S07.E09: 12 Seconds in Heaven

[Baltimore Betty]

Simone wanted male attention, she got it and he showed her who really is.  Simone should be angry at herself not the asshole she wanted to hook up with. It has been played out since season one that the the male crew members just want to get laid, talk about their conquests and generally disrespect the women crew members but yet, here we are again! 

[Special K]

2 minutes ago, Baltimore Betty said:

Simone wanted male attention, she got it and he showed her who really is.  Simone should be angry at herself not the asshole she wanted to hook up with. It has been played out since season one that the the male crew members just want to get laid, talk about their conquests and generally disrespect the women crew members but yet, here we are again! 

It's not just the men who want to get laid.

[Baltimore Betty]

11 minutes ago, Special K said:

It's not just the men who want to get laid.

You are right there! But the women seem to think there will be a relationship once they are off the boat. Have any of the hook ups survived off the boat and in real life?

[pasdetrois]

Why is Simone not using her advanced education and skill in multiple languages for a stable career?

She's just a wannabe reality TV idiot like all of the others. I suspect she was hired to try to bring much-needed diversity onto the show.

Captain Lee appears to be wanting to be anywhere but on this show.

[Special K]

Just now, pasdetrois said:

Captain Lee appears to be wanting to be anywhere but on this show.

He certainly seems to despise the guests.  But who can blame him?  😂

[Juliegirlj]

Captain Lee has been through the wringer over the past year or two with family issues. 

[Special K]

32 minutes ago, Juliegirlj said:

Captain Lee has been through the wringer over the past year or two with family issues. 

I think this season was done filming before his son's death.  But yes, I'm sure you're right.

[The Ringo Kidd]

4 hours ago, spunky said:

So should she just stayed in her place and whistle while she works? Of course she doesn’t have confidence around guests or know how to perform service tasks properly, she’s been in laundry for 2 damn years. It’s not uncommon for a Black person to get hired not be properly trained and then get accused for not knowing what to do. Kate loves Courtney because that’s what is familiar to her and she has no time for someone who looks nothing like her and Courtney.

This is on the money. Kate immediately befriended Courtney and froze out Simone. She has a history of doing that season after season. She needed to make an effort to gain her trust and calmly and unemotionally explain what Simone has to do to improve her service skills. Instead of sending her to the laundry ghetto and playing gossip girl with her sorority sister.

[laprin]

On 12/3/2019 at 11:16 AM, Mondrianyone said:

Increasingly I don't like Simone.  If she's so academically accomplished, why isn't she out in the wider world dazzling with her brilliance, rather than acting petulant and entitled as a belowdecks servant to rich people?  Working as a translator would afford her as much travel and a lot more prestige.

No doubt.  For someone who's such a self-proclaimed stable genius at math, Simone seems to have a lot of trouble telling the difference between two and three.  Or understanding how things add up.  (Stop me before I math-joke again.)

I agree with this. I will also add that Simone strikes me as someone that over values her skills in many areas.  I bet she thinks she gave Tanner amazing service. 

[laprin]

14 hours ago, spunky said:

Simone has said multiple times that she’s only been relegated to laundry. Therefore she has no service skills. Continuing to stuff her in laundry and not training her does not help. She’ll never learn if the keeps getting hateful people who think that their shit don’t stink. Kate loves her little pet Courtney who refuses to do any laundry yet she doesn’t say one word to her. Why? Because Courtney like her is a mean girl who thinks it’s okay to talk about someone behind their back and make fun of them. 

What role does common sense have in evaluating Simone? I've never been part of a wait staff, but I would know without being told to check on my guests every 15 minutes or so because I would expect that if I was a guest. Add to this that Simone supposedly has experience and it becomes more perplexing why she requires a significant amount of training from Kate.  The nature of the work, with the fast turnaround between charters, requires a person that is a quick study.  

[forevertwentynine]

On 12/2/2019 at 10:06 PM, The Ringo Kidd said:

Well Simone is very well educated and speaks several languages. 
 

Which explains why she likes Tanner so much as he is a cunning linguist. 

This is the best.  I'm sorry, I've been cracking up over this.  So funny.  So so funny!  

[dleighg]

14 minutes ago, laprin said:

, but I would know without being told to check on my guests every 15 minutes or so because I would expect that if I was a guest.

and also, if you've ever been a guest, you would know that you would want to be *asked* if you'd like anything, rather than having to feel like a greedy/troublesome guest to say "hey, can you get me...."

[The Ringo Kidd]

5 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

Captain Lee appears to be wanting to be anywhere but on this show.

Fair enough. I wish he were anywhere else too!

He has passed his sell by date and he is starting to curdle.

[Dance4Life]

Soooo long....Y’all......ooops!  😘

People are blaming Kate, but Simone would not fly with Captain Sandy.

Captain Sandy is HUGE on guest pampering.  Last season she was all over it.  She stayed on Hannah’s ass when she saw her slacking.

CS told them about table settings not being elaborate enough.  Gave them money and told them to go shopping.

What happened afterward?

