S02.E01: The Summer Palace

[TomGirl]

S02.E01 The Summer Palace

Summary:  Still addled from the events in England, Kendall tries to make amends with his dad for his takeover attempt betrayal. Logan receives some unvarnished advice from his financial banker about the next best move for Waystar Royco. As Tom maneuvers for a new position in the company, Shiv tries to determine whether Logan is playing mind games regarding his successor.

 

Edited August 12, 2019 by TomGirl

[preeya]

S02E01 The Summer Palace

Summary:  Still addled from the events in England, Kendall tries to make amends with his dad for his takeover attempt betrayal. Logan receives some unvarnished advice from his financial banker about the next best move for Waystar Royco. As Tom maneuvers for a new position in the company, Shiv tries to determine whether Logan is playing mind games regarding his successor.

[Pop Tart]

Any bets on whether Logan promised Roman the CEO position just as he did Shiv? We didn’t see the tail end of their discussion just Roman making his pitch and then coming out of the room claiming he’d been picked (then making a joke about it).

Of the three Shiv definitely seems the most ready to take on the job but Logan does like to play games. And he hasn’t liked that Shiv was working for the politician who bashed him. So I could see him making the offer just to get her back in the fold again.

Poor Kendall. He’s just so beaten down it seems hard to see how he can recover but I’m actually pulling for him. 

I do so love this show and was thrilled with every minute.

[RealReality]

1 hour ago, Pop Tart said:

Any bets on whether Logan promised Roman the CEO position just as he did Shiv? We didn’t see the tail end of their discussion just Roman making his pitch and then coming out of the room claiming he’d been picked (then making a joke about it).

Of the three Shiv definitely seems the most ready to take on the job but Logan does like to play games. And he hasn’t liked that Shiv was working for the politician who bashed him. So I could see him making the offer just to get her back in the fold again.

Poor Kendall. He’s just so beaten down it seems hard to see how he can recover but I’m actually pulling for him. 

I do so love this show and was thrilled with every minute.

I could absolutely see Logan pulling the same thing with Roman that he did with shiv.  They both love mind games and could have had the "let's groom you for awhile" discussion with logan.  They both got player when Logan named Judy (is that her name?) as the official name for the board.

Kendall.....needs.....help.  maybe he can blink out Morse code for S -O - S on his next television appearance. 

Logan has health issues and I don't think he will ever ever ever give up his power.  He had roman cowed and now Kendall has been tamed.  If he wins....unlikely he will see another "no confidence" vote.  Makes it interesting to see what will happen next.

I wonder if the contractor really stuffed the bag of raccoons in the chimney?  If so, what was the endgame?  Was he going to blame the stink on some expensive plumbing problem so he could increase the ceiling on the work?

It also kinda seems like a dumb move because it was easy to trace.  I would have thought it was smarter to leave the bag of raccoons in there a week or two to develop the odor and then get rid of the evidence. 

The scene and the one after accomplished their goal in that I could see that old Logan holds a grudge for real.  That guy was already going to pretty much do the job at a 100k loss.

I suppose shiv is probably the best choice.....I don't know, Logan clearly holds a grudge.  But I have a feeling that with all the talk of Kendall being hung out to dry that he may be the one who ends up being Logan's choice.  If for no other reason than that Logan can absolutely control Kendall.

Edited August 12, 2019 by RealReality

[ichbin]

I think Marcia is the character to watch. She seems to be the only person in the family who is not afraid of Logan but we haven’t yet been shown why.  I think she and her son are going to be the ones left standing at the end.    

[teddysmom]

9 hours ago, RealReality said:

wonder if the contractor really stuffed the bag of raccoons in the chimney?  If so, what was the endgame?  Was he going to blame the stink on some expensive plumbing problem so he could increase the ceiling on the work?

Was it a bag of raccoons? I thought it was just one and Logan was just confused and ranting.  I work with contractors, large and small, and for the most part, they can be messy and miss stuff and you have to stay on them, but they don't do shit like that.

Logan thinks the contractor ran around gathering raccoons, risking getting bitten, (rabies) killed them, and then crawled up his chimney? He's a fucking lunatic. 

So all billionaires pull this "I won't pay you, sue me" bullshit.  He'd better be worried about more than a bag of dead raccoons.  That house is WAY out in the country and it'd be real easy to take $200,000 worth of revenge on your old ass. 

He had Colin tell Kendall about the waiter to make him feel worse, not to ease his worry. Why is it one person can get out of a car but the other can't.  Agree Kendall should have called police immediately, but the kid was the one who grabbed the wheel and swerved. 

Jeremy Strong is crushing it.  

