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Book vs. Series: On The Shelf

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1 hour ago, bijoux said:

I think she included all future possible children. There's no way Portia could have known how many babies Marina was carrying. 

Marina had already given birth.

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Yeah, she hadn't given birth at the end of the season. She tried to induce a miscarriage, which didn't work, so she realized her best option was to marry Philip.  She didn't have the child yet and no one has no way of knowing by the end of the season if she has more than one child or what the sex of the child she is carrying is. 

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5 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

Understood. My hopes aren't up or down. 🙂 But it does make sense for the era. 

It makes more sense than sticking to the book where Edwina is the blonde beauty, and Kate the "ugly" brunette.  Casting two actress of color where Kate is darker than Edwina makes the same point while also going much further.  

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38 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

It makes more sense than sticking to the book where Edwina is the blonde beauty, and Kate the "ugly" brunette.  Casting two actress of color where Kate is darker than Edwina makes the same point while also going much further.  

I don't think Kate is supposed to be ugly or "ugly" because she's a brunette. Just that Edwina is so incredibly beautiful that she makes Kate look plainer than she really is and people don't really notice her because they're looking at the Incomparable. Along with Kate being taller and less inclined to do the mincing and swooning. Anthony even comments on it to himself at one point. 

However it could be interesting to explore Indian and British colourism with the girls. 

58 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

ETA: In terms of Daphne and Simon, I don't think that a plot involving them necessarily means having their marriage in trouble or anything. I kind of would like to see more of Daphne and Simon becoming good landowners and helping out their tenants and such, but I realize that not everyone finds that kind of minutiae all that interesting. 🙂 But yes, I can imagine that they'll develop some actual plot line around their parenthood, etc. 

Downton had a lot of long running plots to do with the running of the estate, some more interesting than others. I find it quite interesting and they could tie it into Simon's feelings about being a Duke and his family and legacy. It really depends how much time they're willing to devote to them outside of London and outside of the big house party at Aubrey Hall.

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1 minute ago, Featherhat said:

I don't think Kate is supposed to be ugly or "ugly" because she's a brunette. Just that Edwina is so incredibly beautiful that she makes Kate look plainer than she really is and people don't really notice her because they're looking at the Incomparable. Along with Kate being taller and less inclined to do the mincing and swooning. Anthony even comments on it to himself at one point. 

However it could be interesting to explore Indian and British colourism with the girls. 

Downton had a lot of long running plots to do with the running of the estate, some more interesting than others. I find it quite interesting and they could tie it into Simon's feelings about being a Duke and his family and legacy. It really depends how much time they're willing to devote to them outside of London and outside of the big house party at Aubrey Hall.

Yeah, I was going to make a similar point. And of course, the other part of that is that for Edwina, because she is so beautiful, there is a lot of pressure on her to make a good match that will ease the financial pressure on all of them, including Kate and Mary. And she knows that she has to put aside her own more intellectual interests in order to help the family because she's so beautiful. I hope that they keep all of those elements in because they made the family dynamic among Kate, Edwina, and Mary really interesting - and I expect they can do all of that while also exploring colorism (if they so choose, of course).

I would find the idea of Simon coming to terms with what it means to be a Duke, especially in contrast to the legacy his father left him, very interesting, but I guess we'll see what direction they go in. 

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3 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

I don't think Kate is supposed to be ugly or "ugly" because she's a brunette. Just that Edwina is so incredibly beautiful that she makes Kate look plainer than she really is and people don't really notice her because they're looking at the Incomparable. Along with Kate being taller and less inclined to do the mincing and swooning. Anthony even comments on it to himself at one point. 

However it could be interesting to explore Indian and British colourism with the girls. 

 

I just read the second a couple of weeks ago, and the 90s historical beauty ideals run rampant in it.  I get that when Kate is standing beside Edwina she looks plainer because Edwina is soo beautiful, etc, that's why I put ugly in quotes.  Kate is written to be undesirable to men, that's the whole point of the book.  The whole blonde vs. brunette, tall vs. short, curvy vs. flat that exists in the book is very dated.  Romance novels have moved past that, and having the superficial differences between Kate and Edwina being weightier is called for now.  

Don't get me wrong, I thoroughly enjoyed the book, but it is dated.

