S09.E13: She Loves Me, She Loves Me Not

[Kiss my mutt]

I just keep hearing the theme song “That’s so Raven” that Raven Symone was in on Nick tv when I hear his name. 

[Blissfool]

On 9/5/2019 at 8:39 PM, configdotsys said:

What to say about Amber? She was clearly devastated after Raven told her about Matt. I think she is a fool, but watching her made me feel bad that she is so desperate that her deep grief is because she won't be able to keep this loser. Raven is a good friend that was very upset for her. I wonder why those two have not gotten together. Raven tried out to be on the show and was almost selected so he's available and obviously cares very deeply 

I thought for sure Amber and Raven were gonna be matched up in the casting episode.

[Lindz]

2 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

I totally disagree - there is no reason men and women can’t have friends if the opposite sex, whether they are in romantic relationships with other people or not. I have male friends; my husband has female friends. Nothing inappropriate about it. Why does there have to be?

To each their own. I wouldn't be okay with my partner giving my time to another woman. If there's a possibilty they could get together, NO WAY! What do they need other women for if they have partner? Acquaintances are fine. Who has real friends anyway? 😂

[nutella fitzgerald]

1 hour ago, Kiss my mutt said:

I just keep hearing the theme song “That’s so Raven” that Raven Symone was in on Nick tv when I hear his name. 

Raven Symone probably first appeared on The Cosby Show around when MAFS Raven was born. Poor timing, Parents Raven!

[Hangin Out]

What a way to start a marriage.  She said he only does Caucasian sex, then he refers to her as lousy in bed.  It will never work as they are both nuts.  They didn’t even get to the hard part of marriage yet.

[KateHearts]

On 9/4/2019 at 8:55 PM, Ohwell said:

First Elizabeth, and now Deonna.  If I hear another person on this show say "between xxx and I," I'm going to scream. 

"I really enjoyed Keith and I's anniversary dinner."

[Ohwell]

2 minutes ago, KateHearts said:

"I really enjoyed Keith and I's anniversary dinner."

Yeah, I forgot about Iris.  

[Lindz]

Elizabeth said Jamie is so emotional!! 😂😂REALLY?!?! That's HILARIOUS coming from her. Other words describe them better. Definitely

[Lindz]

😒😒 Iris telling Keith she doesn't know he feels... then ASK until you understand!! It's not complicated!! You must not care that much if you don't ask & explain the importance of knowing that information. I understand he gives indirect answers, then hit him with follow-up or yes/no. There's ways to deal. 😂

[Lindz]

Are they not allowed to discuss their decision?? That's messed up, they should be able to. Didn't one past couple say they decided to stay married/divorce? So confusing. They're married, it's THEIR decision. Makes them seem already separated, giving separate answers.

[Lindz]

I just don't get it. They're MARRIED. That's the person they SHOULD tell their wants & needs. Yeah, if they're dating, they're scared the other person will decide not to meet their wants & needs, but that's not the case here. They MUST tell them. 😂😂 HOW do they expect to get what they want without telling the person?? DUH!!

[Crazy Bird Lady]

Just now, Lindz said:

I just don't get it. They're MARRIED. That's the person they SHOULD tell their wants & needs. Yeah, if they're dating, they're scared the other person will decide not to meet their wants & needs, but that's not the case here. They MUST tell them. 😂😂 HOW do they expect to get what they want without telling the person?? DUH!!

The whole point here is, they're married but they're not married. Their marriages are just part of a made-for-TV "experiment" that includes "marriage" as part of the experiment. 

They're legal marriages, but not real ones --at least, not until after Decision Day, when the TV cameras are finally removed from where they're living!

[Lindz]

Ehhhh. I hope Greg & Deonna stay together. I hope Amber pulls a Kate & goes for a divorce & Matt, FINALLY, tells truth in choosing divorce after saying a bunch of bs, as usual. I think the nice guy act ends & Keith says no & blindsides Iris. I hope Jamie &/or Elizabeth, FINALLY, uses some sense & says no.

[ShowFan]

On 9/7/2019 at 11:12 PM, Jassie99 said:

One thing I didn't like is her friend who obviously cares for her waited to tell her on camera

Doubt that. The scene seemed re-enacted. Looks like he told her already before and they made them do it in camera. It’s classic for that show. They wouldn’t miss such an opportunity for the world!

