S02.E08: Identity, Part I

[welnoc]

19 minutes ago, benteen said:

Not a surprise the Union would be caught unawares like this considering their complete lack of research prior to a first contact.

Can you call it a first contact when the Kaylons and the Union have been communicating and there's a Kaylon serving on a Union ship?

I've started wondering now about Isaac's seeming skirting of the issue when asked about his homeworld. It could be because he was aware of the plot all the time or because he went to the Union with stripped of any knowledge of the plot so that all he had to offer was basic facts. I want it to be the latter so much!

I too heard Isaac referred to as "prime" and I'm wondering which definition of the word is meant.

It's going to be a long week!

Edited February 22, 2019 by welnoc
grammar

[SimoneS]

Thinking about last night, Ty was right when he insisted that Isaac had emotions. The Kaylons must have reprogrammed him. I think Ty and Marcus were able to evade capture. Maybe they will be able to get weapons to the bridge crew so they can fight back. Isaac seeing the children in danger might override his new programming so that he saves the day. Btw, Marcus and Ty are the cutest kids.

Poor Bortus. He didn't get his corner piece with the flower.

8 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

During the party, it looked like Klyden was looking at Bortus a little apprehensively, while Bortus just ignored him. Maybe the fight from last episode is still smoldering? Maybe all of this will bring them back together, and Klyden will see that hating people based on something organic and genetic is really...stupid? 

I prefer that Bortus come to the realization that he doesn't love Klyden any more or that he doesn't want to be married to him any more.

[Emma9]

11 hours ago, welnoc said:

When Alara was in that disaster scenario thing, evil Isaac had red lights so as soon as I saw all those red Kaylons, I thought, "Uh, oh."

That was my first thought too. Guessing that the Kaylons already knew about the human (and presumably Xeleyan) tendency to see red as a danger color and deliberately fitted Isaac out otherwise so he'd seem less threatening, and he used the same rationale to reverse it for the simulation.

(I guess she's just lucky he didn't break out the phaser eyelashes too.)

~

Well, considering there wouldn't be a show if the Union were to be as utterly toast as it should be, the possibilities I can think of:

1. Isaac saves the day (though as one individual vs however many hundreds/thousands of Kaylons there are in the attack force, it'd take a heckuva deus ex machina unless he just convinces the Primary they should desist.

2. It actually is a test/simulation.

3. Waaaay out-there, but how many reappearance cycles has Planet Kelly-Worshippers gone through by now? They might be at a technological level near or beyond Kaylon's.

Edited February 22, 2019 by Emma9

[rmontro]

Well, that was quite the turn...

Early on, I was thinking that it was funny that the Kaylon was throwing human history in Ed's face, basically saying "Your culture sucks", just as the humans were looking down on Moclan culture last week.

If the Moclans are going to become the Klingons, then apparently the Kaylon's are the Borg.  Complete with catchphrase:  "Co=existance is impossible".

I really hope this isn't just a test by the Kaylons.  It might make sense, but it would really be a copout.  Besides, how is the Union supposed to act after finding all those mass graveyards?  And while maybe it was dumb to confront them with it, there probably wasn't much choice.  It's doubtful they could have escaped under the circumstances.

Odd how only Isaac's eyes are blue.  My guess is something will happen so that he will end up remaining with the crew.  If not, this show is getting to be like the new Walking Dead:  First we lose Alara, now we lose Isaac.  But I expect he'll stick around.

[Ottis]

9 hours ago, tv-talk said:

What I fully expect tho is for Isaac to save the day thru whatever affect humans loving him is supposed to have.

Oh yeah, this is where it is headed. One clue is the ep title, "Identity." As in, who is Isaac, really? The lesson will be that, because of his exposure to humans, he is now much more than what he was. because ... humans are great!  And ... it is a story we have seen a dozen times on ST.

2 hours ago, kariyaki said:

The events of the last five minutes of the episode made me forget how hilarious it was that Isaac gave Sally Field’s Oscar speech at his going-away party.

I wondered how many people recognized that. Orville actually handled that subtly ... there was no "you really, really like me!" I was mostly annoyed once again, though, because this show is hundreds of years in the future, and Issac comes up with yet another 80s/90s pop culture reference ... on the heels of an Air Supply song no less.

2 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

All the Kaylons look alike.  It may just be a simple way to distinguish Isaac from the rest of them.

