S04.E16: Hey World!

[Jediknight]

21 hours ago, Maverick said:

 Zari's brother being a Legend makes perfect sense.  They still would have needed the Wind totem to stop Mallus and it was held by him not Zari. 

 Best part of the episode was The Monitor shaking his head. Like, "the people are total fuck ups.  No way I'm inviting them to save the multiverse.  Pass the popcorn."

And then after seeing how Team Flash's IQ drops 75 points each when confronting the villain, he'll be thinking "I need the Legends.  They're fuck ups, but they get shit done."

[Chyromaniac]

I liked this finale a lot. First off, as someone who feels that Casper Crump got an undue share of the blame for the shortcomings of Season 1, it’s nice to see him so well received this time.  Also, it was hilarious to see “souls of the damned are stored as coins in hell” here, as all weekend I’ve been watching the D&D creators  tout that as a prominent feature of their next game book.

 Otherwise, I feel like they managed to come up with a satisfying end for the “magical creatures” story. It’s nice that they actually bothered to say (looking at you, Supergirl writers) that just because “people” are different, doesn’t mean that they are necessarily scary or evil. Also, that our “enemies” are sometimes only as bad as we treat them. The “monsters” were acting out when they were being hunted, locked in cages, tortured, killed, or sent to hell. When they were treated with dignity and respect, they helped put on a show and sing a guy back to life.

The only real bummer is the Zari situation- although I fully expect that to be rectified next season. Hey, maybe she can come back to save the day riding her dragon- I mean, there’s no way that can go sideways, right?

Also, I’m a bit nervous about the implication that next season will involve tracking down actual historical villains. It makes sense to have a whimsical light hearted show when the goal is to save young Obama from Gorilla Grodd, or rescue Caesar from spring break. I don’t know if you can have wacky hijinks when your bad guy is Charles Manson, but I guess we’ll have to see...

[Sakura12]

I don't know they can make it interesting if they are dropped off in different times, would Charles Manson be able to start cult in the dark ages? How would Mary Tudor react to the 1960's? I welcome a more serious subject matter with the craziness that only Legends can pull off.

From what i could see the coins were for Charles Manson, Mary Tudor, Caligula, Joseph Stalin, Ghengis Khan, John Wayne Gacy, and Lizzie Borden. One half covered coins starts with Rasp, so I'm thinking Rasputin.

Vlad the impaler would be interesting to see. Especially with him finding out he's the inspiration for vampires that have now become sparkly sex symbols. 

[benteen]

I really enjoyed the finale.  I've been a little critical of the show recently but I think they managed to get things back on track with this episode.

I guess I can see where they spent their special effects budget.  They did a very good job with the FX and it events feel bigger.

I didn't expect the return of Vandal Savage but give Legends credit for making his scene quite amusing.

I agree that Constantine has worked out really well with this show.

Enjoyed The Monitor showing up and him eating popcorn isn't a surprise.  Legends of Tomorrow is consistently the most entertaining Arrowverse show and not dour like Arrow and Flash. 

Nice to see Tom Wilson pop up again and I enjoyed his conversation with Nate.

So long, Tabitha.  Jane Carr was a hoot on this show and I really think Tabitha could have made a fun Legend. 

Good reveal with Zari being replaced with her brother but I hope this is not the last we've seen on this Zari.  The character of Zari that we've gotten to know is a really good one.

The premise next year looks like it will be a good one.

While I think they managed to right the ship, I do think the show was a little off at times this season.  They have added so many elements to the show that I think it became a little unwieldy.  Mona in particular...I hope she's not back next season but I suspect that she is.  Again though, strong finish.

See you in Crisis, Legends!

Edited May 22, 2019 by benteen

[Goldmoon]

Furious about losing Zari and keeping Nate and Mona.  Show!  What are you thinking?

I hope they redeem themselves next year.  I will say I hated VS as much as anyone and was delighted with his scene.  Kudos to TPTB for not including CC in the guest list at the beginning.

