S01.E22: Luna

[LittleIggy]

Apologies to my cats and my neighbors for yelling “F*ck!” when that ambulance crash occurred. Anyway, where was Helen in the aftermath? Thank goodness Max is a human car seat and protected baby Luna. WTF wasn’t that idiot attorney handcuffed to the hospital bed?

Glad Reynolds grew a spine re: his judgmental mother.

Edited May 15, 2019 by LittleIggy

[karenc3]

I was curious about Helen also, they didn't show her at all.  That ambulance crash was a surprise.  

[SunnyBeBe]

I only caught it towards the end. What a shocker. I couldn't tell much. I was caught off guard.

[yourdreamer]

So that is one way to have Bloom not come back next season. I liked her and wish she would have. I preferred the cardio doctor with her than bland lawyer lady too. 

Iggy and the bomb guy was some intense stuff. I wonder if the guy who saved the patient died and that was why he purged it from his consciousness? I don’t understand really why Kapoor was in there for therapy either. 

I hope Helen is okay, moreso than Georgia or Max even. I tested up at all the doctors rushing to help at the end, even cardio doctor who just had a full meal. 

[LittleIggy]

16 minutes ago, yourdreamer said:

So that is one way to have Bloom not come back next season. I liked her and wish she would have. I preferred the cardio doctor with her than bland lawyer lady too. 

Iggy and the bomb guy was some intense stuff. I wonder if the guy who saved the patient died and that was why he purged it from his consciousness? I don’t understand really why Kapoor was in there for therapy either. 

My thought was because he is a neurologist and was there to monitor the use of the Xstacy, but Kapoor is a neurosurgeon, isn’t he? So, never mind.

I thought this was actually the best episode of the season.

[doodlebug]

As an OB/BGYN, my only reaction  to the first 10 minutes was 'What the bluedilly fu*K?????'

Several observations:

-placenta previas do not 'rupture', Max.  Use your big boy words.

-speaking of big boy words, Max is a physician, he knows how to summon help in an emergency.  Squawking at 911 to hurry up while not even telling them what the exact emergency is is not helpful.  Telling them his wife is pregnant and hemorrhaging will help them a lot more than asking for paramedics rather than EMT's. 

-for those of you planning to do surgery at home, boil your kitchen utensils for at least 20 minutes.  Also, a paring knife would make a much better scalpel than a butcher knife.

-apropos to the above, if the squad is going to be there in 12 minutes. there is no way that anyone, even an actual obstetrician is going to be able to put together a DIY surgical set and ligate the uterine arteries in less than that. 

-Also, Bloom, there are TWO uterine arteries, not one, and, if you're trying to stop bleeding, you're going to need to know that.  You are also going to encounter a lot of different smaller vessels on the way to the arteries which are going to bleed when you cut them.  How did she tie any of them off?  Did her Girl Scout first aid kit have suture in it?

-if one is going to perform DIY home surgery, I would suggest turning on a light or two.  There's a reason that OR's have those great big lights hanging from the ceiling.  Doing a cesarean section, on a bed, in a poorly lit room with curtains drawn really isn't the way to go.

-why did they have a fetal monitor in their bedroom?  Also, who told Bloom that a baby cannot tolerate two dips in its heartrate before croaking?

-why didn't Max wash the blood off his hands?  He was setting up and assisting with home surgery but he never washed his hands?  EWWWW!!!

-when Max opened the door, he had blood all over the lower half of his shirt and on his hands.  Wife was bleeding from a placenta previa, so the blood was coming from her privates.  Exactly how did the bottom of Max' shirt and hands get covered in it?  Was she straddling his midsection when she started bleeding.  Another EWWWWW!!!!

ETA: I did love the stuff with the cardiac surgeon at Sunday dinner, especially his reaction,  And, my God, Leslie Uggums gets more beautiful with age.  She is 75 years young!

Edited May 15, 2019 by doodlebug

[doodlebug]

7 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

My thought was because he is a neurologist and was there to monitor the use of the Xstacy, but Kapoor is a neurosurgeon, isn’t he? So, never mind.

I thought this was actually the best episode of the season.

He's supposed to be a neurologist, I think, but the show has him go back and forth depending on the plot.  The ecstasy plotline was nonsense though.  I do think Kapoor and Izzy as friends is my favorite part of the show, though.

The FDA has really strict guidelines on the use of controlled substances, especially those which have no medical use such as LSD and ecstasy.  Max couldn't 'sign off' on it and the hospital wouldn't have a supply sitting around someplace for anyone to access anyway.  Using these sorts of drugs requires a special license from the FDA which is only issued to practitioners who present a specific research project for its use with supporting documentation and funding for it.  It would take months, if not years, to develop a program like that and, then, Izzy's patient would have to fit the strict criteria for subjects to be accepted.  Signing off while rushing off to another floor wouldn't happen.

Edited May 15, 2019 by doodlebug

[Kelda Feegle]

I replayed the accident a few times (mainly to chuckle at the extra as ambo who trips on his way to help) and Bloom shouldn't be at the back of the accident based on her position. No sign of Helen anywhere.

Don't care about Mrs Max or baby but I was surprised Mrs Max lived - thought we'd go for the whole tragic single Dad trying to run a hospital narrative.

[DearEvette]

Sigh.  This show just can't help itself can it?  It is ending on a season 5 cliffhanger in season 1. 

No sign of Helen and Bloom looks critically injured.  So of course all the promos for next season will be who died.  Sigh.

Don't care about Georgia but I am glad they didn't kill her off so predictably.