That Russian chick (I forgot her name).....came back empty handed because she did not like any decorations at the store.

Then anytime CS sees the stews wandered off from the guests for even 2 minutes.....she was fuming at the stews.

There was that episode when CS during dinner service she told staff....you stand right there at the door. You do not move!   If a guest even looks up.....you go up to them and ask them if they need anything.

CS....will ask anybody.   The guy that stood at the door....was a male deck crew member.

So, CS comes back 5 minutes to make sure the guy was at the door.

What did she find?  The guy had walked away.

So, there goes CS......telling Hannah ....AGAIN.......the guy is not allowed to move from the door.  Guest service is everything!

Every season there is some Stew not properly doing their job.  Maybe it is casting that does this to create this drama.

 Simone’s....if she is serious about stew.....would fit in better with CS ‘tough love’ crew mentoring program.  
 

Captain Lee is not like that.  He starts calling out crew as assholes and stupid and threatens to ‘give them a plane ticket

home.’  And, he does!  We have seen him fire a lot of staff.

What does happen every season.........’sitcom style’......we see the stew get better. And, viewers get a smooth sailings atmosphere around mid-season.

Simone is not getting better or even trying.  

Simone does not want to do guest service or laundry.

But, there is No other job for stews.

You are either on guest pampering.....or housekeeping! Those are the 2 choices and there is no in-between.

You are allowed to fuck on your days off. On charter....you work your ass off!  🥳

I will say it again.....Simone now wants to be upfront not to be on guest service.....but, to hang out with Tanner and ‘grow’ their relationship. 

Simone thinks.....fraternizing.....is a job option! 🤣

We saw Simone do this before.  When she was on ‘guest watching’ she had her back 

turned to the guests and was there fraternizing loudly with deck crew.

Then Kate was with the guests serving them drinks......watching her purposely ignore guests.

Kate was doing Simone’s assigned job.

It has nothing to do with color.  It has everything to do with Kate getting stuck doing a lazy stew’s job. 

Kate freezes out the ‘lazy stew’ every single season.  She gets into arguments with them.  And, Kate and Hannah getting into fights with the Chef....happens every season, too. 

It is not that she prefers Courtney.  It is that Courtney is dependable. 

Kate always  gets chummy with the dependable stew.

So far, Kate still has hope for Simone.  Because, she has not talk to Captain Lee about her lack of skills.......which she has done in the past.

We will see next week Kate having a meltdown.  Every season....Kate and Hannah have a meltdown. 

Somebody said it correctly.   The girls that hook up with on charters always expect a relationship with guy .....On Land.  We see them slacking at their job.....to chase this ‘relationship.’  Simone will find out these are not Tanner’s intentions.  This also happens every season! 

This show has the same ‘formula’ every season.

So, maybe some of it is also scripted.
 

What is not scripted is the personal relationships that develop with the crew members.  This is why casting  brings in new people.  It is to ‘fool’ the viewers.....but, it truly is the same show.
 

Yea, Chef Ben ‘dumped’ Kate one season when he found interest with Emily. Emily and  Ben dated in real life for a while before breaking up. They even set-up a ‘cooking show’ on You Tube which was boring and sooooooo basic.  One episode they made hummus and acted like they were making foie gras. LMAO  😙

Edited December 4, 2019 by Dance4Life

[RoxiP]

LOL...I don't think Anastasia was a "Russian girl" but her name certain would indicate that she could be!

[biakbiak]

33 minutes ago, Dance4Life said:

Yea, Chef Ben ‘dumped’ Kate one season w

They hooked up briefly between seasons and weren’t together when he met Emily. Though they still hang out quite a bit though less since Kate moves to NY.

[sadtvjunkie]

19 minutes ago, RoxiP said:

LOL...I don't think Anastasia was a "Russian girl" but her name certain would indicate that she could be!

yes she was. Her mother was from Ukraine I believe. That's why she could speak russian with the chef.

[Dance4Life]

14 minutes ago, RoxiP said:

LOL...I don't think Anastasia was a "Russian girl" but her name certain would indicate that she could be!

I thought they were from Georgia with Russian ancestry.  I traveled the Silk Road and a lot of the people were Russian and I got by speaking in Russian. CIS countries. (Not Georgia but it is a neighboring country with the same influences) 

China has a large Russian population, too.

7 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

They hooked up briefly between seasons and weren’t together when he met Emily. Though they still hang out quite a bit though less since Kate moves to NY.

This is what I meant and why it is in quotation.  He stopped the romantic interest in Kate to pursue Emily.  Yea....the ‘main cast’ most stay in touch. 

[biakbiak]

4 minutes ago, sadtvjunkie said:

yes she was. Her mother was from Ukraine I believe. That's why she could speak russian with the chef.

The Republic of Georgia not Ukraine. Anastasia was born there and moved to the US when she was two or three.

3 minutes ago, Dance4Life said:

This is what I meant and why it is in quotation.  He stopped the romantic interest in Kate to pursue Emily.

