Season 1 Discussion

[Aethera]

Premiering May 3rd on Netflix, starring Christina Applegate.

Quote

Dead to Me stars Applegate as Jen, a sardonic widow determined to solve her husband’s recent hit-and-run murder. When she meets an optimistic free spirit named Judy (Bloodline‘s Linda Cardellini) at a support group, the two women become unlikely friends despite their polar-opposite personalities. But as they bond over bottles of wine, Entenmann’s cookies and a shared affinity for The Facts of Life, Judy desperately tries to shield Jen from a shocking secret that could destroy her life as she knows it.

[Lady Calypso]

I'm surprised with how into the trailer I was. It really looks great. We'll see how it goes, but with a star studded cast like that, I have some hopes for it. 

[QQQQ]

I'm almost finished with ep 2 - very good, so far!! Will definitely binge this weekend.

[Anela]

I'm watching the first episode right now. 

[Anela]

I think that

 

Steven was the driver, in her car, and that's why they split up, and Judy found her.

And I've just watched a little more, and I guess he was in the passenger seat. 

Edited May 3, 2019 by Anela

[Valny]

Watched the first ep too. This is a keeper and I am very interested and excited to see how it all plays out. I did not see that first reveal coming. That was really good. And the second reveal at the very end didn't see coming either although I swear right before you see the

Spoiler

dented car, I said out loud, SHE ran over the husband!

Spoiler

And on a shallow note, James Marsden still looking goooood!

Edited May 4, 2019 by Valny

[Anela]

4 hours ago, Valny said:

Watched the first ep too. This is a keeper and I am very interested and excited to see how it all plays out. I did not see that first reveal coming. That was really good. And the second reveal at the very end didn't see coming either although I swear right before you see the

  Reveal spoiler

dented car, I said out loud, SHE ran over the husband!

  Reveal spoiler

And on a shallow note, James Marsden still looking goooood!

I figured out the last reveal, at the beginning. I was surprised the first reveal was true, though (when she told her why she was grieving).

[Peace 47]

I’ve had a truly horrible week, capped off by an epic disaster of a day.  I don’t normally sample new Netflix shows when I’m trying to calm down (usually I default to gentle 90s comedies, but the week was so bad, I knew I wouldn’t be sleeping tonight so I got a little more adventurous to find something to occupy my thoughts and landed here).  I didn’t realize it just dropped today.

This show is excellent, with an enormously appealing cast (Linda Cardellini in particular has never been better, and Applegate is spectacular, but everyone from to Marsden, to the guy who plays Nick to Ed Asner to Thelma Hopkins in her small role are really wonderful).

I can’t say that I don’t have a little bit of wistfulness for the show that I thought this might be from the setup in the first episode (before the twist that drives the serial plot of the season).  I thought it might be a straightforward show about dealing with grief and finding a lifeline in a friend.  It is so, so much extra on top of that, though, and the route that it did go is suspenseful enough to make me just enjoy the pulpy-ness of it all at this point.  This denouement of the season that I’m watching now is going absolutely, completely bonkers.  I mean, holy cow, yikes, this is nuts.

[Whimsy]

So, I binged the entire season yesterday. Excellently acted throughout. I really hope for a second season!

[Peace 47]

2 hours ago, Whimsy said:

So, I binged the entire season yesterday. Excellently acted throughout. I really hope for a second season!

I finished, too, and I agree!  Although this was so 10,000 miles per hour at the end there that I can’t imagine how anything else could really live up to that.

There are a few elements to the season  about which I’m not sure how to feel, and I think that I need to process further.  I guess there is no need to spoiler tag since the whole season is out there, but spoiler warning for the rest of my post because it references the finale.

