S02.E20: A Proposal and a Popsicle Stick Cross

[Bort]

Georgie is thrilled when Veronica stays at the Coopers’ house for a few days. Also, Meemaw and Dr. Sturgis celebrate their one-year anniversary.

Airdate: Thursday, May 2, 2019

[Armchair Critic]

I felt so bad for Dr. Sturgis, but I can't blame Meemaw for saying no. That was a great idea to place the newspaper ad, it was cute how excited he got about it.

[Katy M]

Mary was right.

Missy was great as usual.

Georgie was actually kind of sweet in his own doofusy way.

George was protective.

Sheldon was able to maintain his bathroom schedule.

[Bort]

Veronica’s mom sucks.

[Snow Apple]

George punching out the creep also belongs in the "Hell Yeah!" TV moments thread.

[Nordly Beaumont]

Just now, Snow Apple said:

George punching out the creep also belongs in the "Hell Yeah!" TV moments thread.

Right next to Dan punching out Fisher on Rosanne!

[AnnaRose]

Missy: "Mom, can we keep her?" 😄

Haha!  So cute.  I hope they do keep her.  I like what Veronica brings to the show.  This was an enjoyable episode - I liked both storylines.

[ams1001]

I liked Missy and Veronica's ice cream outing. That was really sweet. Missy could use a big sister.

[Nordly Beaumont]

"Do people our age do that?"

"I don't know, I've never been this age before!"

I hope I'll have opportunity to use that line!

[Bort]

18 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

I liked Missy and Veronica's ice cream outing. That was really sweet. Missy could use a big sister.

I did too. Especially the end when their Freaky Friday body switch attempt didn’t work.

Missy: Too bad, I was really hoping to drive home. Can I anyway? 

Veronica: Sure.

Missy: Really?

Veronica: NO.

[BitterApple]

Aw, I felt so bad for Dr. Sturgis, although I understand why Meemaw doesn't want to remarry at this stage in her life.

Missy and Veronica's ice cream outing was adorable, as was Missy wanting to trade Sheldon for her. 

Sheldon and his carefully typed bathroom schedule, lol, and finally George Sr. for the win!

[HurricaneVal]

I loved this episode top to bottom and side to side.  Each character was spot-on and true to themselves.  Georgie was adorable.  George was awesome.  Missy was heart-breaking.  Everyone else was wonderful.  I like the closer look we had at Veronica.  As a peripheral character, she is becoming very nuanced.  Kudos to the showruners.

[Mystery]

This was great: Sheldon wasn't obnoxious and wasn't the star, and everyone else was fantastic. Especially the actress playing Veronica. When George asked her if she wanted to go with Clint, and she could barely get out "no, sir" without losing her breath on the "sir," I teared up. Behind her, Georgie looked so serious and when she said no, his eyes went to George because he knew George would take care of things. 

I also liked George complaining that Mary waited until he had a beer before talking about Clint's drinking problem, and she pointed out, without rancor, that he *always* has a beer. 

And Connie sweatin' to the oldies with Richard Simmons. 

And the twins sitting on the couch, sharing the same reactions about Georgie while he was getting ready for Veronica to arrive. 

And Veronica and Missy. Really, I thought it was just great all around. 

Edited May 3, 2019 by Mystery

[Mystery]

25 minutes ago, HurricaneVal said:

Kudos to the showruners.

This. You can tell when a show is well-written and the characters are well thought out, because we could have predicted how each of them would react to Veronica. The people behind this show are very thoughtful about what they've created. 

Edited May 3, 2019 by Mystery

[HurricaneVal]

44 minutes ago, Mystery said:

When George asked her if she wanted to go with Clint, and she could barely get out "no, sir" without losing her breath on the "sir," I teared up. Behind her, Georgie looked so serious and when she said no, his eyes went to George because he knew George would take care of things

That whole scene at the door was perfection.  This is how sitcoms should tackle serious real life issues.  The characters were so perfect in themselves in that situation.  This was high drama in a sitcom.

