S01.E01: Pilot

[Netfoot]

That was pretty bad.

Of course, I'm just an old, white man.  Me and Adam West...

[Proteus]

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

I think the CW tv website has it. Maybe also Hulu.

Thanks. But I was just hoping anyone could just take a minute to see if they still have the CW on demand from their cable provider.

[rainsmom]

25 minutes ago, Proteus said:

Thanks. But I was just hoping anyone could just take a minute to see if they still have the CW on demand from their cable provider.

I have Xfinity, and yes, I have it available on demand.

[Proteus]

5 minutes ago, rainsmom said:

I have Xfinity, and yes, I have it available on demand.

Thank you!

[Starry]

1 hour ago, Featherhat said:

Yeah I suppose it's to give the story some melodrama and angst and draw out the time when they'll (probably) get together again, but I was having a couple of Laurel from Arrow flashbacks where the writers IMHO really shot themselves in the foot with the awful backstory for their original lead couple. I hope they turn this one around and flesh Sophie's POV out more otherwise I'll be rooting against them getting back together.

I don't think their backstory is as bad as Lauriver's but they could have made the whole thing less angsty. There was already enough drama with what happened at the academy back in the day. There was no need to also give Sophie a husband.

I never write off a couple after one episode. If I could give Lauriver a chance I can definitely do the same here. Regardless of what happens with the relationship, I hope they'll write Sophie well. I don't want her to end up like Laurel or James from Supergirl.

1 hour ago, Featherhat said:

I think that's what made me like the character. The actress pulled off both those things simultaneously, which is quite tricky. I want to see more of their relationship as step sisters and I'd prefer to have her find out Kate's secret sooner rather than later but I guess the "Robin Hood Doctor" is probably due to next so she can patch Kate up etc. 

I think they can also have a good thing with the mom. She seems obsessed with image which should provide an interesting contrast to Mary's personality.

[Loandbehold]

47 minutes ago, Starry said:

I don't think their backstory is as bad as Lauriver's but they could have made the whole thing less angsty. There was already enough drama with what happened at the academy back in the day. There was no need to also give Sophie a husband.

Sophie probably married him to prove that her relationship w/ Kate was just experimentation in the Don't Ask / Don't Tell era. 

I have Spectrum and the pilot is available on demand.

1 hour ago, rainsmom said:

[Chyromaniac]

I’m a sucker for Chicago as Gotham, so please keep up the establishing footage.  As for the show...

Overall, I thought it was fine - but it did feel like they were trying to cram in all the backstory. I get that you want to establish things with the pilot, but the actual episode story seemed thin in comparison.  I also wasn’t a fan of the voiceovers- it was like they stretched the usual Arrowverse “my name is...” intro over the entire episode, which wasn’t great.  Honestly it was the only part of Ruby’s performance that I didn’t enjoy- hopefully we’re done with that going forward.

[Trini]

4 hours ago, mtlchick said:

This is like Supergirl though: Bruce/Batman is gone for THREE YEARS and no one puts two and two together? How dumb are the people of Gotham?

It's Gotham. People probably go missing all the time. ::shrug:: I don't know how you'd necessarily come to the conclusion that they are the same person if you're not familiar with both.

[statsgirl]

4 hours ago, Featherhat said:

I was having a couple of Laurel from Arrow flashbacks where the writers IMHO really shot themselves in the foot with the awful backstory for their original lead couple. I hope they turn this one around and flesh Sophie's POV out more otherwise I'll be rooting against them getting back together. 

I found myself hoping that they would take a page out of Arrow's handbook and have Kate move on to someone else as her OTP. It's not just the backstory and failing to keep in touch with Kate but the lack of chemistry in their present day scenes.

Give her a meet cute and a new story with someone new.. Someone without the baggage.

[Primal Slayer]

37 minutes ago, Trini said:

It's Gotham. People probably go missing all the time. ::shrug:: I don't know how you'd necessarily come to the conclusion that they are the same person if you're not familiar with both.

