S16.E23: Lost Time

[thewhiteowl]

Gibbs uncharacteristically unravels and abandons his team at a crime scene.

[Katy M]

Dare I say it?  Boring.

I knew the wife was the killer, but to be fair I didn't know she wasn't the wife.

I think Bishop being bothered by Gibbs being a coldblooded killer is a tad bit hypocritical.  I hated the episode so I could be remembering wrong, but didn't she basically set up that guy that killed the guy that she went out with twice so that he would have to kill himself or be killed by other bad guys.  Because she handcuffed him in a shed and left him the means to kill himself after telling him that something something.  Somebody remember this better?

I think Gibbs should have turned himself in.  Why not?  He did commit murder.  

Fornell in the hospital as a cliffhanger was just silly as it literally just dropped out of nowhere. Unless I missed something. Which I may have. I was researching vacation plans while watching. But, I don't remember him even being mentioned.

[stonehaven]

I was hoping for a Fornell sighting sometime this season..Yeah it was boring..but I swear the way Gibbs talked, that seemed to be the most dialogue they had for him all season.  I do wonder if the Gibbs existential crisis would have been written by Gary Glasberg better...but we'll never know....and the preview of next week looks so over the top, I just have to watch it.

As we wind down the season, I gotta thank 9-1-1 and The Rookie for bringing the fun in cop/rescue drama because this show sure ain't doing it...

[Katy M]

4 minutes ago, stonehaven said:

and the preview of next week looks so over the top, I just have to watch it.

Why did I think this was the season finale?  

I guess because the guy on the radio who says what we should watch that night said it was and I believed him.  Well, this makes me a little less critical of the Fornell in the hospital thing.  I thought that was the hiatus finale with no buildup, but if it's just a set up for next week, I can live with it a bit better.

[mommalib]

I wonder who Jack has feelings for Gibbs or Vance? Based off last weeks episode I say Vance.

[enoughcats]

21 minutes ago, mommalib said:

I wonder who Jack has feelings for Gibbs or Vance? Based off last weeks episode I say Vance.

Or Gibbs' shrink who happens to be Jacks' shrink, too?

[Linderhill]

Hopefully this means that the idiot "Gibbs gunned down his wife and daughter's killer" storyline will be forgotten for another 5 years.  Or, hope against hope, it will disappear for good finally.  I groaned out loud last week when it came up, the worst kept secret in the world.

I really don't give a crap that Fornell is in the hospital. I like the character but I can survive without him showing up every season. Typical cliff hanger bait.

[mommalib]

54 minutes ago, enoughcats said:

Or Gibbs' shrink who happens to be Jacks' shrink, too?

I see no chemistry with her and Gibbs. Vance would be a better option.

[Dr.OO7]

3 hours ago, Katy M said:

I hated the episode so I could be remembering wrong, but didn't she basically set up that guy that killed the guy that she went out with twice so that he would have to kill himself or be killed by other bad guys.  Because she handcuffed him in a shed and left him the means to kill himself after telling him that something something.  Somebody remember this better

No, I think you summed it up pretty well.

[BrianJ1962]

This maybe a stretch: With all this talk of the Pedro Hernandez killing and Abby writing the often talked about and shown report on the killing could this be a way for to Abby to make a come back?

[laredhead]

What was the reason for Gibbs getting his old haircut style?  Making himself look military before surrendering to the law? 

I didn't mind the episode, and I think the writers are beginning to think about the end of the series.  While the ratings for NCIS are high, they have fallen over the last 2 years, and Harmon is getting a bit old to play an active employee of NCIS.   Someone mentioned the number of lines Mark Harmon had in this episode, and it was sort of a "shock" to hear him speak so much dialogue last night.  I like him as an actor, but I think he's more effective when he speaks less and uses his facial expressions to convey his thoughts.  I guess with that in mind, it would be totally true that a usually non-verbal person would have trouble expressing his thoughts verbally.  I also liked Torres attitude about Gibbs' confession to the team.  You know his character has some secrets from all of his years under deep cover.  He probably understands Gibbs' state of mind more than the other two.  Ellie is just annoying.

[Kelda Feegle]

10 hours ago, mommalib said:

I wonder who Jack has feelings for Gibbs or Vance? Based off last weeks episode I say Vance.

I'm guessing Gibbs 😞

[thewhiteowl]

I was so happy he got his hair cut the rest didn't matter all that much. Torres was actually tolerable. Ellie was not. I think McGee has a right to be shocked but geez, losing sleep over it? That's a big of a prima donna reaction. They have been through a lot together and finding out your hero is not perfect can be upsetting but it should not take much for McGee to empathize. He's a husband and father now. And Ellie? Really, Bish? Not that long ago she did her own revenge kill. You would think she'd be the first to understand.

