S05.E20: Better Angels

[thewhiteowl]

As Elizabeth prepares to leave the State department and announce her run for president, anti-globalist terrorists attack the U.N. delegation in Geneva.

[Kleav]

Forget the kids; I think the staff should be checking for potentially embarrassing incidents in Will's background.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Kleav

[shapeshifter]

So. More ripped-and-reconfigured plots from headlines (see also the media thread), including a version of Benghazi turned on it's head because it's ricin instead of guns, and Madam Secretary is removed from the epicenter. And then Callister is a cardboard cutout in comparison to other nationalists on the national (and international) scene. 
I like the MSec version of the world better.

Moral of the story: If one loses one's lucky charm, one should not go to a banquet?

Complaint to the director: Too much use of smiles to indicate state of mind (Bess and Henry when thinking of announcing, thinking of vacationing, announcing).
IDK. I guess it was supposed to make Bess's last smiles seem sincere?

Edited April 22, 2019 by shapeshifter

[Netfoot]

Well, I'm out.

Which is easy to say, because the show is essentially done, but even if they continue with Madam President, I'm out.  The stench of bullshit has been at an incredible level for a while, but now it's piling up so high it will soon reach my nostrils and interfere with my ability to breath.

Pity -- I really used to love this show.

I will leave with one final comment:  Stevie, bang his balls off!

Edited April 22, 2019 by Netfoot

[bros402]

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

So. More ripped-and-reconfigured plots from headlines (see also the media thread), including a version of Benghazi turned on it's head because it's ricin instead of guns, and Madam Secretary is removed from the epicenter. And then Callister is a cardboard cutout in comparison to other nationalists on the national (and international) scene. 
I like the MSec version of the world better.

Moral of the story: If one loses one's lucky charm, one should not go to a banquet?

Complaint to the director: Too much use of smiles to indicate state of mind (Bess and Henry when thinking of announcing, thinking of vacationing, announcing).
IDK. I guess it was supposed to make Bess's last smiles seem sincere?

I mean, sure, this universe is more appealing politically, but look at some of the other stuff in it - clearly, climate change is progressing much more rapidly in its universe - the island nation of Nauru was destroyed. Another horrible thing in this universe? In addition, the intelligence communities in this universe are *horrible* at their jobs - see: the sarin attack in this episode, the white house being attacked in an earlier episode, the nuclear attack in DC last season (was it last season?), the first secretary of state being assassinated, and those are just the ones that I recall at this moment.

This was a good episode, but I am worried about what next season might be - I am guessing they will get through the election relatively quickly, since a whole season of election might be a rough one.

 

3 hours ago, Kleav said:

Forget the kids; I think the staff should be checking for potentially embarrassing incidents in Will's background.

They probably wanted to go with the easy ones first 😛

Since Noodle was just some minor stuff, Jason just needs to up his social media security settings and not yell his political leanings from the rooftops, and they just needed to get a list of all of Stevie's relationships.

Also, Blake-Stevie is the relationship (platonic or otherwise) I never knew I wanted.

[NUguy514]

Blake and Stevie?

It was out of nowhere, and I hated it, so thank you, show, but no.

Jason and Mike continue to be horrible, no surprise there.

When they suddenly gave Harriman so much screen time, I sort of assumed he was toast.  What a pat way to get rid of Trump Callister.  If only real life were so convenient.

I hope Elizabeth wins (obviously), and I may be left hoping given how likely it is that the show won't get picked up.😕

[Dowel Jones]

Poor Harriman.  As soon as he started eulogizing RFK, I knew he was dead. 

I loved Russell - "That's pretty cold blooded, even for me."

Jason is the one going to get an education during this campaign.  If he thinks he's going to hide behind the family front door while posting his opinions, oh boy is he wrong.  His twitter account is going to blow up on him and every commentator from early news to late night is going to take him to task.  He's an adult so they won't even grant him that immunity.  For that matter, all the kids will have paparazzi following them everywhere now. 

Conrad was right to reject Elizabeth's request to stay on board.  I thought for a moment they were going to continue on that line, but, in retrospect, she would have lost serious credibility by pulling out, and then getting back in at a later date.

[Driad]

10 hours ago, Kleav said:

Forget the kids; I think the staff should be checking for potentially embarrassing incidents in Will's background.

