S15.E07 Last Call

[sarthaz]

11 minutes ago, Bessie said:

I'm starting to believe that Castiel is trying to kill Sam and has been doing so for years. Kidding, mostly. But I can see an ending, where Sam is dead and Dean is left with Castiel. 

And a young blonde walks by and says, "I'm looking for the AARP office. Do you kind old gentlemen know my grandpa?" [SERIES ENDS]

[gonzosgirrl]

40 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Eileen was totally game but I don`t think Sam was into it. I guess this aborted romance sideplot will lead nowhere fast as well. 

I still think it's endgame, and they think they are being clever with the maybe-coitus interruptis to build up anticipation for the big event. And in a series ending twist, Sam will be the one who dies after having sex.

[SueB]

5 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I still think it's endgame, and they think they are being clever with the maybe-coitus interruptis to build up anticipation for the big event. And in a series ending twist, Sam will be the one who dies after having sex.

I think Sam was about to tell Eileen that God has a personal grudge against San Winchester and any ‘romantic interest’ is likely to be fridged the second Chuck finds out about it. And when she says she’s okay with it, he’ll say she can’t do that to him. She can’t put another death on his head (doh! There’s a naughty pun in there). 

[ILoveReading]

I think Sam was leaning in to kiss her.  That's how it seemed to me.

[gonzosgirrl]

11 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I think Sam was leaning in to kiss her.  That's how it seemed to me.

Me too.

[Jynnan tonnix]

5 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

I think Sam was leaning in to kiss her.  That's how it seemed to me.

It looked more to me as though he was taking her hand in preparation of letting her know that he wasn't going to take the relationship further, for whatever reason. Maybe it was meant to look as though he was going to kiss her, but if it was, that's still not the impression that it gave me. It looked more like a conciliatory gesture than a romantic one to my eye.

As far as Dean's  killing the monster with whatever he found hanging on the wall (I seem to remember the camera panning around the room to show some random tools hanging there), it also looked as though he came through the door with some sort of blade in his hand, though I may just have imagined it. If there had been another handy weapon, it seems as though it would be brought into the fight.

Anyway, decent episode, and nice to have something Dean-centric for a change. And damn, he looked good in it! The singing had me grinning like a fool! They did harmonize really well.

Edited December 6, 2019 by Jynnan tonnix

[catrox14]

2 hours ago, Hana Chan said:

ean is still in a funk and not seeing the value of everything that he has done as a hunter, so we need another story to show Dean that he is so very special. The roadhouse seemed designed to indulge Dean's ego at every level. Hot girl really into him - check. Old best buddie that knows Dean so very well - check. A place for him to drink and rough house without judgement - check. I kind of rolled my eyes at a lot of it because we've been down this road with Dean before.

I remember back before Dean was only allowed to be attached to Sam and/or Cas, that women hit on Dean alot. And Dean looks like Jensen. So why wouldn't he be hit on?  I loved the cop at the beginning. That guy was hilarious. And he was not wrong about Dean having the look to be in Hollywood. I think it's about damn time the show stop pretending that Dean isn't good looking guy. I mean, objectively, Dean is a really really really really ridiculously good looking guy, even if one is not necessarily attracted to him.  

Dean got to have buddy from when Sam was at college who remembers the old days and their bar fights and hunting trips. I don't see how that equates to an ego trip for Dean. The writer didn't let Dean have that esteem for long though, because Dean said he remembers John telling him Lee was the best fighter he'd ever seen. So I don't see that as stroking Dean's ego either, especially about something that involved Dean's competency as a fighter, even as I thought that said a lot about John's treatment of Dean.

In general, I didn't hate this episode. Eileen being so protective of Sam was interesting but it felt a bit much and a bit fast. I kind of feel bad for Eileen because she she has basically been throwing herself at Sam since the before they killed her off, and Sam just seems to ignore it or not encouraging her but not stopping her either. Its a weird way to build this romance. I suppose if Eileen is supposed to be Sam's end game relationship they don't have much time to build the love affair so they have to make her be that way. Meh.

I thought that monster was supposed to look a bit like the demons from the show "Angel" which I enjoyed as a huge "Angel" fan

I'm wondering if somehow Dean killing Lee is going to come back to bite Dean. Not a spoiler, just a spec,  could Dean end up in prison at the end of the show? Hmmmm.

[Bessie]

7 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

The writer didn't let Dean have that esteem for long though, because Dean said he remembers John telling him Lee was the best fighter he'd ever seen. So I don't see that as stroking Dean's ego either, especially about something that involved Dean's competency as a fighter, even as I thought that said a lot about John's treatment of Dean.

For me, that played into why I thought chuck might be behind it. I already knew lee was the bad guy, so when I heard that anvil, I knew Dean was gonna kick his ass at some point. 

And, really show. John issues? Thought we were done with that. There’s more to Dean than “daddy issues.”  Explore some of that!