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Well, sure, it's almost 20 years old, so I would expect it to be dated. Though, to be fair, the idea of a "plain" sister being the main heroine in a romance novel is still pretty common - Sarah MacLean has more than one book where the main female character is plain but has enough of a personality to catch the interest of the hero.  I suspect that is always going to be a popular trope in romance because I feel like most women have felt like "the plain one" at some point in their lives.

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15 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

Well, sure, it's almost 20 years old, so I would expect it to be dated. Though, to be fair, the idea of a "plain" sister being the main heroine in a romance novel is still pretty common - Sarah MacLean has more than one book where the main female character is plain but has enough of a personality to catch the interest of the hero.  I suspect that is always going to be a popular trope in romance because I feel like most women have felt like "the plain one" at some point in their lives.

Yes, romance will always have plain or average looking heroines.  Heroine who is only beautiful in the eyes of her hero is a standard trope.  Hero discovering that this previously depicted plain woman is now beautiful is code for him falling in love with her.  What changes over time is the definitions of plain and beautiful.  

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The trope in romance is usually (but not always) a sort of homage of The Taming of The Shrew.  The younger sister is always super beautiful and the ideal.  But she is usually just that -- pretty.  And sometimes not that bright.  The older sister who is considered 'plain' by comparison is usually smarter, sharper, wittier, and engages the hero's interest whereas the prettier sister is just boring.  It is her intelligence and wit that captures him.  And given that Anthony's heroine's name is Kate, I think Quinn was somewhat explicitly referencing The Taming of the Shrew.

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I wouldn't be surprised if she was paying homage to The Taming of the Shrew, though in the book, Edwina is more than just a pretty face, so it isn't quite a one-to-one correspondence. Edwina is witty and intelligent in her own right, and IIRC Kate would have been fine to be the one to marry to secure the family financially, but she just didn't have any luck in the marriage mart. 

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22 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

I wouldn't be surprised if she was paying homage to The Taming of the Shrew, though in the book, Edwina is more than just a pretty face, so it isn't quite a one-to-one correspondence. Edwina is witty and intelligent in her own right, and IIRC Kate would have been fine to be the one to marry to secure the family financially, but she just didn't have any luck in the marriage mart. 

Kate waited to have her debut because of money.  The family as a whole decided that Edwina was their best bet for marrying rich and promoted her.  They could only afford one season in London and planned accordingly.  I do love the Sheffield family dynamic and how it sheds light into the precarious life women had.  One of the girls had to marry well.  

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Oh right, I had forgotten they had delayed her coming out. But the larger point still stands - Kate wasn't opposed to being the one on the marriage mart. It's a little different than the dynamic of Katherine and her sister in The Taming of the Shrew, which was a lot more contentious.  I do hope we get to see a little more of Edwina in the series - I liked her as a character but she gets pushed to the side a bit (for good reason). It would be nice to see her romance with her scholar guy. 

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34 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

Oh right, I had forgotten they had delayed her coming out. But the larger point still stands - Kate wasn't opposed to being the one on the marriage mart. It's a little different than the dynamic of Katherine and her sister in The Taming of the Shrew, which was a lot more contentious.  I do hope we get to see a little more of Edwina in the series - I liked her as a character but she gets pushed to the side a bit (for good reason). It would be nice to see her romance with her scholar guy. 

Yeah, Kate wanted to find a husband after Edwina was settled.  That is one thing that I really enjoyed about the Sheffield family dynamic--both Kate and Edwina were willing to sacrifice for all of them to be comfortable in the future.  I loved how her step-mom kept on reminding Kate that it's alright for her to look right now as well. 

I also want to see more of Edwina and her scholar.  I want to see them meeting and Edwina falling for him while knowing she has Anthony courting her and what that means for the family.  I want to see Edwina's relief as she sees the chemistry between Anthony and Kate.  

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Edwina makes a comment about how she could tell Anthony and Kate were into each other the whole time so I want to see some of that. Just a handful of cuts to her trying not to smile while they’re in denial. The Pall Mall scene in particular should provide plenty of opportunities.

We know Mr. Bagwell was invited to the country house party so adding scenes of him and Edwina shouldn’t be difficult. 

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12 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

Edwina makes a comment about how she could tell Anthony and Kate were into each other the whole time so I want to see some of that. Just a handful of cuts to her trying not to smile while they’re in denial. The Pall Mall scene in particular should provide plenty of opportunities.