I’m not sure how I feel about the twist that Ted was such a villain (he cheated, AND he told his mistress that his wife was dead of the disease that Jen was actually facing (so it was like wishful think) AND he turned on Jen completely after her double mastectomy AND he got into a horrible fight with her about it that led to his death).  Given the level of grief that Jen showed in the first episodes, I kind of felt that it was an emotionally dishonest twist.  Jen tells bird-Ted that she misses him early on, but their marriage in the last year sounds like a complete disaster, and it’s not that I don’t think Jen couldn’t still miss him and the good times, it’s just odd  ... as I said, don’t really know how to feel, because all the twists were such a wild ride, and it was definitely also fun to see things play out as they did.  It’s just like I felt as though I had been sold a more nuanced story of Ted being an pretty decent person who died horribly, and Judy having to face that she did something horrible to someone good, but Ted was a douche, and even the child who discovered his body was in no way scarred by the experience because she was fascinated with death already.

I kind of liked that Steve was just a minor douche (aside from being the instigator of leaving the scene of the accident), before he turned into an arch villain at the end.  Like, when he and Judy would get into it, and he would grab her (like you see on lots of dramas where someone grabs someone’s arm to keep them from walking away), and Judy would say, don’t do that, I liked that he apologized immediately, that he seemed to be grieving the miscarriages, too, and that he and Judy did have good times together.  But then he turned out to be a money-laundering sociopathic attempted murderer of Jen, and it kind of felt like he became all of those things just for the symmetry at the end of Judy and Jen killing each other’s significant others.  Maybe it’s just that I will miss James Marsden in any future season, haha.  I’ve always liked him in everything that I’ve ever seen him in and wish that he (like Applegate, actually) were an even bigger star than he is.

That detective handling Ted’s case was low key hilarious in the last couple episodes there, but I didn’t know if it was at all feasible that she was just telling Jen that Judy’s outright confession couldn’t accomplish anything.  (There was all the circumstantial evidence that Nick connected, too.)  Is that because the FBI wouldn’t want their money-laundering witness charged with manslaughter going into a potential trial?  They feared losing Judy’s cooperation?

Edited May 4, 2019 by Peace 47

[Lebanna]

I loved this show - I just binged the whole thing. It kind of reminded me of The C Word or One Mississippi, both of which I still miss...

And I think I just discovered that I love ‘grief comedy’. Not sure what that says about me, but this thing is brilliant.

[QQQQ]

That ending was so sudden, I rewatched twice to make sure I hadn't missed a scene or three.

[Valny]

I scrolled over the last few posts just in case I saw something that gave anything away.
 

I can see how easily bingeable this is, but I am pacing myself for the ride.

 After watching the second episode I was like, oh I see what you're doing show, you are dropping little information bombshells (Usually at the end) to this puzzle/storyline...am I'm loving it...so now I will be looking/awaiting for them for now on. I know it's been done before but I really can't wait to see where it's all headed. Hope it will have a satisfying ending.

I was on the fence weather Judy was really telling the truth about her last miscarriage until Marsden confirmed it when we see the baby's room...unless he in lying to?
Can anyone tell me without spoiling, if it's open for a second season?

[Chaos Theory]

I think when someone dies suddenly and so unexpectedly you don’t know how to feel about it so the emotions come out all confused.   It does actually explain the extreme anger Jen felt.  All the conflicting emotions coming out at once.  Anger from a bad marriage but grief from losing your husband. 

[Cactus]

4 hours ago, Valny said:

Can anyone tell me without spoiling, if it's open for a second season?

Yes

[Ms Blue Jay]

I was so freaking addicted and obsessed I stayed up until 4 am.  I haven't done that in months , maybe years?  It was really good.  I thought that Christina Applegate was fantastic.  I really liked it.  It took me 2 days to finish.

[preeya]

Just completed the binge and really enjoyed it. I thought Applegate & Cardellini played off each other very well.

[SHD]

If they don’t have a second season after how the last episode ended, I’m going to be mad. But I do think they’ll have to make it a different kind of show if they do move forward. I thought this series was fantastic, though.

Apparently James Marsden and Paul Rudd know where the Fountain of Youth is but just won’t tell anyone.

[mammaM]

51 minutes ago, SHD said:

If they don’t have a second season after how the last episode ended, I’m going to be mad. But I do think they’ll have to make it a different kind of show if they do move forward. I thought this series was fantastic, though.

