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S09.E13: Chokepoint

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Airdate 2019.03.10

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Daryl's daring rescue mission forces Alpha to unleash a group of her own to retrieve what belongs to her.  The Kingdom's plans to reunite the communities are put in jeopardy.

MOD REMINDER:

This thread is for discussion of the episode.  Not spoilers from elsewhere, what happened in the comics, or news of cast comings and going.  If you didn't see it happen in the episode onscreen, it doesn't belong here and will be removed.

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I loved that episode, what fun! I adore the team of Daryl and Connie. Daryl has finally met his perfect woman. She is tough and sweet all at once. That bump on her shoulder was Daryl's version of a love tap. They have to fall in love and have beautiful babies.

Henry's hormones are ruling his big head, but he and Lydia are kind of sweet. She did go to save him so kudos to her.

Daryl's fight with Beta was well done. He got lucky. That guy is so much bigger and stronger than him. Next time shoot him with an arrow, Daryl!

Carol bribing the Highwaymen with a movie was unexpected and funny as hell as was Jerry asking for his sword back. I liked the Highwaymen guarding the road and coming to Tara's rescue. For once, they have encountered a reasonable new group.

Tammy Lyn was a badass saving her old man from walkers. Loved that!

Edited by SimoneS
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How did fat people stay fat during the zombie apocalypse? Food was scarce and there's so much running involved.

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Does Henry die soon? I've never had so much dislike for one character that I don't think I can watch much longer. I miss Coral.

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It's gratifying to see that Daryl has never bought into Rick's peace, love, and benevolence bullshit.  If he had, instead of slaughtering that guy behind the sheet, he would have tried to reason with him,  show him the error of his ways and maybe even broken a few windows.

2 minutes ago, Quilty said:

Does Henry die soon? I've never had so much dislike for one character

Same here! Just looking at him makes me grit my teeth.

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Carol: When was the last time you saw. . . 

Highwaymen: Porn? You've got porn?

Carol: A movie.

Highwaymen: Sure, whatever  you want to call it, we're on board.

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I am so excited that Liesl Tommy directed this episode!  It was the best episode in ages!  I saw her production of Danai's play 'Eclipsed'  at the Papp and it was AMAZING!  I wonder if Danai recommended her for the gig!  She's going to be directing the Aretha Franklin biopic and I will be lining up for tickets for that.

More Liesl episodes, PLEASE!!!!

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2 minutes ago, mightysparrow said:

I am so excited that Liesl Tommy directed this episode!  It was the best episode in ages! 

I don't watch the aftershow and don't know who she is, but agree this was probably the best ep since the Saviors came on the scene. Imagine how it would have been even better without the dead air that happened every time Henry appeared?

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2 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

I don't watch the aftershow and don't know who she is, but agree this was probably the best ep since the Saviors came on the scene. Imagine how it would have been even better without the dead air that happened every time Henry appeared?

Agreed.  She's a good director but she's not a miracle worker!

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1 minute ago, mightysparrow said:

She's a good director but she's not a miracle worker!

True. Is the kid who plays Henry related to one of TPTB? For this - arguably one of the worst, most annoying, useless and boring characters ever on this show -  they ditched Coral? Wow.

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12 minutes ago, Butless said:

Having her be such a infallible superhero who is always righteous, is also a problem. It was a problem they made with the Michonne character, too.

I know I've said just that, and more than once, that characters who never make a mistake are one big bore and completely non-credible. It's not just Connie, but when all the millennials arrived, it was impossible to imagine how any of them survived for who knows how long on their own - all well-groomed, well-fed and with perfectly coiffed and clean hair. That makes for good comic book characters, not flesh and blood people. I know it's only a show, but I find that annoying. 

And Daryl, in all these 10 long years, has never ever been tempted or interested in any woman at all, even when he spent nights alone with two of them. I guess Connie (whose name I didn't even know til last week) might have smitten him with the lightning bolt, I suppose. It does happen, but I'll believe it when I see it, but TPTB do realize Daryl is going to have to get washed first, bringing to mind Tom Hanks cross-tying Hooch to try and clean him up.  "Daryl is Dirty and Sexless"  seems to be some idiotic, unbreakable canon on this show.

