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S09.E13: Chokepoint

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11 minutes ago, mightysparrow said:

The actress who plays Connie said the first intimate scene between Connie and Daryl would have to be a shower scene. 

Good luck to her. Daryl is no young, raging stud anymore and I can't imagine him being horny enough to shower even for a chance like this. His right hand never complains about his coating of grime. Why would he bother changing all that for some girl? Disclaimer: I call her a "girl" because she looks very young (but everyone looks young to me now) and I can't be bothered looking up the actress's age. 

14 minutes ago, mightysparrow said:

We rarely get female bonding scenes and the show is the worse for it. 

Other than Sasha and Rosita's talk, before their bumbling attempt at killing Negan, I do not remember ever seeing two women here having anything resembling a real conversation, never mind bonding. I guess Kirkman is not good at "women stuff".

17 minutes ago, mightysparrow said:

The short, sad answer is YES, there are fans out there that think if Daryl stays single, they have a chance.

Good lord. Really? Daryl is an attractive man, but when I read these breathless fics written by what seem to be 14-year-old virgins, all I can think is, "Do you know what he SMELLS like?" I won't go into detail and I have no objections to a little healthy sweat and grime that come from a hard day's work, but him? No way.

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I don't hate Tara, but the less I see of her, the better.  However, if she ever does another fucking fist bump, I'm going to hope and pray that Alpha skins her alive. 

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3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Please, no. Get her a ball-point. The squeaking noise that thing makes on her note pad is like nails on a chalk board to me.

She has a ball-point now--which requires me to get up, stomp over and squint at the damn screen.

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30 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

Other than Sasha and Rosita's talk, before their bumbling attempt at killing Negan, I do not remember ever seeing two women here having anything resembling a real conversation, never mind bonding. I guess Kirkman is not good at "women stuff".

There was a moment between Michonne and Sasha when Michonne told Sasha to get it together.  That was nice too.  But moments between women are few and far between.

As long as he gets rid of the funk, I think it would be interesting to see our Daryl become an inside cat.

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2 minutes ago, mightysparrow said:

There was a moment between Michonne and Sasha when Michonne told Sasha to get it together.  That was nice too.  But moments between women are few and far between.

As long as he gets rid of the funk, I think it would be interesting to see our Daryl become an inside cat.

agreed. granted a post apocalyptic world would  be weird, but women do communicate way way better than guys. and so far has seemed either too direct or confrontational. there's little bonding going on, which in that world i would think would strive to surface more than ever. take michonne - yes needs to take charge, but seems there should be a mirroring bonding thing with someone to bounce the days problems off of, since Rick-coral is gone now.  maybe as an older single guy i am wrong? but that's what seems to be presented to more as typical gals, middle age, dealing with sh*t the world and dudes hand us. you. all.

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8 minutes ago, Colorado David said:

agreed. granted a post apocalyptic world would  be weird, but women do communicate way way better than guys. and so far has seemed either too direct or confrontational. there's little bonding going on, which in that world i would think would strive to surface more than ever. take michonne - yes needs to take charge, but seems there should be a mirroring bonding thing with someone to bounce the days problems off of, since Rick-coral is gone now.  maybe as an older single guy i am wrong? but that's what seems to be presented to more as typical gals, middle age, dealing with sh*t the world and dudes hand us. you. all.

Michonne had a good conversation with Aaron an episode or two ago when they were having a discussion about the Alexandrians going to the fair.

Aaron is an underutilized character. 

Edited by icemiser69
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2 hours ago, Pixiebomb said:

I just realized that I don’t miss Maggie one bit.  

Who?

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17 minutes ago, Colorado David said:

agreed. granted a post apocalyptic world would  be weird, but women do communicate way way better than guys. and so far has seemed either too direct or confrontational. there's little bonding going on, which in that world i would think would strive to surface more than ever. take michonne - yes needs to take charge, but seems there should be a mirroring bonding thing with someone to bounce the days problems off of, since Rick-coral is gone now.  maybe as an older single guy i am wrong? but that's what seems to be presented to more as typical gals, middle age, dealing with sh*t the world and dudes hand us. you. all.

