S04.E12: Good Will Haunting

[OnceSane]

Quote

With the help of singer Macy Gray, Karen and her daughter, Rayvin, record a tribute to her parents; Robyn plans a haunted house party for Juan's birthday, where an unexpected guest makes a surprise appearance; the charges against Michael are dropped.

Airs July 28, 2019,

[biakbiak]

No Macy, No!!!!

[luckyroll3]

7 hours ago, OnceSane said:

Robyn plans a haunted house party for Juan's birthday, where an unexpected guest makes a surprise appearance

The unexpected guest better be Juan's "love of his life" from his time in Europe.  Otherwise, who cares.

[OnceSane]

3 hours ago, luckyroll3 said:

The unexpected guest better be Juan's "love of his life" from his time in Europe.  Otherwise, who cares.

MTE.

[Bronzedog]

So now Karen is trying to use the show to launch a career for her daughter.  Didn’t work for Candyass, Karen.

Edited July 29, 2019 by Bronzedog

[TexasGal]

Gizelle making popcorn to watch Ashley and Michael’s interview - lol!

[Mr. Miner]

Karen is such a poser! 

[Bronzedog]

Is there anyone who doesn’t think it was Juan Michael was talking about?  

I keep waiting for Juan to give Robyn a noogie and call her buddy.

White Chris is uncomfortable as hell with Michael there.

Edited July 29, 2019 by Bronzedog

[TexasGal]

So unseen production footage doesn’t back Michael’s story.  Shocker.  But also doesn’t really show what happened.  Also a shocker. 

[Empress1]

18 minutes ago, Bronzedog said:

White Chris is uncomfortable as hell with Michael there.

He was looking at Michael like " ... Let me just nod and smile and hope he goes away."

Ashley really can't take her shit being dished back out, and I don't know why she thought the women would think Michael was innocent. She was probably mad as hell when she saw this "unseen producer footage," though at the reunion she'll probably claim it exonerates him.

Quote

So unseen production footage doesn’t back Michael’s story.  Shocker.  But also doesn’t really show what happened.  Also a shocker. 

I totally think he grabbed the cameraman's ass. At this point, there's too much smoke. I don't know what his sexual orientation is, but I think he intentionally grabbed that man's ass.

The preview for next week shows Candiace and Chris looking at a $2.5M house. Come on, Candiace. If you want to get off your mother's payroll, act like it.

Edited July 29, 2019 by Empress1

[Bronzedog]

I totally believe Michael grabbed the camera man’s ass, too.  And, because I’m a bitch, I loved Gizelle’s “High five?  High five?”

I will also always believe that there’s some tie in between Ashley’s defense of Michael and him suddenly agreeing to be a father again.  Hey!  I warned you!  I’m a bitch!

[breezy424]

The unseen footage really doesn't show what happened.  I do know that Candy, Gizelle, Karen and Robyn have been salivating on going for Michael.  It's a bit much for me. 

Really?  Sorry Karen,  I like your daughter but she's really not a singer.

Preview for next week... Sure Candy, you can afford that house.  Not.

[bichonblitz]

1 hour ago, Empress1 said:

The preview for next week shows Candiace and Chris looking at a $2.5M house.

I do not want to see this production driven bullshit. Not many people can afford a home at that price, much less these two jokers. Potomac is losing me fast. If Candiass returns next season I'm out. 

[Bronzedog]

When I was in my early 20s and I was hanging out with a friend, we’d often go to open houses of outrageously expensive houses just to look at them.  We didn’t have a pot to pee in and I’m sure all the realtors knew it.  Especially since my friend would call me “the wife” or “the little woman.” That’s what the preview of Chris and Candyass reminded me of.  In our case, we were killing time, in their case, they’re creating a storyline.

Edited July 29, 2019 by Bronzedog

[drivethroo]

1 hour ago, Bronzedog said:

I will also always believe that there’s some tie in between Ashley’s defense of Michael and him suddenly agreeing to be a father again.  Hey!  I warned you!  I’m a bitch!

Yes.  Ashley just had the baby (July).  This episode was filmed in October (Juan's birthday is in October).  October to July is 9 months.  This is a beard baby

44 minutes ago, breezy424 said:

The unseen footage really doesn't show what happened.  I do know that Candy, Gizelle, Karen and Robyn have been salivating on going for Michael.  It's a bit much for me. 

Why not? Ashley has been all up in Robyn's business from the beginning of the show and insinuated that Karen & Ray had an arrangement last season. Koala Bear was all up in Ray's wallet like Capital One asking Ray how he could afford a house in Great Falls and was he renting.  What makes Michael & Ashley so special they can't get roasted like they try to roast the others.  Plus for Gizelle, she's been saying since Season 1 that Boomerang was funny when he grabbed Katie's man's ass and decided to show up at the gay club on what was supposed to be Girls' Night.

3 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

Not many people can afford a home at that price, much less these two jokers.

They can't afford an apartment off Rt. 1.  We just want house porn.