Don't most POTUSes have an embarrassing sibling? Except when POTUS *is* the embarrassing sibling, of course.

[Loves2Dance]

But Harriman was one of the best characters on the show. I was pissed when he died. 

I realize that they're trying to draw a line from the real world, but instead of making me think, it just makes me irrationally angry. 

[kwnyc]

4 hours ago, Loves2Dance said:

But Harriman was one of the best characters on the show. I was pissed when he died. 

I realize that they're trying to draw a line from the real world, but instead of making me think, it just makes me irrationally angry. 

And Skipp Suddeth is such a good actor...losing him is a blow. I have actually known Tracee Chimo for years (since she was appearing in off-off short plays) and am THRILLED to see her as Nina. If the show is picked up, they have to find a way to bring her back!

[Florinaldo]

When Harriman took out his RFK button, I saw it as a "red shirt" moment, like in the old Star Trek series. When he called it his good luck charm, that clinched it. And he was indeed gone before the opening credits.

[Notwisconsin]

Tell me I wasn't imagining this...I saw an on "our next episode " promo at least twice, where Bess (She's not MSec anymore), discusses how she LOST Iowa to the schmoe who they just had withdraw from the race. What was THAT all about? was it a joke or something?

[MerBearHou]

Double post — sorry

Edited April 23, 2019 by MerBearHou

[MerBearHou]

1 hour ago, MerBearHou said:

I’ve loved this show since Day One, warts and all.  But I do not want it to veer into Callister=Trump commentary.  Second note is that I love Tea Leoni when she’s on her game but every once in awhile, her manner of speech becomes a little slurred, marbles-in-mouth and it drives me nuts when she does so.  Keep it crisp, Tea.  I was very moved when she gave her announcement on the Virginia farm.  I hope we get another season to see where things go.  Stevie and Blake — what??!!  

Edited April 23, 2019 by MerBearHou

[Mellowyellow]

I love this show! I like the AU they have created and I love the blatant digs at real life. Except I agree with the poster above that in their AU world the environment seems even worse than our world.

Conrad did the right thing to reject her resignation. They have always been able to push the other person into the right direction throughout the course of their time working together. I have always loved this friendship and I felt like there was closure from the very first call he made to her in S1 to her running for President in S5.

Is there news of it getting cancelled? Why is everyone commenting on this? It is freaking me out!

I have really enjoyed most of this season and although I will miss this show terribly (it's my favourite show on TV) I did like how it ended with Bess formally launching her campaign. I would love to see her become Madam President but it still feels fairly complete if it had to end here. I think the writers did a really good job. Everyone's story feels complete and I felt like I was able to get a feel for where they will move on with their lives so if it has to end here, it's a pretty decent place to end.

[MerBearHou]

4 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Is there news of it getting cancelled? Why is everyone commenting on this? It is freaking me out!

I saw an article online in the last few days re CBS renewals and it said that Madam Secretary was on the bubble for renewal - indicated less than a sure thing.  I do hope it gets another season at least!

[Dowel Jones]

So, the next obvious question is, who replaces her as SoS?  Did they make mention of an Undersecretary, or is Dalton going to appoint one, or both?  I vote for Russell.  They can always find another CoS, and I would love to see him jousting with the various ambassadors.

[Loves2Dance]

1 hour ago, Dowel Jones said:

So, the next obvious question is, who replaces her as SoS?  Did they make mention of an Undersecretary, or is Dalton going to appoint one, or both?  I vote for Russell.  They can always find another CoS, and I would love to see him jousting with the various ambassadors.

Her replacement was named the week prior. I can't remember her name, but she was the black woman with Nina at the end of this episode. 

[Noneofyourbusiness]

5 hours ago, Loves2Dance said:

Her replacement was named the week prior. I can't remember her name, but she was the black woman with Nina at the end of this episode. 

Undersecretary Susan Thompson, from the Bureau of African Affairs. She appeared in Season 3's "The Dissent Memo" and "The Detour" as well. It was going to be Deputy Secretary Stephen Bailey, who hadn't appeared before, but he resigned after his harassment of female coworkers came to light.