Yeah, it's that, and I think the color may mean something about their current programmed role. Red for defense, blue for science/info gathering, and i thought I saw a yellow but I don't know what they are doing. BTW, I think their lights can change color depending on the current assignment.

Edited February 22, 2019 by Ottis

[Ottis]

7 minutes ago, rmontro said:

I really hope this isn't just a test by the Kaylons.  It might make sense, but it would really be a copout.  Besides, how is the Union supposed to act after finding all those mass graveyards? 

I actually would be please if Seth would even try this kind of twist, so that at least something is unpredictable. the bones could be handwaved as props or whatever.

[mammaM]

Wow, just, wow.

Ironically, I was telling hubby that I like this show but it seems like it's not sure if it's "light hearted parody sci-fi" or "heavy duty 'real' sci-fi". So much for the light hearted parody. Gotta give Seth credit for keeping things interesting. Let's see what happens next week. 

[rmontro]

43 minutes ago, Ottis said:

I wondered how many people recognized that. Orville actually handled that subtly ... there was no "you really, really like me!" I was mostly annoyed once again, though, because this show is hundreds of years in the future, and Issac comes up with yet another 80s/90s pop culture reference ... on the heels of an Air Supply song no less.

Ha!  I forgot about the Sally Field Oscar speech reference, I was going to mention that.  

The 80/90s pop culture references are pretty silly, but I just figure they go along with the comedy part of the show, so they don't bother me.

[jumper sage]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

Poor Bortus. He didn't get his corner piece with the flower.

Quick, someone give that man a corner piece with a flower - it is the best of extra frosting.

58 minutes ago, Ottis said:

I wondered how many people recognized that. Orville actually handled that subtly ... there was no "you really, really like me!" I was mostly annoyed once again, though, because this show is hundreds of years in the future, and Issac comes up with yet another 80s/90s pop culture reference ... on the heels of an Air Supply song no less.

But they are always going on about the database of former pop culture.  It fit right in with me.

1 hour ago, Emma9 said:

2. It actually is a test/simulation.

I was thinking the same thing.

This is my favorite show now, sci-fi with humor and drama.

Edited February 22, 2019 by jumper sage

[rmontro]

That scene where Isaac was looking at the picture Ty drew, then dropped it on the floor kind of bugged me.  Obviously it was meant for dramatic purposes, and it was a cold move, but it brings up all kinds of questions.

Wouldn't he have deposited it in some sort of trash receptacle?  I could buy that the floor is regularly automatically cleaned, but if that is the case, why don't we see crew members chucking stuff on the floor all the time?  On the other hand, this is evil Isaac, so of course he's a litterbug.

[iMonrey]

I commented last week that this show is better when it sticks to action-adventure fare, and this episode reinforces my opinion. Nice twist at the end, and I was looking at the clock thinking "no way this gets wrapped up in the next five minutes."

I will say, however, that if the Kaylons are this much of an unknown to humans, it seems foolish to have accepted Isaac as a crew member. It's a rather obvious suspicion he might be sent to collect intel on them to use against them. I think this might have worked better if the Kaylons were actually a member of the Union and had just been able to keep secret their origins (and the heaps of skeletons).

Also, while the visuals in this episode were very striking, some of the scenery shown through the viewport when they were first approaching the city were rather obviously drawings. Ornate, well-done drawings but still drawings. That distracted me a little. 

[Yeah No]

Wow, I guess I'm in the minority in that this episode didn't surprise me at all.  Not one bit.  I wondered right away what the Kaylons had done with the sentient beings that once inhabited their planet, because we all know

a) that they had to be created by someone sentient originally, and

b) because it's the tired old sci-fi trope that the AI beings take over their world of origin and destroy the sentient beings.  There are movies and other TV shows that have done this.  I know I've seen them.

I admit, though, that I was surprised by the fact that they kept all those bones.  One wonders why they didn't destroy any "evidence".

I also think I can predict what's going to happen in the next episode.  Just in case, I'm putting it under a spoiler:

Spoiler

Simon is going to redeem himself and do something to rescue the Orville.  He will show that he has been forever changed by his time with humans, specifically Dr. Finn, and realize how evil the actions of his species are.  We already know he has claimed to have grown accustomed to her.  Something in there is different and he is no longer like the rest of his ilk, to his credit.  Like Data, he will become more "human", but in a good way.  Shades of Hugh, the Borg, too.

And oh yeah, I caught the Sally Field reference, LOL.