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Well, as far as the slingshot thing goes, they can kill and distract zombies just fine without attracting as much attention as guns, plus the various ammo types are easier to find. And there's no reason to assume she hasn't used guns, or spears, or pool cues during her years of survival. But if your main skill is running away and hiding, then you want to travel light, especially if you ran out of pistol ammo a long time ago.

I agree that I don't want to see Connie and Daryl forced together. To her, he's old and stinky. To him, she's sexually irrelevant, because I do not believe that Daryl actually has a sex drive. And while the notes make sense plotwise, they do harm the pacing, especially in badly lit scenes where I can not even read them. It would actually be easier if they resorted to that schtick where she hands him a piece of paper, he reads it out loud, and she scribbles her next note while he responds. 

But as far as her being a scrappy sneaky little survivor, I think they sell that pretty well, slingshot and all.

Edited by CletusMusashi
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7 minutes ago, CletusMusashi said:

Well, as far as the slingshot thing goes, they can kill and distract zombies just fine without attracting as much attention as guns, plus the various ammo types are easier to find. And there's no reason to assume she hasn't used guns, or spears, or pool cues during her years of survival. But if your main skill is running away and hiding, then you want to travel light, especially if you ran out of pistol ammo a long time ago.

I agree that I don't want to see Connie and Daryl forced together. To her, he's old and stinky. To him, she's sexually irrelevant, because I do not believe that Daryl actually has a sex drive. And while the notes make sense plotwise, they do harm the pacing, especially in badly lit scenes where I can not even read them. It would actually be easier if they resorted to that schtick where she hands him a piece of paper, he reads it out loud, and she scribbles her next note while he responds. 

But as far as her being a scrappy sneaky little survivor, I think they sell that pretty well, slingshot and all.

A slingshot can penetrate bone plate? Not buying that it's a good weapon at all. ecause the brain is covered  pretty well by the skull, unless youre an infallible slingshotter who always gets them in an orifice.    Im sure she is, though, cause why not have her be that, too?

 The problem with the character isn't one thing or the other. It's all the things that make this character a 'badass;' that is a problem.

Also, who a man with as high testosterone as Daryl have no libido? Also not buying that.

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37 minutes ago, Butless said:

Also I find it gross that Connie has been called a good match for Daryl *because* she is a deaf mute.  As if she was a human equivalent to Dog. 

I find your characterization gross, repulsive and insulting actually. No one has said anything remotely like this about Connie and why she is a good romantic match for Daryl. Most people see a strong survivor when they look at Connie. Clearly, all you see when you look at Connie is someone who is hearing impaired and a burden. 

Edited by SimoneS
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I assume Connie carries multiple pens and writing tablets. Which is a habit more people should have. Another good habit would be for the rest of the group to start learning sign language from her and her sister and using it in stealth situations. AMC would need to have subtitles for that built into the broadcast, but it's no more difficult than "Survivor" doing exactly that whenever they have a whisperer, mumbler, or person with heavy accent.

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3 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I find your characterization gross, actually repulsive. No one has said anything remotely like this.  

Thank you.

How is it that Zeke and Carol make sense but Connie and Daryl don't? 

Edited by mightysparrow
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8 minutes ago, mightysparrow said:

But Daryl has been a eunuch to appease a certain fanbase, in my opinion. 

He certainly isn't a eunuch in the Wacky World of Fanfiction. In that world, he doesn't care how or with whom he gets his kicks even if it's with Harry Potter.🤣

But I agree! He's 50 years old! Let him get a little, FFS! This isn't Disney. He needs more than a dog.

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18 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

I know I've said just that, and more than once, that characters who never make a mistake are one big bore and completely non-credible. It's not just Connie, but when all the millennials arrived, it was impossible to imagine how any of them survived for who knows how long on their own - all well-groomed, well-fed and with perfectly coiffed and clean hair. That makes for good comic book characters, not flesh and blood people. I know it's only a show, but I find that annoying. 

And Daryl, in all these 10 long years, has never ever been tempted or interested in any woman at all, even when he spent nights alone with two of them. I guess Connie (whose name I didn't even know til last week) might have smitten him with the lightning bolt, I suppose. It does happen, but I'll believe it when I see it, but TPTB do realize Daryl is going to have to get washed first, bringing to mind Tom Hanks cross-tying Hooch to try and clean him up.  "Daryl is Dirty and Sexless"  seems to be some idiotic, unbreakable canon on this show.

