S07.E04: Red Light, Green Light

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

An explosion at a traffic stop puts Holmes and Watson on two separate tracks of investigation as they try to determine whether the attack was gang-related or a terrorist attack. Also, Holmes and Watson suspect there is more for them to discover regarding the recent attack on someone within their inner circle.

Promo:

Original air date: 6/13/19

[paigow]

Ethan Hunt must be criminal of the week.....

[rhys]

Ack. What did that note say? TIA.

[wonderwoman]

13 minutes ago, rhys said:

Ack. What did that note say? TIA.

A phone # and something along the lines, ‘Joan Watson is trouble,”

[thuganomics85]

While I get why they might not wanted to drag things out, I'm still disappointed that Gregson didn't actually say that he was sorry to Sherlock.  I guess I can buy that Sherlock wouldn't need to actually hear it in order to move past it and "look to the future", but I still feel like Gregson owes him after what he did.

Case of the week seemed to go all over the place here, but I'm always down for ones that bring Everyone back into the fold!  I just love the wacky stuff they make Sherlock do.

Not surprised at all that Derek and his wife are actually totally connected to something shady.  And they might be targeting Joan?!  How dare they?!!

Starting to dig the temporary captain and how he is so baffled over all the stunts Sherlock and Joan pull, but he kind of just rolls with it, because you get the sense trying to reign them in would be too much of a hassle for him.

Still like how Bell solves parts of the case on his own and is continued to be shown as a great detective in his own right.

Edited June 15, 2019 by thuganomics85

[elle]

1 hour ago, rhys said:

Ack. What did that note say? TIA.

- Tell them

- Joan Watson

- Trouble

- (phone number)

Halcon without tatoos, Everyone, and a mention of Agent McNally, we may have a mention or sighting of Alfredo yet.

[paigow]

7 hours ago, elle said:

- Tell them

- Joan Watson

- Trouble

- (phone number)

Nobody gets to kill Joan...except Moriarty....She will likely be the one to eradicate this terror network quid pro quo with Sherlock.... 

[johntfs]

Gah!  Dammit!  I forgot to record this one yesterday! 

[shapeshifter]

I was multi-tasking, so I'm reading the caption script to wrap my head around the details. 
Here's what I've got so far:

I guess the purpose of Sherlock's isolation chamber dream sequence was to remind us about this habit of his so that later when he revealed Everyone's fee for info on the hackers was for him to put Jell-O in his tank, we could picture it?

I loved this fake out with Halcon/Javier/Jon Huertas: 

[HALCON] You brought it, my dogs.
                  Those punks tried to take what's yours, but you didn't back down.
                  You went right at them.
                  You punished them for their arrogance.
                  'Cause that's how we do, right?
                  All right, on three, give me a "bulldogs." One, two, three

[LITTLE BOYS] Bulldogs! 

[HALCON] All right, Tristan's mom has orange slices in her car.
                  Make sure you put the trash in the cans.
                  I don't want to find no rinds on the ground.
                  Hey, you did a great job today, buddy.
                  All right, I'm a little proud of you, all right, mijo?
                  All right, now go get some oranges.

[rainsmom]

Regarding the previews for next week:

Looks like "Case of the Week" -- completely superfluous, unnecessary to the season arc. They have a short, 13-episode season, and they STILL can't write a tight arc. THIS is why this is the last network show I watch.

This is also an example of why some writers write for Netflix and HBO... and others write for network TV.

[tennisgurl]

So Sherlock is scared of creepy clowns with axes? I cant say I blame him for that one. 

I am really glad that Gregson is awake, but I still want to hear him say that he is sorry to Sherlock, even if he did feel justified for what he did for Hannah. Speaking of, havnt seen HER around as her dad lays dying, have we? Maybe she is is hiding from Sherlock and Joan, but its also possible she has just not bothered to come by. 

I like the temporary captain and his bafflement at Sherlock and Joan's antics. "...Should I go in there?" Its nice that they didnt just make him a jerk who hates Joan and Sherlock, even if he has no idea what their deal is beyond getting results. 

I always love Bell solving parts of the case on his own, showing what a great detective he is in his own right. 

