Episode Discussion II: The TFGH

[jsbt]

3 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Ava and Nik wish they could be Alan and Monica. Ava has it in her, but Nik is way to spineless and stupid.

Nik got a woman he was sleeping with shot in the head (I think he and Hayden had broken it off by then, but still). He's capable of going as dark as Alan and Monica went, and whatever they try to write for her today (like these insane scenes where she and Sonny are somehow friendly and civil to each other along with Ava's best friend Nina, who violated her in 2014) Ava has been a vicious killer since the jump. We have not begun to see the depths of what these two could do to each other. The issue is if there's any genuinely good storytelling in it, and so far there isn't much. The show wants to play them very sappy and purely romantic a lot of the time, and the rest of the time there's this schlocky stuff - there isn't a lot with a bite or more intelligence. There is a thornier middle ground, like the Alan and Monica heyday with Rick and Lesley, etc. but I'm fairly certain these writers are not capable of it.

Edited January 29, 2023 by jsbt

[Winston Wolfe]

On 1/22/2023 at 7:13 PM, lala2 said:

Yes, they would as we see w/Nelle! 

IMO, it’s sick that they want Wiley to hate Nelle. Nelle is dead. She can’t do anything to them anymore. At the end of the day, they won, and it still isn't enough for them!!! The woman is permanently out of their lives, and they still trash her. And they want Wiley to think she was evil and awful. It's sick and weird. They are awful human beings! 

Oh, they'd have to do many, many hours of penance and get countless hours of therapy before one could honestly call them awful human beings.

[TeeVee329]

19 hours ago, jsbt said:

It's part of the overall conservative regression of daytime in the last couple decades.

I was thinking about that with regards to LGBTQ characters, given what happened this week with Y&R having a character come out off-screen, show up in one episode with his boyfriend, and then immediately go away.  That's LGBTQ storytelling on soaps in *checks notes* 2023.

And let's look at GH.  Lucas (who?) wasn't exited, he's just invisible, even when Luke died he couldn't get on-screen.  Kristina, basically the same story, she's a ghost.  Brad, barely any screen time, nevermind with any kind of love interest, and that will likely only decrease with Britt gone.  Felix's only appearance in two years was to prop up Carly.  And then Terry, I guess, appears the most, but is that lame romance with Monica's bodyguard or whatever still a thing?

It's really f-ing lame.

Edited January 29, 2023 by TeeVee329

[30 Helens]

Wait— Monica has a bodyguard? Why would she need one, locked up there in the attic? Maybe for all the town’s children who are always there with her.

The only Terry romance I’m aware of was with Amy’s brother, the bartender. That lasted about a day. Terry only gets to come out and prop up whatever half-assed medical thing they’re doing, then leave the room so the real story can happen.

[YaddaYadda]

17 minutes ago, 30 Helens said:

Wait— Monica has a bodyguard? Why would she need one, locked up there in the attic? Maybe for all the town’s children who are always there with her.

She doesn't. The bodyguard is Yuri who was in Valentin's employ and was at the Q mansion when Val thought Bailey was his daughter. He and Terri have been dating off screen. 

[dubbel zout]

Yuri knows Terri is trans and doesn't care, and they seem happy, so I count that as a win, or at least a plus.

[DanaK]

10 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Yuri knows Terri is trans and doesn't care, and they seem happy, so I count that as a win, or at least a plus.

Does he actually know yet? Given the relationship is in its early stages, I thought Terri was waiting to tell him until it developed further (though I could be mis-remembering that she talked about that)

[TeeVee329]

How many times have they even been shown together on-screen?  Three?

[ffwbe]

23 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Yuri knows Terri is trans and doesn't care, and they seem happy, so I count that as a win, or at least a plus.

It doesn’t mean much to me. Yuri is barely a day player as was the first guy they paired Terry with until the actor moved. I doubt the guy has had more than 10 lines his entire time on the show. They’ll never pair her with a known character or give her pairing a storyline. Yet they’ll toss in snippets of them for their mainstream press promos so they can pay themselves on the back 

[Mirabelle]

1 hour ago, TeeVee329 said:

I was thinking about that with regards to LGBTQ characters, given what happened this week with Y&R having a character come out off-screen, show up in one episode with his boyfriend, and then immediately go away.  That's LGBTQ storytelling on soaps in *checks notes* 2023.