Floy'ds family dinner.  Whew mama!  On the one hand I liked the little posturing between Evie and Floyd's sister over their respective colleges (HBCU vs. PWI)  that conversation has happened in my household.  And then their instant sisterhood upon they were sorors. But the whole conversation with his mother and the family dynamic was too, too much.  I kept thinking to myself, if he doesn't want Evie because of some theoretical family structure, then she dodged a big ass bullet.  Also, no frickin' way I am spending every Sunday with my in-laws.  Oh Hells, no! I mean, I love them an all, but no.

[VAMom]

My reaction after the accident was, seriously?  This show is ridiculous 😂

[preeya]

2 hours ago, doodlebug said:

As an OB/BGYN, my only reaction  to the first 10 minutes was 'What the bluedilly fu*K?????'

Several observations:

-placenta previas do not 'rupture', Max.  Use your big boy words.

-speaking of big boy words, Max is a physician, he knows how to summon help in an emergency.  Squawking at 911 to hurry up while not even telling them what the exact emergency is is not helpful.  Telling them his wife is pregnant and hemorrhaging will help them a lot more than asking for paramedics rather than EMT's. 

-for those of you planning to do surgery at home, boil your kitchen utensils for at least 20 minutes.  Also, a paring knife would make a much better scalpel than a butcher knife.

-apropos to the above, if the squad is going to be there in 12 minutes. there is no way that anyone, even an actual obstetrician is going to be able to put together a DIY surgical set and ligate the uterine arteries in less than that. 

-Also, Bloom, there are TWO uterine arteries, not one, and, if you're trying to stop bleeding, you're going to need to know that.  You are also going to encounter a lot of different smaller vessels on the way to the arteries which are going to bleed when you cut them.  How did she tie any of them off?  Did her Girl Scout first aid kit have suture in it?

-if one is going to perform DIY home surgery, I would suggest turning on a light or two.  There's a reason that OR's have those great big lights hanging from the ceiling.  Doing a cesarean section, on a bed, in a poorly lit room with curtains drawn really isn't the way to go.

-why did they have a fetal monitor in their bedroom?  Also, who told Bloom that a baby cannot tolerate two dips in its heartrate before croaking?

-why didn't Max wash the blood off his hands?  He was setting up and assisting with home surgery but he never washed his hands?  EWWWW!!!

-when Max opened the door, he had blood all over the lower half of his shirt and on his hands.  Wife was bleeding from a placenta previa, so the blood was coming from her privates.  Exactly how did the bottom of Max' shirt and hands get covered in it?  Was she straddling his midsection when she started bleeding.  Another EWWWWW!!!!

ETA: I did love the stuff with the cardiac surgeon at Sunday dinner, especially his reaction,  And, my God, Leslie Uggums gets more beautiful with age.  She is 75 years young!

Perhaps you should apply for a job on medical shows as a "Reality Consultant." I can think of four that could use your expertise. (this one along with Chicago Med, The Resident, and The Good Doctor) There may be more.

Edited May 15, 2019 by preeya

[cathmed]

Could have done without the Xtasy storyline.

Same sentiment as others have expressed.   Glad to see Dr. Reynolds had backbone and didn't listen to his overbearing mother or sister.  He is a grown a$$ man so yeah, it's time for him to make his own traditions and memories.

The oh-so-predictable crash at the end - WOW - Hasn't that trope been done to death in too many shows and soap operas?  Seriously, they couldn't have thought of a better cliffhanger?  I looked for Helen as well so that will be the mystery for the start of S2.  Is Max's wife dead or will she make it after the crash?  Personally, I hope they write out Georgia's character; she didn't ad any value.    Looks like Lauren has been written out permanently--no way she would have survived that crash-but glad she made amends with Helen before her demise.  BTW, that was Bloom's best performance this season; maybe rehab also saved her, lol!

2 hours ago, doodlebug said:

As an OB/BGYN, my only reaction  to the first 10 minutes was 'What the bluedilly fu*K?????'

Several observations:

-placenta previas do not 'rupture', Max.  Use your big boy words.

-speaking of big boy words, Max is a physician, he knows how to summon help in an emergency.  Squawking at 911 to hurry up while not even telling them what the exact emergency is is not helpful.  Telling them his wife is pregnant and hemorrhaging will help them a lot more than asking for paramedics rather than EMT's. 

-for those of you planning to do surgery at home, boil your kitchen utensils for at least 20 minutes.  Also, a paring knife would make a much better scalpel than a butcher knife.

-apropos to the above, if the squad is going to be there in 12 minutes. there is no way that anyone, even an actual obstetrician is going to be able to put together a DIY surgical set and ligate the uterine arteries in less than that. 

-Also, Bloom, there are TWO uterine arteries, not one, and, if you're trying to stop bleeding, you're going to need to know that.  You are also going to encounter a lot of different smaller vessels on the way to the arteries which are going to bleed when you cut them.  How did she tie any of them off?  Did her Girl Scout first aid kit have suture in it?

-if one is going to perform DIY home surgery, I would suggest turning on a light or two.  There's a reason that OR's have those great big lights hanging from the ceiling.  Doing a cesarean section, on a bed, in a poorly lit room with curtains drawn really isn't the way to go.

-why did they have a fetal monitor in their bedroom?  Also, who told Bloom that a baby cannot tolerate two dips in its heartrate before croaking?

-why didn't Max wash the blood off his hands?  He was setting up and assisting with home surgery but he never washed his hands?  EWWWW!!!

-when Max opened the door, he had blood all over the lower half of his shirt and on his hands.  Wife was bleeding from a placenta previa, so the blood was coming from her privates.  Exactly how did the bottom of Max' shirt and hands get covered in it?  Was she straddling his midsection when she started bleeding.  Another EWWWWW!!!!

ETA: I did love the stuff with the cardiac surgeon at Sunday dinner, especially his reaction,  And, my God, Leslie Uggums gets more beautiful with age.  She is 75 years young!

C'mon now, you're ruining the story with your logic, LOL!!   And yes, Leslie Uggams looks good for 75!