Bruce/Bats are one of those that everyone in the city knows about. He's like the Kardashian of Gotham, at least heard the name once in your life. But that's why Wayne Enterprises should've been in business this entire time. It is very "Bruce" to dip out and travel. Him putting someone in charge while he's gone would've been far less suspicious. 

[Featherhat]

2 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I found myself hoping that they would take a page out of Arrow's handbook and have Kate move on to someone else as her OTP. It's not just the backstory and failing to keep in touch with Kate but the lack of chemistry in their present day scenes.

Give her a meet cute and a new story with someone new.. Someone without the baggage.

I'm willing to give them a chance to have chemistry as they develop a more fleshed out storyline for Sophie's choices. The problem with that kind of baggage is that there often are meet cute LIs and other characters that pop up along the way so IMO they have to hit it out of the park very quickly. 

4 hours ago, Chyromaniac said:

. I also wasn’t a fan of the voiceovers- it was like they stretched the usual Arrowverse “my name is...” intro over the entire episode, which wasn’t great.  

Maybe they'll disappear in a few episodes, both Oliver and Barry VOed things in early episodes and that stopped when Oliver got a partner and just phased out for Barry. 

[Rushmoras]

After so many negative reviews, I decided to actually watch it myself. And... well... I cannot state that I did not like the pilot episode. I have seen much more uninspired pilot episodes than this one (e.g. Supernatural or Preacher), however, I've also seen much more inspired pilot episodes (e.g. 24 or The Walking Dead). However, if I would need to compare this pilot episode with the one Supergirl aired some years back, I would say that this episode was a bit better.

Contrary to what people are saying, I did not see much forced LGBQT propaganda in this episode. True, if the mere thought of two women kissing makes you want to heave, then, yes, those reviews on IMDB are actually right - the show is bad. However, in my opinion, this was done whole lot better than Alex and Maggie's situation in Supergirl (where their whole plot-point was that their gay). In here, at least, the fact that Kate Kane is gay revolved around the plot (saving her former lover from possible death), so, the flash-backs were warranted.

I would say that the whole tone and colour pallet feels a whole lot more like Gotham. And I think this is a good thing. The production quality is also better than in Supergirl. Here, there is blood and people do die. The main actor is not some unstoppable meta-human, but a simple human (sure, which has martial arts and gymnastics training), who bleeds and takes injuries (which I would like to see more, and would encourage the screen-writers and make-up specialists to take risks and show the viewers injuries that Kate suffers while being a vigilante (remember Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy?)).

However, there were some moments of I don't really believe this is possible (like her diving in to ice cold water in the middle of winter for a minute or so, then going to a hut in winter with swimsuit on. No, I don't care how capable you want her to be, but since she is not a meta-human, this thing would cause frost-bites at best). Also, moments were I would say that the fight-scene choreographers have much more to do in a logical sense that is. I don't buy that a skinny girl like Ruby Rose can hold her own while fighting unarmed with men that hare twice her size. The choreographers should have concentrated more on using the environment to Kate's advantage (which was also done, but only towards the end of the first fight scene). I mean, she is clearly quite a gymnast (that Assassin's Creed moment while climbing in to Wayne Enterprises), so, in my opinion (at least until she does not put on her Batwoman suit, which is kinda like a primitive equivalent of Tony Stark's armour, as I presume), the fight scenes should concentrate more on evading, stealth and using the environment to your advantage in order to make it look more believable.

I would actually rate this pilot 7/10. Clearly, it has direction where it wants to go, but I'm concerned that that direction soon will be shifted all over the place. I mean, this is Berlanti's production after all. But so far, a promising start.

[Katsullivan]

17 hours ago, Featherhat said:

I was having a couple of Laurel from Arrow flashbacks where the writers IMHO really shot themselves in the foot with the awful backstory for their original lead couple. I hope they turn this one around and flesh Sophie's POV out more otherwise I'll be rooting against them getting back together. 

THIS. I winced when I saw the Designated Rival LI show up but I was like... mmmm... OK, let's see how this goes and then he says the H-word and I groaned. Out loud. Why? Because unless they're going to take the easy option and make him a villain, I really don't know if I'm supposed to route for Sophie to: cheat on her husband, dump her husband who seems like a perfectly nice guy.... 

