S09.E11: Peace Gathering

geauxaway · March 28, 2019

21 minutes ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

Look, I know Adam's an asshole, but this delusional adoption fantasy Chelsea has (and is inappropriately pushing on Aubree) is beyond moronic. There's less than a snowball's chance in hell he'd give up parental rights, and even if he wanted to, his parents would never let him. Plus, Aubree is probably going to dig her heels in at the idea of (as C&C seem to imagine it) totally discarding a bio parent. I'm guessing she craves Adam's time/validation more precisely because he's barely ever there. And from Aubree's perspective, I could understand the frustration that C&C are so fixated on obsessively rehashing every time her dad blinks & sneezes. In her eyes, they're just ganging up on her dad when he actually tries and shows up...and then yanking her away from him when they have actual bonding time.

I get that Chelsea feels guilty that Aubree has ol' shitbag Adam for a dad and spent her early childhood as an only child, whereas her younger kids will be treated to a Pinterest Deluxe lifestyle and an army of fellow Coleeeeeeeeee spawn popped out as fast as Chelsea can ovulate, but she can't change the past or vote Adam off the island because she's decided Cole is the better father figure. Plus both Chelsea and Cole have started doing this weird peacocking thing to each other about how protective they are of Aubree to...impress themselves with their mutual parenting skills? Which totally disregards Aubree's feelings and at this point they're treating her like a little spy to gather dirt on the Linds. Trying to force Adam out of the picture out of spite or to perpetuate their "perfect Coleeeee family" image is only going to alienate Aubree further and drive her into Adam's arms, especially as she enters her teen years.

A big ole YEP! Which is why it’s so obvious that none of these jokers has taken the time to get any assistance or therapy for the situation.

I’ve taken many parenting classes (licensed foster parent) and they preach to high heaven the “Barbie” syndrome. The kid inherently knows their bio is not awesome, but in these kids minds no matter the age or abuse they have endured, mom is beautiful as Barbie driving a pink corvette and living in a mansion. (You can apply this to any gender, you get what I am saying).

Poor Aubree, who probably knows by now that her mom really just prays for her dad to OD and die. It’s ok to have those feelings, but you don’t let the littles know!

Edited March 28, 2019 by geauxaway

TheRealT · March 28, 2019

15 minutes ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

Look, I know Adam's an asshole, but this delusional adoption fantasy Chelsea has (and is inappropriately pushing on Aubree) is beyond moronic. There's less than a snowball's chance in hell he'd give up parental rights, and even if he wanted to, his parents would never let him. Plus, Aubree is probably going to dig her heels in at the idea of (as C&C seem to imagine it) totally discarding a bio parent. I'm guessing she craves Adam's time/validation more precisely because he's barely ever there. And from Aubree's perspective, I could understand the frustration that C&C are so fixated on obsessively rehashing every time her dad blinks & sneezes. In her eyes, they're just ganging up on her dad when he actually tries and shows up...and then yanking her away from him when they have actual bonding time.

I get that Chelsea feels guilty that Aubree has ol' shitbag Adam for a dad and spent her early childhood as an only child, whereas her younger kids will be treated to a Pinterest Deluxe lifestyle and an army of fellow Coleeeeeeeeee spawn popped out as fast as Chelsea can ovulate, but she can't change the past or vote Adam off the island because she's decided Cole is the better father figure. Plus both Chelsea and Cole have started doing this weird peacocking thing to each other about how protective they are of Aubree to...impress themselves with their mutual parenting skills? Which totally disregards Aubree's feelings and at this point they're treating her like a little spy to gather dirt on the Linds. Trying to force Adam out of the picture out of spite or to perpetuate their "perfect Coleeeee family" image is only going to alienate Aubree further and drive her into Adam's arms, especially as she enters her teen years.

ITA and, also, if Adam does end up dead from whatever cause, it's likely that Aubree will end up idealizing him and feeling like C&C were wrong to "keep her away from him" when he was alive. I think C&C should take a different/less rigid approach to dealing with the Linds because it's ultimately in Aubree's best interest. I don't think the elder Linds are evil child endangerers, but I can see how they're less than perfect and how they've been at least somewhat shady in their handling of Aubree's visits.

IMO, C&C should at least explore finding a "middle way" to deal with them that will not require villainizing the Linds (even if they sort of deserve it)/alienating Aubree from the Linds OR putting Aubree in danger. To me, it seems pretty reasonably possible for that to happen, but it would require C&C to drop their righteous indignation/need to punish Adam and his parents and be open to communicating more with the Linds (NOT saying that the Linds are blameless or "better" than C&C).

For me, C&C being salty about Adam going to Aubree's school for lunch was telling. If it's true that their primary/sole issue is Aubree's safety, they should have been happy that she had a chance to see her dad in a safe environment. But they were annoyed, seemingly because they didn't have control over the visit and because it allowed Adam to see Aubree "on his own terms" (I forget their exact words, but it was something along those lines). It was clear that they want him to be subjected to the "punishment" of only seeing her at the visiting center and to have to conform to the visiting center's rules (which I assume are more stringent than the requirements for going to lunch at her school). I totally get why they feel that way, but it's not in Aubree's best interest for them to act based on those feelings rather than on what's best for her (Which, IMO, is to have as full a relationship as is possible/safe with the Linds, INCLUDING Adam (and I hate Adam, always have).

geauxaway · March 28, 2019

11 minutes ago, TheRealT said:

ITA and, also, if Adam does end up dead from whatever cause, it's likely that Aubree will end up idealizing him and feeling like C&C were wrong to "keep her away from him" when he was alive. I think C&C should take a different/less rigid approach to dealing with the Linds because it's ultimately in Aubree's best interest. I don't think the elder Linds are evil child endangerers, but I can see how they're less than perfect and how they've been at least somewhat shady in their handling of Aubree's visits.

IMO, C&C should at least explore finding a "middle way" to deal with them that will not require villainizing the Linds (even if they sort of deserve it)/alienating Aubree from the Linds OR putting Aubree in danger. To me, it seems pretty reasonably possible for that to happen, but it would require C&C to drop their righteous indignation/need to punish Adam and his parents and be open to communicating more with the Linds (NOT saying that the Linds are blameless or "better" than C&C).

For me, C&C being salty about Adam going to Aubree's school for lunch was telling. If it's true that their primary/sole issue is Aubree's safety, they should have been happy that she had a chance to see her dad in a safe environment. But they were annoyed, seemingly because they didn't have control over the visit and because it allowed Adam to see Aubree "on his own terms" (I forget their exact words, but it was something along those lines). It was clear that they want him to be subjected to the "punishment" of only seeing her at the visiting center and to have to conform to the visiting center's rules (which I assume are more stringent than the requirements for going to lunch at her school). I totally get why they feel that way, but it's not in Aubree's best interest for them to act based on those feelings rather than on what's best for her (Which, IMO, is to have as full a relationship as is possible/safe with the Linds, INCLUDING Adam (and I hate Adam, always have).

Visitation at the center is....umm not great. Have you ever gone to visit an adult in jail or prison? It’s like that. No one wants to be there. I get the icky’s every time I enter one of those places.

For Adam or whoever to go to the school to have lunch, come on now. He had to have checked in at the school (our school now has a kiosk! It’s awesome except for the ugly worse than DMV photo it takes of me). If Chelsea had a no contact orders, the school would have that on file and the RO would turn him away the minute he tried to get buzzed in the door. If the judge explicitly said no visits at the school, the school would enforce that.

I hardly suspect Grandma Donna is the devil incarnate. She has made some bad judgment calls, but my mom has also told me multiple times “you didn’t wear a bike helmet and you are FINE!” I scold her and say things are different now Ma! 🤣

geauxaway · March 28, 2019

8 hours ago, Mkay said:

This! We did everything we could to try to let my daughter have a relationship with my in-laws. They continuously broke our trust and threatened us. My situation is not like Chelsea’s. We broke contact after my MIL assaulted me. However, anytime (small town) I see her, hear her name, or she contacts my family to pass messages I have a full on panic attack. My body shakes and I can’t even think. (This woman threatened to kidnap my child and kill me so SHE would call HER mom. She’s psycho!). Chelsea’s isn’t to this extreme but who’s to say she can’t handle confrontation with Donna anymore. If you haven’t been in that situation, you don’t know. One of the many reasons we are moving far, far away.

I’m sorry this has happened to you, but that is kind of an extreme case. I do not see how this is comparable to Chelsea and Donna. Has Donna attacked, harmed or assaulted Chelsea? I get she violated the order, but then Chelsea should have involved the authorities not Cole.