Then the funny came in afterward with George breezily striding into the kitchen telling Mary to call the police because...pause to give the viewers doubt... "there's a bum sleeping on the doorstep."

[BitterApple]

5 minutes ago, HurricaneVal said:

That whole scene at the door was perfection.  This is how sitcoms should tackle serious real life issues.  The characters were so perfect in themselves in that situation.  This was high drama in a sitcom.

Then the funny came in afterward with George breezily striding into the kitchen telling Mary to call the police because...pause to give the viewers doubt... "there's a bum sleeping on the doorstep."

It reminded me of the Roseanne episode where Dan beats the shit out of Jackie's abusive boyfriend. Both sitcoms handled it really well. 

[Mystery]

2 minutes ago, HurricaneVal said:

That whole scene at the door was perfection.  This is how sitcoms should tackle serious real life issues.  The characters were so perfect in themselves in that situation.  This was high drama in a sitcom.

Then the funny came in afterward with George breezily striding into the kitchen telling Mary to call the police because...pause to give the viewers doubt... "there's a bum sleeping on the doorstep."

Yes, exactly this. George being all polite, saying "Hello, Clint, what can we do for you?" and you could practically *hear* the "you piece of sh*t" after it, since he knew what Clint was like. He was so affable and yet ready to take a shot at him. Like other people I know who are big and strong and have no need to be loud about it, because that's just the way they are. 

And because this is a comedy, it definitely needed that "bum sleeping" comment to lighten things back up. 

I admit that I watched this scene about five times. I thought it was perfect. 

3 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

It reminded me of the Roseanne episode where Dan beats the shit out of Jackie's abusive boyfriend. Both sitcoms handled it really well. 

Yeah, good point. They're very similar situations, a former football player, still strong but older and more controlled, taking care of someone he thinks of as "family." You can imagine Dan and George both saying "It's no big thing." 

Both episodes hit home for me because of a family member, and I appreciate how these comedies deftly and sensitively dealt with a situation that many dramas don't do justice to. 

[rmontro]

Good points everyone.  All the characters had their moments, this was one of the better episodes.  

I really like the relationship between Mee-maw and Dr. Sturgis, I'm glad they're not breaking up.  I like seeing Wallace Shawn in anything.

I liked Veronica's "uh oh" when she woke up after having the dream about Georgie.

Great moment of course with George Sr. taking care of the abuser guy, although I doubt things would be so simple in real life.  Unfortunately.

[Katy M]

6 hours ago, HurricaneVal said:

"there's a bum sleeping on the doorstep."

Thanks.  I actually didn't catch what he said. I thought he said "there's a bloodstain on the doorstep," and was wondering if that meant he completely pulverized him. Then decided that was a bit dark for a sitcom.

[TV Diva Queen]

I enjoyed most and Shelly sitting on the couch and their reactions. I love when when make Sheldon human and somewhat a kid. I like it in small doses and the writers deliver. 

[Bobbin]

George calmly and confidently taking care of Clint made me think of "Married...With Children" when Al politely walked daughter Kelly's sleazy boyfriend to the door -- and slammed him into the door frame before giving him the heave ho.

Veronica is to the Cooper household kind of like Marilyn is to the Munsters. The Veronica-Missy outing was awesome. And Veronica's dream segment was so natural and well-done.

Every character was perfect and endearing in their own way. Kudos.

[hoodooznoodooz]

I loved watching Georgie meticulously prepare his bedroom for Veronica. He’s no longer merely lusting for her. I think he cares for her. 

Sturgis was adorable. What a sweet man. 

[mammaM]

VIP goes to George! 

When Clint said (para.) "do you really want to do this? ", and George sighed, "I guess I do". It was that sigh, that looong sigh, that made it perfect

[Bort]

Please remember that the episode topic is not the place to discuss "future" Big Bang Theory plot points.