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, Kelda Feegle said:

I replayed the accident a few times (mainly to chuckle at the extra as ambo who trips on his way to help) and Bloom shouldn't be at the back of the accident based on her position. No sign of Helen anywhere.

Don't care about Mrs Max or baby but I was surprised Mrs Max lived - thought we'd go for the whole tragic single Dad trying to run a hospital narrative.

Yeah, I really didn't understand the logistics of how exactly the accident happened.  I get that the lawyer/drug mule somehow left the ER and got to a higher floor and jumped, coming through the windshield of the first ambulance; but I don't get how the ambulance following ended up on its side.  They were pulling up to the ER entrance, they do slow down as they arrive so as to stop the vehicle.  Ambulances are top heavy, but they shouldn't roll onto their sides like that at slow speeds.

BTW, as a resident, I was once eating lunch in the residents' lunch room which had a wall of windows.  I was seated facing away from them.  My lunch mates on the other side of the table suddenly jumped out of their seats and yelled, 'Hey, some guy just fell past the windows!!'  We were on the second floor.  The guy was in the psych ward, he took a chair and managed to break one of the so-called unbreakable windows up there and jumped from the fourth floor and landed on a car.  They called a Code Blue about 10 seconds after he fell.  They went out, scraped him off the car and took him to the ER where he was immediately pronounced.  Freaky stuff.  I also saw a suicide committed with a ballpoint pen which would make an excellent plot for a TV show; it was unbelievable that someone could figure out how to do kill himself with a pen.  The guy was a genius.  Suicidal, but brilliant.

Edited May 15, 2019 by doodlebug

[DearEvette]

22 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

I get that the lawyer/drug mule somehow left the ER and got to a higher floor and jumped, coming through the windshield of the first ambulance; but I don't get how the ambulance following ended up on its side. 

Is that what happened?  Cuz, yeah it was confusing at the end there.  I thought he somehow got away and stole the ambulance and caused the crash because in the quick cut it looked like his was thrown halfway through the window from the inside.

[KittenPokerCheater]

Did the coke lawyer jump from the hopsital room and land on an ambulance, or was he driving it?  

I hope that Georgia (and Luna, since children always muck up overly earnest shows like NA) aren’t back next season. 

If Helen isn’t back, I will probably stop watching.  She is the most interesting character.

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

Did the coke lawyer jump from the hopsital room and land on an ambulance, or was he driving it?  

I hope that Georgia (and Luna, since children always muck up overly earnest shows like NA) aren’t back next season. 

If Helen isn’t back, I will probably stop watching.  She is the most interesting character.

Now that you mention it, I guess he could've been driving and gotten thrown through the windshield.  Though, once again, they were in the ambulance bay, even if he had his foot on the pedal to the floor, how fast could he have been going if he was just pulling away?  Fast enough to get tossed through the windshield doesn't seem logical, but nothing on this show seems logical.  Also, ambulances, even ones that are left running in an emergency, usually have safety locks that prevent just anyone from hopping in and driving away.  But, once again, I'm thinking logically here.

If you're trying to escape the cops, taking an ambulance rather than just walking away and getting lost in the crowd in NYC is not the best option, IMO.

Edited May 15, 2019 by doodlebug

[preeya]

28 minutes ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

Did the coke lawyer jump from the hopsital room and land on an ambulance, or was he driving it?  

Looks as if he went through the windshield, so he was probably driving. BUT, as someone else mentioned if they were in or near the ambulance bay(s), how did they get up to the speeds necessary to cause such devastation??

[Good Queen Jane]

The impression I got was that the crash wasn't in the ambulance bay at the hospital. The ambulance Max et al were in was on the street. at an intersection. You can see the ambulance the druggie lawyer was driving coming on the street through the right side window of Max's ambulance just before the crash. In the aftermath, other ambulances are pulling up at the site and EMTs responding, not hospital staff. I also thought I saw a body covered with a white cloth on the ground near Max's ambulance, which may or may not be Helen.

[Dowel Jones]

4 hours ago, doodlebug said:

The FDA has really strict guidelines on the use of controlled substances, especially those which have no medical use such as LSD and ecstasy.

I remember a scene on ER, I think, where one of the patients was a user of medicinal marijuana, and needed some at the hospital.  Of course, none of it stored on site, so the doctors are asking each other where to get some.  They all look at the black MD and he blows up at them, saying "Oh, just because I'm black, I'm supposed to know all about weed? WTF!"

I wonder if Iggy is going to bill the patient for the use of the Ecstasy.

That was really dumb of Max to order the ambulance to return to the hospital to pick up more gear.  I get why they would want a second ambulance, but, reality check, ambulances carry a shitload of gear, like oxygen bottles. for all kinds of medical emergencies.  Transportation is much more crucial than treating on site.  And then, they all load into one ambulance anyway, and appear to be traveling at a sedate speed all the way back to the hospital. 

I didn't even catch that the attorney was in the other ambulance.  That scene went by too quickly.  That explains to me how the target ambulance never saw him, but they should have.  Always check the side streets.

Other than plot requirements, why was Dr. Sharpe necessary for the trip? She is, as was exclaimed, the medical director for the hospital, which, presumably, has other patients that may need care and decisions made for them.  Not to mention budgeting, finding rewarding jobs for people, fixing roof leaks, etc....

[LittleIggy]

The lawyer stole the ambo.

[doodlebug]

22 hours ago, Good Queen Jane said:

The impression I got was that the crash wasn't in the ambulance bay at the hospital. The ambulance Max et al were in was on the street. at an intersection. You can see the ambulance the druggie lawyer was driving coming on the street through the right side window of Max's ambulance just before the crash. In the aftermath, other ambulances are pulling up at the site and EMTs responding, not hospital staff. I also thought I saw a body covered with a white cloth on the ground near Max's ambulance, which may or may not be Helen.