1 hour ago, Empress1 said:

I totally think he grabbed the cameraman's ass. At this point, there's too much smoke. I don't know what his sexual orientation is, but I think he intentionally grabbed that man's ass.

They all know Opera House pinched that cameraman's booty.  No, the footage did not show him grabbing ass but why would the cameraman say "Please don't do that...don't do that" and Hot Mike says "Oh ok I'm sorry."  The charges were dropped by Montgomery County because the cameraman refused to cooperate, not because there was no evidence.  The cameraman was likely paid off by the Darbys...Hot Mike probably told Ashley with the cost of the payoff they'd have to close Oz and she was like I want a baby in return for my silence...

[breezy424]

Michael could have bumped the camera man when camera man was filming.  It wouldn't be the least bit unusual for the camera man to say please don't do that. 

[drivethroo]

3 minutes ago, breezy424 said:

Michael could have bumped the camera man when camera man was filming.  It wouldn't be the least bit unusual for the camera man to say please don't do that. 

I doubt seriously if Michael had merely bumped the cameraman, the cameraman would be like "Don't do that."  These cameramen & women are in all sorts of tight situations, parties, crowd scenes etc with the cast & filming and they probably bump the camerapeople all the time.  I'm sorry, I doubt seriously if Michael had just "bumped" the cameraman he would've been like "Please don't do that...don't do that."

Ashley jumped on IG Live about all of these allegations and production's hand in it.   I think she needs to put the social media down and go tend to her baby and let Michael defend himself.

[breezy424]

19 minutes ago, drivethroo said:

I doubt seriously if Michael had merely bumped the cameraman, the cameraman would be like "Don't do that."  These cameramen & women are in all sorts of tight situations, parties, crowd scenes etc with the cast & filming and they probably bump the camerapeople all the time.  I'm sorry, I doubt seriously if Michael had just "bumped" the cameraman he would've been like "Please don't do that...don't do that."

Ashley jumped on IG Live about all of these allegations and production's hand in it.   I think she needs to put the social media down and go tend to her baby and let Michael defend himself.

One can seriously doubt it is was accidental but at the same time, that footage doesn't prove that Michael pinched the camera man.  The camera man didn't say don't pinch me on the ass. 

I also think many allegations against all the housewives and their family are skewed because of the viewers like or dislike of them.  I don't like this person.  Therefore, it's easier to believe something or not believe something because of their feelings toward that person. 

[Jets4274]

I can’t get over Katie and her horrible wigs.  She appears to have lost it a bit.  I think she’s acting up to be brought back into the show as a regular, even if it means appearing a bit loopy.

Of course Ashley had a beard baby. No sexual chemistry w/Michael whatsoever.

 Karen wants to be the next Tina Knowles. 

Giselle is so messy.

Monique is the only likable Housewife.  

Edited July 29, 2019 by Jets4274

[Bronzedog]

How random was the Macy Gray appearance?

[Boofish]

I have watched copious amounts of House Hunters and now have been brainwashed into thinking great value Paula Patton and Robin Thicke might be able to afford that house .. "my husband passes out duck quesadilla samples at the mall and I detangle wigs. Our budget is 2.5 million"

[smores]

2 hours ago, drivethroo said:

I doubt seriously if Michael had merely bumped the cameraman, the cameraman would be like "Don't do that."  These cameramen & women are in all sorts of tight situations, parties, crowd scenes etc with the cast & filming and they probably bump the camerapeople all the time.  I'm sorry, I doubt seriously if Michael had just "bumped" the cameraman he would've been like "Please don't do that...don't do that."

Ashley jumped on IG Live about all of these allegations and production's hand in it.   I think she needs to put the social media down and go tend to her baby and let Michael defend himself.

I was willing to give the benefit of the doubt to Michael up until this episode, because I don't particularly care if he has an arrangement with Ashley or not.  If he likes guys and she is good with it, that's fine.  It's not the situation I would want to live in, but I don't care what other people do, so as long as they are happy, great.  And I could have brushed past the sausage comment as a joke made when drunk and potentially taken out of context.  

Having seen the unseen footage, though, I now believe he did it.  I totally get that sometimes you are walking past someone in a tight space and you might have physical contact with another person, I think everyone has accidentally brushed someone else's boobs or butt and it was totally an accident and you can tell that the other person didn't mean it, they apologize, say excuse me, and you keep going on the way you were.  It just happens when you are in a small space, maybe trying to get down a row at a theater, or at a party or in a club, etc.  

In this case, though, you see Michael go past the camera guy, he goes in front of him and you hear him giggling.  He says something to him like "hey bub!" and then the camera guy says "Don't do that"  Michael says something else, still giggling, and then the camera guy is like "Please don't do that"  Then Michael is like "oh, ok, sorry"  He didn't immediately say he was sorry, he wasn't turned sideways trying to squeak past him, with a hand out at shoulder height, the way you'd do if you wanted to get out from behind someone and didn't want to run into them.  And he didn't say "excuse me" or start with "I'm sorry" which you'd pretty much do as a reflex if you bumped up against someone as an accident.  You wouldn't giggle about it until called out on it.