If Chelsea didn’t have Cole, I’m sure she could care less about this. It was a free every other weekend to her until her new baby daddy showed up.

Edited March 28, 2019 by geauxaway

Mkay · March 28, 2019

1 hour ago, geauxaway said:

I’m sorry this has happened to you, but that is kind of an extreme case. I do not see how this is comparable to Chelsea and Donna. Has Donna attacked, harmed or assaulted Chelsea? I get she violated the order, but then Chelsea should have involved the authorities not Cole.

If Chelsea didn’t have Cole, I’m sure she could care less about this. It was a free every other weekend to her until her new baby daddy showed up.

Do I think pushing adoption on Aubree is wrong? Yes. She will decide on her own. With my awful experience though I just can’t get on board with the grandparents side. I think I get flashbacks of my psycho MIL and go into panic mode. Ha

geauxaway · March 28, 2019

9 hours ago, Mkay said:

Do I think pushing adoption on Aubree is wrong? Yes. She will decide on her own. With my awful experience though I just can’t get on board with the grandparents side. I think I get flashbacks of my psycho MIL and go into panic mode. Ha

Oh I totally get it! I decided (for my own mental health) to move to a different state because of a terrible ex. The PTSD factor is real, I know exactly what you are saying when you refer to your MIL.

woodscommaelle · March 28, 2019

Um, Ali's eye doctor needs to chill. "If she loses her one good eye, it's going to be a disaster!"

Dude, not in front of Ali. That pissed me off. I get having a child know what's doing with their health, but to call it a 'disaster' is intense and scary...to anyone of any age.

Lemur · March 28, 2019

13 hours ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

Pinterest Deluxe lifestyle

This is the absolute best description of Chelsea and Cole's life I've ever read.

Christina87 · March 28, 2019

12 hours ago, geauxaway said:

I’m sorry this has happened to you, but that is kind of an extreme case. I do not see how this is comparable to Chelsea and Donna. Has Donna attacked, harmed or assaulted Chelsea? I get she violated the order, but then Chelsea should have involved the authorities not Cole.

If Chelsea didn’t have Cole, I’m sure she could care less about this. It was a free every other weekend to her until her new baby daddy showed up.

YES!!!!! My feelings exactly. When else would she have gone out and partied before? She also seemed to love the free weekends when she was dating coley, and right after they had Watson. Remember how giddy she was when Aubree left with Grandma donna and they could snuggle up with the baby? Grandma Donna was great when her visits were indirectly enhancing "Cole's experience." Now Cole wants to experience being Aubree's real dad, so the things the linds did years ago, that Chelsea didn't care about, are suddenly really serious. Chelsea definitely puts Cole's feelings above everyone else's to a ridiculous degree. She should watch out...she used to do the same with Adam, and that's why she's in this mess! If she had let him leave in the beginning, coley daddy would be Aubree's only daddy!

Scarlett45 · March 28, 2019

@Christina87 in Chelsea’s defense, Adam’s bad behavior has escalated throughout the years. He went from being an absent deadbeat with a mean streak to an addict with several DUIs, a felon AND he brutually attacked his girlfriend Stacia and broke her arm (this was right after Watson was born I believe- she left him and got a restraining order). At the time Adam & Stacia we’re living at Grandma Donnas. Stacia had always been kind to Aubree and Aubree liked her a lot. After Adam broke his girlfriend’s arm I can understand Chelsea cracking down on Adam’s access to aubree. I think Adam is dangerous. I wouldn’t be surprised if he threatened his own family members.

Chelsea has been pretty good about consistency regarding boundaires with Adam, unlike Maci from TM:OG who showed no concern when Ryan was clearly high on god knows what.

I think Adam doesn’t come to the visitation center because he doesn’t want to pay the fee, it has nothing to do with Aubree’s well being or comfort. I wouldn’t be surprised if his parents bribed him to come to school lunches.

ghoulina · March 28, 2019

48 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I think Adam doesn’t come to the visitation center because he doesn’t want to pay the fee, it has nothing to do with Aubree’s well being or comfort. I wouldn’t be surprised if his parents bribed him to come to school lunches.

I wonder, do they drug test him at the visitation center?

alexa · March 28, 2019

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

@Christina87 in Chelsea’s defense, Adam’s bad behavior has escalated throughout the years. He went from being an absent deadbeat with a mean streak to an addict with several DUIs, a felon AND he brutually attacked his girlfriend Stacia and broke her arm (this was right after Watson was born I believe- she left him and got a restraining order). At the time Adam & Stacia we’re living at Grandma Donnas. Stacia had always been kind to Aubree and Aubree liked her a lot. After Adam broke his girlfriend’s arm I can understand Chelsea cracking down on Adam’s access to aubree. I think Adam is dangerous. I wouldn’t be surprised if he threatened his own family members.

Chelsea has been pretty good about consistency regarding boundaires with Adam, unlike Maci from TM:OG who showed no concern when Ryan was clearly high on god knows what.

I think Adam doesn’t come to the visitation center because he doesn’t want to pay the fee, it has nothing to do with Aubree’s well being or comfort. I wouldn’t be surprised if his parents bribed him to come to school lunches.

Totally agree. And the Lind's have never been great about following the visitation orders either. So I am not sure I would have a lot of trust in them. But Adam is definitely a serious problem and needs to be taken seriously. I can't blame any parent doing their best to put as many boundaries in place as possible for a situation like Adam being the father.

I also want to add, if something were to happen to Chelsea, I am pretty sure Aubrey would want Cole to be her "main" father and guardian, 100%. Even if she wants some time with the Linds, for full time custody, I can't see her being happy with a situation where Adam becomes her primary guardian or the extended family. Cole and Chelsea are her main family, and who she knows/connects with the most.

Edited March 28, 2019 by alexa

woodscommaelle · March 29, 2019

On 3/25/2019 at 11:19 PM, Blissfool said:

Marroquin is pronounced ma-do-keen, Javi.

I had to rewind and put on captions bc I thought he said they named their son Eli Joseph American.

Christina · March 29, 2019

I know a thirteen year old, in SD, whose mother died two years ago and he wanted to stay with his step dad. His bio dad not only got custody, he got a restraining order against stepdad to keep him from contacting his son because it was causing "stress and confusion." Bio dad is a major alcoholic who has spent time in prison for attempted manslaughter after a drunken bar fight and was not in his son's life for the years he was there, I think it was six years.

Adam is a dangerous addict who has never harmed Aubree directly and has never been absent from her life. His parents were given court ordered visitation because they have been in her life since birth and have a strong relationship with their granddaughter. Ignoring Chelsea's wishes over completely reasonable things, like don't let Adam drive with Aubree and don't let her ride dirt bikes and four wheelers without a helmet, can lose them that visitation and did end up having their time cut to one weekend a month. Adam then posts a photo of himself with Aubree on Instagram and Chelsea went to her attorney asking for the visitations to stop and her attorney told her she was going to send a letter first, which she did and it said something about looking at paragraph whichever. Donna then showed up and the house and Chelsea hid from her. She came back later and told Cole, who answered the door while Chelsea still hid, that she misunderstood the order. Then she calls them this time and Cole goes to get her.

As soon as Cole entered the picture Chelsea began to be fed up with Adam. I don't blame his parents for thinking she was cutting Adam out childishly and unfairly because she was acting childishly. She's not wrong to protect Aubree from Adam or to expect his parents to acknowledge his issues, her desires for her daughter, and to obey the court order she had to get spelled out because they wouldn't and the court decided they deserved visitation time. Chelsea has not handled the situation with Adam right from the moment Cole entered the picture.

Randy tweeted that Chelsea dated Cole for several months before introducing him to Aubree, which was met with responses of Chelsea's SM photos of the three of them with captions of him meeting her the day after their first date. Cole didn't want to be on camera at first, with good reason AFAIC, but had no problem drafting off her social media presence and fans to post ads, as did his sister. He then created a sock line. It looks like his family knows the value of work and he realizes that his state job shouldn't be thrown away for what should be expected to be fleeting air time, but we all know this show is never going away.

I have no doubt that Cole truly loves Aubree and would fight for custody if Chelsea were to pass away, and I seriously doubt Adam has the ability to love anyone and would only fight for custody to figuratively, and likely literally, piss on Chelsea's grave while waiving his dick at Randy and Cole, and would receive it. It's fucked up, it doesn't sound fair or in the best interests of Aubree, but the court system has determined, based on years of psychological research, that children are best served from having their biological parents in their lives along with their extended families. Adam will get dozens of chances to fail before anyone else would get the chance, and I guarantee his mom has spoken to his attorney about it and has determined how best to keep her visitation in tact should Adam finally fulfill his death wish. This whole adoption discussion is just screwing with Aubree's head for the benefit of Chelsea and Cole making sure she knows that Colee is her dad, too, and is ready to adopt her if she wants. It's sick and disturbing and Randy told them to cut it out because he sees it, too.

