Episode Discussion II: The TFGH

[TVbitch]

In case anyone cares, I froze the frame on that check, and it was for $5,000. Carly Corinthos would be mortified to be shaken down for such a paltry sum, but she's Carly Spencer now and has to watch her pennies.

I really hope RoHo comes back as Lucky, but knowing this show, he'll come back as nuNik and the dark prince will become a sandy blond with a penchant for talking with his mouth full.  

[Cheyanne11]

1 hour ago, YaddaYadda said:

She is doing all of that, but I'm sure she'll try and deflect the blame onto Drew because he is keeping the Willow is sick secret from her. 

"If you had just told me the truth I could've gotten Willow the treatment she needed!  Why would you keep this from me, Drew????"

[KayVeeTeeVee]

On 12/10/2022 at 9:47 PM, Winston Wolfe said:

It makes sense, though. The way JK plays Cyrus, it's clear that the character spends a lot of his available time reading, explaining him having at least one Scripture in his holster at all times.

Agreed. Back in the day Anna frequently mentioned Sean Donnelly as her mentor. Speaking of which, this S/L would be a perfect occasion to loop in Sean's daughter, Anna's namesake.

Anna did mention Annie the other day.

[Katy M]

31 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

I really hope RoHo comes back as Lucky, but knowing this show, he'll come back as nuNik and the dark prince will become a sandy blond with a penchant for talking with his mouth full. 

Can I hope he doesn't come back as anybody.  Nothing against him, but he's already played 3 different characters on this show.

28 minutes ago, Cheyanne11 said:

"If you had just told me the truth I could've gotten Willow the treatment she needed!  Why would you keep this from me, Drew????"

I don't even care that she didn't tell Willow.  But when she went got the super secret DNA test and then specifically lied to Drew and is now actively covering up and paying people to lie, that obviously takes it to another level.  Just not telling Willow in the first place can be somewhat justified with it was Harmony's secret and she didn't want me to tell. Everything after that, hard no.  So, yeah, Drew is keeping Willow's secret.  Not out and out lying and hiring other people to pretend Willow doesn't have leukemia. I don't know how she could even make the two things look anywhere close to equal.

[racked]

3 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Can I hope he doesn't come back as anybody.  Nothing against him, but he's already played 3 different characters on this show.

Yeah I don’t need him as yet another character, but I especially don’t want to see him try to play Lucky. I remember RoHo being dynamic in the past but, a few moments with Britt aside, he’s been a bore as Austin. The show seems to have no interest in Lucky or any Spencers anyway. 

[ffwbe]

I do chuckle that even the biggest Carly fans don’t expect her to be a halfway decent human being unless there’s a really, really, really good reason or she stands to benefit from it in some way. 

[CeChase]

I loved Roger's Todd on GH.  I didn't watch OLTL so I don't know what he was like there, but I really liked Todd.  However, I am aware of the rape storyline with that character, so I don't think they can bring him back.  But now that the lawsuit is gone with the wind, IMO they made a big mistake not bringing Easton back as McBain, who I also loved on GH.  If they had only waited and never brought him back as Finn.  That's just my opinion and I realize everyone is not going to agree.  Or anyone.  lol

Edited December 14, 2022 by CeChase

[Cobalt Stargazer]

5 hours ago, Cheyanne11 said:

"If you had just told me the truth I could've gotten Willow the treatment she needed!  Why would you keep this from me, Drew????"

"It wasn't my story to tell."

[30 Helens]

21 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Look, EMT/firefighter blackmailing Carly. Carly carries around a chequebook? Who does that in 2022?

Wait, she wrote a check? Did she also write “blackmail for evul Nina” in the memo line?

18 hours ago, Corvino said:

 I am very, very happy about Ryan and Heather's retcon of a past. In my spotty past history of watching, I never came across Heather before her current incarnation (had to look her up in a wiki to find out why she was a dangerous criminal lunatic), so I apologize to people who feel that this is an outrage on her past history. But as a new acquaintance doing a funny new thing, she's great, and her interaction with Ryan is so very satisfying. 

