S08.E12: You Give Love A Bad Name

[Starlight925]

21 minutes ago, Lusterleaf said:

Ughh. Never a fan of Jamie O. Always thought she was/is a fame wh*re. And you cannot convince me that she is actually into Doug.

Do you remember how she gagged when he first walked down the aisle?  She was so not attracted to him.  But magically, cha-ching, the sound of cash registers, and she's suddenly in love with him.

On their Jamie & Doug show, a huge point of contention for Doug was that Jamie still kept in touch with her ex, who is apparently much older and doesn't want children.  Doug felt that she should break off contact, because he always felt that it was crossing a boundary in their marriage (with which I agree), but she refused.

So yesh, I can't stand her.  I catch all my Unfiltered recaps from you poor people, who have to write about it here.  🙂

OK I've veered enough off Episode topic for now.....Luke is even worse than ever with his continued deflecting back to Kate's drinking.  But Luke.....why.....why.....WHY do we have to keep the sex a secret?  Um, Kate, you had 2 extra glasses of wine at 10:32 pm on February 23rd.....ugh....

Edited March 21, 2019 by Sterling

[zoltana]

On 3/19/2019 at 7:17 PM, Elizzikra said:

If I were married to Luke, or even had to spend any amount of time with him, I’d clench my jaw... and grind my teeth and do a few shots. He’s completely intolerable.

I think Kate speaks more clearly with other people than she does with Luke. I think she speaks in a soft mumble with Luke because she is afraid of his response. It’s all she can do to gather up her courage and say what she has to say.

This.  When I was in her situation my body language changed and that included tensing your jaw.  The arms held close to the body with the downcast eyes (except to look up and check the mood and glance right back down), speaking softly and mumbly.  Doing anything to not set the other person off even though there's no chance of that because they're going to get set off no matter what because they have a problem.

The way he talks to her is abusive.  He keeps emotionally beating her and she keeps apologizing.  It needs to end.  He needs help and she's going to need therapy to work on getting a shred of confidence.  

[GettingGray]

I live on the west coast and went to bed prior to the extended preview for next week.  I DVR’d it and watched it last night.

I want to comment on the AJ at the gym piece.  It is obvious that AJ is not a gym rat, more of a Pillsbury Dough Boy.  I believe the producers came up with this idea knowing it would set AJ off because not only does having AJ go off is good TV in their minds and also, since AJ has criticized the producers, they are getting a little revenge.

The warm up routine was obviously too hard for AJ, so I can see why he left.  It does not feel good to look uncoordinated and out of shape not only to the rest of the people in the gym class but to the viewing public.  Steph should have (and may have) realized this would happen.

I sort of felt sorry for AJ.  However, he DOES have a problem with his outbursts and if he wants to stay married (and not eat alone), then he needs to tell Steph that he knows he has a problem and will seek help because staying married to her is very important.

Is AJ an only child?

[SherryMarion]

I would drink too if I were married to Luke.  A lot.

[Retired at last]

In the preview (First Look) for next week, did anyone else notice when Luke and Kate were rewatching their wedding (the ONLY couple not watching it together in bed, or even holding hands), that Kate looked miserable (of course), Luke had that stupid play-smile and I THINK they showed a caption that was something like, "I looked so beautiful" coming from LUKE. Was that wrong? Not saying YOU as referring to Kate, and it wasn't Kate who said that she thought she looked beautiful, but LUKE saying "I". Maybe the caption was wrong. He couldn't be that bad, could he????

[qtpye]

2 hours ago, Sterling said:

Do you remember how she gagged when he first walked down the aisle?  She was so not attracted to him.  But magically, cha-ching, the sound of cash registers, and she's suddenly in love with him.

On their Jamie & Doug show, a huge point of contention for Doug was that Jamie still kept in touch with her ex, who is apparently much older and doesn't want children.  Doug felt that she should break off contact, because he always felt that it was crossing a boundary in their marriage (with which I agree), but she refused.