[terrymct]

9 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

Was it a bag of raccoons? I thought it was just one and Logan was just confused and ranting.  I work with contractors, large and small, and for the most part, they can be messy and miss stuff and you have to stay on them, but they don't do shit like that.

Logan thinks the contractor ran around gathering raccoons, risking getting bitten, (rabies) killed them, and then crawled up his chimney? He's a fucking lunatic. 

So all billionaires pull this "I won't pay you, sue me" bullshit.  He'd better be worried about more than a bag of dead raccoons.  That house is WAY out in the country and it'd be real easy to take $200,000 worth of revenge on your old ass. 

He had Colin tell Kendall about the waiter to make him feel worse, not to ease his worry. Why is it one person can get out of a car but the other can't.  Agree Kendall should have called police immediately, but the kid was the one who grabbed the wheel and swerved. 

Jeremy Strong is crushing it.  

It was at least one rotting carcass in a bag.  It wasn't a raccoon that got in there accidentally.

[teddysmom]

14 minutes ago, terrymct said:

It was at least one rotting carcass in a bag.  It wasn't a raccoon that got in there accidentally.

Oh I didn't notice the bag.   thx

[RealReality]

4 minutes ago, terrymct said:

It was at least one rotting carcass in a bag.  It wasn't a raccoon that got in there accidentally.

Yeah, I agree it wasn't an accident, but Logan is kinda shitty to everyone and surrounds himself with semi-shitty people.  I feel like there should be a list of suspects.  

Also, damn, I get that Logan is rich and doesn't give a shit about food.   But I would have thought someone from the kitchen staff would have found a way to salvage the food and donate it.  

15 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

Was it a bag of raccoons? I thought it was just one and Logan was just confused and ranting.  I work with contractors, large and small, and for the most part, they can be messy and miss stuff and you have to stay on them, but they don't do shit like that.

Logan thinks the contractor ran around gathering raccoons, risking getting bitten, (rabies) killed them, and then crawled up his chimney? He's a fucking lunatic. 

So all billionaires pull this "I won't pay you, sue me" bullshit.  He'd better be worried about more than a bag of dead raccoons.  That house is WAY out in the country and it'd be real easy to take $200,000 worth of revenge on your old ass. 

He had Colin tell Kendall about the waiter to make him feel worse, not to ease his worry. Why is it one person can get out of a car but the other can't.  Agree Kendall should have called police immediately, but the kid was the one who grabbed the wheel and swerved. 

Jeremy Strong is crushing it.  

So I thought it looked like some kind of wolf?  Coyote?  I looked away because......maggots.  but yeah, whatever I saw there was just one.

I thought the same thing in that it's not hard to get revenge if you're a small business and have to take a $200k hit. 

Contractually, I feel like most courts won't enforce specific performance, but would make the contractor maybe pay the difference between the price the.contractor and Logan agreed to and the price Logan can get the work done for by someone else.  So if this guy agreed to 200k and Logan could get the same work done for $250k contractor had to pay Logan 50k.

Under those circumstances, if I were the contractor I may just walk away from the job.  A court isn't going to make the contractor do the work.  And frankly it sounds like Logan picked someone desperate enough to do the work at nearly no profit....so good luck on getting a cheaper price. 

And, as you said, even if obligated to perform the work, fucking that house up is probably not that hard if you're committed.

Logan is for sure fucking with Kendall's head and this is why I think it's possible that Kendall become Logan's best choice to take over the company.  He already has some issues and now Logan can hold the accident over his head.

I don't think the legal consequences would be terrible, but Logan is right .. those optics man....that is not a good look.  

[Broderbits]

1 hour ago, RealReality said:

Also, damn, I get that Logan is rich and doesn't give a shit about food.   But I would have thought someone from the kitchen staff would have found a way to salvage the food and donate it.  

That was a shameful waste; but I would certainly fire the housekeeper who thought, with everyone complaining about the horrible stench in the house, that it was a good idea to lay out a huge spread of food. Why not go to Marcia and ask what she thinks first? On an estate that large is there no area or fancy outbuilding suitable for a picnic? Martha Stewart would have figured something out!

[scrb]

Maybe the OP can retitle and add the summary like the other thread which was opened?

Logan is muttering about buying that summer home for $200 million yet he tried to stiff the contractor for $100k?  He has henchman in Iceland and flies around in helicopters to family softball games but he's penny-pinching on renovations of a $200 million property?

Maybe the point is that he was going to take revenge on people who did him wrong, whether or not it made sense.  He's going to invite litigation over a relatively small amount of money for him and now, even though it makes more sense to sell his dinosaur business, he's going to fight for it because the people trying to take over Waystar wronged him.