And let's look at GH.  Lucas (who?) wasn't exited, he's just invisible, even when Luke died he couldn't get on-screen.  Kristina, basically the same story, she's a ghost.  Brad, barely any screen time, nevermind with any kind of love interest, and that will likely only decrease with Britt gone.  Felix's only appearance in two years was to prop up Carly.  And then Terry, I guess, appears the most, but is that lame romance with Monica's bodyguard or whatever still a thing?

It's really f-ing lame.

Lucas couldn't even get screen time when Wiley was given back to Michael. They didn't bother to show his POV at all and that should have been good soapy stuff because Lucas lost his husband, his child, and had his entire world upended. The Carlys gave zero shits about Lucas and what he was going through. Is Lucas even in town? Who the hell knows?!! 

[lala2]

I know ppl hated Ron C but he wrote for everyone - including the gay characters. That’s why I appreciated him. The show didn’t just revolve around four characters when he was writing! During his time, I pretty much watched every single day IIRC. I didn’t skip days or sections. I was interested in the entire show and most, if not all, the characters! 

Nowadays . . . . . I stick to YT to see the  few ones I still care about. 

Edited January 29, 2023 by lala2

[threebluestars]

I am still pissed about how they did Lucas and Brad after the Wiley thing was revealed. There was SO MUCH they could have explored and it became all about Michael. I really miss Lucas (Ryan Carnes).

[dubbel zout]

The lack of Lucas, especially, in the Wiley story was inexplicable. There was barely any lip-service paid to him, either. 

How they're treating Teri isn't anything to win a GLAAD award, but at least she's presented positively and there hasn't been a gross story of her getting beaten up for being trans. Could the show do better? Of course. It could do better with everyone.

[CeChase]

I mean, absolutely.  And look at Willow.  She's being written as a zealot's wet dream.   The problem is she's probably going to live.  The best outcome in their dreams would be for her to die, thus cementing her as a martyr and a saint.   But absolutely it's been so obvious for so long now. 

Edited January 29, 2023 by CeChase

[statsgirl]

1 hour ago, DanaK said:

Does he actually know yet? Given the relationship is in its early stages, I thought Terri was waiting to tell him until it developed further (though I could be mis-remembering that she talked about that)

They got together at the Quartermaine's hospital BBQ where Ava got stabbed and Holly appeared so they have been together for a while. There was a double date with Liz and Finn IRRC at Curtis' club so they've been together for a while.

Fortunately Cassandra James has other gigs such as the critically acclaimed Sort Of.

[YaddaYadda]

4 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Fortunately Cassandra James has other gigs such as the critically acclaimed Sort Of.

Sort Of is an awesome show. And I was really happy to see her in it.

[DanaMB]

On 1/28/2023 at 9:44 AM, sunnyface said:

I'd rather Michael die.  Willow can go back to Chase.

He deserves so much better.

[jsbt]

4 hours ago, TeeVee329 said:

And let's look at GH.  Lucas (who?) wasn't exited, he's just invisible, even when Luke died he couldn't get on-screen.  Kristina, basically the same story, she's a ghost.  Brad, barely any screen time, nevermind with any kind of love interest, and that will likely only decrease with Britt gone.  Felix's only appearance in two years was to prop up Carly.  And then Terry, I guess, appears the most, but is that lame romance with Monica's bodyguard or whatever still a thing?It's really f-ing lame.

The issue with LGBT characters now is a little more nuanced than it used to be. Yes, there are a lot more of them and a lot more general visibility. But as you say, on GH they're now all but phantoms, support players. And on every soap what do almost all of them, to a person, do? Have heterosexual sex (or get raped) and produce a child. Then they get settled down with a partner and marry with said child, all before 30. So they're homogenized and put into a conservative heterosexual framework too. Brad and Lucas may not have fucked women but what was their single story? Getting married and having a baby.