I am generally against recasting a veteran actor like Robin Mattson, who had been in this role for decades, but I am fully on board with Ally Mills. Yes, her take on Heather is a bit different, but it works for me. And honestly, I don’t think RM’s Heather would have been as good in this current storyline. I just don’t see her meshing with Ryan as well, either in terms of chemistry or personality. Zero outrage here.

2 hours ago, Katy M said:

Can I hope he doesn't come back as anybody.  Nothing against him, but he's already played 3 different characters on this show.

I think he has a competition going with ME to see who can be recast the most number of times.

Seriously, I don’t think Austin’s going anywhere. They are just starting to unfold the story of his deep, dark secret. (We should learn the truth by 2024.) I do wish they would ditch Austin, though. He’s a snooze. I wouldn’t mind if RH returned as someone else, but I agree, not Lucky. I just can’t picture that working.

[Cheetara1986]

I know violence is never the answer, but when Spencer squared up to Dex and punched Dex because he saw how much Cam doesnt like him, made me tear up a bit 🤣. Forget about Mini snarly, you have love from your cousin, Cam.

So is Deputy Do Gooder the Hook or is getting hooked and Trina will be guilty in either staying with him or pushing Spencer away even more?

[Katy M]

2 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

"It wasn't my story to tell."

And "I had no idea you were lying and that you knew who her mother was all along.  Why would I think that?"

[YaddaYadda]

11 minutes ago, Cheetara1986 said:

So is Deputy Do Gooder the Hook or is getting hooked and Trina will be guilty in either staying with him or pushing Spencer away even more?

Option B, me think. Officer pretty but too dumb to live went to investigate whatever was in the file on his own. His ass is gonna get hooked and the perpetrator will know that the PCPD were closing in even though we did not see the PCPD work on this at all. 

I couldn't with the Joss/Trina conversation. On the one hand it fits their age bracket. On the other hand I cannot be bothered with either of them.

The Britt/Brad scenes weren't bad and the Leisl/Nina/Sonny scenes weren't bad either, although it felt Leisl actress trying to force some tears out was very meh.

[perkie1968]

15 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

So is Deputy Do Gooder the Hook or is getting hooked and Trina will be guilty in either staying with him or pushing Spencer away even more?

I originally thought the hooker would be Rory in drag but after today, I'm guessing he's the latest victim and dead or alive, Trina will feel guilty for almost dumping him for Spencer's sorry butt.  

Also, Rory honey, if you get to a door and it swings open like that, maybe call for backup rather than go in and likely get yourself killed/maimed/stabbed/hooked.  Not the brightest tool that one.  

36 minutes ago, Cheetara1986 said:

I know violence is never the answer, but when Spencer squared up to Dex and punched Dex because he saw how much Cam doesnt like him,

Hmm, I'm sitting at the opposite table on this.  Spencer was pissed about Trina and Dex was there, so Spencer let out his frustrations and punched him in the face.  Dex had literally done nothing.  spencer approached him.  Spencer pushed his buttons about Sonny.  Dex was leaving and Spencer punched him.  Toss his snivelly rich little butt back in Pentonville and add time to his sentence.  

[Daisy]

so in the promo - Joss is screaming at Cam #FreeCam.
is it because Spencer hit Baby Jason?

(is joss sleeping w/Baby Jason?)

[CeChase]

omg Spencer punched Dex when he is on parole?  I don't want him to go back to prison, I want big movement on Sprina.  I hope that's not what they're doing. 

[dubbel zout]

I liked Maxie and Cody. The "We're friends...friendly?" bit was nice.

"I'm trapped at Windemere for the rest of my sentence." Wah, wah, wah, Spencer. Stop whining. At least you're out of Pentonville.

Of course Port Charles has a zoo, LOL.

41 minutes ago, Cheetara1986 said:

I know violence is never the answer, but when Spencer squared up to Dex and punched Dex because he saw how much Cam doesnt like him, made me tear up a bit

Punching anyone when Spencer is just out of prison was a really dumb move. Dex will never press charges or tell Sonny, but that doesn't make it right. And really, Dex works for Spencer because he works for Sonny? Pentonville didn't do much to make Spencer less of a turd.

4 minutes ago, perkie1968 said:

I originally thought the hooker would be Rory in drag but after today, I'm guessing he's the latest victim and dead or alive, Trina will feel guilty for almost dumping him for Spencer's sorry butt.  