I guess the point of Logan surveying each of his children is to show that they want it.  Well maybe not Kendall at the moment since he's still shellshocked, even though Logan's fixers seemed to have covered up his tracks.

I was re-watching some of season 1 and one thing that's striking is that all the siblings want to take over, even Conor to an extent.  Shive plays it off like she's above it all, didn't want to be in the family business, as long as her stock was worth a fortune.  But even last season, she didn't want one of her brothers to take over.  And now, notBernieSanders is dangling a cabinet or some other high position in his potential administration in front of her.

Roman is a screwup whom none of the family seems to respect much -- remember his first act as acting CEO was to masturbate in his office.  But he seems to think since Kendall flamed out, it should be his turn.

Conor is off in la la land -- well New Mexico -- with his concubine, buying Napoleon's penis and muttering about running for president.  He claims not to be interested in the family business but now and then he drops hints that he could be CEO -- they keep replaying him saying "what's unsaid is I could be CEO" for some reason.

Kendall is under Logan's thumb for the moment -- Inside the Episode says this is only a couple of days after the events in England in the season 1 finale.  His siblings think he betrayed the family, has basically eliminated himself as Logan's main heir.

But once he gets over the PTSD, since he's weathered being bullied and gaslit by Logan before, he's probably going to be back in contention.  Last season, after Logan beat him in the board vote, he was going to sit down with startups and do his own thing.  But then he started doing drugs again and decided to take a run for the old man again.

Once he gets some good coke, maybe find some other hookup than Greg, he's going to come back.

[teddysmom]

The house had been closed up so no one was there while the contractor was working?   Maybe if they had someone living on the property they would have noticed a dead animal stench in the house and taken care of it. 

Who has a place like that without a live in staff or groundskeeper and a prop manager? FFS they're billionaires and they leave a $200 million property unattended? 

They deserve a dead raccoon in the chimney. 

The contractor could file a lien against the property, or anything the Roy's own to get his money.  I work in real estate and our contractors have lien releases that we have to execute when work is done. Once the contractor didn't pay his supplier and they filed a lien against us to get their money. 

[RealReality]

5 minutes ago, scrb said:

Maybe the OP can retitle and add the summary like the other thread which was opened?

Logan is muttering about buying that summer home for $200 million yet he tried to stiff the contractor for $100k?  He has henchman in Iceland and flies around in helicopters to family softball games but he's penny-pinching on renovations of a $200 million property?

Maybe the point is that he was going to take revenge on people who did him wrong, whether or not it made sense.  He's going to invite litigation over a relatively small amount of money for him and now, even though it makes more sense to sell his dinosaur business, he's going to fight for it because the people trying to take over Waystar wronged him.

I guess the point of Logan surveying each of his children is to show that they want it.  Well maybe not Kendall at the moment since he's still shellshocked, even though Logan's fixers seemed to have covered up his tracks.

Kendall is under Logan's thumb for the moment -- Inside the Episode says this is only a couple of days after the events in England in the season 1 finale.  His siblings think he betrayed the family, has basically eliminated himself as Logan's main heir.

I think this is exactly the point.  I'm going to absolutely date myself, but I remember reading a book by Sidney Sheldon years back and the main character was a fantastically wealthy and powerful man who just likes taking vengeance on people.

I remember that he was so rich and powerful and nearly no one would screw with him so it was like he got excited when someone did because then he had a score to settle.

I think of Logan in that way.  I think he likes fighting and threatening and lording it over people. 

Logan is worth billions and he wouldn't let the contractor have the fair price od the work....which was 300k or 100k above the 200k ceiling. 

That 100k probably was the cost of a few days on the yacht shiv was on.  But Logan wanted to win and get one over on someone who was powerless.  That contractor was probably desperate and Logan smelled blood. 

However, as someone above said ...there are a million ways that can backfire.....least of which is for the contractor to get cheap subpar materials or hire unfit laborers to do the work because he knows he is REALLY going to do the work at a loss.  

I think it's just up Logan's alley to be a mean bastard and make them all want the top job and bitterly disappoint one or all of his children.  I don't think he has any intention of giving up power no matter how sick he is. 

I vaguely feel like Logan thought of Kendall as pretty spineless in the first season.  So maybe Kendall actually having the balls to go up against Logan may have given him some small tiny sliver of respect for kendall

[teddysmom]

I happened to see some of the credits, Marie Kondo the organizing lady was the translator at the press conference re the Japanese rocket launch!! 

Unless there are 2 Marie Kondos. 

[Eyes High]

Danny Huston's banker character was fascinating: a very serious, powerful presence in a show full of absurd, unserious people. His speech warning Logan to sell was excellent ("Tech has its hands around your throat").