[BabySpinach]

I'll just add that, among all of CW's shows, one thing that Supernatural still stands a cut above on are the fight scenes. Most of them (usually Dean's) are well-choreographed and performed and still carry a real sense of grit and grounded reality. His tussle with Lee was really dynamic and fun to watch. First the bar shootout, then using things around them as improvised weapons, both of them gaining the upper hand at different points. It was the best part of the episode (after the singing, of course!). The editing could have been a bit less frantic, admittedly, but it was all still coherent.

[Bobcatkitten]

Can I just say if someone uses the "peen of death" reference I will laugh in joy. 

[Bessie]

21 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Its a weird way to build this romance.

I think Sam was just about to let her down gently, when castiel broke in to kill him. ; )

Edited December 6, 2019 by Bessie

[Aeryn13]

10 minutes ago, BabySpinach said:

I'll just add that, among all of CW's shows, one thing that Supernatural still stands a cut above on are the fight scenes. Most of them (usually Dean's) are well-choreographed and performed and still carry a real sense of grit and grounded reality. His tussle with Lee was really dynamic and fun to watch. First the bar shootout, then using things around them as improvised weapons, both of them gaining the upper hand at different points. It was the best part of the episode (after the singing, of course!). The editing could have been a bit less frantic, admittedly, but it was all still coherent.

Haha, I always though that overall SPN was the worst CW shows in terms of fight scenes. Sure, the odd one here and there is good, usually with Dean, but overall meh. Of course these days Flash and Supergirl have ludicrously bad action scenes, Legacies makes me giggles, even Legends is so-so and Arrow isn`t what it used to be either though it still stands head and shoulers above the rest.

This one between Dean and Lee, I actually liked. It wasn`t the best but I know Christian Kane is a competent stunt-fight-person and so is Jensen which makes it look better. They didn`t really need that many cuts for it.   

@catrox14

Quote

I remember back before Dean was only allowed to be attached to Sam and/or Cas, that women hit on Dean alot. And Dean looks like Jensen. So why wouldn't he be hit on?  I loved the cop at the beginning. That guy was hilarious. And he was not wrong about Dean having the look to be in Hollywood. I think it's about damn time the show stop pretending that Dean isn't good looking guy. I mean, objectively, Dean is a really really really really ridiculously good looking guy, even if one is not necessarily attracted to him.  

Dean got to have buddy from when Sam was at college who remembers the old days and their bar fights and hunting trips. I don't see how that equates to an ego trip for Dean. 

Me neiher. I mean this was one part of one episode, not everything of everything single episode so I think it was not too much to give Dean something for a change.

I`m sure the writer is getting tarred and feathered for it as we speak.

With the John thing, I actually was more amused that Lee seems to have been the one person in the Northern hemisphere John didn`t piss off.

Also, you had to know something was up with Lee because retired or not, he knew nothing about the Winchesters, the supposed Legends among Legends in the hunting world.  

Edited December 6, 2019 by Aeryn13

[Bobcatkitten]

Supernatural fight scenes are better to me because they are realistic - just regular people fighting and no fancy kicks and martial arts like the superhero shows. 

[Aeryn13]

5 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

Supernatural fight scenes are better to me because they are realistic - just regular people fighting and no fancy kicks and martial arts like the superhero shows. 

I love the martial arts if they are well done. Which usually happens when the actors in question are martial artists in real life and can actually do these moves. 

As John was a Marine, it makes no sense that the brothers can only do brawling. They should have some training in hand-to-hand combat in terms of stylized moves and blocks. Like bearded!John-Wick-Dean in that vision. Not ultra-fancy but clearly more than mere brawling. 

Edited December 6, 2019 by Aeryn13

[gonzosgirrl]

3 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

Supernatural fight scenes are better to me because they are realistic - just regular people fighting and no fancy kicks and martial arts like the superhero shows. 

Literally a bar room brawl last night. And he actually hit Jensen with that pool cue, so yeah, realistic indeed!

[ahrtee]

14 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

As John was a Marine, it makes no sense that the brothers can only do brawling. They should have some training in hand-to-hand combat in terms of stylized moves and blocks. Like bearded!John-Wick-Dean in that vision. Not ultra-fancy but clearly more than mere brawling.

Or like Demon!Dean fighting/playing with his food with Cole (with his "My name is Inigo Montoya" line--one of my favorite scenes in the whole show!)  As they made a point of saying, Dean was not possessed, so that was all Dean, and all his own skills.  That's why it always annoys me when one of them is down and, instead of taking the initiative to roll, block or sweep the bad guy's feet out, they cringe back and wait to be saved.  

OTOH, I get the feeling Dean actually *enjoys* an all-out brawl, especially in bar fights.  He doesn't want too big an advantage when it's just other humans.  

Edited December 6, 2019 by ahrtee

[AnimeMania]

15 hours ago, patty1h said:

What was the creature that Christian Kane had caged up, and what was he getting from it - I missed that explanation.  Thanks.

