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S06.E07: The Last Temptation of Barry Allen, Part 1

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As Barry Allen stands on the threshold of his impending death in Crisis, his convictions are tested when the monstrous Dr. Ramsey Rosso infects The Flash with a mysterious, hallucinogenic contagion. Meanwhile, reporter Iris West-Allen uncovers a vast conspiracy.

Chad Lowe directed the episode written by Jonathan Butler & Gabriel Garza.

Airdate: 11/26/2019

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4 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

What the...? with that title. Is Barry Allen now being compared to Christ? As in The Last Temptation of Christ? JEEBUS.🙄

It's a movie reference, not a Bible reference. Not a story from the Bible or Christianity, in case anyone doesn't know.

But the analogy fits anyway with the story they're telling this season.

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“Choose Life?” Dude, you’re not part of Wham. 
 

Grant is the best crier on TV. Even in the banal situations, or moments I really want to roll my eyes, he starts to tear up and I’m about to sob. 

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It seems like Eric decided to give into the #Original team Flash fans demands in wanting only Cisco/Barry/Caitlin in the lab. While giving Iris her own team, I guess to shut up her fans, lol. 

This was a really good episode in regard to Barry and Remsey. GG once again display his talent as a great actor beautifully.

As for Westallen, I understood why they kept them apart because that ending couldn't have worked if she had been there when Barry was going through everything. But still, it felt wrong. It felt so wrong that it distracted me from fully enjoying the episode. 

Candice once again prove that she can make whatever little amount the writerrs give her good. 

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I probably would have really liked this episode if it wasn't still channeling Iris as "The Strong Black Woman".

That whole part of Barry realizing Nora wouldn't be born (or not even realizing it, it's clear he's totally aware that was the case), yet this stupid show couldn't show Iris or Barry or both even discussing it?

Beyond the pale.

Allegra noticing Iris throwing herself into her work instead of focusing on Barry/Crisis?  That should have been happening with folks EVERY DAMN EPISODE this season.  The fact that NONE of Team Flash (except Ralph, but he was an asshole) noticed or cared or even thought to check in on Iris about that will forever be a stain on them and on this show's runup to Crisis.

Not even Joe has checked.

And Crisis is in 36 hours? WTF.

It's sad because had they laid down breadcrumbs of this better, I would have been much more emotionally impacted with Barry feeling so upset at losing Nora, his family.  Oh and of course they had to throw in "his friends" because we can't have Barry love his damn family more than his coworkers - no that would be blasphemy to our new showrunner.

As it is, all I could feel was anger and rage that many of Barry's emotional beats happened AGAIN with TF, with Iris nowhere to be found.

I don't know what Eric Wallace thinks he's doing - but the fact that he's perpetuated this Strong Black Woman trope is some coonery.

The only good part was Iris knowing that wasn't Barry - but what's so sad about this season is that I actually really wondered that it WAS Barry since we've gotten almost NO Westallen interaction onscreen since episode 2.

I was actually surprised when Iris told TF it wasn't Barry - because the way the show had been going, it wasn't fully beyond the pale for him to treat her like he did at the end.

If this show doesn't manage a miraculous turnaround, I might be out for good.

6 minutes ago, SevenStars said:

It seems like Eric decided to give into the #Original team Flash fans demands in wanting only Cisco/Barry/Caitlin in the lab. While giving Iris her own team, I guess to shut up her fans, lol. 

This was a really good episode in regard to Barry and Remsey. GG once again display his talent as a great actor beautifully.

As for Westallen, I understood why they kept them apart because that ending couldn't have worked if she had been there when Barry was going through everything. But still, it felt wrong. It felt so wrong that it distracted me from fully enjoying the episode. 

Candice once again prove that she can make whatever little amount the writerrs give her good. 

Agree with all of this - but most especially the bolded parts.

I now know I was right about EVERYTHING I've been saying since the KF team up episode.  Even the KF break down was shipbait.

The whole thing makes me feel so completely manipulated.  COONERY.

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@phoenics you are so right about only Allegra showing concern for Iris. I mean it wasn't even because Iris was showing stress/worry about her husband dying,  that Allegra noticed. Which would have reminded the audience that Iris is a HUMAN BEING, therefore she is stress/worry/depress about losing her HUSBAND. But no, Allegra only know this because she saw the headline of Iris' article. So it wasn't because Iris was being human.

Also, Iris had a scene with Joe, her Dad, who knows that his daughter only have two days before she loses her husband and childhood best-friend but didn't bother taking a few minutes to talk to his daughter. He didn't bother to show concern or comfort for his daughter. Instead, he acted like it was business as usually. 

Dman, this episode was really good, so I  hate complaining but I just can't let this go because the optic of it to me is so ugly. 

