S07.E16: Star City 2040

[Lady Calypso]

Quote

FLASH FORWARD TO THE FUTURE — Mia (guest star Katherine McNamara) and William (guest star Ben Lewis) venture into the Glades on a dangerous mission. There they run into Dinah (Juliana Harkavy), Roy (Colton Haynes) and Zoe (guest star Andrea Sixtos) who deliver some devastating news. The flash forwards share highlights from Mia’s childhood with Felicity (Emily Bett Rickards). James Bamford directed the episode written by Beth Schwartz & Oscar Balderrama (#716). Original airdate 3/18/2019.

[BkWurm1]

Will need to watch again but I liked it.  😄

Edited March 19, 2019 by BkWurm1

[KenyaJ]

I loved it, but there was so much to digest. I'm gonna have to rewatch it at least 2 more times to do that.

But I can't believe they went an entire hour without mentioning what happened to Oliver. Stop trolling us, show.

[Morrigan2575]

That was actually a really good episode. I would watch a William/Mia/Connor spinoff. I could tolerate Zoe as well but, No Dinah and No Rene!

The William/Felicity reunion was great, very sweet. I love all the Mia/William scenes and, the Mia/Felicity reunion was beautiful.

I know a lot of people on twitter have been shipping Mia/Connor so they should be happy. The actors have chemistry.

The show spent money on this episode. I really do wonder if it got a boost because they wanted to use it as a backdoor pilot/proof of concept?

I noticed that KA is no longer in the credits. Yay! Diaz is really dead!

I'll probably have more thoughts in a bit, need to digest.

Nyssa training Mia was unexpected and yet totally perfect. BamBam said surprise guest stars but, she was the only one right?

Edited March 19, 2019 by Morrigan2575

[BkWurm1]

I only just realized Future Felicity wasn't wearing glasses.  

[insomniadreams88]

Loved every single scene with Felicity. Loved her reunion with William. Loved the Felicity/Mia scenes. Basically just loved Mom Felicity.

Liked seeing Nyssa train Mia. 

Really don't like how they keep being vague about Oliver. I swear it seems like every episode, they switch between past tense and some sort of present tense that suggests that he may just be "gone" (aka he disappeared instead of Barry?) instead of dead? 

Is it wrong that I enjoy that they keep revealing people who knew about Mia (Laurel, Diggle, Nyssa) while Dinah, Rene, and Zoe were in the dark? 

Definitely thinking we're going to find out Thea put Roy into a LP and he exiled himself to Lian Yu because of the blood lust. 

So Felicity created Archer in 2019, and at some point in the future, presumably at some point post COIE/Oliver's disappearance, the bad guys get their hands on it, and that's when Felicity really starts being Overwatch again/becomes the Calculator? Did we get a timeline for Galaxy/the evil corporation becoming a big thing in the Glades? 

Edited March 19, 2019 by insomniadreams88

[apinknightmare]

I liked it, but I still need my biggest questions answered.

HOW AND I REPEAT HOW DID NO ONE KNOW FELICITY WAS PREGNANT? Like...she goes off the map for at least 5 months and no one thinks anything of it? I wonder what story they tell everyone. And then I guess something happens to Oliver and she reemerges into society but she's a believable hermit because her husband is dead and she just goes about her life in Star City and comes home to her kid that no one knows about? 

I have to stop thinking about this it's gonna drive me nuts, LOL. 

Anyway, can't wait to find out what actually happened to Oliver and Beth to fix the mess that she made. Thanks!

As for things I loved: all the Felicity mom stuff - her scenes with William and Mia - A+. 

Roy I'm guessing has some pit rage he needs to burn off. 

Dinah and Rene can die. 

Edited March 19, 2019 by apinknightmare

[insomniadreams88]

2 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

HOW AND I REPEAT HOW DID NO ONE KNOW FELICITY WAS PREGNANT? Like...she goes off the map for at least 5 months and no one thinks anything of it? I wonder what story they tell everyone. And then I guess something happens to Oliver and she reemerges into society but she's a believable hermit because her husband is dead and she just goes about her life in Star City and comes home to her kid that no one knows about? 

I don't even know if she goes to Star City all that often? Didn't Mia say something about her actually going into the office and it sounded like Felicity basically just works from home? Which, yeah, it's possible to do, but generally not when you run a company. Unless she goes into SC until she gets Smoak Tech up and running and then just ... stops? SO CONFUSED. 

[calliope1975]

I really enjoyed that minus the NTA parts. If it was intended as a soft pilot, I think I'm in. Mia was a bit overly rebellious kid, but hopefully, that can be tempered. Nyssa training Mia as she grew up was perfect, and as I said in the live thread, I'd gladly read the fanfic of that entire situation. 

I'm still hoping for a redo because it pains me deeply that the Smoak-Queen family didn't have a few years of happiness and William and Mia need to grow up together. I do think it's hilarious who knew about Baby Mia and who didn't. Suck it NTA, but what happened with Roy? He seemed like an afterthought tonight, and that's weird given his history. Maybe things went sideways somewhere in 20 years. 