Edited February 22, 2019 by Yeah No

[rmontro]

46 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I will say, however, that if the Kaylons are this much of an unknown to humans, it seems foolish to have accepted Isaac as a crew member.

Let's face it, the humans don't appear to know anything about any of the aliens that they are allied with.

12 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Wow, I guess I'm in the minority in that this episode didn't surprise me at all.  Not one bit.  I wondered right away what the Kaylons had done with the sentient beings that once inhabited their planet

I think you were ahead of the curve on this one.  I know I didn't see this coming.  I hadn't really thought about the Kaylons' creators.  For all I knew, the creators Wall-E'd themselves to death.

[Ubiquitous]

5 hours ago, kariyaki said:

The events of the last five minutes of the episode made me forget how hilarious it was that Isaac gave Sally Field’s Oscar speech at his going-away party.

I wondered if that was what he used!

36 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Wow, I guess I'm in the minority in that this episode didn't surprise me at all.  Not one bit.  I wondered right away what the Kaylons had done with the sentient beings that once inhabited their planet, because we all know

a) that they had to be created by someone sentient originally, and

b) because it's the tired old sci-fi trope that the AI beings take over their world of origin and destroy the sentient beings.  There are movies and other TV shows that have done this.  I know I've seen them.

I thought it would be:

c) they used to be biological beings that had become inorganic a long time ago and maybe they kept the remains around for sentimental reasons before losing the ability to emote.

[rmontro]

36 minutes ago, Ubiquitous said:

I thought it would be:

c) they used to be biological beings that had become inorganic a long time ago and maybe they kept the remains around for sentimental reasons before losing the ability to emote.

I would tell you that you were way off.  But if this is a test on the Kaylon's part, who knows, you might end up right after all lol.

[Chaos Theory]

I had a weird thought.  Considering how politically aware Seth MacFarlane is and with all the terrible awful things that The Orville has to deal with I can see The Union going into a phase of Human nationalism.  Of course The Orville with its heavily alien crew won’t be particularly fond of the idea but it will make things interesting for the non human crew members.

Just a thought for next season.

[Ottis]

3 hours ago, rmontro said:

The 80/90s pop culture references are pretty silly, but I just figure they go along with the comedy part of the show, so they don't bother me.

Here's the part that bothers me: These pop culture choices feel like things Seth wants to include, like his Family Guy gags. And because they are so specific to a very short era, they take me out of the show every time. Even ST TOS would give you a list of, say, tyrants in history, and it would be Ghengis Khan, Jack the Ripper, Nazi Germany and then General Green from beta 7 and some other made up one. You would still be in the story.

I can't even argue that it's just humor, because clearly aside from an occasional joke, Orville is really going for ST-like drama (and plots). In this ep, other than the Bortus cake and Air Supply song, was there any humor? So if the show itself wants to be taken seriously, then it needs to think about how to do that. And jokes every episode about pop culture from 1980 to 1990 doesn't help. It could so easily be addressed ... but I think Seth likes it, so it isn't. And now we are back where I started.

I'm waiting for Bortus to discover Miami Vice and start dressing like Sonny Crockett.

Edited February 22, 2019 by Ottis

[Ubiquitous]

51 minutes ago, Ottis said:

Here's the part that bothers me: These pop culture choices feel like things Seth wants to include, like his Family Guy gags. And because they are so specific to a very short era, they take me out of the show every time. Even ST TOS would give you a list of, say, tyrants in history, and it would be Ghengis Khan, Jack the Ripper, Nazi Germany and then General Green from beta 7 and some other made up one. You would still be in the story.

I don't remember who it was, but a long time ago, a standup comedian on David Letter's show on NBC called it something like the "trilogy of history" and how they'd include two historical example and a third one from the future (to us) when they wanted gravitas.

[chaifan]

14 hours ago, Andromeda said:

So the Kaylon are worse than the Borg. Why do they have to wipe out Earth, if they've outgrown their planet? Go find an uninhabited berg to live on. They don't even have our dietary or oxygen requirements, so the galaxy is their oyster! And if they are so so smart, they ought to be able to terraform if they really need it.

This is my question, too.  Why are the Kaylon going after Earth?  If they've out grown their planet it's a lot of work to wipe out the entire population, tear down all existing structures and then build new places.  (Seriously, where would you put a planet's worth of construction debris?)  And it's not like Earth is the most powerful planet that has to be defeated first from a military "we're taking over the entire galaxy" strategy.  It makes no sense.  And how do AI "outgrow" a place that seemingly still has a lot of space?  They don't need buildings with giant empty lobbies, or courtyards big enough to land a spaceship in.  Every AI could presumably survive in the space of an office cubicle. 