OK, but how fast can an ambulance travel on crowded NYC streets?  It makes a little more sense if they weren't at the hospital, though I thought it looked like they were.    I still don't get how an accident that devastating could occur in midday in Manhatten in the traffic that we saw.  The lawyer couldn't have gotten too far from the hospital if only because, if he was running red lights and stop signs; there was so much traffic that he'd have run into someone sooner than later.

Thanks to everyone here for clarifying the events at the end of the episode for me.  I was apparently still so traumatized by the obstetric mayhem that I wasn't able to comprehend what I was seeing.  I think I have PTSD, maybe I should get some Ecstasy.

Edited May 16, 2019 by doodlebug

[sempervivum]

23 minutes ago, Good Queen Jane said:

I also thought I saw a body covered with a white cloth on the ground near Max's ambulance, which may or may not be Helen.

I saw this too. I assumed it was Helen, but hoping it's Mrs. Saint Max.

I have to say, I haven't watched this show for a couple of months and only tuned in because what I usually watch wasn't on. Thought I'd be completely unfamiliar with what was going on, but I was wrong-same old, same old. The only thing I didn't understand was Saint Max's knit hat-is this a fashion choice or a plot point?

[preeya]

14 minutes ago, sempervivum said:

The only thing I didn't understand was Saint Max's knit hat-is this a fashion choice or a plot point?

He started wearing it because he had some phantom hair loss (??) due to his chemo treatments. He's had it on for weeks now and his looks/attire have been compared to that of being homeless (which he is not).

ETA: the full bead obviously doesn't fit the plotline.

Edited May 15, 2019 by preeya

[alexvillage]

Georgia is fine, loaded in the ambulance with Kappor by her side.

Bloom's leg is twisted the wrong way, she is given chest compressions, but at the end (aerial view) the people working on her (ER doctor that took over for Bloom) are rushing with a gurney (that is, if they are going to care about continuity) so she is still alive at this point.

One of the paramedics flew through the window, an there is a dead person covered - the cliffhanger is, is this Helen? Logically, it would be her the dead body, according to the position - the guy who flew out should be in front of the ambulance, not by its side.

Since we know logic doesn't play well in this show, I will go with only one of the paramedics died, Bloom will not be seen again, Helen is fine. Time jump to Max getting better from the new treatment that Sharpe devised for him. 

Edited May 15, 2019 by alexvillage

[alexvillage]

The writers went way overdramatic with the lawyer story. Was he under arrest? Because if not, all he had to do was to walk out, no need to steal an ambulance. As I understood, he was brought in because the police saw him swallowing a bag of coke. But if they didn't have a warranty, they were violating his 4th amendment rights by arresting on suspicion and waiting for him to pass the bag (or die). And the guy is a lawyer, ffs!

This show is illogical not only in medicine, but everything else. 

[Good Queen Jane]

Also, you have to admire the dedication of the New Amsterdam staff. It's Sunday afternoon (per Reynolds family Sunday dinner). Iggy and Kapoor are treating patients, the administrative assistant to the medical director is carrying on with office work, and Reynolds and the hospital lawyer decide to hang out at the hospital after getting engaged.

[perkie1968]

I've rewatched that last scene three times and this is what I understand from what I saw.

The accident did not happen in the ambulance bay, but looked like it was down the street from the hospital.

The lawyer stole the ambulance and crashed into them from a side street.  How one gets the keys to an ambulane or why he thought he'd solve all his problems by stealing one in wacky.    We see him lying on the dash of the ambulance, having gone through his windshield.  Unsure if dead or alive.

The main ambulance, Bloom was standing, talking to the two paramedics and we saw her go through the windshield and then the ambulance flipped over, so that explains why she's not a the front but to the side on the ground.  She is shown being taken by gurney down the street to the hospital.

Paramedic driver is shown on the ground by his door.  

Mrs Max is shown on a gurney and for strange reasons is taken to a third ambulance, though why she isn't transported down the street to the hospital the same way Bloom is, is a mystery.

How Max didn't suffer more injuries than what we've seen, seeing as the ambulance hit from the side he was sitting on, is also a mystery.  

And the final mystery, no sign of Helen at all in those final scenes, but a very clear shot of a body being covered by a white tarp.  That is either 2nd paramedic who was in the passenger seat or Helen.  

[alexvillage]

1 hour ago, Good Queen Jane said:

Also, you have to admire the dedication of the New Amsterdam staff. It's Sunday afternoon (per Reynolds family Sunday dinner). Iggy and Kapoor are treating patients, the administrative assistant to the medical director is carrying on with office work, and Reynolds and the hospital lawyer decide to hang out at the hospital after getting engaged.

I guess you forgot /rolls eyes/

[ams1001]

11 hours ago, doodlebug said:

-speaking of big boy words, Max is a physician, he knows how to summon help in an emergency.  Squawking at 911 to hurry up while not even telling them what the exact emergency is is not helpful.  Telling them his wife is pregnant and hemorrhaging will help them a lot more than asking for paramedics rather than EMT's. 

Ugh, I'm not any kind of health professional and it drives me nuts when shows do that. Whenever there's a news story about a little kid saving someone by calling 911, even they know to tell the dispatcher what they see happening (they're not breathing/they won't wake up/etc.) and answer their questions. There was a story a few months ago about a kid who called 911 for his diabetic grandfather who had lost consciousness. He was, like, 7 and he did a better job of describing the situation. A doctor should be able to do better than a 7-year-old.

11 hours ago, doodlebug said:

-for those of you planning to do surgery at home, boil your kitchen utensils for at least 20 minutes.  Also, a paring knife would make a much better scalpel than a butcher knife.