Supposedly the actor has said this, that he wanted the character to remain sexless. In prior years, I guess.   

In a world where youre constantly on the run from getting turned into meat, by zombies and people, I can believe that you'd lose your libido. Especially if youre a woman, and being pregnant should be a death sentence.  And the lone sane voice on this was Lori, because why would anyone bring a baby into that world? Youd have to be insane.

There is also the problem of pairing Daryl, who had actual chemistry with a woman character the actors true age, with someone 20-30 years younger now. He looks his age.  Its insulting to every woman or girl out there, to do that. It's also insulting to Melissa McBride. Who is actually made up to look much older than her actual age on this show, where there are women in their 20s with their tits out,  makeup on and perfect bailage. 

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2 minutes ago, Butless said:

A slingshot can penetrate bone plate? Not buying that it's a good weapon at all. ecause the brain is covered  pretty well by the skull, unless youre an infallible slingshotter who always gets them in an orifice.    Im sure she is, though, cause why not have her be that, too?

I agree that there are more "realistic" examples of the zombie genre, but the show I'm talking about is "Walking Dead." Where zombie skulls can be destroyed by a firehose or a thunderstom. You can swing a flexible chain through three of them. You can kill two of them bare-handed by ripping one's head and hitting the other with it. You can slowly push a not-particularly-pointed knife straight through them. Honestly, from what we've seen on this show, I think a slingshot might kill them even if you were loading it with tiny little snowballs. Their brain cases seem to be made of paper mache. 

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12 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I find your characterization gross, repulsive and insulting actually. No one has said anything remotely like this about Connie and why she is a good romantic match for Daryl. Most people see a strong survivor when they look at Connie. Clearly, all you see when you look at Connie is someone who is hearing impaired and a burden. 

Yes; they have actually said that; I don't know why you would cast it as a lie.  I didn't say it was said ON HERE.  I know I read it on another review thread. I haven't actually looked around too deeply on here , or I would have quoted it.

"Clearly" I view the character as I explained in my post.  It's a shitty character in a show that has become markedly more shitty.

Edited by Butless

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Just now, Butless said:

There is also the problem of pairing Daryl, who had actual chemistry with a woman character the actors true age, with someone 20-30 years younger now. He looks his age.  Its insulting to every woman or girl out there, to do that. It's also insulting to Melissa McBride. Who is actually made up to look much older than her actual age on this show, where there are women in their 20s with their tits out,  makeup on and perfect bailage. 

That's funny because I NEVER saw that so-called chemistry.  And I don't see a speck of chemistry with Carol and Zeke either.  It seems that when Carol became some sort of mascot for middle-aged women, she had to have all the men too. 

It's clear that Carol was given a new look to make her more 'feminine' and it ended up making her looking like Granny Clampett.

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11 minutes ago, Butless said:

Also, who a man with as high testosterone as Daryl have no libido? Also not buying that.

Asexuality is a thing. Wasn't really on my radar, either, until, the topic came up about a character on another show. So I did a little easy google check and said "Huh. Okay."

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15 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

He certainly isn't a eunuch in the Wacky World of Fanfiction. In that world, he doesn't care how or with whom he gets his kicks even if it's with Harry Potter.🤣

But I agree! He's 50 years old! Let him get a little, FFS! This isn't Disney. He needs more than a dog.

Please tell me none of that fanfic you've been... um, researching... involves Dog.

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25 minutes ago, mightysparrow said:

I don't know if Lauren was cast in an effort to be 'inclusive'.  She happens to be a VERY accomplished, award-winning actress and TWD is lucky to have her.

As for whether it's believable that a deaf-mute woman would be able to survive in the ZA, I think it's just as believable as a middle-aged woman who was worse than useless when the show started now being a stone-cold killer and 'Queen' of a bunch of cosplayers. 

I've thought from the beginning that it would be interesting to have differently-abled characters.  Would they be able to survive in the ZA?  How do their loved ones respond?

I saw a potential for a Daryl and Connie pairing from the beginning.  I think they would be a great couple.  It would also be nice for Daryl to FINALLY be free of the rotting carcass of the 'Caryl' albatross that has been hanging around his neck for years.  Daryl is a grown man and it's been my experience that grown men are usually sexual creatures.  But Daryl has been a eunuch to appease a certain fanbase, in my opinion.  As you said, EVERYONE is paired up.  Except for Daryl.  I say 'free Daryl' and let him get laid.

