S03.E04 Take My Hand

[bros402]

A conspiracy theorist questions Dr. Neil Melendez; Dr. Claire Brown treats a woman whose inability to feel pain is threatening both her marriage and her life; Dr. Shaun Murphy and Dr. Aaron Glassman each face crises in their romantic relationships.

[Annber03]

Oooh, that ending. I really hope this isn't a sign of Claire following in her mom's footsteps :(. 

Most of that ending was really touching, though. "Amazing Grace" combined with Claire holding her mom's ashes...that really hit me on a personal level. I was briefly thinking that the people at that party might join in the song, but I like that Claire got to have her little moment to herself (though, as discussed elsewhere, I do wonder if it's even allowed to scatter ashes in a place like that). 

I also liked Morgan supporting her as she did. It's kinda nice to see them have these quiet little moments together like this. I'd be all for more of that, as well as Claire being able to lean on and get support from the others in various ways down the line as well. 

(Also, I can understand Claire not wanting to open up about her mom's death to everyone, but as my mom wondered, wouldn't the accident have been in the local news or something? Surely her colleagues would've at least heard about it at some point?)

Anywho, so yeah, very interested to see what happens next for Claire here. I really hope things turn around for her eventually. 

On a happier note, loved how Shaun and Carly resolved the hand holding issue :). And I liked Shaun being so happy to be the one Glassman turned to for advice, and loved how he handled that annoying conspiracy theorist as well. 

[thuganomics85]

Was Antonia Thomas doing her own singing at the end?  Woman is talented!

I figured Claire was going to bottle a lot of it inside of her, but even then, not even telling anyone about her mom's death is crazy!  Although I do question it not getting onto the news somehow and someone finding out that way, but at least she was able to scatter her mom's ashes and even Reznick did a good job at being supportive.  But I guess that final scene is hinting that she might not be done spiraling yet.  I do hope they find some way to avoid just making it another case of "casual sex and hook-ups= cry for help!", which tends to get overplayed a lot on television.

Joshua Malina's character might have been called Mitchell Stewart, but he was totally just Alex Jones for all intent and purpose.  I did get a chuckle over it all ending up being him accidentally poisoning himself the entire time.  Plus, Shaun brought in some laughs by being his normal self!

Speaking of which, Shaun now learns to deal with the idea of holding hands, despite not being comfortable about it.  Interesting that he didn't see to have any issues with kissing Carly, but just the hand-holding.  Still, I suspect that would be an obstacle that would need to be overcome, and I'm glad it looks like he's making progress on that front.

Have no idea if the main case has any merits in real life, but the idea of someone who can't feel pain; physical or emotional; definitely is a case of something that sounds good in theory, but would really be pretty rough in practice.  And then being "cured" and the crash after would be crazy as well.  At least the couple seems to be stronger for it.  Recognized the actor playing the husband as the preacher from that show Resurrection years ago.

Glassman and Debbie get hitched!  And Shaun got to be the best man!  He was looking pretty dapper in that tux.

[Madding crowd]

My cousin’s husband doesn’t feel pain and he walked around with broken ribs for a few days before he had trouble breathing. Luckily he is a pretty healthy guy. He feels normal emotions though. I still don’t like Reznick, she is one of those types who feeds off of other people’s misfortune.

Happy to see Shaun and Carly are making progress but I do wonder if Shaun wants a relationship because he thinks he should want one or if he really has  feelings for Carly.

[Lady Calypso]

6 hours ago, Annber03 said:

(Also, I can understand Claire not wanting to open up about her mom's death to everyone, but as my mom wondered, wouldn't the accident have been in the local news or something? Surely her colleagues would've at least heard about it at some point?)

Maybe she asked them not to disclose her mother's name in the news? Because it likely would have been in the news, but she could have requested her name staying out of it.

What a sad episode for Claire, and that ending definitely does not bode well for her arc this season. She's spiralling and rightfully so. I'm glad Morgan was there for her. Morgan has her ups and downs, but she can be a sympathetic person when she wants to be. It was nice to see her be there for Claire. 