[ACW]

23 hours ago, Lugal said:

I'm not sure about how they're going to play it with all the historical villains released from Hell, after PK's interview where he says: "Maybe they're started to drink their own Kool-Aid and feel that Genghis Khan was just misunderstood, because whatever he did, he didn't get a pony for his birthday." 

Of all people, surely Genghis Khan *did* get a pony for his birthday.

[Bruinsfan]

I'm still ticked about Neron's plot involving people selling their souls by blindly clicking a checkbox in a EULA. My understanding is those things aren't even enforceable as TOS in the real world; there's no way people should be able to bargain their immortal souls away without knowing that's exactly what they're agreeing to. (I was relieved to find out that Ray did actually knowingly sell his; it wasn't at all clear to me in the previous episode that Ray being in Hell wasn't just a consequence of Neron playing musical chairs with his body.)

[blackwing]

I've disliked Ray Palmer and Brandon Routh and his stupid Pantene hair ever since the Arrow days, so I would have gladly lost Ray in exchange for keeping Zari.  I would have even kept Nate over Ray.  I like Nate's role as a historian.  Ray is just there to be awkward science geek.

I gave up on Arrow when whatever form of Laurel came back for good, and never watched any of the other Arrowverse shows, so I have no idea who this Monitor is that everyone keeps mentioning.

Zari's place on the team is now occupied by her brother and nobody knows any better.  I'm assuming that we get her back next season, hopefully.

5 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

From what i could see the coins were for Charles Manson, Mary Tudor, Caligula, Joseph Stalin, Ghengis Khan, John Wayne Gacy, and Lizzie Borden. One half covered coins starts with Rasp, so I'm thinking Rasputin.

Vlad the impaler would be interesting to see. Especially with him finding out he's the inspiration for vampires that have now become sparkly sex symbols. 

I really hope that we actually see all of these people next season... really looking forward to seeing the show's interpretation of Mary Tudor.  However, I'm sure she is going to be the stereotypical crazy "Bloody Mary".

I feel like Mary gets a bad rap in history.  She was a fervently Catholic queen and wanted England to remain Catholic and thus had about 300 Protestant fomenters killed.  For this, she has been saddled with the "Bloody Mary" epithet by history.  Compare this to Elizabeth I, who executed about the same number of Catholics but is regarded as a saintly virgin who ushered in England's Golden Age.  And Henry VIII, who is said to have had tens of thousands of people killed.  

I suppose it is better to have any depiction of Mary on screen than none.  There have been umpteen billion depictions of Elizabeth in TV and film, but the only time Mary ever seemingly appears is as a minor inconvenient figure in the early part of Elizabeth's story.  I was so disappointed when "The Tudors" ended and the producers didn't take the opportunity to produce a series focusing on the children of Henry VIII.  Sarah Bolger portrayed the only sympathetic depiction of Mary Tudor I can remember in media and she was fantastic in the role.

[Starfish35]

I’m starting to feel like the Grinch, or Scrooge, or something. ☹️  I don’t hate fun, I swear.  But. Yeah.  This was probably my least favorite season finale yet (and yes, that includes season one).

It had some great moments (“what, the dress doesn’t sell it?” “And I thought I was being tortured.” “Bastard! No one outdrinks Mick Rory!” Except Sara Lance, or are you not admitting that one, Mick? 😂).  

The rest of it was......just too much for me, sorry.  Singing Nate back to life? Yeah no.  Even for this show, that was too much for me.  And I guess I developed too much of a kneejerk “ugh”reaction to the sight of Vandal Savage’s face during season one to find him funny now, though I get what they were trying to do. 

The worst, though, is the loss of Zari.  Even if Tala Ashe is back next season, it won’t be our Zari, and Zari was second only to Sara for my favorite character on this show.  And to lose her like this, after what has been such a lackluster season for her character, in what feels like ends up being more about Nate than about her....it just rankles. 