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1 minute ago, SevenStars said:

@phoenics you are so right about only Allegra showing concern for Iris. I mean it wasn't even because Iris was showing stress/worry about her husband dying,  that Allegra noticed. Which would have reminded the audience that Iris is a HUMAN BEING, therefore she is stress/worry/depress about losing her HUSBAND. But no, Allegra only know this because she saw the headline of Iris' article. So it wasn't because Iris was being human.

Also, Iris had a scene with Joe, her Dad, who knows that his daughter only have two days before she loses her husband and childhood best-friend but didn't bother taking a few minutes to talk to his daughter. He didn't bother to show concern or comfort for his daughter. Instead, he acted like it was business as usually. 

Dman, this episode was really good, so I  hate complaining but I just can't let this go because the optic of it to me is so ugly. 

I said this when Eric Wallace took over the showrunner mantle - I said you can't trust all black men to write in healthy ways with black women characters and folks here assured me that he was fine.

No.  No he's not fine.

We've gone back to S2A levels of trash tropes being trotted out and draped over Iris.

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Well, I actually found this episode one of the strongest in a while. It had some really great moments. 

Grant Gustin remains one of the best Arrowverse actors for me. He's just so good at his job. He really pulls off the dramatic moments. I really felt bad to see Barry slowly losing control of his mind.

The Team Citizen stuff was really great. I'm still not really a fan of Kamilla, but Allegra is great, and I'm all for Iris having a female friend. Seriously, Allegra really brought out some great moments for Iris. I liked seeing Allegra so supportive of Iris. Plus, that shot of all three women at that crime scene was great. That's what a feminist moment looks like, show. Not that weird #girlpower or whatever the fuck they tried to do a few seasons back. 

I knew Barry wasn't Barry when he woke up. Grant made some extremely effective cues that made it clear from the moment he opened his eyes. I'm glad Iris picked up on it, as well. 

The Killer Frost panic attack? Mmmkay, show. It's clear that you like KF more than Caitlin now. But I had to laugh at Frost's panic all episode being due to Ralph almost dying. I guess this is confirmation that Frost likes Ralph? Meanwhile, poor Ralph.  

Still, I gotta say that it was a good episode. It needed more Joe, though. 

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16 minutes ago, phoenics said:

I said this when Eric Wallace took over the showrunner mantle - I said you can't trust all black men to write in healthy ways with black women characters and folks here assured me that he was fine.

No.  No he's not fine.

We've gone back to S2A levels of trash tropes being trotted out and draped over Iris.

Yeah, the writing for Iris when it comes to Barry dying is very problematic for me. 

Honestly, this episode was one of the best. But because they keep ignoring the little details in the story that would make the Crisis story compelling and emotionally, I'm sitting here giving criticism instead of just praise. When all they had to do was show one or two scenes of the other characters showing concern for Iris, especially Joe. 

But I guess we might get to see that next week. Which will still bother me, lol, because it will feel a little too late. 

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17 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

  

Still, I gotta say that it was a good episode. It needed more Joe, though. 

We desperately need more Joe. I don't know if Jesse asked then to ease back on giving him screen time or not but this season story arc call for Joe to be on more. 

Like, Joe could have been the one who went to Westallen apartment to spend time with Barry and find him on the floor. 

They just need to bring Joe more into the story since his two children are basically in the center of it, one dying and one losing her husband. 

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Now Barry is getting pep talks from the Speedforce in the form of his dead mom.  Sure, why not ?

The Thanksgiving meal scene was just creepy.

And now Bloodwork controls The Flash.  Whatever.

Everyone seems to be lacking concern that the Crisis is only days away.
I'm with Allegra on this one.  Crisis ?  Hello ?

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2 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Now Barry is getting pep talks from the Speedforce in the form of his dead mom.  Sure, why not ?

The Thanksgiving meal scene was just creepy.

And now Bloodwork controls The Flash.  Whatever.

Everyone seems to be lacking concern that the Crisis is only days away.
I'm with Allegra on this one.  Crisis ?  Hello ?

And not even days.... 36 hours.

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I just don’t understand why KF and Caitlin had to agree that the latter will handle medical stuff going forward. If they’re really supposed to be two people in one body then KF shouldn’t have been doing medicine in the first place. She didn’t go to med school and has technically only existed (as we know her) for a couple of years. I’m amazed Ralph and Barry are still breathing. 

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17 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

I just don’t understand why KF and Caitlin had to agree that the latter will handle medical stuff going forward. If they’re really supposed to be two people in one body then KF shouldn’t have been doing medicine in the first place. She didn’t go to med school and has technically only existed (as we know her) for a couple of years. I’m amazed Ralph and Barry are still breathing. 

Just add it to the list of things a doctor would NEVER do and would cause Caitlin to lose her license.

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You know, as ridiculous as the stories can get, we can count on Grant Gustin ready to emote the fuck out of a scene. Speed Force Mom on one side, Sendhil Ramamurthy relishing being the bad guy on the other, and Barry keeps breaking apart. And as stupid as this might sound, it feels real.