So yesh, I can't stand her.  I catch all my Unfiltered recaps from you poor people, who have to write about it here.  🙂

OK I've veered enough off Episode topic for now.....Luke is even worse than ever with his continued deflecting back to Kate's drinking.  But Luke.....why.....why.....WHY do we have to keep the sex a secret?  Um, Kate, you had 2 extra glasses of wine at 10:32 pm on February 23rd.....ugh....

The ex also composed the song that she walked down the aisle to marry Doug and her main reason for wanting to go on The Bachelor was to make him jealous. I have seen him and he really does not look much older than her and actually might look younger than Doug. Supposedly, she was madly in love with him but he did not want to have any more children, which was her dealbreaker with him.

[Ohwell]

50 minutes ago, GettingGray said:

I live on the west coast and went to bed prior to the extended preview for next week.  I DVR’d it and watched it last night.

I want to comment on the AJ at the gym piece.  It is obvious that AJ is not a gym rat, more of a Pillsbury Dough Boy.  I believe the producers came up with this idea knowing it would set AJ off because not only does having AJ go off is good TV in their minds and also, since AJ has criticized the producers, they are getting a little revenge.

The warm up routine was obviously too hard for AJ, so I can see why he left.  It does not feel good to look uncoordinated and out of shape not only to the rest of the people in the gym class but to the viewing public.  Steph should have (and may have) realized this would happen.

I sort of felt sorry for AJ.  However, he DOES have a problem with his outbursts and if he wants to stay married (and not eat alone), then he needs to tell Steph that he knows he has a problem and will seek help because staying married to her is very important.

Is AJ an only child?

I totally agree about AJ's gym (mis)adventure.   Not everyone is a gym rat (I prefer to work out alone at home) and I think Stephanie should have realized that just by looking at him.  I'm sure the producers were just waiting for him to blow up because it makes for good television. 

I still didn't like him slapping Luke on the ass though.

[Starlight925]

Yeah, I don't think it was fair to put AJ in a fitness class with a bunch of people who are more advanced, but yes, I agree that production probably thought....oh cool, let's watch this blowup unfold.

Earlier this season, Fitness girl Kristine brought couch potato Keith to the gym, but it was just the two of them, and Keith got a feel for what she does there, without feeling intimidated by a whole class.  Then again, Keith would likely never go off on a fitness instructor like we are about to see AJ do, next week.

[princelina]

20 hours ago, aphroditewitch said:

If she was intoxicated she could not consent, it doesn't matter if she was passed out or not.  And he claims to know when she is intoxicated. 

I hate Luke as much as the next person, and he shouldn’t be having sex with her if he doesn’t like her, but I can’t be too outraged from a legal standpoint that a man had sex with his drunk horny wife on their honeymoon 😄

[Elizzikra]

1 hour ago, Retired at last said:

In the preview (First Look) for next week, did anyone else notice when Luke and Kate were rewatching their wedding (the ONLY couple not watching it together in bed, or even holding hands), that Kate looked miserable (of course), Luke had that stupid play-smile and I THINK they showed a caption that was something like, "I looked so beautiful" coming from LUKE. Was that wrong? Not saying YOU as referring to Kate, and it wasn't Kate who said that she thought she looked beautiful, but LUKE saying "I". Maybe the caption was wrong. He couldn't be that bad, could he????

Could be and is. He did say that but I wasn’t sure if he was joking or serious...

[Soup333]

1 hour ago, Retired at last said:

In the preview (First Look) for next week, did anyone else notice when Luke and Kate were rewatching their wedding (the ONLY couple not watching it together in bed, or even holding hands), that Kate looked miserable (of course), Luke had that stupid play-smile and I THINK they showed a caption that was something like, "I looked so beautiful" coming from LUKE. Was that wrong? Not saying YOU as referring to Kate, and it wasn't Kate who said that she thought she looked beautiful, but LUKE saying "I". Maybe the caption was wrong. He couldn't be that bad, could he????

I think he was trying to make a joke. Kate did look absolutely miserable and it could be that he was trying to make her laugh. 

[Retired at last]

Thanks for the replies. I was so appalled at what he said, I just thought I couldn't be hearing/reading correctly. He is an ass and he just kept looking at Kate, who was so depressed looking and found no joy in reliving this day. The fact that he was smiling his Luke smile, like all is well, just makes me want to throw something. And, I KNOW it is a scripted, directed show, but I still feel like they have to have something real to work with.