[2727]

After Georgie dumped his box of contraband magazines and posters in the garage, I expected Sheldon to poke around, squinch up his face in puzzlement, and ask his mom why people would look at that stuff. In my mind, those scenes were cut for time.

[Bali]

I absolutely LOVED this episode. I loved every aspect of it. From Georgie cleaning his room and George taking a picture so there was proof, to Veronica's dream about Georgie, to George protecting her. BIG HEARTS

I hated that Dr. Sturgis was sad. And for a few minutes there, I thought we were about to lose that character, but he's still in the game. And how awesome was his GLEE over that?

Veronica and Missy- YES- give me more Veronica and Missy. I didn't know that I needed that in my life, but now I know how much I need that. Gimmeeeeee MORE. (Seriously, can we keep them? Please Mommy?)

[Browncoat]

I love that Veronica just went along with the switching places attempt, and didn't even roll her eyes or make Missy feel stupid for wanting to try.  You know Georgie and Sheldon both would have made fun of Missy. 

[SpiritSong]

Loved MeeMaw's workout outfit. John Sturgis is just adorkable.

And Georgie giving himself a pep talk. "Be the Danza...be the Danza."

This show is just perfectly cast.

[PWHCHCH]

I’ve always gotten the impression that Connie is dating John for her own amusement for shits n giggles. Always seemed to be one sided with John being used by Connie. This episode didn’t really help that impression. 

Loved everything else. Probably my fav episode of the season. 

[SpiritSong]

2 hours ago, GSManiac said:

I’ve always gotten the impression that Connie is dating John for her own amusement for shits n giggles. Always seemed to be one sided with John being used by Connie. This episode didn’t really help that impression. 

Loved everything else. Probably my fav episode of the season. 

She is amused by him, but I think that's all right. He's quirky, to put it mildly. But she does seem to be genuinely fond of him, and is willing to be in a monogamous relationship. Poor Ira had his feelings hurt when she chose John over him. There's just not enough Connie to go around.

John didn't exactly cover himself in glory in this episode when he ran away on his bike, then refused to take her calls. Life is full of disappointments, and acting childish isn't usually the best way to handle them. I do think they make a cute couple, but I don't blame her at all for not wanting to be a wife again. My mom was the same way after my dad died. A lot of women of that generation catered to their men, and though they still love and miss them after they're gone, the freedom to only worry about yourself can be a wonderful thing.

[Browncoat]

3 minutes ago, SpiritSong said:

the freedom to only worry about yourself can be a wonderful thing. 

Indeed, and it's refreshing for a TV show to show a woman not leap into marriage just because a man proposes.

[rmontro]

On 5/3/2019 at 9:59 AM, mammaM said:

When Clint said (para.) "do you really want to do this? ", and George sighed, "I guess I do". It was that sigh, that looong sigh, that made it perfect

I think he said "Sure, why not?".  But I take your point.

I think the reason this episode was so good was that there wasn't a lot of Sheldon in it.  Sheldon can wear on your nerves after awhile, but regardless it was nice to see some of the other actors get more focus on them.  The show works best as an ensemble as opposed to "Sheldon and others" IMO.

Edited May 4, 2019 by rmontro

[BitterApple]

3 hours ago, SpiritSong said:

She is amused by him, but I think that's all right. He's quirky, to put it mildly. But she does seem to be genuinely fond of him, and is willing to be in a monogamous relationship. Poor Ira had his feelings hurt when she chose John over him. There's just not enough Connie to go around.

John didn't exactly cover himself in glory in this episode when he ran away on his bike, then refused to take her calls. Life is full of disappointments, and acting childish isn't usually the best way to handle them. I do think they make a cute couple, but I don't blame her at all for not wanting to be a wife again. My mom was the same way after my dad died. A lot of women of that generation catered to their men, and though they still love and miss them after they're gone, the freedom to only worry about yourself can be a wonderful thing.