Was that really Ramsey? Or did he just set up shop and wait for Blood!Flash to show up, not knowing what he went through? I'm assuming the Bloodwork "virus" was the thing messing with Barry. Seriously, though, wouldn't a Crisis be used as a deterrent? "Look, I'm not going to be your blood slave or whatever sick crap plot that never made it to Heroes. If I'm alive after the Crisis, you and me can fight. You're an asshole, but I think you're a better nemesis than Devoe and Cicada. For now, anyway."

I'm not too drawn into the Iris story. Probably because the Crisis is nigh, I'm guessing the pieces will be picked up post-Crisis.

Edited by Lantern7
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3 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Was that really Ramsey? Or did he just set up shop and wait for Blood!Flash to show up, not knowing what he went through? I'm assuming the Bloodwork "virus" was the thing messing with Barry. Seriously, though, wouldn't a Crisis be used as a deterrent. "Look, I'm not going to be your blood slave or whatever sick crap never made it to Heroes. If I'm alive after the Crisis, you and me can fight. You're an asshole, but I think you're a better nemesis than Devoe and Cicada. For now, anyway."

Blood!Flash -- I like that.

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Count me as another person confused by the Caitlin/Killer Frost "WE WILL BE A DOCTOR WHEN MEDICAL HELP IS NEEDED" because....

a) Why hasn't this come up before? 

b) Frost and Caitlin can talk to each other inside their head, right?  With Frost even saying that she and Caity (uh, not sure how Frost spells that?) had just talked. 

c) So basically, Caitlin could just talk Frost through an injury, right?

d) And since, as we saw in this very episode, it's easy enough for them to switch, then if the talking doesn't work, they just switch over. 

And honestly, why wouldn't Frost be ok with this? Is Frost supposed to have all of Caitlin's waking hours now? If so, is Frost doing sciency stuff off screen, or just doing Frosty stuff off screen? Why am I even asking?

Iris and the Reporters felt like filler, but it was nice to see Iris with actual friends, so I'll let that go.

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This is the first episode I've watched in years, but I heard about the gross scene and was intrigued. I have no idea what's going on so I won't comment on the storyline except for to say that: 

1. With Barry being possessed by this blood virus/person and Crisis being 36 hours away, it seems like Team Flash won't be getting any rest for a good long while and

2. Iris looked so pretty in that scene with Barry and baby Nora. 

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Much better than last week.

Say what you will about how the show admittedly really likes to dive into Angsty Barry pool way too much, but damn, if Grant Gustin isn't the best at delivering on all of it.  He really sold all of Barry's turmoil and anguish, and even though it was obvious that Ramsey was up to no good, I can buy that Barry got to the point that he was willing to align with him, if it meant saving himself from the Crisis, and being with those he loves.  Since he's under Ramsey's control now, I guess that he ended up succumbing to those impulses (for now), and while that is clearly the wrong decision, I think Gustin showed why Barry is at that point now.  Poor Barry.  But well done, Grant!

Of course, it helps that thanks to some better writing (for this show) and Sendhil Ramamurthy's performance, Ramsey really is one of the most effective villains in quite some time.  While there will always be the idea in the back of my mind that Team Flash will come out ahead in the end, Ramsey/Bloodwork is the first one in ages that feels like a legit threat to the team, and I'm curious to see how they will finally put him down for good.

Looks like Ramsey's attack on Ralph was mainly a set-up to infect Barry, but it also looks like they're using it to have him off screen for a bit.  Is Hartley Sawyer involved in the crossover, too?

All of the actors seem to be having a blast during the creepy Thanksgiving dinner scene!

Liked seeing more of the newspaper team, and I'm glad Iris and Allegra are on more open terms now, and the latter is actually supporting the former.  It still feels like no one is really addressing how dangerous the Crisis is, and it this could be the last time anyone sees Barry.

Looks like Nash found whatever he was looking for: whatever that might be.

Continue to glaze over whatever stuff is going on with Caitlin/Killer Frost.

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Great acting by GG and Sendhil; I think Barry's issues with his sacrifices and losses on behalf of the Speedforce ring true. I suspect part of him has been harboring some resentment for all his losses since he became the Flash. It was really a well done character study for Barry. I love when he said that most of his life he was living with an eye to his past (I'm paraphrasing), but now he was living for himself or his today and tomorrow. 

Like others, I don't believe that Iris' behavior or the lack of concern for Iris from the team ring true. Cisco is Barry's BFF and he hasn't shown concern for Barry's wife?! How does that even make sense? I'd even take a throw-away line each episode about someone checking on Iris; I don't even have to see the scene. They're supposed to be like family. If my friend's family member or even a friend of my friend, who I don't know, is having a hard time, I'll ask about them because it's affecting my friend who I care about. 