We know Mr. Bagwell was invited to the country house party so adding scenes of him and Edwina shouldn’t be difficult. 

Actually getting so see Mr Bagwell the scholar is one of the things I'm hoping for an expecting in S2.

Given the "hate to love" trope so prevalent in romance or "his pride and her prejudice" and how focused they were on each other it's not surprising that Edwina could tell they were into each other. In contrast he's charming and proper but disengaged with her because he feels the need to get married and she's The Diamond this season and that's almost all there is, so she can see the difference. That should be fun. 

13 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Yeah, Kate wanted to find a husband after Edwina was settled.  That is one thing that I really enjoyed about the Sheffield family dynamic--both Kate and Edwina were willing to sacrifice for all of them to be comfortable in the future.  I loved how her step-mom kept on reminding Kate that it's alright for her to look right now as well. 

I also want to see more of Edwina and her scholar.  I want to see them meeting and Edwina falling for him while knowing she has Anthony courting her and what that means for the family.  I want to see Edwina's relief as she sees the chemistry between Anthony and Kate.  

Me too. I loved that whole dynamic. They both wanted to marry and both were willing to sacrifice love/ideal partner so that the rest of the family didn't end up in genteel poverty. Realistic but not hopeless or despairing. Kate just rather thought she'd end up with a local suitable gentleman once Edwina had made the match of the season because her beauty overcame the fact that she didn't have a dowry. 

Showing more of Mr Bagwell at the house party and contrasting him with Anthony for Edwina should almost write itself and I'm really looking forward to it. 

I also like Anthony at one point thinking he'll give Kate a small dowry once he's married Edwina and then later switches it to giving it to Edwina/Mr Bagwell whilst boggling in his own mind at the twists his life has just taken over the last few months. 

The one wild card is how Sienna fits into all of this. 

 

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3 hours ago, Featherhat said:

... 

(1) Given the "hate to love" trope so prevalent in romance or "his pride and her prejudice" and how focused they were on each other it's not surprising that Edwina could tell they were into each other. In contrast he's charming and proper but disengaged with her because he feels the need to get married and she's The Diamond this season and that's almost all there is, so she can see the difference. That should be fun. 

... 

(2)I also like Anthony at one point thinking he'll give Kate a small dowry once he's married Edwina and then later switches it to giving it to Edwina/Mr Bagwell whilst boggling in his own mind at the twists his life has just taken over the last few months. 

(3) The one wild card is how Sienna fits into all of this. 

 

(1) Particularly if you take into account the fact that Edwina was the ultimate bookworm and was tucked away with a book from "that Austen woman" while she was recovering from her cold. She knew. She was probably chomping at the bits to see this scenario happening right before her eyes. 

(2) I wonder who he'll memtion this too. No inner monologue in this format. Could be Daphne during the house party to give her something to do, so she can laugh herself silly when it switches. 

Another thing that's external that I would like to see is Anthony mowing people down to get to Kate at a party ehere they arrived seperately after they were married. After making himself stay out of the house during the day. The putz. 

(3) Hopefully not at all or at the bare minimum. 

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I suspect that Sienna won't be anything but a mention - I think that the whole thing with Sienna this season was a set up for his own story. It's a bit of a shame - I can understand why book Anthony is so afraid of falling in life because as someone who also lost a parent at the age of 18 (also my father but not because of a bee sting), I completely understand Anthony's fear of becoming too attached to someone. I think that the writers/producers wanted to give a little more meat to the bone on why he's so determined to not fall in love, and to have his heart broken a little by a previous relationship does that. But still, I'd have preferred they stick with the original reason because there are all sorts of reasons why people are afraid to become emotionally intimate that aren't about a previous bad romance.

I also think it will be fun if we can see Edwina catching on to the fact that Anthony and Kate are into each other - she's the one who sees their interactions most closely, while the rest of the ton thinks he's courting her, so it's not a surprise that she can see the spark that most everyone else can't. Still, I hope they give the poor woman a little bit of her own story because she deserves it.

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3 hours ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

I suspect that Sienna won't be anything but a mention

I think she'll show up.  I can't imagine the show passing up the opportunity for "jealousy" or Anthony running from his feelings by running back to his former mistress.