[apinknightmare]

1 minute ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I don't even know if she goes to Star City all that often? Didn't Mia say something about her actually going into the office and it sounded like Felicity basically just works from home? Which, yeah, it's possible to do, but generally not when you run a company. Unless she goes into SC until she gets Smoak Tech up and running and then just ... stops? SO CONFUSED. 

Yeah, I didn't think she went out all that often, but she must've been seen at least sometimes for Dinah to believe she'd "changed," and for her to infiltrate what's its name. But what happened before that? She and Oliver just tell everyone they're done and they're not coming back and then they just...have a baby in the woods and either aren't ever seen again or are seen very rarely until Oliver apparently bites it or goes to prison or to wherever it is that he's gone?

[Mellowyellow]

Soooo no alley cat upbringing for Mia. In fact she was very loved and looked after impeccably. Also seems to have had a really good relationship with Felicity before the vague truth blows up. 

Hmm.... but I'll take it. 

Sometimes this show does intelligent things. Like have Nyssa train Mia.

Of course we could have just avoided the apocalyptic future but I'll still take this for now. 

[jay741982]

I would so watch a Arrow:Legacies Show after this episode with Mia/Connor/William at the core with Felicity, Roy and maybe Zoe but NO Rene and Dinah as Supporting WITH a fix next season of Oliver being around in the 2040 timeline And Dig as well.  Mia is so badass. When she kicked the crap out of like  10 people slipped her cloak back on like it was nothing I was like "Oliver would be so proud". Loved Nyssa being Mia's trainer. 

[Primal Slayer]

It was nice seeing Nyssa again and having her train Mia was cool. After Roy hasnt had much to do, I was hoping he'd be a much bigger part of the episode. But I'm officially future'd out after this.

[KenyaJ]

15 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

The show spent money on this episode. I really do wonder if it got a boost because they wanted to use it as a backdoor pilot/proof of concept?

I'm pretty much convinced of it. I still hope COIE fixes things so Oliver and Felicity get to raise their family together, but this episode proved (to me, anyway) that a Mia/William/Connor centered show could work. And Lucas, because I will never give up on that!

Anyway, I really loved Mom Felicity. Her reunion with William and the two of them falling so easily into being a team was such a beautiful nod to the relationship we watched them develop in S6. I love how much they love each other. And that last scene with Mia was so, so good. I just imagined Oliver standing in the corner watching his girls and being so proud of them both.

"This is Mia. Mine and Oliver's impeccable genetics." Indeed.

I still don't care about anything involving Dinah and Rene, and Zoe is such a wet blanket compared to the other new generation characters. That's sad because I really like present-day Zoe. Too bad she's to young to play her future self. Dinah is so fakity fakity fake, hugging Felicity when a few episodes ago, she was speaking of her as if she was the devil. Good to know she hasn't changed a bit in 20 years.

Where's Oliver?

Where's Diggle?

But mostly, where's Oliver, show?!

[SleepDeprived]

I figured  it was gonna be one of the al Ghuls training Mia as she grew up. Someone had to ('cause Oliver's dead/vanished) and they had to have archery skills. I liked the sequence with Nyssa training her. And Mia's huge fight sequence was awesome, too. The billowy coat thing at the end was cool.

Okay, I know Felicity kept a lot from her but Mia is such a drama Queen. Lol. Totally like his dad. It was a really nice touch to confirm that Felicity was Will's angel investor all this time, though. I teared a little at their reunion hug. And I'm not going to say I did a little dance when they showed Felicity was still alive in the future (even though we all knew she would be and I totally did a jig) but it was just so nice to see her future self. I'm, also, totally going to take Felicity's old make-up being the best one and most realistic of people at 50 or so years old as a slight against NTA, even though I know it isn't and it's just the Arrow make-up team going overboard with their initial aging make-ups. Lol. Felicity truly is that unproblematic fave who barely ages a day after 20 years, huh? Love that.

Still wtf at that Glades wall being a literal a Game of Thrones-like wall. Lmao. How the hell did they construct that shit and why tf did they waste all that money instead of investing in smart tech, like they were already doing with Archer?!

Connor Hawke is a cutie. And I am interested at this Mia and Connor actually being a thing thing. That whole episode felt like a soft pilot and I think I might be into it. We'll see. It is so cool that Oliver's non-canon romance with Felicity, a supposed-to-be one-episode guest star, spawned a literal child who might lead the spin-off, though.

Anyways, y'all! Mia not being into comics? I laughed.

[tennisgurl]

Honestly, if this is a soft pilot for a new series starring William, Mia, and Bronze Kitten as future Team Arrow in even crappier Star City, I am kind of into it. All their scenes were actually great, the actors all work together really well, and you can see an interesting dynamic already shaping. William as the smart guy/master of undercover, and Conner and Mia as the badass fighting duo. With Felicity as the snarly but loving mentor, it sounds pretty sweet. And Conner and Mia have good chemistry, I could get into that.