52 minutes ago, Boofish said:

I have watched copious amounts of House Hunters and now have been brainwashed into thinking great value Paula Patton and Robin Thicke might be able to afford that house .. "my husband passes out duck quesadilla samples at the mall and I detangle wigs. Our budget is 2.5 million"

I mean, to be fair, they didn't say what the 2.5 million was.  They might have meant 2.5 million chopsticks, or business cards, etc.  We know it certainly isn't dollars.  

[drivethroo]

I re-watched the end of the show several times and there were 3 cameras, involved: A, B & C.

Michael said on Good Day DC:  "I was inside and I moved to go out because there were people all over the place, and I did bump into the cameraman, I presume it was that cameraman."

Camera A - 17:58 (5:58): Karen/Ray, Monique/Chris1 & Chris2/Candiace were lined up to take a picture.  Ashley comes running up.  Chris1 asks where Michael is and Ashley replies he's inside because he said he was hot.

Ashley says in her TH: There were 3 cameramen lined up in a line and the group was taking a couples picture.

Ashley says Michael had to get through the people so he moved by the cameraman.  He grazed the cameraman  and apologized to the cameraman for bumping him.

Camera A - 17:51 (7 minutes earlier)

Monique is looking around at the party.  In her TH, she says she has cameras all over her house but none in that position and she was staying neutral.

Camera A - 18:15 {after the incident happened}: Everyone is seated except production & the catering staff.  Michael & Ashley are seen joking with a large black man.

Candiace wonders in the TH if there was unseen footage.

UNSEEN FOOTAGE:

Camera A, 17:58: Chris1 asks where Michael is as Ashley comes running up to the group.

Camera A -16:53 (1 hour earlier): Monique & Ashley are chatting on the patio.

{{{Camera B, 16:53}}} :

The cameraman comes from inside the house. Michael comes from inside the house behind him. Michael walks past/in front of the cameraman and says "Hey bud, you alright?" and giggles.  Cameraman says "Don't do that.  Please don't do that" and Michael says "Ok, alright, no problem".  Cameraman goes back inside of the house.

Camera A, 16:53: Michael joins Ashley on the patio.

Camera C, 20:08 (inside of the house): Michael tells the large black man from 18:15 that he didn't touch his butt,let him get him a beer.

Monique & Ashley say the large black man is Monique's cousin Hank & Hank & Michael have a running joke about butt grabbing & that scene was production messiness.  I agree with this.  Camera C is irrelevant to the story. The cameraman's middle name is Michael...that scene was inserted for drama.

The events of Camera B match up with the police report the cameraman filed, except for the time (camera man said it was around 5:45 and Camera B shows 4:53 ... but the camera time may not have been adjusted for DST).

I don't think tonight's footage was not necessarily to expose Michael, it was to expose Ashley for not knowing what really happened & telling a "version" of what happened that could not have happened:

In my opinion, having viewed the footage & read the police report:

• Michael did touch the cameraman's butt inappropriately.
• It wasn't that serious because they were all still there filming joking & laughing 2 hours later.
• Ashley could not have seen what happened between Michael & the cameraman (the lady hanging out by the pole would have seen everything, though)
• Michael went back inside to smooth things over with cameraman; it didn't work at first.
• After the cameraman filed charges, Michael gave him & the supervisor a payoff to keep quiet.
• Michael decided to get Ashley pregnant to keep up appearances.

Because there are some inconsistencies between the cameraman's statement, the timestamp & what the footage showed, plus with the cameraman & supervisor not cooperating with Montgomery police, they dropped the charges.  That doesn't mean Michael didn't do it; IMO he did.

Michael could have grabbed the cameraman's butt AND the cameraman could've been trying to extort Michael.  Both things can be true.

Edited July 29, 2019 by drivethroo

[luckyroll3]

24 minutes ago, drivethroo said:

I re-watched the end of the show several times and there were 3 cameras, involved: A, B & C.

Michael said on Good Day DC:  "I was inside and I moved to go out because there were people all over the place, and I did bump into the cameraman, I presume it was that cameraman."

Camera A - 17:58 (5:58): Karen/Ray, Monique/Chris1 & Chris2/Candiace were lined up to take a picture.  Ashley comes running up.  Chris1 asks where Michael is and Ashley replies he's inside because he said he was hot.

Ashley says in her TH: There were 3 cameramen lined up in a line and the group was taking a couples picture.

Ashley says Michael had to get through the people so he moved by the cameraman.  He grazed the cameraman  and apologized to the cameraman for bumping him.

Camera A - 17:51 (7 minutes earlier)

Monique is looking around at the party.  In her TH, she says she has cameras all over her house but none in that position and she was staying neutral.

Camera A - 18:15 {after the incident happened}: Everyone is seated except production & the catering staff.  Michael & Ashley are seen joking with a large black man.

Candiace wonders in the TH if there was unseen footage.

UNSEEN FOOTAGE:

Camera A, 17:58: Chris1 asks where Michael is as Ashley comes running up to the group.