The case was not ground-breaking but it wasn't bad. Overall high marks for the hair cut alone. Yay!

[Katy M]

59 minutes ago, thewhiteowl said:

I think McGee has a right to be shocked but geez, losing sleep over it? That's a big of a prima donna reaction.

I don't know.  Finding out someone that you have worked with for 15 years, respect, and look up to as a role model, is a cold blooded murderer would probably make most people lose sleep.  TV shows tend to gloss over vigilante justice like it's a good thing, but it's really not, and kind of disturbing.  Especially when said vigilante has arrested other people for doing the same thing.  Gibbs and Bishop are complete hypocrites.  At the very least, they should have left law enforcement when they decided to take the law in their own hands.

[preeya]

As members of law enforcement, aren't they (the team) duty-bound to take action on a murder confession, no matter when, how and from whom it was spoken?? The shrink lady likely has doctor/patient exemption.

As someone mentioned previously, the writers are likely setting up the series finale with this scenario.

Edited May 15, 2019 by preeya

[Ebau]

3 hours ago, Kelda Feegle said:

I wonder who Jack has feelings for Gibbs or Vance? Based off last weeks episode I say Vance.

That would work for me; old Leon needs a woman to put the starch back in his collar ever since the other one broke his heart. And I think those two have chemistry; they certainly seem to enjoy each other's company.

3 hours ago, Kelda Feegle said:

I'm guessing Gibbs 😞

The Jack 'n' Jethro Show! Of course, ya never know; Jack could have a thing for Torres! But if it's true that she's a-lustin' after Gibbs, and DIANE (that mega-bitch) really IS coming back next week (as what, a White Walker?), then this outta get really interesting: The shrink vs. the psycho! Tickets on sale now at a box office near you!

And Gibbs back to that shitty old haircut? I've yet to see a real-life Marine with a "Moe" 'do!

Also, Gibbs and his little meltdown just didn't sit right with me; he's not a pussy and usually doesn't think twice about killing anyone who stands in his way. So what's up with his sudden bout of remorse? And WTF set him off, anyway?

And Bishop's prosletizing over Gibbs wasting whatshisname 30 years ago is just ridiculous; someone at another site reminded us all of the rather cruel way she did away with Qasim's killer a year or two ago. Are we gonna see her crying in her beer at some point in the future from shame and regret? Doubt it.

Not one of NCIS's best episodes, character development-wise, anyway. However, I did enjoy the case; that was pretty freaking awesome and Torres managed to be a wee bit less annoying than usual.

[HurricaneVal]

At the top of the show, I thought it was extremely rude and bad form for Ellie to extend the "no you do it....no you do it..." death notice bickering with Torres all the way to actually making the death notice to the widow.  I literally gasped when she said "I'm so sorry, <widow lady>..........but Agent Torres has some sad new for you."  That was amazingly cold, and rude, and very callous and I was very disappointed in Agent Bishop for playing games like that.  I don't doubt that Torres doesn't carry his weight with stuff like that, but you don't play with the innocent citizens you've sworn to protect and serve.

Then it turned out she wasn't so innocent or a citizen and was really the killer, so I guess in the writer's mind, playing a death notice for humor like that was OK.  But it still left a bad taste in my mouth.

I'm also pretty much over the whole angst about Gibbs killing the man who oh-so casually killed his beloved wife and daughter.  Maybe if Gibbs was otherwise the lily-white, strictly by-the-book, buttoned up crusading agent who never once did anything or allowed anything sketchy to get them further in their investigation and catch the bad guy I'd understand it.  But the team has always played fast and loose, and done what it takes to get the bad guy. 

In fact, I'd be more shocked to learn that Gibbs knew who killed his wife and daughter and didn't go after him.  Now, that would be out of character!  I'm also not buying all the crushing internal angst Gibbs is feeling right now relative to all this.  I think the real Gibbs, the one we've seen all series long, was at peace with killing Pedro Hernandez one nano second after pulling the trigger.

I still love Laura San Giacomo as the shrink.  I love it that she's Jack's shrink too, and I knew there was something hinky about Jack being later for.......the dentist.  Yeah, right, the dentist.

I also knew something had to be up with that brooch.  It was featured front and center on that jeans jacket, and I could hardly take my eyes off it in each scene.  And?  Since when do they allow a victim or witness to sit in on their interrogations, internal discussions, and forensic results?  Very, very unprofessional.  And Vance himself was apparently signing off on it. 

One more thing....holy cow, was that actress the second coming of Marilou Henner!

[Katy M]

7 minutes ago, HurricaneVal said:

also knew something had to be up with that brooch.  It was featured front and center on that jeans jacket, and I could hardly take my eyes off it in each scene.  And?  Since when do they allow a victim or witness to sit in on their interrogations, internal discussions, and forensic results?  Very, very unprofessional.  And Vance himself was apparently signing off on it. 