I actually thought that was a good episode! See show, you CAN do good episodes with well shot and choreographed fight scenes, interesting character dynamics, and consistent motivations. I see you doing it! Loved that fight with Mia and the mook at the party and saving Felicity, especially using her hair to hide an extra arrow! So badass! Oliver would be so proud!

The future is weird and confusing, but thats been pretty consistent all season long. 

Of course Rene is just that much of a dumbass that he buys into The Undertaking 2: Electric Boogaloo. A big gripe I have with the future is that we have no really interesting bad guy. The guy we meet behind it is just some smug dickhead, and we just HAD a smug dickhead as a villain for seemingly ever, and he just went up in flames! 

Nyssa training Mia was amazing and such a smart idea. I love seeing Nyssa, and knowing she was still tight with Team Arrow and even helped train Olicitys daughter is just so sweet. I bet she still calls Felicity her sister wife sometimes just to mess with her 😉 

Dinah and Rene look like they both just rolled in garbage and salt. Every time they arrive onscreen, I have to resist the urge to roll my eyes. 

Will they ever run into the Legends in the future?

Seriously, where the hell is Oliver?! What happened to him?! Why cant the poor guy just catch a break?

Edited March 19, 2019 by tennisgurl

[Soulfire]

From here.

Edited March 19, 2019 by Soulfire

[Mellowyellow]

23 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Nyssa training Mia was amazing and such a smart idea. I love seeing Nyssa, and knowing she was still tight with Team Arrow and even helped train Olicitys daughter is just so sweet. I bet she still calls Felicity her sister wife sometimes just to mess with her 😉 

Oh I bet Nyssa is always like: Sister Wife our child is progressing well in her training.

***

Is it poor form that I laughed when Mia opened the secret lair and found a pic of Felicity and William! So Oliver hid William from Felicity and then Felicity hid William from Mia.

Kekeke Poor William! It's like the running Arrow joke that he gets hidden from various members of the Smoak Queen family.

***

I have so many thoughts but offhand I don't think Mia overreacted too much. She's a teen. They are nuts at the best of times and her parents hid a whole ass other kid from her so of course she's gonna go all Drama Llama on them. Add to that Oliver's Drama Llama genes and it's pretty realistic!

***

LOVE LOVE LOVE that Felicity gave her daughter a nice life and protected her but made sure she was trained within an inch of her life. That was sensible.

Edited March 19, 2019 by Mellowyellow

[SleepDeprived]

6 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Of course Rene is just that much of a dumbass that he buys into The Undertaking 2: Electric Boogaloo.
 

Me, when the show confirmed that yes, Rene is still a certified dummy, who would absolutely sell out his friends for his purposes, in the future:

[jay741982]

Also I gotta say I laughed when Felicity said "This is Mia, Product of Oliver and I's impeccable genes" cause when she said it she had her hand out and Mia's just scowling at Rene when she said it 🤣🤣

Edited March 19, 2019 by jay741982

[KillahBee007]

I watched this one against my better judgement but that being said, it wasn’t bad. The episode was fine until DD, Rene,  Roy, and Zoe showed up. It went completely off the rails whenever they did. 

It was decent episode but they really need to address the green elephant in the room, where tf is Oliver? 

Connor and Mia were/are actually together. Hah. I can dig it. I won’t be watching the spin off (when it happens) but props to the show for putting a somewhat cohesive episode for a backdoor pilot.

Seeing Nyssa makes me wish she was on the show. Imagine. IMAGINE. 

Edited March 19, 2019 by KillahBee007
Added Nyssa

[insomniadreams88]

16 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:

"This is Mia. Mine and Oliver's impeccable genetics."

Best line of the episode.

Also, I have to say that I love that in the future, Felicity's still wearing her wedding ring. Makes me think that we may will see Oliver again. Don't know why that does, but it does.

Edited March 19, 2019 by insomniadreams88

[tennisgurl]

I love how Mia and William were disguised as a CEO and an assistant (much to said not assistants annoyance) just like Oliver and Felicity used to be back in the day! William is so Felicity, and Mia is so hilariously Oliver, all drama and brooding on tall peaks and getting angsty tattoos and such. And that one shot of Mia being born with Oliver and Felicity together! Oh my God, he was glowing even more than she was!

Speaking of, I am not totally sure that Oliver is really dead. Maybe he is MIA and assumed dead, but really its something with the deal he made in the crossover? I dont know, I just want the whole Smoak/Queen family together! Hasn't Oliver earned that by now? Does he have to sacrifice everything for everyone all over again!?

Really, Felicity should know by now that hiding stuff from your loved ones never ends well!

Edited March 19, 2019 by tennisgurl

[Guest]

Aside from a few scenes, I wasn't really a fan of this episode. I feel like I should give it a second chance and watch it again because there was a ton of information overload but I also don't really want to. So there's that. Haha.

Good things:

-Oliver's gigantic beaming smile at the birth of his baby girl. Obviously I would've loved that whole thing to be longer and I always wanted to see Oliver hold her but I get why they couldn't do that.