Apparently James Marsden and Paul Rudd know where the Fountain of Youth is but just won’t tell anyone.

I hope it gets a second season but yeah, it's gonna have to be different unless season 2 is Jen trying to hide what SHE did from Judy. I think if this season was "friends with separate secrets" next season will be "friends with shared secrets".

And yeah, if not a fountain, then a picture in the attic growing old😂

[tennisgurl]

I just watched the first episode, and I thought it was great! I really was not sure what I thought this show would be (dark comedy? Finding friends and dealing with grief? Mystery) and I am honestly still not super sure, as I am desperately avoiding the comments here until I've finished season one. If the first episode is any indication, there will be a LOT of twists and turns, and I dont want to be spoiled for them!

Linda Cardellini and Christina Applegate are both fire in this already. 

[RabbitEars]

This hits a sweet spot between “heartwrenching depiction of sudden death in a family” and “dark but breezy  murder mystery comedy.” For some people, the shifts in tone will be too much, but I found it just right. If you’re like me and you can handle only so much raw grief, this is one for you. 

I just suggest starting it when you can really binge it all. It moves at a good clip, and you will not want to go to sleep not knowing how the last episode ends. 

[DrivingSideways]

Don't get me wrong, I watched this entire thing in two sittings and laughed a LOT.  It made my weekend.  However, there were so many holes in the story.  The complete dismissal of every shred of evidence by Laguna Beach PD seemed over the top.  It just seemed like a re-tread of Big Little Lies in some ways.  The end made no sense - James Marsden's character seemed like an asshole with no morals but it's a huge jump to put Jen in a self defense category.  

Christina Applegate and especially Linda Cardellini were so good.  Loved this season, although I have a feeling that future seasons are going to struggle to shock us every episode to diminishing returns.

[SHD]

2 hours ago, DrivingSideways said:

The end made no sense - James Marsden's character seemed like an asshole with no morals but it's a huge jump to put Jen in a self defense category.

But she took special notice of her neighbor telling her if she asks someone to leave her property and they don’t, she can legally shoot them.

I'm not sure anyone mentioned it yet, but there was a very telling detail about Judy. In several interactions with Steve, he would get belligerent, she would say something like, “Hey!” or “Stop!” He would quickly say sorry and almost immediately she would say “It’s OK”. Every time.

[Nordly Beaumont]

5 minutes ago, SHD said:

In several interactions with Steve, he would get belligerent, she would say something like, “Hey!” or “Stop!” He would quickly say sorry and almost immediately she would say “It’s OK”. Every time.

I noticed that too. For some reason I think she did it with other people too. Can't think of a specific time though because my memory is crap.

[Lady Calypso]

So, I am on episode eight at the moment but do know how the season ends. 

I will say that it's a good series, well acted and all. Christina Applegate and Linda Cardellini are obviously fantastic in their roles. I definitely find that there's less humour and more dramatic and serious moments than the genre calls for, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's a hybrid, but I find that this is more of a thirty minute episodic drama with some funny moments than anything.

I liked James Marsden playing a classic douchebag character, but I will say that while Steve is a piece of shit, I don't actually think Judy is that great either. Sure, she shows way more empathy than him and she was definitely manipulated by him to cover up the crime, but she's definitely a willing participant. I guess I should finish the last couple of episodes to really understand her thought process. Judy definitely has enabled Steve for a long time. It is a shame about Steve's end; it was basically clear-cut by episode five for me, and I feel like we could have had way more James Marsden. However, this show is about Jen and Judy, so I totally understand why they went in the direction that they did.

Applegate is probably the MVP for me thus far. Cardellini is obviously fantastic, but I think that the character of Jen has hit so many marks and done so well in showing her deep grief, even as Ted's secrets come out one by one.

I don't think I loved the series as much as other people, seeing as I haven't quite finished it yet. It was good, but I do think a season two can't rely on twists and turns like it did for this season. If it wants to do well, it needs to rely on other plot devices and not trying to shock us. 

