Book vs. Series: On The Shelf

[Mirabelle]

Eloise is actually the last to find out Penelope is LW - her book kicks off on the night LW's identity is revealed and she misses the announcement. Her brothers (mostly Colin) are very amused by that because they're a bit mad at her in the fifth book.

[Umbelina]

In general I think I kind of like that Marina was introduced early, gives more oomph to the eventual story of Eloise's marriage, and understanding about why his wife was so depressed.  I think it will work well, and at least they appear to be planning ahead for the series.

[BlackberryJam]

Making Marina more than just Phillip and the twins memory does give the story more, but it may also make Phillip come off as more callus. He didn’t really love her, so his ability to move on is one thing. But if viewers are invested in Marina as a character with her own story, it may come off as pretty heartless. 

[methodwriter85]

1 hour ago, BlackberryJam said:

Making Marina more than just Phillip and the twins memory does give the story more, but it may also make Phillip come off as more callus. He didn’t really love her, so his ability to move on is one thing. But if viewers are invested in Marina as a character with her own story, it may come off as pretty heartless. 

Maybe they could have her abandon the kids and her husband and run off instead. It'd accomplish the same goal without all the icky Tragic Mulatto stereotypes.

Edited February 21, 2021 by methodwriter85

[bijoux]

3 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

Maybe they could have her abandon the kids and her husband and run off instead. It'd accomplish the same goal without all the icky Tragic Mulatto stereotypes.

Except for the part about Philip being able to marry Eloise. 

[peachmangosteen]

I really hope they go in a different direction with Eloise. Her marrying Phillip would feel like a very meh ending for her based on how she comes across on the show imo.

[Ailianna]

12 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

Maybe they could have her abandon the kids and her husband and run off instead. It'd accomplish the same goal without all the icky Tragic Mulatto stereotypes.

I don't think that's a better end to her story though. Abandoning her children is awful. Especially if we are invested in her and want a good happy ending. And I for one like her and feel bad for her so far. But that would change if she abandoned her children.

Edited February 21, 2021 by Ailianna

[BlackberryJam]

13 minutes ago, Ailianna said:

I don't think that's a better end to get story though. Abandoning her children is awful. Especially if we are invested in her and want a good happy ending. And I for one like her and feel bad for her so far. But that would change if she abandoned her children.

The story with Phillip and the children isn’t Marina’s story. It’s Eloise’s. Hate to be basic here, but the show is “Bridgerton” and about the 8 Bridgerton siblings and their love interests. All the other characters are supporting and propelling those relationships forward. 

Perhaps the show’s failing is that it created a plot-mover side character that some people found more compelling than the mains. 

[Umbelina]

I think a story of post partum depression is much more interesting and sympathetic than Marina just being upset that her life didn't go as she planned.

Either way, it's depression, I don't know why people who like Marina would dislike her just because she was ill.  Options to help her back then were pretty limited/scary.  

However I don't think the story should be changed in any significant way from the books, of course there will be changes here and there.  Marina living happily ever after is not in the cards though.

[Ailianna]

I think her depression and mental health issues are interesting and even sympathetic. Leaving her children through suicide is tragic and horrible but walking away from them is worse in my opinion. Granted, there are essentially no mental health treatments at that time, beyond drug addiction which is not useful, but I'd still think if they wrote her into the story, they chose to make her a main character (no matter the series title, they chose to write this story which is not a book story)--I hope they write something more for her than just watching depression take her and her family down until she kills herself.

[BlackberryJam]

Whatever happens with Marina, I think it’s likely to happen offscreen. That’s what happens in the books. And a drawn out story about untreated mental health issues doesn’t really match the tone of the show, which is sex and romance.

[peachmangosteen]

2 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

Whatever happens with Marina, I think it’s likely to happen offscreen. That’s what happens in the books. 

Yea, but her story in the show is already vastly different than the books so I think it seems clear these writers aren't going to follow the books completely all the time.

2 hours ago, Ailianna said:

..  I'd still think if they wrote her into the story, they chose to make her a main character (no matter the series title, they chose to write this story which is not a book story)--I hope they write something more for her than just watching depression take her and her family down until she kills herself.

This. I don't see why they'd take a bit character from the book, make her a main character, and cast her with a non-white actress, just to follow the shitty, brief story she has in the books. It wouldn't make any sense imo.

[ouinason]

She can also die in some other tragic way instead of suicide.  Childbirth, accident, illness.

[magdalene]

This series is about the Bridgertons and their love interests, yes?  Personally I would have preferred not to have gotten to know Marina.  It seems like a misstep  to have made her more than a heard about character.  It's going to make Eloise's love story a real downer and take my enjoyment away.