I didn't think the Kalon killed the Orville crew - I saw the weapons as a hard stun.  No blood on anyone, just motionless bodies.  But it seems like everyone else here saw them all as dead. 

I generally liked the episode because of this huge twist, but I wished they explained a bit of the Kaylon motivation because it really just didn't make any sense at all.  I'm not on the "it's all just a test" train, either.  I wouldn't be too sad if Isaac is done as a character - I don't think he really brings anything to the table anymore.  But I wouldn't be surprised if he has a change of heart/program and saves the day in the end.  I'm avoiding IMDB because I don't want to see if Isaac is in one more episodes or the rest of the season, as that would just spoil it. 

[The Kings Foot]

9 minutes ago, chaifan said:

T I'm avoiding IMDB because I don't want to see if Isaac is in one more episodes or the rest of the season, as that would just spoil it. 

IMDB is no better than any fansite.  It has no official connections to anything

[Bort]

16 minutes ago, chaifan said:

I didn't think the Kalon killed the Orville crew - I saw the weapons as a hard stun.  No blood on anyone, just motionless bodies.  But it seems like everyone else here saw them all as dead. 

The struck Orville crew members had burn marks on their uniforms, I think that’s why the assumption that the Kaylons were shooting to kill. 

[Ottis]

14 minutes ago, chaifan said:

This is my question, too.  Why are the Kaylon going after Earth?  If they've out grown their planet it's a lot of work to wipe out the entire population, tear down all existing structures and then build new places. 

I got the impression that this is more of a Nomad-type, "Humans are imperfect and must be destroyed" kind of thing. Given how many times we have heard Isaac, or someone else, state how the Kaylon are superior life forms and everyone else is inferior, that seems logical.

If that is the case, the better question is: Why *only* Earth? There are a number of species on Orville. I guess Isaac's assignment was to study humans specifically; maybe he didn't pay much attention to others. But that's pretty weak. It would have made more sense for the Kaylon to say they were going after Earth, Moclon, whatever Yaphit is, the security person's planet and one or two other visible species. Then all of those planets could band together to fight the Kaylon in an epic war.

But since I'm pretty sure Isaac will stop it because he wuvs humans and kids, none of that will matter.

19 minutes ago, chaifan said:

I generally liked the episode because of this huge twist, but I wished they explained a bit of the Kaylon motivation because it really just didn't make any sense at all.  I'm not on the "it's all just a test" train, either.

I don't know about it being a twist, it was pretty telegraphed. But you are right in that it was sloppy. That's Orville, though. *This close* to being really good, and not quite getting there.

[The Kings Foot]

14 hours ago, SmithW6079 said:

It seemed (to me at least) that in the scene when we overhear the Kaylons decide among themselves that a decision has been made, they addressed Issac as "Primary." 

Watched it over. Youre right.  A possible hint that Isaac was never released and it was Primary masquerading as him. 

[AppleCore]

"This is probably going to cause cancer" is so what I would be thinking seeing that scanner.

I loved Sally Field's speech and Bortus wanting a corner piece. I'm hoping we can recover Isaac for the crew.

But that ending, dang. I was right back to the Borg taking Picard and heading to Earth. I'm so glad we don't have to wait all summer to see what happens.

Spoiler

I don't have a spoiler, just a spoiled cat who added this spoiler bar. I don't know how to get rid of it. Sorry 🙂

[Yeah No]

What I want to know is how Finn's son got down to the planet by himself.  Did he pilot his own shuttle?

[Bort]

3 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

What I want to know is how Finn's son got down to the planet by himself.  Did he pilot his own shuttle?

The whole ship had landed on the planet. They were going through a door. I did think there should at least have been security stationed at the door to prevent the exact thing from happening: keeping the crews' nosy civilian relatives from wandering outside.

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, Ubiquitous said:

I don't remember who it was, but a long time ago, a standup comedian on David Letter's show on NBC called it something like the "trilogy of history" and how they'd include two historical example and a third one from the future (to us) when they wanted gravitas.

I believe it was Jay Leno. The joke was like, "Our greatest philosophers: Socrates...Plato...and of course, [Blah-blah blah of Altair IV"

5 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

What I want to know is how Finn's son got down to the planet by himself.  Did he pilot his own shuttle?