I don't think Connie is any more 'righteous' than any other character.  Is it a coincidence that you also have a problem with Michonne?  The character is interesting and the actor is talented.  On a show like TWD, that's a win-win.

Michonne shares the same problem of being infallible, which AHunter pointed out makes her boring. I believe that wholeheartedly, and IIRC, a lot of people had the same feeling, when she came upon the scene. The made her all but speechless and scowling for so many episodes that it was hard to see the character as anything more than a caricature. A bad one.

As for Carol, she's OG, and there was character growth there, over years. It wasn't overnight. It was noted, commented on by other characters; they reacted to the character's growth. Connie's just been pushed onto the screen as-is.

Hershel and the older Hilltop couple are aged. One lasted for a while (one legged), and the other until present, because they weren't on the road.  Dwight's sisterinlaw was diabetic, and she was dying without insulin when they were on the road.  Those are some examples that followed some kind of realistic sense.

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3 minutes ago, CletusMusashi said:

Please tell me none of that fanfic you've been... um, researching... involves Dog.

NO!!😮 I steer clear of outrageous perversion. I sometimes skim a few others for giggles if they have a particularly laughable storyline/obvious self-insert Mary Sue. 

I was referring to Disney-type "A Boy and His Dog" sort of thing, like "Old Yeller" - oh, bad example. 😁

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10 minutes ago, CletusMusashi said:

Asexuality is a thing. Wasn't really on my radar, either, until, the topic came up about a character on another show. So I did a little easy google check and said "Huh. Okay."

I am aware that it's a thing. I'm not aware that testosterone is not a factor for plenty, if not all, asexuals. 

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Jeez who would have thought in a world where everyone is up against it and suffering that just talking it out and reasonable negotiation could actually benefit everyone???!!!! 

Revelation....

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I agree, being alive and handicapped in the ZA, unless you're living in a protected community, means you're doing something right. Connie is smart, fast, and knows when to choose between planning and decisiveness. She's not an action hero. She's a scrambler, like early Glenn. And I like that character type.

I just wish they'd streamline the note-passing scenes. After commercials, the show's only like half an hour long, so scene length matters. You don't need to talk, though, to do a compelling scene. Rick spent a good chunk of the pilot episode with nobody to talk to, and it was riveting. Enid rolling bottles around to make the zombies move and help Glenn? I like those quiet, simple, easy to see in broad daylight activity moments. And they'd be a good use for the silent character.

Edited by CletusMusashi
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35 minutes ago, Quilty said:

I agree with all of this! I was thinking to myself while watching, what if Connie drops her pen? Will they all go try to find it? I just don't buy her being the badass they want us to think she is. I hated the Glen&Maggie hookup. I can honestly say for the first time since I started watching the first season I watch it now to see who dies. I don't care about or even really like any character.

As if there are never any miscommunications, or other characters are always going to be close enough or positioned the right way to read everything she writes. As if they would always have the time to read what she writes in a jam, etc. 

Yeah; pretty much have it on to glance up at character deaths. I never understood people who hate watched, before.

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24 minutes ago, mightysparrow said:

That's funny because I NEVER saw that so-called chemistry.  And I don't see a speck of chemistry with Carol and Zeke either.  It seems that when Carol became some sort of mascot for middle-aged women, she had to have all the men too. 

It's clear that Carol was given a new look to make her more 'feminine' and it ended up making her looking like Granny Clampett.

You might be in the minority then, because a lot of viewers saw the chemistry. I never stanned for them, or like the Daryl actor.

Do you honestly believe that the main audience of this show is made up of middleaged women? Because I gotta believe that Carol is loved on a much larger audience base. The character went from abused to stronger and stronger. It was seen, commented and reacted to by the other OG characters.  The audience had an underdog to root for. Who cant identify with a character like that? SHe didn't become infallible until the last few years; a victim of bad writing, because the actress has already shown she's better than that.

I will never understand the horrible wigs on this show. They have the budget for the best, but pinch every penny that they can.

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1 minute ago, mightysparrow said:

Do you mean, 'old girl'?

No; that's Brett Butler.

