Episode Discussion II: The TFGH

[Cheyanne11]

8 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Of course the irony is lost on Willow that while Nina might not see her as a person, Willow doesn't either, she's just someone's mom and fiancée. She defines herself in relation to other people, not as a distinct person of her own.

"I am Willow, fiancee of Michael and mother of Wiley" is literally how she introduced herself in the After Life (where she couldn't do us the favor of staying in).  But do go on about how Nina is the one who doesn't see you, dear.  

[Bringonthedrama]

On 3/3/2023 at 3:59 PM, dubbel zout said:

It's not "a formality" that a judge will give Spencer parental rights to Esmé's baby. Ugh. The entitlement there is so gross. 

I wonder if that's what Diane told him due to Nikolas being MIA and making the wrong assumption that Esme would not want the baby in jail, because she was there when Michael got custody of baby sister Avery. Today she mentioned that case to Laura. 

The obvious choice is to have the baby's grandmother and grand-uncle take custody. They have a home, which is where Spencer was going to live with his baby brother anyway.

Spencer telling Esme last week that he/they are "making arrangements" for the baby while she's in prison prompted this.  He messed up by trying to assert his authority rather than talking with her. He's still maturing into adulthood, plus he's angry an hurt. 

My favorite part today was Elizabeth standing up to Victor in his attempt to threaten her.

I'll give Gati credit that Liesl's scenes with Michael and Willow were really well done. She's finally being truly honest and introspective, whereas Michael looks he's worried about losing control over Willow's life. I thought he might actually pounce on Liesl in anger if she dared even say her condition for the bone marrow transplant is that they be polite to Nina in the future. 

And what, exactly, does Willow think Nina did to Wiley (aside from the  "Willow's not your mother' slip). 

Shut UP, Alexis, and back off Gregory. Geeeezzzz!

[Daisy]

6 minutes ago, Bringonthedrama said:

The obvious choice is to have the baby's grandmother and grand-uncle take custody. They have a home, which is where Spencer was going to live with his baby brother anyway.

how that never occured to Laura is beyond me. 

[statsgirl]

I wouldn't blame Laura if she didn't want custody of "Ace" though. She's in her sixties (using GF's real age) and she's got a demanding (theoretically) job that requires her to be available for emergencies at all times of the day or night. She's also looking after her granddaughter Charlotte indefinitely and she's got 4 other grandchildren who don't live with her. Taking on the care of a baby for possibly the next couple of decades is a huge commitment.

1 hour ago, perkie1968 said:

What are we thinking it is?  My first thought was medical.  We're in the home stretch (Please dog, let us be in the home stretch) of Willow's disease so someone else needs to have a disease.  Or is it possible that Gregory was caught with a younger student and its a Me Too thing? 

He was at the hospital waiting for tests when Alexis texted him so I'm thinking medical rather than Me Too. At this point most students are savvy not to get involved with professors.

43 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Of course the irony is lost on Willow that while Nina might not see her as a person, Willow doesn't either, she's just someone's mom and fiancée. She defines herself in relation to other people, not as a distinct person of her own.

More irony re complaining that Nina just wants a daughter and doesn't really care about Willow herself as a person is that this is exactly how Willow was when first getting involved with Wylie -- she wanted him because he was a baby and she was grieving over losing her own.

[lala2]

1 hour ago, Daisy said:

yeah like ii you just want to know you are being heard. which i get
and i agree with you to me - especially today - Willow's explanations just sound stupid. I think id rather prefer her saying "I simply don't want to." because her justifications compared to everything else that we know is just like "really"

Like. I am removing Carly from this.
Willow was able to forgive Harmony for
* kidnapping her.
* raising her in cults
* giving her no sense of identiy or stability
* pimping her in said cult. 
* murdering two people  to keep the secret that she kidnapped Willow
* almost murdering two other people because they figured it out. 

compared to Nina for 
* being mean to her when she was a teacher
* lying about Sonny 
* lying by omission
* telling Wiley that he had two mommies
* suing to visit her grandson once a month
*telling people she was having an affair (because that's how it looked like)
* being insta I LOVE YOU to her now that NIna knows the truth

How am I supposed to agree with that assessment, show?