[Palomar]

Since Luke tells his mom "everything" about his marriage...I wonder if he told her about actually having sex with his wife or pretended it didn't happen.  I imagine Mom will be happy since this will be over soon.

I feel bad for Jasmine that Will isn't into her.  If they could have gotten past that maybe they could have gotten past their gender roles differences.  Why in the world would any parents teach their daughters to expect their husbands to support them 100% or 80%. Marriage is too complicated for a married woman not to have her independence whether the marriage works or not.  Her parents are definitely coming from a viewpoint of a different generation.

JJ needs meds or anger management counseling.  It will only get worse otherwise.  They seem happy most of the time so hopefully he will be willing to get help.

[Mazzy]

11 hours ago, Drogo said:

Maybe I missed something.  Did Kate actually use the phrase "blackout drunk" or say she didn't remember having sex with Luke? 

Kate todl Dr P, IN DETAIL, about the honeymoon, who did what, and how they ended up sleeping together, and even how Luke acted immediately afterward. The ONLY place I've heard about Kate getting "blackout drunk" is on this forum, unless Luke maybe said it at some point ?? But Kate certainly never said that about herself.

[aphroditewitch]

4 hours ago, Retired at last said:

In the preview (First Look) for next week, did anyone else notice when Luke and Kate were rewatching their wedding (the ONLY couple not watching it together in bed, or even holding hands), that Kate looked miserable (of course), Luke had that stupid play-smile and I THINK they showed a caption that was something like, "I looked so beautiful" coming from LUKE. Was that wrong? Not saying YOU as referring to Kate, and it wasn't Kate who said that she thought she looked beautiful, but LUKE saying "I". Maybe the caption was wrong. He couldn't be that bad, could he????

He ignores how people are reacting to his behavior. He did the same thing to Keith earlier in the season. He is lacking when it comes to reading the body language of those around him and acting accordingly. 

[TexasNativeGirl]

4 hours ago, Retired at last said:

In the preview (First Look) for next week, did anyone else notice when Luke and Kate were rewatching their wedding (the ONLY couple not watching it together in bed, or even holding hands), that Kate looked miserable (of course), Luke had that stupid play-smile and I THINK they showed a caption that was something like, "I looked so beautiful" coming from LUKE. Was that wrong? Not saying YOU as referring to Kate, and it wasn't Kate who said that she thought she looked beautiful, but LUKE saying "I". Maybe the caption was wrong. He couldn't be that bad, could he????

YES! I replayed it and he does say "I". 

[kanona29]

On 3/20/2019 at 4:13 PM, calpurnia99 said:

Will is not into Jasmine because he is a catch and she isn't. 

Lol ummm...NO

The only thing Will is catching is some zzzz's. ;-)

I like Keith and Kristine together because Keith is willing to change for better(not worse) for his wife. That's a great trait to have in a partnership. I hope Kristine recognizes he is trying and they stay together. They seem to genuinely enjoy each other's company. 

I must say I really loved in the car ride when Kate sarcastically told Luke that he was "right" in order to end the conversation. When he came back with the whole, "I don't want to be right...I want you to understand..blah blah blah" and Kate dropped the "I understand...that you're right..." She knew that was annoying him and, for once, she didn't care. 

Luke hated that so much, especially when she put those headphones on and turned her back to him.

She should leave those headphones in and keep her back turned to him for the remaining time until D-Day. 

Luke also hates it when Kate wants to bring up his bad behaviors on camera. He 100% wants to keep Kate suffering in a bubble all by herself. Don't come on reality tv if you want to keep all these secrets, Luke.

And I hope AJ realizes how lucky he is to be matched with Stephanie. He really needs to get his outbursts under control or he's going to lose probably the only good woman who is willing to put up with him.

[Jeanne222]

Kate has perfected the I'm miserable look!  Bravo Kate!

[Soup333]

4 hours ago, Mazzy said:

Kate todl Dr P, IN DETAIL, about the honeymoon, who did what, and how they ended up sleeping together, and even how Luke acted immediately afterward. The ONLY place I've heard about Kate getting "blackout drunk" is on this forum, unless Luke maybe said it at some point ?? But Kate certainly never said that about herself.