All My Children knew where their money was with Bianca - her fight for her baby drove tremendous story, and they knew it was because the audience loved and cared for Bianca who they'd watched grow up. She was in frontburner story. But that doesn't change the fact that she was raped to produce a child, de-sexualized onscreen for years afterwards and almost all her stories revolved around that child - a heterocentric focus. That persists today. DAYS has some more variation with its unpopular camp villain stereotypes like Leo, but the central gay characters are also married with a kid (and leaving the show, again). It's the same framework being followed for young hetero characters who are often made as homogenous as possible. It's just more insidious with the queer characters.

Edited January 30, 2023 by jsbt

[Suicidy]

On 1/25/2023 at 4:58 PM, Blackie said:

Original Trina was a very good friend to Cam and had a fiesty personality who I think would give Joss some feedback on how she treats friends and for bringing her mob boyfriend into their shared dormroom for sex. NuTrina has lost that spunk, but I hope she can regain some of it.

It’s just bad writing for an awful character.

1 hour ago, jsbt said:

The issue with LGBT characters now is a little more nuanced than it used to be. Yes, there are a lot more of them and a lot more general visibility. But as you say, on GH they're now all but phantoms, support players. And on every soap what do almost all of them, to a person, do? Have heterosexual sex (or get raped) and produce a child. Then they get settled down with a partner and marry with said child, all before 30. So they're homogenized and put into a conservative heterosexual framework too. Brad and Lucas may not have fucked women but what was their single story? Getting married and having a baby.

All My Children knew where their money was with Bianca - her fight for her baby drove tremendous story, and they knew it was because the audience loved and cared for Bianca who they'd watched grow up. She was in frontburner story. But that doesn't change the fact that she was raped to produce a child, de-sexualized onscreen for years afterwards and almost all her stories revolved around that child - a heterocentric focus. That persists today. DAYS has some more variation with its unpopular camp villain stereotypes like Leo, but the central gay characters are also married with a kid (and leaving the show, again). It's the same framework being followed for young hetero characters who are often made as homogenous as possible. It's just more insidious with the queer characters.

Of all the gay characters you listed, I think Brad is the only one that’s actually entertaining.  He deserves more screen time.  Although he’s some what limited right now without Britt to play off of.  They had very good chemistry in their scenes.

[Suicidy]

10 hours ago, jsbt said:

Nik got a woman he was sleeping with shot in the head (I think he and Hayden had broken it off by then, but still). He's capable of going as dark as Alan and Monica went, and whatever they try to write for her today (like these insane scenes where she and Sonny are somehow friendly and civil to each other along with Ava's best friend Nina, who violated her in 2014) Ava has been a vicious killer since the jump. We have not begun to see the depths of what these two could do to each other. The issue is if there's any genuinely good storytelling in it, and so far there isn't much. The show wants to play them very sappy and purely romantic a lot of the time, and the rest of the time there's this schlocky stuff - there isn't a lot with a bite or more intelligence. There is a thornier middle ground, like the Alan and Monica heyday with Rick and Lesley, etc. but I'm fairly certain these writers are not capable of it.

Since the current Nik actor is leaving, he will either be recast, or written out.  If they recast, maybe they can get someone better.   It in any event, I doubt they’re going to get someone of Stuart Damon’s caliber.  Even though the writing would kneecap the character’s potential regardless.

[30 Helens]

7 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

The bodyguard is Yuri who was in Valentin's employ and was at the Q mansion when Val thought Bailey was his daughter. He and Terri have been dating off screen. 

I am familiar with Yuri, but I have no recollection of any scenes he’s had with Terry. And I watch every day. So I guess that demonstrates just how invested the show is in making their relationship interesting. 

[tessaray]

9 minutes ago, 30 Helens said:

I am familiar with Yuri, but I have no recollection of any scenes he’s had with Terry. And I watch every day. So I guess that demonstrates just how invested the show is in making their relationship interesting. 

Well, at least they had a cute start when Leo mixed up a love potion (for Chase and Brook Lynn?) and we got to speculate on which couple got the glasses.

[TeeVee329]

6 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

The lack of Lucas, especially, in the Wiley story was inexplicable. There was barely any lip-service paid to him, either. 

Made all the more infurating by Shelly Altman bragging about how they were being so groundbreaking and progressive with Lucas and Brad because they were gay characters whose story wasn't about BEING gay.  This was a classic, soapy, family story that really would have done wonders for Lucas, but Lucas was invisible in it.