-Nyssa training Mia over the years. Damn, even a LOA assassin knew about Olicity's daughter before NTA did. All the LOLs.

-William getting all choked up when he saw Felicity and then their little hug. They're so alike, I love it. I also loved that Felicity was William's angel investor. Aw.

-Felicity and Mia heart to heart. I really liked how EBR portrayed older mom Felicity. There was a bit of a sadness in her, too, which feels realistic.

-Felicity wasn't aged badly, REJOICE. Haha.

Bad things:

-The Zoe actress is terrible. Is this a Canary thing or...?

-Dinah's fake tears over Felicity being alive. Did she (and the writers) forget that she told everyone Felicity was evil and dark and had changed and even believed she could blow up the city? Go away FAKE!

-The scenes with Dinah, Zoe and Roy ruined the flow of the episode. I feel like you could've cut their scenes and nothing would've changed.

-The future SUCKS guys. I don't want this. I really hope Beth and Co realize they've made a huge mistake and change it because it's just so bad and makes everything in the present feel pointless. It's also like a giant dark cloud over the rest of the season. 

Edited March 19, 2019 by Guest

[cambridgeguy]

5 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Oliver's gigantic beaming smile at the birth of his baby girl.

That was actually SA's reaction when he found out he'd be getting a full episode's pay for 30 seconds of screentime and one line of dialogue.

[Guest]

Just now, cambridgeguy said:

That was actually SA's reaction when he found out he'd be getting a full episode's pay for 30 seconds of screentime and one line of dialogue.

Well, I'd be happy too tbh. LOL.

Edited March 19, 2019 by Guest

[apinknightmare]

1 minute ago, cambridgeguy said:

That was actually SA's reaction when he found out he'd be getting a full episode's pay for 30 seconds of screentime and one line of dialogue.

I don't think that one made him all that happy. He had to leave a vacation for that 30 seconds of screen time, LOL.

[Chaser]

Ok. I enjoyed it. 

I love the Queen Sibs. They casted them so well. I adore Will. My one complaint with Mia is she tends to go too hard. 

JDJ is a beautiful man. I can’t believe Olicity’s kid and Diggle son are a thing. Is this reality?

I wish it was more of Will, Mia, Connor and Felicity. The others weren’t necessary. 

Roy has total bloodlust right? They went off to destroy the pits and ended up dipping Roy. I need an explanation.

Another thing I need an explanation is the whole Dinah/Rene thing. Olicity didn’t trust them at all. Felicity didn’t even look comfortable when Dinah hugged her. What is up with that? Grrr I hate that nothing is probably going to come of this.

Im confused about Mia’s childhood. It didn’t look bad. Beautiful house, small town, cool mom, bad ass Aunt teaching her to kick ass. I liked the theory that Felicity and Mia were working together to save the the city better. This was kind of weak and made Mia look kind of like a bratt.

WHERE IS OLIVER? The more they don’t talk about him, the dumber the explanation is going to be.

[BkWurm1]

Rewatching observations:  Long post ahead.  My apologies, lol.  

Felicity and Mia live in Bloomfield.  And Felicity runs Smoak Tech totally remotely.  Huh.  

If Mia didn't expect the arrow to go through that apple she has a bit too much of her dad in her.  I'm going to head canon it as she normally lowers the tensile strength of the bow when she's practicing inside for reasons and this time forgot.  There. My mental crisis averted.  Also, awww, moving the family picture triggers the secret room.  

Mia almost setting off the self destruct reminds me of Felicity's lair earlier in the season.  The failsafe was a trick seemingly designed for Oliver...or Mia. 

I'm curious about the time line between Mia leaving and Felicity being rescued. A few years to be sure but Felicity thought she was "this close" to exposing Galaxy One before Mia left.  I supposed she was wrong and then moved to Star City to shadow her daughter and bring them down as the Calculator?  And she and Mia communicated frequently per her logs and shared info and Mia got her mom stuff she needed but they never talked as Mother daughter?   Ok?

It does feel authentic that Mia had a period of her life where she was estranged from her mom just like Felicity.  Pay back is a bitch, lol.  Also, Mia was a bit of the drama Queen, wasn't she, lol.  That's the Dearden coming out.  Lol.  

I really hope the show eventually explains why people turn on vigilantes so much. Argus in the future we knew targeted all metas and vigilante's were on the naughty list as well but yeah, going to need a really good story to sell why Mia would be so easily swayed by them.  

Also, if Mia was at least say 18-22 before she left home, when did she ever not get put first over saving the city as a kid?  These are questions I need answered.  😄

So jumping ahead, the SCPD faked evidence of Felicity's death so Rene thought it was true and actually was ok with Felicity being murdered for getting in the way.  That wasn't him being in on the fake out.  What a creep.  

So WIlliam Clayton became William Harris. Harris Consolidated.  I wonder where that came from.  