In case it isn't clear from my post, I think Chelsea and Cole are wrong with the way they are handling integrating Cole by pretending Adam doesn't exist and can just be written off, but Adam is trash and can go far away at any time. He doesn't give a damn about Aubree and never will, addict or sober.

DangerousMinds · March 29, 2019

I KNEW Chelsea lied about not introducing Cole to Aubree for months! Why does no one call her out on those lies? And Randy's.

ReadMeLattice · March 29, 2019

I've never been a big Chelsea fan-- she always seemed like a pinnacle of mediocrity to me, pretty lazy, and wayyyyy too obsessed with guys-- so I'm not surprised at how immature she came off in parts of this episode. Still, what Donna is doing would piss me off royally. She is making excuse after excuse for her son and her behavior is controlling and manipulative. I think Adam being off the show was a good idea for them, because if I saw him every week having mama's-boy excuses made for him by Mama and Papa Bear while he confused to be a heartless deadbeat, I'd forget all about how annoying Chelsea can be and just focus all my hatred on him. They know that the less audiences see him, the better.

Christina · March 29, 2019

4 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

I KNEW Chelsea lied about not introducing Cole to Aubree for months! Why does no one call her out on those lies? And Randy's.

I wonder if she deleted the evidence because I just searched and don't see those posts. Randy tweeted something about Chelsea not introducing Cole for months and people responded with all of her posts showing that wasn't true. In fact, Cole was practically living with her before six months was up. He had a roommate and continued paying his portion of the rent, but when the lease was up, he and Chelsea "officially" moved in together. He spent more time at her house than his apartment, if he spent any time there at all.

Chelsea doesn't have the hatters of Jenelle and Kail, but people jumped on those lies immediately -- probably Jenelle and/or Kail. Her presenting the relationship as a perfect one with trying to protect Cole just pissed people off. I can see her wanting to ease him into the TM grinder and wanting to allow him to experience things like the ultrasound to determine the sex of Watson without cameras, it was her bitching to her dad and friends about Adam and saying how she didn't discuss it with Cole because she didn't want to make it his problem, when everyone knows she did, that just grated on my nerves and apparently enough others to make them go search through her SM posts.

Adiba · March 29, 2019

10 hours ago, Lm2162 said:

I've never been a big Chelsea fan-- she always seemed like a pinnacle of mediocrity to me, pretty lazy, and wayyyyy too obsessed with guys-- so I'm not surprised at how immature she came off in parts of this episode. Still, what Donna is doing would piss me off royally. She is making excuse after excuse for her son and her behavior is controlling and manipulative. I think Adam being off the show was a good idea for them, because if I saw him every week having mama's-boy excuses made for him by Mama and Papa Bear while he confused to be a heartless deadbeat, I'd forget all about how annoying Chelsea can be and just focus all my hatred on him. They know that the less audiences see him, the better.

Yep, I agree, you don't have to be a Chelsea fan to be angry with Donna's behavior regarding Adam and visitation.

I don't even watch the show regularly, and never even pay much attention to Chelsea's segments. I do come here and from what I read, Donna is playing a game of cat-and-mouse with the visitation rules.

As far as Chelsea being immature--yes. How old is she now? Grandma Donna telling Chelsea to grow up may have been valid--but Donna perhaps should be thankful that Chelsea is (and has been) immature. A mature person would have no problem standing up to Adam and the Linds.

Birdee · March 29, 2019

On 3/27/2019 at 9:25 AM, vmcd88 said:

Her hair looks like sh*t. Who are these people buying her products? B

Probably not any of her fans. I looked up the 3-piece set she sent to the other girls and it's originally $92.50 (now on sale for $80. Hurry up, supplies won't last!)

I have no problem paying money for quality products (which I doubt this is), but there's no way her dead-end job having/multiple-baby-daddy juggling/poor decision making fans are going to be able to afford that.

On 3/27/2019 at 10:08 AM, MaggieG said:

Did Kail actually bail Jenelle out of jail? And did she actually drive to New Jersey and pick up Jenelle when she was strung out?

Yup. At least to the first part. I vaguely remember it and TheAshley says it was around 2011 or 2012.

On 3/27/2019 at 11:31 AM, Christina87 said:

But...if you were the Linds, and adam showed up, what would you have done? What is the correct reaction here? I understand why their actions in the past were wrong, but I really think they tried to do the right thing here. What can they possibly do when adam shows up except remove Aubree, which they did?

When I was kid, my grandmother went completely crazy and threatened my parents and threatened to take me. They went to court and got a restraining order. She showed up at the house once after that. My dad (her son-in-law, not son) met her before she could get out of the car and told her she had 10 seconds to get off our property or he'd call the cops. That's what they should have done. And as a side note, I knew I wasn't allowed to see her and that she was "unhealthy," but I never knew the specifics until I was much, much older because the adults around me didn't feel the need to tell me every sordid detail of their adult business. DeBoers, Linds and Houskas please think about that.

On 3/27/2019 at 6:01 PM, politichick said:

I agree, too. They probably called Chelsea to arrange for a pickup because it allowed for some time for Aubree and Adam to spend together. Didn't she say they played some pool together before Cole arrived?

And as a parent that's where I would have lost my shit. If he insisted on coming in the house and none of the other adults could be bothered to stop him, they should have taken Aubree to another part of the house until she was picked up or he left. I wouldn't be surprised if they told her to go play pool with her dad while they waited on Cole.

Kroliosis · March 29, 2019

23 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

double post

Edited March 29, 2019 by Kroliosis
nm

BitterApple · March 29, 2019

1 hour ago, Birdee said:

And as a parent that's where I would have lost my shit. If he insisted on coming in the house and none of the other adults could be bothered to stop him, they should have taken Aubree to another part of the house until she was picked up or he left. I wouldn't be surprised if they told her to go play pool with her dad while they waited on Cole.

That seems a bit Draconian. I think Chelsea did the right thing by picking Aubree up and calling her lawyer about the violation, but I don't think Adam is so volatile that Aubree would have to be whisked away and kept in a different room for the thirty minutes it took Cole to get there.

Edited March 29, 2019 by BitterApple

guilfoyleatpp · March 29, 2019

On 3/28/2019 at 8:33 AM, woodscommaelle said:

Um, Ali's eye doctor needs to chill. "If she loses her one good eye, it's going to be a disaster!"

Dude, not in front of Ali. That pissed me off. I get having a child know what's doing with their health, but to call it a 'disaster' is intense and scary...to anyone of any age.

I thought the same. And then I thought maybe that's just because I am a ball of anxiety that I'm always worried about passing on to my kid.

Thank you for validating. 🙂

blubld43 · March 29, 2019

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

That seems a bit Draconian. I think Chelsea did the right thing by picking Aubree up and calling her lawyer about the violation, but I don't think Adam is so volatile that Aubree would have to be whisked away and kept in a different room for the thirty minutes it took Cole to get there.

But that would have shown intent to comply with the court order, which would certainly work in their favor. Instead they've again shown disregard for it, which will definitely not sit well with a judge. As it shouldn't!

Edited March 29, 2019 by blubld43

Birdee · March 29, 2019

2 hours ago, BitterApple said:

That seems a bit Draconian. I think Chelsea did the right thing by picking Aubree up and calling her lawyer about the violation, but I don't think Adam is so volatile that Aubree would have to be whisked away and kept in a different room for the thirty minutes it took Cole to get there.

Maybe so. I just think it would have been easier that once they realized Adam wasn't leaving, they let him hang out on the patio (or whatever) and had Aubree go inside to have a snack or watch TV until Cole showed up. Nothing big or dramatic, just redirecting. That way they could tell C&C, the judge, their lawyers, whomever, that they kept them apart and remedied the situation ASAP. And maybe (but probably not) it could have shown Adam that there are repercussions for his actions. I don't disagree that a few minutes of contact isn't harmful, but following the court's orders as closely as possible will help the Linds and Aubree maintain a relationship.

Christina · March 30, 2019

17 hours ago, Christina said:

I wonder if she deleted the evidence because I just searched and don't see those posts. Randy tweeted something about Chelsea not introducing Cole for months and people responded with all of her posts showing that wasn't true.