I’m not giving up on the show. I really do hope next season is better.  But I was really disappointed in this season in a lot of ways.

[ketose]

2 hours ago, blackwing said:

I've disliked Ray Palmer and Brandon Routh and his stupid Pantene hair ever since the Arrow days, so I would have gladly lost Ray in exchange for keeping Zari.  I would have even kept Nate over Ray.  I like Nate's role as a historian.  Ray is just there to be awkward science geek.

I gave up on Arrow when whatever form of Laurel came back for good, and never watched any of the other Arrowverse shows, so I have no idea who this Monitor is that everyone keeps mentioning.

Zari's place on the team is now occupied by her brother and nobody knows any better.  I'm assuming that we get her back next season, hopefully.

I really hope that we actually see all of these people next season... really looking forward to seeing the show's interpretation of Mary Tudor.  However, I'm sure she is going to be the stereotypical crazy "Bloody Mary".

I feel like Mary gets a bad rap in history.  She was a fervently Catholic queen and wanted England to remain Catholic and thus had about 300 Protestant fomenters killed.  For this, she has been saddled with the "Bloody Mary" epithet by history.  Compare this to Elizabeth I, who executed about the same number of Catholics but is regarded as a saintly virgin who ushered in England's Golden Age.  And Henry VIII, who is said to have had tens of thousands of people killed.  

I suppose it is better to have any depiction of Mary on screen than none.  There have been umpteen billion depictions of Elizabeth in TV and film, but the only time Mary ever seemingly appears is as a minor inconvenient figure in the early part of Elizabeth's story.  I was so disappointed when "The Tudors" ended and the producers didn't take the opportunity to produce a series focusing on the children of Henry VIII.  Sarah Bolger portrayed the only sympathetic depiction of Mary Tudor I can remember in media and she was fantastic in the role.

Zari's defining characteristics were being snarky and good with computers. I'll take the OG Legends over her. Nate as a historian at least has theoretical use on the team, but they kind of shoehorned Zari in as ship's mechanic when Jax left.

Number of kills is probably the most important measure in hell. In that case, Hitler had the most deaths directly attributed to his actions followed by Napoleon. Then there are various wars in China with high body counts.

3 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

I'm still ticked about Neron's plot involving people selling their souls by blindly clicking a checkbox in a EULA. My understanding is those things aren't even enforceable as TOS in the real world; there's no way people should be able to bargain their immortal souls away without knowing that's exactly what they're agreeing to. (I was relieved to find out that Ray did actually knowingly sell his; it wasn't at all clear to me in the previous episode that Ray being in Hell wasn't just a consequence of Neron playing musical chairs with his body.)

It appears that the EULA was a misdirection as he just needed enough fear to break his buddies out of hell.

Ray "sold" his soul in exchange for Neron not killing Nate. Not having a body any more, I guess he had to go down to hell as a coin.

[raven]

5 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

I’m not giving up on the show. I really do hope next season is better.  But I was really disappointed in this season in a lot of ways.

I'm with you.  I thought this was a meh finale.  I liked Sara/Nate/Gary as the superhero trio and the baby dragon was cute.  Ray playing jenga in hell with Vandal Savage was fun and seeing Nate's dad (Biff!) was nice closure.  The rest - eh.

So do the magical creatures stay at Heyworld?  I probably missed something, I didn't re-watch this one, which I usually do.  I hope that's the end of magical creatures if we're getting souls from hell running amuck next season.   I felt like they never really knew what to do with the creatures - they're bad! they're good! they're misunderstood!

I mean, the show is still mainly fun and I'm glad it's still around, I just hope they get back on track next season.

[Maelstrom]

I've been debating whether or not to post, because A) it ain't gonna be pretty, and B) I'm not sure how much I care anymore, but here goes.

We lose Zari and keep Nate? Fuck you, Show. I liked Nate for about five seconds at the start of the season, but apparently that was just a fluke and I can't have nice things. I will say that I enjoyed Brandon Routh's performance, as well as Matt Ryan, Jane Carr, and Courtney Ford. Seeing Ray bond with Vandal Savage over giant jenga was my favorite part of the episode. Go Haircut!