I think Luke used that phrase in the car when he referred to her recent drinking.

Edited March 22, 2019 by Soup333

[DrewPaul2010]

Quote

I still didn't like him slapping Luke on the ass though.

I'd let him know he will pull back a stump the next time. Jerk!

[DrewPaul2010]

12 hours ago, Soup333 said:

I think Luke used that phrase in the car when he referred to her recent drinking.

He did say that but I believe it was a figure of speech not literal. No one including Kate has suggested she was violated or raped.

Still what a miserable couple. I do fault everyone involved for selecting Luke he is the epitome of the empty suit. He has an affectation that he is secretly amused by everything and he has a secret dialog going on in his head that no one is privy too.

The hardest part about marriage or having children is learning not to be selfish or self-centered.

[Jeanne222]

Kate with her eye movements and side glances has brought Luke to his knees.  I still feel Luke is the wronged party here.

I think there is a lot of wrong with Kate that Luke, being a gentleman and gently person, has not divulged. 

I also think the experts have gone very quiet on the whole matter.  I think they know something that we don't know and I think it's about Kate!

Kate's weepy story was a surprise way back at the beginning and the show got lots of attention because of poor Kate.  So that became the story line and Luke the goat.  We see the real Luke on Jayme's show and nobody can believe it's the same man.  The bad guy. 

It's the same guy but it's just him and not production deciding which scenes to include and exclude from the hour.

They have surely given Luke a bad name.  I also think Luke's mother knows Kate has BIG problems and that's why she knows the marriage can't last.

[Elizzikra]

2 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

Kate with her eye movements and side glances has brought Luke to his knees.  I still feel Luke is the wronged party here.

I think there is a lot of wrong with Kate that Luke, being a gentleman and gently person, has not divulged. 

I also think the experts have gone very quiet on the whole matter.  I think they know something that we don't know and I think it's about Kate!

Kate's weepy story was a surprise way back at the beginning and the show got lots of attention because of poor Kate.  So that became the story line and Luke the goat.  We see the real Luke on Jayme's show and nobody can believe it's the same man.  The bad guy. 

It's the same guy but it's just him and not production deciding which scenes to include and exclude from the hour.

They have surely given Luke a bad name.  I also think Luke's mother knows Kate has BIG problems and that's why she knows the marriage can't last.

I don’t see any evidence that Luke is gentle or a gentleman. I think he’s as much of a deflecting, gaslighting asshole on Jamie’s show as on MAFS. Both shows have production teams so there are edits on both shows.

I’d be curious about what specific examples of Luke’s behavior have led you to believe that Luke is such a courtly gentleman that he is carrying some evil secret of Kate’s to his chivalrous grave. I don’t see that at all. What am I missing?

[princelina]

5 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

Kate with her eye movements and side glances has brought Luke to his knees.  I still feel Luke is the wronged party here.

I think there is a lot of wrong with Kate that Luke, being a gentleman and gently person, has not divulged. 

I also think the experts have gone very quiet on the whole matter.  I think they know something that we don't know and I think it's about Kate!

Kate's weepy story was a surprise way back at the beginning and the show got lots of attention because of poor Kate.  So that became the story line and Luke the goat.  We see the real Luke on Jayme's show and nobody can believe it's the same man.  The bad guy. 

It's the same guy but it's just him and not production deciding which scenes to include and exclude from the hour.

They have surely given Luke a bad name.  I also think Luke's mother knows Kate has BIG problems and that's why she knows the marriage can't last.

I see Luke on Jamie’s show and absolutely believe it’s the same man!  Deflection, crocodile tears and smug smirks.

[Jeanne222]

20 minutes ago, Elizzikra said:

I don’t see any evidence that Luke is gentle or a gentleman. I think he’s as much of a deflecting, gaslighting asshole on Jamie’s show as on MAFS. Both shows have production teams so there are edits on both shows.

I’d be curious about what specific examples of Luke’s behavior have led you to believe that Luke is such a courtly gentleman that he is carrying some evil secret of Kate’s to his chivalrous grave. I don’t see that at all. What am I missing?