"It's called a Marid. It's a freaky-looking little thing isn't it? As long as you feed it, it gives you money, it gives you health, it gives you everything you ever dreamed of."

https://supernatural.fandom.com/wiki/Marid

13 hours ago, KayCordingly said:

- However, Wifey & I LOVED Jenson singing! I was like "G.O.B.? What the heck.... OMG it's the Dukes of Hazzard song!"

G.O.B.?  = Good Ol' Boys

[Bali]

2 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I do love that Dean is still 100% done with Castiel's bullshit. I wonder if they'll ever tell him that Sam's most recent brush with death was Cas's fault.

I hope not because I really don't care to waste an entire episode on Dean dealing with that. And I know that they would. Dean would stand there, doing his best with 5 or 6 whole words in the script. And Sam stammering to make it seem like he has more words. And Cas standing there like a lump. Meanwhile, Eileen is signing, "Who wrote this garbage?" in the background, but the subtitles say something like, "But we need to go fight God because I'm suddenly not dead. And honestly, who stays dead anymore anyway? And oh by the way, you might find this interesting, right before I came back, there was some redhead saying she was the new Queen of Hell."

Oh wait, I do want that last line. So, she isn't signing that.

[ahrtee]

7 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

"It's called a Marid. It's a freaky-looking little thing isn't it? As long as you feed it, it gives you money, it gives you health, it gives you everything you ever dreamed of."

https://supernatural.fandom.com/wiki/Marid

It's kind of sad that the best thing Lee could ever imagine is just a run down bar in Texas.  (And that Dean seemed to agree with it, considering his dream world was also to own a bar.)  Is that some meta comment on the Family Business brewery? 

However, if Lee's been feeding it for over a decade, how come no one (especially other hunters) ever noticed any disappearances?  And if he was careful just to take drifters or people who wouldn't be missed, why take one of his regulars (from a small town where everyone knew everyone) now?

Edited December 6, 2019 by ahrtee
Grammar

[Bali]

7 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

It's kind of sad that the best thing Lee could ever imagine is just a run down bar in Texas.  (And that Dean seemed to agree with it, considering his dream world was also to own a bar.)  Is that some meta comment on the Family Business brewery? 

However, if Lee's been feeding it for over a decade, how come no one (especially other hunters) ever noticed any disappearances?  And if he was careful just to take drifters or people who wouldn't be missed, why take one of his regulars (from a small town where everyone knew everyone) now?

I can see Lee only wanting a small bar in a remote place. He wanted a quieter life. And being too successful would really bring attention.

Why he took a regular? The sheriff said that regular was always talking about leaving town. So, he could nab her and everyone would just think she left. OR he took a regular because the big blaring plot hole made him do it.

[ILoveReading]

I've always said Jensen was the leader on set and off.  I love when it gets confirmed

[Castiels Cat]

37 minutes ago, Bali said:

I can see Lee only wanting a small bar in a remote place. He wanted a quieter life. And being too successful would really bring attention.

Why he took a regular? The sheriff said that regular was always talking about leaving town. So, he could nab her and everyone would just think she left. OR he took a regular because the big blaring plot hole made him do it.

It looked like a very special Chuck motw to me because Dean killed a "brother" that went dark. So nothing was a coincidence in the set-up in my opinion. We are supposed to intuit Chuck's hand... Even the killstroke was reminiscent of the previous kill scene from Sam's dream in which Demon Dean kills Sam. And that final dialogue was horrible although Jensen managed to deliver it well.

[Castiels Cat]

2 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I still think it's endgame, and they think they are being clever with the maybe-coitus interruptis to build up anticipation for the big event. And in a series ending twist, Sam will be the one who dies after having sex.

I think he was into it too albeit surprised she was so direct and horny.

[Castiels Cat]

3 hours ago, SueB said:

Well I enjoyed that!

Funniest line: “Ew!” By Eileen, in response to their’s a piece of Sam in Chuck.  Well played.  And SO accurate.

I don’t think Chuck had anything to do with this episode.  Because Chuck doesn’t want Dean at full strength.  Which worries me.... what is Chuck doing?  

Sam & Eileen:  we had a moment there.  I like her, I like how he appears to feel with her.  I don’t expect long term happiness for Sam but I like them as a couple.  Giggle moment - So Sam has no problem with real bacon...hmmmmm...I call smitten!  Dean was right about Sam/Eileen.  And I think Dean had every intention of taking Sam on the case and bugged out on his own as soon as he saw the bacon.  He’s so Team!Sam - I took his comment about the smell to be a call out to Dean’s belief that sleeping with someone who smells like good food is a bonus.  