The second half of this season has been a huge, huge disappointment to me. It feels like all of the things I liked about this show have been lost or ignored in favor of things that I don't care about or outright dislike. There have been a few bright spots here and there, namely some nice bits of work from some of the actors, but they are just too few and far between. My main reaction to this episode is one of relief that I don't have to make myself sit through this show for seven months. Assuming I bother watching next year at all... and PK's latest interviews do not leave me optimistic that I'll enjoy season 5 any more than I did 4B. Life's too short to watch bad tv shows.

And it pisses me off, because I LOVED this show last year. And even the first half of this season, too - though in hindsight I can see a lot of the problems I have now taking root then. Ultimately I feel like character has been sacrificed for meaningless wackiness. The Legends themselves have been pushed to the background of their own damn show in favor of new characters that not only aren't interesting, but serve no real function on the canvas. My time-traveling superhero show has become yet another show about government agents, and that's not what I signed up for.

So disappointing.

[catrox14]

So once more, the Arrowverse erases a female character for a brother.   That really fucking sucks.  Zari was great.  I'm pissed.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

14 hours ago, blackwing said:

I feel like Mary gets a bad rap in history.  She was a fervently Catholic queen and wanted England to remain Catholic and thus had about 300 Protestant fomenters killed.  For this, she has been saddled with the "Bloody Mary" epithet by history.  Compare this to Elizabeth I, who executed about the same number of Catholics but is regarded as a saintly virgin who ushered in England's Golden Age.  And Henry VIII, who is said to have had tens of thousands of people killed.  

Henry's rejection of the Catholic Church did have a significant negative effect on Mary's life, but she was no saint.  Let's hope they don't offer any mitigation for the deeds of John Wayne Gacy, Manson and Stalin.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

If Zari had stayed on the ship, how would that have affected her new future? Or actually, her past?

[Spaceman Spiff]

On 5/21/2019 at 6:34 PM, BkWurm1 said:

I'll give Supergirl a pass, she was clearly busy.  And Oliver would have only just recently retired and gone into hiding and wouldn't have wanted to leave his pregnant wife's side when they had bad guys looking to kill them but Barry got done with his big bad last week.  Clearly he's just holding a grudge.   

Come on now. Barry gets enough bashing in his own episode thread, do we really need to do so in another shows thread. I mean maybe Barry knows exactly what happens when someone from the future (his Nora/Zari) messes with their own past and maybe he didn't want to see another person get erased from existence (The dude did just lose a daughter so maybe give him some time to mourn). And even though Zari wasn't technically erased, who she was was fundamentally changed due to her actions, which nobody on this thread seems thrilled about. So I can see Barry giving a "hard pass".

Edited May 23, 2019 by Spaceman Spiff

[johntfs]

On 5/23/2019 at 4:16 AM, ItCouldBeWorse said:

If Zari had stayed on the ship, how would that have affected her new future? Or actually, her past?

It wouldn't have as far as I can tell.  Assuming she wouldn't have has to stay in the temporal zone for the rest of her life to avoid erasure, Zari would have been very much like someone from another dimension.  She'd remember her past and so would the Legends but for everyone else going forward Zari Tomaz would be "that adorable little girl who saved superheroes from a dragon."

[BaggythePanther]

6 hours ago, johntfs said:

It wouldn't have as far as I can tell.  Assuming she wouldn't have has to stay in the temporal zone for the rest of her life to avoid erasure, Zari would have been very much like someone from another dimension.  She'd remember her past and so would the Legends but for everyone else going forward Zari Tomaz would be "that adorable little girl who saved superheroes from a dragon."

Would she have two sets of memories? That would be cool if she was able to remember the old timeline and then get it all back. Then we could have kept that version of Zari and she would still have her happy ending.