I think it's more in what Luke does not say than in what he says.

[Drogo]

25 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

I also think Luke's mother knows Kate has BIG problems and that's why she knows the marriage can't last.

I believe she knows her son is a douchebag and therefore not likely to succeed in marriage.

[gonecrackers]

I don't know what is truly going on with K&L, but the previews of next week with him walking around & the camera focusing on Kate, just standing there, miserably looking down - honestly, it seems contrived to me. I don't feel badly for Kate; she's annoying AF & should piss or get off the damn pot. Even if he is a real live douche she's played the victim card to the freakin' hilt & I'm just tired of it. I don't believe anyone is holding her hostage but I do believe she's playing a role now, & this couple has ruined the season for me.

I really hope some truths come out afterward that we're not seeing, but I won't hold my breath for that to happen.

Edited March 22, 2019 by gonecrackers

[Tatortot]

To be honest I am kind of looking forward to this one being over, which is very unusual for me!!

I don't really like any of the couples together, and think the experts got a bunch of things wrong this time.

[Ilovepie]

9 minutes ago, gonecrackers said:

I don't know what is truly going on with K&L, but the previews of next week with him walking around & the camera focusing on Kate, just standing there, miserably looking down - honestly, it seems contrived to me. I don't feel badly for Kate; she's annoying AF & should piss or get off the damn pot. Even if he is a real live douche she's played the victim card to the freakin' hilt & I'm just tired of it. I don't believe anyone is holding her hostage but I do believe she's playing a role now, & this couple has ruined the season for me.

I really hope some truths come out afterward that we're not seeing, but I won't hold my breath for that to happen.

Thank you. This completely. They are the least interesting couple to me this season. Why? Because he is straight up awful and she isn't far behind. There is no good reason except the cash involved to stay with this asshole after "Repulsed and Dead Inside". Much like Tristan & Mia last season, this relationship should have ended at the honeymoon. It was DOA at that point and everyone knows it. Every person that knows her has told her to leave: The experts, her friends, the other MAFS participants, even Luke's mother subtly hinted it wasn't going to work! She should have said, in the words of @Drogo, Fuck you Luke. And then left. I have zero respect for how she has played this. Zero. And I don't care if she has alcoholic tendencies, he is still an asshole. She can always stop drinking, but he will STILL be an asshole......

I can't wait for this season to be over. Gah!

[DrewPaul2010]

I see the word 'gaslighting' throughout this dialog I was pretty sure it didn't mean lighting ones farts...

Gaslighting is a manipulative tactic in which a person, to gain power and control, plants seeds of uncertainty in the victim. The self-doubt and constant skepticism slowly and meticulously cause the individual to question their reality.

Perhaps the best way to examine this inherently abusive behavior is to go straight to the source, the 1944 film “Gaslight.” The film tells a story of a husband systematically brainwashing his wife to the point that she legitimately thinks she is going insane. The wife fights to protect her identity all while her husband viciously tries to take it away.

I don't believe Luke is a master manipulator that is attempting to make Kate lose her mind or touch with reality... its giving him to much credit. At 30 years old he doesn't seem to have defined himself, what he wants or who he is. Simply put he was a poor candidate for marriage which requires maturity. 

[scruffy73]

I’m tired of everyone on this show except Keith and Kristine. Luke and Kate are both liars and just overall disgusting. Will and Jas just need to let go. Stephanie and AJ are scary. Implosion on the horizon. K/K have a chance if Kristine allows it.

[Elizzikra]

1 hour ago, Jeanne222 said:

I think it's more in what Luke does not say than in what he says.

So no examples of his chivalry then? I didn’t miss an episode where he threw his coat over a puddle so Kate could walk across it or a time when he bravely put on his game face to have and honest and straightforward conversation with his wife about their troubles? 

Quote

I don't believe Luke is a master manipulator that is attempting to make Kate lose her mind or touch with reality... its giving him to much credit. At 30 years old he doesn't seem to have defined himself, what he wants or who he is. Simply put he was a poor candidate for marriage which requires maturity. 