Ugh, this is what I think, too. I really hate how Trina is agonizing over those two nitwits. She's allowed to have a different level of feelings for Rory than he has for her, and she's also allowed to want to stay as far away as possible from Spencer regardless of her feelings for him.

[racked]

58 minutes ago, Cheetara1986 said:

I know violence is never the answer, but when Spencer squared up to Dex and punched Dex because he saw how much Cam doesnt like him, made me tear up a bit 🤣. Forget about Mini snarly, you have love from your cousin, Cam.

So is Deputy Do Gooder the Hook or is getting hooked and Trina will be guilty in either staying with him or pushing Spencer away even more?

I really love the Cam and Spencer friendship. Yes violence is wrong but the main person to blame here is Joss. 

[Cheyanne11]

35 minutes ago, perkie1968 said:

I originally thought the hooker would be Rory in drag but after today, I'm guessing he's the latest victim and dead or alive, Trina will feel guilty for almost dumping him for Spencer's sorry butt.  

If he gets hooked I guess that officially means Esme is off the hook (heh), too.  

Great--more sympathy coupling.  Didn't they just do that with Chase and Willow?

[YaddaYadda]

29 minutes ago, Cheyanne11 said:

Great--more sympathy coupling.  Didn't they just do that with Chase and Willow?

It worked out so well the first time. Why would they not use it again? Why retire a winning recipe?

I can't even imagine how this thing will go. But I guess we're about to be treated to all of Rory's family showing up by his bedside to tell Trina how much he's talked about her.

[ffwbe]

1 hour ago, CeChase said:

omg Spencer punched Dex when he is on parole?  I don't want him to go back to prison, I want big movement on Sprina.  I hope that's not what they're doing. 

I doubt it. It is probably just a plot point for Joss to make it obvious that she has feelings for Dex or accidentally slip that she kissed him. 

[Semiglued]

2 hours ago, Daisy said:

so in the promo - Joss is screaming at Cam #FreeCam.
is it because Spencer hit Baby Jason?

(is joss sleeping w/Baby Jason?)

Joss is the worst. She’s been cheating on her boyfriend and no one is ever going to actually yell at her for being cruel to a boy who has been nothing but sweet and kind to her. 

[Melgaypet]

19 minutes ago, Semiglued said:

Joss is the worst. She’s been cheating on her boyfriend and no one is ever going to actually yell at her for being cruel to a boy who has been nothing but sweet and kind to her. 

You know, I was thinking about Joss the other day. I was thinking that if she were any other character, I might have more patience with her not navigating this situation perfectly. She's pretty young, after all, and this thing with Cam is her first real relationship (I mean, there was Oscar, but did anyone really take that seriously?) and she doesn't know how to handle falling out of love - if she ever genuinely was in love - with a guy who hasn't done anything wrong, plus there's the confusing factor of her attraction to a new, "dangerous" guy. I remember being 20, and being a tiresome jerk to my college boyfriend, hoping he'd break up with me, because I didn't know how/was too immature to break up with him myself, because somehow in my head, I wasn't "allowed" to break up with a guy just because I wasn't really into him anymore.

But Joss isn't any other character. She's Carly, Jr. If she seemed confused or conflicted, or if they brought in her family history and that she's only ever seen relationships end by blowing up pretty spectacularly...but none of that is happening. She just seems vaguely into Baby Jason and vaguely bothered by Cam's existence whenever she's reminded of him and vaguely irritated by this situation that isn't magically resolving itself the way she wants, whatever that might be.

I called her Carly, Jr above, but maybe that's wrong. Say what you will about Young Carly, but she wasn't vague. No matter how ridiculous or irrational her feelings, there was no doubt about what they were and no doubt about what she wanted.

[Desperado]

Good to know that Spencer is still a top grade A-hole. And I don’t even like Dex.

i was entirely surprised to see that Cam with longer hair is quite hot. Be Esme’s hero and mine Cam, and get rid of this ridiculous  “Esme will be a forever prisoner” storyline!

[DanaK]

Sonny helped Liesel with the emotional fallout of Britt’s illness but he shouldn’t have been eavesdropping on Nina and Liesel

[YaddaYadda]

59 minutes ago, Desperado said:

Good to know that Spencer is still a top grade A-hole. And I don’t even like Dex.