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I think that Daryl recognized a kindred spirit when he saw Connie rescuing that baby.  It's something he would have done.  It seems that he admires her resourcefulness and her fighting spirit.  I think it was the same with Michonne when they were out hunting down the Governor and discovering moonshine shacks.  That was shut down with a quickness once the rumbling started.  Poor Daryl hasn't even been allowed to have female FRIENDS.

As soon as I called the Connie-Daryl 'ship', I predicted that the knives would be out, just like they were for Andrea/Lori, Michonne/Danai and Beth/whatever her name is.  I wonder if the actress is getting death threats yet.

Edited by mightysparrow
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I was tickled to see that the Kingdom has a statue of Shiva, the shows true hero, up on top of a building. RIP. 

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2 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

True. Is the kid who plays Henry related to one of TPTB?

He is the older brother to the kid that played younger Henry and to the other kid that played Carol's daughter, Sophia.

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I liked that Daryl has never had a love interest, because I hate when shows feel the need to pair people up. I never saw romantic chemistry between him and Carol. I liked that they could have such a close platonic relationship, with out it having to turn into something else. But saying that... at this point in the show, I wouldn't mind if Daryl and Connie become a thing. I don't get the conversations about their ages. The actress is going to be 41 next month. She's hardly a young millenial. She's smart and brave and strong-willed. Hopefully she teaches Daryl some ASL. The note writing does slow things down a bit.

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Can Henry please get eaten sooner rather than later? Pretty please? I can’t think of a more useless waste of space character. Anyone who gets killed this season is directly because of him. 

I’m already tired of Connie and her notepad of never ending pages. Seriously, you use one 1 page for two words, what’s gonna happen when you run out of pages? Can’t stand her acting all superior. They should have left Lydia alone. Any conflict is of their own making. 

Edited by Cotypubby
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7 minutes ago, pezgirl7 said:

I liked that Daryl has never had a love interest, because I hate when shows feel the need to pair people up. I never saw romantic chemistry between him and Carol. I liked that they could have such a close platonic relationship, with out it having to turn into something else. But saying that... at this point in the show, I wouldn't mind if Daryl and Connie become a thing. I don't get the conversations about their ages. The actress is going to be 41 next month. She's hardly a young millenial. She's smart and brave and strong-willed. Hopefully she teaches Daryl some ASL. The note writing does slow things down a bit.

I saw the same thing between Daryl and Carol.  They were friends with a bit of maternal/big sister mixed in. 

Daryl and Connie are well-suited.  The fact that she doesn't speak would definitely work for a man of few words.  They have a pretty efficient method of communication already.  The notes are more for the audience than the characters.  Maybe tptb should give their viewers more credit and let the actors ACT instead of using notes that most of us can't see anyway.

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I always saw Darryl and Carol as more brother/sister than possible love connection. I mean, they love each other, but it always feels familiar to me. Carol always seemed rather big sister/maternal towards him, not so much with the romantic chemistry. 

I actually liked this episode, I thought most of the stories worked, and while I just cant with Henry, not even he was as annoying as he has been. Maybe my standards on this show are low? I think it helped that we mostly focused on just a few characters, most of whom I actually know and like, instead of countless random new people. 

I like Darryl and Connie, they make a good team. I somehow just never read Darryl as having much interest in romance in general, but if they did decide on pairing them off, I would be alright with it. Connie is a survivor who hasn't given up on her decency, and both works well with a team and on her own, which is just his type of person. Who knows, maybe Connie will be the one to get the guy to take a damn shower?! They were fun together though, and while the constant writing was a lot (and they really need to get her a bigger pad of paper!), they had a cool dynamic. And the fight between Darryl and Beta was good, probably one of the best they've had in awhile. 

I was almost sad not to see Carol kicking ass, but I loved her getting the cowboys to work with them by letting them watch a movie. I mean, that would basically be me in the ZA, just wanting to watch any crappy movie I could get my hands on. And its nice to have them meet a group that, while not exactly benevolent, are basically reasonable and not crazy like the Whispers or evil like the Saviors. At least, for now anyway. 

"It sounds like a grammatically correct death threat yo." Jerry is a national treasure. 

*Jerry whispers to Ezekiel*

"And Jerry would very much like his sword back."