19 hours ago, Lindz said:

I wouldn't be okay with my partner giving my time to another woman. If there's a possibilty they could get together, NO WAY! What do they need other women for if they have partner? Acquaintances are fine. Who has real friends anyway? 😂

Yep...only over my dead body

[Lindz]

3 minutes of Amber crying?? SERIOUSLY?! Like, ONE minute is enough. Didn't see any evidence either, but eh. He's still a bs liar. Her initial response was bizarre. She's too desperate. Maybe she's also too caught up in the hype of being matched and scared of failure. She seemed so more woke & over his lies in the previous episode. It doesn't make sense. They all seemed to be wearing something different after they separated.

Edited September 9, 2019 by Lindz

[Lindz]

Gosh! Jamie complains about sex to EVERYONE!! Including strangers he just met!! #SUPERCREEP! His soulmate is a sex doll!! 😂😂 Elizabeth's friend is funny, "Why would she want to have sex with you?" #IDIE

Oh Elizabeth. She's lost her fight. It's better than her old responses, but she says nothing, that's still poor communication. He just says whatever he wants & it's all about him.

But ehhhh. That "I'm a hugger" mess.... NAH. I'm NOT!! Back up off me!! #PERSONALSPACE #IDONTKNOWYOULIKETHAT

[Hangin Out]

18 hours ago, KateHearts said:

"I really enjoyed Keith and I's anniversary dinner."

Answering to Kate Hearts screaming, if I hear Deonna’s Donald Duck voice saying “look at you” to Gregg for something good he did, I will scream also.

[sasha206]

On 9/7/2019 at 4:44 PM, Lindz said:

LOL!! It's NOT about sex!! Coasting & confusing his spouse til Decision Day is NOT gentlemanly! My point is he should've been upfront with her & exited the experiment when he decided he wanted to stop being married to her. Like awful Matt!

This is the show though.  I think they are coached to come off as confused and unsure what they are going to do so we all wonder what they are going to do.  If they all said, "It's over" or "I choose you" why would we watch the finale?

[Lindz]

56 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

This is the show though.  I think they are coached to come off as confused and unsure what they are going to do so we all wonder what they are going to do.  If they all said, "It's over" or "I choose you" why would we watch the finale?

We don't want to see abuse, disrespect, dysfunction, or fake participation. No relationship is perfect. We want to see them overcoming challenges and being real, building a relationship. That's all. 😂😂

[Ilovepie]

20 hours ago, KateHearts said:

"I really enjoyed Keith and I's anniversary dinner."

I generally avoid these grammar complaints, and at the risk of sounding like an uneducated hick, what the heck is the correct thing to say here? "I really enjoyed the dinner I shared with Keith." Or, "I  really enjoyed my and Keith's dinner." Or, I enjoyed our dinner." What is it???? I think #1 sounds best, but who the hell talks like that? Is number two grammatically correct? Because it sounds just as awkward (to me anyway) as "I really enjoyed Keith and I's dinner."  One of the grammar peeps please enlighten me (and Iris!) how this should be worded.......

PS - I'm not an uneducated hick, I just don't care about grammar enough to worry about how some people on basic cable speak, but this is bugging me.........

[Hangin Out]

26 minutes ago, Lindz said:

We don't want to see abuse, disrespect, dysfunction, or fake participation. No relationship is perfect. We want to see them overcoming challenges and being real, building a relationship. That's all. 😂😂

Jamie was too much with the sex thing, Elizabeth was too much with the talking, screaming, tossing furniture, Iris talked too much and was too full of herself, Keith was perfect and quiet and mannerly, Deonna still isn’t over whatever ten yrs ago, Gregg is too nice and patient,  Matt is a dope, Amber is a doormat.  That about covers it for me IMO.  

[Kareem]

2 hours ago, Silver Bells said:

Answering to Kate Hearts screaming, if I hear Deonna’s Donald Duck voice saying “look at you” to Gregg for something good he did, I will scream also.

Ugh.  And talking in third person.  “Hopefully he’s had time to get to know the real Iris.”  “What did you learn about Deonna?”.  “The story of Elizabeth Bice”.  Who do they think they are, Deion Sanders?  They sound like self-centered nitwits.  Then again...