Quoting myself for context. As I was trying to fall asleep, I had another thought. Those posts may have been on Cole's sister's SM. IIRC, she had posted something like, "My brother met the luv of his life at the gas station on Tuesday, had their first date on Friday, and brought her and her daughter to our parents BBQ today!!!" with today being Saturday or Sunday and @ing Chelsea. Her followers then increased substantially and she started selling the flatbelly tea, etc.

BitterApple · March 30, 2019

16 minutes ago, Christina said:

Quoting myself for context. As I was trying to fall asleep, I had another thought. Those posts may have been on Cole's sister's SM. IIRC, she had posted something like, "My brother met the luv of his life at the gas station on Tuesday, had their first date on Friday, and brought her and her daughter to our parents BBQ today!!!" with today being Saturday or Sunday and @ing Chelsea. Her followers then increased substantially and she started selling the flatbelly tea, etc.

All I have to say is I hope Chelsea has an airtight pre-nup. Coley's lifestyle certainly upgraded significantly once he hitched his wagon to her brand. Reading that Cole was in just as much of a rush to play happy family as Chelsea makes me a bit suspect of his intentions. And his family has capitalized off her social media following? Hmmm....

TheRealT · March 30, 2019

6 hours ago, Birdee said:

Maybe so. I just think it would have been easier that once they realized Adam wasn't leaving, they let him hang out on the patio (or whatever) and had Aubree go inside to have a snack or watch TV until Cole showed up. Nothing big or dramatic, just redirecting. That way they could tell C&C, the judge, their lawyers, whomever, that they kept them apart and remedied the situation ASAP. And maybe (but probably not) it could have shown Adam that there are repercussions for his actions. I don't disagree that a few minutes of contact isn't harmful, but following the court's orders as closely as possible will help the Linds and Aubree maintain a relationship.

I think the problem is that the Linds are happy when Adam shows up for a family gathering, especially if Aubree is there. It breaks their hearts that Adam and Aubree aren't allowed to be at family gatherings together and they don't see the harm in it. I would also guess that they're just happy when Adam shows up in general because they know/assume that when he doesn't show up, it's because he's high or otherwise somehow negatively engaged. I think the first time he showed up when Aubree was there (last Easter?) they didn't do anything, hoping that somehow Chelsea wouldn't find out or would be ok with it or whatever. Adam, being the immature dick that he is, posted pics of him with Aubree on SM and Chelsea flipped out. Donna realized that the ploy had backfired and went to see Chelsea to apologize (scaring her to death because Cole was on the toilet and she almost had to talk to Donna by herself (the horror!)).

Then, almost a year later, Adam showed up while Aubree was there and Donna tried to fudge the situation by texting Chelsea, hoping Chelsea would text back, "OK, I guess as long as you PROMISE me that you won't let him drive her anywhere and you'll watch them the whole time, it's ok." Instead, Chelsea sent Cole to pick Aubree up and more or less refused to discuss the situation beyond that, then kept Aubree from visiting the Linds for at least some time. Donna is afraid to demand that Chelsea talk to her or be more aggressive in demanding her "rights" to Aubree because she knows that she could lose all access to Aubree, especially if Adam continues to be too lame to fully pursue his legal rights as her father.

I feel like Chelsea gets all of that 100%, but chooses to be too chickenshit/passive-aggressive to acknowledge that it's clear that Donna wants to be able to have Adam over while Aubree is visiting and either 1) tell her that's not going to fly with Chelsea and Donna needs to ensure that Adam and Aubree are NEVER in each other's company while Aubree's with her, or 2) discuss/negotiate with her specific circumstances under which Chelsea might be ok with it. Instead, Chelsea ignores the elephant in the room because she doesn't want to deal with the awkwardness and/or own her real intentions.

IMO, Donna has the "excuse" of being in a precarious position with regard to her access to Aubree and not knowing how to deal with Chelsea, who (probably, from Donna's perspective) suddenly more or less cut off communication with her (though she thought they had a good/decent relationship before that) around the time that her new husband showed up and is now laying it on thick with Aubree that she wants her husband to adopt her. I imagine that it's devastating for Donna/the Linds to feel these weird vibes, have Cole (a stranger to them) suddenly become their contact person regarding Aubree, then hear this stuff about Chelsea wanting Cole to adopt Aubree, all without Chelsea ever having the decency or guts to just talk to them about any of it. They probably learn about some of this stuff on the show/on SM/from random people who have read stuff about it online. And they've never really done anything to Chelsea. She can't say they cussed her out or threatened her or mistreated Aubree. She just stopped talking to them because Coleeeee showed up and he enjoyed playing "white knight" for her and she's cowardly/immature/seeking to be "protected," so painting them as villains worked for her.

Christina87 · March 30, 2019

6 minutes ago, TheRealT said:

I think the problem is that the Linds are happy when Adam shows up for a family gathering, especially if Aubree is there. It breaks their hearts that Adam and Aubree aren't allowed to be at family gatherings together and they don't see the harm in it. I would also guess that they're just happy when Adam shows up in general because they know/assume that when he doesn't show up, it's because he's high or otherwise somehow negatively engaged. I think the first time he showed up when Aubree was there (last Easter?) they didn't do anything, hoping that somehow Chelsea wouldn't find out or would be ok with it or whatever. Adam, being the immature dick that he is, posted pics of him with Aubree on SM and Chelsea flipped out. Donna realized that the ploy had backfired and went to see Chelsea to apologize (scaring her to death because Cole was on the toilet and she almost had to talk to Donna by herself (the horror!)).

Then, almost a year later, Adam showed up while Aubree was there and Donna tried to fudge the situation by texting Chelsea, hoping Chelsea would text back, "OK, I guess as long as you PROMISE me that you won't let him drive her anywhere and you'll watch them the whole time, it's ok." Instead, Chelsea sent Cole to pick Aubree up and more or less refused to discuss the situation beyond that, then kept Aubree from visiting the Linds for at least some time. Donna is afraid to demand that Chelsea talk to her or be more aggressive in demanding her "rights" to Aubree because she knows that she could lose all access to Aubree, especially if Adam continues to be too lame to fully pursue his legal rights as her father.

I feel like Chelsea gets all of that 100%, but chooses to be too chickenshit/passive-aggressive to acknowledge that it's clear that Donna wants to be able to have Adam over while Aubree is visiting and either 1) tell her that's not going to fly with Chelsea and Donna needs to ensure that Adam and Aubree are NEVER in each other's company while Aubree's with her, or 2) discuss/negotiate with her specific circumstances under which Chelsea might be ok with it. Instead, Chelsea ignores the elephant in the room because she doesn't want to deal with the awkwardness and/or own her real intentions.

IMO, Donna has the "excuse" of being in a precarious position with regard to her access to Aubree and not knowing how to deal with Chelsea, who (probably, from Donna's perspective) suddenly more or less cut off communication with her (though she thought they had a good/decent relationship before that) around the time that her new husband showed up and is now laying it on thick with Aubree that she wants her husband to adopt her. I imagine that it's devastating for Donna/the Linds to feel these weird vibes, have Cole (a stranger to them) suddenly become their contact person regarding Aubree, then hear this stuff about Chelsea wanting Cole to adopt Aubree, all without Chelsea ever having the decency or guts to just talk to them about any of it. They probably learn about some of this stuff on the show/on SM/from random people who have read stuff about it online. And they've never really done anything to Chelsea. She can't say they cussed her out or threatened her or mistreated Aubree. She just stopped talking to them because Coleeeee showed up and he enjoyed playing "white knight" for her and she's cowardly/immature/seeking to be "protected," so painting them as villains worked for her.

THIS TIMES A THOUSAND PERCENT!!!! ^^^^^^ every word of this is how I've always felt, and I've always gotten a lot of flack for it!

Scarlett45 · March 30, 2019

14 hours ago, TheRealT said:

feel like Chelsea gets all of that 100%, but chooses to be too chickenshit/passive-aggressive to acknowledge that it's clear that Donna wants to be able to have Adam over while Aubree is visiting and either 1) tell her that's not going to fly with Chelsea and Donna needs to ensure that Adam and Aubree are NEVER in each other's company while Aubree's with her, or 2) discuss/negotiate with her specific circumstances under which Chelsea might be ok with it. Instead, Chelsea ignores the elephant in the room because she doesn't want to deal with the awkwardness and/or own her real intentions.

From my perspective the court order 100% does this. Chelsea isn’t being chicken shit because she got a court order. Chelsea’s intentions are plain as day.

