S16.E13: She

[thewhiteowl]

After a malnourished and confused child is found NCIS reopens a missing persons case that Ziva  kept notes on long after they stopped investigating.

[Katy M]

Really?  I was kind of excited at the beginning, because I kind of like it when it's about saving someone versus just solving a crime.  But, then the whole Ziva stuff came up.  And I have nothing against Ziva, but I couldn't really figure out the point of why she needed to be involved.  So, then I started dreading the end.  Because I knew.  Otherwise there was no real purpose.

So, Ziva was just hanging out waiting for this case to be solved so she could swoop in a read a letter?  Potentially putting her family in danger, apparently.  And, when did she have all this time to hang out in a rented office and write journals and investigate crimes on her own?  We all know these NCIS agents work 20 hours a day, at least 6 days a week.  

And, Ziva is not Gibb's daughter.  For crying out loud, I've been at my job for 15 years and I don't think my boss is my dad.  Nor do I act like it.

Edited February 13, 2019 by Katy M

[stonehaven]

I have never screamed at a bad guy to shoot an NCIS agent but I did tonight. I officially hate this show..not just bored by it but HATE it....McGee doesn't get to talk about Ziva even though he and Gibbs are the only ones in the cast to know her...Elli breaks Gibbs rules and risk her life and Gibbs says "Go Home!" ???? Fire her ass...and Torres knowing they are trying to locate a missing woman gripes about a gift? Really?..and then thing with Ziva at the end? Come on! This isn't Dallas or Knots Landing...This is NC-Freaking-IS.....

I was weirdly content to watch this 'till the end of the series run as I had investment in some of the characters....but they just shit on all of us longtime fans....or at least this one.... I've watched it for about 10 years now...and my ride is over....NCIS has jumped the shark...

[FormerMod-a1]

Why Ziva?  While I tired of her storylines I always liked the character, but really?  Can't Ellie just have her own storylines?  The only way I'll be happy if the bring Ziva back is if they get rid of Torres and the shrink at the same time.  And I don't hate them, I just think there's too many characters and I'm bored the most by them.

[BookWitch]

I didn't mind the story. At least there wasn't a bunch of killing this time. But they left a major plot hole. Why did the guy take the woman in the first place? Revenge?  The Ziva stuff was eh but I agree that she wouldn't have had the time to work cases along with her NCIS job.

[enoughcats]

Regardless of the questionable competence of NCIS HQ, do not tell me that Mossad's Director's daughter would have a secret office in DC without it being known about.  No way.  No how.  Not in a million years.  

There's a current news story that had pictures of the late Ralph Waite, parent of John Boy and also father of Agent Gibbs.  Darned if Gibbs' last scenes tonight didn't make me wonder how they photoshopped  Mr. Waite into the scene.  Which lead me to see Gibbs as older.  

The rest of the bunch of happy screwballs.....Fast forward remains my friend.

[green]

I don't care about any thing else but that Ziva is alive!  I don't care about plot holes.  I don't care about her daughter not with her any more.  I don't care about what she has been doing all these years (apparently solving unsolved cases in America) or anything else.  Ziva is a legendary character and always was and I've hated the show since they "killed" her off screen in her sleep.  That was so wrong.  This mythic character deserved better and now she is up there with Marvel superheroes and that is okay by me.

[Katy M]

9 hours ago, BookWitch said:

I didn't mind the story. At least there wasn't a bunch of killing this time. But they left a major plot hole. Why did the guy take the woman in the first place? Revenge?  The Ziva stuff was eh but I agree that she wouldn't have had the time to work cases along with her NCIS job.

Just a crazy guy who wanted a "wife" or something?  This happens all the time in the real world, so not worried about motivation.

[welnoc]

When the f&$k did this become the Ellie Bishop show? So sick of it. Gibbs doing that narration when Ellie jumped into the lake had me so hoping that she was going to be killed off. Of course, they'd have to kill off Torres too or we'd have to watch all his teenaged style angst over the loss of his unrequited love.