[Asp Burger]

Shelly and Jean were inordinately proud of their breast-feeding story, with Olivia taking on the mayor. The bar for pride was low. That may be the worst "issue" storyline I've ever seen on GH.  

I'm several pages late to this, but with regard to Nina stepping back and telling Willow, "I am open to a relationship, but the ball is in your court, and I won't try to contact you again": That would be great in real life, but the Carlys are not rational even for soap characters. There are so few places to go in this town (the hotel and everything attached to it, the hospital, the PC Grill, Kelly's, Curtis's club, the docks, the park, that town square place where they have public events, and some private residences). Even if Willow got off the elevator and Nina was already standing at the nurses' station talking to Liesl, she'd spin it as Nina turning up everywhere she goes. "My God, Michael, will this woman never leave me alone?" 

[ffwbe]

1 hour ago, Asp Burger said:

Shelly and Jean were inordinately proud of their breast-feeding story, with Olivia taking on the mayor. The bar for pride was low. That may be the worst "issue" storyline I've ever seen on GH.  

What I gathered from Shelly’s exit interview was that she was the driving force behind all of those social and medical issue SLs that we got from 2016-2019. Basically trying to circle back to Claire Labine’s version of the show. However, most of the concepts weren’t great and even the ones that were ok were poorly written. I’m fairly sure out of all of them, Mike’s Alzheimers storyline was the only one out of the bunch that received good feedback 

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, Asp Burger said:

Shelly and Jean were inordinately proud of their breast-feeding story, with Olivia taking on the mayor. The bar for pride was low. That may be the worst "issue" storyline I've ever seen on GH. 

OMG, that story was so awful, not to mention at least five years too late.

1 hour ago, Asp Burger said:

Even if Willow got off the elevator and Nina was already standing at the nurses' station talking to Liesl, she'd spin it as Nina turning up everywhere she goes. "My God, Michael, will this woman never leave me alone?" 

They've been doing that already. Nina was sitting in the park—a public space—and Wiley ran up to her, thrilled to see her, and the dolts make it as if Nina had been lying in wait. Nina goes to Kelly's for a meal and the dolts accuse her of following them. Nina can't win for losing.

19 minutes ago, ffwbe said:

I’m fairly sure out of all of them, Mike’s Alzheimers storyline was the only one out of the bunch that received good feedback 

Even that one was problematic for its emphasis on Sonny rather than on Mike.

[Daisy]

I can't even with Drewfus and Carly. 
but Nina, i get you are mad.  but really, just ignore them. 

[ffwbe]

I’m so confused how Carly/Drew are supposed to be secret. They act like a couple in public and spend every possible minute around each other. Not only do people suspect, they’ve already told Sonny, Michael, Joss and Olivia. 

Edited January 30, 2023 by ffwbe

[Daisy]

Carly: Nina has no self control. 
Me: Show - having Carly say this is stupid STUPID

Again, I have zero sympathy for Willow. Nina was right. (though she should have offered if not her someone  else.) she shouldn't be trying to make everyone feel better. 

I can't even w/Portia or Jordan (though i am kind of liking BK's straight hair, i do miss the curls). 

How is Ned involved w/the insider trading?

Also again. Sonny is the voice of reason and I agree with him. #strangemadworld

[dubbel zout]

7 minutes ago, Daisy said:

How is Ned involved w/the insider trading?

He's the one who realized what Carly was up to and threatened to go to the SEC. Sadly, he hasn't yet.

[ffwbe]

8 minutes ago, Daisy said:

How is Ned involved w/the insider trading?

When Drew was acting like a jackass towards Ned and said he would try again to take over ELQ and cut him out, Ned pointed out that he could turn him and Michael in for insider trading. That’s apparently when Drew first heard the term. He later went to Alexis who basically laughed at him and told him it was a clear cut case

[Daisy]

1 minute ago, ffwbe said:

When Drew was acting like a jackass towards Ned and said he would try again to take over ELQ and cut him out

Stupid Drewfus. whats his beef with Ned anyway? also thanks. I would have laughed at him, like Alexis did

 

 

3 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

He's the one who realized what Carly was up to and threatened to go to the SEC. Sadly, he hasn't yet.

got it. do it ned.