 

this is going to be one of the hills i die on. The show never showed us Nina saying anything like that about Willow when it first came up.  this one person was like "well what do you think she meant when she said I'm your other mommy's mommy" and I am like... exactly what it means.. let's like pretend for one moment Nina didn't say a WORD. How was anyone going to explain to say a ten year old Wiley when he has to do his genealogy project that we ALL did - what NIna exactly was to him? Willow & Michael pretty much were playing it like they were never going to tell this kid that he was adopted. but then you have grandmother in his life. IT DOESN'T COMPUTE.

AND like we've been saying HE WAS TWO. this is why i firmly believe the show forgot how old wiley is when they really leaned into this and how it "really upset Wiley and it took him forever to get over it." like come on. What you meant was it took WILLOW a long time to get over it and I would give anything for Willow to freaking wise up and say it. 

I’m with you on this hill! I also think it’s wildly absurd to think that stupid Millow never sat Wiley down to tell him who Nina was before the visit! Why wouldn’t they? What did they say? Some rando wants to spend time with you, and we said, “Sure.” 🙄

That’s absurd. They had to tell him who she was!! It’s the only thing that makes any sense. And if they didn’t, they should have stuck around to answer any questions Wiley might have had about Nina and his relationship to her. I hate this idea that Nina was expected to lie to this kid or feed into Willow’s delusions. She told the truth and has been punished for it because Willow is a nutter who can’t handle reality! 

Also, ICAM with you about wishing Willow would just say what she really means. Just say you don’t like Nina and don’t want to be bothered her. That “protecting Wiley” crap is just that: crap!!! Nina wouldn’t hurt that brat and they ALL know that!

[DanaK]

1 hour ago, YaddaYadda said:

You're probably right. All I know is that it made me jump because this show enjoys gaslighting the audience when it comes to the Carlys.

In any case I am very much over Willow's lack of empathy when it comes to Nina specifically. She doesn't have to love her but she can make an effort to understand where she's coming from.

At the very least, Michael and Willow (and their family) should try a truce with a reduction in hostilities towards Nina (Nina the same). If I were Liesel I would have asked for that specifically

[perkie1968]

3 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

He was at the hospital waiting for tests when Alexis texted him so I'm thinking medical rather than Me Too.

Or, or, he got a student pregnant and that's why he was at the hospital because she was getting checked out. We do NOT have enough baby stories on this show.  

[Cheyanne11]

2 minutes ago, lala2 said:

I also think it’s wildly absurd to think that stupid Millow never sat Wiley down to tell him who Nina was before the visit!

They think telling the kid that he has a different bio mom will throw him into some sort of toddler-esque identity crisis.  Or at least that's the company line.  It's more like THEY want to forget Nelle ever existed and because the mention of Wiley being birthed by someone else sends Willow into a death spiral.

In conclusion, they suck.

[lala2]

2 hours ago, Cheyanne11 said:

They think telling the kid that he has a different bio mom will throw him into some sort of toddler-esque identity crisis.  Or at least that's the company line.  It's more like THEY want to forget Nelle ever existed and because the mention of Wiley being birthed by someone else sends Willow into a death spiral.

In conclusion, they suck.

Yup. Willow was being utterly delusional regarding Wiley!! She was living in a world where she was his biological mother, and Nina threatened that. Wiley was never upset because he was too freaking young to be upset. It was always Willow! 
 
And their OTT reaction to this confirmed what I always believed: they NEVER intended to tell Wiley about Nelle. They can lie to everyone that they had a plan but they didn’t. Michael didn’t learn about AJ until late in life, and they were hoping to never tell Wiley! 

They are both awful! I wish they would take their kids and leave town. They serve no purpose on this show! 

Edited March 7, 2023 by lala2

[ciarra]

1 hour ago, Daisy said:

Willow was able to forgive Harmony

Wasn't Willow kind of mean at Christmas (2021?) when Harmony wanted to give the golden child a few presents?  At the town square. 

[Gam2]

Will someone remind me why Willow and Michael hate Nina so much? This is so ridiculous!

[Mirabelle]

1) They're mad Nina told Wiley Nelle was his biological mother.

2) Michael is mad that Nina did not tell Sonny's family he was alive. Never mind "Mike" made little to no effort to figure out his real identity and in this day and age it wouldn't be that hard to do. Go on social media, call the local news station, ask the fucking police for help - those were all available to Sonny and he did none of those. It would have been a more exciting story if he had and his enemies, realizing Sonny had lost his memory, went after him. But the show decided Sonny sitting in a bar that only had two customers in 9 months (and they were underage and couldn't even drink) was more exciting.

