S01.E14: Upgrade

[ottoDbusdriver]

Episode Description:

When Saanvi goes missing, Ben suspects a fanatical group who have become obsessed with the passengers from Flight 828. Michaela must face the consequences of her reunion with Jared. Zeke returns to New York and has an ominous calling.

[Frost]

I'm so glad Michaela defended herself when Lourdes confronted her on the street.  Not defending sleeping with Jared, but not letting Lourdes put 100% of the responsibility on her shoulders.  You should be talking to your husband, Lourdes!

Poor Saanji!  Who was the 828 guy who set up the church?  Was he the one pretending to be the flight attendant?  It's one thing to maybe promote the idea that 828 was the result of divine intervention, but he's gone full bore into L Ron Hubbard territory with prayers and saints and miracles and a social media presence.  I did not feel on bit sorry for the crazy woman who kidnapped Saanji and ordered her miracle.   Real love doesn't make someone act like that.  She wasn't desperate, she was unhinged.

Olive kind of redeemed herself this episode.  I liked her interactions with Ben.  I didn't get Gemini from the petroglyphs though.  Romulus and Remus were two brothers, not a brother and sister set of twins.

I was confused by the Major's flunkie being surprised on "finding" Ben at the church.  Don't they know where he lives?  It's not like he didn't return, more or less, to his previous life.  Same name, same wife, same kids, etc.  Even the few days he was rooming with Michaela he seemed to be at the house almost every day.  Their big, bad, intelligence operation doesn't seem so competent.

I was thinking Vance would be found alive in the van.  But the live 'wolf' was another fun twist in the mystery.  Hopefully the stupid romance stuff is being weeded out of the storylines as the mystery builds.

[Carmel Cub]

When Saanvi was back in her  office at the end, I kept expecting for the telephone to ring with a call advising her that the guy with cancer had been cured.  

[CCTC]

13 minutes ago, Frost said:

I'm so glad Michaela defended herself when Lourdes confronted her on the street.  Not defending sleeping with Jared, but not letting Lourdes put 100% of the responsibility on her shoulders.  You should be talking to your husband, Lourdes!

Yes - Jared really comes across as an insensitive pig.  Not only cheating on his wife, but not really reading Michaela or what she needs -- she was clearly out of sorts when he approached her leading to them sleeping together (not that it lets her off the hook - but was clearly more interested in sleeping with her than doing what was best for her at that moment), and he was not exactly doing a good job of reading her at the end.    Plus, him blaming Mick for his wife finding out was not exactly cool.  It is too bad they did not give Lourdes a little more screen time, it might have added a bit more tension and drama and given the betrayal more weight.   They seemed to have dropped Danny - instead of doing two triangles they could have spent a little more time on making Lourdes more of a presence and just had one triangle with a bit more of an edge.   Ben/Grace/Olive/Cal could have had enough drama getting to know each other again and eventually working together without the Danny element.  

25 minutes ago, Frost said:

I did not feel on bit sorry for the crazy woman who kidnapped Saanji and ordered her miracle.

I did feel sorry for her husband.   He looked pretty torn up  as he knew his wife was about to be arrested as he played along with Ben.   Not to mention - the whole cancer thing...

 

30 minutes ago, Frost said:

Hopefully the stupid romance stuff is being weeded out of the storylines as the mystery builds.

It does seem as they head to the finale the mystery  is overtaking "All My Triangles".  I am actually curious to see how this all plays out the next couple of episodes.

I did think it was interesting a passenger was the one who created the 828 Church -- possibly with ulterior motives to scam people or possibly really believing he is some sort of prophet or a combination of both.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Wow !! Did Zeke's wolf in the hallway look fake.  Like really, really bad.

Michaela -- worst ...... poker face ...... ever !!!  When Lourdes confronted her.

Michaela: "It was one month ago in my time" 
Which means we are still in December 2018.

Jared/Lourdes street address is 3528, add the 3 and 5 together and you get (3+5)28 or 828.

Smell ya later Lourdes.

Were we supposed to recognize that van in the river ?  And why was there a live body in the driver's seat ?

There are only 2 episodes left in S1, I wish they would get past the love triangles and the ham-handed hostage attempts (Alice was so bad at that), and make some progress finding out why the plane disappeared.

Now Cal is sharing Zeke's callings.  Whatever.

I was so bored with this episode.

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Wow !! Did Zeke's wolf in the hallway look fake.  Like really, really bad.

Hedgehog, if you ask me.

Or maybe a badger.