I think Donna is putting her head in the sand about her dangerous, addict son and wants to pretend the court order is like a parking ticket. It’s not.

I think Chelsea has been more than upfront with the Linds and they have wanted to play the victim “oh we didn’t understand the court order”- they understood they just didn’t care to follow it. That’s their fault not Chelsea’s.

jacksgirl · March 30, 2019

So happy that Barb gets free vacations and dinners. She deserves it. Also, not sure if she has gotten therapy or read some great books or what but she sure is showing a lot of positive insight about her relationship with Jenelle and Jennelle's relationship with David. Her recognizing that Jenelle always needs a man around seems very true.

Oh, and Jenelle, Chelsea called and wants her knit hat back.

TheRealT · March 30, 2019

3 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

From my perspective the court order 100% does this. Chelsea isn’t being chicken shit because she got a court order. Chelsea’s intentions are plain as day.

I think Donna is putting her head in the sand about her dangerous, addict son and wants to pretend the court order is like a parking ticket. It’s not.

I think Chelsea has been more than upfront with the Linds and they have wanted to play the victim “oh we didn’t understand the court order”- they understood they just didn’t care to follow it. That’s their fault not Chelsea’s.

I know that Donna understands the intent of the court order. That's why I didn't say, "I think Donna is genuinely confused about what the court order requires..." Of course, Chelsea is technically right in that the Linds have purposely violated the court order/allowed the court order to be violated. They are definitely technically wrong.

My point is that I think it would be decent of Chelsea (and ultimately better for Aubree) if she womaned up and actually talked to Donna/the Linds about the situation. IMO, it's somewhat cowardly to go through the courts and cut off communication with these people who have been nice to her and who are her daughter's family. She understands (or should) that they are in pain about the whole situation (at least in part because of how she's treated them/how she talks about them to Aubree and on TV).

If it were up to me, I would at least consider allowing Adam and Aubree to attend family functions at the same time for a lot of reasons, 95% of which are about doing what's best for Aubree. Obviously, it's not up to me, so Chelsea can and should do what she thinks is best, but I think she should at least hear the Linds out, tell them how she feels and why, and be direct and explicit in telling them what her expectations are moving forward. It would be nice if she also threw in some validation that they are good people/grandparents, that she gets that the situation is hard for them, and that she appreciates all they do and have done for Aubree. Of course, she doesn't have to do any of that. She can just get a court order, stop talking to them and get Cole to deal with them directly, and let them figure out where she's coming from through her actions and what they can glean from Aubree, SM, and TV. I just don't agree with that approach.

Scarlett45 · March 30, 2019

21 minutes ago, TheRealT said:

IMO, it's somewhat cowardly to go through the courts and cut off communication with these people who have been nice to her and who are her daughter's family. She understands (or should) that they are in pain about the whole situation (at least in part because of how she's treated them/how she talks about them to Aubree and on TV).

I see what you’re saying now thank you for expanding further.

I think sticking to the letter of the court order and not engaging with Grandma Donna over this is one of the more mature things Chelsea has done. I don’t see it as cowardly I see it as a good use of her emotional resources and a proper use of family court. It’s there to protect the Linds relationship with Aubree AND Aubree from the instability that is Adam. Chelsea is abiding by the court order as she wants the Linds to do.

There have been years of her talking, Adam being allowed to violate rules and boundaires, and allowing Adam to be with Aubree unsupervised when it was clear Chelsea didn’t want that and the courts agreed she was right. The time for “talking” about how she feels about Adam has passed.

I am still stuck on the fact that Adam broke Stacia’s arm under his parents roof it’s obvious he’s got not an OUNCE of respect for them (or anyone else) and they haven’t set any boundaries with him. Engaging with them about Adam would be like talking to a tree at this point. I understand Chelsea 100%.

I did want to add, heaven forbid something happened to Aubree when she was with Adam (even something like a broken wrist), Chelsea as the mother would be vilified for allowing Aubree to spend time with him and going against the court order, “well why did she let her go if she thought he was dangerous” blah blah blah. I think Chelsea is handling the Linds in the best way. The adoption stuff not so much, but with this I understand her completly.

Christina87 · March 30, 2019

38 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I see what you’re saying now thank you for expanding further.

I think sticking to the letter of the court order and not engaging with Grandma Donna over this is one of the more mature things Chelsea has done. I don’t see it as cowardly I see it as a good use of her emotional resources and a proper use of family court. It’s there to protect the Linds relationship with Aubree AND Aubree from the instability that is Adam. Chelsea is abiding by the court order as she wants the Linds to do.

There have been years of her talking, Adam being allowed to violate rules and boundaires, and allowing Adam to be with Aubree unsupervised when it was clear Chelsea didn’t want that and the courts agreed she was right. The time for “talking” about how she feels about Adam has passed.

I am still stuck on the fact that Adam broke Stacia’s arm under his parents roof it’s obvious he’s got not an OUNCE of respect for them (or anyone else) and they haven’t set any boundaries with him. Engaging with them about Adam would be like talking to a tree at this point. I understand Chelsea 100%.

I did want to add, heaven forbid something happened to Aubree when she was with Adam (even something like a broken wrist), Chelsea as the mother would be vilified for allowing Aubree to spend time with him and going against the court order, “well why did she let her go if she thought he was dangerous” blah blah blah. I think Chelsea is handling the Linds in the best way. The adoption stuff not so much, but with this I understand her completly.

I wish there could be a good middle ground, though. Even if Chelsea is only communicating directly with Donna to tell her, "this is why I feel adam is a danger to Aubree, and I'm not changing my mind," I wish she could just talk to her. As a couple of posters have said, Donna appeared to have a good relationship with Chelsea until Cole came on the scene, and then boom, it's just talking through coley and the court, as well as insinuating on tv that they are the enemy. Even if Chelsea doesn't intend to give an inch, the way she's handling it is cowardly IMO.

From where I stand, it seems symptomatic of the larger problem that Chelsea has never had to conduct herself in a difficult situation. Randy may give her advice that she doesn't like, but he always backs down eventually. Mary flips her hair and asks for gossip, and also walks on eggshells around Chelsea. She's never had to deal with, say, a boss who hated her like I did, where she constantly had difficult conversations, and had to defend herself and explain her reasoning. I doubt she's ever had to do as much as question why she got a bad grade, because Randy probably took care of all that. We know Randy handled all the stuff with the school when Chelsea had Aubree. She's also never had to navigate school programs for herself, like Leah has with IEP's. I doubt her parents taught her to advocate for herself, and it shows.

But still, that's no reason to cower from donna. Regardless of which party is right or wrong, I don't like her hiding and losing her shit because coley's on the toilet and donna (who has called and texted her with no response) is at the door. Would she have acted like that pre-coley, when she hoped donna would be her mother in law? Hell no! I bet donna felt so frustrated too, having to resort to showing up at Chelsea's house in order to be heard. Even though donna has made some mistakes, Chelsea is exacerbating an already tough situation by being such a pansy. Cole didn't choose to have a child in high school with a loser, so Chelsea needs to step up and handle her own business. Of course, I would feel differently if donna was a cage fighter with criminal behavior, from whom Chelsea needed physical protection, but she's not, and Chelsea needs to sit down with her and be an adult about this.

Edited March 30, 2019 by Christina87

jacksgirl · March 30, 2019

As a new grandparent, the thought of not being able to see my grandchild due to my screw-up child's behaviors and actions would be devastating.The Linds love Aubree and have been a constant in her life her entire life.

I just really hope that there is some way that Aubree can continue to see her grandparents but the onus is on them to keep Adam away if this is court-ordered.

For Aubree's sake I hope that they can come to some kind of agreement so she can continue her relationship with her grandparents.

BitterApple · March 30, 2019

I agree with all the above comments. Even with opposing viewpoints there's a lot of valid observations.

What I'm finding a bit disturbing is how Cole's feelings have become the centerpiece of all decisions concerning Aubree, and not Aubree herself. It's soooo hard on Cole. He can't adopt her. Wouldn't it be awesome, Aubs, if you took Cole's last name. Oh, no, what if I get hit by a bus, Cole may not get Aubree. Adam fucked up? We have to call Cole at work, he would never do something like that. It's like the entire freaking household revolves around worshipping the awesomeness of Cole. It's annoying and I wish Chelsea would give herself more credit. Quite frankly, I liked her better before he came along.