[Hangin Out]

1 hour ago, Ilovepie said:

I generally avoid these grammar complaints, and at the risk of sounding like an uneducated hick, what the heck is the correct thing to say here? "I really enjoyed the dinner I shared with Keith." Or, "I  really enjoyed my and Keith's dinner." Or, I enjoyed our dinner." What is it???? I think #1 sounds best, but who the hell talks like that? Is number two grammatically correct? Because it sounds just as awkward (to me anyway) as "I really enjoyed Keith and I's dinner."  One of the grammar peeps please enlighten me (and Iris!) how this should be worded.......

PS - I'm not an uneducated hick, I just don't care about grammar enough to worry about how some people on basic cable speak, but this is bugging me.........

Whenever I don’t get which grammar word is correct, I just say to myself, I probably was absent from school the day they taught that.  That goes for math too.  Lol.

[Auntie]

1 hour ago, Ilovepie said:

21 hours ago, KateHearts said:

"I really enjoyed Keith and I's anniversary dinner."

I generally avoid these grammar complaints, and at the risk of sounding like an uneducated hick, what the heck is the correct thing to say here? "I really enjoyed the dinner I shared with Keith." Or, "I  really enjoyed my and Keith's dinner." Or, I enjoyed our dinner." What is it???? I think #1 sounds best, but who the hell talks like that? Is number two grammatically correct? Because it sounds just as awkward (to me anyway) as "I really enjoyed Keith and I's dinner."  One of the grammar peeps please enlighten me (and Iris!) how this should be worded.......

PS - I'm not an uneducated hick, I just don't care about grammar enough to worry about how some people on basic cable speak, but this is bugging me.........

In the anniversary dinner comment, all the dipshit had to say was "I really enjoyed our anniversary dinner."  It wasn't Keith's anniversary alone, it wasn't her anniversary dinner alone, it was their anniversary dinner together.

As for "I" and "me" - they NEVER EVER come first in the sentence/statement/question. For example: "Me and my son went to the fair this weekend."   NONONONO.  Now, as to how to determine if you use "I" or "me", break it into two sentences. Still using the "Me and my son went to the fair this weekend." this can be broken down into two sentences - "Me went to the fair this weekend." and "My son went to the fair this weekend."  Hopefully it is PAINFULLY OBVIOUS that "Me went to the fair...." is not correct. So you know to use "I" in this. And since "I" and "Me" never come first in a combination, the correct way to phrase the sentence is "My son and I went to the fair this weekend."

Another example:  "Pastor Cal spewed bullshit to I and my husband."  NONONONO.  Break it down into two sentences:  "Pastor Cal spewed bullshit to I."  and "Pastor Cal spewed bullshit to my husband."  It's a big NO on the "I", so rephrase the sentence as "Pastor Cal spewed bullshit to my husband and me." This is a classic example of when you would use "me" instead of "I"

[topanga]

On 9/7/2019 at 11:12 PM, Jassie99 said:

I think this episode was the first time outside of wedding day I saw them kiss. I don't recall any affection. No handholding, hands on lap, cuddling, nothing.  Its like if they do stay together I expect them to high five each other on decision day.

No, they used to be affectionate with one another. They held hands when walking, and when they were sitting down, their arms were around one another or Iris would drape her legs across Keith’s lap—or he would put his head in her lap. And she was always playing in his hair. So yeah, they used to be affectionate. But I wish they’d had more open, real conversations so they’d understand one another better. 

2 hours ago, Lindz said:

We don't want to see abuse, disrespect, dysfunction, or fake participation. No relationship is perfect. We want to see them overcoming challenges and being real, building a relationship. That's all. 😂😂

This. I don’t need to see drama or scandal to make a season entertaining.  But these couples have been doing the same things and having the same conversations for weeks now. I don’t see much individual growth or see the couples growing closer. I’d say Greg and Deonna are possibly the exception, but even after eight weeks, Greg acts like he’s walking on eggshells around her. And Deonna doles her out kindness and affection in tiny spurts like she’s training a dog. 