Edited February 5, 2019 by shapeshifter

[Camera One]

This episode was uneven, and some parts just felt really pointless and didn't exactly capture my interest.  The episode title should have been "Downgrade".

How was the guy in the van a wolf?  I zoned out when they were talking about doing duty at the wharf.  This seems like another filler diversion.  Zeke seemed so important last week and now he's watching Grace pour coffee weirdly and thinking the meal she gave him was actually a "home cooked meal".  

I did like Olive being brought into the mystery.

I like Saanvi but they throw in hints about her backstory so awkwardly.  I felt badly for that cancer patient and it must have been hard to allow his wife to be arrested.  

Last week, the hate group was a threat, and this week, it's ignored and now it's all about the psycho Church of the Returnees.  

The big bad Major's cryptic conversation with her lackey makes no sense.  She wants to see what Ben does next?  Who cares what he does?  So she's going to find a way to weaponize Cal?  How would that work?  Good luck getting him to cooperate with anything.  

I want to like Jared but he's such a jerk.  He keeps sleeping with Loudres instead of telling her the truth, and somehow implies that he wanted to tell the truth but Michaela didn't want to?  I can't say I sympathesize too much with Loudres either.  They set up a soap opera situation but the reveal was anti-climatic.  I was fully expecting a scene where Jared knocks on Michaela's door and Zeke answers it in a towel.  

Edited February 5, 2019 by Camera One

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, Camera One said:

This episode was uneven, and some parts just felt really pointless and didn't exactly capture my interest.  The episode title should have been "Downgrade".

Yes. The episode was a downgrade to steerage.

 

3 hours ago, Camera One said:

The big bad Major's . . . going to find a way to weaponize Cal?  How would that work?  Good luck getting him to cooperate with anything

Hee! So true. No wonder she's in no hurry to pick him up. 

 

3 hours ago, Camera One said:

I want to like Jared but he's such a jerk.  He keeps sleeping with Loudres instead of telling her the truth, and somehow implies that he wanted to tell the truth but Michaela didn't want to?  I can't say I sympathesize too much with Loudres either.  They set up a soap opera situation but the reveal was anti-climatic.  I was fully expecting a scene where Jared knocks on Michaela's door and Zeke answers it in a towel.  

--which would've been doubly ironic because Zeke and Jared look like they could be twins.

[Biggie B]

5 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Smell ya later Lourdes.

I still think she's going to turn up pregnant. And perhaps Michaela as well!! 

5 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Wow !! Did Zeke's wolf in the hallway look fake.  Like really, really bad.

They should've borrowed the hallucinatory wolf from 'New Amsterdam.' It was a tiny bit more life-like.

[Angeleyes]

The writers seem to be throwing things at the wall to see what sticks instead of having an overall plot that they plan to resolve anytime soon. At this point, I wouldn’t be surprised if season 1 ended on a cliffhanger with 50 more groups that pose a danger to the 828 passengers. 

I’m over Cal and his mantra of “if I draw it, it will happen”. Dude, it’s probably going to happen anyway. Your role is to give your family a heads up. It would help if you didn’t run away or clam up in the process. 

Jared is such a waffler. I get the reason for his conflict, but maybe he needs to get some therapy and make a decision instead of leading both of these women on. They are best friends, but they aren’t down for a sister wife situation. 

[Clanstarling]

9 hours ago, Frost said:

Poor Saanji!  Who was the 828 guy who set up the church?  Was he the one pretending to be the flight attendant?  It's one thing to maybe promote the idea that 828 was the result of divine intervention, but he's gone full bore into L Ron Hubbard territory with prayers and saints and miracles and a social media presence.

He was some kind of young turk entrepreneur - and came back to no longer being the flavor of the month. So he started scamming in a different way.

6 hours ago, Camera One said:

I want to like Jared but he's such a jerk.  He keeps sleeping with Loudres instead of telling her the truth, and somehow implies that he wanted to tell the truth but Michaela didn't want to?  I can't say I sympathesize too much with Loudres either.  They set up a soap opera situation but the reveal was anti-climatic.  I was fully expecting a scene where Jared knocks on Michaela's door and Zeke answers it in a towel.  

I am not fond of Jared in general, and this episode specifically. But my take on the bedroom scene is that he hasn't been sleeping with Lourdes (at least since sleeping with Michaela), because they mentioned his recovery from taking a bullet for her as a reason for him not being in the mood.

10 hours ago, Frost said:

I was thinking Vance would be found alive in the van.  But the live 'wolf' was another fun twist in the mystery. 