[DrivingSideways]

10 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I liked James Marsden playing a classic douchebag character, but I will say that while Steve is a piece of shit, I don't actually think Judy is that great either. Sure, she shows way more empathy than him and she was definitely manipulated by him to cover up the crime, but she's definitely a willing participant. I guess I should finish the last couple of episodes to really understand her thought process. Judy definitely has enabled Steve for a long time. It is a shame about Steve's end; it was basically clear-cut by episode five for me, and I feel like we could have had way more James Marsden. However, this show is about Jen and Judy, so I totally understand why they went in the direction that they did.

I agree with you.  I think we are supposed to see Steve as the abusive husband who got his, but I just didn't see it.  He actually seemed pretty pleasant and even-tempered throughout the show.  I think we were being led down a path where he was physically abusive, and it never really panned out - as mentioned above, he would get aggressive and would immediately stand down when Judy called him on it.  Basically, whatever misdirect the producers wanted to go with, they threw in - in one episode, Steve has a restraining order against Judy, and in the next they are canoodling and reminiscing.  I think that's when we were supposed to be all "is she or isn't she?" about Judy's sanity.  So I'm curious what Season 2 will open with that absolves Christina Applegate of just being a murderer. 

The acting is all top notch.  This show just reminds me of stuff like "Unreal" or "Orange is the New Black" to some degree that starts out so strong and runs out of steam quick as the twists and turns get more ridiculous.

[Lady Calypso]

1 hour ago, DrivingSideways said:

I agree with you.  I think we are supposed to see Steve as the abusive husband who got his, but I just didn't see it.  He actually seemed pretty pleasant and even-tempered throughout the show.  I think we were being led down a path where he was physically abusive, and it never really panned out - as mentioned above, he would get aggressive and would immediately stand down when Judy called him on it.  Basically, whatever misdirect the producers wanted to go with, they threw in - in one episode, Steve has a restraining order against Judy, and in the next they are canoodling and reminiscing.  I think that's when we were supposed to be all "is she or isn't she?" about Judy's sanity.  So I'm curious what Season 2 will open with that absolves Christina Applegate of just being a murderer. 

The acting is all top notch.  This show just reminds me of stuff like "Unreal" or "Orange is the New Black" to some degree that starts out so strong and runs out of steam quick as the twists and turns get more ridiculous.

The biggest issue from this series, in my opinion, is how they were handling Judy/Steve. It definitely felt like the show was slightly more focused on deceiving the viewer on Judy/Steve, rather than letting their relationship play out naturally. What I mean by this was that the show seemed to focus on whether or not Judy was crazy or whether or not Steve was actually a decent guy, rather than just showing them as a couple and why they clearly were bad for each other. Judy flip flopped between not wanting to be with Steve and screwing him. Steve was more of a plot device than an actual character at times. He was a charming douchebag sometimes, and a total manipulate dick other times. The only moment that I felt like he was a real character was when Jen saw the nursery and he was unable to look in there. But even then, I had to watch several other episodes before I could really buy it.

The acting definitely saved the poor plot devices. Ultimately, like I said, the series is about Judy and Jen, not really about anyone else. So, in that regard, the show excelled at their story arc. It's just everyone else that kind of fell to the wayside, which is probably why I can't say it is an excellent series. It's good, definitely better than some other shows I've seen in the past year, but not excellent. 

[teddysmom]

12 hours ago, SHD said:

'm not sure anyone mentioned it yet, but there was a very telling detail about Judy. In several interactions with Steve, he would get belligerent, she would say something like, “Hey!” or “Stop!” He would quickly say sorry and almost immediately she would say “It’s OK”. Every time.

I noticed this too and did not care for it.  I knew we'd find out Ted wasn't the great guy we were led to believe in the first couple episodes,  and Judy breaking up with Nick just because she "thought" she might be pregnant. 

Nick would have understood that she had been with Steve prior to them hooking up at the grief thing, and FFS he would have been a great dad.  Mute point since she wasn't really. 