[ffwbe]

I only half watched today, but if Ned was mentioned, I’m guessing Nina tips off the SEC but everyone assumes it was Ned behind it and attacks him. Meanwhile, he didn’t seek revenge when they actually broke the law. Not to mention being condescending jerks to him and saying he should vote with them out of family loyalty when they were actively screwing him over for no real reason other than they felt like it.

[Desperado]

I’m worried about Nina going off script and apparently, so is Sonny. 😂 

I thought that her convo with Willow was fine, she didn’t tell her she didn’t want to have anything to do with her like she said, just that she didn’t know her well enough to spill her guts to her, which is perfectly fair and a much better reaction than she’s had towards her so far.

I never thought I would say this, but I like Sasha now and it was nice to see her have a good convo with Maxie, although the nail props were a bit much. IIRC, you really don’t leave your hands there very long. “I can’t touch you, my nails are wet!” Whatever. Glad that the garage story is out to more people before the Gladys tornado does any damage.

 

31 minutes ago, Daisy said:

I can't even w/Portia or Jordan (though i am kind of liking BK's straight hair, i do miss the curls). 

I can’t either. It’s so high school and demeaning to the actresses.

Good thing Anna and Valentine weren’t caught in flagrante by his daughter.

Are more than middle age couple into sex that much? I closed that book a while ago and have no clue.

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, Daisy said:

Nina, i get you are mad.  but really, just ignore [Drewfus and Carly]. 

I wouldn't mind her trolling those two whenever she sees them, but that's as far as she should go. Nothing good will come of any other action.

Stella was weirdly pushy about taking Trina to GH and seeing Portia.

31 minutes ago, Desperado said:

1 hour ago, Daisy said:

I can't even w/Portia or Jordan (though i am kind of liking BK's straight hair, i do miss the curls). 

I can’t either. It’s so high school and demeaning to the actresses.

It sure is, on both counts. And it's so boring to watch. They have the same sniping conversation every time. Ugh, and now we have that stupid divorce-paper "threat." NOBODY CARES.

Finally, Marshall gets genetic testing. I wish he'd told Curtis before getting the test—that scene smacked of an info dump more than a heartfelt admission, IMO—but at least Marshall realized he was in an old, unhelpful pattern and is trying to break it.

Michael is such a punk. He says to Nina, threateningly, "Just a few minutes," as if Nina were planning to strangle Willow with her IV. Nina said she wasn't going to put Willow at risk; considering how everyone treats Nina, how about giving her the benefit of the doubt this once?

"I need him to live in fear of me in case he hurts you." Hee. Go, Felicia!

I really liked the Sasha/Maxie talk. The grief stuff was really good.

Willow was surprisingly civil to Nina, and I think her reaction to Nina's suggestion was logical for now.

As always, #KeepTrinaTaggert's

[LexieLily]

1 hour ago, ffwbe said:

I’m so confused how Carly/Drew are supposed to be secret. They act like a couple in public and spend every possible minute around each other. Not only do people suspect, they’ve already told Sonny, Michael, Joss and Olivia. 

I don't understand how it's Drew and Carly's relationship that would raise the insider-trading red flag and not the fact that Carly's son is the CEO of ELQ. 

[PatsyandEddie]

I hate Carly and Drewfus. What a waste of CM. 
Maxie and Sasha was surprisingly good. I hope Maxie supports Sasha when she finds out Gladys has signed over Brando’s garage to Mrs Wu. The place means so much to Sasha that she will be heartbroken. 
Portia is on my last nerve. Zip it  

Willow seems to be softening towards Nina but I have no doubt Michael and his overbearing mother will put the kibosh on that ASAP. 

[Desperado]

4 minutes ago, PatsyandEddie said:

Willow seems to be softening towards Nina but I have no doubt Michael and his overbearing mother will put the kibosh on that ASAP. 

Yes, I see a “Willow in a coma” immediate future and them closing ranks against Nina under the guise of “that’s what Willow would’ve wanted”.

[dubbel zout]

15 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

I don't understand how it's Drew and Carly's relationship that would raise the insider-trading red flag and not the fact that Carly's son is the CEO of ELQ. 

I think the idea is that a SO is more likely to share that sort of information than a child. The SEC has never met Carly, though, and her absolute refusal to see a boundary.