Camera A -16:53 (1 hour earlier): Monique & Ashley are chatting on the patio.

{{{Camera B, 16:53}}} :

The cameraman comes from inside the house. Michael comes from inside the house behind him. Michael walks past/in front of the cameraman and says "Hey bud, you alright?" and giggles.  Cameraman says "Don't do that.  Please don't do that" and Michael says "Ok, alright, no problem".  Cameraman goes back inside of the house.

Camera A, 16:53: Michael joins Ashley on the patio.

Camera C, 20:08 (inside of the house): Michael tells the large black man from 18:15 that he didn't touch his butt,let him get him a beer.

Monique & Ashley say the large black man is Monique's cousin Hank & Hank & Michael have a running joke about butt grabbing & that scene was production messiness.  I agree with this.  Camera C is irrelevant to the story. The cameraman's middle name is Michael...that scene was inserted for drama.

The events of Camera B match up with the police report the cameraman filed, except for the time (camera man said it was around 5:45 and Camera B shows 4:53 ... but the camera time may not have been adjusted for DST).

I don't think tonight's footage was not necessarily to expose Michael, it was to expose Ashley for not knowing what really happened & telling a "version" of what happened that could not have happened:

In my opinion, having viewed the footage & read the police report:

• Michael did touch the cameraman's butt inappropriately.
• It wasn't that serious because they were all still there filming joking & laughing 2 hours later.
• Ashley could not have seen what happened between Michael & the cameraman (the lady hanging out by the pole would have seen everything, though)
• Michael went back inside to smooth things over with cameraman; it didn't work at first.
• After the cameraman filed charges, Michael gave him & the supervisor a payoff to keep quiet.
• Michael decided to get Ashley pregnant to keep up appearances.

Because there are some inconsistencies between the cameraman's statement, the timestamp & what the footage showed, plus with the cameraman & supervisor not cooperating with Montgomery police, they dropped the charges.  That doesn't mean Michael didn't do it; IMO he did.

Michael could have grabbed the cameraman's butt AND the cameraman could've been trying to extort Michael.  Both things can be true.

Come thru detailed analysis!  I can always count on y'all for some deep investigative journalism.  All of that "unseen footage" was very confusing, so I appreciate the play by play.  I'm still trying to understand if Bravo is just trying to be messy as fuck.  

[Stats Queen]

6 hours ago, luckyroll3 said:

  I'm still trying to understand if Bravo is just trying to be messy as fuck

I’m voting “yes they are” since that is their default mode.

[Empress1]

9 hours ago, Jets4274 said:

I can’t get over Katie and her horrible wigs.  She appears to have lost it a bit.  I think she’s acting up to be brought back into the show as a regular, even if it means appearing a bit loopy.

I get the impression that she's going through real shit off camera - I believe she lost custody of her three young children. So I don't think her loopiness is an act. It actually makes me uncomfortable to watch, for that reason.

[drivethroo]

Camera C & it's events are definitely Bravo messiness.  It's irrelevant to the events that happened.

Camera A and Camera B show what happened at 16:53.  Everything happened quickly but I don't think Ashley could've seen what happened at 16:53 if she was chatting with Monique on the patio at 16:53 and Michael & the cameraman were coming out of the house onto the patio at 16:53.

The scene at 18:15 and Camera C are related because that's the same man that Hot Mike was saying "I didn't touch your butt!"  But 18:15 man is not the same man at 16:53.  And even if 18:15 Man WAS the same man as 16:53, 18:15 man was clearly laughing and joking with Michael and Karen.  The events at 20:08 would actually clear Michael, IMO.

Ashley claims there were 3 cameramen in a line and Michael had to squeeze past them to get through the crowd...so where are the other 2 cameramen at 16:53?

I am in no way saying Ashley is lying, but Ashley doesn't have all the facts and is going around being Michael's guard dog on this issue and I think that's the purpose of last night's unseen footage...Ashley is going off of what Michael is telling her, not what she's actually seen.

Something shady went down between Michael & the cameraman at 16:53, Michael knows he was shady and that's why he finally decided to get Ashley pregnant, to shut down the gay rumors.

Edited July 29, 2019 by drivethroo

[Boofish]

Whether or not Michael is gay and Ashley don't mind is not the problem I have with it all. The problem is Michael continues to make sexual advances and overtures to Ashley's employer and co-workers who are clearly not interested and that is where I draw the line. Jesus could not convince me that Michael did not grope that cameraman. It was not a crowded room as he stated. And Ashley owe Monique her life and reputation because I also believe Monique had working camera's everywhere and is refusing to share the footage and Lord knows she don't owe shrimp on the barbie and curly top a damn thing. I feel bad because I think they are all treating this like a joke because he grabbed a man. Had he groped a woman there would be no giggles and refusing to turn over evidence. 2019 Boy Band Reject White Chris was NOWHERE NEAR what happened so his whole "snitches get stitches" attitude is grating on my nerve. Why Robin and Monique are being Ashleys 3rd world country mosquito net and protecting her perverted husband is beyond my understanding. Reminds me of when Aviva's disgusting father spent an entire season begging the women of NY to start a #MeToo movement and they all just thought it was funny.