[Chaos Theory]

I think one of the important parts of the final episodes is concluding that Jen was essentially right about Judy.   She would have stopped.  It was Steve pushing the whole “we hit a deer” story.  I am not saying Judy didn’t play her part in this whole thing (She let herself get manipulated by Steve) but if Steve hadn’t been In the car Judy would have stopped.   

Edited May 6, 2019 by Chaos Theory

[Anela]

I watched episode 8 last night, and I guess I can see what happens in the last episode. So I was kind of right with my thoughts before: he may not have been the one driving, but he's a huge douche. He's nice enough, when he wants to be. It's weird to see him get a restraining order on Judy, and then be sleeping with her and "falling in love again" in the next episode. 

[Chaos Theory]

36 minutes ago, Anela said:

I watched episode 8 last night, and I guess I can see what happens in the last episode. So I was kind of right with my thoughts before: he may not have been the one driving, but he's a huge douche. He's nice enough, when he wants to be. It's weird to see him get a restraining order on Judy, and then be sleeping with her and "falling in love again" in the next episode. 

I think the show is quite clever in that way.    Steve spends most of the show being “nice enough” but even Jen comments to Judy that he is a secret douche (or something to that effect).   While the show is peeling away at the accident it is also peeling away at Steve, Judy and Jen’s personalities.

Jen’s anger was there long before her husband died.   Judy might be a little crazy but she is ultimately the kind of person who would have stopped,  while Steve seems like a good guy but he really isn’t.  

[Peace 47]

For as consistent as Jen’s anger issues are, I was surprised that she remained friends with the business partner who dumped her.  Maybe my anger issues are greater than Jen’s, but I would in no way want to socialize closely (and let my son spend time) with someone who didn’t even want to work with me anymore.  I would hold a grudge.

I thought the last episode had a powerful argument against suicide:  Judy stepped into traffic after losing all hope for her family with Jen, her family with Steve and even a future with Nick, but everything turned on a dime for her:  Judy calls her and tells her to come “home,” and all of the sudden she has a family again.

There were two scenes of intimate grief in the first episode that I found really affecting (Jen relentlessly sobbing into a pillow on the toilet and dressing in Ted’s schlubby clothes before calling Judy for the first time).  I had definitely sobbed into a pillow or two in my own time of grief.

[DrivingSideways]

1 hour ago, Peace 47 said:

I thought the last episode had a powerful argument against suicide:  Judy stepped into traffic after losing all hope for her family with Jen, her family with Steve and even a future with Nick, but everything turned on a dime for her:  Judy calls her and tells her to come “home,” and all of the sudden she has a family again.

I actually forgot to mention that... I thought it was so selfish of Judy to potentially put someone else what she went through by trying to get hit by a car.  I know the show wanted the symbolism but she could have picked a way to off herself without projecting the same pain on someone else.

[suomi]

Quote

Christina Applegate on Coming to Life in Dead to Me

The star of Netflix’s twisty dark comedy talks about cliff-hangers, smashing cars, and weaving her experience with breast cancer into the show.

_ _ _ _ _

... The car-smashing scene also forged a bond between Applegate and Cardellini, who barely knew each other when production began. After her act of vandalism, Applegate jumped into her own character’s car alongside Cardellini. “I was hyperventilating and crying in the car, even though we weren’t even on camera anymore. And I’m like, ‘I’m so sorry. I don’t know why I’m crying.’” Cardellini replied, “Your body doesn’t know you’re faking,” Applegate said. “That was one of the many times I fell in love with Linda Cardellini.” Every time they’d do a take of that scene, it would happen again: “I couldn’t breathe, and I would start crying, and she just would hold my hand.”

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2019/05/christina-applegate-dead-to-me-netflix-interview

Edited May 7, 2019 by suomi

[SadieT]

I love this show. Watched it in two nights. It was such an easy watch and Christina Applegate and Linda Cardellini are amazing throughout. They deserve every bit of praise they’re getting for their performances. 