And what was with him filling the jar with water? I didn't get the symbolism. 

Give McGee some episodes. He's the only reason I'm hanging in. Gibbs looks tired and miserable and isn't interesting anymore. 

This all just makes me feel sad. 

Edited February 13, 2019 by welnoc

[SamBeckett]

Here’s a thought I have. I think Gibbs gets upset when he looks at Ziva’s desk and sees Ellie. He even said it. So, yes, he misses Ziva (and Kate before her. Both associated with that desk. And both dead.)  It’s not that he hates Ellie, or prefers Ziva over Ellie. Honestly, I think he loves Ellie as a father would. That’s the problem. He’s afraid he might lose Ellie (which THAT desk represents) and he couldn’t handle that, not after everything else. So, that’s why he’s adamant “she keep her head in the game.” He knows he might not be able to save her, so he needs her to really, really focus on protecting herself or, in other words, solving the case.

I liked the episode. It was different. Yes, there were all kinds of questions. But, I liked it.

[Brooks]

Bishop can't afford to keep this secret.  As soon as Gibbs finds out, she's fired.

Did Ziva also abandon her daughter?  If so, not cool, and it destroys the Ziva mystique for me.

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 hours ago, green said:

I don't care about any thing else but that Ziva is alive!  I don't care about plot holes.  

I CALLED IT!!!!! I totally called it back when the show was trying to tell us that Ziva was dead, to usher off Tony. Not that I've watched the last few episodes or even this one. My theory: No body, no death. And they never found Ziva's body.

2 minutes ago, SamBeckett said:

Here’s a thought I have. I think Gibbs gets upset when he looks at Ziva’s desk and sees Ellie. He even said it. So, yes, he misses Ziva (and Kate before her. Both associated with that desk. And both dead.)  It’s not that he hates Ellie, or prefers Ziva over Ellie. Honestly, I think he loves Ellie as a father would. That’s the problem. He’s afraid he might lose Ellie (which THAT desk represents) and he couldn’t handle that, not after everything else. So, that’s why he’s adamant “she keep her head in the game.” He knows he might not be able to save her, so he needs her to really, really focus on protecting herself or, in other words, solving the case.

I liked the episode. It was different. Yes, there were all kinds of questions. But, I liked it.

That's how the show tried to portray Gibbs and Ziva's relationship, with her non-apology apology for her betrayal. That because she had a sucky daddy in Eli, she considered Gibbs her daddy, and was soooooo huuuuuurt when he wouldn't stand by her when Tony "murdered" what'shisface, and gave him the ultimatum that it was either Tony or her. And then that schmaltzy night baseball throwing scene. BLECH.🤢

[Capiam]

I'm still trying to find out who played Morgan Burke. For a character who was such a big part of this episode, she remains conspicuously anonymous.

[Katy M]

7 minutes ago, Capiam said:

I'm still trying to find out who played Morgan Burke. For a character who was such a big part of this episode, she remains conspicuously anonymous.

I'm sure it will pop up on IMDB in a couple of days.

[Raja]

1 hour ago, Brooks said:

Bishop can't afford to keep this secret.  As soon as Gibbs finds out, she's fired.

Did Ziva also abandon her daughter?  If so, not cool, and it destroys the Ziva mystique for me.

It wouldn't be abandoning her daughter it would be taking the target off of daughter's back and protecting her. So now she just runs the risk that all average Israelis do.

[Magnumfangirl]

11 hours ago, BookWitch said:

But they left a major plot hole. Why did the guy take the woman in the first place?

Yes, all the angst over Ziva left no time to really "solve" the crime.

1 hour ago, Brooks said:

Did Ziva also abandon her daughter?

Apparently she did and Tony and the daughter are left twisting in the wind while she sneaks around trying to solve crimes.  And she's not even doing a very good job of that.  She had no suspects and none of her notes helped the team solve it.  WTF??