Good to know. 😉

11 hours ago, doodlebug said:

The FDA has really strict guidelines on the use of controlled substances, especially those which have no medical use such as LSD and ecstasy.

I was wondering about that. I've heard a little about research and (maybe?) possible clinical uses for such drugs, but I didn't think they'd be something the average hospital shrink could get their hands on at this point. So thanks for clarifying that.

[doodlebug]

Sorry to keep harping on it, but I just realized I left out the mot important point about the obstetric scenario in the episode.  Here's the deal:

Georgia was bleeding from a placenta previa which was starting to separate from the wall of her uterus.  Bloom decided that the way to stop the bleeding was to tie off the uterine arteries (she said artery, but there are two).  That would stop the bleeding by cutting off blood flow to the uterus, and since the placenta is attached to the uterus, would also decrease the blood flow to the placenta.  There is no way to do one without the other.  So, what happens if tying off the arteries slows down the bleeding?  The amount of blood flow to the uterus itself is drastically compromised, which means the placenta loses it's source of oxygen and nourishment for the baby.  In other words, tying off the uterine arteries would cut off the source of the vast majority of oxygen flowing through the uterus to the placenta and the baby.  In my experience, babies in the womb do better with oxygen than without.  So, Max didn't want to choose between his wife and baby so Bloom chose for him.  In real life, the kid would've died within minutes of its oxygen supply being so drastically decreased.

BTW, in someone who is full term pregnant, when you open up the belly, the vast majority of the space is taken up by the uterus.  The uterine arteries, left and right, would be off on the sides, and not on top, but deep in the belly going up the middle of each side of the uterus.  Reaching these arteries while the uterus is filled with a full term baby would require a huge incision and using multiple retractors to push the uterus out of the way and would run the risk of injuring the accompanying veins which tear really easily and are about as big around as your index finger in pregnancy.  So, the odds that Bloom, who is not even a surgeon let alone an obstetrician, could tie off the arteries successfully without causing major damage to other blood vessels, the ureters, the bowel or who knows what else, is slim to none.  The first incision they showed, on the right side of Georgia's abdomen and about the size and position of an appendectomy in a non-pregnant belly, would never have worked.

I have tied off uterine arteries multiple times., always after delivery when the uterus is a lot smaller and its easier to see.  I've done over a thousand cesareans.  I guarantee that it takes far, far less time to deliver the kiddo that it would to tie off the arteries which is just one more reason why Bloom was an idiot not to deliver the kid first if she really thought surgery was the way to go, which it wasn't.  I can do a cesarean on virtually anyone and have the baby out in a minute or less.  Nobody can isolate and tie off both uterine arteries, particularly with a pregnant uterus in the way in anywhere near that time.

[preeya]

17 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

Sorry to keep harping on it, but I just realized I left out the mot important point about the obstetric scenario in the episode.  Here's the deal:

Georgia was bleeding from a placenta previa which was starting to separate from the wall of her uterus.  Bloom decided that the way to stop the bleeding was to tie off the uterine arteries (she said artery, but there are two).  That would stop the bleeding by cutting off blood flow to the uterus, and since the placenta is attached to the uterus, would also decrease the blood flow to the placenta.  There is no way to do one without the other.  So, what happens if tying off the arteries slows down the bleeding?  The amount of blood flow to the uterus itself is drastically compromised, which means the placenta loses it's source of oxygen and nourishment for the baby.  In other words, tying off the uterine arteries would cut off the source of the vast majority of oxygen flowing through the uterus to the placenta and the baby.  In my experience, babies in the womb do better with oxygen than without.  So, Max didn't want to choose between his wife and baby so Bloom chose for him.  In real life, the kid would've died within minutes of its oxygen supply being so drastically decreased.

BTW, in someone who is full term pregnant, when you open up the belly, the vast majority of the space is taken up by the uterus.  The uterine arteries, left and right, would be off on the sides, and not on top, but deep in the belly going up the middle of each side of the uterus.  Reaching these arteries while the uterus is filled with a full term baby would require a huge incision and using multiple retractors to push the uterus out of the way and would run the risk of injuring the accompanying veins which tear really easily and are about as big around as your index finger in pregnancy.  So, the odds that Bloom, who is not even a surgeon let alone an obstetrician, could tie off the arteries successfully without causing major damage to other blood vessels, the ureters, the bowel or who knows what else, is slim to none.  The first incision they showed, on the right side of Georgia's abdomen and about the size and position of an appendectomy in a non-pregnant belly, would never have worked.

I have tied off uterine arteries multiple times., always after delivery when the uterus is a lot smaller and its easier to see.  I've done over a thousand cesareans.  I guarantee that it takes far, far less time to deliver the kiddo that it would to tie off the arteries which is just one more reason why Bloom was an idiot not to deliver the kid first if she really thought surgery was the way to go, which it wasn't.  I can do a cesarean on virtually anyone and have the baby out in a minute or less.  Nobody can isolate and tie off both uterine arteries, particularly with a pregnant uterus in the way in anywhere near that time.

@doodlebug: It reads as if you are a doctor or PA with oodles of expertise; why do you torture yourself watching this dreck or is it for comedic reasons?

[rhys]

Also, doodle, what was with the vertical incision?

[MakeMeLaugh]

This is only the second New Amsterdam episode we watched here at the MML house, but since we have tortured ourselves with every effing episode of Chicago Med, I can only say the Chicago Med bar has been well cleared by the NA writers and cast and we found it riveting. 

Although I think there may have been a little writing theft of Crazy Rich Asians in Grandma Leslie's unhappiness with the potential fiancee....

[starri]

3 hours ago, ams1001 said:

I was wondering about that. I've heard a little about research and (maybe?) possible clinical uses for such drugs, but I didn't think they'd be something the average hospital shrink could get their hands on at this point. So thanks for clarifying that.