Connor aka Agent Hawk (that's kind of hot) is clearly working for a mom and dad sponsored anti-Argus.  Knightwatch has a nice ring to it.  This is the closest they've come to saying yes, ARGUS is to blame for everything.  

Mia and Thea have some similar personality traits.  They do not like being lied to, lol.  

Boy oh boy do Mia and Connor have history.  

I still can't believe that Rene's storyline was yup, sure, kill Felicity and blow up Star City cause I've got a vision!!  And then, oops, my bad.  He's such an idiot.  And he didn't even look happy when Dinah told him Felicity was alive.  I don't think the writers really like Rene or I'd have thought they would do more than the minimal to make him not evil.  

I enjoy the Mia/WIlliam/Felicity future but but all the rest of the stuff is just such crrapp!

 I think I was supposed to see chemistry between WIlliam and Kevin aka dude that wanted to kill/frame Felicity. (Mia telling William, "He definitely wants to be in touch") Nope.  He's generic all evil dude with no nuance. Why would I ship it?

I could dig lots of sci-fi future techy stuff in episodes.  

Lol.  Just realized that Felicity was kept in a room with no wall, just a clear forcefield thing but somehow they were able to have it pitch dark inside of it...but Felicity could see out of it and JUST when they needed the big reveal, the lights randomly turned on.  Hahahahaa.  Oh Arrow.  😄

I was so happy that Felicity and William got a proper reunion.  I teared up.  

I love how strong and sure Felicity "team of one" is but it also just keeps breaking my heart that she had to go it alone on HER mission all these years.  No team. No complications but so freaking alone.  

Dinah got a rather stoic hug from Felicity, lol.  She didn't tell you about any of this for a reason, lol.  

THe conversation between Connor and Mia "I know what it is like to have heroes for parents" makes me wonder if they are going to pull a "Oliver is alive and has been in Mia's life for most of it.  How can they be bonding over having heroes for parents and how much it sucks when they don't get to see them a lot of be put first if dad was never there and mom hid that she was a vigilante at all until Mia was basically grown?  I still would prefer a reset and a clean slate for a future.  

The meta shade tossed out with Mia saying "I'm not really into comic books." makes me smile.  Widely. 

  The Glade party was creepy but Felicity channeling her inner Donna and speculating about her daughter's love life was cute.  

Lol.  Right after Rene uses the "Help! Vigilantes!" cry to thin the herd, Dinah starts doing her thing and Roy just stops and looks at her like, what is up with that chick?  And then the PARKOUR! comes out.  I do love my flippity-flips.  

 I LOVED WIlliam's line about now having a sister to hate instead.  SO sweet, lol.  

The last Felicity/Mia scene was wonderful on many levels and I could watch it over and over happily, but I am confused about what has now finally made Mia understand and accept that the anti-propaganda stuff really were lies and that everything Felicity did was in her best interests.  It's confusing the abrupt turn around. 

All in all, it was a pretty good ride.  I'd take it again.  😄

Edited March 19, 2019 by BkWurm1

[way2interested]

7 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Boy oh boy do Mia and Connor have history

They must have taken a few homeschooled classes together because they also had chemistry

 

Edited March 19, 2019 by way2interested

[JJ928]

i'm starting to wonder if this future is all a virtual reality (or whatever it was Curtis invented and used in Diaz) being used to torture future Oliver, and that's how they'll write themselves out of this messy situation. 

I was so happy Nyssa was the one to train Mia, she was my guess/wish for the role. So I imagine she must've lived with them since she trained her her whole life, I'd love to see future Nyssa & her relationship with Mia.

Sign me up for SmoakNHawke they have good chem, and I really like Connor.

I do enjoy the Queen sibling bonding, Will/Mia have natural chemistry.

All-in-all, I think the overall plot was weak but I still enjoyed this episode. NTA were the worse part, I think they need to separate Zoe from DD and Rene, and integrate her more with the younger crowd but right now she's just boring.

[Lantern7]

I'm confused . . . so there's a MacGuffin in 2040 that threatens to wreck Star City and/or The Glades . . . and Felicity developed it in 2019? I don't get it. I mean that I'm not following as closely as I'd like to think. And the grimdark future is apparently set in stone . . . unless one or more of Team Arrow: The Next Generation (Felicity as Picard?) meets the Legends and goes back to the past, before the series ends. Also, was that the same hellish Star City that the Legends visited in their first season? I'm stumped. I blame Nora West-Allen. Normally, I'd go for her father, but she's already screwed up enough history where she'd be an acceptable scapegoat.

Mia is blonde, kicks so much ass with and without weapons, and has a massive amount of swag doing it. Are we certain she's not Sara's kid? Kidding aside, I like the dynamic between her and William have.

5 minutes ago, JJ928 said:

i'm starting to wonder if this future is all a virtual reality (or whatever it was Curtis invented and used in Diaz) being used to torture future Oliver, and that's how they'll write themselves out of this messy situation.

From the very beginning of this season? I'm not hating . . . at this point, I'll believe anything. Alien parasite has crawled on Rene's scalp and making him an even bigger jagoff while posing as his hair? I can buy that.