And then yelled at Kasie for divulging sensitive information.  I can understand Kasie's confusion.

[MDL]

26 minutes ago, HurricaneVal said:

In fact, I'd be more shocked to learn that Gibbs knew who killed his wife and daughter and didn't go after him.  Now, that would be out of character!  I'm also not buying all the crushing internal angst Gibbs is feeling right now relative to all this.  I think the real Gibbs, the one we've seen all series long, was at peace with killing Pedro Hernandez one nano second after pulling the trigger. 

 I agree.

................................................................................................................................................................

different idea:

Regarding the team knowing, and not sure how to approach Gibbs, I can  get that. But after their "talk" at the end of the ep. I thought that Gibbs was more "OK" with things than Bishop or McGee.

3rd idea:

Is  there a difference in the teams responsibility with respect to "Gibbs' crime" because it occurred in a different country?

[transitfan]

1 hour ago, preeya said:

As members of law enforcement, aren't they (the team) duty-bound to take action on a murder confession, no matter when, how and from whom it was spoken?? The shrink lady likely has doctor/patient exemption.

As someone mentioned previously, the writers are likely setting up the series finale with this scenario.

Yep.  IIRC, law enforcement officials are required to report a felony (especially one that has no statue of limitations).  And (also, IIRC), failure to report said felony makes the law enforcement official(s) themselves guilty of a felony.  But that's just in real life, not in NCIS-land  🙂

[LuvMyShows]

I noticed when Torres and Bishop entered that house, that they didn't identify themselves that they were coming in.  I get that they had probable cause to enter, but wouldn't they not only want to identify themselves (so they aren't shot by mistake) but have to legally?

And did I hear them say that the bad-guy woman avoided all the cameras?  No freaking way.  IIRC, there's video of that hallway that they walk down to get to that conference room, and there would be multiple cameras around the facility.  And even if she was with an agent, I still think she would have had to check-in to the federal facility, with ID (and maybe Torres would have seen it and figured it out sooner).

15 hours ago, mommalib said:

I wonder who Jack has feelings for Gibbs or Vance? Based off last weeks episode I say Vance.

14 hours ago, enoughcats said:

Or Gibbs' shrink who happens to be Jacks' shrink, too?

I think they want us to think it's Gibbs, especially since that's who they cut away to right after Jack said that, but then they will 'surprise' us with it being Leon.  The shrink is married, so I doubt they would go there.

15 hours ago, stonehaven said:

....and the preview of next week looks so over the top, I just have to watch it.

I watch on the replay on-line and they don't show the previews...what did it show?

3 hours ago, thewhiteowl said:

I was so happy he got his hair cut the rest didn't matter all that much.

Yes, thank god for the hair cut, especially from the front...he looks 10 years younger, and more handsome.  Although I could do without the extreme shave on the sides.

[Mrs. Stanwyck]

22 minutes ago, MDL said:

Is  there a difference in the teams responsibility with respect to "Gibbs' crime" because it occurred in a different country?

I thought about this last night.  If Gibbs went to the local police station to turn himself in for a crime that was committed in another country and for which there is no outstanding extradition warrant, what are the cops going to do?  As far as I know, they wouldn't have jurisdiction in the case - wouldn't they just tell him to go to Mexico and confess?

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, Mrs. Stanwyck said:

I thought about this last night.  If Gibbs went to the local police station to turn himself in for a crime that was committed in another country and for which there is no outstanding extradition warrant, what are the cops going to do?  As far as I know, they wouldn't have jurisdiction in the case - wouldn't they just tell him to go to Mexico and confess?

They would probably (through another agency) contact the Mexican authorities and then extradition proceedings would begin.  I hadn't remembered the crime had taken place in Mexico. I would probably be slightly less anxious to confess.

Either way, the benefit of not getting caught and turning yourself in is that you can get your affairs in order, get a lawyer and then go to the police.

[twoods]

I hope it’s not Gibbs, but it likely will be. I prefer Jack to Vance like everyone else. 

Nice twist with the killer not being the real wife. 

[Clanstarling]

21 hours ago, Katy M said:

I knew the wife was the killer, but to be fair I didn't know she wasn't the wife.

I was going to post exactly that. But it did really piss me off that the killer spoke English without an accent, and at the airport they had her villian it up with a Russian accent. Very Boris and Natasha.

20 hours ago, mommalib said:

I wonder who Jack has feelings for Gibbs or Vance? Based off last weeks episode I say Vance.

I think Vance, I hope Vance. For multiple reasons.

