S01.E05: Adventure

[kieyra]

Joe and Gordon attempt to find a new piece of kit for the computer. Cameron struggles with his new manager.

Didn't watch this yet but was kind of counting on you guys to let me know if I should. No topic thread at 11:30 doesn't bode well.

Edited June 30, 2014 by kieyra

[88Keys]

Well, I liked it.  I did miss last week, so I can't tell you how it compared to that.  We found out a lot about Joe's father, the company seemed to make some actual progress on the machine, and both Cameron and Gordon stood up to Joe.  Oh, and the Code Monkeys (other software engineers) were great.  I would watch a whole show about them. 

[LJonEarth]

It's getting better....I think. This is honestly the strangest show with the weirdest pacing, I've ever seen, and I used to watch Adult Swim.

 

I'm not quite sure I understand what Joe's father was trying to get out of Cameron.

 

I really hope they're not writing her to fall for Joe. That last look she gave him was troubling.

[Armchair Critic]

I like YoYo

[NorthstarATL]

I thought the episode was pretty good. Joe's still a creep, but we see a bit of where he's coming from. And Cameron was much better this week than last, which I'd like to attribute to Donna's impact on her, though there's no actual evidence. Not enough Donna, and I hope they don't have her go the affair route. I don't want her husband to acquire a moral high ground that he hasn't earned. Joe has anger issues apparently. Perhaps they all do.

[Yolapukka]

I didn't care for that phone-call Donna got from her boss. It came off to me like he called on a work-related excuse and then started flirting with her, I found it uncomfortable to watch. I had the same feeling when they had that initial meeting when they were doing a catch-up between old friends where he threw in some gratuitous remarks about his wife that sounded irritated rather than affectionate. Whether the writing is prefacing an affair or harassment, I don't think I'll find it fun to watch Donna having to deal with yet another thing turning to crap, awesome though she is with turning things around when they go to crap. 

[Peace 47]

I like YoYo

I like that Cameron liked YoYo.  It was nice to see her making professional contacts and developing work relationships (especially coming a couple of episodes after she realized that she was growing out of her rebellious, hang-out-with-kids-she-met-on-a-street-corner-and-do-drugs phase).  I worry about her having to be the boss though, when, as Joe pointed out, she not only has no management experience, but no work experience, either, and it almost borders on unfair to put someone in that kind of position when managing people is, frankly, a bitch.  She clearly has a vision, though, so maybe it will work out for her.  Good for her in grabbing the brass ring.

 

I would say that I am souring on Gordon, but I never really liked him in the first place.  I guess that it just irks me that he keeps using Donna to make his life easier without taking much interest in her career or their family (he obviously ignored her comment that it was her father's birthday).  And just like he dismisses and uses Donna until she can do something that directly benefits him, he does the same with her family to get what he wants when he wants it.  (He obviously cared not one bit that it was his father-in-law's birthday and was borderline rude to the man at breakfast, but if the guy can hook Gordon up with cheap parts, then sure, Gordon will play nice.)  I think that it was supposed to be a moment of redemption for him when he came home and saw Donna (was that her playing a synthesizer like a boss?--I am in love with this character).  That is, I think the moment was one where he decided not to burden her with trying to fix his failure and went crawling back to his father-in-law on his own.  But I'd like to see Gordon learn to appreciate and respect people's strengths--Joe's salesmanship, his father-in-law's business acumen, Cameron's genius, Donna's everything.  I get the impression that he casts himself as the misunderstood genius and expects everyone else to cater to him.

 

Good episode, though.  I especially liked the business aspects of this one--the navigation of social mores across cultures, the Cardiff staff bonding moments, the management shuffle.  I don't watch a lot of shows that do office politics at all, let alone well, and it actually can be an interesting story.

[Yolapukka]

 

I really hope they're not writing her to fall for Joe. That last look she gave him was troubling.

 

 

The look he gave her was unsettling too, he was showboating for her by the end of that.  Joe seems like someone who could get creepy(ier) if a relationship went beyond serial booty-calls.

Edited June 30, 2014 by yuggapukka

[renatae]

Just about laughed out loud at Joe telling Cameron *she* had no people skills. Pot, meet kettle. Of course, Joe can turn on a little charm when necessary, but since it's mostly BS masquerading as goodwill, he has a long way to go. And "professionalism." No, she hasn't any. Where, Joe, did you get the idea that you possess it? Please. Just because you've figured out how to turn on the oil after you've skeeved over someone doesn't make you any sort of professional except a professional con.

