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S16.E14: Top 4 Perform

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GREAT SHOW!  I think I agree with Nigel: that dance with Bailey & Gino was the highlight of the night!  Btw, Bailey said that if he wins, he would be the 1st hip-hop guy to win SYTYCD.  Is that right?  Didn't Fik-shun win his season?

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Could Bailey be the first b-boy to win?

I absolutely loved everything about tonight's show. I don't think there was a single dance I hated. I enjoyed all the performances and thought everyone had great chemistry with one another and their all-stars. And there were quite a few songs I really liked and need to look into further. And, while I really like all four dancers, I would be over the moon if Bailey won. 

And I can't tell you how excited I was to see the quick step! I feel like it's been ages since we've seen anyone perform that particular style on this show and I forgot how fun it could be, especially when danced well. 

I'm still bummed the tour isn't coming to Montreal, damn it. I would love to see some of tonight's performances in person. 

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18 minutes ago, bourbon said:

Yes, and Russell Ferguson won his season, too.

Ferguson and Fikshun are not B Boys. Bailey will be the first B Boy to win which is what he said.

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As Fox isn't interested in Canadian votes this time (why? drives me nuts)  Both SYTYCD and DWTS used to accept Canadian votes and now neither does (unless DWTS has a Canadian contestant, when they sometimes let us through).

Anyhow - it was a good show.  I didn't really like any of the solos which was interesting. How was the first dance, I missed that?

I wish they wouldn't let Robert talk, but his dance with Mariah was achingly beautiful.  I loved Gino and Bailey and that dance.

I wish Comfort and Bailey's dance had a litte more contrast with the background.  I've watched it three times and I feel like I'm not seeing it all.  

The catty girls dance was alright, but I feel it could have been funnier and I feel that's on the dancers a bit.

I think I've got my final four - Bailey, Mariah, Gino, Sophie.  I'm afraid it's more likely to go in solo order though - Bailey Gino Mariah Sophie.  This would be a good time to have a male winner and a female winner again.  I liked that.

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Also, it's in my memory that Bailey is quite seriously cross-trained.  I feel like he got given jazz-type dances a lot and he looked quite trained in some of the moves.

There's a kind of forward roundhouse he kept being asked to do which he did amazingly poorly almost every time and I find that odd in a bboy of his talents.  He could fake it (which I suspect is why he kept being given it), but somehow he couldn't get the necessary extension on the kick which caused him to have no loft at all.

I call bs on the Mariah crush.

Also, I did not see Gino's walls come down when he was dancing except with Bailey.

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Bailey is the best performer on the show. Much more natural than Gino. He should win. I'm afraid Gino's dance with Melanie might sway the outcome towards him, especially with Bailey getting Bollywood.

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If I respond emotionally to a dance performance, the music usually has a lot to do with it.  

The Girl from Ipanema is such a cool song, and that version was new to me.  I was digging the RatPack vibe, had to rewind to catch the graphic from the beginning to see who it was.  Another Nat King Cole posthumous duet (who can forget "Unforgettable"?), from a 2019  Gregory Porter release.  I wish one of the judges had give  it a shout-out.

https://www.soultracks.com/first-listen-nat-king-cole-gregory-porter-girl

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45 minutes ago, crowceilidh said:

As Fox isn't interested in Canadian votes this time (why? drives me nuts)  Both SYTYCD and DWTS used to accept Canadian votes and now neither does (unless DWTS has a Canadian contestant, when they sometimes let us through).

A fellow Canadian—no wonder you’re so awesome!

I didn’t realise that we could vote. I remember the few times I was in the States when the show was on, and was excited that I could vote. No SYTYCD voting, no good Super Bowl ads. That is the price we pay for being Canadian. 

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As the season draws to an end, I didn't find myself drawn to anyone's solos at all this season. Shame since I used to pick a favorite soloist out, and that person usually became a favorite by the time top 4 hit, if they made it. I guess Bailey comes closest, but meh.

Edited by displayname
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Holy Shit! Bailey pulled focus from Comfort! I didn't know that was possible. I have liked him, but I was more focused on Mariah in most of their pieces.  BUT DAMN! Well done, kiddo (also NorCal Pride!).

I feel they actually did a disservice to Sophie not giving her more variety in her dances.  She's great and feel like she wasn't really given the opportunity to show her ability due to keeping her in range of her style. Her hip hop was solid.  Also, hahaha "Mariah and I I play too girls who like each other but also want to beat each other... I guess." Shit she's endearing.