[johntfs]

1 hour ago, BaggythePanther said:

Would she have two sets of memories? That would be cool if she was able to remember the old timeline and then get it all back. Then we could have kept that version of Zari and she would still have her happy ending.

I don't think so.  Think about Ray and Gumball from Season 3.  When kid Ray was interacting with Gumball it's not like adult Ray suddenly had memories of that time.

[ketose]

Time travel is one of those things that smart people can't fully understand, so TV writers of average intelligence are never going to be consistent.

Leaving the quantum stuff behind (multiple universes of every possible outcome), my guess is that the "new" Zari of 2042 would disappear and there would only be "old" Zari on the Waverider had the ship stayed in the Temporal Zone.  There's still problems with that because only Gideon and Zari would remember the old timeline and Nate would forget he was in love with her anyway.

[Bruinsfan]

That last is a problem?

[jay741982]

On 5/22/2019 at 5:34 PM, ketose said:

Zari's defining characteristics were being snarky and good with computers. I'll take the OG Legends over her. Nate as a historian at least has theoretical use on the team, but they kind of shoehorned Zari in as ship's mechanic when Jax left.

Number of kills is probably the most important measure in hell. In that case, Hitler had the most deaths directly attributed to his actions followed by Napoleon. Then there are various wars in China with high body counts.

It appears that the EULA was a misdirection as he just needed enough fear to break his buddies out of hell.

Ray "sold" his soul in exchange for Neron not killing Nate. Not having a body any more, I guess he had to go down to hell as a coin.

And see I think Nates only use is being big stud man that has to have a girlfriend who also works with him. Hes just such a stud that Zari who previously had no interest whatsoever suddenly wants him after playing his GF for his parents. Hes such a stud man that women become all about him. And Judging by the head guy hes so awesome that it's about if Zari is good enough for him. Its gross and the importance the writers put on this overrated character is gross

[jay741982]

I'll also add that they really need to cut down on Mona and Gary Screen time as well cut down screen time for The Time Bureau. 

Edited May 25, 2019 by jay741982
Cause I accidentally put down Nora instead of Mona yeesh

[BaggythePanther]

On 5/22/2019 at 4:34 PM, ketose said:

Zari's defining characteristics were being snarky and good with computers. I'll take the OG Legends over her. Nate as a historian at least has theoretical use on the team, but they kind of shoehorned Zari in as ship's mechanic when Jax left.

Why does the team need a historian when they have Gideon? He’s redundant.

[statsgirl]

On 5/24/2019 at 11:42 PM, ketose said:

Leaving the quantum stuff behind (multiple universes of every possible outcome), my guess is that the "new" Zari of 2042 would disappear and there would only be "old" Zari on the Waverider had the ship stayed in the Temporal Zone.  There's still problems with that because only Gideon and Zari would remember the old timeline and Nate would forget he was in love with her anyway.

12 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

That last is a problem?

Not for me. But it would be for Zari if she loved Nate and he couldn't remember her.

[ketose]

3 hours ago, BaggythePanther said:

Why does the team need a historian when they have Gideon? He’s redundant.

Why do they need a drunken thief who writes sci-fi erotica? Why do they need a former assassin? Nate brought the Legends together after Season 1 and he was Steel until the budget ended that. Wind effects are cheap because they're practical effects and the totem is still there for that.

[Sakura12]

Has Nate been much of a Historian? I can only remember a few instances where he did anything with his knowledge and most were in season 2 when he was a sheltered former hemophiliac. Now he's turned into a dude bro stud. He does seem redundant when they have Gideon also spout out historical exposition. The others are not needed but they have different skill sets. 

[mxc90]

If Nate only knew he was going to be part of the show, die, brought back to life and have a dragon, he could have charged more for the price of admission.

[MarkHB]

You know, I don't think anyone else has mentioned it, but the ogre was played by Paul Reubens / Pee Wee Herman. That's at least three DC roles he's had that I know of.