[statsgirl]

Michael is also mad because Sonny "chose Nina" over his family. Never mind that Carly was the one who wanted the divorce, Sonny refused to off Nina when Carly and Michael wanted him to.

Sonny and Nina must pay.

[sacrebleu]

See? Now Liz should remember this feeling the next time she wants to keep SEEKRITS.

How satisfying it must be to have Victor try and intimidate her with her criming and she can just say, "yeah, cops already know, Good luck trying to find Nicholas though" 

Millow continue to be the worst. So, you're telling me to get the treatment I need to save my life, I have to entertain the idea that Nina is not the worst... Hmmmmmmm, not sure the marrow is worth it. 

[perkie1968]

1 hour ago, Gam2 said:

Will someone remind me why Willow and Michael hate Nina so much? This is so ridiculous!

What Mirabelle and Statsgirl said but also:

Nina wanted visitation with wylie.  they said no.  She took them to court where Scotty put Michael on the stand and brought up that he killed Claudia which makes him violent to women.  

[Cheyanne11]

1 hour ago, sacrebleu said:

Millow continue to be the worst. So, you're telling me to get the treatment I need to save my life, I have to entertain the idea that Nina is not the worst... Hmmmmmmm, not sure the marrow is worth it. 

I mean, I get it: death vs. life with Michael makes the former seem more palatable, but, c'mon, they are straight up acting like assholes. 

If this was a real show, Willow would start to soften towards Nina and that would cause trouble with the other Carlys, but the way this show is written that won't happen.

[Grinaldi]

Don't Nina and Willow also hate each other from back when Willow was a teacher and Nina was Charlotte's stepmom? Something about bullying? I was on the barge then. But I think the animosity predates even Nixon Falls.

[Daisy]

3 hours ago, Cheyanne11 said:

They think telling the kid that he has a different bio mom will throw him into some sort of toddler-esque identity crisis.  Or at least that's the company line.  It's more like THEY want to forget Nelle ever existed and because the mention of Wiley being birthed by someone else sends Willow into a death spiral.

In conclusion, they suck.

Yeup. I've been saying this from the word jump. they simply want to create a world where Nelle doesn't exist and if Nina wasn't in their lives it's easier to pretend this reality. Notice that while Michael is so anti Sonny, Willow still has no issues in regards to having Sonny in her life? (and as mellowed out as Sonny is, he's still a mobster and will kill people if provoked?).

 

4 hours ago, statsgirl said:

More irony re complaining that Nina just wants a daughter and doesn't really care about Willow herself as a person is that this is exactly how Willow was when first getting involved with Wylie -- she wanted him because he was a baby and she was grieving over losing her own.

yup. Willow gloomed onto that child like white on rice. I don't think she really loved him for who he was at first. it was just a baby filling that baby hole for her. God forbid Nina does the same. 

like i said. just want ONE person calling her out on her crap.  

[nilyank]

31 minutes ago, Daisy said:

yup. Willow gloomed onto that child like white on rice. I don't think she really loved him for who he was at first. it was just a baby filling that baby hole for her. God forbid Nina does the same. 

Willow loved Wylie for over a year because she thought he was the son that she gave to keep him safe. It is pretty difficult to turn off those feelings so if it anything she has always loved Wylie. 

It was once she found the truth and had so little time to truly grieve his death before she was convinced that she needed to marry Michael in order to protect Wylie from Nelle.

[ffwbe]

1 hour ago, Daisy said:

Willow gloomed onto that child like white on rice. I don't think she really loved him for who he was at first. it was just a baby filling that baby hole for her. God forbid Nina does the same. 

Speaking of that, isn’t it a bit weird that she calls her baby Jonah? That’s what Michael originally named his kid, that wasn’t really the baby’s name. Even the grave still says Jonah Corinthos and I’m pretty sure Willow referred to him as her and Michael’s kid before. I think it all helps feed her delusions because she’s never properly separated her baby and Wiley in her mind 

[Kim0820]

Is being able to keep a baby while in prison really a thing that can happen?  Or just in GH-land. 

If Spencer was trying to get custody, then it was odd that he was not present at the legal proceedings to testify or just be there as a party to the action.  GH legal procedure again. 