Plus, he does have a mistress in the second book.  I thought it was the same woman as in the first book but maybe it's not.  

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He was canoodling with an opera singer in his office (whose name was Maria Rosso) but I can't remember if she was a current mistress or an old flame. I do remember that in either case, he was basically using said person to distract himself from his growing realization that he was, in fact, attracted to Kate (even though at that point, he didn't even really like Kate AND he was courting Edwina. Not his finest moment). 

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Maria was a former mistress and he went after her to run away from his feelings for Kate. He didn't have a mistress at the time of his book. 

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I hope they give Anthony his big hero moment with Penelope. I also want Kate and Penelope being friends because that's how Kate was there to witness it. 

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Audible has a $5 sale that includes several Bridgerton books and some of her connected books.  

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New to the books and since I’m 50th in line for the Duke and I at the library and didn’t want to pay for it, I did shell out the Pen/Colin book since I was curious how their story would be written. I’m amazed at the accuracy of the casting in the series based on the book descriptions. Pen and Eloise’s characters could not be more perfectly casted, as well as the Bridgerton brothers since it was mentioned they all look alike. It took me four episodes to figure out who was who. The actor who plays Colin is very charming. I know the second series will be about Anthony (his book is the next one I’m reading) but I’m curious if the Pen/Colin story will slowly be going on in the background or if season three will be her story along with Eloise’s.

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31 minutes ago, magdalene said:

It is always so funny to see who Hollywood considers suitable to play "plain".  The actor is beautiful.  I am looking forward to season 2.

I’m sure they’ll downplay her looks somewhat when they style her but Kate is only considered plain when compared to Edwina. Anthony makes a note that Edwina’s overwhelming beauty unintentionally diminishes others around her and still finds Kate attractive at first meeting. 

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16 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

I’m sure they’ll downplay her looks somewhat when they style her but Kate is only considered plain when compared to Edwina. Anthony makes a note that Edwina’s overwhelming beauty unintentionally diminishes others around her and still finds Kate attractive at first meeting. 

Right.  It's just that Edwina conforms to the more traditional beauty standards of the time. 

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Great news about the casting. And it also got me thinking that this might be a way to include Simon more next season. If the Basset family's position is as wobbly as Dead Dick of a Duke said, this could be some common ground for him and Kate. Layer on top of that that she's a woman and, presuming they keep this part of the book, lacking the insulation his wealth affords him. 

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Quote

They changed her last name to Sharma. I was wondering if they were going to have Kate be mixed with her late mother being a woman of color while her father, Mary, and Edwina remain white. Not anymore! I wonder who they'll cast to play Edwina Sharma.

They could always have just said Kate's father/grandfather changed his name from Sharma to Sheffield when he moved to England to try and fit in. But I'm absolutely fine with them changing it, I actually used to go to school with a lot of Sharmas, these days its not an uncommon name in the UK. 

IIRC there was a the casting call asked for a biracial Anglo-Indian woman so that might be Edwina and Mary is white. Could be an interesting dynamic if they explore it. I saw her in Sex Education and I'm really excited, this has the makings of a great pairing. Can't wait to see the rest of the Sharmas! They were my favourite family in the book.

4 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

I’m sure they’ll downplay her looks somewhat when they style her but Kate is only considered plain when compared to Edwina. Anthony makes a note that Edwina’s overwhelming beauty unintentionally diminishes others around her and still finds Kate attractive at first meeting. 

Yes Edwina was just so Helen of Troy beautiful that people dismissed or overlooked Kate as "the Incomparable's older sister". Kate herself thinks that whilst she doesn't expect to find a husband in London, she'll find someone in the local version of the Ton ala Pride and Prejudice. There's no real Cinderella moment in the books, although they might play that up in the series. Anthony thinks she's pretty, they keep having "love/hate" interactions and once they HAVE to marry he comes round to thinking she'll be the perfect wife almost immediately. The only snag being his trauma and fears over his father's death. 

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4 hours ago, Featherhat said:

Yes Edwina was just so Helen of Troy beautiful that people dismissed or overlooked Kate as "the Incomparable's older sister". Kate herself thinks that whilst she doesn't expect to find a husband in London, she'll find someone in the local version of the Ton ala Pride and Prejudice. There's no real Cinderella moment in the books, although they might play that up in the series. Anthony thinks she's pretty, they keep having "love/hate" interactions and once they HAVE to marry he comes round to thinking she'll be the perfect wife almost immediately. The only snag being his trauma and fears over his father's death. 