[Netfoot]

4 hours ago, Katsullivan said:

then he says the H-word...

There's an H-word?  I'm just wracking my brains but nothing is coming to me.

[Featherhat]

25 minutes ago, Netfoot said:

There's an H-word?  I'm just wracking my brains but nothing is coming to me.

Husband. It's kind of a played out trope on TV that a lesbian character will have an ex pop up and surprise! they are now married to a guy and the drama never ends well e.g. Chicago Fire. 

I'm going for designated end of season 1 heroic death, although that might be played out on the Arrowverse by now, probably not before lots of back and forward between the three of them and angst. If they change things up I'll be pleasantly surprised. Meagan Tandy can be a good actress so I definitely hope they'll be fleshing out Sophie's side of things. 

[Netfoot]

36 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

Quote

There's an H-word?  I'm just wracking my brains but nothing is coming to me.

Husband.

I would have never guessed that as a Word That Must Never Be Spoken.

[Jacks-Son]

As a sucker for origin stories, this one was lacking. I wasn't a fan of Ms. Rose when she made her much announced introduction in "Orange is the New Black".  Too much hype with no payoff. Admittedly, it seems her only qualification is that she's a lesbian who is pretty much out. All well and good, but your sexuality is not a quality to be used as credentials. I didn't think much of her inclusion in the arroverse crossover as she had very little screen time and screen presence.

My #1 complaint about the pilot is that there was just too much interconnectivity between family, friends, cousins or just plain old acquaintances.  I found myself asking, okay, "Who is he/she again and how is he/she related to Kate?". It was confusing and slightly distracting.  I enjoyed the obligatory one-take fight scenes which has become the highlight of new hero series. She looked capable in the fighting scenes.

I would have also liked the traditional "Hero gets their costume" sequence.  All of a sudden she says alter Batman's perfect suit to fit a woman 1/5th his size and then boom, Batwoman makes her entry with full costume and weaponry to match.   I felt cheated. 

Finally, it was a bad choice to have Ms. Rose narrate her story, her voice delivery is monotone and dull. No evidence of any excitement she must feel when she takes on such a life-changing role. Just drab narration with no emotion in her voice. So disappointing. The CW should not pair this show with Supergirl. The differences between the two characters and the shows are vast.

Edited October 8, 2019 by Jacks-Son

[MissLucas]

It was definitely an uneven pilot. Like many others I got a bit of a Laurel vibe from Sophie and all I can say is, please No! The lack of chemistry was painful. Lots of things did not really work but most of those can be mended over the next couple of episodes. My main gripe is the big conflict between Kate and her Dad (according to some reviews he stands for the patriarchy) - it lacked emotional heft. Not sure whether it was the writing or the acting, probably both.

[Kymmi]

On 10/7/2019 at 1:12 PM, Lantern7 said:

 In other news, I am convinced that Luke Fox and Curtis Holt might be related. Or maybe there's a machine that can dart out smart guys who are also huge putzes.

I really wish they would have hired Echo Kellum as Luke Fox (I like his vibe better, but didn't think he worked on Arrow)

[slaterain]

On 10/7/2019 at 9:50 PM, Chyromaniac said:

I’m a sucker for Chicago as Gotham, so please keep up the establishing footage.  As for the show...

Me too! Always love seeing the loop and could even point out my old office building. I remember when Dark Knight was being filmed and the batmobile was parked nearby!

[Samwise979]

I thought the Batwoman cross over last year was awful and I was not planning on watching this. But you know how it is, with all the hype about the crossover coming up this year I felt like I had to watch it. It wasn't as bad as I was expecting and I'll give it a fair chance.  I would say as far as weak actresses go, Ruby Rose is at least better than Danielle Panabaker and Katie Cassidy. Oh and Juliana Harkavy. 

[Ravenya003]

Late to the party and haven't read thread, so excuse me if I repeat anything...

I liked it, though pilots are always a bit rough. They have to set the tone, introduce the characters, establish relationships, story-arcs, etc. It did the job.