Like a lot of people, I saw the first reveal at the end of the pilot coming but I think a part of me was hoping it would later be unrevealed. Considering how manipulative Steve is and how vulnerable Judy can be I was thinking perhaps he was gaslighting her the whole time and that we would come to find out that Steve was actually driving the car but somehow convinced Judy she was. I didn’t want this terrible secret tearing Jen and Judy’s friendship apart because it seems like such an impossible thing to overcome, but I think the show did a good job of setting the friendship to potentially get back on track in the last minutes of the finale with Jen coming to the realization that she knows who Judy truly is as a person and the Judy she knows and loves would have stopped.

If there’s a season 2 (there better be) I’m assuming we’ll find out more about just how awful Steve was but there were definitely clues to how manipulative and borderline abusive he could be throughout the series. Pushing Judy away and then pulling her back in at will, trying to convince Judy that she needed him to take care of her, him constantly crossing the line and immediately apologizing with Judy instantly forgiving him only for him to repeat the exact same behavior seconds later… it was all there. 

I also thought it was interesting that Jen instantly pegs Steve for who he is—an asshole—and doesn’t fall for any of his games, whereas Judy, who is more soft-hearted, was more susceptible to his charm and manipulation. It shows how different Jen and Judy are as people. 

[answerphone]

I just finished season one.  I want more! 🙁

[Anela]

I'm on episode 9, where she's just admitted it to Jen, and then finds out that her friend died while she was gone. I like the show, but they're throwing so much in at once, it's a bit much for me. Maybe because I'm sensitive over certain age-related things now, I don't know. It's just too much all at once. 

[HazelEyes4325]

I stumbled on this last night and decided to try it because I thought it was a comedy (in my mind, Christina Applegate = Comedy).  So, once I figured out that wasn't the case, I was already sucked in.  I'm only a few episodes in, so I don't yet have any strong feelings I need to share (yet), but I'm definitely tuning back in.

[DrivingSideways]

6 hours ago, Anela said:

I'm on episode 9, where she's just admitted it to Jen, and then finds out that her friend died while she was gone. I like the show, but they're throwing so much in at once, it's a bit much for me. Maybe because I'm sensitive over certain age-related things now, I don't know. It's just too much all at once. 

I loved this show, but I agree with you, and it reminds me so much of "Unreal", if you ever watched that.  The writers painted themselves in a corner where they had to have major cliffhanger reveals every episode and it just got to be too overwhelming and ridiculous.

[atlantaloves]

I binged the entire thing, I can do this because I am retired, and it was wonderful, and I normally do not like Christina, but like Linda F. a lot.  It was so funny and sad, I just couldn't stop watching it. I pray they have a second season, but I don't know how they are going to top this one, it is so well done and written. Anyway, I totally recommend it. Each episode is only 30 minutes, so it goes quickly. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 5/8/2019 at 1:57 PM, Anela said:

I'm on episode 9, where she's just admitted it to Jen, and then finds out that her friend died while she was gone. 

Can someone explain the relationship between Abe and Judy?  Was it a senior home where she was teaching art to the residents, and she was also living there?  I was really confused because I seemed to have missed the explanation.  For a long time I thought that Abe was her father.

2 hours ago, atlantaloves said:

I binged the entire thing, I can do this because I am retired, and it was wonderful, and I normally do not like Christina, but like Linda F. a lot. 

It's funny, I actually despised Christina on "Friends" and in "Anchorman", yet I watched the show "Samantha Who" and found it wonderful.  I liked Christina in that. I It also stars Melissa McCarthy and I'm a big fan of hers. Here, I think Christina is extraordinary.

I'm not that much of a Linda fan, but she was serviceable.

[atlantaloves]

Blue Jay: Yes, Ed Asner was her favorite patient at the center, they were not related, she moved in there because she had no place to go after her creep boyfriend kicked her out.  Word to the wise gals, unless you have a wedding band on, keep your own place! 

Oh and Look for Linda C. on the last season or two of Mad Men as one of Don Draper's lovers....she kills it! 

Edited May 9, 2019 by atlantaloves
forgot something, hey I'm old.