So, Shaun's Lesson of the Week in Dating is the importance of hand-holding! And probably touch in general. I can see both sides. I like that him and Carly came up with a compromise, despite what the conspiracy theorist patient told Shaun earlier in the episode. It was an awkward compromise, but also kind of sweet.

Can I say how little I care for Glassman in general? Sure, it was sweet that him and Debbie got married, but when Glassman missed last episode, I didn't miss him. I actually think his story is done. I feel like he could leave the show and things would be just fine. I don't think Shaun needs him anymore either.

The patient who couldn't feel pain and her husband? I felt for their story. I like how it was handled by everyone involved.

[DearEvette]

Another week, another episode of Claire torture.  Sigh.

I think they just love to capitalize on Antonia Thomas' ability to cry and wring our hearts because that is the only reason I can think of why they do this to us and to her.

Second week in a row I liked Morgan.  The scene of them at the Sea world was nice because it juxtaposed the silliness of their outfits (I loved that they committed so hard ... Morgan does a great sparkly eye and that lip color on Claire was fabulous as was the furry purse) with the seriousness of the event.  I do think that was Antonia singing although the deepness of her voice took me aback for a minute.

Also, can I say how much I HATE the trope of a woman subsuming her pain in soulless, dead gazed anonymous sex?  it happens a lot on tv and it just seems so out of character for such a levelheaded person like Claire. 

The woman who can feel no pain.... I feel like I have seen this before?  Maybe on Grey's Anatomy?  It just felt like a familiar weird medical story.  Good enough story but they were so patently there to act as some commentary on Claire's pain.  I hate that medical shows feel they have to do that all the time.

I liked the Alex Jones... I mean conspiracy theorist case better. 

I have no interest whatsoever in Glassman's storyline.  It really speaks to how they've squandered Richard Schiff over the course of the show. 

Carly and Shaun remain really fascinating though.  I think the show is doing a good job of showing the incremental and unconventional courtship of these two.  I feel both bad for them (Carly's facial expressions when she is looking at Shaun - you ge the sense of her apprehension and wondering is it is worth it) and hopeful at the same time.

[vibeology]

Why would you bring Joshua Malina in for an episode and not have him interact with Richard Schiff. That's just mean. I liked that plot and liked that he was poisoning himself.

Glassman behaved like a fucking child and Debbie never should have married him. His concerns were valid; they don't really know each other and that brings a real risk to their relationship, but he should have said that to Debbie and had a discussion together rather than running off.

Claire not telling anyone about her mom seems impossible to me. I get that she's a bottler in terms of emotions, but on a practical level, to get to the point where you have ashes in an urn in the trunk of your car, you probably had to take some time off to meet with a funeral home/crematorium, pick out an urn, pay for everything and pick up the ashes. I'm sure there isn't any money in the estate but there are still legal requirements that have to be completed.  So I struggle to believe that Claire is keeping her mother's death a secret at work. Maybe she went to Melendez to get a morning off here and an afternoon off there and he kept his mouth shut but that wouldn't explain why he'd let her zone out during surgery without saying something to her after the fact.

[NYCFree]

It’s quite possible that the accident was in the news without naming her mother. Years ago a family friend was murdered as one of a series of a high profile murder spree in NJ and NY. We certainly heard about the series of events as it was the top story on the local tv news, and the front page of the tabloids. We didn’t know until a couple of days later that our friend was one of those murdered.

I think Carly and Shaun could have a compromise (at least while sitting). She could rest her hand on his leg. I actually prefer that kind of bond to hand holding.

A person who can feel no pain was also a plot on House. In that case House wanted to study her, to see if he could learn how to replicate it for himself. In that case, they made it very clear how dangerous it is. Because it is so dangerous, I find it hard to believe neither she, nor her parents when younger, didn’t realize something was very wrong. If she was a normally physically active child, she would surely have experienced various cuts and scrapes that her parents would see when bathing or dressing her. After a few of these, you would think they would investigate why their daughter didn’t notice or complain about her injuries.

[greekmom]

Glad show didn't make Shaun "cured" of his aversion to hand holding but that he and Carly found a compromise.

For gawd's sake show, give Claire a break! Please don't let her go down the path of her mother.