It makes me sad to see Michonne so isolated.  She fought so hard for a home for her people and she wanted it so much, especially for Carl and Judith. 

13 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Aaron is an underutilized character. 

Aaron is CRIMINALLY underutilized.

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12 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Aaron is an underutilized character.

I agree. I was quite fond of Aaron til TPTB turned him into a moron who went wandering through the woods and ended up dehydrated and rolling around in a mud puddle for the Ocean women to sneer at. But really, who can be given attention in this huge and steadily growing cast of characters, most of whom I do not even know their names or where the hell they came from. Yeah, I realize maybe that's just me, but the additions and turn-overs are dizzying. 

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2 minutes ago, mightysparrow said:

It makes me sad to see Michonne so isolated.  She fought so hard for a home for her people and she wanted it so much, especially for Carl and Judith. 

Aaron is CRIMINALLY underutilized.

abs. Ross Marquand is a great actor, and they could so put him in a lead role and he'd frigging kill it. wish they would.

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2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I have a soft spot for Tara.  I don't know why.  Maybe it is because she is so disliked.

I am still waiting to see if Heath ever comes back.

I'm loud and proud about my love of Tara.

I think what with all of the time jumps that have happened the Heath boat has sailed, although they could probably make a case for him showing up in the movies. That would be cool.

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4 minutes ago, Colorado David said:

abs. Ross Marquand is a great actor, and they could so put him in a lead role and he'd frigging kill it

Agree with that too. He is a good actor - better than most on this show - as well as being a very talented impressionist. How I'd love to see him impersonate Rick at his most obnoxious "Ricktator" monologuing persona for the amusement of others - maybe at the FAIR, of course when Michonne is not around.

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2 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

Agree with that too. He is a good actor - better than most on this show - as well as being a very talented impressionist. How I'd love to see him impersonate Rick at his most obnoxious "Ricktator" monologuing persona for the amusement of others - maybe at the FAIR, of course when Michonne is not around.

agreed, those 60 seconds impressions he does??? friggin amazing. and if he can bring that talent to a slow moving WD character, just wowzer. he can run away with the lead roles.

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44 minutes ago, maystone said:

I think what with all of the time jumps that have happened the Heath boat has sailed, although they could probably make a case for him showing up in the movies. That would be cool. 

If those movies ever get made I will eat Carl's hat.  I won't even wash it first.

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10 hours ago, 3jt said:

Aren't they supposed to be in Virginia? There are actual seasons there. There would be snow. Maybe I missed it when they went back to the South.......... Hell, I don't know any more

Haha yes, story-wise they're supposed to be in Virginia, but I can't ignore the fact in the back of my head that really, it's Georgia. And it screams "hello, we're stuck in Georgia, because the scenery between season 1 and season whatever-the-fuck we're on now hasn't changed one bit." 

Also it conveniently never fucking snows. Yellow snow might be a good way to track other non-zombies in the winter. Ooh, I just imagined a "chase" scene where they run onto a frozen lake to get away from the super fast zombies (oh, wait) and then the zombies can slip and slide around and hilarity will ensue!

Edited by MVFrostsMyPie
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11 hours ago, MVFrostsMyPie said:

Ooh, I just imagined a "chase" scene where they run onto a frozen lake to get away from the super fast zombies (oh, wait) and then the zombies can slip and slide around and hilarity will ensue!

All to the tune of 'Yakkety Sax'!

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13 hours ago, MVFrostsMyPie said:

Ooh, I just imagined a "chase" scene where they run onto a frozen lake to get away from the super fast zombies (oh, wait) and then the zombies can slip and slide around and hilarity will ensue!