But he didn’t stop the romantic interest to pursue Emily they both realized it was a bad idea and should not have happened before he met her, Kate was already in another relationship.

Edited December 4, 2019 by biakbiak

[Dance4Life]

57 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

The Republic of Georgia not Ukraine. Anastasia was born there and moved to the US when she was two or three.

But he didn’t stop the romantic interest to pursue Emily they both realized it was a bad idea and should not have happened before he met her, Kate was already in another relationship.

 

True! I noticed the sexual tension and flirting between Ben and Kate stopped after Emily’s season.  Ben & Kate are two of the faves with viewers and casting.  Of course, they have a relationship .....personal & professional.  Riding that reality star gravy train! We will probably never see Emily again on BD. 

That whole region shares Russian ancestry.  I feel it is very similar to the Spanish African Diaspora.  We are all different nationalities. 20+ countries. We are modern tri-racials and  share the same history, colonization, culture and Spanish language. This is why I got by speaking in Russian and Anastasia also spoke Russian. Russia’s domination has been present since the beginning.

 I do not remember Anastasia telling us how she identifies......if she even did. I just remember her speaking a lot about her mom in Georgia and cooking for the president. Her parents can even be different nationalities. Anastasia needs a second season! 

[Haute Messe]

On 12/2/2019 at 8:51 PM, njbchlover said:

I also get annoyed with Kevin when he is describing his food - everything is "This is JUST a this or that"....does he not have confidence in his food?  It certainly doesn't sound like it when he is speaking to the guests.  And, why does he have to do that at every meal?  I don't remember other chefs having this much interaction with the guests.  Usually the stew on service does the meal descriptions, if I recall correctly.  

Drives me nuts too. I think he is pretty confident (even over-confident), but is intimidated by Captain Lee.

On 12/2/2019 at 11:18 PM, sara1025 said:

I love how Simone brings up how she's a mathematician, like that somehow makes her a genius at EVERYTHING. Just because someone is very intelligent and well educated doesn't mean they will automatically have the social and hospitality skills required to give great service as a stew. And I highly doubt Kate is having an issue with her because of Kate being jealous of her mathematician skills lol.

This. And intellectual intelligence doesn't necessarily mean they have a lot of common sense either. There are some very book-smart people in my family who have a hard time managing basic life or social situations.

On 12/3/2019 at 10:52 AM, mytmo said:

Simone is just plain shitty on service.  I recognize this as I was shitty as a waitress in my high school years.  Kate should've had her in third position from the beginning.  Kate doesn't give me the impression of bigotry either.  Ranked jobs I thought were given because the person has the skills and may just need to be informed on how that particular position is to be done.  Basic training should not be expected in an elevated position.

I think Kate is between a rock and a hard place with Simone. I just caught a few minutes of Ep 1 of this season where Simone said her 2 years of experience was mainly in housekeeping/laundry, and Courtney had no yacht experience but liked interacting with people. Simone was assigned second stew position based on her previous experience but her service skills proved to be terrible, even with Kate showing her the ropes. And Courtney stepped in and learned very quickly. When there is a time limit on these trips and tips are on the line, there is not a lot of time for on the job training, so Kate has had to put the stews where their skills are best suited - simple as that. And her melt down when she witnessed the guest taking a plate out to the table shows that she has no clue that Kate was just humouring a guest who was being a pain in the ass.

Simone might have done better under Sandy's style of micro-managing and hovering over everyone, but she wouldn't have tolerated butchering citrus or standing around waiting for guests to ask for something either.  

Edited December 4, 2019 by lizajane

[laprin]

11 hours ago, Special K said:

I think part of the thing with Simone comes down to where you think the greater burden lies in a boss/employee relationship.  I'm old school, so I think it's incumbent on the employee to figure out how to meet the demands of the particular job, within the parameters set by the boss/organization.  If that means studying in your own time, fine. Or asking for help and then taking advantage of that help.  Of course the boss can intensively train the staffmember, if the particular job is predicated as an apprenticeship, or whatever.  But this one is not.  As I see it, my job as an employee is to solve problems for my boss, not create problems for her.   I don't think my job is meant to be a personal development opportunity for me.  It might end up being so, but only if I apply myself to it and seek out opportunities to improve myself.

But again, I'm old school. 

As a “boss” and a POC, I would hire someone with your “old school” thinking in a New York minute. I call that “old school” thinking showing initiative and drive - two traits that can’t be “trained” into you. 

[spunky]

10 hours ago, The Ringo Kidd said:

This is on the money. Kate immediately befriended Courtney and froze out Simone. She has a history of doing that season after season. She needed to make an effort to gain her trust and calmly and unemotionally explain what Simone has to do to improve her service skills. Instead of sending her to the laundry ghetto and playing gossip girl with her sorority sister.

Perfectly stated.

[MadMiniaturist]

To imply that Kate is a bigot is ridiculous. Simone supposedly has two years of experience. Kate puts her on service and each time, she is like a deer in headlights. Why must she be forced to train someone in the middle of charter on simple basics!? She just doesn't have it, end of story. I would have done the same thing....stick her down in laundry where she is comfortable and not acting like a bumbling idiot in front of guests.