[Sakura12]

58 minutes ago, MarkHB said:

You know, I don't think anyone else has mentioned it, but the ogre was played by Paul Reubens / Pee Wee Herman. That's at least three DC roles he's had that I know of.

Paul Ruebens voiced the Stein puppet. Someone else played the Orge.

[BaggythePanther]

12 hours ago, ketose said:

Why do they need a drunken thief who writes sci-fi erotica? Why do they need a former assassin? Nate brought the Legends together after Season 1 and he was Steel until the budget ended that. Wind effects are cheap because they're practical effects and the totem is still there for that.

Your original post stated that Zari wasn't really that important, but Nate is necessary because he's a historian. My counterpoint was that Nate isn't necessary because they have Gideon. The only thing that sets him apart are his steel powers, which he never uses because budget.

[ketose]

5 hours ago, BaggythePanther said:

Your original post stated that Zari wasn't really that important, but Nate is necessary because he's a historian. My counterpoint was that Nate isn't necessary because they have Gideon. The only thing that sets him apart are his steel powers, which he never uses because budget.

That's a good point. Ultimately, I think all the Legends are losers who succeed by accident. By that standard, I don't think any member is much more useful than another. I liked Zari, but I didn't think the show developed her character enough for me to want to throw out another Legend to keep her. 

[BkWurm1]

On 5/23/2019 at 4:43 AM, Spaceman Spiff said:

Come on now. Barry gets enough bashing in his own episode thread, do we really need to do so in another shows thread. I mean maybe Barry knows exactly what happens when someone from the future (his Nora/Zari) messes with their own past and maybe he didn't want to see another person get erased from existence (The dude did just lose a daughter so maybe give him some time to mourn). And even though Zari wasn't technically erased, who she was was fundamentally changed due to her actions, which nobody on this thread seems thrilled about. So I can see Barry giving a "hard pass".

The legends approached Barry and the rest for a commercial and to drum up interest in their magic creatures are magical show.  There would have been no reason for Barry to worry about them altering the future because they were in his present.  They were just trying to altering people's minds going forward and to Barry, he'd know nothing about the anti meta stuff (but pro-meta seems his wheelhouse so you'd think if he DID know, he'd be in favor of helping) .  So nope, 😄  I'm not giving him any pass for trying to avoid time travel stuff. 

Zari being from the future is not even something Barry would have known about.  

And personally I thought Barry was pretty over the erased daughter by the end of his finale so not giving him a pass on that either.  I mean, he was fine to go into work immediately after it happened and pretty chill about it when he was hanging with Iris after that so he should be fine to help keep people from selling their souls for a lousy app a whole week later. 

Oliver had a reason he couldn't be there in public (he was in hiding to protect his family) and Kara is in another universe and would have still been in the middle of her crazy stuff when they called (she'd just got done dying and not being dead) so I'm still much more forgiving of them.  (Also, can Barry ever be hazed enough?  I'm on side nope. lol)

Quote

Leaving the quantum stuff behind (multiple universes of every possible outcome), my guess is that the "new" Zari of 2042 would disappear and there would only be "old" Zari on the Waverider had the ship stayed in the Temporal Zone.  There's still problems with that because only Gideon and Zari would remember the old timeline and Nate would forget he was in love with her anyway.

I don't think the show or the crew thought about what would happen to the Legends' memory of Zari.  Zari staying where she was protected her but yeah, I hadn't even thought of how they wouldn't remember her or might expect someone else in her place.  Or maybe they might have gotten around that by saying since they retain their memories of other historical stuff that gets changed, as long as Zari was still preserved with her memories, they would keep theirs as well.  But honestly, Im more inclined to think the writers didn't think about that at all

[mac123x]

I wasn't looking at the screen when Sara referred to them not being able to get the Big Trinity.  I rewound so I could see who they were dressed up as.  Uhhh.  I guess the REAL big-three don't exist in this universe?

Didn't care for this episode. especially if Mona and Gary are sticking around for next season.  They're both like fingernails on a chalkboard.