I don't think that Luke is trying to make Kate lose her mind but I think that Luke constantly tries to make her believe that his bad behavior and all their marital troubles are her fault. For example, he says she has a problem with alcohol but can't give any specific examples of why he thinks that (going back to the first conversation they had on the topic, not the conversation on the minimoon). He reacts strangely after every time they have sex (part of which is his refusal to talk to her for a couple of hours) but that's not his fault either - it's hers - for drinking (sometimes) before they have sex and for him feeling obligated (because of her, because "he knows it's important to her).  He knows this is bizarre behavior and asks her to "keep it private between them" and then tries to cast her seeking the perspective of the "experts" whose purpose is ostensibly to help the couples as a breach of their trust.  He disappears on their anniversary not because he's an insensitive cad but because he "didn't know where they left things." That's how I think he gaslights her.

Edited March 22, 2019 by Elizzikra

[Jeanne222]

6 minutes ago, Elizzikra said:

So no examples of his chivalry then? I didn’t miss an episode where he threw his coat over a puddle so Kate could walk across it or a time when he bravely put on his game face to have and honest and straightforward conversation with his wife about their troubles? 

Nope.  All innuendos.  What might have happened, what could have happened, what is said happened.  They have left it up to us to unravel.  No chivalry from Luke and no blackouts from Kate.  Just our imaginations! 

[Elizzikra]

Quote

Just our imaginations! 

And what we see onscreen...

[aphroditewitch]

All I have seen of Luke on Unfiltered is someone who thinks he can act but cannot.  I've seen better acting at an elementary school play.  

[kanona29]

2 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

They have surely given Luke a bad name.  I also think Luke's mother knows Kate has BIG problems and that's why she knows the marriage can't last.

LUKE gave LUKE a bad name. And Luke is just like his momma, cold and rude. 

Luke looks down on Kate. Unfortunately, with that type of dynamic the judged partner tends to lose their footing and power in the relationship. They become invested in fixing their flaws to make their partner value and deem them worthy enough. 

I remember how giggly and excited Kate was on her wedding day. She was so happy...Now look at her. smh.

I remember being in a long-distance dating situation where the guy was sarcastically mean and he would find ways to cut me down.  I'm pretty strong and confident, but I remember losing myself a bit with this guy. I became so focused on proving that I was worthy and forgetting that HE was not the worthy one. I finally snapped out of it one day and walked away without even a goodbye, but it did take me longer than it should have...

Anyways, I just hope K&K can make it work.  That couple has real potential.

[2727]

2 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

Every person that knows [Kate] has told her to leave: The experts, her friends, the other MAFS participants, even Luke's mother subtly hinted it wasn't going to work!

Except Luke himself, who told her and the experts that he doesn't want a divorce. 

[Mazzy]

28 minutes ago, 2727 said:

Except Luke himself, who told her and the experts that he doesn't want a divorce. 

But I feel like on this forum that has been treated like cell bars. So Luke says he doens't want a divorce and that means Kate has no accountability or expectation of maturity? She's a grown woman! She should act like it for a change instead of acting like a clingy middle school girl playing 'adult' with her couple-week long boyfriend. A grown woman doesn't need a man to define her or dictate her actions. It literally is of no consequence at all that Luke claims he doesn't want a divorce. EVERYone else is telling Kate to leave and Kate herself is saying she has to ask for sex from a man who isn't attracted to her.

I had some small blip of sympathy for Kate left until this episode when we found out that she - at least twice and frankly from what we know it's likely MOST times - pushes to have sex with Luke. I found Dr P's words interesting when she asked Kate (paraphrased) "and how do you feel when he turns you down?" Now I'm fully on the side of Kate being just as henious as Luke, just as much of a liar, and just as much of a 'poor little me' sympathy seeker. She could leave any time but doesn't out of her own free will to play the victim. 

[albaniantv]

On 3/20/2019 at 7:50 PM, Elizzikra said:

Getting blackout drunk doesn’t necessarily make you an alcoholic - and there is no evidence that it happened more than once (though having it happen more than once isn’t also definitively alcoholism). We don’t know that Kate is always drunk when she initiates sex nor do we know that she is always the one to initiate sex.