12 hours ago, Katy M said:

And, when did she have all this time to hang out in a rented office and write journals and investigate crimes on her own?

Why did she need to rent a shed in somebody's backyard to write a bunch of journals?  Couldn't she do that home?

1 hour ago, welnoc said:

Gibbs looks tired and miserable and isn't interesting anymore. 

Gibbs' daughter issues have gotten stale.  MH has never been a great actor, but he's not even trying anymore. 

All in all, a lame story to tell us Ziva is still alive, but at least I didn't go to sleep for this one.

[Katy M]

14 minutes ago, Magnumfangirl said:

Why did she need to rent a shed in somebody's backyard to write a bunch of journals?  Couldn't she do that home?

I can only question one nonsensical point at a time.

[Brooks]

When did Ziva have the opportunity to rip out a page from the journal.  I thought it was either in Bishop's or Gibbs' possession by then.  And how did Ziva manage to track the status of NCIS' investigation?

[UncleChuck]

Oh Crap!!!

I have a NCIS coffee mug with "Gibbs' Rules".  What in blazes do I do with it now that he has changed The Rules?

[secnarf]

49 minutes ago, Brooks said:

When did Ziva have the opportunity to rip out a page from the journal.  I thought it was either in Bishop's or Gibbs' possession by then.  And how did Ziva manage to track the status of NCIS' investigation?

Well, it was all over the news, so that would have alerted her to pay attention. As to how she got the page from the journal, I have no idea.

I didn't think she was holed up in that shed all these years solving unsolved crimes - I thought those journals were supposedly done in 'real time' - as  she was working those cases. Definitely find it odd that she is back in the US, though.

I also wondered, if the shed is only hers for another year, what was she planning on doing at that time? Anonymously sending the money to the landlady?

[Raja]

53 minutes ago, Brooks said:

When did Ziva have the opportunity to rip out a page from the journal.  I thought it was either in Bishop's or Gibbs' possession by then.  And how did Ziva manage to track the status of NCIS' investigation?

Its TV, Navy  SEALs can do anything and if the star is a spy then she can do even more.

[Katy M]

By the way, I was wondering last night, it is common for people who are pregnant to sign up to join the Navy (or any armed service)?  I would either want to wait to have children later, or join up after the child had been born and I had bonded for a bit.  They did say she hadn't actually started duty yet which means she just joined, right?

[Raja]

4 minutes ago, Katy M said:

By the way, I was wondering last night, it is common for people who are pregnant to sign up to join the Navy (or any armed service)?  I would either want to wait to have children later, or join up after the child had been born and I had bonded for a bit.  They did say she hadn't actually started duty yet which means she just joined, right?

She took the oath at the recruiting station level, hence Gibb's position she is one of us. But had not yet reported for boot camp, thus against the general Marine's statement that you haven't earned the title until you completed boot camp.

[Ohmo]

Anyone who has ever read this forum knows my dislike for Ziva is off the charts.  This episode exemplifies why.  I was ready to embrace that Ziva investigated this case because she was a probie at the time.  Bonded with the mother.  OK.  However, for the entire span of the character, the writers ALWAYS have taken it much too far with Ziva, and that's why I dislike her.  It couldn't just be this one specific case.  Nope.  It had to be EVERY one that Ziva ever worked ...with cabinets of notebooks and pages and pages of notes.  Please.  Completely unnecessary,  Plus, her own "office" space.

The writers insist on making Ziva this super, special, snowflake superhero who can magically do anything, and every NCIS fan does not see her this way.  Instead of trying to meet those of us who don't like her somewhere in the middle, we get what we've always gotten with her...and people like me continue to dislike her.

[Katy M]

32 minutes ago, Raja said:

She took the oath at the recruiting station level, hence Gibb's position she is one of us. But had not yet reported for boot camp, thus against the general Marine's statement that you haven't earned the title until you completed boot camp.