Lots of things seeded that'll be explored later in the season; mainly the disappearance of Bruce/Batman, the identity of Alice as Beth, and the inevitable death of Sophie's husband in such a way that she'll end up blaming Batwoman, who will be guilt-ridden over not saving him and compromised by her feelings for Sophie - hey, this writes itself. 

I appreciated that so many of the cast are women: the protagonist, the villain, the stepsister, the step mum, the love interest... That's the thing that kinda bugs me about Supergirl: there's really only Kara and Alex in the main cast (and more recently, Nia) amidst a slew of male characters. Female relationships are just as important as female protagonists, and to do that you need more than one. 

Of course, they compensate by giving our female protagonist Daddy Issues. *sigh* 

Re: Batman. You know, if a vigilante who regularly fights master criminals suddenly and mysteriously goes missing, I think it would be very safe to assume he's dead. Of course, he's NOT, but in-universe, they definitely wouldn't have been saying he's "missing" or that he's "abandoned Gotham." He's dead, guys. (Except not).

I think I'm going to enjoy Mary, especially since she's channeling Bruce: a flippant, superficial exterior hiding deeper altruistic motives. 

Edited October 12, 2019 by Ravenya003

[Jacks-Son]

On 10/10/2019 at 6:29 PM, Samwise979 said:

Ruby Rose is at least better than Danielle Panabaker and Katie Cassidy. Oh and Juliana Harkavy. 

I kind of like the seasoned superhero vets.  I don't know if I've seen enough of Ruby Rose's acting to judge it fairly, but I have seen the others and I think they've managed to surprise me.  Panabaker's dual acting as Killer Frost is kind of nicely done; truly split personalities that leave each other post-it notes when they want to talk to the other.  That's kind of imaginative and she manages to pull it off. Katie Cassidy gets a hell of a lot of flax, mainly because she wasn't the Laurel that everyone wanted her to be and because she had two powerhouses of actors, beloved by fans, to go up against: the Awesome Caity Lotz and the blazing superstar of the male geek world, Emily Bett Rickards. Another difficult role is  Harkavy's;  She went through a lot of rough changes in her life and I actually like the job she has done both as Police woman Dinah Drake AND hero/vigilante Black Canary.

Ruby Rose is just playing Ruby Rose in costume and out.  Perhaps in future episodes, she'll begin to take on the Batwoman persona but right now, she's just a woman with a gripe.

[Trini]

We'll see how episode 2 plays out, but seeing as how Sophie's husband was essentially a cameo, I'm thinking that he will not play a big role in the show, so yeah; he might be dying.

Edited October 14, 2019 by Trini

[CabotCove]

Quote

 It was definitely an uneven pilot. Like many others I got a bit of a Laurel vibe from Sophie and all I can say is, please No! The lack of chemistry was painful.

If anything I got a Laurel vibe from Kate, whose father is a law enforcer and she has a dead sister in the pilot. Kate also got some Oliver vibes of course, as this show share a number of elements with Arrow. Its first episode and the two characters Kate/Sophie barely have any scenes together, I dont see how that is enough to develop and determine chemistry... Pilots can be clunky, sometimes characters/actors need time, to get in the groove of things. just my opinion. 

Quote

and the inevitable death of Sophie's husband in such a way that she'll end up blaming Batwoman, who will be guilt-ridden over not saving him and compromised by her feelings for Sophie - hey, this writes itself. 

LOL,, that could very well happen, has happen before. 

Edited October 14, 2019 by CabotCove

[Josh371982]

On 10/12/2019 at 3:50 AM, Ravenya003 said:

Late to the party and haven't read thread, so excuse me if I repeat anything...

I liked it, though pilots are always a bit rough. They have to set the tone, introduce the characters, establish relationships, story-arcs, etc. It did the job.

Lots of things seeded that'll be explored later in the season; mainly the disappearance of Bruce/Batman, the identity of Alice as Beth, and the inevitable death of Sophie's husband in such a way that she'll end up blaming Batwoman, who will be guilt-ridden over not saving him and compromised by her feelings for Sophie - hey, this writes itself. 