Dean & Lee:  I thought Lee was the perfect foil for Dean.  And if using a literary foil to give the hero motivation is passé to some?  It doesn’t bother me.  I thought it was solid story telling.  Lee was too much party and not enough morality.  Lee also didn’t have John Freakin’ Winchester to keep him moving forward.  John WAS too hard on Dean but having a partner is a good way to avoid going down a wrong path.  Lee slipped into a self-delusional morality that I don’t think is in Dean’s nature to do but there are plenty of ways to ‘check out’ when traumatized.  John’s presence helped Dean move forward after what was apparently a horrifying hunt in Arizona. Lee obviously said ‘f*ck it, I’m going to party and hurting a few people is justified after the good I’ve done’. He was, theoretically, Dean but with a warped moral compass.  Before it went south, I enjoyed their reminiscing.  And I enjoyed the utter confidence with which Dean demonstrated how far he had come as a hunter and a human since he had last seen Lee.  Lee gave a good fight but this was Dean Freaking Winchester and Lee was sloppy after dealing with civilians. 

Cas & Sergei: I’m SO glad Cas had the upper hand when Sergei pulled his inevitable betrayal.  I also loved Cas’ little smile when Eileen when into BadAss mode.  Memo to Cas: don’t use the word ‘probe’.  No one likes that word when it comes to their own body.  

Dean & Cas: Well THAT’s still a mess.

I’m going to rewatch later and do ‘shout-out’ bingo.  I think I must have picked up on a DOZEN different in-universe and BTS items.  

Overall a good episode.  I’ll be rewatching soon.  

I think Dean killing a "brother" who had gone darkside and turned into a monster was too on point not to be Chuck's work. Furthermore more the deathstroke scene was strongly reminiscent of Chuck's staging of demon Dean's killing of Sam from 15:3. And the dialogue Dean and Lee utters during the kill was oh so Chuck. 

Granted Dean was Dean at the end when he had to live. That's pretty much been the case in every motw we have seen... albeit more this time. Something about Lee and remembering John reawakened Dean's mojo. As I have been saying Dean is the one character that Chuck cannot completely control with his scenarios. He goes off script. It's probably the quality that attracted Chuck's interest and more recently his ire.

As far as Sam saying Chuck is weak. Everything Sam saw in 15:7 is what we have already seen. We have known Chuck is weak since Amara said so in 15:2. It didn't stop him from writing after he saw Becky. It just means that the writing is worse than usual apparently. It also means he isn't as powerful so he sends Lilith to do his dirty work.

I will be interested in your bingo list. I agree it was a good episode as far as this season goes.

[Castiels Cat]

4 hours ago, Hana Chan said:

The whole conceit that Dean would give up his cell phone and keep him completely out of contact with Sam and Cas for the duration of his case was beyond stupid. The idea that he could end up needing help and have no way to call for backup was ridiculous. Not to mention knowing that he and Sam had a huge fish to fry and if Sam discovered something critical, he had no way of reaching Dean.

I have no issue with Dean letting his hair down and wanting to have a bit of fun, but it frustrates me that when the show has him do that they have to have him throw his common sense out the window. That he wouldn't keep a second phone on him for emergencies just really strains credulity. 

More evidence that it was plotted by Chuck. It. Defies.Credulity. Dean just wouldn't behave this way under the circumstances because things could go code red at any time with Lilith and Chuck and lord knows what demons are still around ... and Michael could be out there too... 

[gonzosgirrl]

IDGAFF about people who don't think Dean should be able to sing. I did love that Dean sings in a lower register than Jensen, just like Dean speaks in a lower register than Jensen. Awesome.

9 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

 I also loved Cas’ little smile when Eileen when into BadAss mode.

This reminded me - how, exactly, did little Eileen hold this fairly big guy up against the wall by the throat? Did I miss something there? (A distinct possibility)

[Castiels Cat]

5 hours ago, Hana Chan said:

Not a bad episode in that it was entertaining (and I can think of a lot worst ways to kill an hour), but it wasn't anything new and we didn't really learn anything important.

While I enjoyed Dean's storyline (again strictly for the entertainment value), it did feel very predictable and, as Castiels Cat put it, paint-by-numbers. Dean is still in a funk and not seeing the value of everything that he has done as a hunter, so we need another story to show Dean that he is so very special. The roadhouse seemed designed to indulge Dean's ego at every level. Hot girl really into him - check. Old best buddie that knows Dean so very well - check. A place for him to drink and rough house without judgement - check. I kind of rolled my eyes at a lot of it because we've been down this road with Dean before.

The case wasn't at all surprising and the whole thing was just designed to reinvigorate Dean's passion for hunting. Presenting Dean with a peer who gave up on hunting because he didn't see the point and ended up becoming a "monster" himself was a little too on the nose, but if it finally shakes Dean out of his mopes, then it served its purpose. 

And seriously... Cas nearly kills Sam, calls in a healer to make it worse. *bangs head on keyboard* On the plus side, Cas did fix things and managed to find the right leverage to get the healer to solve the problem but again, really really predictable. And it gave Jared very little to do this week except lay there looking like a 6 foot 5 Sleeping Beauty. 

The one good thing that came out of this is that we 1) learned the exact nature of Sam's wound and the part it may play going forward and 2) that the boys now know what the audience already did. That Chuck is weak and vulnerable. 

