S02.E11: Perpetual Infinity

[Bort]

Quote

Burnham receives the reunion she's been longing for, but it doesn't go quite as she imagined. Georgiou and Tyler sense a disturbing change in Leland.

Airdate: Thursday, March 28, 2019

[starri]

Well, SMG and Sonja Sohn acted the hell out of that.

Michelle Yeoh, too.

[Ottis]

Wow, hated that episode. 

First, it uses a trope I despise... having the bad guy take over a “good” guy. We all know, but the characters don’t. So we are spinning our wheels until they figure it out. 

Second, more emotional ridiculousness from Michael. “I get to interview her because she is my mother!” “I know my mother best!” You don’t even know for sure who she is. And Michael, do you not understand that your time traveling mother has a much different perspective on time than you? Please. 

Finally, making an evil AI the big bad doesn’t do it for me. There is nothing to learn about it, no new race, no new customs, no meaningful addition to canon. They all argue over the motives of a computer. 

Discovery has so much to work with, and it’s completely uninteresting right now. 

[ottoDbusdriver]

I'm not buying Dr. Burnham saying that she was at all these other events during Michael's life -- didn't anyone notice the Red Angel suit at those other times, not just the significant ones ?   Or did Dr. Burnham develop some sort of time-viewing ?

And was that tachyon beam that brought Michael back to life part of the original suit ?  Or something she whipped up around the campfire ?

Would have been nice to find out how she moved that church to the planet that she is camped out at ?

If she's from the future -- and seems to know everything apparently (she knew who Georgiou was and they had never met before) -- how can she not know about the 7 signals ?  I wasn't sure how to read her response when she said no.

And what is the 'the larger mission'  ??  Both Dr. Burnham and Control/Leland said that, and it tipped of Georgiou that something was up with Leland.  Is Dr. Burnham actually working for Control ?

Starfleet security continues to suck -- Georgiou walked right up to Dr. Burnham, and no one from Discovery even bothered to say anything.

ETA:  How did Leland get into that chair before being injected with nanites/nanoprobes ?  Last we saw he was on the floor after being stabbed in the eye.

Edited March 30, 2019 by ottoDbusdriver

[Toaster Strudel]

This episode was such a hot mess of pointless sentimental drivel that I decided not to watch the next season.

Burnham is the center of the Universe... and of all time. I know it's scifi and I'm there to suspend disbelief, but come on. I've seen enough of her scenery chewing, and not following rules because of a pressing personal need. She's a storyline black hole, pulling everything into her orbit of overacting.

Spock is way too emo to be believable. He's one of the most emo crew members! What kind of Spock is that?

I had no patience for the fake science.

"What if we pack the bean expander into the quantum rectal fartometer?" "YES! Then we could propel the intelligent digesto-gas through the boxer portal... quick! Load the fudgeum!"  "THIS MIGHT WORK!"

Edited March 29, 2019 by Toaster Strudel

[ottoDbusdriver]

54 minutes ago, Toaster Strudel said:

Spock is way to emo to be believable. He's one of the most emo crew members! What kind of Spock is that?

He bares almost no resemblance to the Spock that was on Talos IV only 2 years previously in this show timeframe.

Don't even get me started on how he has always had space dyslexia.

[thuganomics85]

Sonja Sohn definitely knocked it out of the park here, at least, and was a great choice to play Michael's mom.  Obvious the scenes between those two were the big ones, but I did like that she got play off both Pike/Anson Mount and Georgiou/Michelle Yeoh too.

So, Control has now taken, well, control of Leland now, and I'm guessing will continue to be the main villain going forward.  Wouldn't be surprised if this all leads to Georgiou taking his position on the Section 31 ship, if/when he's defeated and if/when her spin-off happens.  Speaking of which, I'm guessing she was beamed up to Discovery with everyone else?  Her hanging around with the crew again should be fun!