[Red Bridey]

Kate can't train someone who doesn't want to be trained. Simone doesn't realize that it's HER job to demand more opportunities to practice her weaknesses in order to strengthen them. If I wanted to be the best 2nd stew but didn't know how to open a bottle of wine, I would watch, learn, do, and redo and redo AGAIN until it becomes second nature. Yes, Kate doesn't like untrained help. I wouldn't like untrained help either in her situation. Simone is usually quiet and solitary which is great in the laundry room but not great in dealing with boisterous, fame hungry, drunken guests on a reality show. But I agree with the poster who said up til now she's been looking at Tanner as her escape from the mundane. That's not going to work in the long run, as previews "seem" to indicate. Kate values competence, period, and values anyone who makes her work life easier. As we ALL DO in our own personal situation. Simone does not do that for Kate and Courtney does.

I am on neither side of the Riley/Kevin battle. Both are raging assholes and it seemed to me that neither was right but the crew sided against whichever one had been assholey to them. Riley had a valid point about Kevin BUT she ruined that for me when she turned on Tanner and Ashton for no good reason. Kevin's point was ludicrous though and he needed to humor Riley and just order the damn chicken wings or give her the menu so she could get something she liked. Both appeared to be spoiling for a fight with someone else (Kevin vs Kate? Riley vs Ashton?) but just took the first opportunity to swing their dicks to demonstrate they WILL NOT BE PUSHED AROUND. Well, great! Kevin is still seen as an asshole by the people who thought he was an asshole before, and Riley is still seen as an asshole by everyone she works with. Wonderful job, people!

[biakbiak]

2 hours ago, Red Bridey said:

Riley and just order the damn chicken wings or give her the menu so she could get something she liked. B

She had her own menu, he told her to look at it she tossed it on the table and repeated to him to order something paleo/keto. Both were complete and total assholes.

[Kdawg82]

On 12/3/2019 at 2:52 PM, Dance4Life said:

I think Simone is bitching now because she wants to be out front so that she can hang out and flirt with Tanner.

BINGO!!! I sniffed this out right off the bat! Love sick Simone!

[lcarolynl]

My first thought upon reading the charge that Simone doesn't get promoted due to her race was, "Ooookay, I'm not black, I don't see a lot of stuff black people face daily on big and tiny scales" 

But I'm just not seeing it. it appears that Kate has bonded closely with Courtney and not so much with Simone. I'm not surprised, Courtney is smart. She quick, she's confident, she knows how to make a million drinks, and she took to service quickly. It appears she's taken to every aspect of her job quickly. Sure she bitches about the hot, uncomfortable sand and the drudgery of laundry, but she does it.
She's funny and Kate likes funny, perhaps above all else.

Simone on the other hand seems lost about all aspects of service. She walked around and never addressed the guests on deck. She had to be told to get up and ask the guests if they need more food on the beach picnic, and despite knowing she doesn't know how to open a bottle of wine, she hasn't been shown practicing how to open a bottle of wine. She doesn't know how to pour a freaking beer!! She doesn't know how to make an iced coffee, a banana daiquiri (or any kind of daiquiri it seems). She doesn't know to ask the guests if they need anything, she doesn't know to suggest something (champagne, shots, etc), and she sure as heck didn't know how to shut down the disgusting primary with humor and finality. I get that the grotesque guest(s) is harder than opening a wine bottle but Simone honey, start with a wine bottle and approaching the guests to serve them!!

She should know she doesn't know anything so start watching, copying, asking questions of Kate and Courtney!!

I'm not going to say Kate behaved properly at the end of the show but given time to cool off, I'm hoping Kate will lay out exactly what Simone needs to do to advance to service.

I'm not going to comment on her bad taste in men. Kate had it right, sober Tanner is great but sober Tanner never goes out with them.

And Kate, that cave "beach" picnic was a rare flop for you. The view was not awesome from the table and there was no enjoying the area. I love caves and I'm not afraid of bats but ... no. Just a big, fat no on that picnic.

Courtney may be replacing Kate as my favorite on BD.

[esco1822]

1 hour ago, lcarolynl said:

And Kate, that cave "beach" picnic was a rare flop for you. The view was not awesome from the table and there was no enjoying the area. I love caves and I'm not afraid of bats but ... no. Just a big, fat no on that picnic.

I assumed this choice was because it was cooler there. Weren't these the guests who asked to eat inside because it was too hot? They didn't seem to mind it so I just assumed Kate was trying to accommodate the guest requests. Also, she doesn't have much say in location when it is dependent on where the boat is anchored. She's told which beach to go to, she just has to make the best of that situation.  

[biakbiak]

8 minutes ago, esco1822 said:

I assumed this choice was because it was cooler there. Weren't these the guests who asked to eat inside because it was too hot? They didn't seem to mind it so I just assumed Kate was trying to accommodate the guest requests. Also, she doesn't have much say in location when it is dependent on where the boat is anchored. She's told which beach to go to, she just has to make the best of that situation.  