I've been thinking for a long time that Stevie and Blake would make a cute couple. Actually, I expected it way back when Stevie was introduced. And then they danced at a party in a recent episode, though you could only see it in the background near the end.

Edited April 24, 2019 by Noneofyourbusiness

[bros402]

13 hours ago, MerBearHou said:

I saw an article online in the last few days re CBS renewals and it said that Madam Secretary was on the bubble for renewal - indicated less than a sure thing.  I do hope it gets another season at least!

TV By the Numbers has it on the bubble with Bull - https://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/renewcancel/cancel-bear-vs-cbs-week-26-2018-19/

I'm guessing Bull will be cancelled due to the bad press from what the lead actor did, and they'll keep MS for a shortened final season

[tinderbox]

I haven't missed an episode of this show.  Love it and hope it's renewed BUT I do wish they'd produce a couple more episodes that have nothing to do with politics and the setting is different.  There was one a couple of seasons ago regarding the death of Henry's dad that I enjoyed.  (or was it Elizabeth's dad?)  I realize Madam Secretary is a story based on politics but I like the occasional departure. 

Let me add:  I liked the idea of Stevie and Blake.  Why not?

Edited April 24, 2019 by tinderbox

[kwnyc]

Stevie and Blake...they actually are very much alike in personality, smart, focused, looking for a cause. I don't know if they would make a couple, but they definitely would make awesome friends. And Stevie was a boss, telling Blake & Daisy that they don't have the CLEARANCE to know about her last romance. (And reminding them that she does have White House clearance.) She's certainly grown up from the fumbling character in the first seasons. The fact that they've given her something to DO, rather than just match her with men helped a lot.

Allison remains the most level-headed (and so much less trouble that Mike B. can't even remember her name), and Jason is still an ass. I can see why he's so contrary, with such a powerful set of parents, but it would be nice to see him go TOWARD something rather than being rebel without a clue.

[12catcrazy]

This show has a very engaging cast which has kept me watching but I've gotten sick of being hit over the head with the topics.   At this point, if it ended, I'd be totally ok with that.   And no, no, no, to Stevie and Blake.  Friends, yes, but as lovers, no, no, & no.   I like how Stevie has "grown" over the years, but must they keep making her so ready to jump into bed with every guy who looks in her direction?   Booty Call - ew! 

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, 12catcrazy said:

 And no, no, no, to Stevie and Blake.  Friends, yes, but as lovers, no, no, & no.   I like how Stevie has "grown" over the years, but must they keep making her so ready to jump into bed with every guy who looks in her direction?   Booty Call - ew! 

It would be refreshing for them to be friends, but *sigh* doesn't the kiss mean that's impossible (on TV)?
So, if it must be Stake, how about a wedding in the series finale? The Bones wedding was surprisingly awesome.

[RealReality]

On 4/22/2019 at 6:36 AM, Driad said:

Don't most POTUSes have an embarrassing sibling? Except when POTUS *is* the embarrassing sibling, of course.

Heh!  Best comment of the night!

On 4/23/2019 at 10:32 AM, MerBearHou said:

I saw an article online in the last few days re CBS renewals and it said that Madam Secretary was on the bubble for renewal - indicated less than a sure thing.  I do hope it gets another season at least!

I think I'd be fine if next season was the last and we could finish up with EM getting inaugurated.

9 hours ago, 12catcrazy said:

This show has a very engaging cast which has kept me watching but I've gotten sick of being hit over the head with the topics.   At this point, if it ended, I'd be totally ok with that.   And no, no, no, to Stevie and Blake.  Friends, yes, but as lovers, no, no, & no.   I like how Stevie has "grown" over the years, but must they keep making her so ready to jump into bed with every guy who looks in her direction?   Booty Call - ew! 

Yeah, I'm a 10 no on that relationship, though it would continue Stevie's unblemished record of awful relationship choices, so there is that.  Who's left to conquer.....Mike b? Matt?

....and ceaser wept, for there were no more world's left to conquer...or something like that

*****I also want to commend the writers for toning Henry down in the last two episodes.  He was getting dangerously close to quoting acquinas tonight, but last episode was really just the right amount of Henry****

[buckboard]

I know they've replaced the Secretary of State, but it looks as if most of Elizabeth's senior staff are going to help run the campaign.  Who's left at State to assist the new SoS?