[BloggerAloud]

Gizelle watching the Darbys interview while eating popcorn was giving me Brenda in Scary Movie realness.

[Crazydoxielady]

 I have real compassion for Katie this season, I agree with the person above, she is clearly going through something psychiatric/addiction/medical. She likely came on the show for a paycheck, but her actions will keep her children out of her life because now she has her behavior in real time captured on tape.

I have no  compassion on the other hand for either of the Darbys, it is obvious that both are “guilty party of two.” Ashley is guilty for thinking that any of us would fall for this complete fabrication,  and Michael is clearly guilty of groping. I think at this point Ashley should be asked to leave the show. She and her husband have proven to be a liability. She has her paycheck now, oops ... I mean baby ...for ongoing funding so she should be OK. She’s Michaels beard, and I’m done with either fraud on my screen.

I thought juan was really really sweet at his party, and although I may not always understand his relationship with his wife, they clearly have a fondness and affection for each other. I also thought he handled the conversation with Michael in a very sweet way and I was impressed.

I continue to love Karen, and she’s right;  Micheals behavior was wrong, and as a rape victim I’m sure it hit a nerve with her. I’m loving her short blond wig and her ongoing mouth movements & facial expressions are hilarious. But...no, I’m not cosigning to any kind of singing ventures for her daughter, and it was super random to see Macy Gray on camera with them. But if the motive was to just get a song on tape in  honor of her departed grandparents then that is a very sweet gesture. 

[islandgal140]

I watched the found footage twice and no more than that because I refuse to analyze this mess like they were the Zapruder tapes. I definitely think Michael did more than just brush by the camera man. 

I was surprised but wasn't surprised by the found footage. Candyass was shown saying "someone must have caught something" too many times. 

Wait? Didn't Monique say it happened in the basement?

13 hours ago, drivethroo said:

Why not? Ashley has been all up in Robyn's business from the beginning of the show and insinuated that Karen & Ray had an arrangement last season. Koala Bear was all up in Ray's wallet like Capital One asking Ray how he could afford a house in Great Falls and was he renting.  What makes Michael & Ashley so special they can't get roasted like they try to roast the others.  

I swear I want to slap whatever little edges Ashley's got left off her 5 head when she talks about people gloating about her much deserved comeupannce. Bitch has been salivating over her castmates misfortunes since the show's inception. 

This is exactly why I think the HW are actually going far too easy on Ashley and Michael. They deserve everything they are getting times 10. Karen, who was the brunt of most of Ashley's shit, is truly acting like a grown up but for real, for real - the petty in me wishes she would give her the business with both barrels. 

There is something disingenious about Monique as it relates to Ashley and her situation. I do think Monique reveled a little bit and she did talk about karma but she throws the whole rest of the cast under the bus. Why show Ashley Candyass's text messages? It is not like it was any secret what Candy thinks or feels about the Darbys. 

15 hours ago, Bronzedog said:

Is there anyone who doesn’t think it was Juan Michael was talking about?  

I don't. Mainly because I don't think Robyn would be quite so nonchalant and giggly about it if Michael had been talking about her glorified roommate Juan. Nor would Juan. IMHO.

Rayvin has become a really beautiful young woman but nope I don't want to hear her sing.

Ashley she needs to never pull her hair back away from her face because of that 5 head and lack of edges. 

Edited July 29, 2019 by islandgal140

[ZaldamoWilder]

14 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I totally think he grabbed the cameraman's ass. At this point, there's too much smoke. I don't know what his sexual orientation is, but I think he intentionally grabbed that man's ass.

The preview for next week shows Candiace and Chris looking at a $2.5M house. Come on, Candiace. If you want to get off your mother's payroll, act like it.

this a controlled burn, Beloved.  

10 hours ago, smores said:

I was willing to give the benefit of the doubt to Michael up until this episode, because I don't particularly care if he has an arrangement with Ashley or not.  If he likes guys and she is good with it, that's fine.  It's not the situation I would want to live in, but I don't care what other people do, so as long as they are happy, great.  And I could have brushed past the sausage comment as a joke made when drunk and potentially taken out of context.  

Having seen the unseen footage, though, I now believe he did it.  I totally get that sometimes you are walking past someone in a tight space and you might have physical contact with another person, I think everyone has accidentally brushed someone else's boobs or butt and it was totally an accident and you can tell that the other person didn't mean it, they apologize, say excuse me, and you keep going on the way you were.  It just happens when you are in a small space, maybe trying to get down a row at a theater, or at a party or in a club, etc.  

In this case, though, you see Michael go past the camera guy, he goes in front of him and you hear him giggling.  He says something to him like "hey bub!" and then the camera guy says "Don't do that"  Michael says something else, still giggling, and then the camera guy is like "Please don't do that"  Then Michael is like "oh, ok, sorry"  He didn't immediately say he was sorry, he wasn't turned sideways trying to squeak past him, with a hand out at shoulder height, the way you'd do if you wanted to get out from behind someone and didn't want to run into them.  And he didn't say "excuse me" or start with "I'm sorry" which you'd pretty much do as a reflex if you bumped up against someone as an accident.  You wouldn't giggle about it until called out on it.