QUICK STEP!  Hell YEAH! 'Bout fucking time, Bitches! That's how you make quick step fun.  Great choreography allowing Mariah and Gino to show their personality.  I feel like it would have been more popular if it was done like then in the past. 

Damn Gino and Bailey killed it. I loved them.  Also, when Bailey jumped into Gino's arms my heart melted. Goddamn these kids are adorable. 

All four of them were great and tonight I acutely felt the shortened season. I feel like I would have connected with all of these dancers even more given the time. Watching Mariah and Robert together was magic.  It's just one example (along with the aforementioned Bailey with Comfort, as well as Sophie with Marco and Gino with Melanie) of what we missed out on with the short season.  I find myself resenting the lack of time and missed opportunity to enjoy these dancers exploring more styles and partnerships. 

I'm genuinely fine with any of these kids winning.  I have preferences, but they are all talented and fucking adorable. 

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Top 4 with all stars:

Sophie & Marko - contemporary (Talia Favia)

Gino & Melanie - contemporary (Jaci Royal)

Mariah & Robert - contemporary (Mandy Moore)

Bailey & Comfort - hip hop (Luther Brown)

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
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Opening - jazz (Mandy Moore)

Sophie & Gino - jazz (Ray Leeper)

Mariah & Bailey - jazz (Jonathan Redavid)

Sophie & Bailey - Bollywood (Nakul Dev Mahajan)

Mariah & Gino - quickstep (Artem & Sharna)

Bailey & Gino - Broadway (Al Blackstone)

Mariah & Sophie - hip hop (Luther Brown)

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I just realized that apparently I fell asleep during the replay and missed Sophie/Mariah and Gino/Bailey. Since I already deleted the show, thank ElectricBoogaloo!

I am shaking my head over all of you wondering who will win.  I have never heard screams as loud as those for Bailey. Especially in light of the fact that Gino already is slated to appear on Broadway, Bailey is 10,000% winning.

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I love you, Cat, but what was that yellow monstrosity you were wearing tonight? Those huge shoulders were ridiculous.

There's something about Sophie's movement quality as well as her performance/presentation that is a bit immature. It's the difference between a dance recital and a professional performance.

The choreography definitely makes a difference though. She was noticeably better in her contemporary with Marko, but the immaturity was back during her Bollywood dance. In contrast, Bailey had the right contrast of looseness, lightness, and precision for that dance.

Bailey's jazz with Mariah this week was an improvement over his Broadway with Koine last week.

Mariah and Gino's quickstep was so fun. It was nice to see a non-latin ballroom dance again. And yay for Artem!

I enjoyed Bailey and Gino's dance. They both had that easy quality that made the routine so cool and laidback.

On a shallow note, I hated the costume Sophie wore in her hip hop number with Mariah. The white briefs under the smaller black briefs made it look like she was a little kid with a diaper peeking out.

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
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I think Bailey will win, and he is the best performer in the top 4 (though not the best dancer- that is Gino, by far) but I’m really tired of his aw, shucks:

I’ve always dreamed of dancing with you

I've always dreamed of having you as a choreographer 

I have a crush on you

You really think I’m good?

Sophie did well this week, but I see her as top dancer at the studio, not as a professional dancer. Maybe with a few more years and more maturity in her dance, but not now.

Loved Mariah’s dance with Robert.

Guess now that Madison is gone they can finally whip out a quick step. They did an admirable job.

Enjoyed Gino and Bailey’s dance tonight. Gino pulled focus for me over Bailey. Really tired of them saying that Gino is guarded- he’s a very open and polished performer (though he doesn’t ham it at Bailey-level).

The judges and choreographers need to stop feigning surprise that all these dancers know multiple styles. You might call yourself a contemporary dancer, but unless you are studying ballet full stop, every dancer is cross trained these days.

Wasn't feeling any of the solos tonight.  

Now this is how you do a solo:

Perhaps an unpopular opinion, but I loved Boomcat as a judge once she calmed down from auditions. Then again, I’ve loved her since Making the Band.

Side note- when did Marko get so hot?

Edited by rlc
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On a shallow note, I hated the costume Sophie wore in her hip hop number with Mariah. The white briefs under the smaller black briefs made it look like she was a little kid with a diaper peeking out.

I actually loathed it so much that I suspected shenanigans.  Mariah's outfit was easily just super cool, but on top of Sophie having all that contempary dancing blonde not-the-best-we've-ever-seen stuff against her already, putting her in that outfit was a huge distraction from her dancing.  Everyone kept saying how surprisingly good she is at hip hop, but I didn't notice because of that hellacious costume.