I appreciated that so many of the cast are women: the protagonist, the villain, the stepsister, the step mum, the love interest... That's the thing that kinda bugs me about Supergirl: there's really only Kara and Alex in the main cast (and more recently, Nia) amidst a slew of male characters. Female relationships are just as important as female protagonists, and to do that you need more than one. 

Of course, they compensate by giving our female protagonist Daddy Issues. *sigh* 

Re: Batman. You know, if a vigilante who regularly fights master criminals suddenly and mysteriously goes missing, I think it would be very safe to assume he's dead. Of course, he's NOT, but in-universe, they definitely wouldn't have been saying he's "missing" or that he's "abandoned Gotham." He's dead, guys. (Except not).

I think I'm going to enjoy Mary, especially since she's channeling Bruce: a flippant, superficial exterior hiding deeper altruistic motives. 

You're forgetting Lena LOL shes part of the main cast.

[Ravenya003]

3 hours ago, Josh371982 said:

You're forgetting Lena LOL shes part of the main cast.

I did! I totally forgot about Lena! (Geez, and I love Katie McGrath...)

[Simba122504]

On 10/6/2019 at 8:30 PM, tennisgurl said:

So how long until we find out that Kate's ex girlfriends husband is evil? A couple episodes? End of the season? Who wants in on this?!

As far as pilots go...its no The Flash pilot, but I am willing to wait and see how it goes. Curse my need to watch all comic book TV especially the Arrowverse! It was clunky in a very pilot-y kind of way, and so much of the backstory had to be established that it felt like going through a check list and not telling a real story. Also, Kate and Bruce being so far apart in age seems weird to be, in the comics I think they were pretty close in age. 

Most of the supporting cast was just kind of there, her step sister was really the only one that stood out to me as having a lot of potential. She was like a more academically minded and altruistic version of season one Thea from Arrow. Honestly, its kind of funny that Arrow was originally so clearly taking its cues from Batman just as much as, if not more than, when now an actual piece of Batman material is now taking its cues from Arrow. I think that this is kind of the Arrowverses attempt to replace Arrow with something similar (brooding badass hero, ex girlfriend they have complicated feelings for, opening with them being badass outdoors, lone vigilante in a city overrun with crime, dead family angst involving water) but it hasn't quite hit that sweet spot yet, even just in the pilot. The Arrow pilot had its issues, but I still found it a lot more engaging than this.

Of course bats all come flying up as soon as Kate gets there, does Bruce just keep bats around as his pets and trains them to dramatically fly around whenever someone walks in? 

Isn’t Kate’s father and Bruce’s mother are siblings?  That age gap is weird because I doubt the siblings are that far apart in age. Bruce and Kate should be around the same age. 

[Loandbehold]

11 hours ago, Simba122504 said:

Isn’t Kate’s father and Bruce’s mother are siblings?  That age gap is weird because I doubt the siblings are that far apart in age. Bruce and Kate should be around the same age. 

Even if they were siblings, they could have been years apart in age. And, even if they were close in age, their kids (Bruce and Kate) could have been far apart. It's not unusual for some parents to have kids in their 20s, while others wait until their 30s or even 40s (and even beyond).

[Simba122504]

4 hours ago, Loandbehold said:

Even if they were siblings, they could have been years apart in age. And, even if they were close in age, their kids (Bruce and Kate) could have been far apart. It's not unusual for some parents to have kids in their 20s, while others wait until their 30s or even 40s (and even beyond).

 The possibility of Jacob and Martha being years apart and having kids years apart is rare given the era they were born in. And the average woman doesn’t give birth to her first child at 40 and beyond. Yes, there are women who do but that’s not the average age a woman gives birth. 

[rab01]

On 10/15/2019 at 5:15 PM, Simba122504 said:

 The possibility of Jacob and Martha being years apart and having kids years apart is rare given the era they were born in. And the average woman doesn’t give birth to her first child at 40 and beyond. Yes, there are women who do but that’s not the average age a woman gives birth. 