2 hours ago, mightysparrow said:

All to the tune of 'Yakkety Sax'!

Please GOD somebody tell me there’s a Benny Hill clip somewhere with zombie bodies superimposed on the cops....  😄

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On 3/12/2019 at 1:39 AM, Nashville said:

North stairwell.  Take half.  Leave them no way out.

...immediately after which, Beta headed to the other stairwell with two other Whisperers - presumably constituting the other half of their hunting party. 

I understood that to mean "take half" of the herd. While I can't verify if there were 6 or more in their hunting party... I didn't read that instruction the same way you did.

Also, I cannot adequately express how much I loved Carol's expression when she asked the Highwaymen how long it's been since they've seen a movie. It was SO adorable - made even more adorable by my knowledge that she's a stone cold, effective, killing machine. I could re-watch that scene over and over again. I have no issue with how or why the Highwaymen showed up... I got the impression that as 'highway men', they've been moving around from place to place by way of the highway and taking tolls from any small groups they passed along the way. I, too, am thrilled that we've finally met "normal" survivors who can be cutthroat and suspicious, but also reasonable.

I think the Whisperers, in general, are a stupid premise - it's a dumb way to live and STILL doesn't make any sense at all. How are they eating and getting clean water? Why aren't they being attacked when they're arguing and viciously whispering in the midst of their herds? I mean, Lydia wasn't even "dressed" as a zombie and she was just "shuffling" along with them all willy nilly. How is that working? And if they're so pleased with being turned into a Guardian, why don't they all just allow themselves to be bitten? So dumb.

But Daryl and Connie made up for their stupidity. I enjoyed them together.

The humor was well placed and much needed - I'm on board for some more of that.

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On 3/12/2019 at 4:41 AM, heisenberg said:

Except for stealing a sword they have done nothing wrong,  so I am glad that they are onboard.

Well they did leave Jerry with a bloody face, so there must be a question mark as to what type of people they really are,  I hope they do turn out to be something different and do integrate with the communities.

My only problem was the way they were introduced, I personally didn’t find it humorous, I also didn’t think it fitted in with the episode, or the show in general, it was more suited to an episode of Z Nation.

As with everything it’s a case of each to their own, so let’s hope they turn out to be more than a nice, juicy bunch of red shirts.

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1 hour ago, marcee said:

I think the Whisperers, in general, are a stupid premise - it's a dumb way to live and STILL doesn't make any sense at all. How are they eating and getting clean water? Why aren't they being attacked when they're arguing and viciously whispering in the midst of their herds? I mean, Lydia wasn't even "dressed" as a zombie and she was just "shuffling" along with them all willy nilly. How is that working? And if they're so pleased with being turned into a Guardian, why don't they all just allow themselves to be bitten? So dumb.

Yep, yep. I think it might be better to just dismiss it all with "So dumb" and not question it. Nothing about this makes one iota of sense. I'd like to know how they live like bare-subsistence nomads, yet remain so well-fed, but yeah, so dumb. Next.

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Sidebar: There are no cats in the Zombie Apocalypse because they've all been eaten by humans... not zombies.

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I have a soft spot for Tara.  I don't know why.  Maybe it is because she is so disliked.

At least I feel like I know who Tara is. She was introduced with an actual backstory and family. I know where she comes from. I can't say that about most of the current cast anymore. They just don't devote any effort whatever to developing characters in a way that makes me care about any of them. Luke? Connie? Magna? Kelly? Who the hell are these people? They just wandered in this season and I'm supposed to give a damn about them? Why? They could all die tomorrow and I wouldn't care at all.  

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22 hours ago, candall said:

She has a ball-point now--which requires me to get up, stomp over and squint at the damn screen.

Then why is it squeaking like she's writing with a magic marker? Sound effects fail?

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3 hours ago, marcee said:

I understood that to mean "take half" of the herd. While I can't verify if there were 6 or more in their hunting party... I didn't read that instruction the same way you did.

