S04.E12: Menagerie (2019.02.17)

[MarkHB]

Quote

With his P.I. shingle newly hung outside his office, J'onn welcomes new clients. Trying to take her mind off what happened at the DEO, Kara decides to team up with J'onn on his latest assignment, which unfortunately ends up tying directly into Alex's current investigation that involves the villain Menagerie. Meanwhile, Lena shares some news with James, but his reaction isn't what she expected. Nia invites Brainy to her Valentine's Day party.

[Oreo2234]

Anyone else get the vibe they might be setting the stage for Alex to leave the show (this is pure speculation) especially with Kara getting a new partner in crime, the return of the kid plot and Alex possibly being sidelined from the main plot.

Also its seems kinda late in the season to be introducing a dating plot for Alex. 

Edited February 18, 2019 by Oreo2234

[cambridgeguy]

I see that the Supergirl writers were fans of Stargate-SG1 and the idea of the Goa'uld. 

Alex seems like the type who will be an overprotective mom.  On the plus side it looks like she's found herself a new girlfriend. 

It being Valentine's Day emphasizes that Kara has been romance free all season.  How very uncharacteristic for the attractive lead of a CW show.

[Oreo2234]

Kara has been single a long time. She's been single since the end of season two and unlike Alex she doesn't seem to be interested in dating right now at all. 

I never really cared about James and Lena but having them break up in a Valentines episode made me feel a little sorry for their fans. 

Edited February 18, 2019 by Oreo2234

[mommalib]

27 minutes ago, Oreo2234 said:

Kara has been single a long time. She's been single since the end of season two and unlike Alex she doesn't seem to be interested in dating right now at all. 

I never really cared about James and Lena but having them break up in a Valentines episode made me feel a little sorry for their fans. 

They're gonna get back together at some point i'm sure of it. As far as the break up I agree with James, and Lena asked for his opinion but because she doesn't like the response she wants to break up? James deserves better, and in people's reactions on twitter you would think James was a horrible person that Lena was getting away from.  The amount of hate James gets makes no sense, I chalk it up to racism.

Edited February 18, 2019 by mommalib

[mxc90]

When the guard said it's from Manchester Black, she should have said "Who?" Guy can't find dates on the outside?

[Lantern7]

You know what movie I was watching before Supergirl tonight? Venom. I am not making that up. Core concept with Menagerie, only with snakes instead of black slime.

So we just get two episodes in a row, then a two-week break? Not sure why the Arrowverse? DC-related shows are taking a break. I guess we should take the time to prepare for a lack of subtlety towards social issues, Also, questioning why Nia needs a costume. I guess she can kick a little ass, but most of her deal (powers-wise) is prophetic dreaming. With the old LoSH stories, everyone had those outfits. Or maybe I'm thinking too hard about this.

Hey, teens are getting active in alien-hating! Joy! Oy, can't we just skip to the part where Ben and/or his dumbass kid get killed, but not before realizing that aliens deserve to live? Then we can move on with the Red Daughter, or whatever the heck that Supergirl is called.

[AnimeMania]

Does anybody know why the machete in Ben's son's hand glowed blue when he picked it up?

[thuganomics85]

At the rate things are going, I really would not be surprised if this all ends with President Pushover getting... well, push aside, and Ben Freaking Lockwood somehow gets voted in as President.  Feels like Supergirl and all the normal aliens just can't catch a break, and people are buying what Ben and the Children of Liberty are saying hook, line, and sinker.  To be fair, that's been the downfall for a lot of superheroes: the stupid public opinion!

I'm guessing Menagerie is based off of a comic book character, but, yeah, all I could think of was Venom.  Except this one didn't have Tom Hardy diving into lobster tanks, sadly....

Lena and James are officially through now, since James doesn't agree with her clearly bad plan to allow the government to use her research.  They could be wearing a "Totally Going to Create a New Batch of Supervillains With This!" shirt, but she's agreeing to it for reasons, I guess.

Yeah, this whole wiping Alex's memory thing totally hasn't been helping, J'onn.

I'm not sure what exactly is says about this season so far, but Nia and Brainy have become my favorite characters this season.