Killer Frost administering any drug is scary to watch; these writers can't keep KF and Caity straight. Again, why is Cisco asking KF is she's OK with Cait using Cait's body? Isn't Caitlin the primary owner of said body? This is insane.

Forgot to mention that Iris almost made eye contact with KF towards the end there, but really focused on Cisco. Almost...

Edited by adora721
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I thought this episode was really good, despite a few quibbles, but then I keep thinking of ways it could have been better.

I had high hopes for the "volume 1", "volume 2" format for this season, but even with a shortened timeframe the pacing is still off.

First off - the recurring D-plot with Nash Wells probably could have fit in one episode. It's clear now nothing is really going to happen with him until exactly before Crisis. I guess I kind of appreciate that he's been mostly isolated from everyone else and had less screentime. But I still feel he's been a waste of space.

Iris' conflicted feelings and avoidance of writing the article should have been building up all along. I mean, that's basic? Along with her relationship with Allegra - because Allegra being the one to confront Iris about it just felt wrong when we've barely seen them together. Plus this episode (# 7) is  the first time they've actually addressed the issue. Again, pacing. I think they should have had the investigation of meta trafficking mystery is the previous episodes, and then have this episode's B-plot be Iris and the article.

And what was up with Allegra (who only been here a minute) being annoyed at Iris for keeping secrets? You don't need to know everything about everyone that doesn't concern you, Allegra!

All these doubts and fears and hopes that we saw in Barry's hallucinations should have been expressed in previous episodes also. We shouldn't have had two filler episodes in a row.

So whole episodes dedicated to prepping the team; then Ralph immediately gets attacked and taken out; and KF suddenly has panic attacks - and I'm not even going to go into how they made Caitlin/KF even more nonsensical than usual, which is an accomplishment! At least Cisco was on his game.

Edited by Trini
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But on to the the stuff that I liked!

This was a great episode for Barry and Ramsey/ Grant and Sendhil. We already know  Grant is good at angst/crying/emotional scenes, and they really threw it all at him this episode.

Also props to the director, director of photography, and other crew; I think they did a great job setting the scenes for Barry's hallucinations/mindset.

When Barry cries, I want to cry; so this part just about killed me:

7538394d4aad5654a702e6e210a8cac3cafe2b52(gifset here)

😭 😭 😭

I thought the hallucinations did a good job of showing Barry's fears, hopes, and pain; but all of it was dumped in this plot, and they could have hinted at some of this in previous episodes.

Also liked the return of Rage!Barry, which I don't think we've really seen since Season 1. Because he does have things to be legitimately angry about, towards the Speed Force. And good job, Grant, at subtly playing Blood Possessed-Barry after waking up.

Good idea to have Sendhil and Michelle Harrison as Grant's main scene partners. They work well off each other.

Ramsey was creepily charming. And I'm impressed at how they had Sendhil looking both angelic and monstrous in the same episode.

I was glad to see Iris and her crew running an investigation, and her finally dealing with writing essentially her husband's obituary. But again, this needed a better lead up.  Yay! of course Iris knew that wasn't her husband at the end.

Shallow note: Iris looked fabulous in all the outfits she had on in this one! Baby Nora was adorable.

Edited by Trini
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This episode reminded me of how beautiful Candice is. She has a really warm and approachable beauty that just radiates.

I love the frame of Iris with her team. It was a beautiful shot.

I like that Wallace have all of Iris' team members know about the Flash. It will make it easier to bring them into the fold and they won't feel separate or need to be separate from the main story. 

Wallace is clumsy about it but I think he is actually trying to give Iris something separate from Flash/Barry but at the same time keep her/team within the fold. 

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The “Please let me hold my baby” part was so sad. Especially because I’ve been yelling at the screen for a year about letting Oliver and Barry raise their damn kids. 
People are always trying to control Barry. He’s got to be tired of that 

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6 hours ago, Trini said:

When Barry cries, I want to cry; so this part just about killed me:

7538394d4aad5654a702e6e210a8cac3cafe2b52(gifset here)

😭 😭 😭

God, this part was so heartbreaking. Grant really sold this particular scene well. That crack in his voice was hard to listen to.

Which is why I totally get why he didn't win over Ramsey in the end. He broke him just enough to get Ramsey to overpower Barry and the Speedforce. And nothing that Barry yelled at the Speedforce about was wrong. 

I mean, if you think about it, the fact that Barry HAS to prep everyone for The Flash dying/disappearing is really rather sad. It puts a heavy burden on him when people want The Flash around more than Barry himself. He's preparing everyone for The Flash going missing and apparently that the city can't survive without The Flash...but what about preparing people for Barry dying? Why is it that it's more about The Flash? Barry has sacrificed a lot since becoming The Flash. We've kind of seen it over the years, and even last episode where Ralph had to tell Barry to be Barry and not The Flash, but Barry HAS become more of The Flash than Barry Allen. And I can see that being the point that he was trying to make. 