[Blakeston]

I liked this a whole lot, but I didn't really buy the "Steve is a psycho" thing in the finale (where he's coming at Jen even though she's pointing a gun at him).

Steve was definitely a jerk, and it seemed like all of his actions toward Judy were meant to manipulate her. He was keeping her out of his life, but then when he got worried that she'd confess, suddenly he wanted her to move in with him (and get away from Jen).

If it wasn't for his fear of her confessing, I don't think he'd have resumed the relationship at all. And his "maybe you should put yourself out of your misery" comment when she announced she was pregnant was ridiculous.

But all of that said...I didn't buy him acting like a rageaholic with a death wish when he was with Jen.

As for Judy, I think she's more than a little nuts. Stealing Nick's art, and pretending to be Jen when she talked to Bambi, were signs of a somewhat predatory person. She had a conscience, to a certain extent, but she was also perfectly willing to damage other people badly in her quest to create drama.

Did she really not consider how horrible Jen would feel once she realized her close friend was really the person who killed her husband? Or how awful it would be for another driver to kill her? It seemed like those things just didn't occur to her, because she was too wrapped up in her own dramatic world of self-loathing (and general selfishness).

[SadieT]

5 hours ago, Blakeston said:

I liked this a whole lot, but I didn't really buy the "Steve is a psycho" thing in the finale (where he's coming at Jen even though she's pointing a gun at him).

Steve was definitely a jerk, and it seemed like all of his actions toward Judy were meant to manipulate her. He was keeping her out of his life, but then when he got worried that she'd confess, suddenly he wanted her to move in with him (and get away from Jen).

If it wasn't for his fear of her confessing, I don't think he'd have resumed the relationship at all. And his "maybe you should put yourself out of your misery" comment when she announced she was pregnant was ridiculous.

But all of that said...I didn't buy him acting like a rageaholic with a death wish when he was with Jen.

As for Judy, I think she's more than a little nuts. Stealing Nick's art, and pretending to be Jen when she talked to Bambi, were signs of a somewhat predatory person. She had a conscience, to a certain extent, but she was also perfectly willing to damage other people badly in her quest to create drama.

Did she really not consider how horrible Jen would feel once she realized her close friend was really the person who killed her husband? Or how awful it would be for another driver to kill her? It seemed like those things just didn't occur to her, because she was too wrapped up in her own dramatic world of self-loathing (and general selfishness).

Steve’s rage with Jen wasn’t the first we’ve seen it. He got pretty angry with Judy during one of their talks in the assisted living facility and we saw him seething in the bank and melting down in his car when his financial scheme started to unravel. He was also pretty ragey when he was screaming at Judy to drive in the flashbacks of the accident.

Also I think Judy is more impulsive than predatory. For example in the grief retreat episode, when Jen returns to the room the following morning and starts crying about Ted, Judy tries to comfort her and says she wishes she could make Jen not feel so badly (or something to that affect) and then very impulsively (and foolishly) blurts out that Nick is a cop. She saw Jen was upset and did the first thing that popped in her head that she thought would help Jen feel better, which was pointing Jen to a detective who could potentially help her find out who hit her husband. Obviously connecting Jen to Nick wasn’t in Judy’s best interest but she almost couldn’t help herself and actually seemed happy to be doing it in the moment because it gave Jen some hope. 

I think she was doing something similar with Bambi by pretending to be Ted’s wife. Jen was upset and stormed out so Judy took it upon herself to gather the information Jen was originally out to get. I don’t think Judy is doing things to deliberately hurt anyone but she doesn’t seem to think things through and in her quest to make sure everyone’s okay she often ends up making things worse. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

4 hours ago, SadieT said:

Also I think Judy is more impulsive than predatory.

Why did Judy go to the grief group in the first place?  Was it to prey on Jen and to make sure she could absolve her guilt by befriending her and making sure her family was okay?  Didn't she basically confess that in the last two episodes?

And why did Judy pretend she had a husband who had died?

Edited May 10, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[DrSpaceman]

Loved the whole show, didn't see the ending coming. 