Yes Kate specifically stated it was chosen because it was cool that seemed to the case there was plenty of beach in the front and to the side if that was what they wanted.

Edited December 5, 2019 by biakbiak

[SuprSuprElevated]

21 hours ago, laprin said:

I call that “old school” thinking showing initiative and drive - two traits that can’t be “trained” into you. 

If I may respectfully disagree, just a bit.  I believe that initiative can be trained in, but it needs to start well before one enters the workforce.  My father was a professional salesperson, and I believe that his stories and teachings, examples of integrity, etc. were paramount in forming my own habits and philosophy in my sales career.  So many businesses seem unwilling to train, especially in the customer service arena.  I believe that the corporate mindset has concluded that it is too expensive to train folks who will likely leave their employ, so they just don't do it.  The evidence is everywhere.  ymmv

[SweetieDarling]

2 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

If I may respectfully disagree, just a bit.  I believe that initiative can be trained in, but it needs to start well before one enters the workforce.  My father was a professional salesperson, and I believe that his stories and teachings, examples of integrity, etc. were paramount in forming my own habits and philosophy in my sales career.  So many businesses seem unwilling to train, especially in the customer service arena.  I believe that the corporate mindset has concluded that it is too expensive to train folks who will likely leave their employ, so they just don't do it.  The evidence is everywhere.  ymmv

I think it's a bit of both. When I was a teenager and got a job at the local chain drug store, I had to sit through a training film loop (it was the stone age, yes I am old) about customer service. (I was trained to ask "How may I help you?" rather than "May I help you?")  

Kate needed to tell Simone to be more intuitive (? alert?) to the guests' needs/desires. Tell her to check drink levels and offer refills. ASK if they'd like anything. She, obviously, doesn't know to ask these things. There should be some kind of job description, or list of responsibilities that these people agree to when they accept the job, shouldn't there?

Do they have recipe cards, or cheat sheets for the drinks? She should only need to be shown once how to slice fruit, pour beer, open wine and make mimosas properly.

I think Kate needs to take more time with her (walk her through the process ONCE), but I also think Simone needs to show more incentive.

[biakbiak]

47 minutes ago, SweetieDarling said:

Kate needed to tell Simone to be more intuitive (? alert?) to the guests' needs/desires. Tell her to check drink levels and offer refills. ASK if they'd like anything. She, obviously, doesn't know to ask these things. There should be some kind of job description, or list of responsibilities that these people agree to when they accept the job, shouldn't there?

I think part of the problem is that Simone seems to see the job as easy/beneath her because she is smart which is why she stated that Kate must be jealous of her intellect and that’s why she isn’t letting her on service. And because she thinks it should come easily to someone as smart as her she dismisses Courtney on pouring a beer because she doesn’t think it matters or not asking someone how to cut citrus and than mangling the lemons and limes and not caring what they look like, etc.. 

[Kdawg82]

Hannah from BD Med would be a fine 2nd stew lol. That's all I got.

[nokat]

On Wednesday, December 04, 2019 at 6:21 AM, Baltimore Betty said:

You are right there! But the women seem to think there will be a relationship once they are off the boat. Have any of the hook ups survived off the boat and in real life?

Friendships maybe. I have been in similar situations where I could pick the hot guy and have sexy time. But, that was just vomit inducing (poor Simone). When you have a vagina, and are in close quarters with men, you'll get your pick.
 

[Yours Truly]

21 hours ago, Red Bridey said:

Kate can't train someone who doesn't want to be trained. Simone doesn't realize that it's HER job to demand more opportunities to practice her weaknesses in order to strengthen them. If I wanted to be the best 2nd stew but didn't know how to open a bottle of wine, I would watch, learn, do, and redo and redo AGAIN until it becomes second nature. Yes, Kate doesn't like untrained help. I wouldn't like untrained help either in her situation. Simone is usually quiet and solitary which is great in the laundry room but not great in dealing with boisterous, fame hungry, drunken guests on a reality show. But I agree with the poster who said up til now she's been looking at Tanner as her escape from the mundane. That's not going to work in the long run, as previews "seem" to indicate. Kate values competence, period, and values anyone who makes her work life easier. As we ALL DO in our own personal situation. Simone does not do that for Kate and Courtney does.

I am on neither side of the Riley/Kevin battle. Both are raging assholes and it seemed to me that neither was right but the crew sided against whichever one had been assholey to them. Riley had a valid point about Kevin BUT she ruined that for me when she turned on Tanner and Ashton for no good reason. Kevin's point was ludicrous though and he needed to humor Riley and just order the damn chicken wings or give her the menu so she could get something she liked. Both appeared to be spoiling for a fight with someone else (Kevin vs Kate? Riley vs Ashton?) but just took the first opportunity to swing their dicks to demonstrate they WILL NOT BE PUSHED AROUND. Well, great! Kevin is still seen as an asshole by the people who thought he was an asshole before, and Riley is still seen as an asshole by everyone she works with. Wonderful job, people!