Edited by crowceilidh
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2 hours ago, WhineandCheez said:

I am shaking my head over all of you wondering who will win.  I have never heard screams as loud as those for Bailey. Especially in light of the fact that Gino already is slated to appear on Broadway, Bailey is 10,000% winning.

Totally agree! Gino is the new Jess LeProtto. 

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1 hour ago, crowceilidh said:

I actually loathed it so much that I suspected shenanigans.  Marish's outfit was easily just super cool, but on top of Sophie having all that contempary dancing blonde not-the-best-we've-ever-seen stuff against her already, putting her in that outfit was a huge distraction from her dancing.  Everyone kept saying how surprisingly good she is at hip hop, but I didn't notice because of that hellacious costume.

Sophie was not good in that hip-hop.  I thought she would be better based on the little clip showed in the academy.  Half the time, I don't even think she was doing the moves.  She also wasn't low enough and couldn't shake her booty.  And I never want to see Nigel trying to shake his. 

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I have thought more than once Gino is going to follow in Jess LeProtto's footsteps and have a career as a Broadway dancer. In fact, I can imagine the two of them auditioning for the same show and only one get the part because they are so similar. I just don't know if Gino can tap as well as Jess.

After watching (actually scrutinizing) Gino and Bailey in their duet, I do not understand how anyone can say Gino's personality does not come out when he dances. It is insane how much he emotes and becomes the character in his performances. Gino told a story with his face but Bailey was not as animated with that story. 

Also.....watched them both perform their back flip. Gino is on the money with no waver at all and lands on both feet like buttah. Bailey OTOH, landed in a crouched position and it did not look as clean as Gino.

I'm afraid Gino won't win this show going by the audience reaction last night to Bailey. The girls don't have a shot. Not winning this show however will not hamper Gino at all going forward. He has a wonderful gift and I truly believe he will have a very lucrative career as a dancer.

Edited by luvthepros
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Really liked the All Star dances with the contestants.  It helps that the All Stars are seasoned but also that each contestant got to dance in their own style with an All Star that also specialized in that style.  Even though Comfort danced a lot this season and was always better than the contestant, I have always felt that she held back to not make the contestant look that bad.  That wasn't the case last night.  Comfort did not hold back.  Loved Bailey's and Comfort's dance.  They performed well and had great interaction with each other.  It was enjoyable to see them having fun.

Mariah looked gorgeous with her dance with Robert.  She got a chance to be a liftee with somebody that was tall and their lifts just flowed with the dance well. 

Really liked Bailey's and Gino's Broadway.  I could see both of them doing Broadway professionally.  I could also see Gino join a contemporary company while Bailey would get commercial work.  It would be nice to win but it's not necessary to have a good dance career.

Looking forward to the Cats movie and enjoyed the opening number.

It was nice to finally see a Standard ballroom number.  I already gave my thoughts to Sofie dancing hip-hop in another post.  I thought she would be better at it.  Mariah was a lot better.

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About that Quickstep.....Why was Gino's pants so short? He isn't that tall. Couldn't the wardrobe department afford to make his pants the proper length?

Loved Gabby in the Cats number. She looked beautiful in her white costume. Gabby is much more than a tapper. She is really has become a lovely contemporary dancer.

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3 hours ago, luvthepros said:

I have thought more than once Gino is going to follow in Jess LeProtto's footsteps and have a career as a Broadway dancer. In fact, I can imagine the two of them auditioning for the same show and only one get the part because they are so similar. I just don't know if Gino can tap as well as Jess.

After watching (actually scrutinizing) Gino and Bailey in their duet, I do not understand how anyone can say Gino's personality does not come out when he dances. It is insane how much he emotes and becomes the character in his performances. Gino told a story with his face but Bailey was not as animated with that story.

I think Gino's best dances have been his Broadway numbers.  Really enjoyed his/Sophie's number last week and Gino/Bailey's this week.  He obviously has great technique but he has the right kind of emotion too.  I think his personality/performance is better in Broadway than when he performs contemporary.   

For me, the problem is when he does dances that are outside his comfort zone.  He's a perfectionist that gets to inside his head.  So that means not jazz, contemporary, or Broadway but something like the Quickstep.  That's when it shows in his face and body language.  In contrast, somebody like Bailey and Benjamin give their heart and soul while they're dancing even when it's obviously not a dance they've ever danced before.   Gino came in as a really good dancer in contemporary and Broadway.  So there was no surprise that he was excellent in those styles.