I actually enjoy this Spock, since I've pretty much accepted that he isn't going to have any kind of resemblance to Original Spock or even the Spock from the rebooted films.  So.... I guess I'm saying I just like kind of petty and snarky Vulcans!

As much as I enjoy the guest characters, I do notice that the actual regular characters like Saru, Stamets, and Tilly have been taken a backseat a lot lately.  I hope they factor back in the main arcs soon.

[KimberStormer]

Honestly this episode made me wish this show had always been the Dr. Burnham show, instead of the Michael Burnham one.  She was so great, with a slight decline at the last scene when she got all softie with Michael after all.  Her hardass T2-Sarah-Connor "you're all dead already as far as I'm concerned" thing was great, and "time traveler discovers all life in the galaxy gone, has to keep going back to try to fix it" could be a great novel (maybe already has been?)  Loved her scene with Georgiou, although I thought Georgiou was uncharacteristically off the ball this time.  I thought the fact that Leland was suddenly not a pushover butt monkey like he has been for the entire season had tipped her off that something wasn't right, and his argument was wholly unconvincing, but she went ahead and started the download, and even when she turned it off she left everything in place to just turn it on again.  I did like her developing relationship with Ash.

Michael was maybe a little bit annoying but my own mom died when I was younger than she was and fuuuuuuck no I would not have listened to anybody's orders on that one, not Pike's and not hers, I would be Spock in The Menagerie style taking over the goddamn ship to go down and see her, sorry if you think that's wrong.

Nice to see Culber back in action but he seems weirdly cheered up? 

[paigow]

Things that Future!Spock never tells Future!Kirk:

I have a fully human adopted sister that Starfleet has redacted from the personnel database

I saved all sentient life in the galaxy...so why are you in charge????

No need to slingshot around the sun for time travel...I got a suit for that

[paigow]

9 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

ETA:  How did Leland get into that chair before being injected with nanites/nanoprobes ?  Last we saw he was on the floor after being stabbed in the eye.

A super hologram minion picked him up and put on the restraints.....

[TV Anonymous]

All the fake science talks is so hurtful as they make zero sense at all. And how does Gabrielle (Dr. Burnham) become an all-seing being? She is the only one in her time in the future. It is not like there is a history book that she can read. Next, the sphere data can be transferred, and by transferring it means that they are gone from Discovery's data repository. But they can not be deleted. That is not how data and database behave. Lastly, what happened with using the badge as communicator? Kirk and his crew did not use it. They used the clamshell communicator instead. Or is it Section 31-only technology that was kept hidden until Picard's time?

I am getting weary with Michelle Yeoh simply because I know that she will have her own show later. Just a little bit of her is better IMHO as we are getting the full serving later.

[MissLucas]

That was allover the place - i.e. pretty standard fare Discovery. I have notes:

• Nice try show, having Culber mentioning 'significant biological similarities between mothers and daughters, particularly the mitochondrial DNA' - BUT does that mean the ominous bio-neural signature that had everyone freaking out last episode is mostly based on data derived from mitochondrial DNA? And if so, why was everyone jumping to the conclusion that the Red Angel has to be Burnham? Would an off-spring of Burnham in the female line not have been a more logical conclusion? Since this show does not do literal razors (s. Tyler and Spock) could it at least embrace figurative ones like the good old model Occam 0.1?
• The techno-babble was really getting out of hand. Thank God Spock brought up Lao Tzu so that I had at least the inkling of an idea what they were trying to do. Screw science, I love philosophy.
• I love how nobody really cared about Tyler bleeding slowly to death and then all looking slightly bummed when they discovered the rescue pod.
• And while Culber is trying to keep Tyler alive (assuming he's over the whole murder thing) Burnham has a good old-fashioned cry on her bed. Not to belittle what she went through - but last week the show reminded us of the epic twu luv story between these two.
• Firewalls in the 23th century suck.
• All the episode's leading ladies were great. And Burnham has got to be the best collection of mother figures/maternal protectors out there. Which is a nice change of pace from all the father-figure shenanigans we normally get in tv shows of all categories.
• Mama Burnham not knowing anything about the signals is intriguing.