So not the worst episode by far, but hardly the best. And it reminds me that I really don't have a lot of interest in things when the boys are seperated. They really are at their best together.

Swayze always gets a pass. Dean got to live out a fantasy by playing a roadhouse bouncer and rescuing a lady in distress, ironically something demon Dean did as well.

They should have sung Eye of the Tiger or had Dean song it in the junkyard before he finds the car.

The episode put Dean back in the game. It told us nothing new about Sam or Chuck. Cas is still withholding things from Dean and nearly killed Sam so Dean is correct to question his judgment. Eileen is spunky. The key to Death's library is interesting and since Michael is in the next episode all together they suggest that Dean's dire predicted fate may be still in play. I think Chuck is still writing. Dean's adventure has all of the hallmarks of a very special lesson for Dean culminating in Dean killing someone he once considered a brother for going darkside and becoming a monster in a badly written death scene that looked a lot like the kill scene Chuck wrote for Demon Dean and Sam. 

Chuck may have decided he prefers noble Dean killing his evil brother for the angst factor and the similarity to what Dean refused to do twice previously. 

[Castiels Cat]

15 hours ago, Myrelle said:

There were weapons hanging on the wall that were focused on, but they cut to a commercial instead of letting us see Dean in all of his Glorious Badassity-same as Gamble did back in S6. 

I would give my eye teeth to have seen Dean taking out those monsters, but can't have that on this show, can we?

Maybe on Jensen's next project...*fingers crossed*...

Ah. I missed that. I confess they lost my full attention after the snake ate it's tale and Jack ate Dean's storyline. If they don't care enough to remember their own plotlines why should I give them my full attention.

[tennisgurl]

The whole plot with Sam dying was basically a waste of time to tell us stuff we already know, so lets just focus on Dean being awesome and the Jenson and Christian Kane karaoke night! That was a great plot, making this one of my favorite episodes of the season so far, and finally giving Dean the plot that he deserves. Dean kicking ass! Dean having fun! Dean singing! Dean reaffirming his mission, that he will keep trying to save people and make the world better no matter how crappy things are! 

Its awesome seeing Christian Kane on my TV again, and he and Jensen worked great together (and sounded great!) both as old buddies and then fighting to the bittersweet end. I was so happy that Dean could have a friend who seemed to really like him and be happy to hang with him, so of course he had to turn out to be evil and Dean had to kill him. Dean just cant have nice things! But as disappointed as I was that Lee turned out to be the bad guy, I did like him as a sort of dark reflection on Dean and his despair that Chuck has been manipulating everything all along and is now planning on killing everything and everyone, and that everything sucks so why bother trying to make it better and just give into the darkness and despair and be swallowed by it, and how Dean realized how unhelpful that attitude he was slipping into was. Like he said, he cares because someone has to. And the "I kill monsters" line was super badass. Its great to see Dean being competent and the badass we all know and love, and not made a joke or to look like second fiddle next to Sam. 

I continue to suspect that Chuck isnt the really for real God, and that God is locked up somewhere and they will let him/her/whatever out to stop Chuck while also saving the universe. 

[Wynne88]

2 hours ago, ahrtee said:

That's why it always annoys me when one of them is down and, instead of taking the initiative to roll, block or sweep the bad guy's feet out, they cringe back and wait to be saved.  

Yes, and it happens way too often.

2 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

However, Wifey & I LOVED Jenson singing!

To me, it was Jensen singing, not Dean.  That, along with the Supernatural crew band, made it seem like they were giving them all their moment to shine with their real talents since according to Jensen, Kripke told him that Dean can't sing.  Trying to mesh the Supernatural show with the actors' real lives just irritates me (even though I do enjoy Jensen's singing).  

Another thing that bugged me was Castiel saying he had his friend 'Bobby' hanging out with Sergei's niece or daughter (whoever she was).  I'm assuming he meant AU Bobby although I don't remember him actually being his friend. I really hate the idea that they totally ignore AU Bobby and AU Charlie's existence except for when they need a 'friend' who just happens to be available (but invisible and not worth mentioning in idle conversation). 

And finally, like everyone else, I'm sick and tired of sick and dying Sam.  Apparently the most important thing about the character is that he is constantly sick or otherwise incapacitated.  He can't fight worth a darn anymore - he's the worst of the two about cringing back and waiting to be saved.  Admittedly he can read directions well enough to do Rowena's spellwork, but it doesn't take a lot of tallent to follow a recipe.  He can also give supposedly motivating speeches that are based on nothing but his faith they can win.  He is simply boring (and I hate to say and see that, since I have always been a fan, even when he did stupid things).

Amazingly enough, I did enjoy the episode when I simply watched for entertainment and didn't think too hard.  And then I come here, and read the comments by people who watched it more critically, and suddenly all the stuff I glossed over comes crashing in.  