[suebee12]

10 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Most of that ending was really touching, though. "Amazing Grace" combined with Claire holding her mom's ashes...that really hit me on a personal level. I was briefly thinking that the people at that party might join in the song, but I like that Claire got to have her little moment to herself (though, as discussed elsewhere, I do wonder if it's even allowed to scatter ashes in a place like that). 

That was the first thing I thought of. There are many challenges to spreading ashes(at least in Florida). My mother-in-law wanted to be buried with her first husband in Ohio. My brothers-in-law had to get in touch with the cemetery in Ohio to have it approved, then they had to arrange the flight of the ashes, and have someone be in charge of the burial. This whole process was very, very expensive. When my mother died,  my brother and I talked to the funeral director about this because we wanted mother's ashes buried with my father but we knew how expensive it could be. He gave us the idea that my brother could take the ashes, and plant flowers at the grave site, and bury the ashes and no one would be the wiser(of course, he said he didn't say that🙂if anyone asked!). Years earlier when my father-in-law died, we used the Neptune Society and they would spread the ashes at sea but the state of FL made this illegal since the state could not make money on controlling what was how the ashes were handled. That is why when I see people spreading ashes wherever they want, I wonder what state laws are.

[rhys]

Maybe Claire's mom didn't share the same last name as Claire. If even if it was Brown & in the news, no one at Claire's work took notice due to common name. Plus my kids don't even read the news lol!

That no pain disorder is so weird. Losing a hand? Crikey. She sure was blase'.

[AriAu]

Quote

I also liked Morgan supporting her as she did. It's kinda nice to see them have these quiet little moments together like this. I'd be all for more of that, as well as Claire being able to lean on and get support from the others in various ways down the line as well.

I didn't read it as Morgan being actually supportive...it was more like "supportive lite". She was willing to help on her terms and the way she wanted it done and didnt really consider Claire's position or feelings. In other words, totally Morgan. Maybe there was more we didnt see and YMMV, but I was out on her after the "the normally supportive Dr. Brown is letting that go" line.

Quote

Why would you bring Joshua Malina in for an episode and not have him interact with Richard Schiff. 

BINGO! Could they at least let them play catch with a red rubber ball (a spaulden).

And Josh was not particularly good or believable in that role. He needed to be more malevolent, uncaring and fraudulently theatrical to be an Alex Jones stand-in.

If Shaun is having an issue with hand holding, what comes next might be really, really uncomfortable for him and Carly......and all of us!

[AnimeMania]

Carly was being kind of a douche to Claire about butting into her romance with Shaun, Carly should have used that smug attitude to tell Shaun to stop seeking advice from his colleagues about how to date her. Carly is going to end up telling everybody in the hospital, except Shaun to stop interfering in her love life. Shaun is often the one who actively seeks out advice about how to date Carly.

[KaveDweller]

8 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Maybe she asked them not to disclose her mother's name in the news? Because it likely would have been in the news, but she could have requested her name staying out of it.

Even if her mom's name was in the news, it probably wouldn't have been a front page story. How many people actually read the news and pay attention to the names of every dead person? That probably sounds awful, but I think most people are desensitized to stories like a DUI, especially doctors. I can buy no one else heard about it. However, I agree with the poster above who said she likely would have had to take a day off to deal with things.

I really hope that they don't make Claire follow her mom's path or have to dark a turn. But that ending did not bode well.

I have seen stories where a patient can't feel physical pain, but I've never seen no emotional pain. I wonder if she feels pleasure?

[milner]

I have worked with a number of autistic high school students. The brighter ones like Shaun are well able to learn social behaviours by watching and modelling others. If he was told what is or is not appropriate to say to patients he should be able to learn what to say. Though that  might occasionally require a conversation in the hallway before entering a patients room. If he cannot learn this he should not be involved in bedside conferences and just use his amazing diagnostic skills. 
 Finally it seems they are making him seem weirder instead of focusing on how he is growing both as a doctor and as a person. Oh and one last thing my partner is not autistic and hates hand holding anywhere  so we don’t. Not a big deal 

[Annber03]

7 hours ago, NYCFree said:

It’s quite possible that the accident was in the news without naming her mother. Years ago a family friend was murdered as one of a series of a high profile murder spree in NJ and NY. We certainly heard about the series of events as it was the top story on the local tv news, and the front page of the tabloids. We didn’t know until a couple of days later that our friend was one of those murdered.