They didn't focus on it a lot, but I think at the end Steve knew he was involved with some very bad people and once his money laundering scam was discovered, and he had no money to use to I assume flee the country, he knew he was not going to live long.  Unless he got the money or check that Judy had stolen, he was going to be killed soon by one of his "business" partners.  No way were they going to let that investigation go very far OR take the chance he was going to flip and turn on all them in exchange for his own jailtime. 

3 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

And why did Judy pretend she had a husband who had died?

Edited 3 hours ago by Ms Blue Jay

I think just to have a common link with Jen and to more easily get on her good side, form a bond with her when they first met. 

Also every time I heard the dead husband called Ted, I automatically though of Ted from How I Met Your Mother. 

Despite the problems in their marriage, I think Jen needed Ted because she has such a hard time emotionally connecting with people, it seems like he was all she had in that manner. 

One thing that bugged me.  Yes, her son should not have been selling drugs at school.  But he sells drugs to someone, they get in a car accident and does damage and they make Jen pay for the damage, its her sons fault?  The other kid took the drugs and was driving.  Blame him.  I am not paying for that.  I will punish my son, but deal with your kids drug problem and pay for your own damage.  Or I will meet your in court. 

I am curious to see where this goes in season 2, but I would envision this as a short 3 season or so series tops.  Beyond that will be hard to buy. 

Actually has a lot in common with Weeds, now that I think about it. 

Oh, and its Kevin from Shameless!!  Good to see him in a different role. 

[Anela]

I don't think Judy stole the money. Her name was on the account, and she said that she never really took what money she'd earned - I guess, because they were engaged, and she had the credit card that he'd given her. 

I want to know how long she knew about the money laundering, though. I didn't like him from the start, and thought that he'd been the driver. I knew he was the one stopping her from coming forward. She realized, once he declared that he was just a witness, that he really didn't love her at all. She was the one to want to come forward, to go back to the scene of the accident, not leave him. Steve told her not to, and then just expected everything to be okay. Sociopathic dick. 

[Everleigh]

6 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Why did Judy go to the grief group in the first place?  Was it to prey on Jen and to make sure she could absolve her guilt by befriending her and making sure her family was okay?  Didn't she basically confess that in the last two episodes?

And why did Judy pretend she had a husband who had died?

I’m assuming she was following Jen after becoming fixated on her following the accident and saw the grief group as the perfect opportunity to approach her and see for herself how Jen was doing. Because Judy clearly has some boundary issues, she couldn’t just stop there but had to go even further and insert herself in Jen’s life, convincing herself that she could help Jen and atone for her mistake by being her friend. She was definitely motivated by a guilty conscience but I don’t think her intentions were malicious, just incredibly ill conceived. I think Judy lacks the foresight to see how much potential damage she is causing by making one rash decision after the other. 

As for why she lied about Steve being dead, I think she spoke impulsively when confronted during the first grief group meeting. She seems caught off guard when asked about what brought her to the group and probably said the first thing that popped in her head... she lost her fiancé, because he was gone from her life at the time and it was an easier loss to discuss than the real losses she had experienced. I mean, it’s possible Judy had it all planned out and is more calculated than I’m giving her credit for, I don’t think the show actually expanded on that...but this was my reading of her actions. 

Edited May 10, 2019 by Everleigh

[SoMuchTV]

All this Steve discussion is reminding me - what kind of criminal mastermind keeps ALL his ill-gotten money in a joint account with his ex?  I guess the story wouldn't work otherwise, and it does serve to make him look like more of an idiot.

[Anela]

20 minutes ago, SoMuchTV said:

All this Steve discussion is reminding me - what kind of criminal mastermind keeps ALL his ill-gotten money in a joint account with his ex?  I guess the story wouldn't work otherwise, and it does serve to make him look like more of an idiot.

Given his lifestyle, I couldn't believe that was all he had. I wonder if the house he lived in, was  bought with the money he laundered. It seems that's how he was going to pay for the two houses/apartments he was going to buy, that Jen showed him.