If Season 1 was about breaking Kendall, will Season 2 be about breaking Shiv?

Edited August 12, 2019 by Eyes High

[teddysmom]

22 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Danny Huston's banker character was fascinating: a very serious, powerful presence in a show full of absurd, unserious people. His speech warning Logan to sell was excellent ("Tech has its hands around your throat").

If Season 1 was about breaking Kendall, will Season 2 be about breaking Shiv?

Edited 19 minutes ago by Eyes High

That was the first person who ever spoke to Logan and he didn't go batshit when he was told he was going to lose. 

Shiv will be brought to heel or she'll be gone. 

[TomGirl]

2 hours ago, scrb said:

Maybe the OP can retitle and add the summary like the other thread which was opened?

I’m the OP, and I tried to edit the title but apparently I don’t know how to do it!  If someone else wants to fix it, go for it.  If I’m the only one who can change it, somebody PM me and tell me how!

[scrb]

If you click the edit icon, the little pencil, you can't change the title or copy and paste the episode summary?

It should show up right below the text of your post, along with the quote and share icons.

It could be that after a certain amount of time, you may not be able to edit it.

[scrb]

"I saw their plans and dad's plan is better."

Translation:

"My dad covered up my own Chappaquidick moment when I slipped out of my sister's wedding in order to get high, so I'm totally his bitch now."

[DoubleUTeeEff]

15 hours ago, ichbin said:

I think Marcia is the character to watch. She seems to be the only person in the family who is not afraid of Logan but we haven’t yet been shown why.  I think she and her son are going to be the ones left standing at the end.    

I don't think we can count out Greg or even Gerri wresting some kind of control from the immediate family, either.

[luckylou]

I noticed that Shiv originally proposed to her father he should get rid of the broadcast networks...then more or less promised Tom the chairmanship of the tv network.  

The acting on this show is really superb!  Matthew McFayden is really great as Tom, I think, and Jeremy Strong was great as the shell shocked Kendall.

Edited August 12, 2019 by luckylou

[scrb]

11 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I don't think we can count out Greg or even Gerri wresting some kind of control from the immediate family, either.

Greg knows where some of the bodies are buried, since he took pictures of some documents before he shredded them for Tom.

1 minute ago, luckylou said:

I noticed that Shiv originally proposed to her father he should get rid of the broadcast networks...then more or less promised Tom the chairmanship of the tv network.  

The acting on this show is really superb!  Matthew McFayden is really great as Tom, I think, and Jeremy Strong was very cfun nonchalant no as the shell shocked Kendall.

Yeah isn't that funny.  But she's right, old media is doomed and better to get rid of it.  However Logan uses it to wield power so he isn't going to.

Still not sure why she bothered to marry him but she has an iron clad prenup, including the provision for "shiv happens."

[Pop Tart]

4 hours ago, RealReality said:

I think of Logan in that way.  I think he likes fighting and threatening and lording it over people. 

I think you're right. He came from nothing and had to fight tooth and nail to get where he is so for him that's just the way to operate. Doesn't matter how powerful his enemy is (powerless, basically, contractor or superrich opponents), they must be put down and shown their place at any cost. This is why his relationship with his kids is so damaged - he sees them in exactly the same way. He says he wants them to be independent and ambitious but every time they attempt something it makes them into his opponent or enemy and they must be brought down.

There was a very telling moment in season 1 when they were all in the kitchen in Arizona at Connor's house and Kendall told his dad that he'd realized that Logan resented his kids for having all the privileges that he (Logan) did not have growing up. And that's totally true. He resents them for their privilege, wants them to do more be more ambitious, but then has to squash them the moment they become a "threat" (as he'd define it) to him. 

This cycle is both completely understandable given his own messed up childhood and the struggles he must have faced to get where he is and it's also toxic and screwed up as hell. 

One of the moments I really liked last night was when Logan was throwing out names of those he could name as his successor and he mentioned Gerry. She perked right up at that and then looked pretty unhappy when he said he wouldn't actually name her, just tell people he'd name her. So no, I wouldn't count her out of the power plays. He may push her faithfulness just a bit too far and she's definitely intelligent enough to run them all into the ground.

[northboundtrain]

17 hours ago, Pop Tart said:

Poor Kendall. He’s just so beaten down it seems hard to see how he can recover but I’m actually pulling for him.

Kendall remains the most root-worthy character on the show, I think. Not that that's saying much, but JS's performance is so good, and Kendall's the only one we've seen trying to be a better human being. Yeah, he keeps coming up horrifyingly short, but at least there's some effort there, effort we don't see with the other Roys.