Another break next week (for the Oscars, I guess?), but next time: Supergirl: Civil War?!!  Of course, while they're busy fighting each other, Ben's probably just going chill, laugh, and keep plotting his evil schemes.  It's so easy for a villain, sometimes...

[Perfect Xero]

Am I the only one waiting for the reveal that Haley was somehow responsible for the alien showing up when it did, so that she could conveniently use it to appeal to Lena?

Edited February 18, 2019 by Perfect Xero

[ottoDbusdriver]

I kind of expected a betta fish spacecraft to be in that crater -- what's one more Kryptonian ?
And the way that snake launched itself at Pamela, I expected it to go all face-hugger a la Aliens.

For a minute there, I thought Mrs. Stuart was a Jaffa from Stargate SG-1, what with the gold tattoo on her forehead.
Which kind of ties into the whole Menagerie/snake in the head plot.

So, did Nia attack Menagerie with a Festivus pole ?  So when are the airings of grief ?  Followed by the feats of strength ?

They put Pamela Ferrer in regular prison.  And didn't do any checks to see if any remnants of the alien were still in her system.  The radioactive traces perhaps ?
That's just sloppy work there.

Wow !  No followup about Kasnian Supergirl at all. So, is she still in a coma ?  Are we ever going to find out who that Kasnian guard called in America ?
Seriously, this had better have an awesome payoff to drag this particular plot out for 12+ episodes and nothing to show for it.

I liked Lena's red dress -- she looks great in that color.

And no explanation of where that alien came from ?  Neither J'onn nor Kara had any idea what it was.  Or why it crashed on Earth ?  Or are there more of them ?

36 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

Does anybody know why the machete in Ben's son's hand glowed blue when he picked it up?

Nth metal ??  I got nothing.

[tennisgurl]

So now the Liberty Masks can run around in the middle of parties giving press conferences at active crime scenes after they hack aliens up? Why are these guys just allowed to wander around doing whatever? Is Supergirl the only one trying to stop them? And those masks still look stupid. Did I spy a Make Earth Great Again Sign? *drink*

The Not Venom stuff was alright, but mostly I am excited to see her join Manchester Black in some kind of Dark Avengers situation against Lockwood and his merry band of psychopaths. I know that Manchester is super violent and all, but it will at least be nice to see Lockwood and the smugs finally get shaken, fighting people that will do worse than give them a stern warning and maybe call the cops. 

Nia and Brainy are probably my favorite characters now. I always find their scenes to be super charming and endearing, together or separate. 

This mind wipe was a bad idea, and its time everyone just acknowledged it. Will the general having a young daughter come back into play? Maybe Supergirl saves her daughter and she goes pro alien? 

Oh Lena, the might as well have just announced that they plan on making a bunch of new supervillains to deal with. 

[Perfect Xero]

26 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

So now the Liberty Masks can run around in the middle of parties giving press conferences at active crime scenes after they hack aliens up? Why are these guys just allowed to wander around doing whatever? Is Supergirl the only one trying to stop them? And those masks still look stupid. Did I spy a Make Earth Great Again Sign? *drink*

In fairness Supergirl also hacked up aliens and then stood around the party talking to people, so ...

[Trini]

Ugh - if they're going back to Agent Liberty stuff again, I'm going to be out again.

Wow, what are they even doing with James and Lena? I know Lena's work was going to cause tension/etc. between them, but breaking them up again after they just got back together, is just messy. And you should have just gone to Paris anyway, Lena.

In any case, the government + superpower experiments ALWAYS turn out JUST FINE, so we'll see how that goes....

And yeah, looks like they finally remembered halfway through Alex's arc from last season. Probably no adoption this season, but a love interest is coming.

Yeah, of course the mind-wipe is turning out to be more complicated than they all thought. I hope Alex's memories get restored sooner than later.

I fast forwarded through most of the Agent Liberty stuff, and the villain of the week was 'meh' but good special effects.

Sooo... it's just going to be constant back-and-forth awkward flirting between Brainy and Nia? Maybe I'm just impatient. Do we think both these these characters will be around next season?

They're really going to have to work on showing how Nia's powers will be useful out in the field to justify a costume, I think.

[Ubiquitous]

I find Brainiac's antics to be beyond tedious.