Right.  But, my question is, why would you go to the recruitment office in the first place when you're pregnant?  The timing just feels weird to me. 

[eel2178]

50 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Right.  But, my question is, why would you go to the recruitment office in the first place when you're pregnant?  The timing just feels weird to me. 

When my friend joined the navy, she had to prove she wasn't pregnant before they let her in.

[green]

Whoops, wrong thread.

Edited February 13, 2019 by green

[MissLucas]

I dropped this show when they decided to kill off the only interesting newbie and Perrette had decided to leave. Returned to check was all the buzz was about and ran into this heap of retconning. As for Gibbs suddenly freaking out over the desk of doom - get some therapy or since that's more up your alley use your carpentry skills and create a new one, maybe that will help. Also: rule no 10 was always a joke and nobody ever bothered - or have we forgotten all the 'this time it's personal plots'?

Anyhow - the cynic in me believes in Ziva's return only when 'Bull' gets cancelled.

[Katy M]

25 minutes ago, eel2178 said:

When my friend joined the navy, she had to prove she wasn't pregnant before they let her in.

See. That's what I was thinking.  I know you have to take a physical.

[eel2178]

2 hours ago, Ohmo said:

  I was ready to embrace that Ziva investigated this case because she was a probie at the time.  Bonded with the mother.  OK.  However, for the entire span of the character, the writers ALWAYS have taken it much too far with Ziva, and that's why I dislike her.  It couldn't just be this one specific case.  Nope.  It had to be EVERY one that Ziva ever worked ...with cabinets of notebooks and pages and pages of notes.  Please.  Completely unnecessary,  Plus, her own "office" space.

This totally negates the exit-line they had given Ziva. She had a sudden Epiphone that for every person she killed, there was someone left behind to grieve. This episode made it look as though she understood that all along. 

[Tony Dickson]

She bought a guitar every time she killed somebody?

😉 

[eel2178]

Just now, Tony Dickson said:

She bought a guitar every time she killed somebody?

😉

Blame autocorrect.

[Tony Dickson]

3 minutes ago, eel2178 said:

Blame autocorrect.

That's what I figured 😉 

[eel2178]

On ‎2‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 2:49 PM, Tony Dickson said:

That's what I figured 😉 

I'm not fixing it because your comment is so hilarious.

Edited February 18, 2019 by eel2178

[may flowers]

Does Jack Sloan look different? If she hadn’t been speaking, I wouldn’t have thought it was her in the scene with the child in the maintenance room and the scenes after. 

[LuvMyShows]

5 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Also: rule no 10 was always a joke and nobody ever bothered - or have we forgotten all the 'this time it's personal plots'?

Gibbs' astounding hypocrisy drove me up the wall.  Maybe I'm conflating two different episodes where Gibbs took a personal interest, but there was a recent one where NCIS put a guy in jail years ago, but Gibbs or someone went to watch when he was released and got everyone involved in solving something that was personal, and there was the daughter of a former Marine buddy and she needed protecting.  Someone more knowledgeable than me can probably figure out the one(s) I was referencing, and maybe even add other ones where Gibbs took a personal interest.

Also, I couldn't figure out what information Ellie didn't tell him, that he got mad about.  Another hypocrisy since there have been numerous episodes where people keep case-related info secret...didn't Jack just go on that revenge-filled personal vendetta which involved keeping info secret? 

[ForReal]

I did not finish watching this episode with a feeling of enjoyment. I was extremely annoyed with Bishop. I don't care if they get personal about a case or not, but Gibbs was right about keeping your head in the game. That said, Bishop could have read the journal and got all angsty about it while still doing her job. Instead, it was like she took a leave of duty to think about it the way she wanted to and why? Because she wanted to understand and learn from Ziva? No, just no.