It might be more interesting if the baby was Spencer's.  The natural drama might be better than the contrivance - why did show have Esme have sex with Nikolas rather then just get pregnant by Spencer.  

[Asp Burger]

10 hours ago, Grinaldi said:

Don't Nina and Willow also hate each other from back when Willow was a teacher and Nina was Charlotte's stepmom? Something about bullying? I was on the barge then. But I think the animosity predates even Nixon Falls.

They did get off to a rough start when Michelle Stafford was playing Nina. Nina was at that time involved with Valentin, and she thought Willow was being unfair to Charlotte because Charlotte was "strong." In fact Charlotte really was being a brat and was one of the kids bullying Aiden. 

But almost from the moment Cynthia Watros took over the role, that was being put in the past. Nina apologized for her past behavior and was supportive of Willow during whatever Willow drama was going on (Shiloh, etc.). They had a pretty good relationship until the grandmother angle came in with Wiley, especially with Nina telling Wiley about Nelle.

[Daisy]

2 hours ago, Kim0820 said:

Is being able to keep a baby while in prison really a thing that can happen?  Or just in GH-land. 

 

I've seen it on some other shows as well.  so not just GH land.

[Blackie]

2 hours ago, Kim0820 said:

s being able to keep a baby while in prison really a thing that can happen?

 

Diane (or the social worker, I don't remember) said that in the state of New York it is possible until the kid is 18 months (or did I dream that). I think if they make a statement like that on the show it is true.

[Kim0820]

Because of the detail, the 18 months, yes. Google says

 

Nurseries inside the United States

Most prison nurseries in the United States are only open to mothers who give birth to their children while they are serving their sentence; in most states, women who give birth prior to their incarceration are not eligible, though New York is an exception.

 

Prison nursery - Wikipedia

Wikipedia

 

So if Esme weren't in NY, she would not be eligible, but NY is an exception.  That is interesting to know and that the writers actually went with reality on that.  Though it may not be a slam dunk and there could be a hearing about it.  If show goes there, I predict Esme's memory loss continues (or she suceessfully fakes through the hearing).

[mbluecpa]

18 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Ugh, I HATE this trope. It's so idiotic and boring. The drama is in dealing with whatever's going on, not everyone trying to figure it out. This fakakta show and its inability to write anything remotely compelling.

And we now have this going at least x2 with Gregory and Mason.  Gregory is barely tied to the rest of the canvas, so the writers’ “I’ve got a secret, and I’m not telling you (the audience)” is a big shoulder-shrug for me.  

The Mason/Austin thing feels like it started with the writers having no clue as to where they were taking it, and now parking coma!Nik in that orbit feels like an afterthought.  The pacing here doesn’t help since Mason isn’t on frequently.  Neither do “CUZ” and “Pawtuck” 🙄

What I am here for is badass Liz and KG.  I know Leisl is a polarizing character, but KG (and to their credit, the writers) are bringing some complexity to what used to be a very one-dimensional character.

Random thought: the show appears to spend some serious $$ on Diane’s wardrobe.  

[driver18]

13 hours ago, Asp Burger said:

They did get off to a rough start when Michelle Stafford was playing Nina. Nina was at that time involved with Valentin, and she thought Willow was being unfair to Charlotte because Charlotte was "strong." In fact Charlotte really was being a brat and was one of the kids bullying Aiden. 

But almost from the moment Cynthia Watros took over the role, that was being put in the past. Nina apologized for her past behavior and was supportive of Willow during whatever Willow drama was going on (Shiloh, etc.). They had a pretty good relationship until the grandmother angle came in with Wiley, especially with Nina telling Wiley about Nelle.

Actually, Nina and Willow put their differences aside when Stafford was still in the role. Willow stupidly had a convo about Shiloh being her baby's father at the Nurse's Ball where anyone could overhear her. Nina did, they had a convo, Shiloh overheard. Willow told Nina the truth of it and Nina felt awful, and basically that ended the antagonism between them.

When Willow went to jail to protect Wiley and lost her job, it was Nina who organized the petition to get it back for her. And basically they were on great terms until le gasp! Nina did the unthinkable and told Wiley that she was his other mommy's mommy.

And then she, ugh, refused to sign away her right to fight for the right to just see her grandchild on the potential offchance that Michael maybe might someday change his mind.