There are a number of clinics that do ketamine infusion treatments for depression and PTSD.  I know of two in Manhattan.  Although that's given intravenously and not as a pill, so I have no idea what they were going for with that.  There's also a new ketamine derivative that's being marketed under the name Spravato, which is a nasal spray that's just been approved to treat severe depression.  

The part that didn't make sense to me was that they weren't using the ketamine in the way it's usually used therapeutically.  That appeared to be more like a thiopental interview, which is an old, old, old psychiatric technique where a patient is administered sodium thiopental (basically truth serum, although that's a bad description) and they're guided through talking about their traumas because the drug has relaxed them enough to be able confront things.

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, starri said:

There are a number of clinics that do ketamine infusion treatments for depression and PTSD.  I know of two in Manhattan.  Although that's given intravenously and not as a pill, so I have no idea what they were going for with that.  There's also a new ketamine derivative that's being marketed under the name Spravato, which is a nasal spray that's just been approved to treat severe depression.  

The part that didn't make sense to me was that they weren't using the ketamine in the way it's usually used therapeutically.  That appeared to be more like a thiopental interview, which is an old, old, old psychiatric technique where a patient is administered sodium thiopental (basically truth serum, although that's a bad description) and they're guided through talking about their traumas because the drug has relaxed them enough to be able confront things.

Exactly.  I think the show decided that it would be 'sexier' to call the drug Ecstasy and pretend that the form used on the street was the way to go in treating PTSD.  Unfortunately, I think it is a little bit dangerous to do that since it might mean someone suffering PTSD might try to get the drug on the street and self-treat.  A lot of the drug on the street is adulterated with other substances and is meant originally for use by veterinarians.

Ketamine used to be legal and was often used with sedation for anesthesia for procedures.  I saw more than a couple of patients having very vivid hallucinations after being given it.  All of the ones I saw were 'good' trips, people seeing nice things and being happy about it.

5 hours ago, preeya said:

@doodlebug: It reads as if you are a doctor or PA with oodles of expertise; why do you torture yourself watching this dreck or is it for comedic reasons?

I'm not tortured by it or I wouldn't watch it, believe me.  I usually only start watching this stuff because someone recommends it to me.  I've never seen an episode of Gray's anatomy or any other medical show currently on the air.  The only other medical show I watched frequently was ER which was miles better than this one.

5 hours ago, rhys said:

Also, doodle, what was with the vertical incision?

We used to do them all the time for cesareans 35 years ago, maybe Bloom is older than she looks?  I presume it was for the drama of it or the special effects people thought it looked more realistic.

[bros402]

19 hours ago, doodlebug said:

As an OB/BGYN, my only reaction  to the first 10 minutes was 'What the bluedilly fu*K?????'

Several observations:

-placenta previas do not 'rupture', Max.  Use your big boy words.

-speaking of big boy words, Max is a physician, he knows how to summon help in an emergency.  Squawking at 911 to hurry up while not even telling them what the exact emergency is is not helpful.  Telling them his wife is pregnant and hemorrhaging will help them a lot more than asking for paramedics rather than EMT's. 

-for those of you planning to do surgery at home, boil your kitchen utensils for at least 20 minutes.  Also, a paring knife would make a much better scalpel than a butcher knife.

-apropos to the above, if the squad is going to be there in 12 minutes. there is no way that anyone, even an actual obstetrician is going to be able to put together a DIY surgical set and ligate the uterine arteries in less than that. 

-Also, Bloom, there are TWO uterine arteries, not one, and, if you're trying to stop bleeding, you're going to need to know that.  You are also going to encounter a lot of different smaller vessels on the way to the arteries which are going to bleed when you cut them.  How did she tie any of them off?  Did her Girl Scout first aid kit have suture in it?

-if one is going to perform DIY home surgery, I would suggest turning on a light or two.  There's a reason that OR's have those great big lights hanging from the ceiling.  Doing a cesarean section, on a bed, in a poorly lit room with curtains drawn really isn't the way to go.

-why did they have a fetal monitor in their bedroom?  Also, who told Bloom that a baby cannot tolerate two dips in its heartrate before croaking?

-why didn't Max wash the blood off his hands?  He was setting up and assisting with home surgery but he never washed his hands?  EWWWW!!!

-when Max opened the door, he had blood all over the lower half of his shirt and on his hands.  Wife was bleeding from a placenta previa, so the blood was coming from her privates.  Exactly how did the bottom of Max' shirt and hands get covered in it?  Was she straddling his midsection when she started bleeding.  Another EWWWWW!!!!

ETA: I did love the stuff with the cardiac surgeon at Sunday dinner, especially his reaction,  And, my God, Leslie Uggums gets more beautiful with age.  She is 75 years young!

With the fetal monitor, let's just say that Max got one because he is paranoid as hell, or maybe Georgia got it.

Who knows what unspeakable acts Max & Georgia were doing when the placenta started to bleed.

7 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Sorry to keep harping on it, but I just realized I left out the mot important point about the obstetric scenario in the episode.  Here's the deal:

Georgia was bleeding from a placenta previa which was starting to separate from the wall of her uterus.  Bloom decided that the way to stop the bleeding was to tie off the uterine arteries (she said artery, but there are two).  That would stop the bleeding by cutting off blood flow to the uterus, and since the placenta is attached to the uterus, would also decrease the blood flow to the placenta.  There is no way to do one without the other.  So, what happens if tying off the arteries slows down the bleeding?  The amount of blood flow to the uterus itself is drastically compromised, which means the placenta loses it's source of oxygen and nourishment for the baby.  In other words, tying off the uterine arteries would cut off the source of the vast majority of oxygen flowing through the uterus to the placenta and the baby.  In my experience, babies in the womb do better with oxygen than without.  So, Max didn't want to choose between his wife and baby so Bloom chose for him.  In real life, the kid would've died within minutes of its oxygen supply being so drastically decreased.