However, I found out that one of my friends loves "The Viscount Who Loved Me", and she has good taste,  which makes me rather excited for the second season.

[Umbelina]

On 2/21/2021 at 4:01 PM, ouinason said:

She can also die in some other tragic way instead of suicide.  Childbirth, accident, illness.

On reflection, and in making a post just now in the Lady Whistledown thread, I think the show already has shown the beginnings of Marina's madness and magical thinking, not to mention self absorption and entitlement.

Aside from everything else, I'd love to see the actress again, and it would be a far meatier role for her if she got to portray that madness increasing, perhaps post partum depression increasing her tendencies in that direction.

Quoting myself from that thread.  

Perhaps Marina was already in the early or hidden stages of "crazy."  She was acting irrationally, and completely selfishly already.  She turned on her only friend, heartlessly mocking her.  She tried to abort the child.  She focused in on Colin to remind her of the time when she was the most desirable in the Ton, somehow thinking some magical thoughts that Colin wouldn't notice when she had a baby in 4-5 months, or her charm would make him not care that he'd been used and lied to, and not loved by her?  She was acting irrationally already. 

Of course, this may not happen, but if it does, I'd assume it would be a story inserted in here and there in episodes before Eloise actually arrives on the scene for her story.

Either way, madness is much more fun for any actress to play.  

Edited February 24, 2021 by Umbelina
cut out the Sir Phillip line

[eleanorofaquitaine]

Yeah, as I just said in that other thread that I had a similar thought. I think it is possible that they did enough with the Marina plot line to set in motion the idea that all is not entirely right with Marina when it comes to her mental health. 

[Umbelina]

4 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

Yeah, as I just said in that other thread that I had a similar thought. I think it is possible that they did enough with the Marina plot line to set in motion the idea that all is not entirely right with Marina when it comes to her mental health. 

Yes, and it would be a way to keep the actress on screen as well.  Since she's long dead by the time Eloise actually meets Sir Phillip, Marina's story might play out in other seasons.  

Maybe not though, next season is jam packed, not much room to add in Marina's story, but they may dribble it through several seasons.  Showing her arrive, perhaps marry him in season 2, then more in other seasons, so by the time Eloise shows up he's been a widow for a while.  

That said, it does make a certain kind of sense for Eloise to write to him after Marina's death, a condolence note, so their correspondence might also be shown in dribbles through the other stories?

[BlackberryJam]

Maybe Phillip's correspondence with Eloise starts with him trying to find a way to delicately ask about Marina? ...Does he even know Eloise though? Maybe she and Penelope write to Marina? 

[Umbelina]

47 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

Maybe Phillip's correspondence with Eloise starts with him trying to find a way to delicately ask about Marina? ...Does he even know Eloise though? Maybe she and Penelope write to Marina? 

Good point.  Eloise apparently loves to write and receive letters, and she would certainly know of Marina through seeing her at balls, and Pen, and Marina eclipsing Daphne because Anthony interfered so much.

 Perhaps when she read or heard of Marina's death, she wrote a condolence note to Sir Phillip and began their correspondence that way?  Otherwise, why introduce her at all?  

Although I do think Marina's story and death will be much more compelling having already known and sympathized with her.

It makes more sense than the books though, I honestly can't even remember why Eloise was writing to him.  Anyone else remember?

Edited February 24, 2021 by Umbelina

[eleanorofaquitaine]

I think because Marina is her cousin in the book, not a friend of the Featheringtons?  It's been a while since I've read it, so I would have to go back and check. 

[Umbelina]

4 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

I think because Marina is her cousin in the book, not a friend of the Featheringtons?  It's been a while since I've read it, so I would have to go back and check. 

I thought she was Pen's cousin on the show.  

I can't remember either!  Ha.

[Umbelina]

https://www.insider.com/real-ages-bridgerton-cast-versus-characters-2021-1#phoebe-dynevor-is-25-2  

Not sure where else I should put this link, since it discusses ages of the characters and the actors portraying them, but also the book and the show.  Interesting though.  Colin is 22.

[Mirabelle]

5 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I thought she was Pen's cousin on the show.  

I can't remember either!  Ha.

Marina is a distant cousin of Eloise in the books. That was changed to being a distant cousin of the Featherington's on the show. I assume it was to give Lady Featherington a beefier storyline and to give Colin a backstory that was more compelling than rich, happy, and well-liked man dissatisfied with being rich, happy, and well-liked.