In the scene in the first part of the episode where Logan's lackey is driving Kendall through Iceland and giving him instructions, I couldn't help thinking back to his first scene in the pilot -- also being driven somewhere, but in such radically different circumstances.

6 hours ago, teddysmom said:

Jeremy Strong is crushing it.  

Agreed. I couldn't take my eyes off of him even though Kendall didn't do anything of his own volition all episode.

4 hours ago, scrb said:

I was re-watching some of season 1 and one thing that's striking is that all the siblings want to take over, even Conor to an extent.  Shive plays it off like she's above it all, didn't want to be in the family business, as long as her stock was worth a fortune.  But even last season, she didn't want one of her brothers to take over.

...

But once he gets over the PTSD, since he's weathered being bullied and gaslit by Logan before, he's probably going to be back in contention.  Last season, after Logan beat him in the board vote, he was going to sit down with startups and do his own thing.  But then he started doing drugs again and decided to take a run for the old man again.

Once he gets some good coke, maybe find some other hookup than Greg, he's going to come back.

Re: Shiv, in this interview, Sarah Snook says that Jesse Armstrong explicitly told her when they were shooting the pilot that Shiv did not want anything to do with the company, which SS found surprising.

So either JA's plans changed or he was just telling SS only what he felt she needed to know for S1.

Re: Kendall, it struck me that Marcia told him that he was a sweet boy going through tough times that would make him a man. I don't think he was listening at all, but I took that line as foreshadowing.

3 hours ago, Eyes High said:

If Season 1 was about breaking Kendall, will Season 2 be about breaking Shiv?

Either that, or Shiv will make it to the top at the very end of this season and S3 will be about how she gets pulled back down. I haven't decided which yet. But, either way, I don't see her time in the sun lasting, this time around, at least.

7 minutes ago, luckylou said:

I noticed that Shiv originally proposed to her father he should get rid of the broadcast networks...then more or less promised Tom the chairmanship of the tv network.  

I noticed the same thing. That's got to be intentional, so is it just another sign that Shiv honestly doesn't listen/pay any attention to Tom, or is she actively plotting to put him in a position that she'll soon get to take away from him?

While I enjoyed the episode and was riveted as I always am...did anyone else find the premiere less humorous than previous episodes? I think the only time I actually laughed was during the Kendall/Greg exchange. I'm trying to figure out if it really was just as funny and I'm just letting the darkness of Kendall's story affect how much I'm able to laugh at everything else.

[scrb]

There were some funny lines from Roman and Shiv to describe Kendall.

One was something about an unshaven candle.

Of course Kendall repeatedly saying "I saw their plans, my dad's plan is better" is kind of amusing.  Kendall is smarter than a puppet but he's now been reduced to that.

Still he delivered the threat, that Logan would hire men to kill their dogs and fuck their wives.

To which Sandy said, "fine, shall we proceed with that process?"

They don't make virtually every line uttered by the characters into a putdown like Veep.  But remember, there are a lot of people who were involved with Veep who also work on this show, so the lines are there.

[scrb]

28 minutes ago, Pop Tart said:

There was a very telling moment in season 1 when they were all in the kitchen in Arizona at Connor's house and Kendall told his dad that he'd realized that Logan resented his kids for having all the privileges that he (Logan) did not have growing up. And that's totally true. He resents them for their privilege, wants them to do more be more ambitious, but then has to squash them the moment they become a "threat" (as he'd define it) to him. 

It was New Mexico.

But I don't think he was particularly enamored of his kids.

The credit sequence always shows him standing with Kendall when he was a boy and then leaving him and the other kids alone.

It's as if he was doing just the bare minimum to play the proud parent but he was only going to do so much as a father.

In the new credit sequence, you have the shot of the 4 children by themselves.  Last year it was only three children.

Logan also isn't particularly the doting grandfather either.

I think he has to deal with his children now since the board and Wall Street will demand a successor or a succession plan of some kind.  But even if he isn't impressed by any of them, I guess the prospect of the company slipping out of family control is worse for him.

[RealReality]

5 hours ago, scrb said:

It was New Mexico.

I think he has to deal with his children now since the board and Wall Street will demand a successor or a succession plan of some kind.  But even if he isn't impressed by any of them, I guess the prospect of the company slipping out of family control is worse for him.

Logan will never give up power willingly.  He either names gerri as the "successor" and always lucys the football from his kids.  

"I'm grooming you....it's almost time for me to announce it to the board.....just a little longer....."

I mean shiv, as smart as she is, as ruthless as she is, as much as she had insisted she wasn't going to play the game......joyfully accepted whatever Logan was saying and didn't even ask about a timeline. 