My initial take is - nope. I don't draw the line at back from the dead - but back from the dead as a raving, what, zombie/wolf. Nope. Not for me, though who knows, they may be able to sell it.

1 minute ago, icemiser69 said:

Jared is an epic asshole.  I hope he ends up alone.  Lourdes deserved better than Jared.  And Michaela isn't much of a friend either. 

She isn't, but at least she has the excuse that it's only been a month in her time. And even so, she has more honor than Jared, who had plenty of time to deal with it, and jumped right in with both feet from the get go.

[shapeshifter]

53 minutes ago, Angeleyes said:

I’m over Cal and his mantra of “if I draw it, it will happen”. Dude, it’s probably going to happen anyway. Your role is to give your family a heads up.

I think Cal gets it now—thanks to the useful Uncle Zeke—which we had to see because there's nothing to be concerned about WRT a scruffy loner who hasn't spoken to his parents in the years since he caused his little sister's death through neglect.

 

53 minutes ago, Angeleyes said:

Jared is such a waffler. I get the reason for his conflict, but maybe he needs to get some therapy and make a decision instead of leading both of these women on. They are best friends, but they aren’t down for a sister wife situation. 

At this point, the only redemption for the character of Jared seems to be a heroic death—maybe he will fail in an attempt to rescue Lourdes from wolfman. Or maybe they can blame it all on Jared's evil twin.

 

10 hours ago, Frost said:

I was thinking Vance would be found alive in the van.  But the live 'wolf' was another fun twist in the mystery.  Hopefully the stupid romance stuff is being weeded out of the storylines as the mystery builds

Please, please, let wolfman really be Vance. 
Actually, I thought he looked like the pilot but with facial hair.

[cathmed]

So Adrian, who I'd forgotten about, is exploiting/misleading people and making a buck as well.   Who couldn't tell Alice was unstable the moment she walked in to the dr.'s office (and after attending the Church of the Returned?)   The way Mic disarmed her was almost funny - it looked really awkward but guess she got the job done..

I've grown tired of this focus on Call as well; now he's the Holy Grail?  Oh puh-leeze!    It seemed odd that Mic would have stayed with Zeke for several days in the cabin (can they really trust him; did he really have an experience) and then to invite him into Ben's house with Cal's suspicions/sense of danger?   Grace seemed happier at the table with Cal and Zeke than she did with her own husband.  And speaking of awkward - right before Ben left to find Alice, I thought maybe they were going to kiss (after she said "be careful").  They just looked at each other--and not longingly, lol!

Mic/Jason/Lourdes - anyone really surprised here?  And why does the aggrieved spouse typically confront the cheatee and not the cheater?  Lourdes was just as weak-willed not to confront Jason.  Mic and Jason need therapy and of course, it won't be entirely smooth sailing for Mic/Jason but they'll eventually get back together after the perfunctory protracted drama.

I still don't care for the majority of these wooden, stiff-acting characters (or the actors portraying them) which makes it a struggle, at times, for me to watch and engage in the show.   I realize you have to suspend belief when watching some TV programs but this is ridiculous.  Additionally, guess I'm not really a supernatural fan and this show has no continuity--showing recaps of previous episodes then picking up as if it happened last week.   A bit discombobulated as I forgot about Adrian but presume they had to think of something "different" this week.

[Aryanna]

They've been hinting about the empty seat on the plane next to Saanvi like it's another mystery that needs to be solved. If it turns out to be nothing more than a guy stood her up then that's weak.

[SimoneS]

I actually thought this was one of the stronger episode. Ben, Grace, Olive, and Cal working together as a team with no more secrets was really nice to see. They are actually an enjoyable family now. I am no longer annoyed with Grace and rooting for Ben to be with Saanji. Even if Grace still ends up with Danny I am cool with that because right now she is doing her best to protect her family and stand by Ben during this dangerous time.

Poor Saanji. She was put through the ringer by that unstable woman. Ben was brave going in there and cheered when the cops showed up. Too often characters do crap like that without any back up. 

I really buy people looking at the 828 passengers as either religious miracles or part of an evil conspiracy. The show has hit the right note showing the extremes. And that passengers is definitely scamming his followers, not a surprise.

I am enjoying the Jared/Michaela/Lourdes drama. While Jared didn't have the courage to tell Lourdes the truth, at least he wasn't having sex with her. Lourdes should have confronted Jared about her suspicions not Michaela. Regardless, this is all for the best that Lourdes is gone. I just hope that she doesn't show back up pregnant. I rather Jared get involved in solving the mystery. I liked how he covered for them this last week. 