[gonzosgirrl]

23 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Its great to see Dean being competent and the badass we all know and love, and not made a joke or to look like second fiddle next to Sam. 

Jensen, Christian and Jeremy Adams (the episode's writer). It's a reminder how tall Jensen really is when not standing next to a moose. 😄

ETA the photo for those who don't do twitter.

EaTA: Did they cut the sleeves off of Dean's red shirt of doom?

Edited December 6, 2019 by gonzosgirrl

[PAForrest]

6 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Its awesome seeing Christian Kane on my TV again, and he and Jensen worked great together (and sounded great!) both as old buddies and then fighting to the bittersweet end. I was so happy that Dean could have a friend who seemed to really like him and be happy to hang with him, so of course he had to turn out to be evil and Dean had to kill him. Dean just cant have nice things! But as disappointed as I was that Lee turned out to be the bad guy, I did like him as a sort of dark reflection on Dean and his despair that Chuck has been manipulating everything all along and is now planning on killing everything and everyone, and that everything sucks so why bother trying to make it better and just give into the darkness and despair and be swallowed by it, and how Dean realized how unhelpful that attitude he was slipping into was. Like he said, he cares because someone has to. And the "I kill monsters" line was super badass. Its great to see Dean being competent and the badass we all know and love, and not made a joke or to look like second fiddle next to Sam.

I think you're right, a "dark reflection" was exactly who Lee was supposed to be, and he worked very well in that capacity. Up until the turn, which yes was not unexpected - though I also thought the waitress was suspicious too - I honestly thought we were getting a glimpse of the possible endgame for both Dean and Sam. Sam ending up with Eileen as a LI, and Dean opening a bar of his own, ala Nihilism - which is an ending I can see Jensen hating for Dean, as he despised the whole retirement shtick in season six.

But then we saw Dean wake up and get back to his badass self, because he's that guy, and it was glorious! Of course, since none of the writers talk to each other and Dabb has his own bad soap opera ideas, there's still a good chance retirement is in Dean's future, sad as that may be.

However, even though I know Dean is likely to get drop-kicked back to the sidelines by the next writer, and the writer after that, etc., I will relish the badassery we got in this episode, written by a guy who clearly loves and gets Dean Winchester. Thank you, Jeremy!

And Christian was dynamite as Lee. The chemistry between he and Jensen was off the chart! I'd watch a whole buddy show with these two actors/characters. So sad he was a one-off. No, Dean Winchester cannot have nice things.

The whole "Sam realizes Chuck is weak, d'uh!" plot was a whole lot of unnecessary filler, but I did laugh out loud when it turned out that Castiel is the one who almost killed Sam. ROTFLMAO!!!!!!

[tennisgurl]

2 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

This reminded me - how, exactly, did little Eileen hold this fairly big guy up against the wall by the throat? Did I miss something there? (A distinct possibility)

Did her coming back to life give her some extra powers of some kind? Super strength or something? 

So what do we have to do to get a whole episode of Jensen and Christian just having a concert? 

[FlickChick]

6 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

I mean this was one part of one episode, not everything of everything single episode so I think it was not too much to give Dean something for a change.

I`m sure the writer is getting tarred and feathered for it as we speak.

Yeah, his first episode. We know that the writers don't interact with one another and no one oversees anything, but I'm sure he'll be forced to toe the line like Meredith Glynn had to do going forward. So sadly, this will probably be the last BAMF Dean we'll see in Supernatural. So I'm going to re-watch (the Dean part) and enjoy. Re: Dean singing well, I can't make up my mind if the new writer didn't know "Dean can't sing well" or he left it up to Jensen and Jensen said fuck it, if these writers keep changing canon, so can I and sang it like he wanted to. And it was a thing of beauty!!!

[PAForrest]

16 minutes ago, FlickChick said:

Yeah, his first episode. We know that the writers don't interact with one another and no one oversees anything, but I'm sure he'll be forced to toe the line like Meredith Glynn had to do going forward. So sadly, this will probably be the last BAMF Dean we'll see in Supernatural. So I'm going to re-watch (the Dean part) and enjoy. Re: Dean singing well, I can't make up my mind if the new writer didn't know "Dean can't sing well" or he left it up to Jensen and Jensen said fuck it, if these writers keep changing canon, so can I and sang it like he wanted to. And it was a thing of beauty!!!

I do think Jensen is in zero fucks to give mode. He wanted to have fun, he had fun, period. He also wanted to showcase his friend's talents, so it really wasn't all about himself.

And the whole Dean can't sing thing is bogus anyway. Even when Jensen was trying not to sing well, he could still sing just fine. And the general audience who aren't part of the online fandom, who don't know or care what Kripke wrote in a margin on a script practically a lifetime ago, seriously don't know the difference anyway.

Thing of beauty, yes it was!