I think back to season 1, when Gideon had revealed that Barry created her. But in all of that time afterwards, we haven't really seen Barry achieve that goal. He's been The Flash more than Barry Allen that I could see why Barry reacted the way that he did. Barry loses, no matter what. Even though we know that he's not actually dying or leaving the show, HE doesn't have that knowledge. He thinks that he has to die in order to save all Earths. But finding out that he could save everyone AND live is something that really broke him. 

That's probably why I really liked this episode. We got to see into Barry's mind and his true feelings deep down: that he might actually be sick of being The Flash, even just a little bit, because he can't be just Barry Allen. Because, like the KF/Caitlin scenario, people care more about the meta than the actual human sometimes. And that the idea of metas has become more important than the human behind it. At least, that's kind of how I've interpreted this whole situation. 

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I guess Bloodwork's plan was to infect Flash, not Barry. He uses Elongated Man as bait so Flash can give him his blood with regenerative properties and he can control him. 

I thought the writing, acting and direction in the main plot was great. I liked Barry being tempted by a life with Iris and their baby and pointing out that things are different for him now that he's married and has seen a glimpse of his future. I also liked his anger at the Speed Force for taking on the form of his mother when the Speed Force existence is the reason why he had to bury her.

The stuff with Iris was so-so. Her first scene was trash. Barry didn't prepare all of them for Crisis. He only mentions the team. Iris should have too. What was the point of having her lie about Barry preparing everyone? Troll Iris fans that have been complaining about the lack of WestAllen during this arc? It was pathetic.

I was mad at Allegra acting entitled but I liked her other scenes with Iris.

The Frost scene was useless. I don't get what was the point of having her panic in the face of a medical emergency to then come to the conclusion that that's Caitlin's area and she needs to take a backseat when the team is in need of a doctor. It seems so obvious. They should have scrapped that part altogether and keep in the Iris scene with Joe. Iris is in need of more POV. Her scenes with Allegra and her tears when writing Barry's obituary were something but not enough.

I guess I should have been creeped out but seeing Ramsey, Barry, Iris and the others with goo coming out of their eyes and mouths just made me laugh. I am going to laugh for the entirety of 6x08. Something to console myself with just in case the episode disappoints. Joe licking that knife was hilarious.

I liked Iris realizing something was wrong with Barry. I need her to be the one who saves him. I don't want it to be a team effort. Fingers crossed that the Speed Force listing Barry's joy and light as qualities Iris fell in love with was foreshadowing.

Speaking of, the two days before Crisis timeline doesn't work. What are they going to do? Save Barry from Bloodwork only to watch him die hours later during Crisis?

8 hours ago, adora721 said:

Like others, I don't believe that Iris' behavior or the lack of concern for Iris from the team ring true.

It does ring true IMO. These people are family only when it's time for them to show up at those WestAllen family gatherings. I don't recall anyone on the team ever caring about Iris' feelings in a life or death situation.

1 hour ago, SevenStars said:

Wallace is clumsy about it but I think he is actually trying to give Iris something separate from Flash/Barry but at the same time keep her/team within the fold. 

I don't know about that. If giving Iris more were a priority he wouldn't be clumsy about it. I understand that her arc will probably pick up steam in the second half but as of now, the only thing Wallace has accomplished is cater to the OTF folks who want Iris out of STAR Labs and the faux feminists who screamed that the WestAllen focus was the reason why Iris wasn't a good character. Iris needs something in addition to WestAllen. She doesn't need something in place of WestAllen. That's just wrong.

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I will say that the part where they paralleled Reverse Flash killing Nora to Barry killing "Nora the speed force" was BRUTAL.

That was really done well - but yeesh.  Barry is gonna have that memory forever now. I felt that and it hurt.

This Barry parts of the episode really felt pitch perfect... except that initial scene with Iris, which made me so angry.

I'm just mad because this episode could have felt so much more like it was truly earned.  Instead, parts of it felt forced.  "You've prepared us ..." Oh really, Eric Wallace?  You haven't!  Maybe you've prepared Team Flash for Flash's exit, but you damn sure haven't prepared Iris or US the fans for BARRY'S exit.

Instead EVERYTHING Eric is doing is prioritizing Team Flash over Iris and her importance in the narrative.  We have RALPH telling Iris she should be spending time with Barry.  We have RALPH telling Barry that BARRY is important too.  We have WAY too many scenes with KF and Barry - there have been more of those scenes than Barry and Iris scenes.  It's gross, given Barry is supposedly dying.  But we haven't gotten any meaningful interactions with Iris and Barry - why?  Because of Crisis filming?  