As dumb as what Spencer did was, it was nice to know that someone has Cam's back at least. 

[dubbel zout]

Someone upthread wondered what the difference was between Nina lying about Sonny and Carly lying about Willow. For me it's that Mike didn't actively pursue trying to figure out who he was and if he had family somewhere, whereas as Willow desperately wants to know and Carly is putting up roadblocks every step of the way. Had Mike decided he wanted to know, I think Nina would have told him the truth, or at least pointed him in the right direction to figure it out for himself. There's no way Carly is going to do that. The suggestions above aren't even facetious. I can totally see her saying any of those things to justify her behavior.

[Cheyanne11]

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

Had Mike decided he wanted to know, I think Nina would have told him the truth, or at least pointed him in the right direction to figure it out for himself. There's no way Carly is going to do that.

Yeah, she's only going to tell the truth when Willow's life literally is at stake.  Even then I'm waiting for her to try and work an end-around with a bone marrow drive and Nina discovers she's a match. 

Today: is Trina that tiny or is Joss just that tall?  I never noticed the height difference.  But, lord, Joss telling Trina she has to come clean with Rory when she can't bring herself to do that with Cam.  All talk, all talk.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Cheyanne11

[Kiki777]

7 hours ago, Cheyanne11 said:

Today: is Trina that tiny or is Joss just that tall?  I never noticed the height difference.  But, lord, Joss telling Trina she has to come clean with Rory when she can't bring herself to do that with Cam.  All talk, all talk.

Trina is quite petite!  I was watching GH at my parents’ house a few months ago and my mom exclaimed ‘that little girl is so cute!’

[Kim0820]

On 12/13/2022 at 9:00 PM, ffwbe said:

They stole that from GH Twitter. I remember a ton of complaints about their earlier scenes and how he was talking down to her. That Ted Talk comment was definitely from there. It was just weird to include it now because they’re attempting to course correct scenes that happened months ago. They barely share scenes and the ones they had the past 3 months didn’t have the same vibe. 

IMO the writers should come up with their own story rather than letting online be an influence.  It's a highly self selected minority of people.  No wonder the writing sucks and the ratings have gone down.  Someone's always going to kvetch online about something and the audience that does not go online is likely to be bigger.

[KittenPokerCheater]

If I were Carly (thank god I am not), I would be more FURIOUS at Michael for not telling her about Willow’s cancer than I would be at Drew. (Michael knows, right?  I can’t keep track anymore).

Also, why is Drew so invested in helping Willow?  Is this some weird chem test on the part of the writers?

[DanaK]

2 hours ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

If I were Carly (thank god I am not), I would be more FURIOUS at Michael for not telling her about Willow’s cancer than I would be at Drew. (Michael knows, right?  I can’t keep track anymore).

Also, why is Drew so invested in helping Willow?  Is this some weird chem test on the part of the writers?

Michael does know; Willow finally told him after she learned her cancer was in Stage 4

[tessaray]

16 hours ago, DanaK said:

Sonny helped Liesel with the emotional fallout of Britt’s illness but he shouldn’t have been eavesdropping on Nina and Liesel

And yet I'm glad he did. It felt natural to me, Sonny being curious and a little concerned. Whatever affects Liesl affects Nina to a degree and now he can be there for Nina without any long, drawn-out angst about breaking a confidence. 

Which leads me to wonder if Britt and Willow's health crises will peak at the same time. That could be soapy. 

[Mirabelle]

2 hours ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

If I were Carly (thank god I am not), I would be more FURIOUS at Michael for not telling her about Willow’s cancer than I would be at Drew. (Michael knows, right?  I can’t keep track anymore).

Also, why is Drew so invested in helping Willow?  Is this some weird chem test on the part of the writers?

It's so he has something to do. It's not like he's been imprisoned for the past few years and is possibly a pawn in a scheme for global domination or has business in trouble or may be a target for the feds for insider trading. 

[statsgirl]

2 hours ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

Also, why is Drew so invested in helping Willow?  Is this some weird chem test on the part of the writers?