Decently interesting case of the week, I am kind of amused that the gang was basically just in the wrong place at the wrong time and the fact that they were gang members were totally incidental to the actual plan. I felt really bad for the nurse who was killed trying to help. I knew right away that the guy with the records was involved, but not how. I love seeing that the scary badass gang leader with all the tattoos has now given up his life of crime to become a suburban soccer dad in Connecticut! That really was a great tattoo removal job! 

[dubbel zout]

22 minutes ago, rainsmom said:

This is also an example of why some writers write for Netflix and HBO... and others write for network TV.

I'd argue that writers for many Netflix and HBO shows don't know how to craft a tight arc, either. It's a writer problem, not a network problem, IMO.

21 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I like the temporary captain and his bafflement at Sherlock and Joan's antics. "...Should I go in there?" Its nice that they didnt just make him a jerk who hates Joan and Sherlock, even if he has no idea what their deal is beyond getting results.

Same here. It's refreshing they're kind of punting on this. We see just enough of the temp captain to know he's watching the precinct, but he's not going to micromanage anything that's already working.

22 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

That really was a great tattoo removal job! 

LOL. I kept thinking it must have hurt like crazy. And on the face? Oof. 

[roseha]

When I saw that the former gang leader was living in Connecticut I wondered if there was going to be a connection to the ferry/bomb plot or was that a deliberate red herring by the writers?  

I wondered why they took so long to get back to the truck driver but was relieved to find out he was totally innocent of anything wrong (sometimes I just sympathize with certain characters and he seemed nice), of course when they found the company he was delivering to it led them to the ultimate baddie - it did seem unusual that he only appeared at the very end, though.

I have been catching up on the show after missing the first episode of the season, but have found most of the storylines intriguing.  The main arc is still unpredictable enough that it looks that Sherlock and Joan will be kept guessing for awhile.  I also liked seeing Bell’s continuing involvement in the cases.  Hoping for a good wrap up for the show, I will miss it as well, it’s the only current drama I watch also.

Edited June 14, 2019 by roseha

[iMonrey]

Quote

Still like how Bell solves parts of the case on his own and is continued to be shown as a great detective in his own right.

Except that by the time he called Sherlock, Sherlock had already figured all of that out. So it undercut what Bell had discovered on his own. That was the only part I didn't like.

Good case this week, I thought, except I do not remember the former gang leader with the (former) face tattoos. What was the backstory on him? Also, having tattoos like that removed takes a long time with multiple appointments, over a year or more. I don't think your skin would be all smooth and clean like that either. You'd more likely wind up looking like Edward James Olmos by the end of it. 

Also, this is a result of having watched this show for too long but I knew Saul Maranek-Halevi was going to turn out to be the hacker. They just spent way too much time on him. 

I think I might be losing the thread on who shot Gregson and why.

[Driad]

When they show a phone with a message, do they expect we can read it?  I can't, so I'm pleased when a character reads it aloud.  Such messages do not appear in closed captions.

Would have been fun to see the gelatin in use.

Is Joan's hair less brassy than it was in earlier episodes?  Maybe I'm just getting used to it.

[elle]

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Good case this week, I thought, except I do not remember the former gang leader with the (former) face tattoos. What was the backstory on him? Also, having tattoos like that removed takes a long time with multiple appointments, over a year or more. I don't think your skin would be all smooth and clean like that either. You'd more likely wind up looking like Edward James Olmos by the end of it. 

Info on the Halcon character here.  

7 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

7 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I like the temporary captain and his bafflement at Sherlock and Joan's antics. "...Should I go in there?" Its nice that they didnt just make him a jerk who hates Joan and Sherlock, even if he has no idea what their deal is beyond getting results.

Same here. It's refreshing they're kind of punting on this. We see just enough of the temp captain to know he's watching the precinct, but he's not going to micromanage anything that's already working.

Add me to the list of liking how they are handling the temp Captain.  I did get a kick out of Sherlock 's subconscious had the Captain react to the dismissal of Sherlock as this being all a dream.  It makes me wonder if he would do that in real life (I am trying to be nice here, but you....)