[paigow]

45 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

• Mama Burnham not knowing anything about the signals is intriguing.

Or the writers of this episode simply missed a meeting....

[Latverian Diplomat]

20 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

I'm not buying Dr. Burnham saying that she was at all these other events during Michael's life -- didn't anyone notice the Red Angel suit at those other times, not just the significant ones ?   Or did Dr. Burnham develop some sort of time-viewing ?

And was that tachyon beam that brought Michael back to life part of the original suit ?  Or something she whipped up around the campfire ?
.

Nothing about the suit makes sense. She can do things with it a starship can't even do. Where's all that tech coming from?

All the rules about it seem to exist purely for the set up, they don't make logical sense. It's tedious because it's so contrived.

2 hours ago, MissLucas said:

That was allover the place - i.e. pretty standard fare Discovery. I have notes:

• Nice try show, having Culber mentioning 'significant biological similarities between mothers and daughters, particularly the mitochondrial DNA' - BUT does that mean the ominous bio-neural signature that had everyone freaking out last episode is mostly based on data derived from mitochondrial DNA? And if so, why was everyone jumping to the conclusion that the Red Angel has to be Burnham? Would an off-spring of Burnham in the female line not have been a more logical conclusion? Since this show does not do literal razors (s. Tyler and Spock) could it at least embrace figurative ones like the good old model Occam 0.1?
• ...
• Mama Burnham not knowing anything about the signals is intriguing.

Is it still possible, that Michael will take up the Red Angel mantle at some point? Are these gaps supposed to be hints? If so, why is no one on the show wondering about that?

Section 32: Nitpicks Division.

Do phasers not have disintegrate functions anymore? If you can't kill Leland's nervous system, you could at least destroy the physical structure of his body. I had the same complaint about the fight with Ariam a couple of weeks ago.

What does Control need from the Sphere data exactly. It seems pretty damned capable and (maliciously) sentient already. What's the missing piece? Why isn't it keeping a lower profile and playing a long game (a natural advantage for an effectively immortal AI)?

Leland can wipe out a whole security detail in seconds, but he can't stab Ash to death properly. Just silly.

[Joimiaroxeu]

It was annoying to me the way some of the actors were pronouncing "sphere" like "spear." Wonder why the director didn't correct them?

Wow, a contrite Spock for a change. Maybe he'll be a good brother to Michael after all.

How terrible to be only the second most powerful woman in the universe. Yawn. Is this Star Trek or the Highlander?

[ottoDbusdriver]

1 hour ago, Latverian Diplomat said:

Nothing about the suit makes sense. She can do things with it a starship can't even do. Where's all that tech coming from?

Especially considering the suit tech is 20 years old in this timeline -- unless Dr. Burnham picked up some upgrades along the way.   Who knows -- maybe she's actually working for Control, and is just putting up a good front about being anti-Control.

I'd be curious -- in her linear time -- how long that Dr. Burnham has been time-traveling.  From her perspective -- has it been 5 years , 10 years, 30 years, more ??
And where is she getting sustenance from ?  Her first trip to the future was to the empty void of space -- where did she get food, water, etc. ?  And how did she discover that she could travel through both time AND space ? 

We are never going to see what's at the remaining signals -- since we only have 3 or 4 episodes left.

[Toaster Strudel]

1 hour ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

we only have 3 or 4 episodes left.

thank god for small mercies

[Miles]

There was some great acting in this episode, but also so much dumb. There was so much dumb, I'm probably forgetting some things.