There is no storyline for Drew other than as the Dr. Phil to Carly and her family. He doesn't even seem to be interested spending much time with his own child, the thought of who saved him while he was imprisoned, much less running his company. His whole life right now revolves around Carly and her family and helping Willow with the resources BM's Drew got him makes him feel useful.

I thought that the Sonny/Liesl scene was very well acted on both their parts. (KG really looked her age for once.)

I also like KT's delivery of "I want to be more than the woman who fell in the Metro Court pool.

I liked Spencer punching Dex, not just because I often want to punch Dex myself but because Spencer was showing that he's on Cameron's side and I like their friendship. Also Spencer was upset (to be fair,mostly without cause) and wanted to punch someone.

[Mirabelle]

1 minute ago, statsgirl said:

I liked Spencer punching Dex, not just because I often want to punch Dex myself but because Spencer was showing that he's on Cameron's side and I like their friendship. Also Spencer was upset (to be fair,mostly without cause) and wanted to punch someone.

He got the punching thing from SWMNBN. Remember how she liked to just hit people in the face when she wasn't busy gazing into snow globes?

[tessaray]

4 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I liked Spencer punching Dex, not just because I often want to punch Dex myself but because Spencer was showing that he's on Cameron's side and I like their friendship. Also Spencer was upset (to be fair,mostly without cause) and wanted to punch someone.

Dex was a safe person to punch. He won't press charges anyway. 

I admit that I was a little puzzled by the "you work for me" thing. It sounded like something little kid Spencer would have said.

[dubbel zout]

40 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I thought that the Sonny/Liesl scene was very well acted on both their parts. (KG really looked her age for once.)

I wish Sonny had acknowledged that losing a child is quite different from losing an aging parent, regardless of said aging parent's condition. Otherwise, what he said was very appropriate.

[DanaK]

2 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

I wish Sonny had acknowledged that losing a child is quite different from losing an aging parent, regardless of said aging parent's condition. Otherwise, what he said was very appropriate.

True, but the conditions are a bit similar and Sonny was focusing mostly on finding a way to be there for the loved one in the final weeks and not regretting it

I think the general feeling here is that Brit's Huntington's result was probably tampered with, probably by Victor, right? Though the various symptoms seem concerning, it's possible it's stress and psychosomatic if she doesn't really have the condition. Or the result could be real since the actress is leaving. If the actress is leaving, I'll bet she'll go in search of a cure or slowdown of the disease and won't die at this point

Edited December 15, 2022 by DanaK

[Cheetara1986]

Deputy Do Gooder is dead and I feel, nothing. Just a block of wood used for angst purposes for Spencer/Trina and he wasnt even good for that. The least they could have done was make him the Hook or have him be their partner....but for real, do the writers even know who the hook is at this point? 

Spencer being an emotional, moody teen works for me. Its way better then being a cookie cutter. Helps that NAC can act his ass off better then 98% of the cast (not including Maura and Becky).

Dex...maybe work on your hand to hand skills if you want to be the next Ja-bot 2.0. Cause getting knock down like that by Spencer was hilarious.

I will Dark Ava and dark Liz is great for the fact that I know Maura and Becky bout to eat these damn scenes up.

[PatsyandEddie]

So did Rory shoot the abusive husband of the woman Jordan mentioned yesterday and then stab himself? I think Rory is The Hooker, knows Trina was going to ditch him and set the whole thing up. Looks like he might have over done it though. 

[Katy M]

Well, Rory's not the hooker unless he has a split personality and imagined the attack and stabbed himself, but that seems a mite bit ridiculous.

And now we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it's not Esme.  

now Trina will have to marry him because she feels bad. Or something.

[perkie1968]

1 minute ago, Katy M said:

And now we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it's not Esme.

And here's the dilema, Liz and Nik will both know that it's not Esme, but everyone else in town will continue to think it's her.  So are Liz/Nik going to do the right thing and tell police that it's not her, so that police can actually start looking for the right person?  I'm guessing they won't.  

[GHScorpiosRule]

23 minutes ago, Cheetara1986 said:

Spencer being an emotional, moody teen works for me.

He's no longer a teenager.

24 minutes ago, Cheetara1986 said:

do the writers even know who the hook is at this point? 

No. They're making shit up as they go along. As per usual.