Okay - so I went back and counted, and I was wrong; there were seven Whisperers in the hunt pack, not six.  

In order of neutralization:

  1. Whisperer taken out by Henry (staff) - down and definitely unconscious, but maybe not dead.
  2. Whisperer killed by Connie (slingshot).
  3. Whisperer killed by Daryl (axe).
  4. Whisperer killed by Henry (staff), with Dog assist.
  5. Whisperer killed by Connie (knife to back) - this was the dark-haired Whisperer leading the north stairwell group.
  6. Whisperer killed by Daryl (knife to throat).
  7. Beta taken out by Daryl (elevator shaft) - down, not dead.

I’d previously thought Whisperer #4 was Whisperer #1 after having regained consciousness; #1 and #2 came in through a side door by Henry, though, while #4 and #5 snuck in behind Connie (while she was still slingshot-covering the area where she’d disposed of #2).

So Daryl (and I) were off by one; still not too shabby, considering. 🙂

Edited by Nashville · Reason: Typo
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9 minutes ago, Nashville said:

Okay - so I went back and counted, and I was wrong

Thank you for subjecting yourself to a rewatch so we don't have to.

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2 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

Thank you for subjecting yourself to a rewatch so we don't have to.

Wasn’t too bad.  I FF’ed to the fight scene, which was one of the better parts.  And I rewound/replayed Henry getting stabbed in the leg (with the stick he’d sharpened for Lydia, no less) several times, which was fun.

Worst part, though?  A specific part of the Daryl/Bubba fight scene.  Daryl and Beta are going at it, each with a knife in both hands - until Bubba up and kicks Daryl square in the chest, knocking Daryl flat and CAUSING DARYL TO DROP/LOSE BOTH OF HIS KNIVES.

So that should be it for Daryl, right - flat on his back, totally disarmed, with a 6’4” SOA reject from Hell standing over him with two wicked long pigstickers?  We’re about to be served up an entree of Daryl fricassee, right?  Right?

BUT WAIT!!!  Very next thing we see is Beta grabbing Daryl OPEN-HANDED to throw him around some.  Whaaaat - Beta wanted soooo badly to play with his new Raggedy Daryl doll that he just... dropped his knives???  Or put them away???

Give me a great big freakin’ take-a-flying-fuck-at-a-rolling-donut break.  :[ 

Edited by Nashville · Reason: Correcting fucking autocorrect
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7 minutes ago, Nashville said:

 Whaaaat - Beta wanted soooo badly to play with his new Raggedy Daryl doll that he just... dropped his knives???  Or put them away???

And you act all surprised, after we watched Negan on a trolly, trussed up like a Christmas turkey but then magically had both a gun and a stick of dynamite (or a flare? Doesn't matter) that manifested out of thin air in a way that would impress Professor Snape? When little brat Henry is in a tree hollow with a mess of zombies grabbing at him and never got even a scratch? When Daryl got the daylights beaten and kicked out of him by the Merletones AND the Saviors and casually walked away? When Rick was impaled through and through on rusty rebar, yet could get up and walk/ride for miles? I won't go on.

Okay, but seriously: If they wanted Daryl to remain unscathed after this fight with the big monster, they should have made Lurch lose his weapons before that moment, but I guess TPTB are too busy high-fiving each other to see such glaring, non-sensical bullshit taking place. Or maybe they do see it all and find no fault.

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5 hours ago, marcee said:

Sidebar: There are no cats in the Zombie Apocalypse because they've all been eaten by humans... not zombies.

A dog would probably provide more meat, plus they follow you everywhere so easier to hunt. 👍🏼

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On 3/14/2019 at 6:37 AM, lu1535 said:

Henry's pouting lips are driving me insane...........................not in a good way.

Oh, great.  Now something that I have never noticed before is going to preoccupy my mind every time I see that douchecanoe on screen.