The only reason that I continue to watch is that I have no expectations that the mystery will ever be solved or make any sense, much like Lost. I have accepted the writers are just making it up as they go along. 

Edited February 5, 2019 by SimoneS

[basiltherat]

I think the driver "wolfman" was supposed to mean a wolf in sheep's clothing (someone mentioned that analogy) as in don't trust the undead driver.

Have we seen the religion guy before?  I guess I'm getting bored with Show enough not to pay attention.  He was sure raking in the dough!

"Upgrade' may refer to Michaela's trading in Jared for Zeke!

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Aryanna said:

They've been hinting about the empty seat on the plane next to Saanvi like it's another mystery that needs to be solved. If it turns out to be nothing more than a guy stood her up then that's weak.

Zeke = Empty Seat Guy?

[cdnalor]

11 hours ago, CCTC said:

"All My Triangles"

Love this!

[AV8n]

Saanvi keeps referring to her would-be companion in gender neutral terms, which makes me think we will find out she was involved with a woman. The writers seem to be going in the direction of keeping Grace and Ben together. I doubt we’ll see Danny again unless they need to borrow his truck.

I’m also not so sure that Mic and Jared will end up together. My guess is she ends up with Zeke and Jared ends up dying.

Definitely got the impression that LaRon Hubbard wasn’t a true believer, since he told Ben that what matters was that the people (passing the offering plates) believed.

[green]

13 hours ago, Camera One said:

This episode was uneven, and some parts just felt really pointless and didn't exactly capture my interest.  The episode title should have been "Downgrade".    ...

The big bad Major's cryptic conversation with her lackey makes no sense.  She wants to see what Ben does next?  Who cares what he does?

I sure don't care what he does.  And that is a much better name for the episode. 

 

6 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I think Cal gets it now—thanks to the useful Uncle Zeke—which we had to see because there's nothing to be concerned about WRT a scruffy loner who hasn't spoken to his parents in the years since he caused his little sister's death through neglect.

And yet he got through to Cal far better and eased Cal's fears about his misguided understanding of his "power" more than Ben ever did.  Because Ben was too busy being Superhero to treat his son as a fellow member of the human race and more an object to be protected only because Cal was HIS son.  Meanwhile Zeke just empathized with Cal and treated him as a human being with his own needs.

 

5 hours ago, basiltherat said:

Have we seen the religion guy before?  I guess I'm getting bored with Show enough not to pay attention.  He was sure raking in the dough!

Yeah someone explained above.  I kept thinking it was his father or adopted father and not him that was on the flight though because wasn't this the kid who worked in the jewelry store and got falsely accused of being a thief they helped out during a "calling of the week" episode?

 

2 hours ago, AV8n said:

Definitely got the impression that LaRon Hubbard wasn’t a true believer, since he told Ben that what matters was that the people (passing the offering plates) believed.

Which makes him a true L Ron Hubbard then at least.

Edited February 5, 2019 by green

[crgirl412]

The Church of the Returned is so creepy.  In a sad way, Adrian is in far better shape than the parishioners because he doesn't actually believe that BS, he's just a money-hungry charlatan.  He goes to jail, he's not able to get to their money any longer, he won't be able to "preach" so there won't be services so it will fizzle eventually.  Hopefully.  Those people will poor and brainwashed.  They will need to be deprogrammed and may never be the same.  Also, if it goes the "suppressed person" route like Scientology, they can lose their entire family.  Btw, watch Leah Remini's show on the experiences of people who got out of Scientology.  They are poor and had been brainwashed.  

I feel bad for Lourdes/Jared/Mck.  What do you do when the love of your life returns from the "dead" and she/he is married to your best friend?  Obviously, don't sleep together.  Even that hadn't happened, what is the right thing to do?  I am a huge proponent of marriage and always go with keeping the marriage together route on tv and in movies.  I don't with this one.  Doesn't Lourdes deserve to be with someone where she is their #1?  Their are no children involved.  McK and Jared are still in love but right now she's going with her head and being pragmatic and he's going with his heart so nothings happens until Mck goes with her heart.  Oh, and Lourdes has filed for divorce. 

[ottoDbusdriver]

9 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

How long do the writers expect the audience to stick around for a show that keeps having mysteries without any real answers?