The Orville was on a landing pad attached to the planet, or at least to a structure off the planet. So all he had to do was go through two of the airlocks and he was on the structure. Now, how an 8-year-old could do that in general, let alone without the Orville or the Kaylon realizing it, is not so easily explained.

[EllenB]

1 hour ago, AppleCore said:

"This is probably going to cause cancer" is so what I would be thinking seeing that scanner.

I loved Sally Field's speech and Bortus wanting a corner piece. I'm hoping we can recover Isaac for the crew.

But that ending, dang. I was right back to the Borg taking Picard and heading to Earth. I'm so glad we don't have to wait all summer to see what happens.

  Hide contents

I don't have a spoiler, just a spoiled cat who added this spoiler bar. I don't know how to get rid of it. Sorry 🙂

Damn, it won't let me hit like and laugh together!

All these years later, and I'm still having mental arguments with myself over which is creepier, the Borg or the Dominion.  I need a life.  Ooh, here it is, The Orville!

[ratgirlagogo]

19 hours ago, AD35 said:

Wow, I'll repeat it, I did not see that one coming.  Even there was no "Resistance is futile" uttered by the Kaylons, the final scenes of the Orville being boarded and the armada did give me  "The Best of Both Worlds" vibes.

I didn't see it coming either.  Even though I made the Terminator connection two episodes ago:

Quote

  ON 2/1/2019 AT 1:22 AM, ANDROMEDA SAID:

At first I was like whuuu? With the relationship. But I think I get it. Not only has he saved her family, he's attentive to her children, a calming influence, a great sounding board, never intentionally hurtful, mean, or short-tempered. He'll never feel neglected if she has to work long hours. He listens to her and remembers what she tells him. Hey, he's almost the ideal boyfriend! 

Kind of like what Sarah Connor said in Terminator 2:

  QUOTE

Watching John with the machine, it was suddenly so clear. The terminator, would never stop. It would never leave him, and it would never hurt him, never shout at him, or get drunk and hit him, or say it was too busy to spend time with him. It would always be there. And it would die, to protect him. Of all the would-be fathers who came and went over the years, this thing, this machine, was the only one who measured up. In an insane world, it was the sanest choice.

I didn't think Skynet becoming self-aware would be the plotline.  In this case it's not the Borg's"Resistance is futile" or the Cybermen's "you will be deleted", since it doesn't seem that the Kaylon's want to absorb and redesign the humans.   The policy seems more like  the Daleks' EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE.

[shapeshifter]

9 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Btw, Marcus and Ty are the cutest kids.

When Ty's mom kissed his perfectly round cheek, I melted.

I was thinking Ty's extended screen time in the beginning--searching for Isaac--was supposed to be representative of fatherless little boys (and girls) seeking a dad.

____________

6 hours ago, rmontro said:

That scene where Isaac was looking at the picture Ty drew, then dropped it on the floor kind of bugged me.  Obviously it was meant for dramatic purposes, and it was a cold move, but it brings up all kinds of questions.

Wouldn't he have deposited it in some sort of trash receptacle?  I could buy that the floor is regularly automatically cleaned, but if that is the case, why don't we see crew members chucking stuff on the floor all the time?  On the other hand, this is evil Isaac, so of course he's a litterbug.

I agree that Isaac dropping Ty's picture is some kind of clue.
Maybe pre-shutdown-Isaac's memory still resides within reconstituted Isaac and managed to get the drawing dropped in a place where it would be found by Ty.
Upthread, posters have questioned how Ty wound up seeing the cavern tombs--which would tip off the Orville crew that something was rotten on Kaylon.
The dropped drawing--especially with the camera lingering on it--might be a clue to the viewers that pre-shutdown-Isaac is directing Ty's steps.

___________________

2 hours ago, kariyaki said:

The struck Orville crew members had burn marks on their uniforms, I think that’s why the assumption that the Kaylons were shooting to kill. 

I assumed the Orville crew were struck down with kill shots because they were wearing red shirts. 

[ketose]

8 hours ago, Emma9 said:

That was my first thought too. Guessing that the Kaylons already knew about the human (and presumably Xeleyan) tendency to see red as a danger color and deliberately fitted Isaac out otherwise so he'd seem less threatening, and he used the same rationale to reverse it for the simulation.

(I guess she's just lucky he didn't break out the phaser eyelashes too.)