Edited by icemiser69
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3 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Oh, great.  Now something that I have never noticed before is going to preoccupy my mind every time I see that douchecanoe on screen.

Is a douchecanoe what you use to paddle up Shit Creek?

😉

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Do we have any idea how old Henry is supposed to be?

We do know that Carol sent him to Hilltop to become a blacksmith.  We also know that Daryl is supposed to watch over him.  What I don't understand is why Carol didn't stay with Henry at Hilltop, since she has decided to raise the kid.  It isn't as though she is doing all that much at Kingdom.

If Henry isn't going to learn how to be a blacksmith then Daryl ought to send Henry back to Carol.  We haven't seen Henry at his apprentice "job" since he got busted for being drunk.

Edited by icemiser69
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29 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

We do know that Carol sent him to Hilltop to become a blacksmith.

Well, if you had that annoying, pouty twerp hanging around your house, wouldn't you use even the flimsiest excuse to get rid of him?

30 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

We haven't seen Henry at his apprentice "job" since he got busted for being drunk.

We haven't seen him do one thing that's useful - nothing besides bug people, sit in jail, get out, be a nuisance, get in the way, and bug more people. He is a blight on our screens.

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9 hours ago, Nashville said:

Is a douchecanoe what you use to paddle up Shit Creek?

😉

Geographically challenged, aren't we?  ;~)

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On 3/15/2019 at 10:16 PM, walnutqueen said:

Geographically challenged, aren't we?  ;~)

Well... they may be different towns, but they ARE in the same county....

Edited by Nashville
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On the rewatch, Daryl and Connie actually do have a good idea. Instead of "Run away from small group of whisperers, then deal with them plus larger group later," they went for "We have Lydia, and you know we have Lydia, so we're gonna go up into a high-rise siege situation." If Alpha didn't obviously want Lydia back alive, it would be a death trap. The whisperers could just drag in a bunch of firewood and smoke those upstairs to death. But under those particular circumstances, it was a rare opportunity to eliminate some of the enemies' top fighters. Oh, the plan sure as hell didn't go perfectly. But compared, to... oh, I don't know... let's say... a Rick plan? Daryl Is fucking killing it!

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On ‎3‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 8:34 AM, theredhead77 said:

I know I'm one of the few who watch TWD for enjoyment instead of hate watching and I loved this episode. I don't read comics and stay out of spoilers except to make sure Dog doesn't die (CTRL F dog does wonders in the spoiler thread) so I sure hope the Highwaymen aren't going to double cross the Kingdom or any of the communities. The vibe I get is they are doing what they do to survive the Saviors and those sorts of groups. We've only seen the groups in the area this crew is at. Maybe they came from Texas or TN or somewhere else and encountered other gangs along the way.

I can totally see Darryl remaining single by choice. He had a horrible childhood it seemed his early adult years started off rough too. Some people are just better off single. Men and women can be friends without a brother /sister relationship. They can just!be!friends!, period. Connie would be a good match for Darryl. She's strong, independant and doesn't take his shit. If you go by the actors age she is age appropriate - there is a 9 year gap between their ages. At 40 dating someone who is 50 isn't that big of a deal, especially after you spent the last 10 years in the ZA and pop culture, etc... no longer matters.

I didn't realize she was that old. She's the sister of Angel Theory's character who doesn't look older than 20, so I assumed she was closer to her sister's age.  This sort of paralell's the Beth character/actress. She was playing a teen, but nearly 30.

I've never stanned for anyone on this show. I don't watch soap operas and I'm not into it. That said, even I could see that there was some chemistry between the actors (Carol/Daryl) in their scenes together. I don't know if it was on the actor's part, or if it was just a byproduct of their scenes together, but it was an obvious thing picked on and commented about ad nauseum, in the first few years of the show.