And then she chose not to ignore Sonny's decision to not want to know who he was. And the age old GH play of 'it wasn't my choice to make' didn't apply to her. (Like how you know Nina should have told Michael or such about Sonny even though he didn't want to know, but it was perfectly OK that Carly didn't tell Michael or such about Nina even though Willow didn't want to know. Uh huh.)

Oh, and she sued for the right to see her grandchild.

And, finally, yes, Nina didn't tell Willow that she boinked Willow's boyfriend's father after said boyfriend's father was stood up by her boyfriend's mother after boyfriend's mother had spent months saying I'm done with you, had married another dude, in full on I WUV YOU SOOOO MUCH glory after said boyfriend's father died.

So, yeah, Willow and Nina were on totes good terms a looong time ago, until Nina committed these so-called awful offenses.

God, Willow is the worst now.

Edited March 8, 2023 by driver18

[Bunnyto4]

On 3/4/2023 at 12:51 PM, jsbt said:

I think GH fundamentally fumbled the ball not depicting COVID (or an equivalent pandemic) affecting their workplace and canvas onscreen. This is what their show is built for. Does it need to be presented as an unending continuum of desperate and depressing struggle, no, but it was and is the right thing to do. To say nothing of the current handling of abortion and pregnancy on the show vs. IRL current events. Labine and Riche would do it all.

This was absolutely a missed opportunity which none of the soaps took advantage of along with Y&R and the women's choice discussion. Soap writing is going backwards, IMO.

[slayer2]

Spencer's entitlement over baby Damien doesn't bother me, however naive and foolish it may be. As far as I'm concerned Esme deserves the Mussolini treatment in the town square so IDGAF about her rights as a "mother" as I dont empathize with sociopaths.

That big newborn baby is fucked regardless. Cute as he may be, his mother, and both grandparents on one side are psychopaths/sociopaths and (if we are to believe the baby is a Cassadine, I don't ) the other side of the family hasn't proven much better. That baby is a nightmare waiting to happen. They should revive Tony Jones just to come snatch this demon child and remove it from the timeline post haste because the chances that it doesn't grow up a supervillain are slim to none.

44 minutes ago, Bunnyto4 said:

This was absolutely a missed opportunity which none of the soaps took advantage of along with Y&R and the women's choice discussion. Soap writing is going backwards, IMO.

That's what I'm saying. Since studios morphed into holding companies for corporations the opportunity for good storytelling has evaporated, instead they're pushing an agenda. GH used to lead the charge with BJ's heart, Simone and Tom, Stone and Robin's A.I.D.S, H.I.V story and all the talk around protected and  unprotected sex, and sharing needles and later on Robin's opportunity to have a child as an H.I.V positive woman. Monica's mastectomy, the Wards and Bradley's murder and now we have two young mothers (one not even old enough to drink) and they don't even consider abortion? Diabolical messaging.

[PatsyandEddie]

Has anyone even mentioned a DNA test on Ace to see if he’s truly Nik’s? Spencer is right there and would probably be delighted to do a swab. Maybe Ace isn’t a Cassadine at all. 

[MarciNJ]

19 hours ago, statsgirl said:

At this point most students are savvy not to get involved with professors.

too bad Kristina missed that memo a few years ago...

[MarciNJ]

17 hours ago, sacrebleu said:

Millow continue to be the worst. So, you're telling me to get the treatment I need to save my life, I have to entertain the idea that Nina is not the worst... Hmmmmmmm, not sure the marrow is worth it. 

I mean..... what is to stop Millow from saying whatever Liesl wants to hear and then not following thru?  Its not like she can get her bone marrow back, though she can certainly make their life a living hell in lots of other ways, which could be fun.....  so of course it won't happen.

[Winston Wolfe]

1 hour ago, slayer2 said:

That big newborn baby is fucked regardless. Cute as he may be, his mother, and both grandparents on one side are psychopaths/sociopaths and (if we are to believe the baby is a Cassadine, I don't ) the other side of the family hasn't proven much better.

Since Esme's amnesia appears to be real, can you imagine how un-nerving it must be to be surrounded by all these psychos and sketchy characters?  Of the people in her immediate orbit only Laura, Liz, and Diane seem to be mostly ok and even Liz has issues with Esme. She starts with Ryan and Heather as parents and it all goes downhill pretty quickly.