I'm so sorry to hear about your family friend. Condolences.

And thanks to you and everyone else here with your explanations regarding the others not knowing about Claire's mom. All valid reasons/possibilities. 

5 hours ago, suebee12 said:

That was the first thing I thought of. There are many challenges to spreading ashes(at least in Florida). My mother-in-law wanted to be buried with her first husband in Ohio. My brothers-in-law had to get in touch with the cemetery in Ohio to have it approved, then they had to arrange the flight of the ashes, and have someone be in charge of the burial. This whole process was very, very expensive. When my mother died,  my brother and I talked to the funeral director about this because we wanted mother's ashes buried with my father but we knew how expensive it could be. He gave us the idea that my brother could take the ashes, and plant flowers at the grave site, and bury the ashes and no one would be the wiser(of course, he said he didn't say that🙂if anyone asked!). Years earlier when my father-in-law died, we used the Neptune Society and they would spread the ashes at sea but the state of FL made this illegal since the state could not make money on controlling what was how the ashes were handled. That is why when I see people spreading ashes wherever they want, I wonder what state laws are.

Appreciate the info on this, too. My dad was cremated, but we didn't scatter his ashes, so I've always wondered how that stuff works for those who do. It makes sense they would have some regulations in place on that stuff, depending on where people want to do that. And I certainly wouldn't want to scatter ashes somewhere where animals might ingest them or something. 

4 hours ago, AriAu said:

I didn't read it as Morgan being actually supportive...it was more like "supportive lite". She was willing to help on her terms and the way she wanted it done and didnt really consider Claire's position or feelings. In other words, totally Morgan. Maybe there was more we didnt see and YMMV, but I was out on her after the "the normally supportive Dr. Brown is letting that go" line.

Yeah, I won't argue that she was being awfully pushy there. I think she intended it to be a, "Rip the band-aid off" sort of thing, 'cause she's never been the type to dwell too long on things, she just deals with stuff and moves on to the next thing. But I agree that she also needs to understand that not everyone is like her, and with something like the loss of a parent especially, it's best to let each person grieve in their own way. 

Still, I found their interactions this episode interesting despite that. There's a sharp contrast between them, and I like how the show lets them play off that when they interact.

[catrice2]

Of course they will have Claire be mentally ill or abuse alcohol or drugs...you know, because her mother did and everyone's parent that did will..don't you know?  You would think the writers wold have more imagination. 

[Fable]

Contrary to popular opinion, I like Dr.  Glassman.  I’m glad he and Shaun have each other as sounding boards and mutual support systems.  Aside from Claire, he is one of the few people who “get” Shaun.  Carly seems to get him too, but we will have to wait and see where that goes. 

I like the dynamic between Claire and Morgan.  Sure Morgan is a little pushy, but her heart is in the right place and it may have been the push Claire needed.  I still think Morgan is bitchy, but I am warming towards her, and I think her relationship with Claire brings out a softer side to her. 

Alex Jones….Bwahahaha.   I’m surprised they went there.  It’s one thing to have a conspiracy theorist but to be so blatant about who it was supposed to be was unexpected.  I guess the creators feel about as warmly toward him as I do. 

[Lsk02]

In many areas, dumping ashes is a misdemeanor. I’m guessing dumping them into an aquarium was not only illegal, but also potentially unsafe for the sea lions. I’m surprised they showed that. 
 

As an aside, rides at Disney parks are regularly shut down for environmental clean ups due to family members spreading ashes. If caught, they are removed from the parks with no refund, and sometimes placed on the “lifetime ban” lists. 

[bros402]

That actor was wayyyy too nice to be playing an Alex Jones type - although I expected him to go the Alex Jones route when he had the room cleared and say "yeah it's all an act, it's a character! Great money, though!" like Jones did during his deposition for the Sandy Hook suit

Also, that was one hell of a fascinator Reznick had on.