[KateHearts]

3 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

I generally avoid these grammar complaints, and at the risk of sounding like an uneducated hick, what the heck is the correct thing to say here? "I really enjoyed the dinner I shared with Keith." Or, "I  really enjoyed my and Keith's dinner." Or, I enjoyed our dinner." What is it???? I think #1 sounds best, but who the hell talks like that? Is number two grammatically correct? Because it sounds just as awkward (to me anyway) as "I really enjoyed Keith and I's dinner."  One of the grammar peeps please enlighten me (and Iris!) how this should be worded.......

because I's isn't really a word, and if you took the other person out of the picture you would say "I enjoyed MY anniversary," you would check it that way.  "I enjoyed Keith's and my anniversary." (the other person always comes first). Or, to make it easier, "I enjoyed our anniversary dinner."  Just like you wouldn't say "me and Keith went to..."- because if you take the other person out, you wouldn't say "me went to," you would say "I went to;" hence- "Keith and I went to..."

[Elizzikra]

On 9/8/2019 at 5:43 PM, Lindz said:

To each their own. I wouldn't be okay with my partner giving my time to another woman. If there's a possibilty they could get together, NO WAY! What do they need other women for if they have partner? Acquaintances are fine. Who has real friends anyway? 😂

You mean like how Joe Biden won’t ever be alone with any woman other than his wife, even a staffer, for lunch, because it’s somehow “disrespectful” to his wife??? Got it.

Agree to disagree. I say I either trust my partner or I don’t. If he’s going to cheat, he can do it with a female friend, a colleague, a woman he meets on the subway, a prostitute, or someone he meets in line at Starbucks. My forbidding female friends isn’t going to stop him. A romantic partner doesn’t necessarily fulfill every single social need any person has. He has a serious hobby that I don’t share and some of his female friends do. They want to work on it together - i have no problem with that. I also don’t think his time is also not “my time” - I don’t own him. I want him to spend time with me because he wants to spend it with me; not because I don’t trust him to spend it with a female friend without having sex with her.

[Hangin Out]

1 hour ago, topanga said:

No, they used to be affectionate with one another. They held hands when walking, and when they were sitting down, their arms were around one another or Iris would drape her legs across Keith’s lap—or he would put his head in her lap. And she was always playing in his hair. So yeah, they used to be affectionate. But I wish they’d had more open, real conversations so they’d understand one another better. 

This. I don’t need to see drama or scandal to make a season entertaining.  But these couples have been doing the same things and having the same conversations for weeks now. I don’t see much individual growth or see the couples growing closer. I’d say Greg and Deonna are possibly the exception, but even after eight weeks, Greg acts like he’s walking on eggshells around her. And Deonna doles her out kindness and affection in tiny spurts like she’s training a dog. 

“Look at you” .. “you did good”. .. now you get two biscuits instead of one”.  Good dog, I mean Gregg.

[gonecrackers]

1 minute ago, Silver Bells said:

“Look at you” .. “you did good”. .. now you get two biscuits instead of one”.  Good dog, I mean Gregg.

I like Deonna & Greg together & want them to work out, but she does need to stop speaking to him like he's a child.

[MajorNelson]

4 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

On 9/8/2019 at 4:16 PM, KateHearts said:

"I really enjoyed Keith and I's anniversary dinner."

I generally avoid these grammar complaints, and at the risk of sounding like an uneducated hick, what the heck is the correct thing to say here?

Keeping the same sentence format it would be:

"I really enjoyed Keith's and my anniversary dinner."

[MajorNelson]

53 minutes ago, Elizzikra said:

You mean like how Joe Biden won’t ever be alone with any woman other than his wife, even a staffer, for lunch, because it’s somehow “disrespectful” to his wife??? Got it.

That would be VP Mike Pence.  Former VP Biden is rather infamous in an otherwise fashion.

[Jeanne222]

5 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

I generally avoid these grammar complaints, and at the risk of sounding like an uneducated hick, what the heck is the correct thing to say here? "I really enjoyed the dinner I shared with Keith." Or, "I  really enjoyed my and Keith's dinner." Or, I enjoyed our dinner." What is it???? I think #1 sounds best, but who the hell talks like that? Is number two grammatically correct? Because it sounds just as awkward (to me anyway) as "I really enjoyed Keith and I's dinner."  One of the grammar peeps please enlighten me (and Iris!) how this should be worded.......

PS - I'm not an uneducated hick, I just don't care about grammar enough to worry about how some people on basic cable speak, but this is bugging me.........

Keith and I enjoyed our dinner last evening should do it!!!