I liked Felicity 2040. Felicity Beyond? It's still EBR, only without the glasses and a bit of crow's feet. Subtle touches. But seriously, if you tell strong-willed people not to do something, they're gonna do it.

[BkWurm1]

5 minutes ago, JJ928 said:

i'm starting to wonder if this future is all a virtual reality (or whatever it was Curtis invented and used in Diaz) being used to torture future Oliver, and that's how they'll write themselves out of this messy situation

I'm ready to take just about any crazy way out of this being a set future.  I want a do over even if they've proved I will love some of the characters.  

44 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

-The future SUCKS guys. I don't want this. I really hope Beth and Co realize they've made a huge mistake and change it because it's just so bad and makes everything in the present feel pointless. It's also like a giant dark cloud over the rest of the season. 

Even if I feel like the show is trying to cover it's ass and leave wiggle room for Mia to have grown up with her dad but only knowing him as Dad not the GA and that he's often off on missions, I still don't want this terrible version of the future where there are cities being nukes and a company that stole Felicity's tech and is using it for evil AND where no one ever talks about Oliver except as a reason not to trust his son.  

I like the NewOTA.  But everything else about this future is just the pits.  For the whole freaking planet it sounds like.  I am ready to beg the writers to fix this in the big final blow out crossover.  Or bribe them if that might work.  It cant' be the real lives they are stuck with.  I don't even wish it on Dinah or Rene.  And then there's poor Roy marooning himself on the island clearly cause of some rage issues.  FIx. Fix. Fix.  PLEASE

[BkWurm1]

Quote

Mia is blonde, kicks so much ass with and without weapons, and has a massive amount of swag doing it. Are we certain she's not Sara's kid? Kidding aside, I like the dynamic between her and William have.

No worries on whose child she is since we got to be there when she showed up, but I do love that they've trained Mia to in such a way no one need ever question her cred.  And I do love Sara so I'll just say that they are at the VERY least equals, Mia likely having an edge on hand to hand and Sara maybe still some weapons training variety.  (Since it seems Nyssa held off with some of that til later) 

[BkWurm1]

So I'm seeing a divide of opinion on what Felicity meant at the end of the episode.  Let me do quotes for clarity.

Mia: "Mom, there's um...it seemed like there is something really personal about you stopping Galaxy.  Is that about dad?"

Felicity:  "No, it's not.  That one is on me."

cue present day and Felicity creates the Archer program.  

I keep seeing people that took it as Felicity saying "that one is on me" to mean her creating Archer led to Oliver's death/disappearance.  But I took it as she feels responsible for creating Galaxy and it's evil predecessor company. 

Thoughts?? 

[Mellowyellow]

Mia is around 21 in 2040 yes?

So I'm going to say she left home around 16/17?

I get the sense that Felicity was a paranoid mum who had Mia well trained and probably raved a lot about what a hero Oliver was. The ep gave them impression that they were happy, had a good relationship. The whole thing about the cheese and movie marathon suggests that they had a way better relationship than Felicity/Donna.

Felicity kept Mia in this small town and never let her go anywhere. Mia probably accepted this as a child and I'd wager she was happy enough living in this bubble with her mum but as a teen you can see she started to get curious and wanted to explore the world. Then BOOM, finds out mum hides secret sibling from her, mum works as a vigilante all alone and now resents mum for lying to her and hiding her away in this tiny town. I can also buy that she feels betrayed that Felicity is working as a secret Vigilante and therefore not putting her (Mia) first after all the preaching Felicity has done about how dangerous Star City is. I'm sure there is a whole "If you loved me why would you do this" and then she pulls a dramatic Aunt Thea and runs off! Ahh those damn Queens.

I will give Arrow big props in this episode for establishing Mia's fighting origin so carefully and so well. Heheh they obviously learnt from past mistakes and did not have her visit the gym a few times to acquire the sudden ability to fight. 

I AM SO HAPPY SHE ONLY LIVED AS AN ALLEY CAT FOR A FEW YEARS!!!!!!! 

***

I love older Felicity. I think EBR did a fantastic job. She totally and utterly showed what great range she has. She's still Felicity but very much battered by all the tragedy in her life. A bit more pensive, world weary. Whilst I NEVER wanted this for Felicity I did enjoy watching EBR portray this version of her.

***

I teared up at the Felicity and William reunion. I love them together and the show has done a good job to set up their bond. Also helps that I adore adult William.

Adult Zoe.....yikes....not good casting people

ETA: That baby they found for Mia was so cute and Toddler (bit older than toddler perhaps) Mia was absolutely adorable!!!!!!!!!!!! I love that age so I totally swooned over Toddler Mia! 

Edited March 19, 2019 by Mellowyellow

[statsgirl]

2 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I love older Felicity. I think EBR did a fantastic job. She totally and utterly showed what great range she has. She's still Felicity but very much battered by all the tragedy in her life. A bit more pensive, world weary.

You're going to hate this but in that sense, she reminds me of Moira and how ST portrayed her in the present scenes.