•  A star goes super nova every second in the universe? What a stupid made up stat.
•  The energy a super nova emits depends on how massive the star that produced it was. It isn't just "12 times the energy our star outputs in it's entire life."
•  Neural signature being the same between mother and daughter when Colbert assured us just last episode that it was unique, as it should be, as no two brains are alike. Then some brabble about mitochondrial DNA. Please, what does that have to do with brain structure?
•  Encrypting something doesn't protect against deletion. How could it? At first I thought they meant that the sphere data somehow encrypted the entire system, but nope, it just made itselff magically undeleteable, yet still readable, somehow. Magic.
•  Data can't be transfared, as most people would understand it. Data can only be copied and then deleted at the source. That's what your windows machine really does when you cut and paste something, copy and delete. So if the sphere data couldn't be deleted it couldn't be "tranfared" to the suit.
•  Just like they could have beamed Ariam into an arrest cell, they could have beamed Leeland into space. They always conveniently forget that they have transporters. Convenient for the plot, that is.
•  The writers wanted to get the Borg into this show for a long time. So either they changed the Borg's origins completly, or they made themselves a bad discount copy of the Borg. Both bad options. I actually thought Leeland might have gotten assimilated last week with the eye poke, but this week we made it official with all the nanites streaming in.
•  Why is Micheal's mom teathered to the point in time she jumped to first and not the point she started from? Also why isn't she teathered to that point in space, only in time? That goes against what we've learned so far.
•  How can she have seen all this shit from Micheals life? People up to this point never had a problem seeing her, there was never any mention of stealth technology in the suit and she is not omnitiant.
•  How come Micheal didn't call her mother out right away, about how she came multiple times to save her, during the "I don't care about you anymore stick" she was doing during their first talk?
•  That whole techno babble about beaming Micheal's mother out of the time stream. Ouch.
•  Spock's logic, human emotion and dyslexia making him the only person able to understand mom. Yeah, that's not stupid at all.
•  20 year old suit has infinite storage.

Does nobody proof read these scripts? Do they get written in a coke fueled binge and then just sent to the set?

Edited March 30, 2019 by Miles

[SourK]

Props to the actor playing Michael's mom. I don't recognize her, so I don't know how she normally acts, but it looked like she pitched her performance to match what Sonequa Martin-Green was doing. Either it's super good casting or good acting, but the two characters seemed like they were related.

On 3/28/2019 at 11:59 PM, ottoDbusdriver said:

Don't even get me started on how he has always had space dyslexia.

Honestly, no offense to anyone with dyslexia, because I know that's a hard thing to deal with, but I find it really funny that they're trying to make this his super power. It's kind of like that one episode of Misfits where being lactose intolerant suddenly saved the day -- it's funny because it's such a mundane, ordinary thing and it's getting blown up to epic galaxy-saving proportions. (Also, don't get me started on why the Vulcans would be so mean about dyslexia rather than just appraising the situation logically and coming up with some alternative reading device for him or something).

On 3/29/2019 at 3:22 AM, thuganomics85 said:

So, Control has now taken, well, control of Leland now, and I'm guessing will continue to be the main villain going forward.  Wouldn't be surprised if this all leads to Georgiou taking his position on the Section 31 ship, if/when he's defeated and if/when her spin-off happens.  Speaking of which, I'm guessing she was beamed up to Discovery with everyone else?  Her hanging around with the crew again should be fun!

While I was watching her cooperate with Tyler, I started to think it would be fun and/or funny if they got together romantically. Mostly because Michael would hate it so much.

[KimberStormer]

2 hours ago, Miles said:

•  Why is Micheal's mom teathered to the point in time she jumped to first and not the point she started from?

This point is so completely baffling to me that I figured they must have given a detailed explanation for it and I just kind of missed it.  Surely there is some reason given?  Does anyone remember?

[paigow]

1 hour ago, SourK said:

While I was watching her cooperate with Tyler, I started to think it would be fun and/or funny if they got together romantically. Mostly because Michael would hate it so much.

Like "My mirror!evil surrogate mother figure is dating my ex-boyfriend".....

[mrspidey]

5 hours ago, Miles said:

•  The writers wanted to get the Borg into this show for a long time. So either they changed the Borg's origins completly, or they made themselves a bad discount copy of the Borg.