Edited by realdancemom
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15 hours ago, rlc said:

I think Bailey will win, and he is the best performer in the top 4 (though not the best dancer- that is Gino, by far) 

I've never understood what this means. Not only is performance ability part of dancing, I don't think Gino is better than Bailey in purely dance technique either. Gino never did what Bailey did in his hip hops, not even close in fact. OTOH, while technically imperfect, Bailey's still danced relatively cleanly in his contemporary/jazz/broadway routines.

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I think I like the other 3 dancers over Sophie but she has improved SO much. I loved how in one of her packages she said something like, I was so sad when Eddie left but I'm lucky to have been paired up with Gino. I was like, yah so sad. I'm sure. And she is lucky because Eddie was bringing her down so much and Gino lifts her up so much. 

Similar thing happened with Madison and Ezra. Except Ezra was not as lucky to lose his partner early on and get paired with someone better. The final 2 boys may have been different if Madison was paired with someone else, she totally lost the spot for him. 

Anyway, I am happy with this final 4. I'm rooting for Bailey only because I liked him since academy but, I would be ok with any of them winning. 

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 I loved how in one of her packages she said something like, I was so sad when Eddie left but I'm lucky to have been paired up with Gino. I was like, yah so sad. I'm sure. And she is lucky because Eddie was bringing her down so much and Gino lifts her up so much. 

On the other hand, I thought it was nice of her to mention Eddie (because they all need as many fame fumes as they can get) and a little disappointed that they didn't quote Gino saying something about his first partner.

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This might've been the highest level of dance we saw all season. Even the slightly weaker dances (like say the Bollywood number) were still very strong and would've been in the running for dance of the night most of the other weeks.

I thought Marko and who ever the choreographer was (Redavid?) allowed to Sophie to reach a level that I'm not sure she reached at any other time this season. There was no tentativeness. She threw herself into that piece with abandon and it really worked. The Bollywood number with Bailey was solid, Nakul really does try to kill his dancers with blinding speed. I also wish there wouldn't have been two separate "from the wheelbarrow to the dance floor" lifts. Once would've been enough. The hip hop with Mariah was only marred by Sophie's costume and Luther running right up against that raunchy/exploitative line with a few of the moves he had them do.

One of the other dances that really stood out was Bailey and Gino. It was the last dance out of four they had for the night. They were probably exhausted. The judges would've likely given them a pass if they had phoned it in a little. Instead they crushed that piece. So good, so smooth, so much synchronization (even factoring in the height difference). A little disappointed in Bailey's solo (I think maybe he might've had an idea block) it was a little too much like at least one other solo he's done this year. But other than that, I think he earned the win that is most likely coming next Monday. Obviously the piece with Gino was the standout, but his hip hop with Comfort and his final piece with Mariah were standouts on the night too.

Even though they did a pretty good job with Artem/Sharna's QS...I still think the fact that Mariah and Gino got that dance is kind of the show's way of waving the white flag. Like they were acknowledging Bailey's voting dominance in a subtle way...

Edited by PhD-Purgatory15
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On 9/10/2019 at 1:14 AM, crowceilidh said:

There's a kind of forward roundhouse he kept being asked to do which he did amazingly poorly almost every time and I find that odd in a bboy of his talents.  He could fake it (which I suspect is why he kept being given it), but somehow he couldn't get the necessary extension on the kick which caused him to have no loft at all.

He does land low to the ground or with a hand on the ground often which works when he's doing his bboy thing because he can go right into a move using his hands. But it does stand out in some of the other routines.

I love Bailey's personality and I'll be happy if he wins but I don't love that they put a bboy move in almost every dance he does, no matter the style. How often has Mariah stood over to the side so Bailey can do a special move? It's especially frustrating since they never give her a standout moment to match his. Mariah can do amazing leaps and turns but they rarely showcase her individual talent in the routines with Bailey.

Edited by Jsage
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1 hour ago, Jsage said:

I love Bailey's personality and I'll be happy if he wins but I don't love that they put a bboy move in almost every dance he does, no matter the style. How often has Mariah stood over to the side so Bailey can do a special move? It's especially frustrating since they never give her a standout moment to match his. Mariah can do amazing leaps and turns but they rarely showcase her individual talent in the routines with Bailey.

The reason why this doesn't bother me is that the show actually does this with a lot of choreography.  How many times do we see a ballroom routine with extra lifts, leaps, etc. that you would not see in a ballroom competition?  In fact, the contestants would be disqualified if they did lifts in certain ballroom types.  You can look at Monday's quickstep and see that it's not a pure QS.  They didn't just add non-QS moves but they broke hold.