Edited March 30, 2019 by BitterApple

TheRealT · March 30, 2019

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

I think sticking to the letter of the court order and not engaging with Grandma Donna over this is one of the more mature things Chelsea has done. I don’t see it as cowardly I see it as a good use of her emotional resources and a proper use of family court. It’s there to protect the Linds relationship with Aubree AND Aubree from the instability that is Adam. Chelsea is abiding by the court order as she wants the Linds to do.

There have been years of her talking, Adam being allowed to violate rules and boundaires, and allowing Adam to be with Aubree unsupervised when it was clear Chelsea didn’t want that and the courts agreed she was right. The time for “talking” about how she feels about Adam has passed.

Have there really been years of Chelsea "talking" to the Linds about her concerns around allowing Adam access to Aubree? I'm genuinely asking. As I understand it, years ago (I'm guessing 3-4, but I don't know) the Linds let Adam drive Aubree while she was visiting with them. Chelsea was understandably upset since Adam had multiple DUI's (and maybe didn't have a license?). As I vaguely recall, Chelsea either handled that situation by just talking to the Linds/asking them not to let it happen again or went to court to get an explicit order that Adam wasn't allowed to drive with Aubree. In the ensuing few years, Adam continued to rack up criminal offenses (DUI's and drugs, then, relatively recently, a domestic violence charge), but (as far as I understand) he was still allowed to be around Aubree under the Linds' supervision. Then, at some point, (maybe prior to the DV charge?), Chelsea had the visitation order amended to disallow Adam visiting with Aubree at the Linds and requiring him to go to the visiting center or her school and to reduce the Linds' weekend visits to once a month rather than twice. After that, the Linds violated the order twice- once last Easter(?) when they allowed Adam to visit while Aubree was there and Adam immediately posted photos on SM, and once more recently when Donna immediately texted Chelsea, but allowed Adam to hang out with Aubree until Cole arrived to take her home.

So my comments are based on understanding that as the course of events. I don't think Chelsea has been trying to explain her concerns to the Linds for years (I think she mostly said nothing or expressed mild objections without outlining what she specifically wanted them to do.). Based on Chelsea's own descriptions of events, it seems like she has mostly avoided confronting the Linds about her concerns about Aubree's safety when she's with them (if such concerns are even real). I can understand how, from the Linds' perspective, it seemed like what changed was that Chelsea got a new man with whom she wanted to replace Adam (and his family by extension). That perspective might be totally wrong, but I think it would have been very helpful if Chelsea talked to them to dispel that and whatever other inaccurate/hurtful conclusions they might be drawing in the absence of her full communication with them.

49 minutes ago, Christina87 said:

I wish there could be a good middle ground, though. Even if Chelsea is only communicating directly with Donna to tell her, "this is why I feel adam is a danger to Aubree, and I'm not changing my mind," I wish she could just talk to her. As a couple of posters have said, Donna appeared to have a good relationship with Chelsea until Cole came on the scene, and then boom, it's just talking through coley and the court, as well as insinuating on tv that they are the enemy. Even if Chelsea doesn't intend to give an inch, the way she's handling it is cowardly IMO.

From where I stand, it seems symptomatic of the larger problem that Chelsea has never had to conduct herself in a difficult situation. Randy may give her advice that she doesn't like, but he always backs down eventually. Mary flips her hair and asks for gossip, and also walks on eggshells around Chelsea. She's never had to deal with, say, a boss who hated her like I did, where she constantly had difficult conversations, and had to defend herself and explain her reasoning. I doubt she's ever had to do as much as question why she got a bad grade, because Randy probably took care of all that. We know Randy handled all the stuff with the school when Chelsea had Aubree. She's also never had to navigate school programs for herself, like Leah has with IEP's. I doubt her parents taught her to advocate for herself, and it shows.

But still, that's no reason to cower from donna. Regardless of which party is right or wrong, I don't like her hiding and losing her shit because coley's on the toilet and donna (who has called and texted her with no response) is at the door. Would she have acted like that pre-coley, when she hoped donna would be her mother in law? Hell no! I bet donna felt so frustrated too, having to resort to showing up at Chelsea's house in order to be heard. Even though donna has made some mistakes, Chelsea is exacerbating an already tough situation by being such a pansy. Cole didn't choose to have a child in high school with a loser, so Chelsea needs to step up and handle her own business. Of course, I would feel differently if donna was a cage fighter with criminal behavior, from whom Chelsea needed physical protection, but she's not, and Chelsea needs to sit down with her and be an adult about this.

Exactly. To me, the situation is analogous to a breakup in which one party chooses to just stop communication with the other. If you've been in a relationship with someone for years (and even share a child), you CAN just wake up one morning and decide that you don't want to be with them anymore and get a restraining order and have your lawyer send them divorce/custody arrangement papers, but that's a shitty thing to do. Especially if your course of actions isn't because they abused you or something, it's just because a better deal came along and you decided that you're done with them. If the ex in question were your child's step-parent you could just have a letter sent to them explaining that they'll have visitation one weekend a month and they're not allowed to have their mother (who is screwed up, but whom your child sees as a grandma) there, but I don't think that's right either. You could then use them allowing their mom to attend a holiday party where your child was present to further restrict their contact with your child, but I don't think that would necessarily in the child's best interests.

12 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I agree with all the above comment. Even with opposing viewpoints everyone has a lot of valid observations.

What I'm finding a bit disturbing is how Cole's feelings have become the centerpiece of all decisions concerning Aubree, and not Aubree herself. It's soooo hard on Cole. He can't adopt her. Wouldn't it be awesome, Aubs, if you took Cole's last name. Oh, no, what if I get hit by a bus, Cole may not get Aubree. Adam fucked up? We have to call Cole at work, he would never do something like that. It's like the entire freaking household revolves around worshipping the awesomeness of Cole. I wish Chelsea would give herself some credit. It's not like she was in the gutter before this guy came along.

Yeah, that too. I'd be more sympathetic to Chelsea if I believed that she truly thinks Aubree is in mortal danger being around Adam anywhere outside the visiting center, but I don't.

Christina87 · March 30, 2019

53 minutes ago, TheRealT said:

Have there really been years of Chelsea "talking" to the Linds about her concerns around allowing Adam access to Aubree? I'm genuinely asking. As I understand it, years ago (I'm guessing 3-4, but I don't know) the Linds let Adam drive Aubree while she was visiting with them. Chelsea was understandably upset since Adam had multiple DUI's (and maybe didn't have a license?). As I vaguely recall, Chelsea either handled that situation by just talking to the Linds/asking them not to let it happen again or went to court to get an explicit order that Adam wasn't allowed to drive with Aubree. In the ensuing few years, Adam continued to rack up criminal offenses (DUI's and drugs, then, relatively recently, a domestic violence charge), but (as far as I understand) he was still allowed to be around Aubree under the Linds' supervision. Then, at some point, (maybe prior to the DV charge?), Chelsea had the visitation order amended to disallow Adam visiting with Aubree at the Linds and requiring him to go to the visiting center or her school and to reduce the Linds' weekend visits to once a month rather than twice. After that, the Linds violated the order twice- once last Easter(?) when they allowed Adam to visit while Aubree was there and Adam immediately posted photos on SM, and once more recently when Donna immediately texted Chelsea, but allowed Adam to hang out with Aubree until Cole arrived to take her home.

So my comments are based on understanding that as the course of events. I don't think Chelsea has been trying to explain her concerns to the Linds for years (I think she mostly said nothing or expressed mild objections without outlining what she specifically wanted them to do.). Based on Chelsea's own descriptions of events, it seems like she has mostly avoided confronting the Linds about her concerns about Aubree's safety when she's with them (if such concerns are even real). I can understand how, from the Linds' perspective, it seemed like what changed was that Chelsea got a new man with whom she wanted to replace Adam (and his family by extension). That perspective might be totally wrong, but I think it would have been very helpful if Chelsea talked to them to dispel that and whatever other inaccurate/hurtful conclusions they might be drawing in the absence of her full communication with them.

Exactly. To me, the situation is analogous to a breakup in which one party chooses to just stop communication with the other. If you've been in a relationship with someone for years (and even share a child), you CAN just wake up one morning and decide that you don't want to be with them anymore and get a restraining order and have your lawyer send them divorce/custody arrangement papers, but that's a shitty thing to do. Especially if your course of actions isn't because they abused you or something, it's just because a better deal came along and you decided that you're done with them. If the ex in question were your child's step-parent you could just have a letter sent to them explaining that they'll have visitation one weekend a month and they're not allowed to have their mother (who is screwed up, but whom your child sees as a grandma) there, but I don't think that's right either. You could then use them allowing their mom to attend a holiday party where your child was present to further restrict their contact with your child, but I don't think that would necessarily in the child's best interests.