16 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Another week, another episode of Claire torture.  Sigh.

I think they just love to capitalize on Antonia Thomas' ability to cry and wring our hearts because that is the only reason I can think of why they do this to us and to her.

Second week in a row I liked Morgan.  The scene of them at the Sea world was nice because it juxtaposed the silliness of their outfits (I loved that they committed so hard ... Morgan does a great sparkly eye and that lip color on Claire was fabulous as was the furry purse) with the seriousness of the event.  I do think that was Antonia singing although the deepness of her voice took me aback for a minute.

Also, can I say how much I HATE the trope of a woman subsuming her pain in soulless, dead gazed anonymous sex?  it happens a lot on tv and it just seems so out of character for such a levelheaded person like Claire. 

The woman who can feel no pain.... I feel like I have seen this before?  Maybe on Grey's Anatomy?  It just felt like a familiar weird medical story.  Good enough story but they were so patently there to act as some commentary on Claire's pain.  I hate that medical shows feel they have to do that all the time.

I liked the Alex Jones... I mean conspiracy theorist case better. 

I have no interest whatsoever in Glassman's storyline.  It really speaks to how they've squandered Richard Schiff over the course of the show. 

Carly and Shaun remain really fascinating though.  I think the show is doing a good job of showing the incremental and unconventional courtship of these two.  I feel both bad for them (Carly's facial expressions when she is looking at Shaun - you ge the sense of her apprehension and wondering is it is worth it) and hopeful at the same time.

I liked Morgan too. I think the woman with no pain was on House.

The conspiracy theorist case was good.

8 hours ago, milner said:

I have worked with a number of autistic high school students. The brighter ones like Shaun are well able to learn social behaviours by watching and modelling others. If he was told what is or is not appropriate to say to patients he should be able to learn what to say. Though that  might occasionally require a conversation in the hallway before entering a patients room. If he cannot learn this he should not be involved in bedside conferences and just use his amazing diagnostic skills. 
 Finally it seems they are making him seem weirder instead of focusing on how he is growing both as a doctor and as a person. Oh and one last thing my partner is not autistic and hates hand holding anywhere  so we don’t. Not a big deal 

Yeah, I really hope they don't go the Monk route and turn his autism into "hey look at this weird neurotypical thing Shaun is worried around!"

[The Wild Sow]

3 hours ago, bros402 said:

That actor was wayyyy too nice to be playing an Alex Jones type -

Ohhhh, you obviously didn't see him on Law & Order SVU!

Simon Wilkes from Thought Criminal & Spring Awakening!  CREE-pyyy!

[Guest]

I like Shaun's interactions with asshole conspiracy dude because for once the writers didn't lean on "Shaun's autism prevents him from understanding any social nuance" and allowed him to be clever in a non-medical context re: feeding into his "poisoned" narrative to satisfy him.

Glassman is an overgrown 5-year old and Claire's spiral reeks of cliches (they really aren't trying to hide the fact that Claire's mom/her death is a naked plot device,  huh?).     

[chitowngirl]

I wish they would have Dr. Glassman actually interact with others in the hospital and be involved in cases.

[bros402]

5 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

I wish they would have Dr. Glassman actually interact with others in the hospital and be involved in cases.

Me too - I hope one of his free clinic patients becomes a case of the week. Let's see Glassy advocate for one of his patients and show us more of him as a doctor, versus as mentor for Shaun or as a cancer patient

[tennisgurl]

Antonia is so good, they must love inflicting trauma on Claire because she is so good and her sad eyes just break my heart every time. She also has a lovely singing voice! 

I cant believe that Claire hasn't told anyone what is going on, not only does it seem like something people might have heard about, but it could be dangerous for her and her job. Yeah I am sure that Claire will try to be as professional as possible, but she is clearly not at the top of her game, and I dont want to see her make a mistake or give bad advice that she wouldn't normally do. She could really use some bereavement leave. Plus, I would love to see everyone trying to be supportive, especially Shaun. 