 

Gordon seemed like a nice if ineffectual guy to me until people started pointing out that he is a user. That's becoming more and more clear, especially when he couldn't be bothered about his FIL's birthday, but voila! He suddenly has time for golf.

 

Loved it when the Japanese stole Joe's thunder by saying they would do anything for Gary's son-in-law. Then, once again, it was Gary to the rescue after Joe and Gordon messed it up. It was good to learn that Gordon had (I hope) apologized abjectly. It saved me from deciding his  antics were running a close second to Joe's.

 

Why is Donna's keyboard in the garage?

 

Loved Cameron's litte homage - "I'm taking over Steve's job." Although, she threw out a couple of anachronisms by calling Steve a "tool" and saying, "What was I thinking." I'm liking her this week.

Edited June 30, 2014 by renatae

[thuganomics85]

At least it was only a car that got taken out tonight.  No animals harmed in this episode!

 

In all seriousness, I thought it was continued improvement.  Joe is still an unlikable sociopath to me, but meeting his dad and learning more about his background, did at least explain a few things.  But the biggest improvement was easily Cameron.  Bringing these Lev and Yoyo characters is a great idea, IMO, because we finally see Cameron being friendly and having fun with these two.  For once, I don't feel like she consistently playing up her "rebel" status with them.  I feel like her actual personality comes out instead, which is really, really needed.  Good call, show.  Hopefully, they'll keep it up, and she'll grow as a person, and not regress to the Cameron from the pasts (just stay the hell away from Joe!)

 

On the other hand, it was Gordon's turn to annoy me tonight.  Besides standing up to Joe, which was awesome, he really did almost screw the pooch big time, and honestly came off like an a-hole to almost everyone.  I don't think he is a horrible person or anything, but he is coming off like someone who doesn't appreciate what people do for him (Donna, his father in-law, and even Cameron), and he really, really can't read a room to save his life.  I couldn't believe he didn't realize how much he was pissing the Japanese guys off with his hands-on approach (especially at the urinal; dude, bathroom etiquette!), and smack-talking his father in-law.  I'm glad he was the one who fixed things by begging, instead of Joe, but Gordon needs to shape up in his own way.

 

Speaking of the father in-law, great casting with Chris Mulkey.  He's one of those character actors I always enjoy seeing.

 

John and Donna didn't do too much.  Only massive complaint I have at the moment.

[Cheetosandchoc]

I agree with most of what others said. Was not sure I was going to continue with this show. There was definitely an improvement tonight.

I guess it helps that there was NOTHING else on.

[DrSpaceman]

 I think the biggest problem with this show is the biggest protaginist, Joe, its just an unlikeable jerk.  I know how the trend is the deeply flawed protaginist anymore in dramas, but at some level you have to feel some identification with the character or they need to have some positive qualities that makes you root for them.  Joe has neither.  Think about say Don Draper, the closest comparison.  He is a womanizer and alcoholic, a loner, but he is incredibly talented, charming, has great business sesne most of the time, he knows his business and how to get results.  Walter White, meth dealer, but you can also sympathize on some level with his character.  He has cancer.  A life that didn't go as planned.  Again is incredibly smart (to a fault), cunning, etc.  There is a balance of the positive/negative, especially in the beginning if not so much towards the end.  You could go on and on with other great characters.  Its just not there with Joe.  I get the feeling the writers expect us to be sympathetic because of some abusive childhood or father issues, but its really not enough, especially when we don't know the truth of those areas of his life.  He forced himself into the company and forced them through no choice of the company into a showdown with IBM.  He is a manipulative boss, slept with the woman he hired for one of the main jobs, doesn't tell that same person basically she is beign severely demoted while on a vacation after she completes the one task he needs her for.  He works other people to his advantage and uses them until he gets what he wants out of them

 

Frankly he deserved the ass kicking he got from the cops (which was really from his boss, not the cops) and likely deserved whatever ass kickings he had from others he got as a kid if this is how he has always acted.  Not from his father, that type of abuse is not justified, but if he has always treated other people the way he has been treating his current coworkers, I can see why he has spent a lifetime getting beat up.  He probably deserved it all. 

 

The set up to the story and the David vs Goliath angle doesn't really work when you don't like David and almost root for Goliath instead.  Even meeting his father doesn't explain it all away.  Or even much of it, in my opinion. 