[tessaray]

I found it interesting that Willow didn't waste any time calling Obrecht "Aunt Liesl" when discussing her with Michael. 

I was opposed to Liz confessing but am glad to be wrong, since it gave her a bit of spunk in her convos with Esme and Victor.  At some point, I would like to see Liz and Esme talk about Franco and Steven Lars. Having both Laura and Liz in her life might help mitigate the effects Ryan's manipulation had on her.

[Daisy]

2 minutes ago, tessaray said:

I found it interesting that Willow didn't waste any time calling Obrecht "Aunt Liesl" when discussing her with Michael. 

 

yeah i noticed that too. 
guess it's okay for her to instantly gloom to lisel as family but shame nina for doing the thing

[ffwbe]

4 minutes ago, Daisy said:

yeah i noticed that too. 
guess it's okay for her to instantly gloom to lisel as family but shame nina for doing the thing

Her calling Dr. O “aunt Leisl” after what was probably their second convo ever was weird as hell, I’m sorry. So I guess it truly doesn’t matter to her what kind of person someone when she judges them is because Dr. O far from a good person. But I guess since Michael and Carly don’t hate her, it’s a moot point 

[statsgirl]

10 minutes ago, Daisy said:

guess it's okay for her to instantly gloom to lisel as family but shame nina for doing the thing

She is getting something from Liesl Something huge.  And

3 minutes ago, ffwbe said:

 But I guess since Michael and Carly don’t hate her,

it's okay. Although Michael is till looking daggers at her and of course wants to know what Liesl wants in return since everything is transactional for him.

[Cheyanne11]

4 minutes ago, ffwbe said:

Her calling Dr. O “aunt Leisl” after what was probably their second convo ever was weird as hell, I’m sorry. So I guess it truly doesn’t matter to her what kind of person someone when she judges them is because Dr. O far from a good person. But I guess since Michael and Carly don’t hate her, it’s a moot point 

That was so strange.  Like to immediately be like "ok, we're family!"  when she treats Nina like something she scraped off the bottom of her shoe.  So nice of her to tell her newfound Aunt that she wouldn't tell her not to interact with Nina.

[Daisy]

1 minute ago, ffwbe said:

Her calling Dr. O “aunt Leisl” after what was probably their second convo ever was weird as hell, I’m sorry. So I guess it truly doesn’t matter to her what kind of person someone when she judges them is because Dr. O far from a good person. But I guess since Michael and Carly don’t hate her, it’s a moot point 

that's the thing that bothers me. be consistent. 
I mean, if you want to protect your son maybe don't be married and have another child with someone who until two years ago wanted to be in the mob to take over his father. And his mother - had no qualms being the queen of the mob. AND, you want said father and son to get back to having a loving relationship. which means again.... your children are going to be smack middle in the line of fire of anything mobular. 

 

ALL OF THAT trumps NIna's overexuberance. I am sorry. 

[Daisy]

YES MOLLY IS NOT PREGNANT
WHOOOHOOO

[dubbel zout]

26 minutes ago, tessaray said:

I found it interesting that Willow didn't waste any time calling Obrecht "Aunt Liesl" when discussing her with Michael. 

I know! Yet Nina is still She Who Shall Not Be Named. Ugh, Willow sucks.

[slayer2]

47 minutes ago, Winston Wolfe said:

Since Esme's amnesia appears to be real, can you imagine how un-nerving it must be to be surrounded by all these psychos and sketchy characters?  Of the people in her immediate orbit only Laura, Liz, and Diane seem to be mostly ok and even Liz has issues with Esme. She starts with Ryan and Heather as parents and it all goes downhill pretty quickly.

Yeah, but that's her fault, nobody told her to yeet herself off the parapet.

[dubbel zout]

4 minutes ago, Daisy said:

YES MOLLY IS NOT PREGNANT
WHOOOHOOO

Me: 

[Daisy]

Willow

Just now, dubbel zout said:

Me: 

https://images.app.goo.gl/XS94Tw72m5HiWkXU6

 

that is me when Willow said she wanted to tallk to Nina and I thought she would be a normal human being. Nope. Nina goes. how are you, how are the kids doing can I help you and Willow cowily goes  "we are only going to talk about my condition, the children are off limits, I'll never tell you about them, and you will never ask."