Bruce is supposed to be older than Kate rather than the reverse so I think the math works out.

If Bruce's mother was the older sibling and had kids in her early 20s while Kate's father had her in his mid 30s, Bruce would be 20 years older than Kate.  That would make Batman somewhere approaching 30 when he tried to save Kate's family on the bridge. 

AS for the episode as a whole, it was very very piloty.  I haven't watched OITNB (it's on my list for someday) so I haven't seen the actress much and didn't have any preconceptions and I think she works in the role - she's charismatic and physically believable as an action hero. I'll have to see her in a better written episode before I have an opinion on her acting ability.

Edited October 18, 2019 by rab01

[chaifan]

On 10/6/2019 at 9:12 PM, Writing Wrongs said:

Kate looks like Kate McKinnon when she's playing Justin Bieber.

OMG.  This is a spot on description. 

I know I'm at a table for one here, but I tuned in for Dougray Scott.  (20+ year crush on him since Ever After.)  But, sadly, I was disappointed.  The character is rather flat. 

The pilot was ok, and I agree with the criticisms of Ruby Rose being the weak link.  I do like the twist they gave for Mary, and have her be something other than a vapid social media maven.  I hope they give Luke more personality, something to counter Kate's "all serious all the time" persona. 

Not sure if I'll tune in on a regular basis, or just keep it as something to pull up on demand when I'm bored.

[Jacks-Son]

2 hours ago, chaifan said:

Not sure if I'll tune in on a regular basis, or just keep it as something to pull up on demand when I'm bored.

Ringing endorsement. I'm not even sure putting it with "Supergirl" is doing it any favors.  Ruby Rose, for all her advanced hype is sort of boring as an actress.

[AAEBoiler]

I finally got around to watching this and it was ... ok. My only gripe was the costume and especially the cowl. It just looks so round on Ruby Rose's head. It's like they stretched the rubber cowl over an old motorcycle helmet. It just looks off.

[John Potts]

Well, that was... fine. Not great, not terrible, just OK. As a pilot, it was something of an exposition dump, but it did keep me watching (mostly for Alice, who seems the most interesting character). But I couldn't help wondering about a couple of things:

1 Does Wayne Enterprises still exist? If it does, why is it's HQ abandoned? And if it collapsed (or was taken over) following Bruce's departure/death, why didn't somebody else buy up some prime Gotham real estate (even in the cesspit that is Gotham, that building has to be worth millions)?

2 If "Luke" is Lucius Fox, isn't he a little young? Granted, he could be a different character in this Bat-verse, but he has the same role as in the Nolan-verse as Bruce's secret keeper and presumably tech-guy (given he can modify the Batsuit that easily).

3 Granted, this one just goes with the territory, but how does Cas not recognise her sister!? Granted, this is a Universe where a guy is completely unrecognisable if he takes off his glasses, but still...

[Trini]

24 minutes ago, John Potts said:

2 If "Luke" is Lucius Fox, isn't he a little young? Granted, he could be a different character in this Bat-verse, but he has the same role as in the Nolan-verse as Bruce's secret keeper and presumably tech-guy (given he can modify the Batsuit that easily).

Yeah, he playing a similar role; but he's Luke - Lucius' son in this version.

[Camera One]

I had scheduled this show to tape on my PVR, and I am running out of space, so finally decided to try this.

I found this episode rather boring, and I didn't find any of the characters likeable or interesting.  The main character was rather monotone and expressionless throughout.  Everyone else was forgettable.  I didn't feel chemistry between any of the characters, the dad, the stepsister, the love interest, etc.   The rushed backstory and jumping right into the action made it hard for me to connect with anyone, not even Kate.

After watching "Gotham", I think I was a little tired of Gotham City as a place with zero hope, or "quirky" villains like the Alice character.  It just felt like something I had watched a hundred times before. 

It picked up a little near the end even Kate found out about Bruce Wayne being Batman, but that guy who looked like he was in high school randomly working there took me out of the story.  

I don't really feel motivated to watch more... maybe I'll keep the show for a little longer just in case. 

Edited May 3, 2021 by Camera One