I admit to being fooled by that opening. I'm glad that Gregson is okay. Sherlock should have let Gregson apologize instead of telling him it wasn't necessary.  I don't like that cliche. The person may need to say it more than you need to hear it.

Still we got a lovely JLM smile.

Edited June 14, 2019 by elle

[seacliffsal]

1 hour ago, elle said:

I admit to being fooled by that opening. I'm glad that Gregson is okay. Sherlock should have let Gregson apologizes instead of telling him it wasn't necessary.  I don't like that cliche. The person may need to say it more than you need to hear it.

Still we got a lovely JLM smile.

Whew!  For a while there I thought I was the only one who was fooled by the opening scene!  I mean, I had a tear in my eye and all before they revealed it was a dream sequence.  Oh, and they will rue the day they targeted Joan; Meetze doesn't know that Sherlock is in town...

[ferjy]

5 hours ago, rainsmom said:

Regarding the previews for next week:

Looks like "Case of the Week" -- completely superfluous, unnecessary to the season arc. They have a short, 13-episode season, and they STILL can't write a tight arc. THIS is why this is the last network show I watch.

This is also an example of why some writers write for Netflix and HBO... and others write for network TV.

The writing definitely could be better as far as the cases go. I now watch mainly for the interaction with the main characters, specifically Joan and Sherlock, and watching Sherlock's odd ways. I wish they would come up with a different way to relay the details to us beyond having the main characters basically reading them off note-style. It's like they're catering to a half-wit audience, afraid we won't grasp the scenario without them spelling it out for us. I have visions of the head writer reading over the first draft, "The viewers will never get this, the simpletons. Lay it all out for them." Joan talking to Sherlock, "You said...." and then listing off the details that Sherlock obviously told her offscreen. No one has that type of conversation. As if she'd have to repeat it all to him. He was the one who told her! It feels like they're reading from a script rather than making us believe this is really happening. When they're rattling off the info, I half expect them to turn to the camera and ask the viewers if we're keeping up. Joan peering out at us, unsure: "Shall I repeat it?"

[dargosmydaddy]

6 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I guess the purpose of Sherlock's isolation chamber dream sequence was to remind us about this habit of his so that later when he revealed Everyone's fee for info on the hackers was for him to put Jell-O in his tank, we could picture it?

That and the fact that it's nice to have a shirtless JLM scene now and again?

I thought this week's episode was more engaging than last week's. Elementary is always convoluted, but this was easier to keep up with the twists and turns, and had better guest actors.

I did chuckle a bit when Meers's wife said something about him being in high school when 9/11 happened. I was a freshman in college then, and Meers looks waaay older than me. In consulting with IMBD today it turns out the actor is only 2-3 years older than me, but he definitely looks his age/ older than his age, and to have him play 5 or so years younger felt weird. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

The writing definitely could be better as far as the cases go.

Perhaps, but I still find it quite compelling and interesting. I really have to pay attention to keep up with all the twists and turns, and I cannot let my mind wander for an instant. If I miss something, I have to go back and rewind. Some of the cases are easier to follow than others but overall I think the writers do a good job with them. It can't be easy churning them out week after week. It's just the nature of the beast that after you've seen enough of them you get used to the formula and start guessing things early on.

Edited June 14, 2019 by iMonrey

[goldilocks]

2 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

Whew!  For a while there I thought I was the only one who was fooled by the opening scene!  I mean, I had a tear in my eye and all before they revealed it was a dream sequence.  Oh, and they will rue the day they targeted Joan; Meetze doesn't know that Sherlock is in town...

There are tricks to watching the show. There was no one else by the casket. Not even anyone in sight, besides the two characters pertinent to the plot at that moment. That right there alerts you that it's a dream. 

[goldilocks]

4 hours ago, Driad said:

When they show a phone with a message, do they expect we can read it?  I can't, so I'm pleased when a character reads it aloud.  Such messages do not appear in closed captions.

Would have been fun to see the gelatin in use.

Is Joan's hair less brassy than it was in earlier episodes?  Maybe I'm just getting used to it.

It’s awful. It looked like straw in this episode. Her hair used to be such a deep color and shiny and healthy.