[Daisy]

1 minute ago, dubbel zout said:

I think the idea is that a SO is more likely to share that sort of information than a child. The SEC has never met Carly, though, and her absolute refusal to see a boundary.

Not to mention that Michael wasn't the CEO of ELQ at the time. 

[LexieLily]

3 minutes ago, Desperado said:

Yes, I see a “Willow in a coma” immediate future and them closing ranks against Nina under the guise of “that’s what Willow would’ve wanted”.

The ironic part of something like that is that Michael and Willow aren't married so legally he wouldn't be her next of kin and Nina might actually be, as a biological relative. If Nina wanted to, then, she could keep Michael and Carly away. Heh.

[Daisy]

1 minute ago, LexieLily said:

The ironic part of something like that is that Michael and Willow aren't married so legally he wouldn't be her next of kin and Nina might actually be, as a biological relative. If Nina wanted to, then, she could keep Michael and Carly away. Heh.

and the thing is. Nina wouldnt do that because Willow wouldn't want that. 

[dubbel zout]

12 minutes ago, Daisy said:

Not to mention that Michael wasn't the CEO of ELQ at the time. 

That doesn't matter; Michael knew what was going on.

[Daisy]

1 minute ago, dubbel zout said:

That doesn't matter; Michael knew what was going on.

oh i know, and I want him to be busted for it too. but the question was wouldn't Michael being the CEO of ELQ raise flags, but it "wouldn't" because Michael wasn't CEO of ELQ at the time. It was Valentin.

[YaddaYadda]

Unless Esme gives birth at the same time as Willow, it seems the baby speculations are dead, which I'm supremely glad for.

Willow did seem to be softening toward Nina and she was looking at her when she was wheeled into the elevator, right before the doors closed. But who knows. This whole storyline has been a massive dud. 

Dud #2. Trina's paternity. And have a tall glass of STFU, Portia. For someone keeping a big juicy life altering secret, she sure likes running her mouth at Jordan. Take a seat, liar.

Is this story about the insider trading going to happen or can we move on? I'm not here for this thing lasting 5 years. And Carly and Drewfus can both get effed.

Sonny being the voice of reason for anything is the twilight zone. He should also wash his hands off Michael. Puff fish is such a little bitch and a turd.

I liked the interaction between Sasha and Maxie. I don't know where Sash will land, but I hope they're done with the torture porn. 

[ffwbe]

32 minutes ago, Daisy said:

Not to mention that Michael wasn't the CEO of ELQ at the time. 

At the time, he was CEO of Aurora. He was just as culpable as Drew considering they were in all of the those convos with Carly together. They chose to ignore his involvement once they decided to use this as an excuse for Drew/Carly to not be public as their “angst”,  or whatever the show was pretending because it wasn’t even a slight deterrent in their relationship 

[dubbel zout]

31 minutes ago, Daisy said:

oh i know, and I want him to be busted for it too. but the question was wouldn't Michael being the CEO of ELQ raise flags, but it "wouldn't" because Michael wasn't CEO of ELQ at the time. It was Valentin.

It still doesn't matter. If you know the news and pass it on, that's illegal.

[StaceyNotStacie]

Watching the scenes with Charlotte and Valentin. The actress seems so grown up and all I’m thinking about in her scenes is that if they ever bring Lulu back, she will probably be close to adulthood. Between the coma and finding her already at school age, it will seem like she literally missed her entire childhood. 

[Fellaway]

2 hours ago, ffwbe said:

I’m so confused how Carly/Drew are supposed to be secret. They act like a couple in public and spend every possible minute around each other. Not only do people suspect, they’ve already told Sonny, Michael, Joss and Olivia. 

And, also, how is this "all going to be over soon," Carly? The statute of limitations on insider trading is a number of years, I would guess.

[WendyCR72]

18 minutes ago, StaceyNotStacie said:

Watching the scenes with Charlotte and Valentin. The actress seems so grown up and all I’m thinking about in her scenes is that if they ever bring Lulu back, she will probably be close to adulthood. Between the coma and finding her already at school age, it will seem like she literally missed her entire childhood. 

I'm fine with this. Charlotte should not have existed to begin with. The way she was conceived was awful. (And yes, I know it is not her fault, but still.)