There has never been a canon origin of the Borg. 

[Latverian Diplomat]

3 hours ago, paigow said:

Like "My mirror!evil surrogate mother figure is dating my ex-boyfriend".....

Watch it now on Lifetime All Access.

6 hours ago, Miles said:

•  A star goes super nova every second in the universe? What a stupid made up stat.

It may be a stupid made up stat (in particular because we don't actually know how big the universe is, so at best it is referring to the visible universe), but it's not one they made up:

"On average, a supernova will occur about once every 50 years in a galaxy the size of the Milky Way. Put another way, a star explodes every second or so somewhere in the universe..."

From: https://www.space.com/6638-supernova.html

I suspect that planetariums have been saying something like that for years.

1 hour ago, mrspidey said:

There has never been a canon origin of the Borg. 

Not per se, but we know that they originated in the Delta Quadrant and didn't know about the Federation until the TNG era. An origin tied to Control would undermine that.

That said, if "mind controlling nanites" is a viable technology, it can be invented independently.

On the third hand, the resemblance to the Borg will be obvious to a Trek audience, with all the positives and/or negatives that entails.

[Lebanna]

So the Red Angel’s name is Gabrielle - the female version of the messenger angel from the Abrahamic religious traditions? And of course, it’s the same name as Gabriel (Lorca). And Michael is also the name of another angel.

I think they wanted us to see that, so hey writers, we saw it.

[Clanstarling]

On 3/29/2019 at 12:22 AM, thuganomics85 said:

I actually enjoy this Spock, since I've pretty much accepted that he isn't going to have any kind of resemblance to Original Spock or even the Spock from the rebooted films.  So.... I guess I'm saying I just like kind of petty and snarky Vulcans!

I'm enjoying him too. I don't get too incensed about canon (or at least we haven't hit anything that incensed me - reserving the right to get huffy in the future).

On 3/29/2019 at 1:22 AM, KimberStormer said:

Nice to see Culber back in action but he seems weirdly cheered up? 

Yes, he seems closer to original flavor. It would be nice to have an explanation - but I'm happy so I'm not going to complain too much.

17 hours ago, MissLucas said:

That was allover the place - i.e. pretty standard fare Discovery. I have notes:

• Nice try show, having Culber mentioning 'significant biological similarities between mothers and daughters, particularly the mitochondrial DNA' - BUT does that mean the ominous bio-neural signature that had everyone freaking out last episode is mostly based on data derived from mitochondrial DNA? And if so, why was everyone jumping to the conclusion that the Red Angel has to be Burnham? Would an off-spring of Burnham in the female line not have been a more logical conclusion? Since this show does not do literal razors (s. Tyler and Spock) could it at least embrace figurative ones like the good old model Occam 0.1?

I know, right? It did bug me a bit.

14 hours ago, Latverian Diplomat said:

Section 32: Nitpicks Division.

Do phasers not have disintegrate functions anymore? If you can't kill Leland's nervous system, you could at least destroy the physical structure of his body. I had the same complaint about the fight with Ariam a couple of weeks ago.

I'd forgotten about the phaser disintegrate function (or for that matter - transporting him out of there. I went full Section 31 and thought they would destroy the spaceship to prevent the data from getting into the bad guys' hands. 

[paigow]

2 hours ago, Latverian Diplomat said:

That said, if "mind controlling nanites" is a viable technology, it can be invented independently.

Leland looked more like Agent Smith, rather than Seven Of Nine / Hugh

[Clanstarling]

Though the quote from Hamlet was great and on point:

“Time is out of joint. O cursèd spite,
That ever I was born to set it right!”

 I thought, "You do know how Hamlet ends, right?"

[Miles]

8 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

This point is so completely baffling to me that I figured they must have given a detailed explanation for it and I just kind of missed it.  Surely there is some reason given?  Does anyone remember?