[Ailianna]

In the book, Marina is a Bridgerton cousin whom Eloise knew as a child. When she learns of her cousin's death, she writes a letter of condolence and is surprised when he writes back. And thus it began.

[ouinason]

I think that the level of "knowing" Marina is similar enough that Eloise would feel compelled to write a letter to Philip in condolence if she were to die and have things play out basically the same.

[peachmangosteen]

I agree, but I continue to really hope they go a different way in the show.

[Umbelina]

I have wondered if Mr. F had willed the house to Marina's father, so he is the one who will "inherit."  It seemed Mr. F owed him money, so it could work.

Other than that, I'm trying to think of someone who would fit in with future stories being moved closer to the Bridgetons.

Any ideas?

[Mirabelle]

Maybe Francesca's future family? In terms of drama, it would be better if we actually got to know her first husband instead of the 10 pages he got in her book.  The show can present them as childhood sweethearts. 

[Slakkie]

I am listening to the official Bridgerton podcast and the topic on this one was the Marriage Mart and I based on the conversations they had I am wondering if they will change Sophie Becket from a maid to Madame Delacroix.  It would be great because I love the actress and it also is already almost set up right now.  They mentioned that they were trying to add more depth to some of the characters and while it would change things a bit I think it could be a great direction.

[Ailianna]

I think it would kill the whole story if Sophie were already a prostitute. Her whole reason for rejecting Benedict was her history of being a bastard and feeling like she belonged nowhere and her unwillingness to risk passing that on to her own children. If she's already fine with getting down outside marriage, her history, personality and ethical stance are erased. And that then changed Benedict's story from being about what he wants to learning to see her viewpoint and respect her needs. If she's already a prostitute then she would say yes to being his mistress and the story ends when he married miss socially acceptable.

They already did that dilemma with Anthony and Sierra so to do it again while hurting the Sophie/Benedict story seems wasteful, unimaginative and basically why bother using that book at that point.

[Slakkie]

11 hours ago, Ailianna said:

I think it would kill the whole story if Sophie were already a prostitute. Her whole reason for rejecting Benedict was her history of being a bastard and feeling like she belonged nowhere and her unwillingness to risk passing that on to her own children. If she's already fine with getting down outside marriage, her history, personality and ethical stance are erased. And that then changed Benedict's story from being about what he wants to learning to see her viewpoint and respect her needs. If she's already a prostitute then she would say yes to being his mistress and the story ends when he married miss socially acceptable.

They already did that dilemma with Anthony and Sierra so to do it again while hurting the Sophie/Benedict story seems wasteful, unimaginative and basically why bother using that book at that point.

Ugh I had forgotten about that but if you listened to the podcast it seemed like they wanted to make these characters more upfront.  Madame Delacroix is a business woman not a prostitute so it could possibly still happen.  I guess it will depend on how close they want to stay to the truth of the books or not.

[ouinason]

Madame D is already screwing around with Benedict, so unless they backtrack in time to tell that story, it doesn't work at all.

 

It would be interesting, and I like the actress, but it doesn't really work with the book at all.

[bijoux]

She's not a prostitute. She was just having an affair with Benedict. We had no indication of money or any other form of compensation exchanging hands. 

[Ailianna]

The money or lack thereof is really irrelevant. Sophie's objection was to sex out of marriage, not payment. It was about the bastardy she loves through and her determination not to inflict that on her own children. Not even societal norms but very practical consideration for her children.

[scarynikki12]

Unless the plan is to completely overhaul Sophie's part of the story I can't see Madame Delacroix being anything more than Benedict's former mistress. A huge part of Sophie's story is that she's poor, steals from Araminta when she runs away, and then the threat of discovery and arrest haunts her as she looks for work. Madame Delacroix is the most sought after modiste for the ton which includes Araminta and her daughters. If Madame D is meant to be Sophie then she'd already have been discovered. Until we see otherwise I believe the show will stick to each book as closely as possible.

[Atlanta]

3 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

Unless the plan is to completely overhaul Sophie's part of the story I can't see Madame Delacroix being anything more than Benedict's former mistress. A huge part of Sophie's story is that she's poor, steals from Araminta when she runs away, and then the threat of discovery and arrest haunts her as she looks for work. Madame Delacroix is the most sought after modiste for the ton which includes Araminta and her daughters. If Madame D is meant to be Sophie then she'd already have been discovered. Until we see otherwise I believe the show will stick to each book as closely as possible.

Agree. Can't see how they could work that. I like the actress who plays her and I'd love to see her again next season, but can't see her being worked in as Sophie.