Edited December 6, 2019 by PAForrest

[SueB]

6 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

Haha, I always though that overall SPN was the worst CW shows in terms of fight scenes. Sure, the odd one here and there is good, usually with Dean, but overall meh. Of course these days Flash and Supergirl have ludicrously bad action scenes, Legacies makes me giggles, even Legends is so-so and Arrow isn`t what it used to be either though it still stands head and shoulers above the rest.

This one between Dean and Lee, I actually liked. It wasn`t the best but I know Christian Kane is a competent stunt-fight-person and so is Jensen which makes it look better. They didn`t really need that many cuts for it.   

@catrox14

Me neiher. I mean this was one part of one episode, not everything of everything single episode so I think it was not too much to give Dean something for a change.

I`m sure the writer is getting tarred and feathered for it as we speak.

With the John thing, I actually was more amused that Lee seems to have been the one person in the Northern hemisphere John didn`t piss off.

Also, you had to know something was up with Lee because retired or not, he knew nothing about the Winchesters, the supposed Legends among Legends in the hunting world.  

Not that I can see.  At least not in his comments.  I haven’t done an exhaustive search for his mentions.  
 

Jeremy is such an obvious fan of the show, I think his enthusiasm is on par with Robbie Thompson.  

Edited December 6, 2019 by SueB

[bethy]

I’m about to start the episode on the CW app and the photo for the episode is literally Eileen wiping Sam’s apparently fevered brow. 😂

Reminded me of this:

[ILoveReading]

1 hour ago, FlickChick said:

Re: Dean singing well, I can't make up my mind if the new writer didn't know "Dean can't sing well" or he left it up to Jensen and Jensen said fuck it,

1 hour ago, PAForrest said:

I do think Jensen is in zero fucks to give mode. He wanted to have fun, he had fun, period. He also wanted to showcase his friend's talents, so it really wasn't all about himself.

This is what I think as well.  The background band was a made up of crew members, and we know how Jensen feels about the crew.  These was their real life band, he was wasn't going to make them sound bad by singing off key.  If it was all actors he might have made a different choice (although I like to think he would have went with the zero fucks options).

He's gotten to so much more confident in this singing. I'm glad he went full out.  I don't care if its in character or not.  I'm glad Jensen got a chance to shine as along with Dean in this ep. 

I didn't even mind the "Dean learns a lesson" aspect because it was a conclusion Dean came to himself rather than being subject to another lecture by Cas and/or Sam.

[PAForrest]

29 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I didn't even mind the "Dean learns a lesson" aspect because it was a conclusion Dean came to himself rather than being subject to another lecture by Cas and/or Sam.

Exactly, no one condescendingly lectured Dean to suck it up. I'm fine with lessons Dean learns on his own - though this was more of an awakening, which again is better realized when one comes to it him or herself.

I was relieved Lee wasn't some djinn dream, and even happier that Dean saved his own damn ass, as he's been known to do for most of the series life.

Because he's Dean Freaking Winchester, as Lee said. This is the guy we should be getting all the time.

Edited December 7, 2019 by PAForrest

[Myrelle]

28 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

This is what I think as well.  The background band was a made up of crew members, and we know how Jensen feels about the crew.  These was their real life band, he was wasn't going to make them sound bad by singing off key.  If it was all actors he might have made a different choice (although I like to think he would have went with the zero fucks options).

He's gotten to so much more confident in this singing. I'm glad he went full out.  I don't care if its in character or not.  I'm glad Jensen got a chance to shine as along with Dean in this ep. 

I didn't even mind the "Dean learns a lesson" aspect because it was a conclusion Dean came to himself rather than being subject to another lecture by Cas and/or Sam.

All of this ×10,000.

This was one of only a handful of episodes that truly resonated with me in the last few years of this show.

That little scene where Dean and Lee discussed John was so loaded, but mainly because of Dean's face  and his facial expressions during the entire exchange. His father = so many  varied and mixed emotions for Dean and Jensen conveys that so beautifully.

I still have so many feelings about the John and Dean relationship.

I could discuss it for years. It's so rich and complex. And I love how Jensen and JDM portrayed it.

I only wish that we'd gotten more of it.

[Commando Cody]

What, no "evil hand" reference?

[Pondlass1]

38 minutes ago, Commando Cody said:

What, no "evil hand" reference?

Ha ha... Lindsey and his evil hand LOL!

I just watched the episode and enjoyed it.  But the interruptions of the cool stuff with the boring stuff is obvious and irritating. Do they think it builds suspense?  It’s so editing 101. It reminded me of badass Demon Dean days when it kept breaking away to Cas and Hannah’s search to find fallen angels who’d not gone back to heaven... or some shit like that. 

I'm from London England and don’t know much about US accents, but was Jensen’s Texas drawl a bit more obvious this time? And was that family business on the beer label? 
Storyline was simplistic compared to early seasons but we got badass Dean, and belting out a song Dean, and the maroon murder shirt to boot...... so yeah I just sat back and relished it all.  It’s been slim pickings folks.