Noooope. It's just bad writing, baby. Whatever is convenient for the plot is true. Neurological signatures are the same for mothers and daughters, time travel suits a few hundret years too advanced exist and teather you wherever the hell the script demands, the transporter does and doesn't exist at the same time, etc.

4 hours ago, Latverian Diplomat said:

"On average, a supernova will occur about once every 50 years in a galaxy the size of the Milky Way. Put another way, a star explodes every second or so somewhere in the universe..."

The universe is for all intents and purposes infinite, so a super nova will happen much more frequently than once a second. Once every second is just something your avrage Joe gets told, because it would be hard to imagine something more frequent. I would expect a nerdy kid, like young Micheal seems to be, in the far future no less, to know better.

[mrspidey]

8 hours ago, Latverian Diplomat said:

Not per se, but we know that they originated in the Delta Quadrant and didn't know about the Federation until the TNG era. An origin tied to Control would undermine that.

That said, if "mind controlling nanites" is a viable technology, it can be invented independently.

On the third hand, the resemblance to the Borg will be obvious to a Trek audience, with all the positives and/or negatives that entails.

Depends on how they'd write it. 

Final showdown: Leeland/Control get defeated and flung back thousands of years into the past and into the Delta Quadrant. Control is heavily damaged and its nanoprobes are reduced to a singular command: Assimilate

At least, that's kinda how the novels did it, except the probes were used by a very advanced, benevolent but isolationist alien species. 

[Kromm]

On 3/28/2019 at 10:41 PM, ottoDbusdriver said:

I'm not buying Dr. Burnham saying that she was at all these other events during Michael's life -- didn't anyone notice the Red Angel suit at those other times, not just the significant ones ?   Or did Dr. Burnham develop some sort of time-viewing ?

And was that tachyon beam that brought Michael back to life part of the original suit ?  Or something she whipped up around the campfire ?

Would have been nice to find out how she moved that church to the planet that she is camped out at ?

If she's from the future -- and seems to know everything apparently (she knew who Georgiou was and they had never met before) -- how can she not know about the 7 signals ?  I wasn't sure how to read her response when she said no.

And what is the 'the larger mission'  ??  Both Dr. Burnham and Control/Leland said that, and it tipped of Georgiou that something was up with Leland.  Is Dr. Burnham actually working for Control ?

Starfleet security continues to suck -- Georgiou walked right up to Dr. Burnham, and no one from Discovery even bothered to say anything.

ETA:  How did Leland get into that chair before being injected with nanites/nanoprobes ?  Last we saw he was on the floor after being stabbed in the eye.

Exactly. This is all liquid bullsht. 

[ahisma]

I did like Culber relating to someone who has had an experience beyond normal human comprehension and how that changes them compared to their loved ones they left behind. 

And I enjoyed Giorgiou & Dr Burnham, Giorgiou & Tyler, and Michael & Spock. 

But I also agree that the episode was full of annoying plot points, like Michael's unique, exact, “we're so sure it's not a clone or alternate universe version” pattern suddenly became, “eh, mother-daughter, close enough.”

When they were trying to delete the sphere data, they could have just ejected/transported the computer servers into space and vaporized them with phasers or photon torpedoes—destruction is pretty easy to do when the fate of all sentient life is on the line.

[LittleIggy]

I ffed through most of this episode. I’m so tired of Star Trek: Burnham. They have so many interesting characters played by awesome actors. Why does the series have to revolve around her? At least the mirror universe arc was fun. Miss you Capt. Lorca!

[dwmarch]

On 3/29/2019 at 4:34 PM, Latverian Diplomat said:

Section 32: Nitpicks Division.

Do phasers not have disintegrate functions anymore? If you can't kill Leland's nervous system, you could at least destroy the physical structure of his body. I had the same complaint about the fight with Ariam a couple of weeks ago.

Leland can wipe out a whole security detail in seconds, but he can't stab Ash to death properly. Just silly.