[ferjy]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Perhaps, but I still find it quite compelling and interesting. I really have to pay attention to keep up with all the twists and turns, and I cannot let my mind wander for an instant. If I miss something, I have to go back and rewind. Some of the cases are easier to follow than others but overall I think the writers do a good job with them. It can't be easy churning them out week after week. It's just the nature of the beast that after you've seen enough of them you get used to the formula and start guessing things early on.

You only quoted a part of what I wrote, obscuring the point I was making. Sure, the twists and turns are written better than what I was pointing out, that it’s stilted conversation between the main characters because they want to make sure we’re not missing the details. It’s an awkward way of delivering the info to the audience. 

And you’re right. We’re into the seventh season. If you use the same formula over and over, people will find it less compelling. The cases themselves rarely interest me anymore. But the character development is good. We get invested in them (even Clyde!) and that’s what keeps us coming back.

[ferjy]

46 minutes ago, goldilocks said:

There are tricks to watching the show. There was no one else by the casket. Not even anyone in sight, besides the two characters pertinent to the plot at that moment. That right there alerts you that it's a dream. 

And I doubt they would announce the captain’s death that way, so abruptly. I knew straight off it was a dream and even told the TV screen so. 

[ferjy]

5 hours ago, Driad said:

When they show a phone with a message, do they expect we can read it?  I can't, so I'm pleased when a character reads it aloud.  Such messages do not appear in closed captions.

Would have been fun to see the gelatin in use.

Is Joan's hair less brassy than it was in earlier episodes?  Maybe I'm just getting used to it.

Some shows have started putting up the text onscreen in a bubble so it’s easier to read. I think that’s a good move and hope it’s a trend that more shows follow. 

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, ferjy said:

I half expect them to turn to the camera and ask the viewers if we're keeping up. Joan peering out at us, unsure: "Shall I repeat it?"

Hee.

Still, I could use that treatment.

[MissLucas]

47 minutes ago, ferjy said:

Some shows have started putting up the text onscreen in a bubble so it’s easier to read. I think that’s a good move and hope it’s a trend that more shows follow. 

The 'other' Sherlock made ample use of displaying text messages and all sorts of info as overlays (or however you call that) - helpful but sometimes also more of a stylistic element to enhance the show's look. (It has been done before but 'Sherlock' really took it to the next level for a tv-show.)

I fell asleep during this episode (not a critique) but I made it through the first part and I like how against tropes the temporary captain (Mr 30'000 ft) is written. Bemused but willing to go along with the crazy since it produces results and he respects 'Tommy's house'. Normally a replacement figure of authority is set to butt heads with the maverick character because s/he doesn't understand genius. I find the different take on the situation refreshing.

[Driad]

1 minute ago, MissLucas said:

The 'other' Sherlock made ample use of displaying text messages and all sorts of info as overlays (or however you call that)

Yes, that was helpful.  Basically I like Elementary better than Sherlock, although early in Elementary's run I wondered why they called the characters Holmes and Watson when the show had so many differences from canon.

[milner]

Was the former gang leader tattoo removal guy the second husband of Rebecca on This is us?

[tljgator]

3 minutes ago, milner said:

Was the former gang leader tattoo removal guy the second husband of Rebecca on This is us?

Yep. He was also Esposito on Castle.

[milner]

Thank you tljgator

[shapeshifter]

One question about the COTW:  Are we to assume that Maranek, the father-in-law, ordered Sandra, his mole inside his competitor's company, to call Mara Tres with the info that Maranek-Levi did the hack that caused the death of the Mara Tres gas syphoning operation driver—essentially ordering a hit on his son-in-law?

And one question about the season arc: Is Meers being either extorted for debts or blackmailed by the domestic terrorists?

And add me to the list of those enjoying the avuncular temporary Captain character.

7 hours ago, dargosmydaddy said:

14 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I guess the purpose of Sherlock's isolation chamber dream sequence was to remind us about this habit of his so that later when he revealed Everyone's fee for info on the hackers was for him to put Jell-O in his tank, we could picture it?

That and the fact that it's nice to have a shirtless JLM scene now and again?