[Bergamot]

7 hours ago, Wynne88 said:

Another thing that bugged me was Castiel saying he had his friend 'Bobby' hanging out with Sergei's niece or daughter (whoever she was).  I'm assuming he meant AU Bobby although I don't remember him actually being his friend. I really hate the idea that they totally ignore AU Bobby and AU Charlie's existence except for when they need a 'friend' who just happens to be available (but invisible and not worth mentioning in idle conversation). 

Oh is that who the blonde woman was supposed to be, Sergei's niece? I was thinking that we were supposed to know who she was and I was drawing a blank, so that was confusing me. Sergei did mention that he was spending the day with his niece though, didn't he?

I still don't get it though. Was she supposed to be Sergei's accomplice, or just an innocent bystander in the situation? If she wasn't involved, why am I supposed to think Castiel was so awesome for planning ahead to have Bobby in place to -- well, to do what exactly? Put a bullet in this woman's brain if Sergei didn't cooperate?

Yeah, I know, Castiel was trying to save Sam's life (after having put him in that situation in the first place.) And it didn't bother me when Eileen threatened to kill Sergei if he didn't help them. But Sergei's reaction to the threat against Anna, the way he complimented Castiel on being so "Russian", makes me think that she really was just an innocent pawn. In which case it was weird to me that it felt as if the episode wanted me to admire Castiel for being so clever. Good for him, I guess?

[AwesomO4000]

14 hours ago, Bali said:

I guess I need to watch whatever season blah episode that this Eileen person came from because I still don't remember her.

It's season 11's "Into the Mystic." I enjoyed the episode. Both of the Characters of the Week (one was Eileen) were interesting and enjoyable in my opinion. For me, it was a fairly typical monster of the week episode, but the details were fairly well done.

[7kstar]

Not a spoiler but just a thought.  When Cas was introduced, he and Dean weren't friends.  He was doing his own agenda.  So are they trying to redo the intro of Cas and Dean and force a split so the bond at the end makes it all the more bittersweet?

I'd admit on the first watch it looked like Jensen singing from when he was so shy in front of the crowd.  Hence the big downing booze to have courage.  Being a fan of both and knowing their history it was really cool.

I'm glad they gave a strong fight scene to both actors because I would have hate anything else.  This is the first ep of the season that I even want to rewatch.

Edited December 7, 2019 by 7kstar

[Bergamot]

4 hours ago, PAForrest said:

Exactly, no one condescendingly lectured Dean to suck it up. I'm fine with lessons Dean learns on his own - though this was more of an awakening, which again is better realized when one comes to it him or herself.

Yes, this was very satisfying in a number of ways. I especially liked that Dean's awakening, as you put it, emerged not in relation to some spectacular world-saving feat, but from him applying himself to helping what he refers to as "the little guy". Because "saving people, hunting things" has always been Dean's touchstone.

I understood completely why Dean was struggling so much with what had happened with Chuck, so I was glad that we got to see him finding his balance again. And it was very enjoyable watching him interact with his old buddy, even though it did end tragically.

6 hours ago, PAForrest said:

He wanted to have fun, he had fun, period.

And I have decided that I support Jensen in this, 100 percent. Maybe if the show had indicated that there was anything else planned for Dean, something like Sam's special connection to God or his inheritance of Rowena's witch powers, I would not want to waste any time getting back to the importance of the main storyline. But so far this season there has been nothing. So why not have fun?

2 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

Storyline was simplistic compared to early seasons but we got badass Dean, and belting out a song Dean, and the maroon murder shirt to boot...... so yeah I just sat back and relished it all.  It’s been slim pickings folks.

Agreed. If ultimately, all they have planned for Dean's role in the final season of the show is for him to be supportive of his brother while he does important things, I really think I would rather watch Dean sing. It was fun!

[Lemuria]

5 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

I didn't even mind the "Dean learns a lesson" aspect because it was a conclusion Dean came to himself rather than being subject to another lecture by Cas and/or Sam.

This, x1,000!

[Cambion]

Couple of thoughts:

Liked that the bar was serving FBBC brews.

My head canon for Dean singing is now this:

Singing Wanted Dead or Alive before going to Hell -- he was too choked up with emotion to sign well.

And DemonDean was a demon, so he was torturing the listeners for fun.

Dean CAN sing.  Cause after all, he's a part of Jensen.  ( at 22:30)

Fight me!

[Aeryn13]

11 hours ago, SueB said:

Not that I can see.  At least not in his comments.  I haven’t done an exhaustive search for his mentions.  
 

Jeremy is such an obvious fan of the show, I think his enthusiasm is on par with Robbie Thompson.  

I know there was some kerfluffle on twitter over Dean getting to sing and whatnot but I actually meant the tarring and feathering would happen from the other writers. Other writers got in one Dean-positive episode as well before they changed. 

[Bobcatkitten]

This handwringing over Dean singing is ridiculous. Canon is mixed at best. And it's a small detail not important to the overall arc of the show. They have changed canon for major things - i.e. anyone who has been to hell can't go to heaven.