[sasha206]

6 hours ago, Lindz said:

We don't want to see abuse, disrespect, dysfunction, or fake participation. No relationship is perfect. We want to see them overcoming challenges and being real, building a relationship. That's all. 😂😂

Being real and building a relationship sure (although I'm not sure how being real ever happens on a reality show where you marry a stranger).  But it is a show and to keep audiences tuned in, I'm quite sure the participants are coached that they are to act confused before the finale even if they know damn well what their answer will be.  Otherwise, not much of a finale.

[Elizzikra]

2 hours ago, MajorNelson said:

That would be VP Mike Pence.  Former VP Biden is rather infamous in an otherwise fashion.

Oh right! And I suspect that neither would be too pleased to be confused for the other.

[Lindz]

1 hour ago, sasha206 said:

participants are coached that they are to act confused

They should be confused. A lot is unknown about their spouse & their future together. It's understandable.

[Lindz]

4 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

You mean like how Joe Biden won’t ever be alone with any woman other than his wife, even a staffer, for lunch, because it’s somehow “disrespectful” to his wife??? Got it.

Agree to disagree. I say I either trust my partner or I don’t. If he’s going to cheat, he can do it with a female friend, a colleague, a woman he meets on the subway, a prostitute, or someone he meets in line at Starbucks. My forbidding female friends isn’t going to stop him. A romantic partner doesn’t necessarily fulfill every single social need any person has. He has a serious hobby that I don’t share and some of his female friends do. They want to work on it together - i have no problem with that. I also don’t think his time is also not “my time” - I don’t own him. I want him to spend time with me because he wants to spend it with me; not because I don’t trust him to spend it with a female friend without having sex with her.

HAHAHAHAHA!! Nah. But, now that you mention it... Him being alone with ANY number of women in a non-professional manner sounds cool. 😉

People are opportunists, that's just how they are. Why can't they get their other needs met by their GUY friends? 😂 I think if there's an issue or something lacking, they'd turn to that female friend that's meeting those other needs & see if they can meet more needs that partner meets. 😂 Everyone defines respectful behavior & boundaries in their relationships. Whatever works for the couple. I'm happy for successful couples. I think any free time my guy has that he doesn't want to spend alone should be offered to me first, for now. Ha. "My time" meant time we're spending together. 😂

[Yeah No]

On 9/5/2019 at 11:24 PM, Desert Rat said:

From personal experience, I think PC's advice was spot on. I've been married over 30 years. We are best friends and I think we have a great marriage. Are we happy? Yes, a lot. Have we been miserable in our marriage? Yes also.  at times very unhappy. There have been times when I thought marrying my husband was the worst decision of my life.  There are times I thought it was the best. Those are all emotions.  I have a good, long marriage of trust and love because I fought through the negative emotions and made the conscious decision to stay committed to my husband and our marriage even when I couldn't stand him. I knew that my marriage was more important than my temporary emotions. PC has said love is not an emotion, it is a decision. He is right. If your marriage is based on the emotion of love, it will fail because the emotion cannot be sustained over years and decades, over the stresses of life. However, you can have a long meaningful relationship, if you make the decision each day to love your partner through it all.   

That being said, I do not think Amber and Matt should be married. Matt is not committed to the marriage. It takes two. Also, Amber does not love Matt in any sense of the word.  She loves the idea of Matt, not the man. She wants a marriage for the sake of being married but has no clue as to what a successful marriage looks like.  I think her mother abandoning her left her very damaged.  

I've been married 39 years and I agree with you to some degree, but it was the context of the conversation that made what Pastor Cal said completely misplaced.  You don't say that to a couple where one partner is being treated like crap by the other and completely miserable for good reasons.  You address that issue, not make the problem in the relationship about focusing too much on fleeting emotions over rational commitment.  And that's just the thing - there has to be some kind of commitment there between the couple first, before PC's advice makes any sense whatsoever.  If this couple were already married for years I'd say his advice was spot on, because there is a foundation of commitment to work from.  The problem with Matt is he can't even GET to a basic commitment with Amber for his own messed up reasons (which may actually include a valid response to Amber being needy and desperate), and until he addresses and resolves those reasons advice like this will not help this couple whatsoever and is irresponsible to be giving in the first place. 

Edited September 10, 2019 by Yeah No

[Yeah No]

On 9/6/2019 at 3:23 PM, Lindz said:

I can't believe everyone didn't choke on his BS!! How can he NOT be happy?? He does WHATEVER the hell he wants without ANY care & consideration for his wife. SELFISH BASTARD!! What? He doesn't know if he's happy during the 5 minutes he spends with her?? GTFOH!! NOBODY CARES what bs he has to say, he's TRASH!!