Edited June 30, 2014 by DrSpaceman

[Shriekingeel]

Obviously they need to do something with Donna to make her less perfect and Mary-Sue-ish. Right now she's an essentially perfect person: a brilliant technician and inventor and flawless keyboard player and great mom and workplace mentor who also happens to look like Kerry Bishe'. An affair would be a cheap way to humanize her though, especially if it's with Jerky Boss Guy, who is too reminiscent of Ted from Breaking Bad.

I did like how Cameron learned to execute audacious personnel moves from Joe's dad.

[AriAu]

Why was Cameron in Cincinnati? Oh yeah, so Joe could hire a whole bunch of other people, who did not even have time to hang their poster for the Greatest American Hero. That is perfect since every episode has me going "Believe it or not...."

 

I cringed watching Gordon screw up with the Japanese business men, even when he tried so hard to be ready. He is really a sad sack of a guy and I hope he is not paid back by having his wife sleep with her boss.

 

I keep watching to see what is going to happen and each week I have the same answer....not much. This show has to end after one season, right? They launch the product and that is it.

[scowl]

This episode didn't bug me as much as any previous episode. They finally appear to be making a product -- good news. I liked the contrast between the old engineers and the young engineers to Cameron. The old married guys were dismissive of the little girl while the young guys were thrilled to see a woman they may have a shot at.

 

Why did Cameron think she was going to Cincinnati? To look hot in her hotel room?

 

Nice of them to bring up the Mythical Man-Month but what the hell are all these software people doing? Why are they working on printer drivers? Does Cardiff also make printers? Maybe I'm not paying enough attention.

 

I agree with DrSpaceman: Joe is a dick and needs more than a beat down by the local authorities and that makes it impossible for me to root for him to succeed in any way. He's the worst boss ever, the kind that makes impossible demands to his employees and sells things to customers that don't exist and expect his employees to make them exist because his reputation is at stake. His dick-swinging presentation about Cardiff being moments away from become the greatest computer manufacturer was an eye-rolling embarrassment. Let them know when you have something they can sell, Joe.

 

Even worse, the engineers (at least the older ones) act like they're at the complete mercy of Joe. OK, we didn't have the best economy in 1982 and the thought of moving to another city for a job was not a great option with interest rates so high, but lordy how can this place function with a dictatorial management? These were the companies that failed.

 

I hope to see more of the cultural difference between the old short-sleeves-and-ties engineers and the young t-shirts-and-jeans newcomers. The new guys won't have daddy issues (except for Cameron of course) and if the show is genuine, they won't be kissing Joe's ass. I hope that's where it's going.

[annlaw78]

 

I think the biggest problem with this show is the biggest protaginist, Joe, its just an unlikeable jerk.

I don't find him unlikeable necessarily.  If anything, this episode made me a little more pro-Joe.  Joe was raised essentially by a bigger version of him, and not only has sales "in the blood," but presumably was raised on a steady diet of it, with sides of intense pressure and constant criticism.  He is certainly good working at room (a quality I envy), less so in managing staff.  But I don't disagree that Cameron is probably ill-suited to be managing a pool of software engineers, and Gordon should have zero client or vendor interaction.  That Joe doesn't sugar-coat it, I kind of like. 

 

I don't blame him for hiring someone to run the software pit, given what we've seen of Cameron thus far and her organizational/leadership skills.  But when she stepped up to the plate and started selling herself in the role -- instead of petulantly assuming Joe would give it to her -- Joe went with it. 

 

 

I really hope they're not writing her to fall for Joe. That last look she gave him was troubling.

I hope they go more of a mentor-route, and less of a romance.  She knows where he comes from now, and I think that helps her "get" him a bit more -- he's got a massive jerk of a father, the kind that bosses around doormen to let them in where he's not supposed to be because he's alienated from his son.  I hope that with all the talk of important woman coders through the years, she took away from Joe Sr. (and last week's Donna pep talk) that she can have a major role in computers -- not just at Cardiff, but just in general.  So I took the look as being fired up that Joe's fired up (and out of his Daddy Issues Funk), and really into the project.  Or, maybe she just thought he looked super-dreamy.  I kinda doubt that. 

 

 

I like that Cameron liked YoYo.  It was nice to see her making professional contacts and developing work relationships (especially coming a couple of episodes after she realized that she was growing out of her rebellious, hang-out-with-kids-she-met-on-a-street-corner-and-do-drugs phase).  I worry about her having to be the boss though, when, as Joe pointed out, she not only has no management experience, but no work experience, either, and it almost borders on unfair to put someone in that kind of position when managing people is, frankly, a bitch.  She clearly has a vision, though, so maybe it will work out for her.  Good for her in grabbing the brass ring.