See 'The Blacklist' forums

[Clanstarling]

9 hours ago, cathmed said:

Mic/Jason/Lourdes - anyone really surprised here?  And why does the aggrieved spouse typically confront the cheatee and not the cheater?  Lourdes was just as weak-willed not to confront Jason.  Mic and Jason need therapy and of course, it won't be entirely smooth sailing for Mic/Jason but they'll eventually get back together after the perfunctory protracted drama.

I think it worked, at least in theory. Mic and Lourdes were supposed to be best friends and had known each other a very long time (I think), so in many ways, Lourdes might feel closer to Mic, and feel more betrayed by her. It seems like she was never quite sure about the strength of Jason's love, but that wasn't true when it came to Mic. In that case, at least at first, she kind of felt like the cheater. BUT, I can intellectualize all of that, and the dilemma would look good in print, but I sure don't feel any of it. They're all just annoying.

6 hours ago, AV8n said:

Saanvi keeps referring to her would-be companion in gender neutral terms, which makes me think we will find out she was involved with a woman. The writers seem to be going in the direction of keeping Grace and Ben together. I doubt we’ll see Danny again unless they need to borrow his truck.

Given that she said it was complicated, it made me wonder if she's a cheater too. But good point about the gender neutral.

14 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

See 'The Blacklist' forums

Lasted about 1.5 seasons. Loved Spader and a good number of the cast - except for the lead (who for me was an actress in the Michaela school of acting), and hated the continual bait and switch.

[Camera One]

10 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Zeke = Empty Seat Guy?

 

11 hours ago, Aryanna said:

They've been hinting about the empty seat on the plane next to Saanvi like it's another mystery that needs to be solved. If it turns out to be nothing more than a guy stood her up then that's weak.

Yeah, they've been building it up as if it will be a big thing.  So Zeke makes sense.  The only other characters who have been around which would be "shocking" might be The Major or The Major's lackey (though does he even have a name?).  

11 hours ago, SimoneS said:

The only reason that I continue to watch is that I have no expectations that the mystery will ever be solved or make any sense, much like Lost. I have accepted the writers are just making it up as they go along. 

 

I also have no expectations.  Though unlike "Lost", the "Manifest" Writers are claiming this early on that they have a five-year-plan and 

Spoiler

we won't find out what happened to the plane until the series finale after five years.  At least with "Lost", they didn't promise such specific pre-planning.  Damon Lindelof didn't even think the show would get a full season order in Season 1.

Edited February 6, 2019 by Camera One

[DoItToIt]

13 hours ago, Angeleyes said:

The writers seem to be throwing things at the wall to see what sticks instead of having an overall plot that they plan to resolve anytime soon. At this point, I wouldn’t be surprised if season 1 ended on a cliffhanger with 50 more groups that pose a danger to the 828 passengers.

Quote

At this point, I get the feeling that the writers are throwing shit against the wall.  This series doesn't feel like it has been planned out at all.  Almost as if they expected it to be cancelled before they would have to answer any questions.

Absolutely, all of this. Meanwhile, several of you tried to warn us not to get our hopes up smh. You were right.

Edited February 6, 2019 by DoItToIt
Added quote

[Dowel Jones]

I would laugh if they opened up the rear door of that van and a pile of money and bullion fell out.  And if they gave Dick Wolf a cameo.

Did Mic and Zeke go directly from the wilderness to her apartment?  I'm thinking that, in real life at least, there would be a bit of an issue of body odor and ratty clothes by this time.  Get thee to the shower, Mystery Man!

So the Major wants to weaponize Cal.  That's what the national security apparatus really needs: a pouty little boy that shows promise as a surrealist painter and wanders off at the slightest provocation. Enemies beware!

More conspiracy clues!  Lourdes and Jared live at 3528 Whatever Street.  3+5=8;   8 & 28=828.

ETA:  After rewatching the scene where Jared and Mic are assigned to watch the van brought up from the river, it turns out that it was the getaway car from a $75 million dollar heist.  Hmmm.

Edited February 6, 2019 by Dowel Jones

[ams1001]

9 hours ago, AV8n said:

Definitely got the impression that LaRon Hubbard wasn’t a true believer, since he told Ben that what matters was that the people (passing the offering plates) believed.

Yeah, he was rather eagerly following that collection plate along the rows.

[Camera One]

1 hour ago, Dowel Jones said:

ETA:  After rewatching the scene where Jared and Mic are assigned to watch the van brought up from the river, it turns out that it was the getaway car from a $75 million dollar heist.  Hmmm.

 

So that means Cal did draw the future again when he drew all that money?