But boy would that suck for her if she completely gave up her job, whatever teeny tiny bit of Independence she has and goes back to working for Logan just so he can string her along.

At the end of the day, Logan has something major on Kendall, so he can control Kendall and that may make Kendall the most palatable option for logan to be his successor.

[tennisgurl]

Every time Kendall said the "I saw their plans and dad's plan is better." it sounded more and more like the kind of propaganda that tortured POWs have to say on camera at gun point. His lips are saying one thing but his dead eyes are saying something else. He is so deeply broken, Logan will probably keep him around just as his yes man because he knows that he will always have his little waltz with manslaughter on him, and that the fight has been drained out of him. 

I totally think that Logan offered the company to both Roman and Shiv, and wants to watch them fight it out over who wins the company, or its just one of his twisted mind game that he likes to play with people, especially his family. I think that Shiv would probably be the best at the job (especially compared to Roman) but I suspect that he might be dangling this in front of her to get her back into the fold and away from his enemies.  

Really, I dont know if he plans on giving the company to ANY of his kids. I think that Marie is the one who might come out on top. She seems nice and polite and pleasant, and happy with things being the way they are, but she is also one of the only people that is never intimidated by Logan. Of course, the way things are going, Greg could sneak up from behind and take the whole thing after the rest of the family has torn each other to pieces or just get broken to bits and give up.

Edited August 13, 2019 by tennisgurl

[RealReality]

5 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Every time Kendall said the "I saw their plans and dad's plan is better." it sounded more and more like the kind of propaganda that tortured POWs have to say on camera at gun point. His lips are saying one thing but his dead eyes are saying something else. He is so deeply broken, Logan will probably keep him around just as his yes man because he knows that he will always have his little waltz with manslaughter on him, and that the fight has been drained out of him. 

Of course, the way things are going, Greg could sneak up from behind and take the whole thing after the rest of the family has torn each other to pieces or just get broken to bits and give up.

He is very broken.  Did he pee himself at the spa?  If so....oh boy.  

It is really weird to hear it from Kendall.  He is sounding like a robot.  The only time he sounded even slightly normal is when he was on cocaine.  

I wonder if cousin Greg is going to become his confidant.  I'd love it if Greg was on the come up. 

[CouchTater]

@northboundtrain said:

I caught that too, right away, because I was confused as to why Shiv would give Tom a position over a division that she just minutes before proposed to eliminate.  Then I remembered that none of them, including Shiv, has a lot of respect for Tom.  I think he is disposable to Shiv, and that maybe she's already plotting an exit plan from the relationship.

Tom is a ridiculous, grovelling dullard....who agreed to an open marriage on his wedding night.  Yikes.

Edited August 13, 2019 by CouchTater

[RedDelicious]

I agree, I think Shiv has been plotting Tom's exit since the hospital hallway proposal.

[clb1016]

11 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Every time Kendall said the "I saw their plans and dad's plan is better." it sounded more and more like the kind of propaganda that tortured POWs have to say on camera at gun point. His lips are saying one thing but his dead eyes are saying something else.

Raymond Shaw is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life.

[Eyes High]

11 hours ago, CouchTater said:

@northboundtrain said:

I caught that too, right away, because I was confused as to why Shiv would give Tom a position over a division that she just minutes before proposed to eliminate.  Then I remembered that none of them, including Shiv, has a lot of respect for Tom.  I think he is disposable to Shiv, and that maybe she's already plotting an exit plan from the relationship.

Tom is a ridiculous, grovelling dullard....who agreed to an open marriage on his wedding night.  Yikes.

And yet Shiv knew that he was a ridiculous, groveling dullard and that he was beneath her (as Logan pointed out) and married him anyway, and certainly no one forced her hand or encouraged the relationship. Maybe she only feels comfortable in a relationship with someone who's dependent on her, as seems to be the case with Connor and his paid companion, or Logan saving the caring father act until after Kendall has been completely destroyed and neutralized as a possible threat.

9 hours ago, RedDelicious said:

I agree, I think Shiv has been plotting Tom's exit since the hospital hallway proposal.

She plotted his exit by...marrying him? Not exactly the best plan. It's a lot easier and cleaner to extricate yourself from a boyfriend than a husband, no matter how ironclad the prenup.

Shiv clearly holds all the power in that relationship: emotional power (loving Tom less--if at all--than he loves her), financial power, career power, etc. Tom is completely dependent on her continued goodwill. And if Shiv wanted Tom gone from her life, he'd be gone: Logan would like nothing more than to pack Tom off, never to be heard from again in Shiv's circles. The only thing keeping Tom in Shiv's life is Shiv.