I mean, to be fair, they didn't say what the 2.5 million was.  They might have meant 2.5 million chopsticks, or business cards, etc.  We know it certainly isn't dollars.  

^ a thousand of these.   

No it doesn't show the event itself.  However, from the tone of what was heard, a reasonable person can conclude that whatever it was, was a) personal to the cameraman and b) without consent.   Camera crew are used to working in very close proximity to these pseudocelebrities without becoming a part of the event they're filming, even if there's physical interaction.   And when there is physical interaction, an instruction *not to do that* about/to a thing outside themselves disrupts the "star's" actions.   Bruh, a camera crew allowed a(n) MTV teenager at the time to get behind the wheel of a car knowing she was completely fucking hammered.  It strikes me as highly likely that it's against policy/procedure for the crew to interrupt the cast at all unless it's personal in nature - even then I'd imagine this to be more knee jerk instinctive than anything else.   The cameraman who was yolked around by Nene and needed stitches because of it, didn't say shit on mic, he kept rolling as he was being dragged.   As drivethroo pointed out, the audio after that is completely self incriminating.  

Nobody:  

Michael:  I didn't grab your butt 

He's got a problem and child support has granted that shitty ass wife of his enough immunity to come clean about saying so.

If Katie is in a custody crisis, I understand her racking up these checks, I would really rather she used the money to stay in counseling during this time though, that's rough. 

Totally missed this part - did ya'll say the house Chris/Candace went to see is $2.5M?  Lol.  Lawd, I hope these garnishment folk ain't paying attention.

[jmcd44]

10 hours ago, drivethroo said:

I re-watched the end of the show several times and there were 3 cameras, involved: A, B & C.

Put on a cape because right now you are my hero.  

I burst out laughing at Gizelle saying "LIES" when the producer asked about Monique's cameras.  This is why I will always be a Giselle fan.

And I went to Markoff's Forest a few years ago-I was Karen like.  I did not give any of the characters the fingers (I mean they are like local volunteer actors and some are kids), but I did tell one "I know your chainsaw doesn't have a chain."  Although I did jump a lot and then laugh at myself.  It was fun!

[islandgal140]

I CAN'T WAIT FOR THIS REUNION!

Can you say LIT !!!!!!

[drivethroo]

I wonder if the child support people would up Chris' child support payments due to the addition of Candiace's income?  I'm going to say Candiace probably shouldn't buy a house with Chris until the youngest child is nearing 18 years old.  I'm thinking if they do buy a house it will be in Momma's name anyway.

I agree, while Hot Mike has a crush on Juan, I don't think Juan is the person he was talking about, mainly because of Robyn's reaction.  Juan knows what's going on because Michael asked Juan to tell Robyn to stop running her mouth, which brings me to this:

Ashley put a battery in Mike's back to go after Robyn for revealing what he said in a drunken state.  Robyn is being a way better friend to Ashley than Ashley ever has been to Robyn because Robyn didn't reveal or discuss what happened until other people who were in the situation revealed it happened.  She STILL hasn't revealed who Mike was talking about even though Candiace & Chris2 COULD (even they haven't revealed who Mike was talking about).  Ashley knows that it's Gizelle who stirred the pot, not Robyn, but she's scared of Gizelle so she's lashing out at Robyn.  If you're scared, say you're scared and direct your rage to the right people, namely Michael for putting you in this situation and Gizelle for stirring the pot.

Also, what made Katie say that Ashley was stupid?  What went down between those two, because just a couple of episodes ago they were twirling their titties around in the store together.

Edited July 29, 2019 by drivethroo

[Empress1]

1 hour ago, Boofish said:

Whether or not Michael is gay and Ashley don't mind is not the problem I have with it all. The problem is Michael continues to make sexual advances and overtures to Ashley's employer and co-workers who are clearly not interested and that is where I draw the line.

It reminds me of John Travolta. Remember when there were all those stories about him groping masseurs in spas? What John Travolta does with his life and his money is his business, and what goes on in his marriage is his and his wife's business. If he wants to hook up with masseurs and they want to hook up with him,great! But there was a period there where it looked like he was getting off on a lack of consent, and THAT is not cool.

Michael and Ashley are whatever; they both seem like assholes, frankly. If Michael likes men and Ashley is OK with that, whatever- you never know the details of someone else's marriage. But if Michael's assholishness extends to him groping - sexually assaulting - a man who's just trying to do his job, that's not cool. Illegal, in fact.

50 minutes ago, islandgal140 said:

I swear I want to slap whatever little edges Ashley's got left off her 5 head when she talks about people gloating about her much deserved comeupannce. Bitch has been salivating over her castmates misfortunes since the show's inception. 