I think it's just more noticeable with Bailey because he is doing B-Boy moves which a lot of other contestants can't do.  So they're not going to put those moves in routines.  OTOH, we've been conditioned to accept leaps/turns/tilts even when it's not appropriate.

I also think that this show gives jazz/contemporary dancers the advantage anyway.  There's always so many jazz/contemporary/Broadway routines every season.  We should have more different hip-hop or ballroom styles.  Even when we used to have more Standard ballroom, the choreographers sometimes made the waltz look like contemporary.

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As others have said, that was the best night of dancing all season. (Thanks for Bollywood and non-Latin ballroom!) I watched Gino and Bailey's "Girl from Ipanema" three times and, like Nigel, I look forward to seeing it again next week when I expect (or hope) it will be even better. My vote (if I ever voted, and I've watched this show since S2) would be for Gino, but I'd be fine with Bailey winning (it's clearly going to be one of them, no shame to M or S).

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1 hour ago, realdancemom said:

The reason why this doesn't bother me is that the show actually does this with a lot of choreography.  How many times do we see a ballroom routine with extra lifts, leaps, etc. that you would not see in a ballroom competition?  In fact, the contestants would be disqualified if they did lifts in certain ballroom types.  You can look at Monday's quickstep and see that it's not a pure QS.  They didn't just add non-QS moves but they broke hold.

I think it's just more noticeable with Bailey because he is doing B-Boy moves which a lot of other contestants can't do.  So they're not going to put those moves in routines.  OTOH, we've been conditioned to accept leaps/turns/tilts even when it's not appropriate.

I also think that this show gives jazz/contemporary dancers the advantage anyway.  There's always so many jazz/contemporary/Broadway routines every season.  We should have more different hip-hop or ballroom styles.  Even when we used to have more Standard ballroom, the choreographers sometimes made the waltz look like contemporary.

ITA - although on the surface, it may seem unfair that Bailey got b boy tricks added to some of his routines, the choreographers on this show tend to leave room to add things specifically to show off the dancers' strengths. It's been that way since the beginning (to be honest, I don't remember a lot about S1 but I definitely remember seeing it in S2).

And in comparison, usually quickstep jumps are more like skimming mini leaps, not the full on 180 degree split leaps that Mariah was doing, so it's not just Bailey who was getting special treatment.

I agree that the contemporary/jazz dancers usually benefit the most from the choreographers incorporating tricks that they're good at (leaps, turns, various flexibility poses), but I think it's just more noticeable when it's a b boy trick like some of the ones they've given Bailey this season.

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Thankfully, they refrained from doing much swirlycam this episode and the entire show benefited.

I thought Mariah and Bailey's jazz this week was sexier than last week's.

Sophie got some hairography tonight and acquitted it well.

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I swear I thought Marko dropped Sophie on her face in the very first trick and that’s why she was crying but was covering it up.  She was the most endearing she has ever been when talking about her friendship with Mariah.

I’ve never heard the crowd chanting someone’s name before but yeah, Bailey is totally winning this.  And I will be sad because he is not Mariah.

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10 hours ago, realdancemom said:

The reason why this doesn't bother me is that the show actually does this with a lot of choreography.  How many times do we see a ballroom routine with extra lifts, leaps, etc. that you would not see in a ballroom competition?  In fact, the contestants would be disqualified if they did lifts in certain ballroom types.  You can look at Monday's quickstep and see that it's not a pure QS.  They didn't just add non-QS moves but they broke hold.

I agree with a lot of what you wrote but I also think they were trying to spice the ballroom routines up.  Sytycd audience is cool toward ballroom.  They warm up a bit with the flash.  Even if the ballroom is done well, the votes are for the contemporary or hip hop.  I think they try to give the contestants a fighting chance when they get ballroom by adding the flash.

i think, like you said, that we accept turns/leaps in any style.  They can usually flow into another move, if choreographed properly.  Bboy moves are “look at what I can do” moves.  There is no interaction with the partner or group.  They just wait for them to finish and pick back up.  So it looks like the moves only benefit the bboy, unless hip hop of course.  Then they could set up a battle-type sequence.

i really don’t have a problem with either.  Even if a bboy is cross trained, he’s not going to be as versatile.  He’s spent countless hours perfecting his craft. So give the bboy a break.  Besides, the audience love bboy moves.