Why haven't they restored at least Alex's memories now that Haley is no longer searching for Supergirl's secret ID? Surely J'onn wasn't foolish enough to make it permanent? I found it amusing when Menagerie tried to bite Kara and seemingly lost a couple teeth but Lex didn't think anything about its reaction and Kara was all like "oh, it just tore my shirt!" afterward.

 Some Earth First kid killed the alien of the week while Stupidgirl was recovering from being maced in the face. Good job, Kara! 🙄

So why did President Sheridan release Destro from prison?

They put Menagerie/Pamela in a regular prison without making sure she was "all clear" first?

Good thing Nia's mother was a cosplayer, eh?

[Writing Wrongs]

9 hours ago, mommalib said:

The amount of hate James gets makes no sense, I chalk it up to racism.

I think he is a boring character. But then again, I'm not liking most of what they've done with the characters and stories on this show. If it wasn't for crossover stuff, I'd probably just quit watching. And I'm still waiting on what they are planning with the other Supergirl.

[cambridgeguy]

10 hours ago, mommalib said:

The amount of hate James gets makes no sense, I chalk it up to racism.

This show has never quite known what to do with him but I thought he was pretty reasonable in this episode.  Yes, he can climb up on his soapbox and get judgemental at times but so does every other character on this show.  Hopefully he doesn't complete the Laurel Lance journey of former primary love interests and get killed off by the Big Bad.

4 hours ago, Ubiquitous said:

So why did President Sheridan release Destro from prison?

All of the protesters demanding his freedom were becoming a problem so he caved and found a loophole to get him out.

[ottoDbusdriver]

6 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

This show has never quite known what to do with him but I thought he was pretty reasonable in this episode.  Yes, he can climb up on his soapbox and get judgemental at times but so does every other character on this show.  Hopefully he doesn't complete the Laurel Lance journey of former primary love interests and get killed off by the Big Bad.

Maybe they could just send James back to Metropolis.

[MarkHB]

16 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

Hopefully he doesn't complete the Laurel Lance journey of former primary love interests and get killed off by the Big Bad.

Maybe he'll be killed by KGBeast who will be working for Lex. 

Didn't someone say, "I thought the Sons of Liberty were over?" Because that was the most meta comment ever.

[angora]

Liked Nia suiting up and getting out there, with Kara being pleased but still telling her she needs to train before she’s really ready.  I’m glad things have SLIGHTLY progressed with Brainy, too - at least he admitted out loud to someone that he’s into her.  It’s a step up from him being totally oblivious to all romantic hinting on her part.

(Side note:  Jesse Rath has definitely cranked his Brainy voice up to 11 since the show came back after the crossover and I don’t know why.)

J’onn playing “matchmaker” trying to get Alex and Kara working together again was so sweet, bless him.  

The way Alex was coddling her in the field, I think I finally get why no one picks up on the resemblance between Kara/Supergirl or the convenient overlap in their social circles.  Despite Kara repeatedly insisting that she can handle herself, the image people have of her is “sweet vulnerable Bambi,” so it never occurs to them to imagine that she could possibly be Supergirl.

[Perfect Xero]

So from what I could gather in the episode Nia's powers allow her to see her opponents attacks before they make them, thus allowing her to be a kick ass fighter, it would be better if the show played it as a drunken master type thing and had her repeatedly nodding off during the fight.

[mxc90]

When news report showed the crowd of Children of Liberty gathering at a rally, I thought I saw the Cuban flag waving. That's the best fake crowd footage they could find?

[Ubiquitous]

2 hours ago, angora said:

Side note:  Jesse Rath has definitely cranked his Brainy voice up to 11 since the show came back after the crossover and I don’t know why.

Ah, I wondered why he sounded sillier than how I remembered.

[secnarf]

I got the feeling that this break-up with James is what will ultimately push Lena into villain territory.

Between that and Alex still not having her memory back, I don't know if I can keep watching.

[ottoDbusdriver]

4 hours ago, mxc90 said:

When news report showed the crowd of Children of Liberty gathering at a rally, I thought I saw the Cuban flag waving. That's the best fake crowd footage they could find?