I agree -- I was glad that Cameron has her "group" now in Cardiff (since obviously she wasn't going to be making Orange Julius runs with Debbie).  While everyone needs motivating, I think that the idea is that she's gotten the cream of the crop, the super-obsessives who will knock out the code and don't have lives outside the office to worry about. 

 

 

Obviously they need to do something with Donna to make her less perfect and Mary-Sue-ish. Right now she's an essentially perfect person: a brilliant technician and inventor and flawless keyboard player and great mom and workplace mentor who also happens to look like Kerry Bishe'.

I agree with this.  And I know that there weren't yoga pants back in the 1980s, but I have a hard time believing she does all of her cooking in her work clothes.  She's sitting around making pies at night and hasn't changed out into something more comfy? 

 

Random things:

- It was kind of cute that Cameron thought "Concierge" was a last name.

- Joe is going full-Dallas with his boot-and-suit combo.

- I liked the nuance of Gordon's relationship with his in-laws.  You can tell that there's tension there, but no one is overtly rude to each other, and, in fact, despite the fact that you get the sense Donna's father thinks Gordon is a bit of a loser, he still wanted to golf with him. He's trying!

Edited July 7, 2014 by annlaw78

[NorthstarATL]

 

And I know that there weren't yoga pants back in the 1980s, but I have a hard time believing she does all of her cooking in her work clothes.  She's sitting around making pies at night and hasn't changed out into something more comfy?

I know a LOT of people, myself included, that consider cooking after work to be an extension of the workday, and do that particular set of chores before changing! I had two female roommates in the eighties who dressed almost exactly like Donna in that scene, and evenings were the three of us doing that very thing in the same attire (though I was dressed more like Joe)! I think we had the same vodka as well!

[TC3200]

...  I'm not quite sure I understand what Joe's father was trying to get out of Cameron.    ...

 It was a business trip as IBM spy.   I think he was there under guise of friendship/fatherhood soley to spy on how the new computer was coming along and develop strategy for how IBM could counter or torpedo it.    Joe probably figured that out and decided to avoid Dad.    So, Dad tried to ply Cameron with liquor and flattery hoping to get insider information from her.    I didn't record the episode, but I think all Cameron said was "they hired a bunch of programmers" but not much more.  And most of those programmers got fired, so that info ends up being false.

Edited June 30, 2014 by TC3200

[kieyra]

Had a chance to check it out. Episode five was finally getting closer to what I expected this show to be. There were a few little hiccups; they couldn't have telegraphed any more clearly that Gordon was going to fuck up with the Japanese businessmen. We get it, show. But I was pleasantly surprised by Cameron--that was the Cameron I've been hoping to see. And goddamn if the show didn't make me laugh when whatshisname turned out to be stuck in Adventure. 

 

And I didn't expect Joe Sr to project the image of 'perfectly reasonable' so well. Cameron figured him out WAY before I did. 

 

Still hate Joe Jr. Still don't think casting him in a primary role, if they were going to characterize him this way, was a good idea. Yes yes, Steve Jobs, I get it, but I'm talking about what makes a good television protagonist, not historical accuracy. 

[equinoxx]

Why was Cameron in Cincinnati?

As near as I could tell, with the code complete, Cardiff contracted with a Cincinnati-based firm (Eaton MicroTech) to burn the BIOS ROMs, and as a "reward," Joe sent Cameron to the plant to pick up the prototypes (hence the package she brought back that was rushed off to Gordon and the engineers to see if it would pass POST on their mockup).

[hucklebuck74]

I absolutely loved the coder monkeys. As much as I dislike Cameron, she was right in opposing manager guy. He seemed to be trying to run IBM Jr. I also really enjoyed Gordo standing up to Joe... first calling him out for being all talk and then letting him know that he was the one who needed to be saying thanks for bringing the Japanese back

[GaT]

I finally got around to watching this episode, & it was meh. I didn't hate it, I didn't love it. They still haven't explained what Joe's problem is, & this is episode 5 already. He can't keep being a psycho asshole without an explanation. At least Cameron seems to be showing some growth. I still don't like Gordon.

[Jeebus Cripes]

Frankly he deserved the ass kicking he got from the cops (which was really from his boss, not the cops) and likely deserved whatever ass kickings he had from others he got as a kid if this is how he has always acted.  Not from his father, that type of abuse is not justified, but if he has always treated other people the way he has been treating his current coworkers, I can see why he has spent a lifetime getting beat up.  He probably deserved it all. 