I think there is plenty of evidence that Kate drinks. They all drink. It may even be true that Kate drinks more than Luke would like her to drink (he doesn’t seem to like much about her so why not this?). None of this makes Kate an alcoholic. None of it makes her a problem drinker. The only evidence that Kate drinks any more often than anyone else on the show is Luke’s assertion that this is so. The only evidence of Kate’s “alcoholism” is Luke saying she has an alcohol problem. Luke lacks all credibility with me so I’m not going to stick an “alcoholic” label on Kate without much more evidence from many more credible sources.

Agree generally with this, including how little we actually know about Kate's drinking and how lacking in credibility Luke is about anything.

But I have noticed that none of the professionals on the show and none of the other newlyweds seem to like Luke. Most either narrow their eyes and question him closely (the professionals), ignore him or take him on with challenging insults (AJ). 

Not sure about the newlyweds --can't tell if any of them have 1 to 1 time with Luke--but the professionals have presumably spent intensive time with all 8 and it's clear they are not liking this man. That tells me we are right to be suspicious of Luke; whether it's just that he has never had an adult relationship with anyone and so blames Kate for anything that she finds amiss, or whether something more pathological (he's mostly sexually dysfunctional or gay) is going on is not clear.

The women seem to feel bad for or pity Kate, especially Jasmine, who might be feeling empathy. They have seen her in social drinking situations a few times. If they thought Kate's drinking made her unattractive, I think at least one of them would have said something??? So, again, we don't have a lot of information but the 3 women seem warm towards Kate and not judgemental --that says something positive to me about her personality.

[Soup333]

2 hours ago, Mazzy said:

I had some small blip of sympathy for Kate left until this episode when we found out that she - at least twice and frankly from what we know it's likely MOST times - pushes to have sex with Luke. I found Dr P's words interesting when she asked Kate (paraphrased) "and how do you feel when he turns you down?" Now I'm fully on the side of Kate being just as henious as Luke, just as much of a liar, and just as much of a 'poor little me' sympathy seeker. She could leave any time but doesn't out of her own free will to play the victim. 

Kate also said that Luke will initiate sex with her and she'd ask if he was going to be okay afterwards and he’d assure her he would be, but then would still scamper off into the corner. So isn’t he also “pushing” her for sex? 

[Lusterleaf]

15 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

Kate with her eye movements and side glances has brought Luke to his knees.  I still feel Luke is the wronged party here.

I think there is a lot of wrong with Kate that Luke, being a gentleman and gently person, has not divulged. 

I also think the experts have gone very quiet on the whole matter.  I think they know something that we don't know and I think it's about Kate!

Kate's weepy story was a surprise way back at the beginning and the show got lots of attention because of poor Kate.  So that became the story line and Luke the goat.  We see the real Luke on Jayme's show and nobody can believe it's the same man.  The bad guy. 

It's the same guy but it's just him and not production deciding which scenes to include and exclude from the hour.

They have surely given Luke a bad name.  I also think Luke's mother knows Kate has BIG problems and that's why she knows the marriage can't last.

They may be casting Luke in a really bad light due to editing, but still, if Kate is an alcoholic that he can't stand to be around then why not choose to leave instead of telling her to stick it out? Honestly I think they are both there just to promote their businesses and garner a social media following. I'm not buying any of it from either side.

[Nantango]

Am I the only one who saw Luke's mother say she did not approve of the experiment because it "made a mockery of marriage"?  That told me everything about Luke's intentions and certainly explains why she was trying to prepare his wife for a let-down.  It is all a big joke to Luke but no one told Kate.

[Ilovepie]

14 minutes ago, Nantango said:

Am I the only one who saw Luke's mother say she did not approve of the experiment because it "made a mockery of marriage"? 

Well, to be fair, that is a true statement irregardless of Kate and Luke. I think she was just referring to the whole concept, not any particular plans Luke had to marry a woman under false pretenses. She is not the first parent on this show to object to it. Not by a long shot.

[Empress1]

5 minutes ago, Ilovepie said:

Well, to be fair, that is a true statement irregardless of Kate and Luke. I think she was just referring to the whole concept, not any particular plans Luke had to marry a woman under false pretenses. She is not the first parent on this show to object to it. Not by a long shot.