[scrb]

Not even sure Tom loves Shiv.

In fact, does the family know how Tom treats Greg?

Shiv's boyfriend challenged her, asked why she was marrying Tom and there were some theories discussed last season.  I'll have to catch it again.

I also forget that there was some explanation of his background, like he's from MN and his mother is idiosyncratic in some way.

But the way he messes with Greg, once telling him how he's got to learn to live like a rich man and then took him out for one night to the most extravagant places.

He wanted to get rid of the incriminating material, didn't want to be associated with it, so he forced Greg to but Greg took pictures.  Not sure why Tom didn't save it himself to use for blackmail if necessary.

Or does he think that Shiv would never ditch him?

[RedDelicious]

I think Shiv likes the game and likes having things to control. Tom is/was like a cat toy to her, something to bat around. I think she liked the fact that Tom was like a grain of sand in Logan’s eyelid. A way to annoy/get back at her father. Now that she has the potential to move on to bigger and better things to control than she would have on her own with her current career, she doesn’t really need Tom and she can toss him aside. Remember, we’re only a few days out from the wedding. 

[BeckyThatcher]

After this episode, I totally have a crush on Jesse Armstrong. He’s just brilliant. To come out with such a strong second season opener is rare. There’s no trepidation, no exposition for newbies, no changing things for a fan base- just pedal to the metal.

[Eyes High]

15 hours ago, scrb said:

Not even sure Tom loves Shiv.

In fact, does the family know how Tom treats Greg?

Shiv's boyfriend challenged her, asked why she was marrying Tom and there were some theories discussed last season.  I'll have to catch it again.

I also forget that there was some explanation of his background, like he's from MN and his mother is idiosyncratic in some way.

But the way he messes with Greg, once telling him how he's got to learn to live like a rich man and then took him out for one night to the most extravagant places.

He wanted to get rid of the incriminating material, didn't want to be associated with it, so he forced Greg to but Greg took pictures.  Not sure why Tom didn't save it himself to use for blackmail if necessary.

Or does he think that Shiv would never ditch him?

Tom's reaction to the affair (which didn't jeopardize his position in Shiv's life) was evidence enough of his love for Shiv. As with all of these cruel, bullying, selfish assholes, it's definitely fair to question whether any of them is truly capable of love, Tom included, so I think you can say that insofar as Tom can love anyone, he loves her.

As for Tom thinking that Shiv would never ditch him, Tom certainly doesn't act like someone who is secure in that relationship. He's constantly angling for Shiv's approval. He even asked her permission to kick Nate out of the wedding.

15 hours ago, RedDelicious said:

Now that she has the potential to move on to bigger and better things to control than she would have on her own with her current career, she doesn’t really need Tom and she can toss him aside. Remember, we’re only a few days out from the wedding. 

It's possible that Shiv's ascendance in the company will prompt her to get rid of Tom, now that she's basking in Logan's approval and wants to make him proud. However, that's very different from the contention that Shiv has been plotting to get rid of Tom since he proposed to her, which is completely absurd.

Look at how brutal these people are with their personal relationships. Look at how swiftly and capriciously Roman dumped Grace, a relationship of significant duration (since Grace complains that they haven't had sex in six months). Shiv is no different. If Shiv truly wanted Tom gone from her life, New York, the company, all of it, he'd be gone, and he would have been gone long before Shiv married him. No "plotting," no secret manoeuvring, just "Get out, I'm done."

[RedDelicious]

🤷🏼‍♀️ It’s my take on the situation 🤷🏼‍♀️

[terrymct]

On 8/12/2019 at 5:00 PM, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I don't think we can count out Greg or even Gerri wresting some kind of control from the immediate family, either.

Greg is definitely the dark horse.  He's quiet and learning from everything.  I really think he's going to be the one standing at the very end.

[QQQQ]

I'm new to Succession - binged season 1 last week. Is Roman gay/bi?

[scrb]

1 hour ago, QQQQ said:

I'm new to Succession - binged season 1 last week. Is Roman gay/bi?

People have speculated he's asexual.

His gf left him because he wasn't giving her sex.

But he boasted to Kendall that he's drowning in pussy.

[CouchTater]

16 hours ago, scrb said:

People have speculated he's asexual.

His gf left him because he wasn't giving her sex.

But he boasted to Kendall that he's drowning in pussy.

I think he's into windows.  Glassexual? 😄   tm by CouchTater

[TaraS1]

I absolutely despised Tom in the beginning, but now I find his smarmy, suck-uppy awfulness a delight to watch lol

And because I can be as shallow as some of the Roys, I do not care for Shiv's new hair.