She had a reason. First off Tanner took part in the mockery with Kevin at the table. And you can see Rhylee take that in but only continued to discuss her reasoning with Kevin. Then Ashton, with his bias from last season automatically deems the situation ALL of Rhylee's fault cause up until then the crew has been one big happy family <eyeroll>. Ashton decides to be the judge and jury while discussing how bad Rhylee is behaving with the other two dudes and all Rhylee tried to do was get Ashton to explain his reasoning as to why he was only mad at her and why to him it was all her fault. Tanner interjects where he has no business to and got a well deserved tongue lashing from Rhlyee but not in the 12 seconds of heaven sorta way. The other thing that confuses me is why it's not absolutely obvious how inappropriate that whole bro gang up was and that there's still some doubt about what truly transpired. Sure, Rhylee is loud and abrupt and we can all say that a nicer approach would have been acoustically more tolerable but at the end of the day her only fault was that she didn't finesse the situation and instead went in blazing. So?? The men where loud and aggressive assholes, Tanner was unnecessarily condescending and they all wanted to make Rhylee feel small just because they were annoyed that she engaged in an argument at the table. ALL THREE OF THEM. They joined forces and Rhylee ended up as their target. It was NOT for all that.  I don't care how relentless Rhylee is. The guys were wrong if for nothing else than turning it into 3 against one for NO.DAMN. REASON.

I'm sure Courtney and Kate and Simone weren't exactly thrilled to be sitting in the middle of that but they didn't find the need to try and throw their opinions around, aim anger towards an argument that had nothing to do with them and then try to single one of them out. But the men did. Why is that? I get having a predetermined dislike for Rhylee. That's anyone's prerogative but I really wish that situations were received with the proper perspective and that opinions were based on what actually transpired. It's easy to lay blame on Rhylee because she's an easy target because of how abrupt she is. I can't stand that Ashton actually tried to tell her that she was the one that looked like the fool because she was the one that decided to engage in the back and forth with Kevin. I have a similar philosophy but you can clearly see that Ashton was mad only at Rhylee cause she didn't do what a good little girl should have done and that was to back down, keep quite and let the situation dissolve no matter how long Kevin and Tanner decided to mock her request at the table. I really don't get it to be honest. How these things get turned around on Rhylee every time when all she does is stand up for herself. 

Newsflash, when people stand up for themselves it's not always sunshine and flowers, wrapped in a bow. The idea that Rhylee can only stand up for herself using glitter and fairy dust pisses me the fuck off. Don't start none won't be none. Don't fuck with her and she won't answer the call. But the men resent that. They resent that they have to be mindful with how they treat her and speak to her which I get that noone likes having to tip toe around anyone but what we've seen is they want to reserve the right to be jerks and not get called out on it. There's a difference between having to walk on eggshells because you've got a sensitive cry baby (i.e. abby, who I suspect they wouldn't be as mean spirited to since she was playing it the right way, through tears and soft spoken angst although they would've come down on her eventually too had she stuck around kept being bad at her job) and having to watch your mouth cause this bitch ain't gonna take no shit from you. Men don't like that clause when dealing with women in a work environment or at all for that matter. When they decide the argument is over women are to receive the memo and shut the fuck up. Problem is Rhylee usually sends that memo out first. LOL! And Good For Her!

Ashton and his work so hard to get a blow job comment tells us that he doesn't like it when women don't comply. As much as I was rooting for him at the start of the season and I still think that he can be a really cool dude he really is showing his true colors. He's the type who will treat a women like a queen although it's when he's deemed her to be worth it. Til then, any woman that exhibits any traits that he deems inappropriate or not up to what he believes a LADY should be will get whatever treatment he deems fit. He's got a pretty good rationale and I do like his ability to move passed a situation but what I am really struggling with is the not so veiled frustration at having to tolerant women who don't meet his expectations, standards or demands. He's becomes rather ugly in how he handles women. 

[Jextella]

Forgive me if this has been asked already, but why did Kate move to NYC? 

[The Ringo Kidd]

12 minutes ago, Jextella said:

Forgive me if this has been asked already, but why did Kate move to NYC? 

Because nobody likes her in Florida.

[nokat]

20 hours ago, The Ringo Kidd said:

Because nobody likes her in Florida.

Pretty sure Captain Lee likes her.
 

[jmcd44]

On 12/6/2019 at 10:22 AM, Yours Truly said:

Ashton and his work so hard to get a blow job comment tells us that he doesn't like it when women don't comply.

First-bravo to your entire post. I won’t back down at work when it is necessary & often I’m the only woman to do so (and I’ll speak up on others behalf because it is uncomfortable for some to themselves) & I know it bothers some people. And I do think Rhylee can be a jerk but if she had ordered her own food, Kevin seems like the kind of person who would react to that too when HE is ordering (to a woman). Tanner seems like a try-hard so it wasn’t surprising to see him jump in. And Ashton? I loved him last year but he has lost me forever with that comment about how they only had (were stuck with?) girls that didn’t want to have fun, where fun only seems to mean orally service him. So women are just sex objects to him? To quote Rhylee “GOT IT”. I know Ross made out with Rhylee last year but didn’t Ashton also-or at least try to? 

