineas story will not end here. Ari’s seed will bloom. 

[juzorny]

i just realize Gibbs weakness are boys and Phinneous was raised by Sahar whose only goal is to get Ziva, and they are basically in the same room now, i think Gibbs just like the last time will be vulnerable and get shot by Phinneous, or Ziva just like 14 years ago will shoot another to save Gibbs only this time it is somebody close to Gibbs. at the end its either Gibbs die or Ziva dies or Phinneous dies 

[mythoughtis]

Ellie is a NCIS agent... why does she want to get involved with Odette?