[perkie1968]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

Spencer was showing that he's on Cameron's side a

Spencer's on Cam's side when it benefits Spencer.  He was pissed about Trina, Cam got his riled up about Dex/Joss, so he punched Dex in the face, for no reason.  Spencer is a little bully and Dex should have pressed charges.  

1 hour ago, DanaK said:

I think the general feeling here is that Brit's Huntington's result was probably tampered with, probably by Victor, right?

I don't think so.  Maybe at some point when Liesl went to that fake convention where Scotty was thrown out of the plane, they might have been heading there.  But with KT leaving, I'm pretty sure she has it and will leave so as not to be a burden.  And if she chooses to return, then they would just say that she had some miracle cure of some kind.  

24 minutes ago, Cheetara1986 said:

do the writers even know who the hook is at this point?

Nope.  though they have boxed themselves in with the comment that it was a woman.  

21 minutes ago, PatsyandEddie said:

So did Rory shoot the abusive husband of the woman Jordan mentioned yesterday and then stab himself?

My first thought was that the dead guy on the floor was his partner, that he went there to kill him to shut him up.  when he came stumbling out of the back room, muttering 'the hook' and falling into Dante's arms, I thought he was the hook, hooked himself a little, to fool everyone, but the fact that he's coding in the hospital and the actor was on IG, thanking the GH cast for an amazing time, but then just as quickly deleting it, makes me think that he's not the hooker and he's dead.  

[Cheyanne11]

23 minutes ago, PatsyandEddie said:

I think Rory is The Hooker, knows Trina was going to ditch him and set the whole thing up. Looks like he might have over done it though. 

Criminal Minds Omnivore episode--one of the best!  C. Thomas Howell stabbed himself like 20 times to cover up he was the serial killer, lol.

[perkie1968]

Someone explain to me like I'm 5 why Nikolas would tell Ava that Liz is pregnant with his baby?  She only told Finn that to get him away from Windemere and to explain the vitamins.  she even told Nik she would fake a miscarriage in a month and that would be the end of it.  But with Nik telling Ava, it covers his butt when Esme delivers but doesn't when Liz fakes her miscarriage.  Talk about creating a giant hole that you can never get out ot.  

[PatsyandEddie]

P.S.  Maura West was spectacular today!

[YaddaYadda]

Haven't watched today. Is Rory dead as in confirmed that he's dead.

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

Also Spencer was upset (to be fair,mostly without cause) and wanted to punch someone.

I wish he'd have punched himself. He hasn't been out of Pentonville for 24 hours and he's acting like an idiot. Also, punching someone he knows won't punch back is really cowardly.

8 minutes ago, Cheetara1986 said:

Dex...maybe work on your hand to hand skills if you want to be the next Ja-bot 2.0. Cause getting knock down like that by Spencer was hilarious.

Spencer sucker punched him. That can knock down anyone.

I did like Joss's irritated "I can handle it" when everyone fell over themselves to help her with the toys. That was some gross dick swinging there.

Objectively speaking, Jordan talking to Ryan isn't the dumbest idea she's had.

Oh, look, Rory is coding. Zzzz. LOL that no one does anything while Trina wails over him. I hate that this being used to cause her a lot of unwarranted angst. 

1 minute ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

25 minutes ago, Cheetara1986 said:

Spencer being an emotional, moody teen works for me.

He's no longer a teenager.

He's certainly acting like one. He doesn't get the hero's welcome he seems to have been expecting,  so that means no one loves him. Time to skip town! Spare me, you entitled turd.

Why would Spinelli need to hack Maxie to run his algorithm?

1 minute ago, perkie1968 said:

But with Nik telling Ava, it covers his butt when Esme delivers but doesn't when Liz fakes her miscarriage.  Talk about creating a giant hole that you can never get out ot.  

I didn't get that either. Way to put Elizabeth in Ava's crosshairs, Nik. And possibly VIctor's. Good lord, he's dumb.

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 minute ago, dubbel zout said:

He's certainly acting like one. He doesn't get the hero's welcome he seems to have been expecting,  so that means no one loves him. Time to skip town! Spare me, you entitled turd.

Oh absolutely. It's more pathetic because he's 20 or 21. And he's still a piece of shit. I don't care that he's now being played by someone who can act. The character is a petulant, whiny, entitled ASSHOLE.