Also, what was the purpose of the writers making Blake bisexual and Kat bisexual and then neither has a storyline with a same sex partner, but with opposite sex partners.

[RealReality]

1 hour ago, buckboard said:

I know they've replaced the Secretary of State, but it looks as if most of Elizabeth's senior staff are going to help run the campaign.  Who's left at State to assist the new SoS?

Also, what was the purpose of the writers making Blake bisexual and Kat bisexual and then neither has a storyline with a same sex partner, but with opposite sex partners.

This is an interesting point I hadn't thought about before.  I imagine it's kind of the best of both worlds.  The show can have the appeal of inclusivity but still hold onto viewers who are more socially conservative.

Very interesting point though.

[bros402]

4 hours ago, RealReality said:

This is an interesting point I hadn't thought about before.  I imagine it's kind of the best of both worlds.  The show can have the appeal of inclusivity but still hold onto viewers who are more socially conservative.

Very interesting point though.

There was actually an interesting study I read the other day that Deadline posted that the Lear Center for Media did on political alignment & TV shows - conservative TV watchers do not want to watch anything that might make them feel emotions they do not want to feel

[thewhiteowl]

* MOD NOTE*

Topic, please. The show not who may or may not be watching it.

[12catcrazy]

19 hours ago, buckboard said:

Also, what was the purpose of the writers making Blake bisexual and Kat bisexual and then neither has a storyline with a same sex partner, but with opposite sex partners.

THIS!!!!  I had been thinking the exact same thing!  

[BuckeyeLou]

I like the idea of Stevie & Blake just being friends.  Maybe my memory is not so good, but I thought several seasons ago, there was an episode where Blake was interested in a good looking young man who was into music and they went to dinner together, or something like that?  Or am I imagining that? 🙂

[Florinaldo]

On 4/22/2019 at 5:52 PM, Notwisconsin said:

Bess (She's not MSec anymore), discusses how she LOST Iowa to the schmoe who they just had withdraw from the race. What was THAT all about? was it a joke or something?

Didn't he say he was "suspending" his campagnin, which means he is free to reactivate it at any time? Not that many real-life politicians do; when they suspend a campaign, they are usually gone for good.

[sinkwriter]

Quote

Poor Harriman.  As soon as he started eulogizing RFK, I knew he was dead.

As soon as they opened the episode with him instead of someone from the main cast, I said, "Yep. He's a goner."

Too bad. He was an interesting character and Skip did a good job with it. I admit I may have gotten teary when Elizabeth's secretary started crying about the "absurdity" of her crying over him when he's the one who made her cry. That was a really sweet moment, and I like that Elizabeth hugged her.

[sinkwriter]

Side thought: I don't care if Blake and Stevie get together or not (they're cute as just friends), but I did like that Blake immediately confessed to Mike B. Blake's an honorable guy, and I really like him. I wish we saw more of his character more often. If his dating Stevie gets me that, I could live with it, I suppose. Then again, he might want to rethink that, especially after what happened with Dmitri. Guys don't last long, dating Stevie. 😉 I'd hate to see Blake exiled somewhere.

[thenj]

6 hours ago, sinkwriter said:

Side thought: I don't care if Blake and Stevie get together or not (they're cute as just friends), but I did like that Blake immediately confessed to Mike B. Blake's an honorable guy, and I really like him. I wish we saw more of his character more often. If his dating Stevie gets me that, I could live with it, I suppose. Then again, he might want to rethink that, especially after what happened with Dmitri. Guys don't last long, dating Stevie. 😉 I'd hate to see Blake exiled somewhere.

I can totally see them getting together and Blake being suddenly awkward around Elizabeth.

[auntiemel]

On 6/28/2019 at 6:56 PM, sinkwriter said:

I did like that Blake immediately confessed to Mike B.

And Mike B's response had me cracking up. "Oh, God. Awkward Confession Theater."

And then the follow-up - "Go forth and sin no more. Or sin. No one cares."

[CheshireCat]

On 4/24/2019 at 1:50 PM, kwnyc said:

 And Stevie was a boss, telling Blake & Daisy that they don't have the CLEARANCE to know about her last romance.