Yes, it's not even that Kate is all that "plain," just that Edwina's beauty is so overwhelming that she pales a bit in comparison. I think that is probably easily achieved with make up and wardrobe. 

Also, what's great about the Kate/Anthony story is that it shows that attraction is often a lot less about physical appearance and more about personality, etc. More than once, Anthony has a difficult time dealing with the fact that he's attracted to Kate, even at points where he doesn't really "like" her. It becomes pretty clear pretty quickly that he likes that she challenges him and also, he likes that she's devoted to her family (like he is). So I'm hopeful they'll explore that dynamic, since they made so much in the first season of Daphne being considered the season's Diamond. 

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Seeing the casting for Kate I'm curious how they can make her not the more stunning of the two sisters.

Edited by Nire
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Easy, racism and colorism. I assume that's why they chose to go this way with the casting in the first place. 

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I wasn't much of a fan of Anthony in season. He was just very meh to me. But I'm really looking forward to season 2 after reading about what his story is like and with the casting of Kate.

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1 hour ago, bijoux said:

Easy, racism and colorism. I assume that's why they chose to go this way with the casting in the first place. 

I'd find it very odd if race was suddenly considered an issue on this show.

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I think the poster meant race regarding the color of Kate’s skin. There is a lot of racism and colorism within India of lighter skinned people looking down on those that are darker, so because Edwina is a half sister, they may cast a lighter skinned Indian actress or biracial actress to show what constitutes as “beauty” to most people. I would be thrilled if they actually addressed it on this show.

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They could very well bring colourism into it but since they didn't make it a big deal in S1 either in relationships or when Marina took over as the diamond from Daphne, I'm not entirely sure they would start to go in depth with it now. It would definitely be interesting though. 

It wouldn't be the first time that film or TV has taken a very beautiful woman and made her a little less beautiful with make up, styling and posture. However, in most Pride and Prejudice adaptations Lizzie is just as pretty as Jane in a different way but Jane's more of a conventional girl. Edwina learns how to play the game immediately and "walk prettily, simper and mince" whilst Kate doesn't. And Kate's already decided that Marina will be the one to marry in London whilst she won't. That attitude can influence opinions. 

That's all supposing they don't change it ala turning Daphne from friendzoned girl next door to Diamond and fall from grace. And before we see who is actually cast as Edwina and Mary. 

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I just think that they either need to switch to colorblind or acknowledge race more fully next season. This season it was sort of in between. It doesn't matter until it does. And it matters until it doesn't. They need to pick a lane and I hope the fact that they cast a darker skinned Indian actress means they chose acknowledgement and exploration of the issue. 

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13 hours ago, twoods said:

I think the poster meant race regarding the color of Kate’s skin. There is a lot of racism and colorism within India of lighter skinned people looking down on those that are darker, so because Edwina is a half sister, they may cast a lighter skinned Indian actress or biracial actress to show what constitutes as “beauty” to most people. I would be thrilled if they actually addressed it on this show.

There's a lot of racism and colorism in lots of different places, including in the U.S. and in Britain. In other words, it's not that there is racism and colorism in India that's the issue - the show isn't set in India, it's set in Regency Britain. It's not that Indian society might find Kate less attractive because she has darker skin, it's that Regency British society (possibly) will. 

I wouldn't be surprised if that isn't at least touched upon but also that they may make her seem a little more dowdy and a little less glamorous through clothes, make up, etc. I don't think that racism and colorism will be a main focus - it seems to me like they want to acknowledge the existence of those things without making them central to these stories. 

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In the book Kate is just less traditionally female.  Edwina is the perfect little delicate thing who dances beautifully.  Kate is tall and dances horribly, she takes big steps instead of delicate ones, her personality is terrifying ect. . . 

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5 minutes ago, meatball77 said:

In the book Kate is just less traditionally female.  Edwina is the perfect little delicate thing who dances beautifully.  Kate is tall and dances horribly, she takes big steps instead of delicate ones, her personality is terrifying ect. . . 