It was literally her intro tagline at one point, trying to frame her gossip as "keeping things interesting." Karen and Robyn (especially Karen) are much nicer to her than I'd be. That stuff with Michael questioning how Ray can afford to live where he lives was racist, to say nothing of Ashley clowning Robyn's bankruptcy and relationship.

[Irritable]

I just can’t get too upset about Michael grabbing the cameraman’s butt because I’m mad at BRAVO and their double standards as to how they treat their favorites compared to people they don’t like. I do think it was wrong, he absolutely should not have done whatever it was he did, the copious denials are old, it’s all icky.  BUT! All I can think about while people are acting like Michael killed a man, and BRAVO is bringing out the unseen footage, and everyone continues to want him and Ashley to be publicly flogged, is that this is so hypocritical when you consider what Nene Leakes did to a cameraman, and there were not only zero negative repercussions,  but she even got a fucking raise.

Nene violently attacked a man in a fit of rage, ripped his shirt, grabbed and shoved him around, everyone saw it on the show.  No question whether she did it or not, and yet she has felt no heat from it whatsoever.  She went on WWHL and said out loud that she had no regrets about it because she considers herself the victim in that situation, and Andy didn’t correct her ass like he should have. I don’t appreciate the double standard, and when it comes down to which was worse, in my opinion what Nene did was by far the worst of the two. Michael likes to grab men’s butts, Nene likes to drag people around with her bare hands (let us not forget the allegation that she also manhandled someone else on another occasion but she said “show me the footage” with a smirk and a gleam in her eye because she knew it wasn’t caught on video).  

I was sexually abused as a child, and have some permanent sensitivities because of it, but I don’t equate butt grabbing to rape.  I feel like Karen is reaching there, and never misses an opportunity to remind everyone that she was raped. I’m sorry that happened to her, but I also think it’s important to not use an awful experience like that to get attention, and that’s all I ever see with Karen.

Another example of that with Karen is how she has dragged out the mourning period for her parents.  It’s ok to grieve, it takes as long as it takes, we all do it differently. I’ve lost both of my parents too, I get it.  But she didn’t lose them at a young age, she lost them at a time when people sort of expect to lose their elderly parents.  It’s sad, but it’s not a tragedy, when someone lives a long, full life and dies of old age.  It’s hard, but you’re not really an orphan with no mommy and daddy when you are in your mid 50’s.  I had the same problem with Vicki Gunvalson going on and on about WHAT ABOUT MEEEE? WHAT AM I GOING TO DO NOW???? when her mom died at 80-something.  These women were raised deep into adulthood by their parents, and then act like it’s so unfair that their parents were snatched from them before they were ready to face life.  Please stop dredging it up for pity, and in Karen’s case, also using it as a segway to try to turn your daughter into the next singing sensation. 

[Anonysaurus]

Before Gizelle made that comment about Monique's cameras, saying control freak Monique didn't have them on? Lies I had not even thought of that. And then afterward I was like . . . oh yeah. So Monique is saying the cameras weren't on but I would imagine they were and just didn't show anything. Otherwise wouldn't she be called in as a witness, like Chris B was?

[watcherwoman]

Ashley had no real reaction to Michael groping another man.  She clearly doesn't like her husband and she probably got pregnant using a turkey baster because he's so repulsive,  and there ain't enough booze to touch that.  He gave in and knocked her up because the baby makes him look straight and Ashley holds all the secrets.  That's how I see things, lol.

[Boofish]

I actually think of all the housewives Robyn is the one I would be friends with IRL. She really does seem like she has a sweet quiet nature about her .. yes she is flawed but who among us is not. She always come off as looking sneaky when she is around Gizzelle because Gizzelle is the type of person who only finds joy if someone is being hurt or humiliated. I don't even care that she loves a man who clearly just likes her a whole lot - it's sad to watch but don't make her a bad person.

[Baltimore Betty]

What the hell happened to Katie? Here wigs and clothes are making her look terrible, is she living in her car?  She has looked desheveled in every scene, like she gets dressed without a mirror.  Seriously, is this a cry for help?

[ButterQueen]

Where was the food at the party?

[tiredofwork]

Quote

I don't. Mainly because I don't think Robyn would be quite so nonchalant and giggly about it if Michael had been talking about her glorified roommate Juan. Nor would Juan. IMHO.

See, I think that both Juan and Robyn are shady/desperate people and I do believe Juan is sucking up to Mr. "businessman, developer,"  person Michael either for a loan or investment in this house flipping  venture..  I believe a little male attention from Juan and tolerance from Robyn is calculated towards some of Michael's capital.

Edited July 29, 2019 by tiredofwork

[drivethroo]

47 minutes ago, tiredofwork said:

See, I think that both Juan and Robyn are shady/desperate people and I do believe Juan is sucking up to Mr. "businessman, developer,"  person Michael either for a loan or investment in this house flipping  venture..  I believe a little male attention from Juan and tolerance from Robyn is calculated towards some of Michael's capital.

Juan isn't a partner in Robyn's house flipping venture.  The venture is between Robyn and her mom.