That she went to the cabin alone to confront the guy was just ridiculous. Of course she ends up having to put the gun down, she had no backup! And then she leaves it there for the guy to go grab and shoot at them some more. She has no common agent sense -- she's nothing like Ziva in that regard. And when she dragged that woman out of the water and started mouth to mouth -- she couldn't shout out to the team for help? Like she has to do everything on her own.

Yeah, I did not like this episode. I don't think the rule had to be burned; I don't think it even should have been brought up. I was perfectly content believing Ziva was possibly out there somewhere alive, and I don't like this chain of events. Even with an extreme suspension of belief, I can't buy that Ziva tore out the page and went to the hospital to read it to the guy when she's supposedly in hiding for the safety of her family. No, just no.

[Linderhill]

8 hours ago, Ohmo said:

The writers insist on making Ziva this super, special, snowflake superhero who can magically do anything, and every NCIS fan does not see her this way.  Instead of trying to meet those of us who don't like her somewhere in the middle, we get what we've always gotten with her...and people like me continue to dislike her.

and me.  so now it's again super Ziva, ugh.  She wasn't the best investigator on the team, why do they keep forgetting that?

[Tdoc72]

19 hours ago, UncleChuck said:

Oh Crap!!!

I have a NCIS coffee mug with "Gibbs' Rules".  What in blazes do I do with it now that he has changed The Rules?

LOL?  Scratch #10 out w/a Sharpie??

[Kelda Feegle]

13 hours ago, may flowers said:

Does Jack Sloan look different? If she hadn’t been speaking, I wouldn’t have thought it was her in the scene with the child in the maintenance room and the scenes after. 

I thought she looked like she was epileptic in that scene, her eyes were up a lot and not really making a strong eyeline to the little girl she was supposed to be connecting with. My OH suggested she was over acting with her eyes to compensate for not being able to move her face at all.

[GHScorpiosRule]

19 hours ago, Ohmo said:

Anyone who has ever read this forum knows my dislike for Ziva is off the charts.  This episode exemplifies why.  I was ready to embrace that Ziva investigated this case because she was a probie at the time.  Bonded with the mother.  OK.  However, for the entire span of the character, the writers ALWAYS have taken it much too far with Ziva, and that's why I dislike her.  It couldn't just be this one specific case.  Nope.  It had to be EVERY one that Ziva ever worked ...with cabinets of notebooks and pages and pages of notes.  Please.  Completely unnecessary,  Plus, her own "office" space.

The writers insist on making Ziva this super, special, snowflake superhero who can magically do anything, and every NCIS fan does not see her this way.  Instead of trying to meet those of us who don't like her somewhere in the middle, we get what we've always gotten with her...and people like me continue to dislike her.

I'm pretty sure I don't need to reiterate my dislike for this character. Regarding the bolded, you forgot to add super, amazing ninja skillz where she could best men twice her size and weight who were just as skilled as she was. Or her jealousy over Tony when he was with Jean, and then treating him like shit she couldn't scrape off her shoe when he wasn't dating anyone.

10 hours ago, Linderhill said:

and me.  so now it's again super Ziva, ugh.  She wasn't the best investigator on the team, why do they keep forgetting that?

Make room for me, please. Am I right to assume that they just talked about Ziva? That she wasn't actually on the show?

[thewhiteowl]

This was unusual for me as it actually held my attention for the hour. I say this as no fan of Ellie or Ziva but despite the glaring plot holes, it was good. Ellie has gone rogue before so not surprised there but she learned nothing which was a surprise. I found it pretty easy to believe Ziva could sneak around unnoticed because no one is looking for her. Although the mighty Ellie may think that she is so smart she could find her without endangering anyone. Hope not. I liked it.

[Ohmo]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Make room for me, please. Am I right to assume that they just talked about Ziva? That she wasn't actually on the show?

You are correct.  They used a photograph of Ziva taking a picture with a camera (which I suspect either came in one piece from a previous episode or was created from existing footage or photographs).  Cote was not in the show, nor was she listed in the credits.  The photograph was the only imagery of Ziva in the episode.