Not Alex Jones was such a pain in the ass, I loved how Shaun dealt with him, and how it turned out that he was poisoning himself through his own paranoia. Karma is a real bitch! I mean, how do you even deal with a person who just doesent believe anything, even things that have been repetitively proved or are right in front of them? I mean, it takes some balls to tell a bunch of doctors that they're all "pushers for big pharmaceutical" or whatever when they're about to cut you open!

The couple and the woman who cant feel pain was interesting, and I am glad that things worked out for them. I mean, give or take a hand!

Oh how I hate the "woman in a downward spiral stares dead eyes ahead as she has meaningless hook up sex" cliche. I really hope that Claire will come back from this and doesent go down a dark path. I did like her scenes with Morgan, she did seem like she was trying to be supportive, in her own pushy Morgan kind of way. 

Shaun and Carly are still super cute, and I am glad they found a compromise on the hand holding. Shaun shouldn't have to do things that make him uncomfortable, especially when it comes to physical contact, but if Carly likes physical affecting in a relationship, that could be an issue, so I was glad to see they found something that works for them. I also liked Parks advice to Shaun about his relationship, in his Park kind of way. 

[tinderbox]

I don't like Carly, in general,  and I really don't like her with Shaun.  I realize I might be alone with this opinion.

[tvfanatic13]

Damn, I love Claire so much. 

[Whimsy]

My husband and I don't like holding hands, either.  Mostly because his hands get REALLY sweaty and gross.  We compromise by me holding on to his elbow if we do want to have that physical connection.  I feel that is a LESS awkward and an actual satisfying way to approach this situation rather than virtual hand holding. That looked so strange and I don't see how that actually gives Carly satisfaction because they're still not touching.  By holding his elbow, she'll get the physical connection she wants and (since he'll most likely have sleeves on) he won't have the physical touch he DOESN'T want. 

[Brown12051]

    On 10/15/2019 at 11:30 PM, Fable said:

    "Contrary to popular opinion, I like Dr.  Glassman.  I’m glad he and Shaun have each other as sounding boards and mutual support systems.  Aside from Claire, he is one of the few people who “get” Shaun.  Carly seems to get him too, but we will have to wait and see where that goes."

[Click and drag to move]

I like Dr Glassman too.  Debbie makes him smile and be silly, which is extremely nice to see. Shaun seems to have an insight about him too, because I doubt if anyone else would catch that "first wife, implying that there will be a second"  and concluded that Glassman had already made up his mind to go back and marry her.

    On 10/15/2019 at 11:30 PM, Fable said:

    Alex Jones….Bwahahaha.   I’m surprised they went there.  It’s one thing to have a conspiracy theorist but to be so blatant about who it was supposed to be was unexpected.  I guess the creators feel about as warmly toward him as I do.

[Click and drag to move]

It is nice that the people who develop the guest cast will go to where the regular actors were and got someone from that talented pool.  I  used to watch the West Wing regularly (because of Martin Sheen, mostly, and for an ongoing lesson in social studies), and it was there that I got to see Richard Schiff for the first time (sorry, I don't do a lot of channel surfing)   Joshua Malina was there too, so it was nice to see him here as well, portraying a point of view that was not often seen on TV drama.  Don't know Alex Jones, I guess I could look him up, but I liked how Joshua's character trusted Shaun and believed his diagnosis.

[ForReal]

On 10/15/2019 at 3:35 PM, KaveDweller said:

I really hope that they don't make Claire follow her mom's path or have to dark a turn. But that ending did not bode well.

The ending of the episode reminded me of the first episode(s) of the show, when Claire and Jared were going at it at work. Claire wanted to keep it physical without emotions, although she eventually regretted that when he left. Earlier when talking to her mother, she said she hadn't wanted to rush into having sex because she wanted it to matter. Seems like they can't quite decide who Claire really is.

[Annber03]

6 hours ago, Brown12051 said:

.Don't know Alex Jones, I guess I could look him up.

Consider yourself lucky. 

[Trini]

Really? A downward spiral is Claire's story for this season? *sigh*

On 10/17/2019 at 1:40 PM, tennisgurl said:

I also liked Parks advice to Shaun about his relationship, in his Park kind of way. 

I need more Park and less Resnick!