Heh, yeah, well that would be part of so "we could picture it." ;)

Edited June 15, 2019 by shapeshifter

[paigow]

18 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Also, having tattoos like that removed takes a long time with multiple appointments, over a year or more. I don't think your skin would be all smooth and clean like that either.

He called the guy that fixed Michael Scofield for the Prison Break movies... Next stop Blindspot....

[paigow]

9 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

One question about the COTW:  Are we to assume that Maranek, the father-in-law, ordered Sandra, his mole inside his competitor's company, to call Mara Tres with the info that Maranek-Levi did the hack that caused the death of the Mara Tres gas syphoning operation driver—essentially ordering a hit on his son-in-law?

Yes. He ran out of time before he could arrange a hit on Sandra.....

[iMonrey]

Quote

Sure, the twists and turns are written better than what I was pointing out, that it’s stilted conversation between the main characters because they want to make sure we’re not missing the details. It’s an awkward way of delivering the info to the audience. 

Oh sure, I think we all agree the way two or more people confront the perp at the end of the episode, each taking their turn to lay out the case, picking up where the other left off, is stilted and unrealistic. I've gotten so used to it by now though that I just consider it part of the show's charm. I really laughed when Sherlock said Maranek's mole had just stepped outside to make a phone call and Maranek's phone rang right then. What is the likelihood they could time it that perfectly? But I still got a kick out of it.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Oh sure, I think we all agree the way two or more people confront the perp at the end of the episode, each taking their turn to lay out the case, picking up where the other left off, is stilted and unrealistic. I've gotten so used to it by now though that I just consider it part of the show's charm. I really laughed when Sherlock said Maranek's mole had just stepped outside to make a phone call and Maranek's phone rang right then. What is the likelihood they could time it that perfectly? But I still got a kick out of it.

Yes, but they are either pulling out all the stops on unrealism during this final season, or else I am just paying more attention--perhaps savoring the last time we will get new episodes.
For example, the disappearing tattoos:

5 hours ago, paigow said:

On 6/14/2019 at 12:44 PM, iMonrey said:

Also, having tattoos like that removed takes a long time with multiple appointments, over a year or more. I don't think your skin would be all smooth and clean like that either.

He called the guy that fixed Michael Scofield for the Prison Break movies... Next stop Blindspot....

and Sherlock hiding in plain sight before he worked things out with the FBI.

[ferjy]

9 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Oh sure, I think we all agree the way two or more people confront the perp at the end of the episode, each taking their turn to lay out the case, picking up where the other left off, is stilted and unrealistic. I've gotten so used to it by now though that I just consider it part of the show's charm. I really laughed when Sherlock said Maranek's mole had just stepped outside to make a phone call and Maranek's phone rang right then. What is the likelihood they could time it that perfectly? But I still got a kick out of it.

lol Yeah, perfect timing. A lot of shows have the ending bit too, but this show does it throughout. Almost every conversation the main characters have with each other is reciting all the details. It sticks out like a sore thumb. Unless they're sparring, which I love. I love their personal interactions. I'll miss that part of the show. Poor Joan is going to develop PTSD from all the times Sherlock rudely awakens her with his contraptions. One day she's going to stomp over to him and wallop him.

[theatremouse]

On 6/14/2019 at 10:44 AM, iMonrey said:

Also, having tattoos like that removed takes a long time with multiple appointments, over a year or more. I don't think your skin would be all smooth and clean like that either. You'd more likely wind up looking like Edward James Olmos by the end of it.

I thought he said it had been over two years since he got out. Although when he first showed up sans tattoos I thought they were going to imply he was wearing makeup over them rather than having had them completely removed. Other than when it's still healing, I don't think it usually changes the texture of the skin. More likely he'd either have faint outlines still visible(like a super pale version of what he had before) or bleached-ish looking spots where the tattoos were. So he'd probably have to be wearing makeup to completely obscure some sort of lines on his face.

[Morrigan2575]

On 6/14/2019 at 1:44 PM, iMonrey said:

Also, having tattoos like that removed takes a long time with multiple appointments, over a year or more. I don't think your skin would be all smooth and clean like that either. You'd more likely wind up looking like Edward James Olmos by the end of it. 