Upon second review, that was a Catalan separatist flag better known as the Senyera estelada.  Which looks like a red/yellow version of the Cuban flag, but with more stripes.
In fact, that crowd scene in President Sheridan's office must have been on a loop as the scene with the waving flag was on the displays in the Oval Office mid-episode and at the end of the episode.  Either that or Earth-38 version of CNN just repeats itself way too much.

16 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Did I spy a Make Earth Great Again Sign? *drink*

Actually, it was a 'Make Earth Human Again' sign.  MEHA, I guess.

[Ubiquitous]

Did they ever explain this flood of (illegal?) aliens?

[ottoDbusdriver]

33 minutes ago, Ubiquitous said:

Did they ever explain this flood of (illegal?) aliens?

Not really.  It's not like an alien version of Optimus Prime (from the 'The Transformers' movie) sent out a call throughout the universe telling aliens to come to Earth.

And they never really explained why Menagerie was eating the victim's hearts.  And only their hearts.

Then again, maybe the alien snake creature/Menagerie was just another alien looking for a safe refuge.   </sarcasm>

Edited February 18, 2019 by ottoDbusdriver

[Writing Wrongs]

49 minutes ago, Ubiquitous said:

Did they ever explain this flood of (illegal?) aliens?

National City doesn't have a wall?

[Perfect Xero]

It's kind of interesting that Kara's (and the shows) no kill and empathy for aliens policies went right out the window when the aliens of the week were snakes and not humanoids with bumps on their foreheads

[rtms77]

8 hours ago, secnarf said:

I got the feeling that this break-up with James is what will ultimately push Lena into villain territory.

Between that and Alex still not having her memory back, I don't know if I can keep watching.

This is what makes me so mad, the predictable writing. Of course it’s going to be a man that Lena goes to the villainous side.  I hate the fact that they took a strong female character and made her a crying puddle over whether her man thinks she’s good or not. Considering he himself has recently done some morally ambiguous things with his position of power he has no right to judge. I am wondering if her latent alien dislike is feeding this drive to make “special humans”, coupled with her continuing feelings  regarding Supergirl. Last year she was dead set in her opposition to her stuff being used or investigated by the government and told the DEO off when they questioned her. I’m hoping that it’s more out of fear and not hatred that she wants to help the government. Of course nothing good comes out of that agreement. 

Edited February 19, 2019 by rtms77

[statsgirl]

22 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

This mind wipe was a bad idea, and its time everyone just acknowledged it.

A bad idea for many reasons, none the least because it's tainted the sister scenes between Kara and Alex which were the best relationship on the show.

I like the Kara/Nia friendship but I wish they hadn't killed Alex/Supergirl to get to it.

The President seemed very glad to have a reason to release Citizen Liberty.  I had a feeling that Sheridan was on the anti-alien side.

9 hours ago, secnarf said:

I got the feeling that this break-up with James is what will ultimately push Lena into villain territory.

Or creating villains with the government will.

I thought the break-up was interesting because it seemed like Lena was looking for an excuse to break up with him. Saying "we knew this was inevitable" gave me the impression that Lena feels that she can't have happiness and wanted to push him away sooner before he breaks up with her.

Edited February 19, 2019 by statsgirl

[cambridgeguy]

9 hours ago, rtms77 said:

This is what makes me so mad, the predictable writing. Of course it’s going to be a man that Lena goes to the villainous side.  I hate the fact that they took a strong female character and made her a crying puddle over whether her man thinks she’s good or not. Considering he himself has recently done some morally ambiguous things with his position of power he has no right to judge. I am wondering if her latent alien dislike is feeding this drive to make “special humans”, coupled with her continuing feelings  regarding Supergirl. Last year she was dead set in her opposition to her stuff being used or investigated by the government and told the DEO off when they questioned her. I’m hoping that it’s more out of fear and not hatred that she wants to help the government. Of course nothing good comes out of that agreement. 

In this episode it didn't come across as Lena being on the fence and breaking up with James is what pushed her over.  She had already made up her mind, James objected, and she dumped him.  If anything it was her arguments with Kara last season that helped drive her to the Lex Luthor point of view.  Although if she's really going to be like Lex she'll make sure she plays the government like a fiddle.