~

Well, considering there wouldn't be a show if the Union were to be as utterly toast as it should be, the possibilities I can think of:

1. Isaac saves the day (though as one individual vs however many hundreds/thousands of Kaylons there are in the attack force, it'd take a heckuva deus ex machina unless he just convinces the Primary they should desist.

2. It actually is a test/simulation.

3. Waaaay out-there, but how many reappearance cycles has Planet Kelly-Worshippers gone through by now? They might be at a technological level near or beyond Kaylon's.

Or there might be a Kelly cult even centuries later who comes to save her. The planet was already capable of teleportation, which is the cat's ass in terms of technology on the show. Plus, they had 700 years to examine Isaac. Maybe they were waiting for the off switch to mount a rescue mission.

6 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Wow, I guess I'm in the minority in that this episode didn't surprise me at all.  Not one bit.  I wondered right away what the Kaylons had done with the sentient beings that once inhabited their planet, because we all know

a) that they had to be created by someone sentient originally, and

b) because it's the tired old sci-fi trope that the AI beings take over their world of origin and destroy the sentient beings.  There are movies and other TV shows that have done this.  I know I've seen them.

I admit, though, that I was surprised by the fact that they kept all those bones.  One wonders why they didn't destroy any "evidence".

I also think I can predict what's going to happen in the next episode.  Just in case, I'm putting it under a spoiler:

  Reveal spoiler

Simon is going to redeem himself and do something to rescue the Orville.  He will show that he has been forever changed by his time with humans, specifically Dr. Finn, and realize how evil the actions of his species are.  We already know he has claimed to have grown accustomed to her.  Something in there is different and he is no longer like the rest of his ilk, to his credit.  Like Data, he will become more "human", but in a good way.  Shades of Hugh, the Borg, too.

And oh yeah, I caught the Sally Field reference, LOL.

I was thinking the Kaylons were either a collection of computers or technology left behind by a long departed civilization. The Kaylons are almost like the Replicators from Stargate.

[HunterHunted]

1 hour ago, kariyaki said:

The whole ship had landed on the planet. They were going through a door. I did think there should at least have been security stationed at the door to prevent the exact thing from happening: keeping the crews' nosy civilian relatives from wandering outside.

My exact thoughts were "this spaceship doesn't have childproof locks?!?!?!" Hopefully, there's some additional mechanism to stop civilians from airlocking themselves and others while the ship is underway.

4 hours ago, Ottis said:

Here's the part that bothers me: These pop culture choices feel like things Seth wants to include, like his Family Guy gags. And because they are so specific to a very short era, they take me out of the show every time. Even ST TOS would give you a list of, say, tyrants in history, and it would be Ghengis Khan, Jack the Ripper, Nazi Germany and then General Green from beta 7 and some other made up one. You would still be in the story.

I can't even argue that it's just humor, because clearly aside from an occasional joke, Orville is really going for ST-like drama (and plots). In this ep, other than the Bortus cake and Air Supply song, was there any humor? So if the show itself wants to be taken seriously, then it needs to think about how to do that. And jokes every episode about pop culture from 1980 to 1990 doesn't help. It could so easily be addressed ... but I think Seth likes it, so it isn't. And now we are back where I started.

I'm waiting for Bortus to discover Miami Vice and start dressing like Sonny Crockett.

The stereo joke was the one that pulled me out. I wished that they had gone with something like "your mom trying to install a holo-projector." It's a technology known to viewers, but the context is pretty similar to the recreational aspect of a stereo.

[Bort]

11 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

My exact thoughts were "this spaceship doesn't have childproof locks?!?!?!" Hopefully, there's some additional mechanism to stop civilians from airlocking themselves and others while the ship is underway.

The stereo joke was the one that pulled me out. I wished that they had gone with something like "your mom trying to install a holo-projector." It's a technology known to viewers, but the context is pretty similar to the recreational aspect of a stereo.

See, and I loved the stereo joke. Mostly because Admiral SpyDaddy’s reaction perfectly illustrated that he got the point Ed was making.

[rmontro]

17 hours ago, chaifan said:

I'm avoiding IMDB because I don't want to see if Isaac is in one more episodes or the rest of the season, as that would just spoil it. 

Or maybe Isaac is in the rest of the episodes, but the rest of the crew are not!

15 hours ago, ratgirlagogo said:

In this case it's not the Borg's"Resistance is futile" or the Cybermen's "you will be deleted", since it doesn't seem that the Kaylon's want to absorb and redesign the humans.   The policy seems more like  the Daleks' EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE.

The Kaylons said "Co-existance is impossible!".  I too that to be their catchphrase.