[BaggythePanther]

10 minutes ago, mac123x said:

I wasn't looking at the screen when Sara referred to them not being able to get the Big Trinity.  I rewound so I could see who they were dressed up as.  Uhhh.  I guess the REAL big-three don't exist in this universe?

I’m assuming you’re referring to Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman? If so - Superman exists, he just never shows up for any of the big battles; Batman has gone ghost; and Wonder Woman is probably still on Themescaria. 

[legaleagle53]

1 hour ago, BaggythePanther said:

I’m assuming you’re referring to Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman? If so - Superman exists, he just never shows up for any of the big battles; Batman has gone ghost; and Wonder Woman is probably still on Themescaria. 

Superman is currently in Argo City with Lois while they await the birth of their first child, plus he's never met the Legends and resides in Supergirl's Earth-38 universe. Batman has, as you say, disappeared from Gotham City, which is currently being run by his cousin Kate Kane aka Batwoman (who has also never met the Legends), and we've never established whether Wonder Woman even exists in this universe, although Themiscyra and the Amazons do (that's who trained Helen of Troy when Zari sent her to live there instead of returning her to Troy).

[ketose]

The trinity in this case is Green Arrow, The Flash and Supergirl because they're the ones on CW with shows right now. 

[BaggythePanther]

21 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

we've never established whether Wonder Woman even exists in this universe, although Themiscyra and the Amazons do (that's who trained Helen of Troy when Zari sent her to live there instead of returning her to Troy).

Helen probably wasn’t taken to Themiscyra in the revised timeline though. Sara wasn’t letting any of the guys get near Helen, so no way does she ask Behrad to take Helen back home. And Sara or Amaya wouldn’t have taken Helen to Themiscyra either.

[legaleagle53]

1 hour ago, BaggythePanther said:

Helen probably wasn’t taken to Themiscyra in the revised timeline though. Sara wasn’t letting any of the guys get near Helen, so no way does she ask Behrad to take Helen back home. And Sara or Amaya wouldn’t have taken Helen to Themiscyra either.

Why wouldn't they have? Sara understood why Zari bent the rules to take Helen to Themyscira instead of back to Troy, and Amaya, Charlie, Nora, Mona, and even Ava would have as well. Any of them would have been sympathetic to Helen's dilemma and would have done exactly what Zari did.

[BaggythePanther]

16 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

Why wouldn't they have? Sara understood why Zari bent the rules to take Helen to Themyscira instead of back to Troy, and Amaya, Charlie, Nora, Mona, and even Ava would have as well. Any of them would have been sympathetic to Helen's dilemma and would have done exactly what Zari did.

They met Helen back in season three so Charlie and Mona weren’t around. And at that point in season three Nora was an enemy and Ava was a hard ass who always followed the rules (everyone seems to forget that Ava wanted to send Zari back to the ARGUS prison because rescuing her could mess with the timeline).

Sara was pissed when she found out Zari didn’t take Helen back to Troy. Sara and Amaya may have sympathized with Helen, but neither thought to go out of their way to find a loophole to save her. 

So no, no one else would have done it.

[legaleagle53]

6 hours ago, BaggythePanther said:

They met Helen back in season three so Charlie and Mona weren’t around. And at that point in season three Nora was an enemy and Ava was a hard ass who always followed the rules (everyone seems to forget that Ava wanted to send Zari back to the ARGUS prison because rescuing her could mess with the timeline).

Sara was pissed when she found out Zari didn’t take Helen back to Troy. Sara and Amaya may have sympathized with Helen, but neither thought to go out of their way to find a loophole to save her. 

So no, no one else would have done it.

Yet Sara and Ava were ultimately glad that Zari did it, because when Ava and the Time Bureau teamed up with the Legends to take down Mallus, Ava specifically recruited the Themiscyra-trained Helen as one of their reinforcements -- and Helen kicked ass and took names.  So yeah, I think that Sara and Ava both in hindsight not only understood why Zari did what they did, but they were also glad that she did.