Cal's sketchbook and the "callings" are basically vehicles to do sharp turns into new filler territory every couple of episodes.  When they need a new plot, Cal draws something random aka the new "mystery".  Now we will get two episodes unravelling the mystery that viewers didn't even know about until the last 30 seconds of this episode - Wolfman. 

Do they seriously think they can string us along like this for 5 seasons?  In two episodes, Cal will draw a picture of a bull with light coming out of its horns, and Olive will realize it represents the constellation Taurus, ultimately referring to a cow-farmer who was romantically linked with Saanvi who had promised to go with her to Jamaica but changed his mind when his farm was hit with a dark lightning storm the day of the flight which created two giant crop circles in figure eights (two eights?  828?  coincidence?) and the farm is operating under a shadow umbrella group called Ursa Major (!).

Edited February 6, 2019 by Camera One

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

Did Mic and Zeke go directly from the wilderness to her apartment?  I'm thinking that, in real life at least, there would be a bit of an issue of body odor and ratty clothes by this time.  Get thee to the shower, Mystery Man!

The day all TVs are required to go smell-o-vision, I'm out of here. 

 

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

In two episodes, Cal will draw a picture of a bull with light coming out of its horns, and Olive will realize it represents the constellation Taurus, ultimately referring to a cow-farmer who was romantically linked with Saanvi who had promised to go with her to Jamaica but changed his mind when his farm was hit with a dark lightning storm the day of the flight which created two giant crop circles in figure eights (two eights?  828?  coincidence?)

@Camera One, surely you must either be a writer for Manifest, or a fly on their wall.

[green]

22 hours ago, Camera One said:

Writers are claiming this early on that they have a five-year-plan

 

Well we were told the Cylons had a plan too until we found out they (aka showrunner Ronald Moore) really didn't.

Five years?  Really? 

Watched Project Blue Book tonight and only 5 episodes in we already have a major reveal and a 1950's gov't conspiracy / aliens etc show has such a nicer period look to it too.  The show is based on incidents from the real Project Blue Book and the major scientist involved in same but the stories the writers make up "inspired" by them are then 100% fictional so not following any facts.  So we already have a sketchy Air Force General, a creepy Werner Von Braun and a Russian female spy all running around and NO love triangles!!  In fact the Russian spy was busy becoming the best friend of the scientist's wife and not trying to seduce him, what a relief.  Nice popcorn show so far.

Meanwhile Camera One needs to be hired as a writer asap on this show!

Edited February 7, 2019 by green

[fauntleroy]

Random angry guy from last week vs Church of the Returned nutters this week like Life of Brian where a new religion sprang up based on Brian's dropped shoe, whose followers broke away from more traditional (ie an hour older) followers of the 'Holy Gourd of Jerusalem'.

Am positive Michaela got her eyebrows trimmed. Nice! Though prob not as warm.

When she knocked on the door to talk to Lourdes and no answer, and she walked away, who was surprised that finally somebody answered the door! Such a long leisurely use of episode time just to introduce an unnecessary (for us to witness) conversation.

Crack team determines Ben's location. Good work! Major narrowing her eyes when 'America's enemies' and 'weaponize'. Love the subtlety. Though if you're going to weaponize a child with a not-yet-understood superpower, not sure it matters what his father 'does next'. And what happened to all those evil lab people?

Ret-conned Grace is now simply uninteresting as opposed to hateable. Olive has something to do, google images!

Agree with consensus that the writers are winging it and it will all come to nothing. Am shocked, shocked that long-term vision is not happening at this establishment.

[Clanstarling]

11 hours ago, Camera One said:

 

Yeah, they've been building it up as if it will be a big thing.  So Zeke makes sense.  The only other characters who have been around which would be "shocking" might be The Major or The Major's lackey (though does he even have a name?).  

I also have no expectations.  Though unlike "Lost", the "Manifest" Writers are claiming this early on that they have a five-year-plan and 

  Reveal hidden contents

we won't find out what happened to the plane until the series finale after five years.  At least with "Lost", they didn't promise such specific pre-planning.  Damon Lindelof didn't even think the show would get a full season order in Season 1.

They may have JMS (J. Michael Straczynski - Babylon 5) ambitions, but they don't have the chops.

10 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

ETA:  After rewatching the scene where Jared and Mic are assigned to watch the van brought up from the river, it turns out that it was the getaway car from a $75 million dollar heist.  Hmmm.