[The Ringo Kidd]

3 hours ago, nokat said:

Pretty sure Captain Lee likes her.
 

Just another example of his bad judgment like hiring Rhylee and not sending Brian to the doctor immediately.

The Dud of the Sea is phoning it in this season.

Time for a change.

[Jel]

It's been almost a week since I saw it now, and there's editing and whatnot, but didn't Riley kind of start it with her tone? 

She somehow made a request for "something Paleo" sound like an indictment. Unless something happened before that that we didn't see , that tone she used with Kevin seemed unnecessary; and if she just dropped that she'd do a lot better with people in general I think, since it makes her abrasive.  She's often right about things, but the way she addresses problems is lacking.

[Bunnyette]

On 12/2/2019 at 9:40 PM, PaperTree said:

The guests are a rather loopy gang.

Cave seems like a good idea for the heat, but I wouldn't want to be that close to those bats.

Does no one know how to read a tide chart?

You think Captain would have made sure the crew knew...

[SuprSuprElevated]

I'll stick to my notion that Riley (Rhylee, Rilhee, Rielie or whatever cutesy spelling she uses) was brought into the mix to stir up mess.  It's what was needed and what she does.  I'm beginning to think that nothing spontaneous happens on this show.

[Yours Truly]

On 12/8/2019 at 7:41 AM, Jel said:

It's been almost a week since I saw it now, and there's editing and whatnot, but didn't Riley kind of start it with her tone? 

She somehow made a request for "something Paleo" sound like an indictment. Unless something happened before that that we didn't see , that tone she used with Kevin seemed unnecessary; and if she just dropped that she'd do a lot better with people in general I think, since it makes her abrasive.  She's often right about things, but the way she addresses problems is lacking.

See that's the thing. I truly didn't think there was anything wrong with her tone and let's say it did rub Kevin the wrong way. So the solution to that is him and Tanner mocking her at the table and escalating the situation? Provoking a negative reaction cause that's all they were aiming for once they decided to laugh and poke fun at her request, A negative reaction. Most likely they wanted to make her feel stupid and thought that was all that was going to come out of it. Once they realized that Rhylee ain't the one is went things went right off the rails. The negative reaction they ended up receiving wasn't as mild as they thought it was going to be and now it's a whole other kinda mess. The idea that Rhylee is the only one that needs adjusting is what's wrong with the misogynistic culture. The abrasive woman stands out as the more "wrong" one while it's easier to dismiss the men's disrespectful behavior. Their bro machismo is more tolerated cause it's more common and women tend to eyeroll it away like good little girls who don't want to make matters worse. That's the standard recipe. Let the boys be little brats while the women just "let it go" and not make a big deal about it.  Riley gets hit with a lot of bullshit cause she ain't demure and she sure as hell ain't apologetic about it. I agree that tone matters but I can't agree with is that, if you really pay attention to how things transpire, a woman's tone is analyzed for approval a lot more intensely. 

If you really notice Rhylee is a pretty pleasant person and doesn't just start fights and arguments. She's personable, laughs and jokes and is receptive to friendly behavior. The only time she's seen going off the rails is when she's being talked down to, dressed down or flat out disrespected. Is she perfect? No. But it seems that a big chunk of dislike for Rhlyee is that she's loud and unapologetic and doesn't fake niceties. I get the need to be situationally appropriate. I really do but I never understand why this standard dragged out among a bunch of immature asshats. They all show their ass at one point or another but for some reason when it's Rhlyee she's over stepped some pristine level behavior that none of the others can claim either. It's cause she's a women, she's loud, and she's unapologetic and women aren't allowed to be that way. I get being annoyed at her personality, and loudness, foul mouth. What I don't get is the LEVEL of disturbed they get and how they let it turn into an excuse to be extremely confrontational with her.  Especially the men. I always find it distasteful when a man allows themselves to get that level of agitated when interacting with a woman. It reeks of intimidation. I don't like aggressiveness in any situation with any gender but in this case it's all about wanting Riley to "know her place" and I'll never be okay with that.  Especially since at the end of the day tone or not all she did was make a custom request. Keep the reaction in proportion to act.   

[Yours Truly]

7 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

I'll stick to my notion that Riley (Rhylee, Rilhee, Rielie or whatever cutesy spelling she uses) was brought into the mix to stir up mess.  It's what was needed and what she does.  I'm beginning to think that nothing spontaneous happens on this show.

This I agree with. I just wish there was more fairness with regards to how these interactions go down. Ashton is bias from last season even though Riley did get a bad wrap. Kevin's an asshole but for some reason it's on Rhylee to "behave herself" which we know is not gonna happen so there's the drama production is aiming for by bringing her back. Plenty of antagonists on board and Rhylee is the perfect fuse. Oh well!