1 hour ago, ButterQueen said:

Where was the food at the party?

Chris & Monique had a sit down dinner at the baby shower.  I assume Juan had food at his haunted house party too because there was a cake.

[Irritable]

Granted, I don’t watch this franchise with both eyes like I do RHoNY, but where was Juan’s actual party? It looked like everyone showed up to an outdoor haunted attraction that was open to the public ...  did they eventually go to a private, rented area for the cake, food and drinks? I’d be pretty let down to be invited to some Halloween attraction called a party after the high class as hell party at Monique’s. I know Robyn and Juan have a lower budget, but this is still supposed to be The Real Housewives of... and we the viewers are accustomed to a certain level of party porn that I’m not sure we should have to give up.  Is Robyn’s birthday party going to be over at the picnic tables at the State Fair?

[trimthatfat]

I absolutely believe that Michael touched the cameraman inappropriately. The “don’t do that” three times sealed the deal for me. Imagine if a woman had said that - most would assume something inappropriate happened even without video.

And the way Michael scurried over to Ashley and the slightly confused look she gave him tells me that she knew he probably did something stupid, she just wasn’t sure what. Ashley knows the man she married. She’ll defend him until she’s blue in the face, but something tells me she knows deep down that Michael is very much capable of touching someone without their consent.

Wasn’t it said the incident originally happened in the basement where the Samuels do not have cameras? And now we find out it happened outdoors. Chris must have cameras on the outside - I wouldn’t believe them if they said otherwise. I’m curious as to what that footage shows. 

[drivethroo]

1 minute ago, trimthatfat said:

Wasn’t it said the incident originally happened in the basement where the Samuels do not have cameras? And now we find out it happened outdoors. Chris must have cameras on the outside - I wouldn’t believe them if they said otherwise. I’m curious as to what that footage shows. 

The cast members claim it happened in the basement where there are no cameras.  The Montgomery County police report says otherwise.  The cameraman stated in the police report that as he and Michael were coming from inside of the house onto the patio, Michael touched his butt inappropriately and gave him a flirtatious look. Camera B showed them coming from inside of the house onto the patio, Michael walking in front of/past the cameraman and the cameraman saying "Don't do that, please don't do that" as Michael giggled.

BRAVO "knows" Michael paid the cameraman & supervisor off.  That's why Michael & Ashley are getting a shitty edit this season.

[NowVoyager]

I've watched Cameraman B's "unseen" footage several times & I believe it supports the accusations made against Michael. The tone of that man's voice when he said three times: "Don't do that. Please don't do that. Don't do that." I believe him. The camera swings around wildly, Michael is a blur. We know it's him because of the pale skin, black top, white pants & his voice. There wasn't time for the cameraman to formulate a plan to target, falsely accuse &/or extort Michael. He said the first "Don't do that" before he even knew who it was. The immediate area, the vestibule between the outdoor patio & the house wasn't crowded. A simple "excuse me" or tap on the shoulder would have sufficed if the cameraman was blocking Michael's egress. Cameraman B then turns & walks into the house, when he was originally filming the ladies on the patio.  

Plus, Michael looks shifty & shady as hell, in the immediate aftermath, the news interview & talking with his wife Ashley about it. I heard the cameraman walked off the job soon after. I think he was paid off. Being out of work & hiring an attorney, I can understand why he would take the deal.

[Neurochick]

21 hours ago, breezy424 said:

The unseen footage really doesn't show what happened.  I do know that Candy, Gizelle, Karen and Robyn have been salivating on going for Michael.  It's a bit much for me. 

Really?  Sorry Karen,  I like your daughter but she's really not a singer.

Preview for next week... Sure Candy, you can afford that house.  Not.

I side eyed the entire episode.  The cameraman is part of production.  I have watched many YouTube videos from people who were on reality shows who said that if you're not good with production, they'll give you a bad edit.  So, of course everybody had to be on the cameraman's side. 

I didn't see anything.  All I heard was the cameraman say, "don't do that" but I don't know what "that" was.  Later though, Michael said, "I didn't grab your ass."  I have no idea if Michael grabbed his ass or if the cameraman was hoping to get a little $$$ from him.  I have had my ass grabbed plenty of times when I was younger and it really makes you feel very small.  I think the cameraman didn't pursue thing because it was a he said/he said thing.  I just wonder what happened to the cameraman, and if he is still working on the show.

Edited July 29, 2019 by Neurochick

[jmcd44]

2 hours ago, Irritable said:

Granted, I don’t watch this franchise with both eyes like I do RHoNY, but where was Juan’s actual party?

It’s called Markoff’s Haunted Forest (https://www.markoffshauntedforest.com/). It’s actually really fun but I’m not sure I would want my 40th bday party there (& I just had mine-at a bar). Some of my friends went on the haunted hay ride after the trail & we just sat around the bonfire with a bunch of kids running around. They obviously got a private event space because I couldn’t buy alcohol anywhere. And I looked. Walking in the woods with clowns hiding is hard without a little whisky.