 

I don't think he deserved to get brutally beat by two cops just because he's an asshole. That's extreme. Made me lose all respect for his boss, to be honest.

Edited July 1, 2014 by Jeebus Cripes

[attica]

Scoot McNair plays blotto really well. I loved him standing in the men's room amusing himself by repeating "Schlock. Schllllllooooock." Hee!

 

What'd that poor car do that everybody had to hit it with a sledgehammer? It's not like it was a Gremlin!

 

I'm definitely going to try some vodka in my next apple pie crust.

[scowl]

 

As near as I could tell, with the code complete, Cardiff contracted with a Cincinnati-based firm (Eaton MicroTech) to burn the BIOS ROMs, and as a "reward," Joe sent Cameron to the plant to pick up the prototypes (hence the package she brought back that was rushed off to Gordon and the engineers to see if it would pass POST on their mockup).

 

Cardiff doesn't have its own ROM burner? I was burning my own EPROMs back then with a friend's burner (it was not expensive). It was critical to test with EPROMS (erasable ROMs) because you would eventually find bugs and ROMs were not cheap throwaway items.

 

Come to think of it, have they done any extensive testing with Cameron's ROM yet? Is that what all the software guys are for?

[annlaw78]

I'm surprised that Joe hasn't come up with some sort of fantastic name for the PC yet.  It seems like that would be right in his wheelhouse, branding and marketing. 

 

Speaking of which, the ad for the Cardiff PC seems really familiar.  Does anybody know if it's referring to a real ad?

[apgold]

 

h yeah, so Joe could hire a whole bunch of other people, who did not even have time to hang their poster for the Greatest American Hero. That is perfect since every episode has me going "Believe it or not...."

 

I noticed that too, LOL. I watched that show as a kid in 1983.  I don't remember much of it at all, except William Katt (whatever happened to him?) flying clumsily around in that hero suit.

 

I'm enjoying the power struggle between Joe and Gordon and that Gordon isn't just letting him push him around.

 

Cameron looked a bit less "feral" (great word) in this episode.  I'm looking forward to her leading the "coder monkeys."

[Hanahope]

Does anyone know if the game they talked about, Adventure, was real or not? 

 

I did like how Cameron sussed out the good coders by who cheated in the game, and that she got along with several of them.  Girl needs real friends.

 

One the one hand, it looked like only a couple of days had passed, Joe was still very sore and bruised from the beating.  Yet enough time had passed to hire a whole mess of coders?

 

Gordon really does need to get his act together, or at least his drinking.  Guy has a real problem and it was stupid of him to bad mouth his father in law, when the Japanese had specifically said  they were meeting with him because of his father in law.

 

I agree that it seems like they are setting up an affair or at least the offering of an affair between Donna and her boss and that makes me real sad that they feel the need to go there.

[annlaw78]

 

One the one hand, it looked like only a couple of days had passed, Joe was still very sore and bruised from the beating.  Yet enough time had passed to hire a whole mess of coders?

Joe probably started the interview/hiring process weeks ago while Cameron was working on the BIOS, and the start-date coincided with Cameron's trip to Ohio.  It seemed a bit goofy that they had Cameron, alone, working on the BIOS since she was, as Joe put it, a bottleneck.  It stands to reason with the time-pressure, Joe would be ready to pull the trigger on writing the rest of the software. 

[scowl]

 

Cameron looked a bit less "feral" (great word) in this episode.  I'm looking forward to her leading the "coder monkeys."

 

I'm looking forward to finding out what the hell "coder monkeys" are doing at a hardware company that's making a PC that is supposed to be 100% compatible with existing software. Cardiff becomes more mysterious every week!

[Scott]

Does anyone know if the game they talked about, Adventure, was real or not? 

 

It is definitely real.  The "magic words" they talk about and the "maze of twisty little passages" that someone asked about while they were playing are real components of the game.

[Jamoche]

Does anyone know if the game they talked about, Adventure, was real or not? 

Yeah, it was the original text-based adventure, like Zork and the other Infocom games, and the "twisty little passages all alike" phrase is still commonly used.

I found a walkthrough: http://www.ir.bbn.com/~bschwart/adventure.html

[ffg]

Does anyone know if the game they talked about, Adventure, was real or not? 