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11 hours ago, AllAboutMBTV said:

I watched Gino and Bailey's "Girl from Ipanema" three times and, like Nigel, I look forward to seeing it again next week when I expect (or hope) it will be even better.

Hopefully Bailey will nail the back flip next week. I honestly don't think Gino could possibly improve on any part of the performance he gave the first time. Just love that kid.

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9 hours ago, mojoween said:

I swear I thought Marko dropped Sophie on her face in the very first trick and that’s why she was crying but was covering it up. 

I watched AfterBuzz TV after show and Teig said she questioned Marco and Sophie about that. She was told that it appeared that Sophie hit her face on the floor but that most certainly did not happen. Sophie's hair made it look that way but it did not happen.

So.......no Sophie's were injured in the performance of the the dance.

9 minutes ago, luvthepros said:

///

Edited by luvthepros
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10 minutes ago, luvthepros said:

Hopefully Bailey will nail the back flip next week. I honestly don't think Gino could possibly improve on any part of the performance he gave the first time. He was sublime in that piece. Just love that kid.

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50 minutes ago, displayname said:

I do not understand what this means.

I meant a bboy may have been cross trained in his early years (someone had stated Bailey was cross trained).  But if he’s a great bboy, his recent practices would’ve been devoted to the bboy scene.  So his other dance skills are not going to be on point which will make him less versatile than the studio trained contemporary/jazz dancers.  

Thats just my opinion  Feel free to disagree.

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28 minutes ago, crossover said:

I meant a bboy may have been cross trained in his early years (someone had stated Bailey was cross trained).  But if he’s a great bboy, his recent practices would’ve been devoted to the bboy scene.  So his other dance skills are not going to be on point which will make him less versatile than the studio trained contemporary/jazz dancers.  

Thats just my opinion  Feel free to disagree.

I guess I get what you're saying to an extent. I don't know what "other dance skills" mean though. A great BBoy... would be able to dance and carry off the music, which are pretty important skills, that a lot of studio kids don't possess for me. The show emphasises classical western dance technique, which they'll have more comfort with (greatness of technique is very rare with studio kids), but that's about it. Guess it depends on what "versatility" means though, because I do agree someone who focuses less on ballet-based dances will have less proficiency in it, but that's not all the kind of dancing that exists in the world, and technique isn't all there is to dancing.

Edited by displayname
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4 hours ago, displayname said:

 but that's not all the kind of dancing that exists in the world, and technique isn't all there is to dancing.

I was just thinking of versatility as it relates to the show and the types of styles they promote.  Not the world.  If bboy dances were part of the show's preferred dance style, he would be very versatile.  So the dance skills I was referring to are the ones that are used most on the show.

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8 hours ago, crossover said:

I agree with a lot of what you wrote but I also think they were trying to spice the ballroom routines up.  Sytycd audience is cool toward ballroom.  They warm up a bit with the flash.  Even if the ballroom is done well, the votes are for the contemporary or hip hop.  I think they try to give the contestants a fighting chance when they get ballroom by adding the flash.

i think, like you said, that we accept turns/leaps in any style.  They can usually flow into another move, if choreographed properly.  Bboy moves are “look at what I can do” moves.  There is no interaction with the partner or group.  They just wait for them to finish and pick back up.  So it looks like the moves only benefit the bboy, unless hip hop of course.  Then they could set up a battle-type sequence.

Yes, I agree that the general SYTYCD audience don't really vote for ballroom dances or the dancers themselves.  This especially applies to the ballroom females like Magda last season.  So I know why the choreographers put flashy moves.  They are trying to help the contestants.  For example, the second half of Monday's Quickstep was mostly non-QS moves.  I was just making the point that the choreographers didn't just help Bailey this season.

I also see what you mean by turns/leaps can easily flow with the choreography while a partner has to wait while Bailey is doing a B-Boy move.  However as for the waiting comment, you see that in contemporary/jazz/Broadway dances too.  For example, Sophie did a lot of waiting around while Gino was doing extra technical moves in their Broadway piece.  I think it mostly comes down to the choreographer and if the partners can do the moves.  And for the females, if they can do the moves in heels.  

5 hours ago, displayname said:

I guess I get what you're saying to an extent. I don't know what "other dance skills" mean though. A great BBoy... would be able to dance and carry off the music, which are pretty important skills, that a lot of studio kids don't possess for me. The show emphasises classical western dance technique, which they'll have more comfort with (greatness of technique is very rare with studio kids), but that's about it. Guess it depends on what "versatility" means though, because I do agree someone who focuses less on ballet-based dances will have less proficiency in it, but that's not all the kind of dancing that exists in the world, and technique isn't all there is to dancing.