I'm frankly shocked by how many people who've read the book imagine Kate as plain. That's her perception of herself, but it's not true. As you said, it's more about how she carries herself and frankly how she deals with other people, i.e. men. She bosses all dudes around in her self-appointed role as Edwina's guardian. It's done out of love, but you can see how early 19th century nobilty didn't find that to be the feminine ideal. 

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I think the show has "picked a lane" and I think they should stay in it.  Racism is not an issue in the books (they are all white) but it has also delightfully not been an issue in the show, which, for me, has been absolutely wonderful.  I was actually seriously bummed when they gave that half assed explanation about the King marrying a black Queen, and thus magically, all racism disappeared in less than a generation.

Ridiculous.

I preferred what the show seemed to be portraying until that idiotic moment (which I've decided to ignore.)  A world where the color of someone's skin simply never mattered.  At all.  A "what if" human beings had always been sensible and skin color meant no more than height, or eye color, or the size of one's feet?  Frankly, it made me exceedingly happy to spend time in this world.

24 minutes ago, bijoux said:

I'm frankly shocked by how many people who've read the book imagine Kate as plain. That's her perception of herself, but it's not true. As you said, it's more about how she carries herself and frankly how she deals with other people, i.e. men. She bosses all dudes around in her self-appointed role as Edwina's guardian. It's done out of love, but you can see how early 19th century nobilty didn't find that to be the feminine ideal. 

Exactly.

Still, this Kate is a stunner, like drop dead beautiful.  I'm sure the actress can pull it all off, after all, just be more "modern" and outspoken.  Still, it will be interesting who will play Edwina! 

One cool thing is that Simone Ashley is 5'10", so if they cast a petite young pretty girl the story will still easily work.  Edwina though is just as interesting in many ways, so I hope they keep that loving relationship, and Edwina's intelligence in the series as well.  

Edited by Umbelina
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That seems like good casting on first glance. Looking forward to how Ashley fares with Bailey. 😊

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I love that the book didn't have Edwina and her mom be the evil step-mom and step-sister trope. All three adore each other and it's very 'girl power' in as much Regency can be.

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On 2/16/2021 at 4:20 PM, Nire said:

Seeing the casting for Kate I'm curious how they can make her not the more stunning of the two sisters.

I wouldn't say she's more stunning, but I'd cast Richa Moorjani, who is from the Netflix show "Never Have I Ever"...she gives off that "Golden Girl" vibe of someone who draws and charms people. For what it's worth, Ashley's character on Sex Education is a bit of bitch and I can buy that she wouldn't attract people to her. People get a lot less attractive if you're perceived as an unfriendly "shrew", which seems to be what you guys are saying about Kate- she's basically The Taming of the Shrew. 

Netflix does like to reuse actors. Ashley Simone is from Sex Education.

 

Edited by methodwriter85
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I don't know that Richa herself will be in the running for Edwina (watch them announce her a second after I post this) because she doesn't look younger than Simone. She does have the effortlessly beautiful quality the character will need so I wouldn't be surprised if they go with someone who strongly resembles her even if it's not intentional.

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The Rumor mill says that Mary (the Stepmother) will be white and Edwina will be half Indian.  I think as much as to solidify that this is a half-sister/stepmother relationship as anything else.  This is the opposite of Cinderella, Mary is the best Step Mother ever and Edwina and Kate are tight.

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That makes sense. I wonder if they will cast Naomi Scott or someone with similar features to her. I thought she was wonderful in Aladdin and she is English and half Indian. 

Edited by twoods
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2 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Does the situation with Pen as LW outing Marina happen the same way in the books?

Marina isn’t a character until the fifth book, I think, long after everyone knows Pen is LW, which happens in Book 4. And Marina isn’t really a character at all...by the time she “shows up” in the 5th book, she’s actually dead. Her widowed husband ends up marrying Eloise. I might be a little off on that and she might be mentioned prior. Book Marina is a Bridgerton cousin, I think.

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Technically everyone finds out about Lady Whistledown at the same time as Eloise's book since books 4, 5 and 6 happen more or less at the same time. Book 4 is Penelope and Colin, 5 is Eloise, and 6 is Francesca.

And there really isn't anything like Marina's  storyline in the books at all. It's a purely for tv plot, as is Marina since, as noted by BlackberryJam, she's not really a character. Just a distant cousin Eloise vaguely knew in childhood.

Edited by Ailianna
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