Westallen is still important to fans, even if we'd like to see her having her own stories that drive the action on the show.  But her arc still feels like filler and like she's been banished away from Star Labs, so TF can do everything there.  They don't even show Joe much anymore... and no Wells either.  Just endless focus on TF.  Just endless elevation of TF to the same level of importance as Iris, even though none of them give a damn about her or her feelings.

And OF COURSE they deleted the scene with Joe and Iris.  OF COURSE THEY DID.

Edited by phoenics
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Is there any reason they put so much importance on Iris writing the article about the Flash's disappearance before he's even disappeared? That seemed very weird to me. (And it's not like they don't already have a copy.)

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Even with some problems I have with this episode (its problems I've had with the whole season) this was definitely one of the best episodes of the season. Damn it if Grant isnt one of the best criers on television, and he really carried this whole story with Barry, the Spreed Force, and Ramsey. It all felt emotionally real in a way that the last few episodes haven't been, and Grant really sold Barry's anguish and how he got to this point, with or without Ramsey's influence. 

Everything inside of Barry's mind space worked really well for me, and you could really see how much this has been building up, not just with Barry preparing to die in Crisis, but since he first became The Flash, and how much misery that has caused him over the years. As much as Barry has seemed alright with dying and having made peace with it, and has been preparing everyone else for him dying, and preparing the city to survive without him, I think that this is what he has really been feeling, what he is scared to admit to anyone...he is scared to death of dying, and heartbroken and angry that after all he has sacrificed for the greater good, he still has to die and leave behind his family and friends and whole life, and never even get to hold his baby daughter. Barry makes a great point, he never asked for any of this, he didnt set out to get powers, he was in a freak accident and ended up in a coma for months, only to find out that just about every bad thing that happened to him and his family has been because of his powers! He has been spending so much time being The Flash, that he hasn't given the time that he needs to be Barry and really deal with all of these horrible tragic things that have happened, all apparently leading to him being told he needs to die. I also think that, while Barry tries to keep a positive attitude, he has a lot of guilt about all of the people that he cared about who have died directly or indirectly because of Barry being The Flash in his mind space graveyard, and thats all really hitting him as he prepares to die for being The Flash himself.  He has saved tons of lives, but he keeps losing people in his own life, and that really has to weigh on a person. Yeah he was being influenced by Ramsey, which lead to him attacking the Speed Force (in a really creepy and effective callback to his mothers death) but those feels were all real, even if Barry is struggling with them. Barry is The Flash, but Barry is also Barry, a person who doesent want to leave his family and give up even more because people keep telling him that he has to. 

The part where Barry saw baby Nora and couldn't hold her was especially heartbreaking. Damn it, let the Arrowverse heroes raise their children! I also really liked the bit where he saw his friends and family eating dinner together, and Ramsey arrived and everyone was eating that creepy black sludge. Sendhil is excellent here, he really does seem like a threat, looking like a horrible monster and an angel of mercy at the same time, and he and Grant work really well together. I also liked the effect of his room having the black goo leaking from the walls, it looked really surreal and creepy. 

I continue to struggle with how they are writing Iris and Barry right now with Crisis coming up so soon, keeping them apart so much is just such a bizarre and crappy choice to make. I get that Iris and Barry are both kind of in denile about all of this (which I have suspected all season and this episode pretty much confirmed) but I cant imagine that Iris wouldn't want to spend as much time with her husband as possible, and that people would spend more time checking in on Iris. Hell, the people who have shown the most concern for Iris in all of this are Ralph and Alegra, who are the people who know her the least! I did like the plot with Team Citizen, but I agree with Alegra, they have much bigger issues going on right now then this investigation stuff! Crisis is coming, and Irises husband is about to die! Iris having to write Barry's obituary was absolutely heartbreaking though, and Candace totally killed it. I hate that a scene with Joe and Iris was cut, you would think that Joe would spend as much time with his kids as possible, as his son is about to die a tragic and early death, and his daughter is about to lose her husband, best friend, and father of her future child. 

Poor Ralph, at least ARGUS has been less shady lately, or else I would never have trusted them with him. I thought it was interesting how they had trouble getting a needle into his skin because he is basically rubber, its kind of like something they did over in Marvel with Luke Cage, who isnt just super strong and indestructible, his skin is basically diamond, and they run into a problem when he needs medical treatment and they cant get an IV into his arm. I always like that kind of thing in superhero stories, it adds a certain practicality to these fantastical powers and situations. 

KF having a freak out because she doesent have medical knowledge was just...huh? Can Cait just not come out anymore even when she is needed, or just wants to hang out? Why would KF even consider being the one doing medical stuff, Cait is the one with the medical degree! She should never be doing medical stuff, especially in a life or death situation! 

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4 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

God, this part was so heartbreaking. Grant really sold this particular scene well. That crack in his voice was hard to listen to.