(and again. if Nina showed NO ATTENTION, they would clap her butt so hard about not showing an interest). 

[slayer2]

33 minutes ago, tessaray said:

I found it interesting that Willow didn't waste any time calling Obrecht "Aunt Liesl" when discussing her with Michael. 

I was opposed to Liz confessing but am glad to be wrong, since it gave her a bit of spunk in her convos with Esme and Victor.  At some point, I would like to see Liz and Esme talk about Franco and Steven Lars. Having both Laura and Liz in her life might help mitigate the effects Ryan's manipulation had on her.

It wasn't all Ryan though, Esme did plenty of manipulation herself. The revenge porn and framing of innocent Trina was all Esme in fact Ryan told her to cool it with the cross-pollination vengeance and she disobeyed. She was even following Trina around while she was pregnant and supposed to be laying low.

The narrative of Esme as entirely  manipulated by Ryan bothers me and that seems to be the narrative the show is running with as well however, just because she has amnesia doesn't mean I do. This is a girl that would stir up the hornet's nest then lurk in corners and laugh about the devastation and emotional turmoil she caused. She's the GH equivalent to Terry Silver only worse because Terry has been shown to display empathy.

Edited March 7, 2023 by slayer2

[ffwbe]

Oh so Willow is still a bitch, got it. I don’t understand how someone can be this miserable all of the time 

[Cheyanne11]

7 minutes ago, Daisy said:

Willow cowily goes  "we are only going to talk about my condition, the children are off limits, I'll never tell you about them, and you will never ask."

She's truly become an awful person.  Good going, show.

[Daisy]

4 minutes ago, ffwbe said:

Oh so Willow is still a bitch, got it. I don’t understand how someone can be this miserable all of the time 

 

also lisel is no longer willow's aunt. that lasted all of 2 seconds. 

7 minutes ago, slayer2 said:

The narrative of Esme as entirely  manipulated by Ryan bothers me and that seems to be the narrative the show is running with as well however, just because she has amnesia doesn't mean I do.

thats fair. but the thing is just because esme did horrible things (doesnt excuse what she did), doesnt mean that she would have done them if Ryan hadnt groomed her period. (doesnt mean she wouldn't either). personally for me - the reason why i was always willing to give her a chance (and i got pissed when they totally pushed it and made her attack Oz) was because of the conversation she had with Laura - and (for me) her willingness to try to start anew, and Joss broke that fragile threads

[ffwbe]

The sad part is that Willow hasn’t cared for months about her early issues with Nina. Her point of contention is that Nina is involved with Michael’s father, wanted visitation with Wiley over Mciabel’s objections, and allowed Scott to bring up some already documented bad marks in Michael’s history during that trial. None of that was about her directly. 

But you mean to tell me on a show where Bobbie and Alexis literally got over their daughters having an affair with their husbands out of revenge, this is a line in the sand? Willow is a complete stepford wife who only echoes what Michael thinks. The same Michael whose wasting time trying to get revenge on his father rather than being there for her 

Edited March 7, 2023 by ffwbe

[tessaray]

21 minutes ago, slayer2 said:

It wasn't all Ryan though, Esme did plenty of manipulation herself. The revenge porn and framing of innocent Trina was all Esme in fact Ryna told her to cool it with the cross-pollination vengeance and she disobeyed. She was even following Trina around while she was pregnant and supposed to be laying low.

The narrative of Esme as manipulated by Ryan bothers me and that seems to be the narrative the show is running with as well however just because she has amnesia doesn't mean I do. This is a girl that would stir up the hornet's nest then lurk in corners and laugh about the devastation and emotional turmoil she caused. She's the GH equivalent to Terry Silver only worse because Terry has been shown to display empathy.

I think Ryan's manipulation of Esme was real - at least as long as they follow thru with amnesiac Esme being her true, base personality.  But teenage girls are all over the map. She really did seem to care about keeping Spencer (even if it was only because if she lost him she'd lose her entre into Ava's life and daddy's approval, but I think it was both that and personal) and Trina was a real threat. She was also hurt by Joss and Trina's non-acceptance. They may never be able to sort out what was Ryan, what was the adopted, orphaned hurt little girl lashing out and what was her natural inclination but that's okay. Gray characters are what make a soap fun to watch. As long as this Esme isn't a complete psychopath, I'm interested in her journey.