Yeah, that too. I'd be more sympathetic to Chelsea if I believed that she truly thinks Aubree is in mortal danger being around Adam anywhere outside the visiting center, but I don't.

Yes!!! I love the breakup analogy. Sometimes the course of action someone takes is out of proportion to the crime, and the breakup analogy highlights that. It's like how I always equate ghosting to being on a perfectly pleasant date with someone, and having decent conversation with no sign the guy is a creeper, or even weird, and then suddenly jumping up mid-conversation with no explanation, running to the bathroom, and frantically calling a friend to come rescue you before sneaking out the back door. How would that leave the other person feeling? Uncomfortable, confused, wondering if they came off creepy or even dangerous, because why would anyone act like that otherwise? Then they find out that true ghoster just reminded them too much of their sister's ex, and they found it awkward to explain, or even just say they weren't a match, so they way overreacted. That's how I see Chelsea, too. Cole shows up, and suddenly Chelsea avoids Donna's texts, sends Cole to do drop offs, hides in the bathroom when she comes to the door, only speaks to her through the court system, and whines on tv when Donna told her to grow up, like it was the worst insult ever. I would be pretty confused in that situation too, and I'd also question why Chelsea is willing to potentially hurt my granddaughter, and cut off my access to her, to make her husband of five minutes feel better.

Scarlett45 · March 30, 2019

1 hour ago, TheRealT said:

Have there really been years of Chelsea "talking" to the Linds about her concerns around allowing Adam access to Aubree? I'm genuinely asking.

This is the brief outline if I recall correctly @TheRealT:

- Aubree’s a baby/young toddler and Grandma Donna is actually the one taking Adam’s visitation time, people are getting along well (yes mostly because Chelsea still wants Adam’s adoration and attention, maybe his penis but I don’t think it’s that good😂)

- Adam starts getting arrested/DUIs

-Chelsea wants to know the Linds are really the ones caring for Aubree during the weekends because she doesn’t trust Adam

- adam arrested for drugs

- Chelsea learns he’s driven Aubree without a license and maybe under the influence, Chelsea goes got court to ensure Adam has supervised visits- the Linds are now officially supposed to supervise the visits with Adam. Since Adam is living in their house it all seems reasonable

- Cole enters the picture

- Adam has unsupervised visitation with Aubree, Chelsea flips her shit

- Watson is born, Chelsea is busy with the new born and gives the Linds another chance to supervise the weekend visits

- Adam breaks Stacia’s (his live in girlfriend’s) arm- they were living with the Linds, is arrested for DV, Stacia gets a restraining order

- adam has unsupervised visitation with Aubree AGAIN- after the DV against stacia Chelsea isn’t playing any more and the judge agrees the Linds cannot be trusted to supervise visits with him (given his criminal history and their past actions); it’s ordered Aubree can only see him at the visitation center or at her school

This is why I think Chelsea has talked to the Linds. There is a pattern of behavior, Adam fucking up, the Linds acting like it didn’t happen, and Chelsea having the family courts agree her.

In my mind if the Linds were open to “listening” to Chelsea and her concerns Aubree would’ve never ended up in a car with Adam 4-5years ago. They KNEW he was a user, and had DUIs, but they let him put Aubree in the car? (And I say “let” because even though he was a grown man he lived under their roof, their house their rules).

Hope my time line helped.

blubld43 · March 31, 2019

21 hours ago, TheRealT said:

I think the problem is that the Linds are happy when Adam shows up for a family gathering, especially if Aubree is there. It breaks their hearts that Adam and Aubree aren't allowed to be at family gatherings together and they don't see the harm in it. I would also guess that they're just happy when Adam shows up in general because they know/assume that when he doesn't show up, it's because he's high or otherwise somehow negatively engaged. I think the first time he showed up when Aubree was there (last Easter?) they didn't do anything, hoping that somehow Chelsea wouldn't find out or would be ok with it or whatever. Adam, being the immature dick that he is, posted pics of him with Aubree on SM and Chelsea flipped out. Donna realized that the ploy had backfired and went to see Chelsea to apologize (scaring her to death because Cole was on the toilet and she almost had to talk to Donna by herself!)

Okay, I have laughed at this reference to Cole on the toilet numerous times, thinking it was a joke. Did that really happen, she got him off the toilet? And she did this on television? I bet he heard some whip snapping sounds at work after that!

Farmfam · March 31, 2019

I also enjoy the comments here, while disagreeing, each have valid points on both sides.

My opinion? Chelsea could talk until she is blue in the face, but it’s not until the Linds actually own who their son has become that they will truly listen. It’s best she goes through the courts. If they valued their time with Aubree, they would speak to their adult son and explain that right now he can’t be around. Encourage him to attend the visitation center and/ or enter rehab, and slowly his parental right can be discussed.

Scarlett45 · March 31, 2019

2 hours ago, blubld43 said:

Okay, I have laughed at this reference to Cole on the toilet numerous times, thinking it was a joke. Did that really happen, she got him off the toilet? And she did this on television? I bet he heard some whip snapping sounds at work after that!

There was no reason to get Cole off the toilet. If Chelsea didn’t want to open the door for Donna (I don’t open my door if I’m not expecting someone), she should’ve just walked away. She was under no obligation to deal with Donna coming to her home unannounced and uninvited and neither was Cole! Who was on the toilet!

hoosiermom · March 31, 2019

I don’t ever remember Chelsea being discussed this much in the forums (in one episode) since the show began!

SarahC · March 31, 2019

The whole situation with Aubree is just so messy and unfortunate. While i completely understand the reasons for the court order and why visitation is how it is, i wish there was better communication and support for Aubree to maintain a relationship with her fathers side. Instead of saying, "you can't see them!" Chelsea should try to talk to them and figure out how to make it work. I know they have done things wrong, as well. And it's not something that is just solved overnight, but everyone watching can see how hard it is for Aubree. It breaks my heart.

My daughter's father was nowhere near the loser that Adam is, but he was not the greatest father either. After we split, even when he was in and out, i would refrain from saying negative things in front of her. I made sure she was involved with his family and even took her myself to their family functions when he would bail. Well, 2 years ago, he was murdered. He had started dating a new girl with a psycho ex who went to his house and shot him and the girl. When i got that phone call, every conversation i had with my friends about it being easier if he was gone came flooding in. The guilt was unimaginable. I cant fathom how much worse it would have been if i had let my daughter know i had those feelings.

I am sure to her it seems easier if Adam would disappear, but i wish someone around her would be able to get through to her to stop being so selfish. Aubree loves her dad and his family.

geauxaway · March 31, 2019

4 minutes ago, SarahC said:

The whole situation with Aubree is just so messy and unfortunate. While i completely understand the reasons for the court order and why visitation is how it is, i wish there was better communication and support for Aubree to maintain a relationship with her fathers side. Instead of saying, "you can't see them!" Chelsea should try to talk to them and figure out how to make it work. I know they have done things wrong, as well. And it's not something that is just solved overnight, but everyone watching can see how hard it is for Aubree. It breaks my heart.

My daughter's father was nowhere near the loser that Adam is, but he was not the greatest father either. After we split, even when he was in and out, i would refrain from saying negative things in front of her. I made sure she was involved with his family and even took her myself to their family functions when he would bail. Well, 2 years ago, he was murdered. He had started dating a new girl with a psycho ex who went to his house and shot him and the girl. When i got that phone call, every conversation i had with my friends about it being easier if he was gone came flooding in. The guilt was unimaginable. I cant fathom how much worse it would have been if i had let my daughter know i had those feelings.

I am sure to her it seems easier if Adam would disappear, but i wish someone around her would be able to get through to her to stop being so selfish. Aubree loves her dad and his family.

Yep! But easy money talks. Chelsea has NO backbone and is gonna ride the gravy train like the rest of them. She wants to sit at home in her flannel and beanies (WTF? Do you have a bald spot???), calling and texting Coleyyyyy all day at his job. I’ll wait to see her clean house and home cooked meals. I’ll wait to see her out grocery shopping. She’s lazy AF, and whiny too.

She can’t even man up and go to pick up Aubree herself, Cole has to do it.

I’d feel so much more for her if she had EVER owned up to her bad decisions. But Randy cleared up for her and now Coleyyyyyyy is.

Adiba · March 31, 2019

9 hours ago, SarahC said:

The whole situation with Aubree is just so messy and unfortunate. While i completely understand the reasons for the court order and why visitation is how it is, i wish there was better communication and support for Aubree to maintain a relationship with her fathers side. Instead of saying, "you can't see them!" Chelsea should try to talk to them and figure out how to make it work. I know they have done things wrong, as well. And it's not something that is just solved overnight, but everyone watching can see how hard it is for Aubree. It breaks my heart.