Which is why I totally get why he didn't win over Ramsey in the end. He broke him just enough to get Ramsey to overpower Barry and the Speedforce. And nothing that Barry yelled at the Speedforce about was wrong. 

I mean, if you think about it, the fact that Barry HAS to prep everyone for The Flash dying/disappearing is really rather sad. It puts a heavy burden on him when people want The Flash around more than Barry himself. He's preparing everyone for The Flash going missing and apparently that the city can't survive without The Flash...but what about preparing people for Barry dying? Why is it that it's more about The Flash? Barry has sacrificed a lot since becoming The Flash. We've kind of seen it over the years, and even last episode where Ralph had to tell Barry to be Barry and not The Flash, but Barry HAS become more of The Flash than Barry Allen. And I can see that being the point that he was trying to make. 

I think back to season 1, when Gideon had revealed that Barry created her. But in all of that time afterwards, we haven't really seen Barry achieve that goal. He's been The Flash more than Barry Allen that I could see why Barry reacted the way that he did. Barry loses, no matter what. Even though we know that he's not actually dying or leaving the show, HE doesn't have that knowledge. He thinks that he has to die in order to save all Earths. But finding out that he could save everyone AND live is something that really broke him. 

That's probably why I really liked this episode. We got to see into Barry's mind and his true feelings deep down: that he might actually be sick of being The Flash, even just a little bit, because he can't be just Barry Allen. Because, like the KF/Caitlin scenario, people care more about the meta than the actual human sometimes. And that the idea of metas has become more important than the human behind it. At least, that's kind of how I've interpreted this whole situation. 

This explain why he has been so resigned to die. Why he accepted his death so calmly and quickly. He believe Flash is more important to the world than Barry Allen. 

This makes me mad at Iris and all of them for proven him right by not fighting harder to save him. Them just acting like Barry dying for the world/universe is acceptable and they can just jeep on moving without him is just wrong. So this makes me feel like Barry need better friends/families, lol .

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5 minutes ago, SevenStars said:

This explain why he has been so resigned to die. Why he accepted his death so calmly and quickly. He believe Flash is more important to the world than Barry Allen. 

This makes me mad at Iris and all of them for proven him right by not fighting harder to save him. Them just acting like Barry dying for the world/universe is acceptable and they can just jeep on moving without him is just wrong. So this makes me feel like Barry need better friends/families, lol .

I wouldn't say that I'm necessarily mad at Iris because, as shown in this episode as well, she's pretty much in denial and has been trying to avoid the actual day, and it hasn't been working very well. Her and Barry are both kind of living in denial and fake acceptance, when we now have seen that: a) Barry DOESN'T want to sacrifice himself; and b) Iris doesn't want to deal with a life without Barry. Both of them are acting like they're ok with it but clearly they aren't and they've put off their actual feelings for so long that it's very, very late in the game to make up for the time they lost.

And, again, WE know Barry is likely to be fine, but they don't. 

Now, everyone else involved? Yeah, I think I'm just fine with being mad at them. Caitlin, Frost, and Cisco seem more concerned with the loss of The Flash, rather than the loss of Barry Allen. Joe got to cry about it with Barry, so at least he cares, but then they kind of tossed Joe aside after that (depending on the actor; he may have a lighter schedule due to last year's injury). I'm not really sure if Ralph is more upset about Barry or The Flash, to be honest. But either way, none of these people have really expressed any anger toward Barry dying and it does suck. 

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2 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Now, everyone else involved? Yeah, I think I'm just fine with being mad at them. Caitlin, Frost, and Cisco seem more concerned with the loss of The Flash, rather than the loss of Barry Allen. Joe got to cry about it with Barry, so at least he cares, but then they kind of tossed Joe aside after that (depending on the actor; he may have a lighter schedule due to last year's injury). I'm not really sure if Ralph is more upset about Barry or The Flash, to be honest. But either way, none of these people have really expressed any anger toward Barry dying and it does suck. 

I wouldn't say that's true for Cisco. The episode that actually had plot with him dealing with it, he was trying to save Barry and expressed that he didn't want his best friend to be gone.

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Just now, Trini said:

I wouldn't say that's true for Cisco. The episode that actually had plot with him dealing with it, he was trying to save Barry and expressed that he didn't want his best friend to be gone.

That's fair. There's been points where I haven't been sure about Cisco, but you're totally right in that Cisco was the only one who did try to save Barry at first. 

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I love that Iris could tell right away that Barry wasn’t Barry and was actually Bloody Barry. “I don’t know who this guy is, telling me to stop asking questions, but he sure as hell isn't my husband!” I feel like Barry and Iris have been trying so hard to be strong for everyone (including each other) and preparing for the death of The Flash, and saying how ready they are for this, that they haven’t at all dealt Barry’s upcoming death, and now, especially with Barry, it’s all bursting out. They don’t want Barry to die, and they aren’t ready for this at all. And the speed force being like “this is your path and you must walk it” while Ramey is giving Barry a change to not only live to raise his daughter and be with his family, but also save countless lives, I can’t blame Barry, in that moment, for seeing that as the better option. As much as he has prepared everyone for the death of the Flash, he isn’t at all prepared for the death of Barry.