[way2interested]

13 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I keep seeing people that took it as Felicity saying "that one is on me" to mean her creating Archer led to Oliver's death/disappearance.  But I took it as she feels responsible for creating Galaxy and it's evil predecessor company. 

Thoughts?? 

The latter. No, it's not [about Oliver]. [The personal reason to go after Galaxy] is on me.

[Mellowyellow]

1 minute ago, statsgirl said:

You're going to hate this but in that sense, she reminds me of Moira and how ST portrayed her in the present scenes.

I can see why you would say that! I still love it! I think she did a fantastic job!!!!!!!

[thuganomics85]

Nyssa trained Mia!  Great seeing her again, even if she only had one line.  But any Katrina Law is a win in my book!

This definitely had the feelings of a potential backdoor pilot once Arrow wraps up next year, and there are certainly worst paths they could go on.  Ben Lewis and Katherine McNamara both are likable enough and have great chemistry, so it could work.  I'm not wild about the actor who plays Connor, but he at least has solid chemistry with them (especially Katherine/Mia), and could grow into the role more.  I guess the biggest obstacles would be Dinah and Rene, who both somehow managed to be idiots even when they're old and grey.  But, hey, Older Felicity is all kinds of awesome!

Purposely or not, it does feel like William takes after Felicity more, while Mia is more like Oliver.

Roy's little outburst does seem to hint at darker things, if not flat-out being Lazarus Pit-ed somehow, which would explain why he has been isolated, and why he left Thea.

Between Mia and Nora on The Flash, this certainly has been the season of "Daughter finds out her mom was hiding something from her, and overreacts to it" for the D.C. universe.  Something they could bond over, I guess!

I definitely think the final scene is hinting that Felicity creating Archer will somehow lead to why Oliver is gone: wherever it is because he's in hiding or something much worse.

[apinknightmare]

14 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

So I'm seeing a divide of opinion on what Felicity meant at the end of the episode.  Let me do quotes for clarity.

Mia: "Mom, there's um...it seemed like there is something really personal about you stopping Galaxy.  Is that about dad?"

Felicity:  "No, it's not.  That one is on me."

cue present day and Felicity creates the Archer program.  

I keep seeing people that took it as Felicity saying "that one is on me" to mean her creating Archer led to Oliver's death/disappearance.  But I took it as she feels responsible for creating Galaxy and it's evil predecessor company. 

Thoughts?? 

I took it as that initially, mostly because the "that one is on me" seemed like she was referring to Mia's comment about Oliver. But it definitely makes more sense for her to feel responsible for Galaxy if Archer has something to do with it. 

[popgoesculture]

44 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

You're going to hate this but in that sense, she reminds me of Moira and how ST portrayed her in the present scenes.

EBR was definitely giving me ST vibes, down to the hair styling. I actually found her voice kind of stilted at times and it was bugging me a bit. I know this Felicity is different, but I missed effusive, warm Felicity. Makes me think that Oliver is definitely dead in this future. Her voice seemed demonstrably restrained and clipped.

I really love the Mia and William dynamic, and then the incorporation of Felicity was great. I wish the whole ep was about this fam, but instead, we had the jarring scenes with Zoe/Rene/Dinah which REALLY were stilted (and the bad dialogue was noticeable). 

Was anyone else sad that we didn't get to see Felicity and Roy hug? I thought that was a weird choice, particularly since Felicity didn't seem that enthused to see Dinah. But I loved all the Wizard of Oz mentions, bc I think the only time we've gotten Wizard of Oz references before was when Felicity said goodbye to Roy and called him her Scarecrow. 

[Trisha]

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

I keep seeing people that took it as Felicity saying "that one is on me" to mean her creating Archer led to Oliver's death/disappearance.  But I took it as she feels responsible for creating Galaxy and it's evil predecessor company.

I took it as the latter as well, especially since it was followed up by a scene of her creating Archer. I mean, I guess there could be a leap made that Felicity is feeling guilty not only because Archer is wreaking havoc in 2040 but also because it caused something bad to happen to Oliver, but I’m not convinced he’s dead. I’m not even convinced he missed out on all of Mia’s childhood. Yes, in one training scene it’s only Felicity watching them, but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t there for the rest. I think they’re just trying to be super secretive at this point about what happened to him, and it’s possible he went into hiding much later (maybe even with Felicity’s help).

That might be wishful thinking though because the more the season goes on, the more I am losing faith that the crossover is going to change the timeline. I just don’t see them spending so much time in this future (especially now when there are so few episodes left in the series), just for the writers to snap their fingers and erase/change this world. The fact that this ep was clearly designed as a back door pilot also makes me think they’re committed to this future and this version of the characters. I’m just hoping Oliver doesn’t have it as terrible as they’re currently hinting at for the next 20 years, only for things to start looking up in the last 5 mins of the series finale. That would be gutting. 