[ButYourHonor]

I don’t understand how people are falling for the “Lena is going bad and helping the government” ruse that they are pushing.  It was clear that she was rattled from her very first scene.  She wanted to get James away.  Then Hayley came with her offer.  She kept getting messages on her phone and getting progressively more morose.  My money is on it somehow involving Lex and Red Supergirl, and she’s somehow trying to help, not be “evil”.

On the subject of her “super secret research”, that was quite the plot hole with Hayley apparently knowing all about it even though it’s off-the-books nature was a plot-point only a few episodes ago.

I haven’t like James since the first season, sadly.  I think they’ve really misused him.  He and Lena are terrible together.  He’s nothing but judge mental.  Of course he was also super judge mental of Kara in season one, so at least he’s in-character?

[immortalfrieza]

My problem with the breakup is it hinges on James having a rather nonsensical reaction. Lena said the government wanted to use her human enhancement project, not that she had agreed to it. Yet James acted like Lena had just told him that she was going through with it already. If anything, James' attitude pushed Lena to accepting the government contract when she otherwise wouldn't have.

The government of the Supergirl universe has already demonstrated it has rocks for brains. What with having Supergirl in their palm of their hand for the past 4 years when they decided to be remotely reasonable and would have continued to if they had stayed that way instead of becoming obsessed with making Kara say how high when they said jump. As others have said, there's no way the government is not going to use Lena's enhancement project to make supervillains. Hell, I would put money on them doing it in the stupidest manner possible, like using complete psychopaths as test subjects. Maybe the writers could throw us a bone and have James get enhanced somewhere along the line so he can go back to being Guardian plus not being completely useless, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

[statsgirl]

If Lena had already decided against working with the government, wouldn't she have said "You'll never guess what happened .. the government wants to partner with me, ha ha ha. Of course I turned them down."  Instead she told James like it was a done deal.

Was this show always this bad at making people stupid for plot? First mind-wiping Alex when it's none of the government's business if Supergirl has or has not an alternate identity (that just happens to have the same first name <Leyeroll> and now Lena enhancing humans when a brief study of either history or psychology would have shown her what a phenomenally bad idea it is.

Although I am curious what made Lena almost frantic to whisk James away to Paris one moment and break up with him the next.

[Ubiquitous]

10 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Although I am curious what made Lena almost frantic to whisk James away to Paris one moment and break up with him the next.

Besides dramatic license?

[Winston Wolfe]

On 2/18/2019 at 12:52 PM, Ubiquitous said:

On 2/18/2019 at 9:51 AM, angora said:

Side note:  Jesse Rath has definitely cranked his Brainy voice up to 11 since the show came back after the crossover and I don’t know why.

Ah, I wondered why he sounded sillier than how I remembered.

Not just sillier, but also louder and at times unintelligible.  At one point I was ready to activate my closed captioning to figure out what the heck he was saying.

[Rushmoras]

On 2/19/2019 at 2:21 PM, cambridgeguy said:

In this episode it didn't come across as Lena being on the fence and breaking up with James is what pushed her over.  She had already made up her mind, James objected, and she dumped him.  If anything it was her arguments with Kara last season that helped drive her to the Lex Luthor point of view.  Although if she's really going to be like Lex she'll make sure she plays the government like a fiddle.

Hmm, and if she is going to turn evil, then what is the message the show is trying to make? That if you hail from a family of bad guys, you are inherently evil yourself, and no matter what good you do, you will always be evil? Heck, terrible writing, if you ask me.

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 2/19/2019 at 8:51 PM, immortalfrieza said:

My problem with the breakup is it hinges on James having a rather nonsensical reaction. Lena said the government wanted to use her human enhancement project, not that she had agreed to it. Yet James acted like Lena had just told him that she was going through with it already. If anything, James' attitude pushed Lena to accepting the government contract when she otherwise wouldn't have.

The government of the Supergirl universe has already demonstrated it has rocks for brains. What with having Supergirl in their palm of their hand for the past 4 years when they decided to be remotely reasonable and would have continued to if they had stayed that way instead of becoming obsessed with making Kara say how high when they said jump. As others have said, there's no way the government is not going to use Lena's enhancement project to make supervillains. Hell, I would put money on them doing it in the stupidest manner possible, like using complete psychopaths as test subjects. Maybe the writers could throw us a bone and have James get enhanced somewhere along the line so he can go back to being Guardian plus not being completely useless, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

I'm confused.