That bugged me too. When fighting Leland they take some potshots at him but then they stop to have an emotional conversation. When that conversation concludes with "destroy the dishes" they dump on them like Compton gangstas with something to prove, busting off about a hundred shots in a few seconds. Hey dudes, try that on the bad guy who is currently kicking your asses and ganking your shit!

We also have the return of the secret surveillance device that beeps loudly and has colorful flashing lights on it.

I am fanwanking that Control forgot that Ash wasn't entirely human and stabbed him where it should be fatal but forgot that because he's a reconfigured Klingon his organs aren't where they should be. Or Control stabbed him thinking he was Klingon but forgot he was mangled into human shape. Either way, after stabbing him in the guts it very well could have directed the next knife towards his neck and that would have done him in regardless of his weird physiology.

[Latverian Diplomat]

On 3/30/2019 at 4:21 PM, mrspidey said:

Control is heavily damaged and its nanoprobes are reduced to a singular command: Assimilate

At least, that's kinda how the novels did it, except the probes were used by a very advanced, benevolent but isolationist alien species. 

The lawfirm of Nomad & Veejur would like to have a few words with the author of that novel... 🙂

[aemom]

This is becoming Star Trek: The Melodrama of Michael Burnham

Saru is going to die - must have Michael sobbing about losing her friend

Michael is upset about her rift with Spock - must have Michael crying about the whole situation

Airiam must be killed - must have Michael sobbing about airlocking her friend and then crying at her subsequent funeral

Michael finds out that Leeland is responsible for the death of her parents  - must have Michael sobbing and kicking his ass

Michael finds out that her mother is alive - must have Michael sobbing about wanting to beam down to see her

Michael finds out that they must send her mother back to the future  - must have Michael sobbing her goodbyes

I'm sure there was something with Tyler too.  At least once.

Lather, rinse, repeat.  JFC, can we please have a new plotline?

[Tyro49]

Control seems pretty sentient at this point; what does it need the rest of the info for? (Unless it just wants to know).

Seems the section 31 ship itself was already infected; Leland was then infected by his own ship; is the section 31 fleet we see in the promos for next week already infected, too? Maybe they will all have to be destroyed, leading to the non-mention/non-existence of section 31 in the next few ST series?

I still think/hope there will be some sort of time reboot at the end of this season??🤔

[xaxat]

I really want to like this show, but. . . .

It looks great, I think the cast is great. I think there are moments of really strong dialog (Culber/Stammets) for example). 

And yet, the overall plot feels lacking. They have spent the whole season leading to the idea that Control is the big bad who is an existential threat to sentient life and I'm not feeling it. 

(Starfleet, if you feel the need to build the ultimate AI computer, perhaps you should think twice before putting a self professed "extremist" in charge of the project.)

[paigow]

16 hours ago, Tyro49 said:

Seems the section 31 ship itself was already infected; Leland was then infected by his own ship; is the section 31 fleet we see in the promos for next week already infected, too? Maybe they will all have to be destroyed, leading to the non-mention/non-existence of section 31 in the next few ST series?

HYDRA infiltrated S.H.I.E.L.D. leading to the eventual demise of both host and parasite......

[fauntleroy]

On 4/1/2019 at 4:21 PM, aemom said:

This is becoming Star Trek: The Melodrama of Michael Burnham

Saru is going to die - must have Michael sobbing about losing her friend

Michael is upset about her rift with Spock - must have Michael crying about the whole situation

Airiam must be killed - must have Michael sobbing about airlocking her friend and then crying at her subsequent funeral

Michael finds out that Leeland is responsible for the death of her parents  - must have Michael sobbing and kicking his ass

Michael finds out that her mother is alive - must have Michael sobbing about wanting to beam down to see her

Michael finds out that they must send her mother back to the future  - must have Michael sobbing her goodbyes

I'm sure there was something with Tyler too.  At least once.

Lather, rinse, repeat.  JFC, can we please have a new plotline?