I can definitely see that. I've been with my husband for ten years and while he's a great guy, sometimes it's nice when he goes on the occasional business trip. Relationships are great, but there's always so much discussion over the little things: what to have for dinner, which movie to see at the theater, what time are we going to walk the dog, who's going to call the A/C repair guy, etc. When you've been doing that for years, you appreciate the days when you can just run on your own schedule and do what you want. 

I'm not sure how long MeeMaw has been widowed, but if she's hit her stride as a single gal, it makes sense that she'd want companionship without the heavy commitment of marriage. 

[rmontro]

16 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I'm not sure how long MeeMaw has been widowed, but if she's hit her stride as a single gal, it makes sense that she'd want companionship without the heavy commitment of marriage. 

There's a huge difference in perspective between someone who had never been married, like John, and someone like MeeMaw, who had been through all the ups and downs.  I'm glad that she was able to make him see that just because she didn't want to get married, at least not right now, that it didn't amount to a rejection of him.

[Yeah No]

I agree that this was a great episode all around and a great series in general.  It has to be a good show when Mr. Yeah No sees me watching it and then gets on board.  When he first heard of this spin off he was not interested but soon came around.

When I saw Veronica kiss Georgie not knowing it was a dream sequence I said out loud, "Uh oh".  Then two seconds later when she woke up and said "Uh oh" I cracked up.  OK, I guess you had to be there.

MeeMaw was channeling Jane Fonda in her workout outfit.  Good old Richard Simmons!  Made me think of way back in the day when he was on General Hospital.

Dr. Sturgis is very inexperienced with relationships and somewhat socially awkward to boot.  His heart's in the right place but I think MeeMaw knows what she's doing not rushing into anything with him.  

[Mystery]

6 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

When I saw Veronica kiss Georgie not knowing it was a dream sequence I said out loud, "Uh oh".  Then two seconds later when she woke up and said "Uh oh" I cracked up.  OK, I guess you had to be there.

I laughed just reading that, so it worked even though I wasn't there!

[HouseofBeck]

12 hours ago, SpiritSong said:

She is amused by him, but I think that's all right. He's quirky, to put it mildly. But she does seem to be genuinely fond of him, and is willing to be in a monogamous relationship. Poor Ira had his feelings hurt when she chose John over him. There's just not enough Connie to go around.

John didn't exactly cover himself in glory in this episode when he ran away on his bike, then refused to take her calls. Life is full of disappointments, and acting childish isn't usually the best way to handle them. I do think they make a cute couple, but I don't blame her at all for not wanting to be a wife again. My mom was the same way after my dad died. A lot of women of that generation catered to their men, and though they still love and miss them after they're gone, the freedom to only worry about yourself can be a wonderful thing.

Yes. She cares and I'd say loves him dearly, and also loves their relationship exactly as it is. She doesn't need the grand public signaling of it that he's equating with romance and security (per his restaurant speech).

It was wonderful of her to take out that expensive ad, but I didn't like first his running (bicycling) away, then refusing to take her calls, and then finally his, "I'm back in!" 

You were never OUT, you doofus. She told you that the entire time, and you still put her through that crap. Ugh.

I am trying to remember the time period and characterization and give some leeway. Failing a bit. 😁

[2727]

18 hours ago, SpiritSong said:

Loved MeeMaw's workout outfit.

Annie Potts and I are the same age, and seeing her in that leotard made me seriously rethink all my ice cream and couch-sitting choices over the decades.

[BitterApple]

3 hours ago, 2727 said:

Annie Potts and I are the same age, and seeing her in that leotard made me seriously rethink all my ice cream and couch-sitting choices over the decades.

She really did look incredible and that was with the TV cameras adding weight. I can't imagine how amazing she must look in person.

[lh25]

On 5/4/2019 at 5:22 AM, HouseofBeck said:

It was wonderful of her to take out that expensive ad, but I didn't like first his running (bicycling) away, then refusing to take her calls, and then finally his, "I'm back in!" 