I thought of those piles of money in Cal's drawing too. So, he doesn't actually have to have a calling, he just makes stuff up and it happens. Calling Twilight Zone, once Cal isn't afraid of his powers.

[Dowel Jones]

10 hours ago, Camera One said:

Do they seriously think they can string us along like this for 5 seasons?

The pilot is going to come back from the future and tell everyone "Sorry, everyone, this really sucks, I know, but you got cancelled after one season.  Oh, and put your money in Uber stocks."

[Catmeister]

Does anyone else feel it's odd that the love triangles are no longer?  Seems like a lot of build up for them to fizzle out. Danny disappeared and Lourdes left without a fight?  Too easy.   I'm sure Michaela will realize she's pregnant soon, but will keep it from him.  Maybe their baby will end up being the real Holy Grail and not Cal?    

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Catmeister said:

 I'm sure Michaela will realize she's pregnant soon, but will keep it from him.  Maybe their baby will end up being the real Holy Grail and not Cal?    

Even worse would be a rapidly aging "star child" that is a teen next season. 

[TVForever]

23 hours ago, green said:

And yet he got through to Cal far better and eased Cal's fears about his misguided understanding of his "power" more than Ben ever did.  Because Ben was too busy being Superhero to treat his son as a fellow member of the human race and more an object to be protected only because Cal was HIS son.  Meanwhile Zeke just empathized with Cal and treated him as a human being with his own needs.

I came away from that scene with Zeke and Cal with the exact same observation. Ben is obviously supposed to be the hero of the show, but he is increasingly becoming my least favorite character. I actually think of Zeke as the “anti-Ben”, and I mean it as a compliment.

[Mr. Sparkle]

1 hour ago, Catmeister said:

I'm sure Michaela will realize she's pregnant soon, but will keep it from him.  Maybe their baby will end up being the real Holy Grail and not Cal?    

Oh yeah, any kid born to a major character on this show will be completely magical, no doubt. 

[fauntleroy]

Forgot to mention Grace's remark that Olive is just like her dad! Upon Olive google image searching and finding Gemini. Indeed who but the child of a math professor would come up w such an inspired discovery! Young genius that one.

Edited February 6, 2019 by fauntleroy

[tennisgurl]

I admit, I am pretty happy to see the love triangle with Ben and Grace disappearing. I didnt actually hate Grace, which is an exciting new experience for me. I didnt particularly like her, but I didnt end up screaming at her from my couch, so thats a pretty good episode for Grace. 

Cal and his vague prophesies are probably my second least favorite part of the show, after the love triangles. Its all "its coming!" or "the darkness arrives!" or random crap like that. When does he tell us that "a storm is coming" or some other random bit of nonsense from his cliche generator? Which is too bad, because when Cal gets to act like a normal kid, or deal with being out of time or having a twin who is suddenly a teenager and years older than him, he works just fine as a character. But when he is just a waif prophet for everyone to fret about, not so much. 

Jared is being an asshole, and I wish that Mic and Lourdes would send him packing. He moved on from his almost fiance with her best friend, and then when she came back, started making eyes on, and cheated with, the aforementioned almost fiance. That being said, I was kinda on Mics side a bit in her confrontation with Lourdes. For her, she was ready to marry this guy a few weeks, ago, while her best friend is now married to him. And, as she mentioned, she didnt even come to see her when she arrived or tried to talk to her until a decent amount of time after. Mic hooking up with Jared isnt cool, but there is blame to go around. Jared gets the most though. Jerk. 

Poor Saanvi. She tried to hard to help that crazy lady, and got smacked and held hostage for her trouble. I didnt feel bad for crazy lady, but I did feel badly for her husband. Not only is he on deaths door, but now he is going to die without his wife, knowing she lost her mind over what happened to him. Saanvi is such a lovely person, I hope she gets some relief soon. 

That jump scare at the end was pretty good, but that wolf...that looked BAD.

[Clanstarling]

3 hours ago, TVForever said:

I came away from that scene with Zeke and Cal with the exact same observation. Ben is obviously supposed to be the hero of the show, but he is increasingly becoming my least favorite character. I actually think of Zeke as the “anti-Ben”, and I mean it as a compliment.

I am getting tired of Ben charging into situations he's not trained for, armed only with self-righteous belief that he can do it all. Kind of opposite most people who spend a lot of time in research, imo. Leave it up to the pros, idiot.

26 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Poor Saanvi. She tried to hard to help that crazy lady, and got smacked and held hostage for her trouble. I didnt feel bad for crazy lady, but I did feel badly for her husband. Not only is he on deaths door, but now he is going to die without his wife, knowing she lost her mind over what happened to him. Saanvi is such a lovely person, I hope she gets some relief soon.