Yeah, I didn't get the impression that she was talking about her son when she said that; I thought she was talking about the show as a whole. And she's right. I'm surprised they let that on the show. It's the first time I can recall it being stated so plainly.

[scruffy73]

5 hours ago, Lusterleaf said:

They may be casting Luke in a really bad light due to editing, but still, if Kate is an alcoholic that he can't stand to be around then why not choose to leave instead of telling her to stick it out? Honestly I think they are both there just to promote their businesses and garner a social media following. I'm not buying any of it from either side.

I’m not sold on Luke the gentleman secret keeper. Maybe he is. Maybe he doesn’t want to embarrass her. But is embarrassing her about her drinking any worse than acting like sex with her is a “bad touch” situation? I mean he does mention her drinking in small ways that make us think he is a jerk but maybe he thought there was no way she would talk about his after sex foolery bc that is also embarrassing for her? It IS terrible for both of them, more him than her of course, but I would never tell anyone that man had to run to a corner after we had sex.  Ever.

[LennieBriscoe]

I don't give a good GD what we maybe  "don't know" about Kate!

I for one have SEEN and HEARD ENOUGH of and from Luke the Puke to put him squarely in the human DEBIT column!

ETA: "Making a mockery of marriage." Besides arranged marriages' being common in some extant cultures, so have there been allegedly "love connection" marriages that we came to know were anything but from the git-go. E.g., Prince Charles and Lady Diana Spencer; Elton John and Renate. So I wouldn't call "MAFS" a mockery so much as a variation of marriage. 

Edited March 23, 2019 by LennieBriscoe

[Mazzy]

22 hours ago, Soup333 said:

Kate also said that Luke will initiate sex with her and she'd ask if he was going to be okay afterwards and he’d assure her he would be, but then would still scamper off into the corner. So isn’t he also “pushing” her for sex? 

I don't actually believe he does ask for sex. Kate claimed that and that's the only time we've heard it. Meanwhile Kate admitted to asking for sex at least twice of the 5-6 times they've supposedly done it, so at least 33% of the times they did do it Kate specifically asked Luke to participate.

Edited March 24, 2019 by Mazzy

[Crazy Bird Lady]

15 minutes ago, Mazzy said:

I don't actually believe he does ask for sex. Kate claimed that and that's the only time we've heard it. Meanwhile Kate admitted to asking for sex at least twice of the 5-6 times they've supposedly done it, so at least 33% of the times they did do it Kate specifically asked Luke to participate.

I predicted that by the time this season was over, Kate would be seen as some sort of horrible person by many people who post comments here. 

MAFS plays games with us, first making one person look like they're evil, then making the other person look worse.

It's what they do.  

Edited March 24, 2019 by Crazy Bird Lady

[Drogo]

22 hours ago, Soup333 said:

Kate also said that Luke will initiate sex with her and she'd ask if he was going to be okay afterwards and he’d assure her he would be, but then would still scamper off into the corner.

Truly the film crew on this show deserves a raise. Hazard pay, even. 

[DrewPaul2010]

Final comments on all couples before the finale....

Will and Jasmine

These two barely seem like friends never mind being a married couple. If they stay married they're only fooling themselves. I'd love to hear the experts defend these picks this season. I try not to be too hard on the experts marriage is difficult enough under normal circumstances. If it weren't for the drama of Kate and Luke we'd talk a lot more about this couple. I blame Will he's putting forth minimal effort. Are they really not having sex or are they hiding it too?

AJ and Stephanie,

I have a crush on Stephanie so I really hope AJ admits his issue and seeks help and he can have a wonderful wife at his side. I suspect they will stay married she will hope and pray with camera's gone he will become more normal. Not without help barring which I don't expect to see them married at the reunion.

Keith and Kristine,

I think they'll stay married. Best of the bunch Keith needs some maturing a bit more confidence and leadership. If he doens't have say so its because he's not leading.

Kate and Luke.

Can any more be said? Gives weight to the notion that people only go through this process and let someone else pick their mate because they're screwed up...

Could neither one of them really find a suitable mate? Kate?

I expect them to be relieved its over...