Matt doesn't even know what motivates him but I'll bet that the selfish way he is acting is NOT making him happy.  That's not what he really wants.  He probably wants a normal relationship like anyone else but has too many issues of his own to be ready for one, plus Amber is actually making him worse by acting so needy and desperate.  I'm NOT defending him AT ALL, by the way, because he is a major asshole, but her behavior is enough to send any guy in the opposite direction.  If you're insecure in a relationship there are much better ways of handling it that don't make the person want to run away from you even MORE!  Both of them need major therapy, IMO, before they are ready for ANYONE.  I don't even think if they had found Amber her version of Bobby she would have been ready for marriage and all would have been wonderful for her.  She has too many issues and would be bound to self-sabotage it somehow.

[Yeah No]

On 9/6/2019 at 3:44 PM, RaeSpellman said:

It would be interesting to know of the story about why Amber's mom left, how much contact they had after the mother started a new family, and what contact Amber has with the new family. On God Friended Me Cara's mother also left and had another child. It wasn't as simple as her mother abandoning her and starting over though.

I thought it was common knowledge that Amber's mother left because she came out as gay and got involved in a new relationship, which lends a different and more complicated dimension to the situation than her just leaving and starting a new family.  I also watch "God Friended Me" so I know about that situation not being so simple, yet by comparison I'd say this situation is a little more understandable.

[Yeah No]

On 9/6/2019 at 4:18 PM, kerrieway said:

Here's the tea...Everyone keeps saying Raven is in the friendzone and I agree. Straight men and women can't be friends after puberty unless one or both parties are deeply unattracted to one another. Besides, men rarely befriend women on an individual basis if they dont find them physically attractive on some level to begin with. 

If Amber was the one attracted to Raven and he didnt feel the same she would be so unbearable he'd have to disappear, however they consider each other "best friends." I'm sorry what? "Best friends" not good friend or friends since kindergarten or pals...yeah he wants her.

Also as MAFsFan showed on Instagram, Raven was a MAFs finalist, he and a blond girl were almost the fourth couple. So we have a straight ready to be married man who found out his longtime crush and "best friend" would rather flip a coin and marry a stranger than be with him so he pretends not to care by following...erh I mean going with her to the MAFs interviews and trying out himself. All the while I suspect Raven was hoping either that Amber didnt get picked or that he could at least get a placeholder wife that would make him forget about his long unrequited love for Amber.

It would've been interesting if Raven had been picked instead of Amber or alongside her. I have a feeling that Raven's been single and pining for her for a long time and so Amber's never known what it's like not to be the center of his world. I think Amber's jealousy would have been ignited for the first time ever and she might have had to ask herself if she could care for Raven romantically or realized that she does like him. Oh let's not forget Raven's poor MAF wife who would've picked up on the true nature of his bestie relationship. This would've been better TV than Iris and Keith. 

I SO agree with you down to every word here and that was my exact take on this situation, having been there and done that in my time with a guy that even declared the same major as me in college just because he was pining for me, and then did the personal dating ads in the newspaper with me because he wanted to "meet" someone (which he did not until a long time later).  Then he became my "best friend" to the point of being an usher at my eventual wedding to another guy.....Oh yeah, he would have TOTALLY done all of this that Raven has done even down to the deadpan expressions so as not to let on to the world that he still holds the torch for her to such a desperate degree.  He is so desperate himself that he probably doesn't even notice Amber's desperation.....Meanwhile Amber is one of those clueless people that either doesn't know that he still pines for her or knows it and takes advantage of his attention because she is so needy and desperate for it in general.  Thank you for posting this as I know it is an unpopular opinion.

[Yeah No]

On 9/6/2019 at 11:44 PM, watchingtvaddict said:

Keith should at least try! He was Married at First Sight. I feel like I don't know him. He hasn't opened up about anything this season. He is super bland.

At least with Will (the groom paired up with Jasmine from last season). We found out he wanted to rent out houses and volunteer as a basketball coach to underprivileged kids. He didn't try with Jasmine at all but he gave us some information to speculate on why they weren't a good match.

Keith just keeps on talking about how Iris is immature... he doesn't talk about his wants and desires and he is not making an effort to communicate to his wife about his wants and desires. It's all very one-sided where we are supposed to blame Iris for the failure of the marriage. But, I think this is all on Keith. Iris is at least trying to create some sort of bond. 