I felt so sorry that she apparently had no one to get any comfort from after it was over. Crying in her office by herself. That was one of the few moments that really touched me on this show.

I hate cryptic shit from anyone. Use your damned words. If you can draw it, you can say it.

[tennisgurl]

1 hour ago, Clanstarling said:

I hate cryptic shit from anyone. Use your damned words. If you can draw it, you can say it.

I say that every damn time some prophet or whatever has to get all cryptic and vague for no freaking reason at all. "You must go to where the dark night meets the early moon an the red mounts the orange star..." motherfucker, just give me an address I can plug into my GPS! Time is probably of the fucking essence! 

[krankydoodle]

55 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

I felt so sorry that she apparently had no one to get any comfort from after it was over. Crying in her office by herself. That was one of the few moments that really touched me on this show.

I guess the writers have abandoned the possibility of a relationship between Ben and Saanvi (if that was ever even the plan) because a scene with the two of them after the hostage situation would've been a good time to lay the groundwork for that. But even if they're not going in that direction, I thought it was weird how there was no mention of how Ben risked his life to save Saanvi.

[green]

8 minutes ago, krankydoodle said:

I guess the writers have abandoned the possibility of a relationship between Ben and Saanvi (if that was ever even the plan) because a scene with the two of them after the hostage situation would've been a good time to lay the groundwork for that. But even if they're not going in that direction, I thought it was weird how there was no mention of how Ben risked his life to save Saanvi.

It was more Ben risked Saanvi's and Mic's lives rushing in unprepared and without back-up.  Again, what an unlikable, self-righteous know-it-all twit he is.

[jay741982]

9 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Even worse would be a rapidly aging "star child" that is a teen next season. 

LOL you saw the V TV series! I own it, The Two Mini series Movies and the first season of the Remake of The original Series 

[shapeshifter]

5 minutes ago, jay741982 said:

9 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Even worse would be a rapidly aging "star child" that is a teen next season. 

LOL you saw the V TV series! I own it, The Two Mini series Movies and the first season of the Remake of The original Series

Hey, at least they all had a few likable main characters.

Edited February 7, 2019 by shapeshifter

[Dowel Jones]

8 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

crying in her office by herself.

Speaking of her office, did the door get cleaned off?  It would attract loads of attention otherwise.

[Clanstarling]

9 hours ago, jay741982 said:

LOL you saw the V TV series! I own it, The Two Mini series Movies and the first season of the Remake of The original Series 

And the 4400, which I loved, but hated the child going from infant to sultry temptress in a short time - it was pretty icky, imo. I mean, a few month previous she was still eating soft foods. It did not work for me at all.

6 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

Speaking of her office, did the door get cleaned off?  It would attract loads of attention otherwise.

I wondered that too, and thought that maybe...just maybe...there should have been a little more security in place given that she'd already been the victim of a hate crime.

Edited February 7, 2019 by Clanstarling

[Orillia]

13 hours ago, green said:

It was more Ben risked Saanvi's and Mic's lives rushing in unprepared and without back-up.  Again, what an unlikable, self-righteous know-it-all twit he is.

But you have to give Ben some credit for his unbelievable detective work on solving the case of the missing Saanvi . I mean matching the printing on a pamphlet with the cards on the board was a fine piece of work . And all within a span of about 5 minutes .

With skills like that , it can only be a matter of time before he solves the mystery of the missing plane.

[green]

On 2/7/2019 at 9:03 AM, Orillia said:

But you have to give Ben some credit for his unbelievable detective work on solving the case of the missing Saanvi . I mean matching the printing on a pamphlet with the cards on the board was a fine piece of work . And all within a span of about 5 minutes .

With skills like that , it can only be a matter of time before he solves the mystery of the missing plane.

Or becomes a detective and takes over his sister's job.  Then he can learn to draw and take over his son's job.  Or learn mythic symbols and take over his daughter's job.  Or become a doctor and take over Saanvi's job.  There is nothing SuperBen can't do better than people who actually do these jobs.

Edited February 9, 2019 by green

[krankydoodle]

On 2/6/2019 at 7:32 PM, green said:

It was more Ben risked Saanvi's and Mic's lives rushing in unprepared and without back-up.  Again, what an unlikable, self-righteous know-it-all twit he is.

That's fair.

I wonder how much the order of an additional 3 episodes in October shook up the storylines.