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I threw one of my cat's toys at my tv because it was so fucking DARK. JFC I'm so tired of the darkness. 

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I thought offering the highwaymen an opportunity to see a movie was totally ridiculous.

Connie is indeed using a wrist rocket.  If you notice, it has steel bars that go back in line on each side of the human arm with a leather strap that goes over the forearm connecting the ends of the two bars.   That helps keep the wrist steady when she pulls back the rubberized hollow tubing.  That tubing needs to be replaced quite often, because it is hollow, can stretch out, often become brittle and break.   She should have an extra set of tubing in her pocket along with the leather center piece that holds the ammo when she uses that weapon.  

I thought for sure dog was going to die when Lydia let him out of the locked door.  Kind of convenient that she was locked in a room with a prybar in a tool chest.

I thought the fight scene between Beta and Daryl was very well done.

Of Course Beta was going to live.  Daryl should have kept dumping everything he could find down the elevator shaft.

I thought for sure Earl had gotten bitten, I guess I was wrong.

Edited by icemiser69
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3 hours ago, MVFrostsMyPie said:

I threw one of my cat's toys at my tv because it was so fucking DARK. JFC I'm so tired of the darkness. 

I am just glad you didn't throw the cat.

I am an animal lover, not in a creepy way.

I have more than one tv in my home, I only have a problem with darkness on one of the televisions.

Edited by icemiser69
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12 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I always saw Darryl and Carol as more brother/sister than possible love connection. I mean, they love each other, but it always feels familiar to me. Carol always seemed rather big sister/maternal towards him, not so much with the romantic chemistry. 

I had always thought that Daryl and Meryl were more than brothers, if you get my drift.  After all of these years, I don't recall Daryl being romantic with anyone. 

15 hours ago, Quilty said:

How did fat people stay fat during the zombie apocalypse? Food was scarce and there's so much running involved.

How does a cow get fat just grazing.

Even in a ZA it would be easy for me to put on weight.  Carbohydrates.

Edited by icemiser69 · Reason: Edited for content. I think I was being too much of a smartass.
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7 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

True. Is the kid who plays Henry related to one of TPTB? For this - arguably one of the worst, most annoying, useless and boring characters ever on this show -  they ditched Coral? Wow.

I blame it all on the writing.

There were many viewers who didn't think that Daryl could be elevated after Rick left.   I think Daryl has been totally awesome.

Edited by icemiser69
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7 hours ago, Butless said:

The note writing slows things down, and there is no captioning on AMC. Its hard enough to see things onscreen, and I'm not not getting it. 

She is rapidly running out of paper,  I am watching that little notepad like a hawk.  I want to see if it all of a sudden that spiral pad gets bigger without them running off to the store to get more paper.

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6 hours ago, mightysparrow said:

As for whether it's believable that a deaf-mute woman would be able to survive in the ZA, I think it's just as believable as a middle-aged woman who was worse than useless when the show started now being a stone-cold killer and 'Queen' of a bunch of cosplayers. 

Carol has gone soft.  There is no other explanation to the existence of the wuss, Henry.

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7 hours ago, Quilty said:

I agree with all of this! I was thinking to myself while watching, what if Connie drops her pen? Will they all go try to find it? I just don't buy her being the badass they want us to think she is. I hated the Glen&Maggie hookup. I can honestly say for the first time since I started watching the first season I watch it now to see who dies. I don't care about or even really like any character.

Daryl should have learned sign language by now.  The whole writing notes on paper thing is done for the audience's benefit.  If she didn't write notes, Daryl would have to constantly repeat what Connie is signing for those in the viewing audience who don't know sign language to understand what Connie is "saying".

Of course they could also go the subtitle route.

I am glad that Daryl isn't hooking up with anyone.  The many loves of Rosita is already too much to take.

It is too bad that Eugene isn't the deaf one.

Edited by icemiser69
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6 hours ago, Butless said:

A slingshot can penetrate bone plate? Not buying that it's a good weapon at all. ecause the brain is covered  pretty well by the skull, unless youre an infallible slingshotter who always gets them in an orifice.    Im sure she is, though, cause why not have her be that, too?

Glass marble ammo will shatter and fragment on impact and steel ball bearing ammo can also do a lot of damage/kill.   I just wish that Connie was using said ammo.

Edited by icemiser69
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