The writers then chose to ignore it. They could have taken it any way they wanted, since Daryl is nonexistent in the comic and Carol was killed off. They didn't though, and instead chose to make the relationship one that put Carol into the motherly category. I've read over, also ad nauseum, that the Daryl actor insisted that he wanted to play Daryl as asexual because there aren't any other characters like his, that  have been kept asexual.  Maybe he was just afraid of his rabid fans? Who knows? 

Anyway, I could give a shit who he's paired up with or if he is paired up, period. Except for this.  I do think more women are sick of seeing male characters who are paired up with women much younger than them, and while 9 years is not too much younger, it is younger than the character probably should have been paired up with the character he should have, if there wasn't such a sexist and ageist thing against women in casting love interests for male characters, by large, and that is gross. 

They teased a sexual relationship between Daryl and Hershell's  youngest teenage daughter, even though the actor was nearly 30, and that was gross of them. If people bitched about that then, it's understandable. More understandable than with Connie, but there is still a context to all of this, and  times have changed. The Connie actress might look younger than her actual age, but the Daryl actor looks older than his. And that matters in the real world, if not the soap opera that this show has turned into.

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On ‎3‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 1:41 PM, AngelaHunter said:

His original, "Stupid bitch" and "Olive Oyl" gave me such hope for an interesting, quirky character, but he quickly fizzled out to silent sidekick, with all personality removed.

Daryl's dialogue there was written by assholes who were giving the asshole commenters a voice on Carol and Lori.  Although I did laugh at the Olive Oyl line, because they had been pushing Lori as a sex symbol and that diffused it.

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On ‎3‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 4:07 PM, lezlers said:

I don't disagree and I'm not trying to go off topic, here.  But page after page of nothing but "this show is so stupid, I hate it.  I'm never watching it again!!" gets old after a while.  My point is merely that it's nice to see some positive opinions on here.  It's not an argument, it's an observation.

I used to say the same thing you did. When the show had a shred of hope attached to it. 

But it really is actually worse reading how convoluted a lot of people have to get in their reasoning, all in vain, to service a show that passed it's fresh date long ago, and which has never gotten better. 

But again, since this is only entertainment, YMMV.

Edited by Butless
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On ‎3‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 4:32 PM, icemiser69 said:

It would be kind of useless in the dark.  Maybe Connie can dip her hands in glow in the dark paint?

She can write with Sparklers. 

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8 hours ago, Butless said:

I didn't realize she was that old. She's the sister of Angel Theory's character who doesn't look older than 20, so I assumed she was closer to her sister's age.  This sort of paralell's the Beth character/actress. She was playing a teen, but nearly 30.

I don't see any parallels to Beth and never got the impression Connie is playing a teen. She seems to be in her mid-late 30s, close to her actual age.

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I think Connie and Michonne should switch roles. Michonne can go help Daryl fight Beta, and Connie can guard Negan. It would drive him absolutely batshit, having somebody just sit there reading a book while he tries to monologue at them.

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On 3/17/2019 at 8:53 PM, CletusMusashi said:

On the rewatch, Daryl and Connie actually do have a good idea. Instead of "Run away from small group of whisperers, then deal with them plus larger group later," they went for "We have Lydia, and you know we have Lydia, so we're gonna go up into a high-rise siege situation." If Alpha didn't obviously want Lydia back alive, it would be a death trap. The whisperers could just drag in a bunch of firewood and smoke those upstairs to death. But under those particular circumstances, it was a rare opportunity to eliminate some of the enemies' top fighters. Oh, the plan sure as hell didn't go perfectly. But compared, to... oh, I don't know... let's say... a Rick plan? Daryl Is fucking killing it!

Which ought to piss off the other Whisperers.  Why should her child be so valuable and reclaimed, and yet someone else is basically told to lay their baby down in a field and let the walkers eat that baby as if it is nothing more than walker chow?

Edited by icemiser69
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On ‎3‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 6:29 PM, icemiser69 said:

Aaron is an underutilized character. 

So was Jesus and look what they did to him *goes off into a corner to sob quietly*

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