BTW, in someone who is full term pregnant, when you open up the belly, the vast majority of the space is taken up by the uterus.  The uterine arteries, left and right, would be off on the sides, and not on top, but deep in the belly going up the middle of each side of the uterus.  Reaching these arteries while the uterus is filled with a full term baby would require a huge incision and using multiple retractors to push the uterus out of the way and would run the risk of injuring the accompanying veins which tear really easily and are about as big around as your index finger in pregnancy.  So, the odds that Bloom, who is not even a surgeon let alone an obstetrician, could tie off the arteries successfully without causing major damage to other blood vessels, the ureters, the bowel or who knows what else, is slim to none.  The first incision they showed, on the right side of Georgia's abdomen and about the size and position of an appendectomy in a non-pregnant belly, would never have worked.

I have tied off uterine arteries multiple times., always after delivery when the uterus is a lot smaller and its easier to see.  I've done over a thousand cesareans.  I guarantee that it takes far, far less time to deliver the kiddo that it would to tie off the arteries which is just one more reason why Bloom was an idiot not to deliver the kid first if she really thought surgery was the way to go, which it wasn't.  I can do a cesarean on virtually anyone and have the baby out in a minute or less.  Nobody can isolate and tie off both uterine arteries, particularly with a pregnant uterus in the way in anywhere near that time.

You need to start a website and review medical shows - like that doctor who did reviews for every episode of House.

[Kelda Feegle]

I'm not that kind of doctor but I believe that a vertical incision is used where speed is necessary and the determining factor. 

Body under the sheet on the street is a paramedic I'm pretty sure,  there is one frame where it looks like big black boot soles.

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, Kelda Feegle said:

I'm not that kind of doctor but I believe that a vertical incision is used where speed is necessary and the determining factor. 

Body under the sheet on the street is a paramedic I'm pretty sure,  there is one frame where it looks like big black boot soles.

Back in the old days, low midline incisions were thought to be quicker.  Nowadays (as in the past 25 or more years), anyone who can do a cesarean can do it just as quickly with a Pfannenstiel (bikini cut) incision as through a low vertical.  There are bilateral veins that need tied off in the sub-Q, but, if you're in a hurry, not that much blood is going to be lost if you deliver the kiddo first.

7 hours ago, bros402 said:

With the fetal monitor, let's just say that Max got one because he is paranoid as hell, or maybe Georgia got it.

Who knows what unspeakable acts Max & Georgia were doing when the placenta started to bleed.

You need to start a website and review medical shows - like that doctor who did reviews for every episode of House.

As far as home fetal monitors, what is the point of having one if you aren't trained to interpret what you're seeing?  There is generally a lot of stuff that happens before the heart rate bottoms out that could be an indicator, but, first, she would have to be on the monitor 24/7 and, second, someone with training would have to be there and checking the tracing regularly.  Then, there's the notion that there is no point in monitoring the baby's heartrate unless you are somewhere where an abnormal heartrate can be acted upon.  Of course, now that Max and Bloom have opened a DIY surgery center in his bedroom; that doesn't matter anymore.

Used to be, women at risk for preterm labor would do home monitoring for contractions.  The monitors they used didn't even look at the heartrate which requires some skill to find.  We stopped doing home monitoring when a mountain of data came out showing that it didn't improve outcomes and ended up costing a lot more, not just for the home monitor, but also for the umpteen unnecessary trips to the hospital that it triggered.

I have no idea why Max and his wife had a full fetal monitor in their bedroom, a handheld Doppler, maybe, but not a table model complete with belts.  A decent handheld model would run around 800 bucks, but Max should be making at least 7 figures for mismanaging New Amsterdam, so he could afford it.

7 hours ago, bros402 said:

You need to start a website and review medical shows - like that doctor who did reviews for every episode of House.

No thanks, I did do a little medical commentary for ER online back in the day on someone else' site.  This show doesn't interest me enough.

Edited May 16, 2019 by doodlebug

[Whimsy]

On 5/15/2019 at 8:32 AM, Kelda Feegle said:

I replayed the accident a few times (mainly to chuckle at the extra as ambo who trips on his way to help) and Bloom shouldn't be at the back of the accident based on her position. No sign of Helen anywhere.

Don't care about Mrs Max or baby but I was surprised Mrs Max lived - thought we'd go for the whole tragic single Dad trying to run a hospital narrative.

I was thinking that Mrs. Max would die leaving it open for Max and Helen to get together with the bonus of the baby since Helen wanted one.  Still thinking it will go there, as long as that's not Helen under the sheet. 

On 5/14/2019 at 11:59 PM, LittleIggy said:

Apologies to my cats and my neighbors for yelling “F*ck!” when that ambulance crash occurred. Anyway, where was Helen in the aftermath? Thank goodness Max is a human car seat and protected baby Luna. WTF wasn’t that idiot attorney handcuffed to the hospital bed?

Glad Reynolds grew a spine re: his judgmental mother.

I literally said "What the Fuck" and my dogs thought they were in trouble due to the tone of my voice.  I guess the surprise worked on me, but doesn't mean I'm not annoyed. 

On 5/15/2019 at 9:46 AM, cathmed said:

Could have done without the Xtasy storyline.

Same sentiment as others have expressed.   Glad to see Dr. Reynolds had backbone and didn't listen to his overbearing mother or sister.  He is a grown a$$ man so yeah, it's time for him to make his own traditions and memories.