[Jane Tuesday]

Plus, doesn't Benedict first see/meet Sophie at a ball, loses track of her, and then looks for her for two years? And then he meets a maid, and can't understand why he's equally attracted to her as he was the girl from the ball? (I haven't read it.)

He already knows Madame DLC. So the whole "Cinderella" thing wouldn't work.

I liked the actress, and I loved that they included some "middle class" people. But I'd prefer she gets her own side story. 

Edited March 8, 2021 by Jane Tuesday

[bijoux]

7 hours ago, Jane Tuesday said:

lus, doesn't Benedict first see/meet Sophie at a ball, loses track of her, and then looks for her for two years? And then he meets a maid, and can't understand why he's equally attracted to her as he was the girl from the ball? (I haven't read it.)

He already knows Madame DLC. So the whole "Cinderella" thing wouldn't work.

From what I skimmed looking for other information, that's the gist of the story.

I wasn't saying that Genevive would be a stand in for Sophie, just pointing out that it's erroneous to say she's a prostitute on the show. If they decided to have her as Benedict's main love interest, they'd have to change the outline of the story completely, so I very much doubt that will come to be.

[iwantcookies]

I’m reading book 1 and it’s very different from the tv show. 

[bijoux]

Anthony and Kate with an assist from Colin, a summary.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CL2Tsa-AQxA/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet

https://www.instagram.com/p/CMJ9NKojiNH/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet

 

[Slakkie]

On 3/8/2021 at 3:05 PM, bijoux said:

From what I skimmed looking for other information, that's the gist of the story.

I wasn't saying that Genevive would be a stand in for Sophie, just pointing out that it's erroneous to say she's a prostitute on the show. If they decided to have her as Benedict's main love interest, they'd have to change the outline of the story completely, so I very much doubt that will come to be.

Right but the book actually spans years so they will either need for him to meet her years ago and somehow make the viewers believe he was pining the entire time of Season 1 or they are going to have to shift things around.  The books had the ability to have years pass - not sure that they will be able to in this universe.  Especially with the younger actors they will have to SORAS some of the kids in the middle of the season

[bijoux]

I don't think time jumps between seasons would be hard to do at all. 

[Callietwo]

I'm having a difficult time getting excited for season 2 because they made Anthony an outright asshole in season 1 (starting with his screwing someone  (a maid?) up against the tree.   

Then his behavior with Daphne and her suitors, and with Sienna.  None of that matches up with Book-Anthony.  I hated Show-Anthony but really liked the book version a lot.  

[peachmangosteen]

1 hour ago, Callietwo said:

I'm having a difficult time getting excited for season 2 because they made Anthony an outright asshole in season 1 (starting with his screwing someone  (a maid?) up against the tree.   

I thought that was Sienna lol. 

[roseslg]

5 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I thought that was Sienna lol. 

It was. 

[gutbuster]

Anthony is my absolute favorite character from the books, so I wasn't crazy about what they did with him in the show. But despite hating the Sienna storyline, which was pretty much all of Anthony's storyline, and making him do a shit ton of things book Anthony would never do, I was still invested in him throughout and at the end of the season. I think the actor was one of the better ones, for both practical and shallow reasons. So I don't think all hope is lost yet. At least I hope not. Going forward I think they intend to keep the bones of each pairing's story the same as the books, so it does make me wonder how they are going to approach his and Kate's story in season 2.

 Someone in one of the episode threads made the observation that the depiction of Anthony's relationship with his mistress might cheapen his supposed-to-eventually-be-love-match with Kate. I think it's valid. It seemed like the show wanted us to believe that he was very in love with Sienna. Either that or he was just borderline obsessed with and fixated on her. Neither of which is a good look when trying to sell his true love with someone else. I mean he had ZERO discretion or control when it came to Sienna. He blocked everyone else out and openly stared and mooned at her at public gatherings, had sex with her in public multiple times, and then they had him look surprised that his mother knew about his relationship with Sienna when Violet mentioned it to him. He came across like an impulsive unaware idiot with zero self control. I hated it. 

I really hated that when faced with the possibility of his death at the duel his primary concern seemed to be that Sienna was taken care of. Any concern for his siblings' and mother's well-being, and his family/father's legacy seemed to be an afterthought. Benedict's look of pure terror and distress when Anthony tells him that Benedict would have to head the family now, didn't seem to give Anthony pause at all. I hated it. 