6 hours ago, HurricaneVal said:

At the top of the show, I thought it was extremely rude and bad form for Ellie to extend the "no you do it....no you do it..." death notice bickering with Torres all the way to actually making the death notice to the widow.  I literally gasped when she said "I'm so sorry, <widow lady>..........but Agent Torres has some sad new for you."  That was amazingly cold, and rude, and very callous and I was very disappointed in Agent Bishop for playing games like that.  I don't doubt that Torres doesn't carry his weight with stuff like that, but you don't play with the innocent citizens you've sworn to protect and serve.

I think my jaw dropped a little at that point. I actually tend to like Ellie, but I thought that was terrible. I didn't find it funny at all, despite the eventual outcome that she wasn't the wife.

Fornell in the hospital works for me. I've missed him a great deal as his chemistry with Gibbs is the best on the show. For some reason his absence makes me worried about the actor.

[secnarf]

Did Vance say Fornell has been hospitalized? Or just that he is 'at the hospital'? Couldn't it be the kid or someone else who is in hospital?

[mommalib]

When it comes to Jack I think Gibbs is the red herring. Jack is different with Vance, seems more affectionate with him. Not to mention they have history. Also add that Vance just got his heart broken again. That last scene between them from the previous episode when she went to his office it seemed like she wanted to tell him something.

[Clanstarling]

12 hours ago, secnarf said:

Did Vance say Fornell has been hospitalized? Or just that he is 'at the hospital'? Couldn't it be the kid or someone else who is in hospital?

The urgency implied hospitalization - though you're right, it could be the kid rather than Fornell.

[preeya]

12 hours ago, secnarf said:

Did Vance say Fornell has been hospitalized? Or just that he is 'at the hospital'? Couldn't it be the kid or someone else who is in hospital?

The subtitles went like this:

VANCE:   Gibbs!  Where the hell have you been?

GIBBS:   Leon, what? What's the matter?

VANCE:  It's Fornell. You need to get to Mercy Point Hospital. Fast.

No hint is given as to the reason for the urgency.

Edited May 16, 2019 by preeya

[Chaos Theory]

I really did like the scenes in the bar between Gibbs and Grace.  Especially when Gibbs was trying to tell her what he did and she  just out right asked him who he killed and Gibbs got this surprised look on his face.  I thought Grace’s line “would we be here if you pirated someone’s cable?” Was a classic line.  Plus I really like that she had Gibb’s rules written down and used them to get through to him. It’s no wonder he trusts her.

Edited May 16, 2019 by Chaos Theory

[pally]

Tony would have known to look at the wife or in this case the pretend wife.  

I don't buy Tim not knowing or at least seriously suspecting Gibbs's history.  He was too involved in the various Alejandro episodes.  

Gibbs didn't have a meltdown when he told his former MIL. Or when Abby, Ducky, Ziva, Tony, Vance all knew.  And I'm sure there are others I'm forgetting right now

[Chaos Theory]

7 minutes ago, pally said:

Gibbs didn't have a meltdown when he told his former MIL. Or when Abby, Ducky, Ziva, Tony, Vance all knew.  And I'm sure there are others I'm forgetting right now

But he never actually said the words.  Ducky made assumptions because of his knowledge of his friend,   Abby asked her father figure what to do with troubling evidence.  Ziva knew but never brought it up because who is she to judge?  .   Vance only asked him once after he lost his own wife.   Gibbs could always just pretend his secrets were his secrets if he never said the words out  loud.   I think it was the saying of the words and the years catching up with him.  Grace was right.  What is his end game?   Before he could just shrug it off.  He had years to figure it out.  He isn’t a young man anymore and for him retirement is like death.  

Edited May 16, 2019 by Chaos Theory

[Orbert]

6 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

I think it was the saying of the words and the years catching up with him.

That's my take.  Yeah, many of us are taken aback by Gibbs' behavior and some say it's out of character, but I think the idea is that it's finally, after all this time, getting to him.  Whether or not we think this is how he should/would/could be acting, this is where they're going with it.  I think.  And how he finally deals with it will drive his end game.

[RobertDeSneero]

3 hours ago, Orbert said:

That's my take.  Yeah, many of us are taken aback by Gibbs' behavior and some say it's out of character, but I think the idea is that it's finally, after all this time, getting to him.  Whether or not we think this is how he should/would/could be acting, this is where they're going with it.  I think.  And how he finally deals with it will drive his end game.

I think he's been on this trajectory for a few years.  He's been less of a hardass and going soft.  Honestly, I think Ziva's death affected him and finding her secret office sparked something that made him less able to control himself.

[mythoughtis]

On 5/15/2019 at 7:43 PM, secnarf said:

Did Vance say Fornell has been hospitalized? Or just that he is 'at the hospital'? Couldn't it be the kid or someone else who is in hospital?

never mind- someone else posted my thought first. 

Edited May 21, 2019 by mythoughtis