The oh-so-predictable crash at the end - WOW - Hasn't that trope been done to death in too many shows and soap operas?  Seriously, they couldn't have thought of a better cliffhanger?  I looked for Helen as well so that will be the mystery for the start of S2.  Is Max's wife dead or will she make it after the crash?  Personally, I hope they write out Georgia's character; she didn't ad any value.    Looks like Lauren has been written out permanently--no way she would have survived that crash-but glad she made amends with Helen before her demise.  BTW, that was Bloom's best performance this season; maybe rehab also saved her, lol!

C'mon now, you're ruining the story with your logic, LOL!!   And yes, Leslie Uggams looks good for 75!

Speaking of Lauren.  Didn't someone on here say that the character went to rehab because the actress was pregnant?  All I could think about was how jealous I was that she has a super flat belly after having had a baby.

On 5/15/2019 at 12:12 PM, sempervivum said:

I saw this too. I assumed it was Helen, but hoping it's Mrs. Saint Max.

I have to say, I haven't watched this show for a couple of months and only tuned in because what I usually watch wasn't on. Thought I'd be completely unfamiliar with what was going on, but I was wrong-same old, same old. The only thing I didn't understand was Saint Max's knit hat-is this a fashion choice or a plot point?

Unfortunately, not Mrs. Max as she was taken away on a gurney.  I feel that TPTB wouldn't write Helen off.  I think that, if Helen were to die, it's because the actress chose to leave.  So, I guess we'll see.  I won't seek out spoilers, I'd rather just wait and see.  But, I think the person under the sheet is the other paramedic.

[doodlebug]

2 hours ago, Whimsy said:

. 

Speaking of Lauren.  Didn't someone on here say that the character went to rehab because the actress was pregnant?  All I could think about was how jealous I was that she has a super flat belly after having had a baby.

Not only did she have a baby on March 1, she had an emergency cesarean after she developed an infection in her uterus.  She looked darn good for having had a kid less than 2 months earlier.

[yourmomiseasy]

On 5/15/2019 at 6:23 AM, VAMom said:

My reaction after the accident was, seriously?  This show is ridiculous 😂

Right?  A t-bone is the biggest season finale cliffhanger cliche ever, but that wasn't good enough for this silly melodramatic show.  No, it had to be a double ambulance t-bone with half the medical staff and a newborn baby on board.

[Texasmom1970]

Yes, I am an awful person but when Bloom mouthed “we have a pulse ” I hollered damnit. 

[preeya]

Spoiler

TPTB have already announced that someone in the crash is not going to make it. The actors don't even know which one it is.

[crowsworks]

Quote

And the final mystery, no sign of Helen at all in those final scenes, but a very clear shot of a body being covered by a white tarp.  That is either 2nd paramedic who was in the passenger seat or Helen.  

The Doctor rescued Martha.....errr Helen.

[alexvillage]

8 hours ago, yourmomiseasy said:

Right?  A t-bone is the biggest season finale cliffhanger cliche ever, but that wasn't good enough for this silly melodramatic show.  No, it had to be a double ambulance t-bone with half the medical staff and a newborn baby on board.

And as mentioned before, on a Sunday, when all the doctors and office personnel go to hang out and treat non-emergency patients just for fun. Which reminds me that all that happened the episode before, the board member, office supplies,, it all happened on a Sunday too. This is such lazy writing, something that they could easily have changed to make a little closer to relatable to reality.

I know, I am thinking logically. Apologies.

[txhorns79]

Did they forget that last week Max was barely able to stand on his own, much less be in any condition to try to manage his wife's medical crisis? 

[starri]

On 5/16/2019 at 12:38 AM, doodlebug said:

Ketamine used to be legal and was often used with sedation for anesthesia for procedures.  I saw more than a couple of patients having very vivid hallucinations after being given it.  All of the ones I saw were 'good' trips, people seeing nice things and being happy about it.

I'm fairly certain that I was given ketamine sedation when I had one of my surgeries.  I have very little memory of it, but my husband told me I was incredibly chatty.  The last time I was sedated, which was for an endoscopy, it was with propofol, and he told me I just laid there blinking.

On 5/16/2019 at 12:38 AM, doodlebug said:

I'm not tortured by it or I wouldn't watch it, believe me.  I usually only start watching this stuff because someone recommends it to me.  I've never seen an episode of Gray's anatomy or any other medical show currently on the air.  The only other medical show I watched frequently was ER which was miles better than this one.

For me, the appeal (?) is that the depiction of actual medicine and hospital politics is so goofy that it's as charming as it is maddening.  

[CoyoteBlue]

4 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Did they forget that last week Max was barely able to stand on his own, much less be in any condition to try to manage his wife's medical crisis? 

He... did not do a good job of managing that crisis. I assumed that was because he was barely hanging on as it was.

[doodlebug]

33 minutes ago, CoyoteBlue said:

He... did not do a good job of managing that crisis. I assumed that was because he was barely hanging on as it was.

Amongst other things, he delayed calling 911 to answer the door.  Unless he thought the paramedics were going door to door in the neighborhood looking for medical emergencies, calling for medical help would seem to be the priority.  If he hadn't let Bloom in, she wouldn't have been able to do everything wrong and kill his wife and baby which is what would've happened in real life.

12 hours ago, preeya said:

  Hide contents

TPTB have already announced that someone in the crash is not going to make it. The actors don't even know which one it is.

They should hold a contest and let the fans vote on whether anyone survives the accident.  For that matter, all of the cast should be on the table, not just the ones who were in the ambulance.  Maybe an anvil can fall from the sky....

[atiyah9369]

On 5/15/2019 at 8:32 AM, Kelda Feegle said:

I replayed the accident a few times (mainly to chuckle at the extra as ambo who trips on his way to help) and Bloom shouldn't be at the back of the accident based on her position. No sign of Helen anywhere. 

Don't care about Mrs Max or baby but I was surprised Mrs Max lived - thought we'd go for the whole tragic single Dad trying to run a hospital narrative.

LOL! I noticed that also.