I was never a Will fan.  Something about the guy told me he was not up to a real, open and frank discussion of his feelings.  Of course Jasmine was no prize either.  Keith does not strike me as that kind of individual and I see him has having more on the ball with regard to a mature relationship.  He has talked to Iris about his concerns over her "emotional maturity" so we know he has been at least that open with her because she has reacted to it in talking heads.  So obviously something has been going on between them behind the scenes.   

I think the reason Keith seems bland is because he isn't really able to connect with Iris on the same level and so is much more reserved with her than he would be if he were really clicking with someone.  I am sure this was also the case with Will to some degree but I still don't think he had as much "relationship readiness" in him as Keith does.  He was never able to string a sentence together that showed half as much self or other awareness as Keith.  Keith seems like a very thoughtful, intelligent individual that wants to do the "right thing" but is in a strange and rough situation with a woman he's not really clicking with.  The fact that he is so aware of Iris' obvious lack of emotional maturity and can articulate it so well speaks volumes about HIS emotional maturity.

[Lindz]

12 hours ago, ShowFan said:

Yep...only over my dead body

Don't tell them that!! 😅

[gingerandcloves]

This is an extended preview of the Decision Day episode, featuring Greg and Deonna (first 10 minutes), then it goes into Couples Couch. 

Spoiler alert: Don't watch if you don't want to see Greg's decision.

[Hangin Out]

6 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I've been married 39 years and I agree with you to some degree, but it was the context of the conversation that made what Pastor Cal said completely misplaced.  You don't say that to a couple where one partner is being treated like crap by the other and completely miserable for good reasons.  You address that issue, not make the problem in the relationship about focusing too much on fleeting emotions over rational commitment.  And that's just the thing - there has to be some kind of commitment there between the couple first, before PC's advice makes any sense whatsoever.  If this couple were already married for years I'd say his advice was spot on, because there is a foundation of commitment to work from.  The problem with Matt is he can't even GET to a basic commitment with Amber for his own messed up reasons (which may actually include a valid response to Amber being needy and desperate), and until he addresses and resolves those reasons advice like this will not help this couple whatsoever and is irresponsible to be giving in the first place. 

I think you both are right in what you say.  I’m married over fifty years and have been thru it all.  Matt might have a girlfriend tucked away, loves being with friends more, and lastly, was in it for the MONEY.  By saying we’ve been thru it all, there were no affairs, just every day crap and frustrations about kids, personal space, blah, blah.  To this day, whenever we get in the car, it brings out the beast in us and we argue about everything you could imagine.  It’s in the car because we never wanted the kids to hear arguing.  They are all out of the house now, but we still argue in the car.  It’s our safe haven.  The only couple that I think might stay together is Gregg and Deonna.  The guy is extremely patient and understanding.  I never heard him raise his voice, or maybe he’s holding it in.  Deonna HAS to remove the stick out of her ass and then will be bearable.

[Lindz]

Now, I think Keith might've pulled a Luke & said a bunch of bs as an excuse. Instead of the real truth: sex is the starting point of his relationships, or close to it, or sexual compatibility is more important than anything else & he chose not to modify that for his WIFE. It's a shame. They could've been great. Which begs the question: the "experts" should have seen their issues and told them how to resolve them, right?? Maybe that's what those stupid games were for, which counted against her. Plus, that doesn't mean they couldn't try anything they thought of. I CAN'T STAND problem acceptors!! REALLY?? You're just gunna state the issue & THAT'S IT?? WTF?!! Use your brain! Try until you succeed! 😒 People have their process, areas of compatability they value most. I'm, obviously, most into connecting mentally, physical is LAST, but you figure it out WITH the person, if you like them enough. 😂

[Yeah No]

37 minutes ago, Lindz said:

Now, I think Keith might've pulled a Luke & said a bunch of bs as an excuse. Instead of the real truth: sex is the starting point of his relationships, or close to it, or sexual compatibility is more important than anything else & he chose not to modify that for his WIFE. It's a shame. They could've been great. Which begs the question: the "experts" should have seen their issues and told them how to resolve them, right?? Maybe that's what those stupid games were for, which counted against her. Plus, that doesn't mean they couldn't try anything they thought of. I CAN'T STAND problem acceptors!! REALLY?? You're just gunna state the issue & THAT'S IT?? WTF?!! Use your brain! Try until you succeed! 😒 People have their process, areas of compatability they value most. I'm, obviously, most into connecting mentally, physical is LAST, but you figure it out WITH the person, if you like them enough. 😂