You were never OUT, you doofus. She told you that the entire time, and you still put her through that crap. Ugh.

That bothered me too.  Hubby's take was that he wanted something tangible.  Her wearing his ring, or the ad.  What I loved is that she was willing to take out the ad, and yet not bend on not being ready to get married again.

[Browncoat]

From his point of view, he was rejected.  In his mind, rejection of his proposal equaled rejection of him, even though we all know MeeMaw didn't mean it that way.  I don't blame him at all for taking off and taking time to process that rejection.  Her gesture of the ad helped him to understand the situation, but it's possible that he would have figured it out on his own, too.

[Katy M]

7 minutes ago, Browncoat said:

From his point of view, he was rejected.  In his mind, rejection of his proposal equaled rejection of him, even though we all know MeeMaw didn't mean it that way.  I don't blame him at all for taking off and taking time to process that rejection.  Her gesture of the ad helped him to understand the situation, but it's possible that he would have figured it out on his own, too.

I agree, but feel like he should have said something instead of just leaving and not dodged her phone calls.  That was a kind of juvenile.  I think one partner wanting to get married and the other not is a perfectly valid reason to break up, especially if it's a permanent type thing, and not just a "I'm not ready quite yet" thing.  So, I don't mind that he left, I just don't like the way he did it.  

[Bort]

Agreed. I don’t begrudge Sturgis wanting to have some time to pout/be upset, it’s the ghosting that I didn’t like. I realize he’s not very socially adept, but he’s gotta be old enough to know that ghosting is a dick move.

[Browncoat]

Well, he had to go back to her house to get his bike, and he had to leave.  Maybe he should have said goodbye, but in the moment, I probably wouldn't have even gotten to the front door -- just hopped on my bike and left.  And I guess I don't understand ghosting, but I don't consider leaving after a perceived rejection or not answering the phone after a perceived rejection to be ghosting.  I consider that to be either accepting of the rejection, or taking some time and space to process what just happened.  I think of ghosting more when it seems like both people had a good time (which was not the case here), and then one or both cease communications.

Either way, I am glad they made up -- I love Wallace Shawn, and I like Sturgis' relationship with MeeMaw.  He should draw some boundaries with Sheldon, though.

[Wanda]

If we look at the timeline considering how long Veronica was at the cooper house, it was only a day or two that Dr Sturgis was processing and pouting at what he perceived as a rejection. Think of how much he had to build himself up to get the courage to propose. His expertise is the absoluteness of science. Yes or no answers. He doesn’t understand that no isn’t an absolute figure. In time he would have figured it out but by then would have probably been afraid to face Connie.

[rmontro]

On 5/5/2019 at 1:05 PM, Katy M said:

I agree, but feel like he should have said something instead of just leaving and not dodged her phone calls.  That was a kind of juvenile. 

I'm guessing that in terms of romantic experience, Dr. Sturgis is a juvenile.

[John Potts]

I can only applaud the show for taking on the issue of abusive families and that Mr & Mrs Cooper would take Veronica in. And loved Georgie cleaning out his room (though I was slightly surprised he didn't have some scantily clad starlet - Madonna, maybe? - stuck on his wall) - he really is showing his sweeter side. And while I don't believe in violence, I liked George Sr. punching Veronica's step dad (and it's not like he cold cocked him - the guy invited George to step up).

As for the Connie/Dr Sturgis plot - I have to say I kinda sympathise with him (partly for personal reasons, admittedly). Yes, he shouldn't have left without saying anything, but I do understand the inclination to do so. And Connie had the sweetest way of making it up to him (not that she had anything to apologise for).

[Driad]

When I read the description before seeing the episode, I wondered if they would give Veronica Sheldon's bed and put Sheldon on a cot in Georgie's room, which Would Not Do.  Glad Georgie offered his room to Veronica.