I thought she was a self-important brat in that moment who was disrespectful and completely out of line. Blake and Daisy didn't want to be there any more than she (or the other kids) did but they were asking questions so that they could be prepared for what might be unearthed during a campaign. If Stevie doesn't like it, she should have taken that up with her mother.

But ever since Stevie started to intern for Russell, she's had these hissy-fits about having security clearance as if that makes her oh so important. She's an intern. And the only reason she knew about that boyfriend was because she was involved with him. But I doubt that she knows any more than what we saw was revealed to her and, generally, the information she is privy to is probably a drop in the bucket compared to what Blake and Daisy are privy to. Most of the time she was sorting files (and managing Russell's social media account).

Jason wasn't any better though. I really would have loved to see someone set him straight like Henry did back in S3 when he was supporting that Reynolds guy for president because he had fallen for the soundbites but had no idea what he stood for. For both, Stevie and Jason (and Allison to an extent) I was thinking, it's great that you're so independent and confident but how about being a little bit less self-absorbed. It wasn't about either one of them. It was about their mother and I'm sure none of them would have hurt themselves if they had cooperated.

And while Blake and Daisy were great in their own way (Blake's "bad cop"? cracked me up), I also would have loved to see Mike B. interview the kids. That would have been... interesting.

On 4/25/2019 at 8:14 PM, buckboard said:

Also, what was the purpose of the writers making Blake bisexual and Kat bisexual and then neither has a storyline with a same sex partner, but with opposite sex partners.

I kind of liked that there hasn't been a story in that regard. I feel that it's simply a fact, it is who they are but it doesn't define them, in so far, that this isn't their story. The job is their story.

On 6/28/2019 at 9:56 PM, sinkwriter said:

Side thought: I don't care if Blake and Stevie get together or not (they're cute as just friends), but I did like that Blake immediately confessed to Mike B. Blake's an honorable guy, and I really like him.

That was so absolutely hilarious! As was Mike B's reaction. Sometimes, Blake is just so gullible. But was I the only one who kept waiting for the paparazzi to show up and snap a photo of Stevie and Blake when Stevie went to see him? I'm glad they didn't go there, but I still kept waiting for it.

And I don't know why but that weird mountain photo wallpaper in the second potential campaign HQ cracked me up. Where did they unburry that?

.

As others have said, I liked Harriman, too, and I was sad to see him go. On the other hand, I'm glad that they didn't bring in a new character just to kill him or her off. Come to think of it, I also don't think that killing off a new character would have had the same effect. Yes, they could have written an established relationship between Bess and a random character and we, as the audience, could have assumed that Bess liked that hypothetical random character but many regular viewers probably had an emotional reaction to Harriman that they wouldn't have had to a new character.

That said, I did not think someone like Harriman would admit to having a lucky charm and even less that he would go through such length to get it back. But I liked that little touch and somehow, it fit him. I also loved the interaction between Harriman and Bess in that episode. I'm glad that they got this moment and that we got to see it.

I was a bit confused by Conrad in that episode. Maybe it's just me but after telling Bess that he doesn't know how much longer he can keep her resignation quiet, he seemed surprised that she wanted to announce the next day. I also wasn't sure why he told her that if she changed her mind he was happy to tear it up. I'm assuming they included that because Bess later asked if she could take her resignation back but he had just tried to convince Bess not to testify so she could announce her campaign on a high note (and caved when he realized arguing was futile, I'm assuming), so it didn't make that much sense. (And wouldn't Henry have likely resigned along with Bess or, at least, put in for a vacation after which he would likely have resigned? In other words, shouldn't Conrad have had an inkling that the announcement was forthcoming?)

But I did like the Oval Office scenes in that episode. They had a great mix of personal and professional and "Conrad's thinking about Bess' future".

I also liked to watch that last scene between Bess and Conrad and know how they reached that point. (As in, Conrad recruited her for the CIA and appreciated and respected how she worked and then wanted her as his Sec of State etc). I felt it added some extra weight to the scene and I think knowing these things makes the characters always a bit more real and relateable. And I liked how Conrad sort of pushed her out the door and towards her next step. Like he knew that she was ready for greater and bigger things and, as much as he probably wanted to, he couldn't hold on to her. Also, even though it was a disappointment for Bess (as I think she went there assuming he'd agree), they still managed to let the scene end on an upbeat note. Anticipation, probably, for what lies ahead for her.