1 hour ago, crossover said:

I was just thinking of versatility as it relates to the show and the types of styles they promote.  Not the world.  If bboy dances were part of the show's preferred dance style, he would be very versatile.  So the dance skills I was referring to are the ones that are used most on the show.

And both of you bring up the point that I was also going to make and what I was alluding to in my previous post.  When Nigel says that somebody has the best technique on a particular season, he says it to a contemporary or ballet person.  So this season, he is saying it to Gino.  Even when somebody like Iveta comes along, he will say that she's great at ballroom but won't say she has the best technique overall.  So that makes fans think that the contemporary/ballet person is the best dancer even if they're not good at other styles.  I think they were a little more fair in the earlier seasons.  One example is Travis.  During his season, they mentioned that ballroom was his kryptonite.  This season, they might say that the steps are not quite there but they kind of gloss over it.  Then you get somebody like Mary who should know better who says that Sophie dances like a professional ballroom dancer.  That's insulting to those that have been working on ballroom technique for years.  And no, she did not dance like a professional. 

Displayname, I also agree with you that a lot of the hip-hop dancers have the best musicality.  They are also usually the best performers.  And I mentioned in one of the previous weeks, I would rather have somebody that has decent technique but a great performer over somebody that has exceptional technique but dances stone faced.  I also appreciate when a hip hop dancer/B-Boy/animator is exceptional in their style.  They usually have the best solos.   

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1 hour ago, crossover said:

I was just thinking of versatility as it relates to the show and the types of styles they promote.  Not the world.  If bboy dances were part of the show's preferred dance style, he would be very versatile.  So the dance skills I was referring to are the ones that are used most on the show.

But that's not quite what I mean though... just even looking at great BBoys on the show (like Legacy) vs some meh contemporary dancer (like Madison this season, or someone like Moises or Derek from season 12), you notice just basic sensitivity to music, better projection, more immersion and soul, better use of arms and full-body movement to reflect the music... Just better basic dancing regardless of what technique they're using. Therefore, I find this definition of dance versatility, where we only look at how someone gets the technique down because of where their basic training occurred, and disregard what makes a dancer a dancer (ie. ARTISTRY) to be strange.

So even within the definition of the show, if we don't limit dance to technique, I'd say a great BBoy is more versatile than some meh contemporary dancer. It's kind of like, if you watch figure skating, everyone's raving about how Nathan Chen is a phenomenal skater because he did ballet, but I'm going "he's a poor dancer with little to no musicality or artistry", and doesn't measure up to any of his competitors on performance quality -- although they DIDN'T do ballet to his extent, they bring the soul better than he does. Even more relevant, I actually don't think Bailey is an amazing BBoy, or even an amazing basic hip hop dancer (watch how Comfort blows him away on just the basic bouncing and popping in their routine together), but he's a far better performer than Gino, and then he's still a better hip-hopper (Gino didn't have any technique at all next to Comfort) AND he's trained (quite recently actually since he's supposedly in a reputed performing arts school) in balletic movement. This show, and a lot of its audience, are too caught up on the superficial, and it's irksome.

17 minutes ago, realdancemom said:

Even when somebody like Iveta comes along, he will say that she's great at ballroom but won't say she has the best technique overall. 

Iveta was, absolutely, beyond a shadow of doubt, the best technician on the show when she participated. She's got her own dance studio in Manhattan to my knowledge. I also remember Evan Kasprzak never got praised got praised for his outstanding jazz technique, with the judges focusing on his face and height for whatever reason. The judges also have this weird bias towards young contemporary dancers for some reason, because it was actually Melanie in season 8, and I believe Kayla in season 5 who were hailed as the best, even though those seasons still had Ashley Rich (who went to Alvin Ailey IIRC), and Caitlyn Kinney (and again, Evan) respectively who were better (season 5 also had Jeanine who had a lot more body control than Kayla to me, even if not the sheer physical ability, but she was also just 18 like Kayla). It depends entirely on whom they want to win, though, because in season 6 Jakob was being hailed as a prodigy, when Ellenore (who was of the same age) had much better technique and phenomenally better artistry.

26 minutes ago, realdancemom said:

One example is Travis.  During his season, they mentioned that ballroom was his kryptonite. 

He was also hailed as an amazing technician, when I found him to be entirely ordinary, and his solos were competition-y.

29 minutes ago, realdancemom said:

So this season, he is saying it to Gino. 