I have a tiny tattoo on my back that I wasn't thrilled with. I went to see someone about getting it removed they basically told me not worth it. But IIRC they said that the removal would leave my skin discolored (lighter) in that area. 

I've seen reports/editorials about reformed gang members getting their tats removed in order to join the military. I guess that's what inspired this particular character's backstory.

Anyone else spend the whole episode waiting for Gregson to die? After the opening dream I said if Gregson wakes up in this episode he's going to end up dying and we'll fibd out that the "dream" was post real funeral. I was shocked that the episode ended with Gregson still alive, especially after the line about them kicking him out of the hospital in a week. 

The episode ended and I'm still waiting for him to die...not sure why.

[shapeshifter]

9 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

The episode ended and I'm still waiting for him to die...not sure why.

It's kind of written that way--with him not getting over the injury in TV land record style.

And having him die slowly from an unrelated injury is probably the only way for the audience to forgive him without making him a big f'in' hero/martyr.

[iMonrey]

Quote

 Other than when it's still healing, I don't think it usually changes the texture of the skin. 

I believe the process involves dermabrasion, and from what I've heard it's quite painful. I can't remember which celebrity I heard talking about it, someone who had a former romantic partner's name removed from their back. 

[paigow]

On 6/14/2019 at 11:39 AM, tennisgurl said:

I love seeing that the scary badass gang leader with all the tattoos has now given up his life of crime to become a suburban soccer dad in Connecticut! 

But a horrible coach...Sherlock berated him for using ancient deployment configurations.....

[shapeshifter]

55 minutes ago, paigow said:

But a horrible coach...Sherlock berated him for using ancient deployment configurations.....

Sherlock did criticize the former gang leader's soccer strategies, but I accepted Halcon/Danny's explanation:

Quote

Well, kids this age-- the more players you got kicking the ball at the opposing goal, the better. 

[JayDub]

11 hours ago, paigow said:

But a horrible coach...Sherlock berated him for using ancient deployment configurations.....

Sherlock is probably world class with about anything except kids. Teaching most kids in sports is like trying to herd cats.

Been there, done that. Kids and then grandkids.

[Clanstarling]

On 6/13/2019 at 9:23 PM, thuganomics85 said:

While I get why they might not wanted to drag things out, I'm still disappointed that Gregson didn't actually say that he was sorry to Sherlock.  I guess I can buy that Sherlock wouldn't need to actually hear it in order to move past it and "look to the future", but I still feel like Gregson owes him after what he did.

I think the intent was clearly there, and so I was satisfied and I thought it was handled in a way that fit both characters.

On 6/14/2019 at 8:36 AM, rainsmom said:

This is also an example of why some writers write for Netflix and HBO... and others write for network TV.

I think writers will write wherever they can get jobs - only the creme de la creme really get to pick an choose - just like normal life. JMS of Babylon 5 fame started out with He-Man and the Masters of the Universe, and included Murder She Wrote in his early credits.

I don't think the arcs are defined by the writers as much as the showrunners.

On 6/14/2019 at 10:32 PM, shapeshifter said:

And one question about the season arc: Is Meers being either extorted for debts or blackmailed by the domestic terrorists?

I had a slightly different thought while watching. Maybe instead of being a terrorist, he's part of a vigilante group that's trying to take care of terrorists on their own - which explains killing Bledsoe.

[elle]

On 6/14/2019 at 4:40 PM, goldilocks said:

On 6/14/2019 at 2:38 PM, seacliffsal said:

Whew!  For a while there I thought I was the only one who was fooled by the opening scene!  I mean, I had a tear in my eye and all before they revealed it was a dream sequence.  Oh, and they will rue the day they targeted Joan; Meetze doesn't know that Sherlock is in town...

There are tricks to watching the show. There was no one else by the casket. Not even anyone in sight, besides the two characters pertinent to the plot at that moment. That right there alerts you that it's a dream. 

I explained that away to myself that Sherlock would be alone because that is usually how those scenes play out.  I was also trying to process if the show would really have had Gregson die.

On 6/14/2019 at 9:39 AM, tennisgurl said:

I felt really bad for the nurse who was killed trying to help. 

I actually gasped at that scene.  That poor woman!