 

 

It's downloadable for many platforms here: http://rickadams.org/adventure/e_downloads.html

[GaT]

I'm looking forward to finding out what the hell "coder monkeys" are doing at a hardware company that's making a PC that is supposed to be 100% compatible with existing software. Cardiff becomes more mysterious every week!

Sigh, it's this kind of shit that makes it hard for me to like this show. You obviously know about this stuff, but I don't, so it would never occur to me to wonder. It's like watching a medical show & no one ever gives the obligatory explanation of what the disease is.

[scowl]

Sorry, redundant post.

Sigh, it's this kind of shit that makes it hard for me to like this show. You obviously know about this stuff, but I don't, so it would never occur to me to wonder. It's like watching a medical show & no one ever gives the obligatory explanation of what the disease is.

 

What might be cool (in a fictional sense) is if TPTB are going to make Joe a Steve Jobs visionary and these programmers were hired to make something like a Mac user interface. There were products that let you run multiple MS-DOS programs at the same time which, at the time, were really amazing.

 

But from what I've seen so far, Joe is more of a hot air machine than a visionary.

Edited July 2, 2014 by scowl

[hincandenza]

Well, this was far and away the best episode of the 5 so far... but that's practically damning with faint praise. I'm basically hate-watching this show, largely because as you all have observed there's nothing else on my DVR much of the week.

Plotwise, I really like the new code monkeys and their interactions with Cameron, but similar to scowl I can't imagine why a small company on the ropes that's betting the ranch on a PC clone are hiring so many people to do shit like... write printer drivers? Weren't they two months away from bankruptcy just a couple of episodes ago? I cant recall if they ever resolved the funding issue that Joe literally fucked them out of. That doesn't even make much sense in a modern company much less one from 1983, since usually the printer maker will create drivers for the major platforms- and this is supposed to be IBM compatible and likely running MS-DOS...

Then again, at this point they're making a relatively lightweight, LCD screen laptop at a competitive price in 1983, bundled with a full suite of OS and business apps, all written by like four code monkeys in a few weeks. If this season ends with them actually shipping this glittery unicorn of a product, then this show should have been aired on SyFy instead.

Character-wise, this remains one of the weirder shows I've ever seen; I feel that every tertiary character is a better human being, and far more likeable, than the major stars. For example, I was completely in the dark on what exactly Joe Sr. said to make Cameron suddenly hate him, because he seemed perfectly reasonable, especially compared to his sociopathic son. I also don't get that end sequence: do the writers want us to see something that wasn't there? Because all I saw was Patrick Bateman paying $100 to go unhinged, batshit crazy on a *Japanese* car (the symbolism remains subtle as always) in full view of his many employees who inexplicably haven't yet run from the hills both personally and professionally.

Hell, even Gordon started out sympathetic, but he's so unbelievably clueless and socially inept at work and with his family that I can't root for him. Meanwhile, his wife is awesome and should be the focus of a different, better show, but is unfortunately such a total Mary Sue that I sadly think HanaHope is right: she's probably ultimately just a plot device to betray Gordon with an affair and show the "personal cost" of the Cardiff effort, while leaving him magically blameless for his many failings as husband and father.

Although- to my point about the tertiary characters- Donna's boss actually seems decent. He's demanding, sure, but fair and demanding with reason, and he (unlike Gordon or Joe or Cameron ever do, except that single time with Joe this episode) apologized for snapping at her. Maybe she *should* dump that loser Gordon.

[scowl]

 

Then again, at this point they're making a relatively lightweight, LCD screen laptop at a competitive price in 1983, bundled with a full suite of OS and business apps, all written by like four code monkeys in a few weeks. If this season ends with them actually shipping this glittery unicorn of a product, then this show should have been aired on SyFy instead.

 

Is that what they're trying to do, quickly slap together some exclusive software with their computer? That's going to fail since everyone will want to run VisiCalc and eventually Lotus 1-2-3 on it. If they want to bundle software they should take the Osborne road and cut deals with software companies to distribute existing popular software. Wow, imagine if it shipped with a free copy of Lotus 1-2-3. That would sell boxes.

 

After thinking a little more, they might really need to write a printer driver for their box. These days we associate a printer driver with a printer but back then the driver was associated with the computer hardware which did nothing but send characters to the printer. If the chips they're using for the RS-232 and/or parallel printer ports are new, there might not be drivers for them. Of course they completely threw us off by talking about graphic printers which weren't a driver feature at all.