Saw Martin-Green out of character in an ad for CBS All Access. She is gorgeous wow but they rely too much on lingering on her about-to-cry face. Her eyes shimmering with incipient tears. It seems harder for her to emote in other ways. Maybe it's the script. The other characters are less one-dimensional, and manage some light moments but for her it's pretty much one note IMO. That plus the harsh cold blue lighting puts me off. And the plots of course 🙂

[shrewd.buddha]

The Red Angel and the Red Signals are not related?
..but the Red Angel gave Spock visions of the future. And from that Spock drew a map of the Red Signals.. (A map no one has bothered to use.)

It does make sense now that Section 31 would be obsessed with finding the Red Angel since it was their project .. but the Red Signals are not the Red Angel, so ..? 

How did Michael not remember the Red Angel suit? From the flashbacks, it appeared that the suit was basically sitting in their living quarters - her Mom went straight from putting Michael in the closet to strapping into the suit. Michael would have seen most of what her parents were working on. 
And now we learn that Michael never saw the dead bodies of her parents. (?)

It was very obvious that Leland did not answer Michael when she asked if her father was also still alive. Are they saving that for the next season where everything is again centered around Michael? 

Did the evil AI come from the future with Mommy Burnham or did it originate in the past? 
Is this like a Terminator situation where both parties are trying to change the past to help bring about their preferred future? 
And isn't Mommy Burnham only creating 804 alternative futures? (what I learned from Avengers: End Game - whatever happened cannot un-happen)

Mommy Burnham seems to be trying to create a timeline where the evil AI does not kill all life - but is also watching Michael grow and saving her life occasionally? 
She will change the past to keep Michael alive, but she didn't bother to alter circumstances to stop Michael from instigating a war with the Klingons? A war that cost many, many lives  ...  just not Michael's life? 
Why say "I watched you die a hundred times" as if she was now focused on "the big picture"? She got trapped because she is still intervening to save Michael.

Isn't Mommy Burnham supposed to save Michael by changing the past - not directly appearing and shooting her with healing(?) beams? Why didn't the Angel personally save young Michael from the Vulcan sand spider - why 'undo' Michael's death by going back to wake up baby Spock? Some consistency would be nice.

STD is a visually impressive mess. It is as if the writers are trying to make every story element fit together whether it makes sense or not. 

Edited September 21, 2019 by shrewd.buddha
grammer

[John Potts]

I did like the poisoned chalice (or perhaps "The Ring*") of the information the Angel provides being something everyone wants, however dangerous. That part made sense (particularly that Section 31 would want it), even if nothing else did.

I thought Control took over Leland by injecting him with Treknobabble (probably Nanobots). Or was he just a hologram (the sort that can interact with people like The Doctor)? At least Michelle Yeoh got to kick some ass again - I get that we're meant to see this as The Empress feeling something for her surrogate daughter, but it's not really - she can't take over the Galaxy if it gets destroyed first!

On 4/1/2019 at 9:20 AM, dwmarch said:

I am fanwanking that Control forgot that Ash wasn't entirely human and stabbed him where it should be fatal but forgot that because he's a reconfigured Klingon his organs aren't where they should be. Or Control stabbed him thinking he was Klingon but forgot he was mangled into human shape. Either way, after stabbing him in the guts it very well could have directed the next knife towards his neck and that would have done him in regardless of his weird physiology.

Or maybe his backup organs kicked in?

* I was thinking Tolkien, but actually this Ring works too

[Paloma]

On 3/29/2019 at 5:10 PM, MissLucas said:

• I love how nobody really cared about Tyler bleeding slowly to death and then all looking slightly bummed when they discovered the rescue pod.
• And while Culber is trying to keep Tyler alive (assuming he's over the whole murder thing) Burnham has a good old-fashioned cry on her bed.

Did I miss a scene? Because after Tyler was stabbed (or whatever) and sent his seemingly dying message ("Leland"), and then apparently got into a rescue pod, I didn't see any scene where he was brought back to the ship and given life-saving treatment.