Great conversation between Bess and the Russian foreign minister. I think this show has done such a great job of including bits and pieces of personal moments into conversations that Bess has with officials from adversarial countries throughout (they've done it with China, too). Same goes for these bits when they share "coded" information.

I'm glad that Callister decided to suspend his campaign and that was the end of that story, though. (Aside from the Russia story that I had no desire of seeing more of, I think one candidate with nationalist tendencies back in S3 was enough!)

I think the Senator who gave Bess a hard time during the hearing didn't do his homework. First, I think that he was comparing apples and oranges. Taking action against climate change and doing something to help climate refugees are two separate issues. This was a pressing issue, so Bess concentrated on that and she would have been stupid to do otherwise. Second, Bess already did at least one huge climate treaty with 200+ signatories, if I remember correctly. She's also the reason Conrad changed his foreign policy approach which also had to do with climate change. I realize that Bess couldn't respond differently for the sake of the story but I think the character would have. I don't think the Senator had a strong argument to begin with and even less so in light of everything Bess has done already.

Henry is afraid of diving? I did not see that one coming. I think it wouldn't have hurt if they had included it earlier and given Henry this true weakness because often times, they tried to make his weaknesses into something heroic. But in any case, I loved how he tried to talk himself out of getting certified (who came up with the comparison to a fish toilet?) especially that eel story. I doubt there are any eel where he and Bess planned to go and I'd probably be more afraid of sharks but okay. Eel it is.

I'm assuming they did go on that vacation? I would have loved to know if Henry got certified after all, though!

So, I guess, Bess and Henry have definitely decided not to sell the farm? But a nice setting and I guess, very fitting to announce the campaign. I loved the speech they wrote for Bess. I love when they incoporate real-life (and inspirational) quotes into her speeches and/or the story and kind of intertwine the two worlds. And it ended a fairly intense episode on a hopeful note.

[sinkwriter]

On 10/6/2019 at 9:05 PM, CheshireCat said:

But was I the only one who kept waiting for the paparazzi to show up and snap a photo of Stevie and Blake when Stevie went to see him? I'm glad they didn't go there, but I still kept waiting for it.

Oh my gosh, yes!! I was totally waiting for that to happen! I was practically yelling at my screen, "Don't you learn anything from previous paparazzi messes?? Stop hugging in the doorway where they can take pictures, and shut the damn door!" LOL.

If nothing else, Stevie's always been a mess when it comes to that stuff, but Blake should know better.

[shapeshifter]

On 4/22/2019 at 1:54 AM, bros402 said:

More ripped-and-reconfigured plots from headlines (see also the media thread), including a version of Benghazi turned on it's head because it's ricin instead of guns, and Madam Secretary is removed from the epicenter. And then Callister is a cardboard cutout in comparison to other nationalists on the national (and international) scene. 
I like the MSec version of the world better.

Moral of the story: If one loses one's lucky charm, one should not go to a banquet?

Speaking of "ripped-and-reconfigured plots" and "one's lucky charm," a couple of days ago I happened to catch Law and Order's 18.8 "Illegal," in which McCoy, in his new role as DA, "is accused of having a liberal ax to grind when he vigorously pursues charges against [an] officer."
Near the end, new ADA Cutter gives McCoy a gift. 
"What's this?" asks newly-minted DA McCoy.
"It's one of the tie pins from Bobby Kennedy's campaign in '68. I found it on eBay."

Edited October 11, 2019 by shapeshifter

[bros402]

6 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Speaking of "ripped-and-reconfigured plots" and "one's lucky charm," a couple of days ago I happened to catch Law and Order's 18.8 "Illegal," in which McCoy, in his new role as DA, "is accused of having a liberal ax to grind when he vigorously pursues charges against [an] officer."
Near the end, new ADA Cutter gives McCoy a gift. 
"What's this?" asks newly-minted DA McCoy.
"It's one of the tie pins from Bobby Kennedy's campaign in '68. I found it on eBay."

hahahaha

[Anela]

Poor Blake, panicking so easily. I can relate, I really like him. 

I already know there was another season, the last one, and it's just started as I've been typing, so I have to go and pause it.