James's reaction, as I recall, was basically what you are saying here. To paraphrase, "No matter how open-minded I might try to be, partnering up with the government to make humans super is a BAD idea and I won't support it." 

I don't see that as a nonsensical reaction.

Rather, I see Lena's breakup in response as one, given the evidence that the government will veer between incompetent, corrupt, short-sighted and plain evil, and as a billionaire on verge of a discovery that would be worth billions more, she literally gets nothing from pairing with the government and only stands to lose out. For this to be the dealbreaker that would shift her from "Let's do a last-minute romantic trip to Paris" to "This just can't work out. GTFO of my limo" didn't work for me at all.

[Perfect Xero]

On 2/18/2019 at 12:17 PM, mxc90 said:

When news report showed the crowd of Children of Liberty gathering at a rally, I thought I saw the Cuban flag waving. That's the best fake crowd footage they could find?

Apparently it was the flag of Catalonia, they used footage from the independence rallies in Spain.

1 hour ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I'm confused.

James's reaction, as I recall, was basically what you are saying here. To paraphrase, "No matter how open-minded I might try to be, partnering up with the government to make humans super is a BAD idea and I won't support it." 

I don't see that as a nonsensical reaction.

Rather, I see Lena's breakup in response as one, given the evidence that the government will veer between incompetent, corrupt, short-sighted and plain evil, and as a billionaire on verge of a discovery that would be worth billions more, she literally gets nothing from pairing with the government and only stands to lose out. For this to be the dealbreaker that would shift her from "Let's do a last-minute romantic trip to Paris" to "This just can't work out. GTFO of my limo" didn't work for me at all.

Realizing that a strong disagreement on an important issue is going to make continuing a relationship untenable is a fair response.

The real problem is that the show hasn't made the issues this season nuanced or subtle in the least, so Lena's position itself looks foolish.

[statsgirl]

On 2/21/2019 at 6:55 PM, Perfect Xero said:

Realizing that a strong disagreement on an important issue is going to make continuing a relationship untenable is a fair response.

Lena didn't even try to work things through with him. It was another "stupid for plot" move by the show.

[Winston Wolfe]

On 2/22/2019 at 11:48 PM, statsgirl said:

Lena didn't even try to work things through with him. It was another "stupid for plot" move by the show.

Yes to that.  As another poster noted, it was almost like Lena was looking to start a disagreement as a means to end the relationship.  The way Katie played it, that was Lena's whole demeanor in the Limo.

Poor James, so unlucky in love.  And since we've already been down to James Olsen-Lucy Lane road with this show, my guess is his next romance will be with a brand new character, although TPTB love recycling characters from cannon.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 2/19/2019 at 8:58 PM, ButYourHonor said:

On the subject of her “super secret research”, that was quite the plot hole with Hayley apparently knowing all about it even though it’s off-the-books nature was a plot-point only a few episodes ago

Yes, only Eve and James should know, since Adam died. And, speaking of Adam, has Lena had any more test subjects? Is the government going to use unknowing soldiers as test subjects?

On 2/19/2019 at 9:51 PM, immortalfrieza said:

My problem with the breakup is it hinges on James having a rather nonsensical reaction. Lena said the government wanted to use her human enhancement project, not that she had agreed to it. Yet James acted like Lena had just told him that she was going through with it already. If anything, James' attitude pushed Lena to accepting the government contract when she otherwise wouldn't have.

It is true that she didn't say she was considering it, only that the government had approached her. James said that he hoped she wasn't considering it, and that she was better than that. She reacted like a teenager who decides to do the opposite of what her parent says she should do, to demonstrate her independence.

I guess Lena still has James' Paris luggage? I hope his laptop isn't in there. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

Is there a worse father than Ben Lockwood?  And mom seems ok with the chasing aliens thing also.

Edited February 24, 2019 by ItCouldBeWorse

[car54]

Are they making Lena work with the government so the new President has an excuse to let her brother out to work with her?    

[Ubiquitous]

Did they ever explain the motivation for Menagerie's arrival on Earth, other than it thinks human hearts are tasty?