Also, I love Gerri.  The actress is so, so familiar to me, but none of her IMDb credits helped.

[Snewtsie]

On 9/19/2019 at 6:20 AM, TaraS1 said:

I absolutely despised Tom in the beginning, but now I find his smarmy, suck-uppy awfulness a delight to watch lol

And because I can be as shallow as some of the Roys, I do not care for Shiv's new hair.

Also, I love Gerri.  The actress is so, so familiar to me, but none of her IMDb credits helped.

Agree 100%. I'm most fascinated with Tom, the actor is superb. I'm equally repulsed and amused by him. I hate him, yet I feel sorry for him.

I also dislike Shiv's new hair- the style looks fine on her, but it sort of make her appear more generic and less real. Like we're watching Dynasty or something, she looks too perfect in every scene. I don't like it.

And the actress who plays Gerri is great. I've seen her in other things but she's such a good character actor you never really know where you know her from.

That's three for three. Let's do lunch!

[Milburn Stone]

On 8/11/2019 at 10:27 PM, Pop Tart said:

Any bets on whether Logan promised Roman the CEO position just as he did Shiv? We didn’t see the tail end of their discussion just Roman making his pitch and then coming out of the room claiming he’d been picked (then making a joke about it).

Of the three Shiv definitely seems the most ready to take on the job but Logan does like to play games. And he hasn’t liked that Shiv was working for the politician who bashed him. So I could see him making the offer just to get her back in the fold again.

This episode is as far as I've watched, but I think he sincerely offered the position to Shiv. The fact that she's obviously the sole one qualified is only part of the reason. The other part is that Logan seems driven to bring family back in who rebel against him; it's the one thing he can't tolerate. He didn't just fix things for Kendall to ward off the hostile takeover, he did it as much (if not more) to make Kendall his bitch again. With Shiv, he wants to compromise her allegiance to Gil, but blackmail won't work, so gigantic bribery is his method. He has no motivation to reward or blackmail Roman, because Roman never left the fold. 

Edited December 17, 2019 by Milburn Stone

[pfk505]

Kendall has to be the most cringe worthy and utterly pathetic character in all of TV. But Jeremy Strong's performance is one of the greatest I've ever witnessed. I barely made it through the first few episodes of this show but I'm glad I stuck with it, as now I can't look away.

[TV Anonymous]

When I watched the catering staff threw away the uneaten shrimp and lobster to the garbage, my heart sank...

[Kel Varnsen]

On 8/12/2019 at 11:03 AM, RealReality said:

Under those circumstances, if I were the contractor I may just walk away from the job.  A court isn't going to make the contractor do the work.  And frankly it sounds like Logan picked someone desperate enough to do the work at nearly no profit....so good luck on getting a cheaper price. 

My understanding was that the work was already done. The guy's original quote was $300,000, but Logan lowballed him down to $200,000 (the contractor says it was a $300,000 job indicating it's finished) Logan hadn't completely paid him since you know he is the type of guy not to pay an invoice the week he gets it. So now Logan is pissed about the racoons and tells the guy he is getting $100,000 and that is it. Work is done so cutting corners or walking off at this point won't really work. And the contractor's suppliers are now looking to get paid and as he said what Logan is giving him won't even cover his material costs. So basically, he probably took a job with the billionaire thinking it would be good money and possible future work. And now he is fucked since the only option is a lawsuit and Logan has an army of lawyers who get paid if they go to court or if they sit at their desks and play computer solitaire all day. 

[The Solution]

On 8/12/2019 at 12:47 PM, RealReality said:

I vaguely feel like Logan thought of Kendall as pretty spineless in the first season.  So maybe Kendall actually having the balls to go up against Logan may have given him some small tiny sliver of respect for kendall

Just now rewatching the previous seasons before I watch Season 3, and I totally agree with this assessment. Especially since Kendall's business decisions so far in the series have been pretty much the right ones for the business.

[SlovakPrincess]

Kendall is a pathetic figure, but at a certain point ... dude, you have children of your own, one of whom has special needs.  It's long past time to get it together for them and back away from the toxic family drama.  Which is what he should've done before he got himself into this situation in the first place.  

These people are such joyless freaks.  Tom and Shiv abandoning their honeymoon for this is pure insanity.  Oh, and of course Shiv gets Tom in charge of TV news ... which she just told her father he should abandon entirely in the future.  LOL.  

Watching all that food get thrown out physically pained me ... but why did they put it out while still searching for the source of the gross smell, anyway?

Gerri, Karolina, Karl ... they all look pained babysitting this dysfunctional family.  But this is the paycheck they signed up for.  Hope they're saving up their money.  Financial Independence, Retire Early, kids!