[Jel]

On 12/9/2019 at 12:20 PM, Yours Truly said:

See that's the thing. I truly didn't think there was anything wrong with her tone and let's say it did rub Kevin the wrong way. So the solution to that is him and Tanner mocking her at the table and escalating the situation? Provoking a negative reaction cause that's all they were aiming for once they decided to laugh and poke fun at her request, A negative reaction. Most likely they wanted to make her feel stupid and thought that was all that was going to come out of it. Once they realized that Rhylee ain't the one is went things went right off the rails. The negative reaction they ended up receiving wasn't as mild as they thought it was going to be and now it's a whole other kinda mess. The idea that Rhylee is the only one that needs adjusting is what's wrong with the misogynistic culture. The abrasive woman stands out as the more "wrong" one while it's easier to dismiss the men's disrespectful behavior. Their bro machismo is more tolerated cause it's more common and women tend to eyeroll it away like good little girls who don't want to make matters worse. That's the standard recipe. Let the boys be little brats while the women just "let it go" and not make a big deal about it.  Riley gets hit with a lot of bullshit cause she ain't demure and she sure as hell ain't apologetic about it. I agree that tone matters but I can't agree with is that, if you really pay attention to how things transpire, a woman's tone is analyzed for approval a lot more intensely. 

If you really notice Rhylee is a pretty pleasant person and doesn't just start fights and arguments. She's personable, laughs and jokes and is receptive to friendly behavior. The only time she's seen going off the rails is when she's being talked down to, dressed down or flat out disrespected. Is she perfect? No. But it seems that a big chunk of dislike for Rhlyee is that she's loud and unapologetic and doesn't fake niceties. I get the need to be situationally appropriate. I really do but I never understand why this standard dragged out among a bunch of immature asshats. They all show their ass at one point or another but for some reason when it's Rhlyee she's over stepped some pristine level behavior that none of the others can claim either. It's cause she's a women, she's loud, and she's unapologetic and women aren't allowed to be that way. I get being annoyed at her personality, and loudness, foul mouth. What I don't get is the LEVEL of disturbed they get and how they let it turn into an excuse to be extremely confrontational with her.  Especially the men. I always find it distasteful when a man allows themselves to get that level of agitated when interacting with a woman. It reeks of intimidation. I don't like aggressiveness in any situation with any gender but in this case it's all about wanting Riley to "know her place" and I'll never be okay with that.  Especially since at the end of the day tone or not all she did was make a custom request. Keep the reaction in proportion to act.   

I don't think it was just Rhylee, I'm just saying I didn't find her 100% innocent in the whole thing. I thought she had a tone in her voice when she asked about what Kevin was ordering. To my ear, the tone was judgy/condescending/contemptuous.   The request itself wasn't the problem, it was her delivery.  If she had just said, Hey Kev, I'm on a Paleo diet, could you please order something that would work? would he still have had a problem? I doubt it.

I'm sensitive to tone of voice, and if Rhylee had spoken to me like that I would have been taken aback, like wtf is her problem?-level of taken aback. And because I'm not Kevin, I would have said, Okay sure, and looked to find something on the menu. But later, alone in the car with my husband, I would have had a lot to say about it because that wasn't a normal way to ask.

Overall, I think it escalated because (huge assumption time...) Kevin is easily triggered by women. He can't seem to stand anything less than deference and he seems very quick to interpret  some neutral thing a woman does as a personal affront, like he's always jonesing for a fight with Kate, and now with Rhylee. 

[Yours Truly]

38 minutes ago, Jel said:

I don't think it was just Rhylee, I'm just saying I didn't find her 100% innocent in the whole thing. I thought she had a tone in her voice when she asked about what Kevin was ordering. To my ear, the tone was judgy/condescending/contemptuous.   The request itself wasn't the problem, it was her delivery.  If she had just said, Hey Kev, I'm on a Paleo diet, could you please order something that would work? would he still have had a problem? I doubt it.

I'm sensitive to tone of voice, and if Rhylee had spoken to me like that I would have been taken aback, like wtf is her problem?-level of taken aback. And because I'm not Kevin, I would have said, Okay sure, and looked to find something on the menu. But later, alone in the car with my husband, I would have had a lot to say about it because that wasn't a normal way to ask.

Overall, I think it escalated because (huge assumption time...) Kevin is easily triggered by women. He can't seem to stand anything less than deference and he seems very quick to interpret  some neutral thing a woman does as a personal affront, like he's always jonesing for a fight with Kate, and now with Rhylee. 

Gotcha and agreed! I'm usually thinking of the guys when I outline my reasoning. Once I get into my debate mode it's like I'm delivering my argument to them directly sometimes. LOL!

Edited December 11, 2019 by Yours Truly

[biakbiak]

3 hours ago, Jel said:

I'm on a Paleo diet, could you please order something that would work? would he still have had a problem? I doubt it.

My being annoyed at Rhylee was also because she specifically said she wasn’t on a keto/paleo diet, that she kept saying them together when they are actually different, and said she just wanted to do that so she could drink more which is not the way that either of those diets work.