I think Anthony in his book and in S1 is too old for them to write off his relationship with Sienna as infatuation, or a something that he thought was love but really wasn't. At least if they try to have the show character resemble the Anthony portrayed in the books. So I suppose they'll adjust his hang-up from not wanting to fall in love to not wanting to fall in love 'again' and that kind of sucks. I really don't want a love-triangle type situation. I really don't need to see Sienna ever again. I don't need to see Anthony chasing after Edwina, while pining away for what he lost with Sienna, while they shoehorn a love story with Kate in there too. That's way to ambitious for the people writing this show. Now that I'm actually writing it out, I suppose I don't have very high hopes that they won't make Anthony look like a total self-centered dick and I'm a little sad already. I'm determined to be optimistic though!

What I love about him was the thing that most people called him out for being an asshole for. In the show when a man would politely approach Daphne and Anthony immediately lists every crap thing about the guy I cackled with glee. Both in the books and in this show I LOVED it whenever he shut down people who in his eyes (or who actually) weren't good enough for his sister(s), or who he believed had wronged one of his sisters or threatened them or their honor as it were. I loved it whenever he popped up out of nowhere (like when Simon and Daphne are in the garden) or burst into someone's house uninvited, proverbial guns blazing, in defense of his sister's honor. I think Anthony works from a place of responsibility and honor, but he's also very protective of and devoted to his family, his place in it, and his father's memory. I'm disappointed that the show gave people reason to think he is or was being a selfish controlling asshole trying to make decisions for his siblings that might result in their unhappiness (outside of what he'd feel required to force to avoid a ruination. And even then, after the situation he found Eloise and Phillip in, he wasn't going to force her to marry Phillip if she could honestly say that Phillip would be in any way abusive to her). In the books he allows his sisters to refuse proposals to men they  didn't want.

I know everyone is excited for Pall Mall, and I think there is literally zero chance it won't be included. But my big wish is that they cast Edmund and we get to see flashbacks. Edmund! I tend to get attached to dead characters in books that are frequently and lovingly remembered by those left behind. I get way too invested and felt so sad for him and all of the things he missed out on. I hope they show the things Anthony and Violet remembered about Edmund through flashbacks and memories. Edmund obviously was very influential to Anthony and impacted his choices in the story so I hope they include him. 

I don't have high hopes for that though, sadly. 

 

[scarynikki12]

They could just never mention Siena again. She dumped him pretty firmly last season so it would make sense if they just didn't bring her back. Or they could do that thing shows do where Sienna has lost her current benefactor, decides to return to Anthony since he's better than poverty, and he maybe gives her some cash before sending her on her way as he no longer has feelings.

I agree they went too hard with regard to Anthony and Siena. If you didn't know the details of his book you'd be forgiven for assuming they might end up together. I suspect his feelings for Kate will be framed as true love instead of territorial obsession but it may still confuse non-book readers.

On the other hand the Anthony of Book 1 is not someone I'd want to root for while I was all in on Anthony's relationship with Kate so maybe a simple change in tone will be enough.

[Callietwo]

I just finished Francesca's book (When he was Wicked).  It is my favorite book thus far & I hope they get that far on the show.  I do wonder if they'll accelerate the story by combining books.    Pretty much all of Eloise's story and most of Francesca's take place away from London & away from family and are pretty isolated unto themselves.  

I actually hate Eloise's story.  Philip is a blustery fellow for "reasons" and I didn't find him or his story compelling at all.  I particularly don't see him as Eloise's grand love.  Maybe they'll change it enough, considering they stole part of his story and twisted it to fit into season 1.   And since they effed up Anthony in season 1, I don't really care much about his grand love of Kate at the moment.

I'm really hoping they fix show- Anthony and also fix book-Philip so they're both better, more interesting characters.  

[iwantcookies]

I’m on book 3. It’s okay. Typical romance novel series. 
 

 

On 3/10/2021 at 4:58 PM, Callietwo said:

I'm having a difficult time getting excited for season 2 because they made Anthony an outright asshole in season 1 (starting with his screwing someone  (a maid?) up against the tree.   

Then his behavior with Daphne and her suitors, and with Sienna.  None of that matches up with Book-Anthony.  I hated Show-Anthony but really liked the book version a lot.  

The book is complete different! No Queen, no Sienna, no Prince, lord Burbeook was a minor character in the book etc. 

[methodwriter85]

Julia Cudney on the book series:

Wow, Phillip sounds like a dick and I don't want him with Eloise if that's where they're going with his character. I don't know what Book Eloise is like, but the thought of Show Eloise ending up a glorified Nanny to two orphaned kids to an awful guy is depressing.

Also, they cast Edwina. I'm really surprised they didn't cast her that much lighter than Kate. It also looks like they're creating a new role that wasn't in the books?