[Yolapukka]

 

I was completely in the dark on what exactly Joe Sr. said to make Cameron suddenly hate him, because he seemed perfectly reasonable, especially compared to his sociopathic son.

 

He is smoother and more plausible than his son certainly, but there is a definite unpleasant streak to him. He noticed that Cameron had airforce wings on her bag and asked if they were her father's, mentioned his own service, said her dad was lucky to have a daughter and spoke kindly when he seemed to realize that her father was dead and said what seemed to be the right things until she was so distraught she had to leave the room. He made a slight smirk after she stepped away, which she would not have seen but the audience was meant to observe. He knew her father was probably dead when he mentioned the wings insignia on her backpack. Generally people carry a memento like that so they can have a piece of someone they've lost with them. Joe Sr. showing the "sensitivity' to realize her father had died was all an act, he'd brought her dad into the conversation to get under her skin emotionally. Her reaction confirmed what he already thought and he kept playing with her over something painful she keeps private. She caught on to the manipulation when she calmed down. Also, every story or superficially affectionate comment he made about his son was tinged with negativity. That I could give a pass to under the circumstances, but it was a factor in her antipathy to him. 

Edited July 3, 2014 by yuggapukka

[larapu2000]

How does anything at Cardiff EVER get done?  People are fired left and right, they promote dirty punk girl because she has a decent idea on how to structure and run the coders, and the big boss is stuck in the cave in Adventure.

 

I really hate the way sales presentations are depicted in movies and TV.  It's not Don Draper's wonderful magic pitch that gives you tears.  It's literally discussing the minutiae that those guys were asking questions about.  It's about how YOUR product is going to solve THEIR problem.  GAH!

 

I feel like Joe needs to understand and know less about computers, or have someone that is a key figure used as an exposition monkey, because although this episode was definitely better with understanding what they were doing and why, it's still a little unclear.  I vote for things to light up and people to cheer if something good happens on the computer.  I liked that.  I understood that.  

Edited July 3, 2014 by larapu2000

[ganesh]

The scene with Cameron and Joe Sr was good because it was Cameron being smart without all the usual snapping at people. This was a good episode for her. 

 

I didn't care for that phone-call Donna got from her boss. It came off to me like he called on a work-related excuse and then started flirting with her, I found it uncomfortable to watch.

 

I thought it was inappropriate too, but she kept the conversation going too.

 

Besides standing up to Joe, which was awesome, he really did almost screw the pooch big time, and honestly came off like an a-hole to almost everyone. I couldn't believe he didn't realize how much he was pissing the Japanese guys off with his hands-on approach (especially at the urinal; dude, bathroom etiquette!), and smack-talking his father in-law. 

 

If you can't handle your booze then don't push it. Gordon can get snippy with Joe all he wants, but he made the mess and had to clean it up. Who touches people like that they just meant and what was clearly a professional meeting?

 

I think the biggest problem with this show is the biggest protaginist, Joe, its just an unlikeable jerk.  I know how the trend is the deeply flawed protaginist anymore in dramas, but at some level you have to feel some identification with the character or they need to have some positive qualities that makes you root for them.

I don't have to root or like anyone on a show, but I know that's rare. On the other hand, it's fairly well known that Jobs was really an asshole irl too. So I don't think they're making Joe a jerk just to be a jerk. I do think it was good that he was willing to listen to Cameron about firing most of the coders and who she would keep. 

 

I agree that it seems like they are setting up an affair or at least the offering of an affair between Donna and her boss and that makes me real sad that they feel the need to go there.

 

Ugh. Because "affair" is the only thing you can write for a married woman on tv when you want conflict. Hopefully there won't be an affair and she'll tell her asshole boss to fuck off and then go work at Cardiff.

[scowl]

 

I really hate the way sales presentations are depicted in movies and TV.  It's not Don Draper's wonderful magic pitch that gives you tears.  It's literally discussing the minutiae that those guys were asking questions about.  It's about how YOUR product is going to solve THEIR problem.  GAH!

 

There is an industry rule about sales presentations that should never be broken: never bring a technical person to one. We have a habit of telling the truth.

 

I once was allowed to sit in the back of a sales presentation under one condition: "Keep your mouth shut". I wanted to see what the customers were asking for since what was coming through management didn't make any sense to us. I discovered it was because they were promising them things that computers couldn't do twenty years ago. You can understand why I hate Joe.

[qtpye]

Joe is the type of manager that you usually find in a Dilbert cartoon, but with better hair.