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2 hours ago, SevenStars said:

This makes me mad at Iris and all of them for proven him right by not fighting harder to save him.

Well, hold on there. Let's not forget how Iris reacted in 6x1 and 6x2. She was fighting for Barry to defy the Monitor's ominous declaration in those episodes.  It was only after Barry spoke to her about his vision of billions of outcomes that she started to make peace with it of sorts.  IMO, only Joe, Cisco, and Iris care for Barry more than the Flash. 

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I am finding Bloodwork- aka, Low-Rent Carnage- to be incredibly underwhelming as a villain. I think it has more to do with the way Sendhil Ramamurthy chews the scenery with his smarmy line readings, but that CG opening fight scene definitely didn't help matters.

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52 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

I am finding Bloodwork- aka, Low-Rent Carnage- to be incredibly underwhelming as a villain. I think it has more to do with the way Sendhil Ramamurthy chews the scenery with his smarmy line readings, but that CG opening fight scene definitely didn't help matters.

I have never enjoyed him in any role on any show that I've encountered him on, and this one is no different. 

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I'm rewatching the episode because apparently, I want to torture myself with Barry's pain. The scene with Barry, Ramsey and the Speedforce resembling his mother is a lot better the second time around. He really goes all in on blaming the Speedforce for turning him into a meta in the first place. It's really good acting from Grant, to see the change from the moment he learns that he can save the world AND survive, and that the Speedforce tells him that it's not his path.

First off, it's either interesting or a continuity error that this path was never shown when he saw the billions of paths for Crisis. I wonder if that was the Speedforce trying to protect him from that path, so that he wouldn't take it. If it's not a continuity error, I bet that's it. And I can't blame Barry for being pissed at the Speedforce, since it's a sign that it DOES control him. 

I also liked the little nod that Grant adds when Ramsey first shows up to turn Barry against the Speedforce. 

It was a lot less blaming other people and a lot of blaming the Speedforce itself.

It really is one of the better scenes in recent memory. I feel like the show hasn't had this much focus on Barry in quite a while, at least not one that I've liked. Last season was basically all Nora and season 4 had a lot of Ralph and the DeVoes. One of my favourite episodes of the series is from season 2, The Runaway Dinosaur, and this episode definitely had that same sort of vibe. 

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2 hours ago, Simba122504 said:

Any writers on the board? Grade Iris' article. 

Not gonna win a Pulitzer, but it was heartfelt.

Edited by adora721
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35 minutes ago, adora721 said:

Not gonna win a Pulitzer, but it was heartfelt.

Thanks. I love to hear real life writers two cents on this stuff. You know television wasn’t built to tell the truth because real life just isn’t as exciting. 😂

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I don’t know what was grosser- the black goo coming out of everyone’s mouths, or the actual composition of that meal.  Besides the mashed potatoes and baked beans, I thought I saw rice and maybe some kind of tabbouleh salad?  That’s a weird mix, and definitely an overload of carbs.  And Ramsey’s bringing Lasagna too?  Nuh uh.

Edited by Chyromaniac
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Something has felt off to me these last few episodes. I don't know if it's the pacing (there doesn't seem to be any sense of urgency with respect to the fact that Barry is going to die any day now) or if there are just too many characters/side plots going on, but it just seems to be lacking on substance and missing the heart that the first couple of seasons has. 

Like, I'm happy that they're trying to round out the cast with more female characters and develop Iris' team, but I don't feel any connection to either Kamilla or Allegra (who, EXCUSE ME, your boss doesn't owe you shit, lady, especially not divulging her superhero husband's secret identity, COME ON) and I don't particularly understand why they're focusing so heavily on the B stories when they're doing these little "half seasons" and their main character is marching off to his death. 

At this point, I'm just really ready for Crisis to be over with and them to get onto the next half of the season. 

All that being said, Grant Gustin is doing a really great job with all the material that they're giving him. I always enjoy scenes with him and the actor that plays Nora Allen (even when she's playing the SpeedForce), they have a really easy chemistry together. 

On ‎11‎/‎27‎/‎2019 at 8:45 PM, Simba122504 said:

Any writers on the board? Grade Iris' article. 

Not a writer and am far from the grammar police, but I'm pretty sure her opening line where she has "who I named the Streak" should have been "WHOM I named the Streak". (Best tip for this? If you're not sure when to use who vs. whom, you can substitute s/he for who and him/her for whom. Like, you could say, "I named HIM the Streak" but not "I named HE the Streak". I feel like I'm right about this, hahaha.)

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