[basiltherat]

Even Ziva didn't trust Bishop to read the damned letter and had to do it herself!  Waa waa waa, BISH

[RobertDeSneero]

On 2/13/2019 at 8:31 AM, Magnumfangirl said:

Why did she need to rent a shed in somebody's backyard to write a bunch of journals?  Couldn't she do that home?

In the NCIS universe, people like Ziva seem to keep some sort of off-the-books safehouse where they might leave a cache of weapons.  Sam and Callen probably do the same thing in LA.  She was likely trained to not have too much of an easily tracked routine like sleeping in the same bed every night.

I liked Ellie calling out Gibbs on his hypocrisy.  She's the right character to do that.  Gibbs is going to have an interesting reaction when he finds out she knew Ziva is alive.

I don't think Ziva would hide her status from Tony.  From her child, yes, because children can't keep secrets, but Tony has been in the game long enough that he would know what to do.  Maybe the actors are returning for a story arc as part of the deal for the cop show they are exec producing.

[basiltherat]

Well, do you think SENIOR could keep a secret?!

[HurricaneVal]

21 hours ago, RobertDeSneero said:

I don't think Ziva would hide her status from Tony.  From her child, yes, because children can't keep secrets, but Tony has been in the game long enough that he would know what to do.

17 hours ago, basiltherat said:

Well, do you think SENIOR could keep a secret?!

I had very nearly these exact same thoughts! 

Other than that, I really don't know what to think about this episode.  It was all over the place.  Gibbs is not being Gibbs, there's plot holes a'plenty, Bishop should have just come clean--she owes nothing to Ziva--and Leroy Jethro "don't take it personally" Gibbs really needs to get over his thing about Kate/Ziva's desk.  As well as his daddy/daughter issues.

I always preferred Ziva with McGee.  That was a much better dynamic than Ziva with Tony or Ziva with Gibbs.  But I also didn't care for her Mary Sue speshulness.  I will accept that Mossad agents must have unbelievable skills.  I will accept that being her father's daughter, she's been motivated to hone those unbelievable skills.  But she's not superhuman, and the laws of physics and the law of averages should still apply.  I don't miss her being gone.

I do miss Tony.  I wish they could have Michael Weatherly pop in here and there.  They have fucking Senior pop in, and there is literally no reason for him to be there with Tony gone.  Yeah, MW has another show now, but it is a CBS show, so it isn't like he couldn't just walk across the lot (or whatever) and cruise through the bullpen showing off Talia in a ballerina costume to drop off a birthday present for McGee's twins.  But MW is also by some reports a horrible, harassing person so maybe he shouldn't get any fan love with a cameo.  I dunno...  I miss the character, the actor not so much.

[funky-rat]

I just dropped by to see if anyone else was all "WTF" about this episode.

This show stopped being must-see for me a number of seasons ago, but my husband insists on sticking with it, along with New Orleans and the God-Awful Los Angeles (even LL Cool J can't save that one).  I stopped caring back around the story arc that went on WAAAY too long about La Granouille.  I was never a fan of Lauren Holly, and that plotline carried on for far too long.  Once Ziva was taken off the show, I'd had enough.

Too many plot holes and things that weren't fitting for Ziva in this one.  Meh.

[eel2178]

19 hours ago, basiltherat said:

Well, do you think SENIOR could keep a secret?!

That depends on if he's been drinking.

[LuvMyShows]

On 2/12/2019 at 10:33 PM, enoughcats said:

Regardless of the questionable competence of NCIS HQ, do not tell me that Mossad's Director's daughter would have a secret office in DC without it being known about.  No way.  No how.  Not in a million years.  

Yeah, ever since the show aired, this is the plot idiocy that has really bothered me.  And with that many journals filled with that much writing, she was obviously there a lot, and given how busy she was at work, she must have been there during insanely obvious/weird hours.