And I meant that Charlie and Mona WOULD have bent the rules the same as Zari did if they'd been around because they'd have been immediately sympathetic to Helen, especially Charlie, who knows what it's like to be condemned to an undeserved fate. And if Nora had been back then who she is now, she'd have done it, too, and for similar reasons. She knows what it is to have no control over your own destiny because she had no control over hers for the longest time.

[BaggythePanther]

1 hour ago, legaleagle53 said:

Yet Sara and Ava were ultimately glad that Zari did it, because when Ava and the Time Bureau teamed up with the Legends to take down Mallus, Ava specifically recruited the Themiscyra-trained Helen as one of their reinforcements -- and Helen kicked ass and took names.  So yeah, I think that Sara and Ava both in hindsight not only understood why Zari did what they did, but they were also glad that she did.

And I meant that Charlie and Mona WOULD have bent the rules the same as Zari did if they'd been around because they'd have been immediately sympathetic to Helen, especially Charlie, who knows what it's like to be condemned to an undeserved fate. And if Nora had been back then who she is now, she'd have done it, too, and for similar reasons. She knows what it is to have no control over your own destiny because she had no control over hers for the longest time.

I have no idea why season 4 characters got brought into this since my original post was about how the events of episode 3x6 would change with Behrad on the team. But yeah, those ladies are rebels too.

I see your point that it’s possible that Sara or Amaya could’ve taken Helen to Themyscira. 

[ketose]

It's almost like the writers didn't consider the implications of their actions.

[statsgirl]

On 6/1/2019 at 10:42 PM, mac123x said:

I wasn't looking at the screen when Sara referred to them not being able to get the Big Trinity.  I rewound so I could see who they were dressed up as.  Uhhh.  I guess the REAL big-three don't exist in this universe?

I took "the Big Trinity" to be Oliver, Kara and Barry, which is why Sara et al. had to dress up as them for the commercial.

[johntfs]

On 6/2/2019 at 8:57 PM, BaggythePanther said:

Helen probably wasn’t taken to Themiscyra in the revised timeline though. Sara wasn’t letting any of the guys get near Helen, so no way does she ask Behrad to take Helen back home. And Sara or Amaya wouldn’t have taken Helen to Themiscyra either.

Perhaps Behrad made his case for sending Helen to Themiscyra directly and openly to Sara and the rest of the team instead of going behind Sara's back like Zari did.  Or maybe Behrad is gay and perhaps unaffected by Helen's mojo.  Or the magic totem he wears shielded him from her mojo.  There's plenty of reasons that Helen ended up in Themiscyra despite Zari's absence.

[BaggythePanther]

On 6/9/2019 at 12:31 AM, johntfs said:

Perhaps Behrad made his case for sending Helen to Themiscyra directly and openly to Sara and the rest of the team instead of going behind Sara's back like Zari did.  Or maybe Behrad is gay and perhaps unaffected by Helen's mojo.  Or the magic totem he wears shielded him from her mojo.  There's plenty of reasons that Helen ended up in Themiscyra despite Zari's absence.

I’ve probably said this before it I really hope we get an episode showing us Behrad’s time on the ship because I’d love to see how certain events occurred differently.

I really hope Behrad isn’t gay. Enough people ship him with Nate already.

[Proteus]

1 hour ago, BaggythePanther said:

I’ve probably said this before it I really hope we get an episode showing us Behrad’s time on the ship because I’d love to see how certain events occurred differently.

I really hope Behrad isn’t gay. Enough people ship him with Nate already.

LOL, really?

[Bruinsfan]

I'm not sure that would even matter on a show where people get transformed into cats and puppets, and someone's raised from the dead by people singing Kumbaya.

NATE: This explains a lot. It didn't make much sense when Behrad and I ended up dating despite us both being straight.

ZARI: Trust me, it came out of nowhere when it was you and me too.