[larapu2000]

There is an industry rule about sales presentations that should never be broken: never bring a technical person to one. We have a habit of telling the truth.

 

Ha, I suppose it depends on the industry, as I always defer to our technical team to address a "can or can't we" situation.  I also never promise a customer something-it's always an "we'll do our best to fit those parameters," with the understanding that sometimes technology/components/ingredients just haven't caught up to a great idea yet.  

 

What bothers me about Joe is that if he were honestly in a room with a bunch of real people and he started rambling on about that "third shelf," the customer would respond "could you repeat that again, in fucking ENGLISH?" because it made so little sense.  I thought the Texan (why can I not remember his name???) did a better job with the customer, busting their balls about reading their manuals.  THAT is real.  LOL

[ganesh]

Yeah, but he's being short sighted in expecting that the manuals are going to be read. These people were coming into the meeting based on the big article with Joe's face on it. They wanted to be wowed and Joe knew it and played them like a violin.

 

Anyone notice Cameron's goofy typing style? It's not quite two fingered typing and she kind of perches over the keyboard. I wonder if that's the actor's choice?

[annlaw78]

 

Anyone notice Cameron's goofy typing style? It's not quite two fingered typing and she kind of perches over the keyboard. I wonder if that's the actor's choice?

She looks like Schroeder at the piano. 

 

 

What bothers me about Joe is that if he were honestly in a room with a bunch of real people and he started rambling on about that "third shelf," the customer would respond "could you repeat that again, in fucking ENGLISH?" because it made so little sense.  I thought the Texan (why can I not remember his name???) did a better job with the customer, busting their balls about reading their manuals.  THAT is real.  LOL

Joe was sort of making up terms -- top shelf v. bottom shelf is a thing, but I've never heard of "third shelf" or "kludge shelf."  Or maybe those are terms familiar to stores.

Edited July 3, 2014 by annlaw78

[Kel Varnsen]

I really wish we could get some more back story on how Gordon and Donna got together. Because after this episode it makes even less sense. After last episode I mentioned I was surprised that the quiet nerdy guy would be able to get with the hot, confident and talented girl. But after this one he is the quiet nerdy guy with terrible and almost offensive social skills. 

 

Also did that adventure game the coders were playing have any relation to the Atari 2600 game of the same name?

 

It was also this episode where I realized I am probably around the same age as Gordon and Donna's kids.

[dubbel zout]

I really wish we could get some more back story on how Gordon and Donna got together.

 

Didn't they meet in college (Berkeley)? I assume their interest in computers is what drew them together. The Symphonic disaster likely affected Gordon much more than Donna. He was probably always socially awkward, but maybe after that he decided he didn't want to even try anymore. It did seem like a crushing blow when it didn't work out.

[Kel Varnsen]

Didn't they meet in college (Berkeley)? I assume their interest in computers is what drew them together. The Symphonic disaster likely affected Gordon much more than Donna. He was probably always socially awkward, but maybe after that he decided he didn't want to even try anymore. It did seem like a crushing blow when it didn't work out.

I think you are right about them meeting in college. But at the same time if she was just looking for a guy who shared her interest in computers, if she was studying computers at Berkeley, she would have literally been surrounded by guys that shared the same interest. As we learn more about Gordon's personality, it makes me wonder what drew her to him. I can see how like you said, the failure of their earlier project changed him, hopefully if that is the case they go into that a bit more.

[ganesh]

Also did that adventure game the coders were playing have any relation to the Atari 2600 game of the same name?

 

No. Adventure was just a text based game on the computers. The Atari game had castles, mazes, and dragons. You had to find a chalice and return it to one of the castles. 

[Dowel Jones]

 

Gordo standing up to Joe...

I really liked the little detail in that scene of Gordon's fingers twitching like mad.  He KNEW he had torpedoed the meeting, and was bluffing Joe in standing up to him, but it worked.

 

Or maybe those are terms familiar to stores.

Product placement is everything, so I understand.  I have read where big block stores like Walmart will negotiate with suppliers over price, to get their products at eye level in the store, because that product gets picked more often.  I notice it in the supermarket, too.  Take a look at which cereals are at kids-eye level and which are at adult-eye level.

I liked how it showed how the Japanese businessmen were rather reticent about their achievements with the LCD screen.  It has been pointed out that one of our big disadvantages in the US at that time was that American businessmen and product engineers tended to brag about their product specs and capabilities, and thus gave away the company store to outsiders.

 

So where is Cameron going to stay now?