And to me, this is so wrong. Gino might be the best contemporary technician on the show this season, but I've found him nothing special at all on that regard compared to some of the all-time great contemporary dancers who've been on this show. His body movement can be very sloppy, he is often over-eager and immature in carrying out a choreographic passage (see what he does in his jazz with Sophie), and I've not found him particularly outstanding on any regard of technique. I wasn't the biggest fan of Ricky Ubeda beyond his solos in his season, and found that he wasn't the best in translating his basics to a hard hitting jazz (he was blown away by a more experienced dancer like Lauren Froderman that season), but in his jazz with Jessica he shows better understanding of music and soul than Gino ever did during this entire show. His aesthetics are quite lacking.

36 minutes ago, realdancemom said:

Displayname, I also agree with you that a lot of the hip-hop dancers have the best musicality.  They are also usually the best performers.  And I mentioned in one of the previous weeks, I would rather have somebody that has decent technique but a great performer over somebody that has exceptional technique but dances stone faced.  I also appreciate when a hip hop dancer/B-Boy/animator is exceptional in their style.  They usually have the best solos.   

Yes, usually, the best performers and most musical dancers of this show have been of the hip-hop genre. Not always -- we had Billy Bell in season 7 with the best musicality, and Ellenore in season 6 who was far and away the best artist for me, but usually yes. The best soloists, imo, tend to be BBoys and hip-hoppers because the genre itself is based off playing to the crowd and showing your heart (this might not seem the best way to describe it -- but here's a thread on a different website where someone makes the point for me). Contemporary technicians usually stand out when they do very creative solos though (like Jeanine, and the mentioned Ellenore and Billy, and there are of course people like Danny) -- but the mediocre contemporary soloists are the ones I'd describe as relying on flash.

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All four kids are terrific.  No matter who wins, their futures are secured.  I suspect that Bailey will end up dancing with some of the top crews in the country.  Gino, Sophie and Mariah will be in very heavy demand by choreographers. What will be interesting will be to see if any of them follow in the footsteps of so many SYTYCD alumni who have gone on to solid careers on Broadway. With some additional seasoning and training all three appear to have the chops to do it.

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2 hours ago, displayname said:

But that's not quite what I mean though... just even looking at great BBoys on the show (like Legacy) vs some meh contemporary dancer (like Madison this season, or someone like Moises or Derek from season 12), you notice just basic sensitivity to music, better projection, more immersion and soul, better use of arms and full-body movement to reflect the music... Just better basic dancing regardless of what technique they're using. Therefore, I find this definition of dance versatility, where we only look at how someone gets the technique down because of where their basic training occurred, and disregard what makes a dancer a dancer (ie. ARTISTRY) to be strange.

He was also hailed as an amazing technician, when I found him to be entirely ordinary, and his solos were competition-y.

Yes, usually, the best performers and most musical dancers of this show have been of the hip-hop genre. Not always -- we had Billy Bell in season 7 with the best musicality, and Ellenore in season 6 who was far and away the best artist for me, but usually yes. The best soloists, imo, tend to be BBoys and hip-hoppers because the genre itself is based off playing to the crowd and showing your heart (this might not seem the best way to describe it -- but here's a thread on a different website where someone makes the point for me). Contemporary technicians usually stand out when they do very creative solos though (like Jeanine, and the mentioned Ellenore and Billy, and there are of course people like Danny) -- but the mediocre contemporary soloists are the ones I'd describe as relying on flash.

LOL!!  On a previous week thread, I pointed out how Madison does not have musicality.  She was also always hard hitting.  There were no light and shade or dynamics.

Yup, Travis was nowhere near as good as his brother, Danny.  And now that I think about it, it might have been Travis himself that said that his weakness was ballroom.  It wasn't Nigel and company that pointed it out.  I think Nigel even said that Travis was a good technician.  I'm not sure if he praised Benji for his swing technique.

Wanted to clarify that even though I think the really good hip-hop people have good musicality and are good performers, I didn't mean that they were always the best ones during their season.  I loved Billy Bell and Ellenore.  But I also really love ballet dancers like Danny, Alex, Eliana, and Jim for their technique and solos.  And even though I liked Ellenore, I did like Jakob too. but mostly his duets.  I remember liking Mark's quirkiness or Cole's fusion during their solos.  I also remember Jeanine's solos and duets.  I was mostly just mentioning hip-hop dancers because sometimes they don't get enough respect.  Thank you for the link.  I read the first post and that was basically what I was trying to say in a lot of my posts on this thread.   Will read the rest of it later.  

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