My daughter's father was nowhere near the loser that Adam is, but he was not the greatest father either. After we split, even when he was in and out, i would refrain from saying negative things in front of her. I made sure she was involved with his family and even took her myself to their family functions when he would bail. Well, 2 years ago, he was murdered. He had started dating a new girl with a psycho ex who went to his house and shot him and the girl. When i got that phone call, every conversation i had with my friends about it being easier if he was gone came flooding in. The guilt was unimaginable. I cant fathom how much worse it would have been if i had let my daughter know i had those feelings.

I am sure to her it seems easier if Adam would disappear, but i wish someone around her would be able to get through to her to stop being so selfish. Aubree loves her dad and his family.

Yes, Aubree loves her dad and her grandparents, which is why, if they want to maintain a good relationship with her, they should be following instructions and boundaries with her. I would never want to jeopardize seeing my grandson--so I would follow the rules, even if they seem over-protective or arbitrary to me.

Perhaps the Linds do need a primer on what is and is not acceptable when Aubree visits. Can they go to mediation with Chelsea? Or has it been done before?

I sense an almost defiant, misogynistic tone with Adam's behavior, re: showing up at his parents when Aubree is there and NOT showing up at the visitation center--as in, "I'm not going to let that stupid bitch (Chelsea) dictate how I see MY daughter" (not that he said that, just speculating).

And even though I am defending the stipulation that Adam should not have contact with Aubree outside of supervised visitation and the school lunches at this time, it doesn't mean I think that those conditions should be permanent if Adam is clean and sober for a reasonable time. I also hope he doesn't sign away his parental rights if he truly loves Aubree and wants to at least try to get his life together--because I think it would hurt Aubree to think her dad gave her up.

Scarlett45 · March 31, 2019

44 minutes ago, Adiba said:

I sense an almost defiant, misogynistic tone with Adam's behavior, re: showing up at his parents when Aubree is there and NOT showing up at the visitation center--as in, "I'm not going to let that stupid bitch (Chelsea) dictate how I see MY daughter" (not that he said that, just speculating).

It’s TOTALLY misogynistic and defiant on Adam’s part. It has nothing to do with Aubree, or his parents or “family relationships” it’s about pissing off Chelsea and disrespecting the court AND his parents. Adam has not shown any interest in getting clean, straightening up etc etc. That’s one of the reasons he signed the adoption papers for Paislee- he was fucking up so badly (like not paying his child support) he may have been in worse trouble than he already was. His parents didn’t love/weren’t invested in Paislee enough to clean up his mistakes for child 2, and since Paislee didn’t have a pre-existing relationship with them, they didn’t have a visitation order in place or anything like that. With Paislee no longer his legal child that’s one annoyance off of Adam’s plate.

Thank goodness he got a vasectomy! This won’t happen again.

BitterApple · March 31, 2019

53 minutes ago, Adiba said:

Yes, Aubree loves her dad and her grandparents, which is why, if they want to maintain a good relationship with her, they should be following instructions and boundaries with her. I would never want to jeopardize seeing my grandson--so I would follow the rules, even if they seem over-protective or arbitrary to me.

Perhaps the Linds do need a primer on what is and is not acceptable when Aubree visits. Can they go to mediation with Chelsea? Or has it been done before?

I sense an almost defiant, misogynistic tone with Adam's behavior, re: showing up at his parents when Aubree is there and NOT showing up at the visitation center--as in, "I'm not going to let that stupid bitch (Chelsea) dictate how I see MY daughter" (not that he said that, just speculating).

Oh, most definitely. Adam is a textbook narcissist. They do things on their terms, not anyone else's. Adam could easily make it to the visitation center, but he's not going to, because he's too big and important to follow anyone else's rules. Likewise, he puts Donna in a bad position by showing up to the house during Aubree's weekend. I don't doubt he gaslights her and makes her feel guilty for not letting him see Aubree.

That's why it really sucks there's so much tension between Chelsea and Donna when the common denominator ruining the set-up is Adam.

I also think that's why Chelsea needs to be the bigger person, sit down with Donna and hash things out. If she's really not trying to replace the Linds with Cole, explain that to her but also give her a big, heaping dose of reality. Let Donna know she wants to work with her, but it will be impossible if she can't keep her side of the bargain. Stop hiding behind lawyers. Stop hiding behind Cole-eeee and have a mature conversation like a normal adult. It certainly doesn't benefit Aubree to have all this animosity floating around.

ghoulina · March 31, 2019

15 hours ago, Farmfam said:

I also enjoy the comments here, while disagreeing, each have valid points on both sides.

My opinion? Chelsea could talk until she is blue in the face, but it’s not until the Linds actually own who their son has become that they will truly listen. It’s best she goes through the courts. If they valued their time with Aubree, they would speak to their adult son and explain that right now he can’t be around. Encourage him to attend the visitation center and/ or enter rehab, and slowly his parental right can be discussed.

I agree 100%. I don't think the Linds are ready to face reality. Donna told Chelsea at court that she needs to "grow up". So she clearly isn't seeing the true intentions for Chelsea's actions. She actually thinks Chelsea is STILL just trying to get one over on Adumb.

Chelsea also texted her to tell her they needed to take a break due to breaking the court order. If Donna was that serious about doing the right thing and seeing her granddaughter, she would have responded. She could have apologized. Tried to talk things out. She did absolutely nothing.

I just want to comment on Chelsea and the beanie indoors. Perhaps she wore it outdoors at some point during the day? I live in the midwest, not too far from where Chelsea lives. If I go out and wear a hat or beanie? That thing is staying on! Because it ruins my hair for the day. My boys had a zoo sleepover Friday night with their Scout troop. Saturday morning was very cold and windy and I ended up wearing my brown, wool hat as we were running around the zoo. We got home around 10 and I never took it off. For the rest of the day. Because if I did, my hair would look like a wild wolverine had been at it. It's different for guys. The hat can come off or on without much difference. But for a girl? It can wreck the entire look. Maybe that sounds superficial, but there it is.

Christina87 · March 31, 2019

31 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

I agree 100%. I don't think the Linds are ready to face reality. Donna told Chelsea at court that she needs to "grow up". So she clearly isn't seeing the true intentions for Chelsea's actions. She actually thinks Chelsea is STILL just trying to get one over on Adumb.

Chelsea also texted her to tell her they needed to take a break due to breaking the court order. If Donna was that serious about doing the right thing and seeing her granddaughter, she would have responded. She could have apologized. Tried to talk things out. She did absolutely nothing.

I just want to comment on Chelsea and the beanie indoors. Perhaps she wore it outdoors at some point during the day? I live in the midwest, not too far from where Chelsea lives. If I go out and wear a hat or beanie? That thing is staying on! Because it ruins my hair for the day. My boys had a zoo sleepover Friday night with their Scout troop. Saturday morning was very cold and windy and I ended up wearing my brown, wool hat as we were running around the zoo. We got home around 10 and I never took it off. For the rest of the day. Because if I did, my hair would look like a wild wolverine had been at it. It's different for guys. The hat can come off or on without much difference. But for a girl? It can wreck the entire look. Maybe that sounds superficial, but there it is.

I thought the "grow up" was because Chelsea wouldn't talk to Donna, but I may be remembering that wrong. I do agree she needs to grow up, and donna could have said much worse. And if she doesn't understand the intention for Chelsea's actions, it's because Chelsea won't speak to her. Obviously it would be great if everybody were on the same page, but Chelsea is making things so much worse by hiding behind lawyers and coleyyyy. I don't condone the Linds breaking the order either, but Chelsea needs to do her part to help things go smoothly for aubree.

snarts · March 31, 2019

17 hours ago, geauxaway said:

She can’t even man up and go to pick up Aubree herself, Cole has to do it.

To be fair, she has a newborn baby she's nursing and another toddler. Makes way more sense for Cole to go. Not to mention, it's entirely the Linds fault that someone had to jump up and go get Aubree .

IMHO, Chelsea has communicated with the Linds, through the family courts. Again, their fault it had to go that way. Common sense would tell you not to let your non-licensed son with drug issues drive off with your grandchild.

The situation is not much different that Ryan & his parents (who's currently in jail for heroin possession, btw) from Teen Mom, except they like being filmed.

Edited March 31, 2019 by snarts
Edited to add Ryan's current status, I was curious :)

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