Edited February 23, 2019 by rmontro

[ketose]

17 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

My exact thoughts were "this spaceship doesn't have childproof locks?!?!?!" Hopefully, there's some additional mechanism to stop civilians from airlocking themselves and others while the ship is underway.

The stereo joke was the one that pulled me out. I wished that they had gone with something like "your mom trying to install a holo-projector." It's a technology known to viewers, but the context is pretty similar to the recreational aspect of a stereo.

You must have missed the part where it's a stereo holo projector that uses two projector units to make an even more realistic hologram.

Don't worry. No one saw that part.

[One4Sorrow2TooBad]

Wow, does this show blow the competition away or what?  Loved the song by Gordon and Bortus wanting that corner piece of cake. 😀 I'm pulling for Isaac to come through in the end. Wasn't it Gordon who said Bortus practically brought the Orville down when he got the ship's computer infected with a porn virus? Lol, maybe good ol' Bortus can lay some of that on the Kaylons.  Great episode and can't wait for next week's episode. 

[MissLucas]

As someone who always thought Isaac incredibly creepy and the Union incredibly stupid for giving him and the Kaylons complete access to their systems I found this episode oddly satisfying. I admit I was kinda rooting for a dark twist about Isaac for quite some time. But this won't turn into BSG and the unusual grimness won't last for more than one episode tops.  There will be twu luv and possibly even a redemption arc for Isaac.

[jumper sage]

5 hours ago, chaifan said:

I didn't think the Kalon killed the Orville crew - I saw the weapons as a hard stun.  No blood on anyone, just motionless bodies.  But it seems like everyone else here saw them all as dead. 

I noticed that and that is why I predict this is just a simulation.  I could be wrong.

1 hour ago, One4Sorrow2TooBad said:

Wasn't it Gordon who said Bortus practically brought the Orville down when he got the ship's computer infected with a porn virus? Lol, maybe good ol' Bortus can lay some of that on the Kaylons.  Great episode and can't wait for next week's episode

Would love to see the Kaylons get a porn virus.

[TVSpectator]

I liked this episode and I hope that the conclusion is just as good as this episode. My thoughts:

- The entire episode reminded me more of that one episode of Futurama where Fry and Leela were stuck on that robot planet. They even had a "we hate all biologicals" just like in Futurama. 

- Kaylons= Cylons. Of course, it makes sense. 

- my guess is that they are not going to allow Isaac to be full-on evil and/or not going to write him off. So, I would guess that at some point in the next episode he would help save The Orville and Union from his Kaylon brothers and may find a way to disconnect himself from his home planet. 

- For Orville standards, this episode really took a dark turn but it was really good as well. Like I was blown away by how things just developed and it was great.

[thuganomics85]

Well, then!

So, basically the Kaylons are really just this show's version of the Borg, only instead of assimilating everyone to their Collective, they just believe all biological life should be exterminated.  Creepy!  Actually, it being revealed they took out their creators actually reminded me of a sci-fi video game series called Mass Effect, where an alien race (called Quarians) created a species of artificial intelligence (called the Geth), and it ended with them getting almost wiped about by their creations.  That's the risk when dealing with robots, apparently!

Curious to see what this is going to mean with Isaac going forward.  While I suspect they'll go down a somewhat obvious route that he'll somehow discover he truly does care for the Orville crew and help save them, I just can't see how the crew (and, of course, Claire), will ever be able to look at him the same way again, as he didn't just simply turn on them now, but knew full well what his actual mission was, and willing lied to them about it.  Sure, again, he's a robot, so their is a difference to his reasoning compared to humans and other biological species, but that is still a betrayal I can't see them walking back.  I wonder what Seth MacFarlane has planned here.

Safe to say that it was a mainly straight episode, but I still liked the few humorous moments like Isaac delivering Sally Field's second Oscar speech, Ed and Kelly's faces when they realized that the "Mr. Potato Head" prank might come back to bite them ("We're so getting fired!"), and, of course, Bortus wanting that damn corner piece of cake.  That better be rectified next week!

Fun seeing Admiral Victor Garber again!

Really good cliffhanger and pretty great episode.  Out of all of the episodes, this really felt like the one that Seth wanted to prove that The Orville can stand along the side the actual Star Trek series, and I think it might be there (granted, it's not that hard to outshine Star Trek: Enterprise...)