Edited March 19, 2019 by Trisha

[JamieLynn832002]

I think part of the reason the "That one is on me" thing confused people is that the "Felicity created Archer" reveal isn't really a reveal, we all pretty much figured that so the actual reveal feels anticlimatic so people were reading other stuff into it.

I'm both annoyed and somewhat what impressed by their ability to set an entire episode in the future while still giving us no clue what happened to Oliver. I definitely think Roy either has bloodlust or has somehow been re-Mirakurued but it seemed more like bloodlust. It's nice to know Rene can always be counted on to betray everyone, I guess some things never change.

[Mellowyellow]

12 minutes ago, Trisha said:

That might be wishful thinking though because the more the season goes on, the more I am losing faith that the crossover is going to change the timeline. I just don’t see them spending so much time in this future (especially now when there are so few episodes left in the series), just for the writers to snap their fingers and erase/change this world. The fact that this ep was clearly designed as a back door pilot also makes me think they’re committed to this future and this version of the characters. I’m just hoping Oliver doesn’t have it as terrible as they’re currently hinting at for the next 20 years, only for things to start looking up in the last 5 mins of the series finale. That would be gutting. 

Sadly I think you are right. They seem too invested to wipe all this.

My hope right now is that if they can't/won't undo this, they will continue with the ridiculous and have Oliver be in hiding with Felicity shacking up with him on the side (leading to more Mia angst as to why her mum who holds her dad in such high regard goes off to see a mysterious dude on the side).

I don't care if it doesn't make sense! Just don't have Olicity apart for 20 yrs!

Oh and we can end the series with an old Olicity oopsie leading to Lucas being born! Chalk it down to super strong genes, whatever!  

[KenyaJ]

1 hour ago, Mellowyellow said:

ETA: That baby they found for Mia was so cute and Toddler (bit older than toddler perhaps) Mia was absolutely adorable!!!!!!!!!!!! I love that age so I totally swooned over Toddler Mia! 

That baby was adorable. And toddler Mia was James Bamford's daughter Jade! She was super cute.

[BkWurm1]

The little girl that came right before Kat as teen Mia was really good casting as well and really pulled off some good moves.  I was impressed by all of them.  

 

21 hours ago, statsgirl said:

You're going to hate this but in that sense, she reminds me of Moira and how ST portrayed her in the present scenes.

I kind of love the resemblance to Moira.  I find Moira like the shady version of who I'd wanted Felicity to be when she got older.  Minus sticking around after infidelity and being evil to innocent offspring that resulted from such things.  Felicity turned out even more awesome than I'd hoped.  

[kickingnames]

I really enjoyed it. I was shouting at the tv, squealing, instantly  replaying little moments I loved — it felt a little like old school Arrow. The stuff with OTA 2.0 was such fun, and Felicity was the best as usual. I never thought I could enjoy an Oliver-less episode of this show so much (I usually don’t last more than a few minutes). I’ll do a full rewatch later (most of you have aleady pointed out the things I loved), but a couple of things I’ll mention now:
 

17 hours ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Definitely thinking we're going to find out Thea put Roy into a LP and he exiled himself to Lian Yu because of the blood lust.

MTE. Especially if they remember the bit of canon that says the only way to rid the bloodlust is to kill whoever put you in the pit — if Thea did that to Roy, he would absolutely exile himself rather than risk killing her. It just hit me that I completely remembered that LP canon wrong — it’s that the bloodlust can be cured only by killing the person who fatally wounded you, causing you to need the pit in the first place, not the person who put you in it. Although if Thea did that to Roy, he’d probably exile himself just because. So same result, really.
 

I loved Felicity’s genetics shade, but this:

17 hours ago, Soulfire said:

From here.

might just be my favorite expression of the episode.
 

ETA: I always have to catch up on it late, but congrats to the Live Posting Thread for reaching the 5,000 replies mark!

ETA2: I got a key part of that canon wrong. Oops.

Edited March 19, 2019 by kickingnames

[olicityfan25]

I really enjoyed it! I watched it twice in a span of 3 hours. Had to wait for it to come on again which was great! I'm loving Mia, Connor and William! Felicity (Emily) did great with the grown up role. Dinah and Rene are useless lol. 

I needed it to be Roy hugging Felicity not Dinah.

[Chyromaniac]

The opening training montage was fun, and Nyssa is the best as always. But would it have killed them to switch up Katrina’s outfit a little?  Unless the idea is that for 14 or so years, that’s just more or less what she wears when they do that.  Like, she’ll drop by in a hoodie and jeans for book club or whatever- but the long coat and leather means it’s kickboxing with Ninja!Aunt. Oh, and apparently they only work out at like 3pm during ideal weather conditions...

Surprisingly, I now think I would also be down for an Arrow Babies spin-off. I think it was the mother/daughter stuff that finally  sold me- Mia has been a bit too one note, but I felt Kat showed some range in her scenes with EBR. I also really enjoyed the trio of her with Ben and Joseph this week. Hey- maybe Nora West-Allen can make a pit stop on one of her trips to the future, and bring Connor/William/MIA back to 2019 to fix whatever caused the dystopia.