I don't think sex has to be the starting point for Keith's relationships for him to be very hesitant to be Iris' first time.  The stakes are very high in this situation.  It's fully public, it's all-in or out, no in between, plus Iris has shown herself to have insanely immature and high expectations of someone that just met her.  Why on earth would most men want to walk into that minefield?  I think the key to what you say above is "if you like them enough".  What's to like about Iris?  She is so immature Keith can't even like her that much much less take on the role of her therapist in helping her through her obviously huge issues relating to her virginity and her lack of experience in relationships in general.  I said in another thread that I think Iris is not only a physical virgin but a relationship virgin as well.  I don't blame Keith for wanting someone that is closer in maturity to him in general and with regard to their ability to enter into a mature relationship.  It's no mark against him for seeing that they're too far apart on that score for him to want to try to help her through it.  I think he knows that her issues are so big that it most likely wouldn't work anyway.

I've been through a lot in relationships in my life.  I once worked with a 30 year old virgin that was in love with me when I was separated.  He was a lot like Iris in that he was emotionally immature and had unreasonably high standards with women in general.  He was so rigid and judgmental about a lot of things that there was no way I could see myself in a mature relationship with him.  I knew he was a disaster area and to stay away from him.  I am not in touch with him anymore but I know he is still single and unattached 18 years later and approaching 50.  I doubt he has ever had intercourse, or if he has his relationships have not worked out.  Iris needs to get therapy and grow up if she is ever to have a successful relationship.  Her issues are too big to expect most men to take on and succeed.  If she had a very nice easygoing personality maybe, but she is far too rigid and judgmental about a lot of things, which makes it all the harder.  She could also meet an older man that wants to take on a Pygmalion project, or a virgin from church that's more on her level that can grow up with her.  Otherwise, I think there's a good reason she's not finding love.

[Lindz]

Well. This season has slim pickings of quality spouses...

What spouse would you pick & why?

I like Greg being forthcoming about his thoughts & feelings, makes things so much easier. 😂

Edited September 10, 2019 by Lindz

[Crazy Bird Lady]

I like Greg because he is so obviously sincere, and his heart is truly into it. 

My second choice would be Keith. I think he's a good person who sometimes struggles with expressing himself, and he's definitely hung up on how to deal with the "taking her viriginity" thing (as well as the "my wife is hot and frigid at the same time, and I'm getting really frustrated! thing) --but I believe he's a good man with a good heart who really wanted a wife. 

My third choice would be Elizabeth, because I actually *like* spontaneous people. I know this is not a popular opinion, and I agree with everyone that Beth has a lot of "issues" --but  she's the most open, expressive person on the show. MAFS really "did her dirty" when they paired her with Jamie. They were a horrible match from the beginning.

[MAJAK]

18 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

You mean like how Joe Biden won’t ever be alone with any woman other than his wife, even a staffer, for lunch, because it’s somehow “disrespectful” to his wife??? Got it.

I honestly thought that VP Pence. 

[Hangin Out]

I can never imagine meeting my husband for the first time.  I would know in 2 seconds flat if I could go on with it.  I’m tall, so a guy shorter than me would be a no.   Looks also important.  I know, it’s shallow, but I can’t help it.  The first minute my husband came over to me, he was the one.  That was over 50 years ago.  I’m reminicing, and wish we could do it all over again.  Sure we fight and sure there are days where we want to kill each other, but there’s nothing like marrying for love.  This show goes in reverse.  Marry first, then MAYBE fall in love.  It’s very tough.  I couldn’t do it.  My Mother and Father were matched by their families.  My Father was a great guy, but I don’t think my Mother ever loved him.  She confided to me that she always still thought of a boyfriend she had when young.  She would have loved to marry him instead, but wasn’t allowed.  She was never a happy woman, and I really felt sorry for her.

1 hour ago, Lindz said:

Well. This season has slim pickings of quality spouses...

What spouse would you pick & why?

I like Greg being forthcoming about his thoughts & feelings, makes things so much easier. 😂

Keith in a heartbeat.  He’s got it all. 😍