[GustavMahler]

I just hope they have not written themselves into a corner where they use a reset circumstance, that minimizes or at worse, negates the events of the first part. I will lose a lot of faith in this show if it takes a cheap and easy way out.....

[Starchild]

The more I think about it, the more I believe the real Isaac is still deactivated back on the Kaylon planet.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, thuganomics85 said:

I just can't see how the crew (and, of course, Claire), will ever be able to look at him the same way again

I guess it's too late for it to be that the Kaylon humanoids actually killed off themselves with pollution.

[jumper sage]

1 hour ago, Starchild said:

The more I think about it, the more I believe the real Isaac is still deactivated back on the Kaylon planet.

Hmmmm.

Here is one reason I think it may be a simulation:  We know there are more than 3 kids on board.  We have seen the classroom. We only see Topa captured and we possibly see Marcus and Ty evade capture - but why the robots can't see a biological is quite another question......................anyways, we only saw 3 kids during the whole show.

[AppleCore]

I really hope they don't turn this into being just a hologram simulation/dream sequence/etc. On TNG, Data turned somewhat evil under his brother's influence. He came back around and the other crewmembers didn't shun him. It did add some depth to his character.  Also, Bender occasionally got  his programming tweaked around on Futurama. His crewmates still hung out with him, even though his primary goal was to "kill all humans".  So, I am looking forward to seeing how this resolves with Isaac.

I believe Ty was able to walk out the air locks because he was supposed to know better. Again, going back to TNG (such a Trekkie), there were no barriers to get onto the bridge because everyone was able to restrain themselves. They knew the rules and followed them.

I think the redshirts were killed. The Kaylons have no use for biologics, so they would probably not have a stun setting on their eyelash phasers. I'm a little surprised they didn't vaporize them. Less hassle than hauling bones downstairs. Maybe there are hatches on the surface they drop them through-- they were heaped pretty high. I have been thinking about this episode waaaay too much.

[ratgirlagogo]

6 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

So, basically the Kaylons are really just this show's version of the Borg, only instead of assimilating everyone to their Collective, they just believe all biological life should be exterminated.

They are this show's version of the Daleks, who believe all biological life should be exterminated.  EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE.  Eventually there came to be many twists about this on Dr Who, so I expect twists here too.

[HunterHunted]

6 hours ago, kariyaki said:

See, and I loved the stereo joke. Mostly because Admiral SpyDaddy’s reaction perfectly illustrated that he got the point Ed was making.

But would the Admiral's reaction have been any different if stereo had been substituted with some other technology that we know exists in the contemporary timeline of the Orville? Though it's not exactly the same, Futurama is proof that a show set in the future can make jokes about the past without being so obviously fixated on things in Earth's history and that you can just make stuff up about the future without losing the audience.

[rmontro]

11 hours ago, Starchild said:

The more I think about it, the more I believe the real Isaac is still deactivated back on the Kaylon planet.

It does seem like the real Isaac is being impersonated.  Although if the Kaylons are fully in control now, what is the point of continuing the ruse?  Also, if Isaac isn't on the ship (or even conscious), how is he going to save the day?

6 hours ago, ratgirlagogo said:

They are this show's version of the Daleks, who believe all biological life should be exterminated.  EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE.  Eventually there came to be many twists about this on Dr Who, so I expect twists here too.

It seems pretty clear that the Kaylons are derivative of several different sources.  There are good arguments for Cylons, Daleks, and the Borg.  And probably a dozen other science fiction stories, for that matter.

Edited February 23, 2019 by rmontro

[chaifan]

9 hours ago, Starchild said:

The more I think about it, the more I believe the real Isaac is still deactivated back on the Kaylon planet.

That was my first thought, especially with the sudden change of personality.  I thought it was weird that one of the kids immediately recognized Issac in the lobby, even though all Kaylons look the same except for red/blue eyes.  Also, leaving the real Issac on the planet allows for him to be the hero that saves the day.  Absent that, or the "involuntary reprogramming", there's no route for keeping Issac on this show.

[marketdoctor]

I wondered if the super-cancer-scan was the Kylons recording the Orville crew for a simulation, and the way they deal with the invasion of Earth is an essential, final part of whether or not the Kylons want to be in the Union. That would explain why

I also wondered if the Krill were the original creators.  That would be why they were high-tech enough to compete with the Union, but were now very religious; if a sub-group survived the robot uprising. 

These could only both be true if the Kylons kicked off the Krill instead of killing them all, and were only simulating the attack to see if the humans/Union were also like the Krill.